Intro - Uncollapsible Paraglider Part 1 - BANDARRA

[@flyshacker]

First time I have ever seen that explained, and I have watched hundreds of paragliding vids. Thank you!!

[@kamleshjethwa4151]

I really loved the way you explained about the risers and to the details of A, B , C and brake , just awesome . I think this model that you made is perfect for any beginner to understand the aerodynamics of the para-glider. looking forward for more great videos from you. I Subscribed.

[@CoIoneIPanic]

honestly , this is low key genius. Paragliding as a sport is so new that there is room for innovation that comes from "informal" sources like this guy (who is clearly high on the mensa curve). I havent even watched the following episodes yet but i like where this is going. I, for one, would buy a paraglider that has on/off collapsibility to vary between XC gliding and thermal work.

[@pedropaulosantos1771]

Your explanation is a high tech and clear one. Congratulations, Teacher Andre!!!

[@yosoylibre]

Big ideas! Several years ago I also proposed to various enthusiasts a wing without air intake along the wing but inflated with helium and now I even think inflated with air. Of course, the wing material must be adjusted so that the gas does not escape. And if it were inflated with air, an air pump located in the pilot's place and a light elastic plastic tube could be added that feeds the entire wing as it loses pressure.

[@TheGrundigg]

So basically a kite surfing wing?

[@chucklist3074]

I love the passion you are applying to all of your work. Fantastic. I started paragliding in the early 90's and while in meteorology class our instructor asked us why our instruments don't sense temperature, in a forward-looking sense, and thus be thermal detectors. Fast forward now nearly 30 years and a career in aviation and I wonder why we still haven't done something like this. (We have EVAS in our planes and it helps immensely in seeing through visible moisture but doesn't show shear.) In aviation, we talk about turbulence in terms of shear and it's force. This is the same principle that you are seeking here when looking to sense the imminent collapse, to sense when the shear potential will exceed the glider's ability to stay inflated. Despite all the very cool applications you suggest in this video I just wonder why not try to "see" the air you are flying within rather than sense the mallions? This becomes a thermal detector and progresses into a shear detector too.

[@AndreBandarra1]

Thanks Chuck, very nice comments and thoughts I haven't considered. I didn't think about it much when I made this video, was more of a pie in the sky idea or brain dump. Even though I've dreamed about "seeing thermals" I don't know much about the tech involved so I went on a route that has some connection to my mechanical engineering experince

[@chucklist3074]

That makes sense you would go that route for sure with your background. I think thermal sensing would have to happen at some very different wavelength, maybe infrared, maybe ultraviolet, or maybe it's the gradient that would the real answer. How would see it i have no idea, I just fly these things ;)

[@ruterovenezuela]

Hi Andre. Just as an insight to your research . Here is a tip to avoid collapses. Just like the ABS Sensors in a car or motorcycle. You can put a very small sensor at the risers and a smaller at the brake lines close to the collapse reaching length (let's say at 65cms) once the two sensors meet there is an alarm to alert you the collapse reaching point is there. This is just an idea I have to prevent collapses. Off course is a little different from yours but it might take your idea to a next level . Which I support.

[@thotavenkatramgupta2880]

Great work. Tension in the strings are measurable which can be useful for Auto piloting.

[@nikolayyotov5427]

In 7:20 you say that an experience pilot could sense a decrease of tension in his A-line. I think this is impossible and a pilot can sense only the total force going through the carabineer toward the harness. Don't forget that collapses happen for 2 main reasons with quite different processes - entering sink and self accelerations of the canopy (from too high AOA). Measuring the line tension is doable, but making mechanism for automated line pulls won't be easy; Reaction times are too small. Also, how would you separate automatic mechanism from pilot inputs? Collapse alarm might work, but you have to filter a lot of noise which can either produce too late for reaction alarms or annoying signals (like most of the variometers). For example, I'd like to hear alarm only about coming 100% collapses and don't want to be disturbed when pressure disturbance won't achieve a collapse. If you focus more on collapse alarm, then you should change the flashy name - Uncollapsible paraglider to something modest. Good luck!

[@markmcgoveran6811]

Firstly I love you very much I have been working on designs for a non collapsible or a quick recovery paraglider wing. If the mouth was a round tube that was very light and reached back to the a riser it would be very difficult for this to collapse from a sudden downdraft. Secondly you were on the trail when you spoke of the verio and helping the sensing part of the equation. What you need is a load cell on the a risers and some kind of a feedback loop that just sings the song One Note song. When the a risers are under a larger tension the frequency of the OneNote song is higher when the tension falls off the a risers the frequency of the OneNote song is lower. If each a riser had a separate sensor and the system was broken into two halves to compose the one note song for each side. You would have the speaker on the top of your shoulder attached to the harness by your ears. There is no servo out there worth its weight that can perform as you were describing. I watched you fly and I am very jealous of you. Nothing in the computer world light enough and dependable enough for flight could ever touch you as far as skills. If you just put a rubber oil ring in the mouth of each of the cells that was the right size to gently hold it open just hold the mouth open and stitch it in and for places just a single stitch one over ring and each cell it would probably make a lot of difference. Ignoring all that if you could get solid feedback from that Wing in the form of a speaker under each ear and the frequency shifting up and down when the load is the lowest the frequency drops. I estimate you would fly about a week with that and you would wonder how you ever managed to do without it.The very simplest thing I could suggest to try for this non collapsible flight. If you had a piece of a car inner tube attached to your a-risers that was thin enough it would only pull 10 lb.. attach the other end of the strap to your clothing somewhere so you have a constant feedback from the a risers to the shirt. I guarantee you there's a thousand percent difference in the time that you were talking about for each process with the perception the reaction the adjustments. And being on top of it. If you started out with the a risers speaker one on each shoulder and flew a while you could come up with another speaker for each of the lines to the parachute and eventually it would be singing like an angel to you and when the collapse even begin to initiate you instantly be on it. I would love to learn to fly something like that and I couldn't be on it like you can because of all your experience. If you just plug in a couple of speakers on the top of your harness to your muscle memory sensory system your feedback loop will shrink dramatically you will be on it when it starts to change not reacting to it after it gets too loose.

[@jorgevalenciaparapente]

Really a great initiative, your invitation to advance together and among all in the technology of paragliding. I wish a great apprenticeship for all lovers of paragliding, neophytes and ancient ones. When I started in the world of paragliding more than 20 years ago, it was this spirit of improvement and experimentation that most caught and excited me. Thank you for bringing that spirit back.

[@AndreBandarra1]

Muchas gracias Jorge! :)

[@benedictteo3689]

Hi Andre, Thank You for Your Great Work on Teaching on How to Fly more Safely! Bravo to You Bro!!!

[@kiteandpizza]

Hi André, I love your little wing-model! The distribution of weight is near >60% on the A-Lines and from the center of the wing to the outside. Thats why lines get longer on the A's and B's get shorter - while the same is true from inside to the stabilo. As with the new CC-Class (competition wings) we got mostly dynema break lines - which shrink! Thats why we all measure them very often. There will be a lot of computing taking place - so power consumption is something to think about. Not to forget those servos which will eat a lot of power also. I am looking forward to your next videos!

[@chadkline4268]

What if you just release all controls? Is that a safer bet during a collapse? What about extra intake ports to keep the wing inflated? Or what about strips of carbon fiber or fiberglass to prevent bends? Interesting topic.

[@md.jahidulislam4165]

The first time I ever understand why reading is important to do the work a better way!

[@wiley0714]

Three General points of concern: 1. Using any type of speed bar will deform your Leading Edge. Not deforming your Leading Edge would be a great way to prevent the collapse. 2. Wings: elliptical versus rectangular. A powered parachute uses a rectangular wing and it is stall resistant. I can do a full flare the nose will come up a little bit and then flatten out. If I did that with an elliptical paramotor wing I would cause a stall, and fall! 3. Trims: a true paraglider wing does not have any type of trims because is designed for maximum lift not speed. A paramotor wing in contrast allows you to have trims because your flight characteristics are more for going distance, not gaining height/lift to thermal soar. Just my two cents. If you wanted the most collapse resistant wing, you would fly with a rectangular wing with no trims.

[@AaronAJaeger]

I think it’s brilliant. Would be great for a beginner but for an experienced pilot using more heightened senses from experience it could be great to enable on demand recovery that you could turn on quickly before having to use the option of deploying your reserve.

[@SelfproclaimedDCSdebriefer]

Nice idea; let’s have a debate...is the wing inflated by ram-air, as you seem to think, or is it inflated by a reduction in pressure at the upper skin (2/3) over an increase in pressure below the wing (1/3)? Thereby is the wing effectively sucked open and only stabilised internally by the rather smaller effect of ram-air. Thoughts? I think that the RASP technology advertised by Swing paragliders which baffles the cells combined with this would be ideal. Good pilots will learn to recognise early signs of impending collapse by understanding the air mass acting on their wing at a given time and shifting weight, pitching and applying brake even bore the wing has begun to deform. There is no substitute for regular flying.

[@terrysullivan1992]

I believe there is a paraglider manufacturer that is developing a top skin only wing.

[@kevinshort3943]

James Hanson It's initially inflated by ram air pressure but once inflated and flying Bernoulli takes over. Sensors have been put in gliders and the pressure goes up at inflation, then reduces to the same/similar to the outside pressure. terry Sullivan Single skin gliders have existed for many, many years.

[@polychoron]

Good luck! Sounds badass. It could be programmed to do loops & stuff, so newbs can experience all the fancy moves before they learn the skills to do it themselves.

[@paul_smart]

Good ideas - I am a electronic design engineer and would be glad to help this project.

[@kennyindlu1086]

Hi Paul. Are you still interested to help develop an autonomous paraglider?

[@kennyindlu1086]

It could become a feasible bussiness with an autonomous powered trike. - Emergency evacuations - Remote payload delivery ( 2 to 400kg) - Endurance video/photography/surveillance/geotechnical - Fire fighting, crop dusting While drones do this, fabric wings can do this more cost-effectively with more endurance/distance.

[@paul_smart]

@@kennyindlu1086 Yes - it is a worthwhile project to which I can contribute.

[@kennyindlu1086]

@@paul_smart Awesome, would you email me on [e-mail] so we can start corresponding 😁

[@louismuckensturm4218]

@@kennyindlu1086 In case you want some backup, i'm a mechatronics engineer ( and prototype builder ) and I would be glad to contribute :)

[@tombullix7470]

Looks like a very interesting project - will be very interesting to see what happen and will come up next!

[@mounimstar]

Good Video thx for info. Just wondering is it not possible to create a para-wing with very thin carbon fibre lines, that can be fitted as frame , same as they do with tents but thinner carbon fibre to avoid wing collapsing !? Maybe more useful for paramotors than gliders

[@charlesabdouch3052]

Great concept and easily possible. First, you need force sensors on the lines. There are two ways to do this, one that a strain gauge is between the line and the carabiner. The second and perhaps safer method is to have a pressure sensor (very small chip) on the line where the line passed over the chip with a line guide on both the top and bottom. As the line pulls more weight and tries to straighten out, it applies more pressure to the chip. Obviously, as the weight gets less, there is a point where the line is not applying any force to the sensor. This would allow you to know exactly how much force or weight is being applied to each line. The data for this could be sent via Bluetooth to your smartphone to allow you to see the various forces on the wing under various conditions, such as launches, landings, climbs, wingovers, loops, spirals and other aerobatic maneuvers for stunt pilots to evaluate their performance. Warnings could be created when a line gets within 80% of its rated load. This product would have great value on its own and would be the first step required for a fully controlled wing, so would and could be developed on its own. At the carabiner, you would have a small battery powered microcontroller with the slots for the various lines in a plastic assembly that would connect through Bluetooth to your smartphone. Do this design separately and develop the app as you will need to do this anyway as part of the complete solution but you will have a first step you can sell. The app can even tell the pilot "STALL STALL STALL" or "COLLAPSE EMINENT" and let them learn how to sense it and recover on their own. I am not sure if the lines are identified for each of the A's, B's etc, but if not, then assume A1 is at the left wingtip and are numbered across to the right wingtip. Then as pilots are flying and doing stunts, they could get some feedback of their choosing, such as "A3 slack", "A8 overload", "Left side light" etc. Secondly, you would have to decide if you're only going to allow the computer to control very few or lots of lines. This is due to the force needed to alter the lines could require solenoids or motors that are bulky and heavy to have much impact and how to power these. How much deflection to the line that you require, will determine how much "throw" the motor will need. In one case, you could have a motor on every line and allow the computer to vary the formation of the wing not only to correct environment encounters such as you described but also for the computer to assist in aerobatics. Imagine doing loops and wingovers that go perfectly as the computer does minor adjustments to portions of the wing. On the minimum side, just allowing the computer to have one motor that pulls evenly on both brake lines might not be the best choice, but it would be the simplest and lightest solution. The safest solution for both sensing and controlling is that the lines remain connected directly to the carabiner like normal, but the lines are routed in a gap for the sensors and a pulley-like assembly for the motor. I think the ultimate test would be to have no pilot, but just batteries as the load and an electric paramotor with the computer flying to a certain altitude, then doing a variety of aerobatics and maneuvers, a robotic AI paramotor.

[@adamedgar5765]

I think that a simple solution to the sensing part is to consider wing internal pressure. Surely the pressure inside the wing will drop before it collapses? Another option is to look at airflow over/under the wing. In General Aviation stall warning devices are activated by at least two methods...one is suction, the other a change in airflow around the wing leading edge acting on a mechanical switch. From what i am seeing in this video regarding how a paraglider responds to airflow, it collapses when airflow comes down from above (which is virtually the complete opposite of a stall). That being the case, both scenarios could be detected using the same device.

[@mischatucker6088]

What about a way to seal your paraglider wing in flight so it maintains its shape after the wind has inflated it? What do you think about that?

[@peterfigueroa8807]

extremely good video and analysis. Although I agree with Kyle, I believe that the future development of "smart" wings is the future and the entry into the so-called no flying in the mid-afternoons. Think about it barometric pressure analysis prior to collapses and then to the other extreme, full recognition the thermic variances to assist is xc flights. Priceless... I think this has given me the basis for some research myself... Great stuff Andre! Please ping me...

[@AndreBandarra1]

Cool, glad it's getting your cogs turning Peter. I think for sure collapses are a different thing for freefliers and for ppg. I hope to start ppg at some point and because you have power there isn't much need to fly in thermic conditions for a number of reasons. The video is much more applied to my experience with is freeflight in thermic conditions

[@van123446]

how about creating sleeves and using curved carbon tubes to maintain top of wing shape during your proposed down force. Yes, might not fit in back pack, but certainly could be lightweight

[@kyleoglee]

Does anyone else monitor wing pressure with speedbar? I feel the leading edge through the bar, and prevent lots of collapses by making small corrections. It did take a few years of practice, but I can feel that leading edge pretty good these days. I like tech ideas though, and I often abort my own for the simplest solution to a problem. This might be good for newer guys, but they shouldn't be in knarly air anyways! I really liked your video though.

[@AndreBandarra1]

Hey dude, yeah there's lots of ways to do it and most seasoned pilots have found their own way to sense, compute and correct to avoid collapses. Like Gavin said you should never ever get a frontal if you're flying a hot wing. This for me is more about discovery and understanding how things work rather than designing a paraglider that physically won't collapse. We'll see where this road leads us :)

[@kyleoglee]

Andre Bandarra, there's always the old "hand of god" as well. That's what we call it around my woods. Flying your line, everything is humming along nicely, then WHACK! Ha ha. Happens to everyone eventually I think. I do like your idea, but I came from an airplane background where there is a gauge or instruments attached to everything. When I discovered the simplicity of paragliders, I fell overwhelmingly in love with it. Such a beautiful thing we get to enjoy! But with that feeling, anything that helps anyone do it better or safer I'm 100% behind brother!

[@AndreBandarra1]

Kyle O'Glee ahah I know exactly what you mean dude! That's how I had my first 80-90% collapse. At the end of my 2nd ever Xc, was at cloudbase and WHACK! What happened!? Luckily recovered just fine but what a rush! I'm with you on the simplicity though, sometimes I fly without instruments at all just to enjoy it. Really want to move somewhere where I can just go fly at the beach anytime, no instruments, light gear, barefoot :) and beers at the end 😎

[@tobycolombe5493]

These days the best way to "monitor" a wing on bar is by using rear-riser control.

[@ashishbhatt574]

Hey Andre, interesting. I would suggest to put a pressure sensor attached to A lines. So as soon as the nose starting deflating the pressure on A lines will reduce, the sensor will sense that and beep the alarm... I can go on and on about what after the sensor beeps, 2 options: human interfere with correction (Applying Breaks) or computer correction by adding 2 small electric motors controlling the breaks. So as soon as the sensor Senses the pressure drop on A linea it will alert the computer control motors to pull the breaks just to correct the nose ... Now there are 1000 ways to program how to control the wings by computer. I can see this happening very soon.

[@AndreBandarra1]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/g2jMdpljmZZoepo

[@Ohio-PPG-Trike-Adventures]

Thanks for the video, this helps me with my PPG as well... I've had some crazy winds and thermals. Clear Skies!

[@yaquot]

By describing this video as ''awesome'' is a little thing to say. Thank you.

[@icaroaccordi]

That is great! Once you have these input, tension in each mailon, would be a good idea to measure the pilot input break, acceleration and barometric data. Using some big data and machine learning you can get some correlation to create a library or application to be used by varios and cell phones. Good luck!

[@AndreBandarra1]

Yes I've been thinking about that, having tension sensors on the brakes too and accelerometer and baro data could be very beneficial to post flight analysis or to an all singing all dancing final autopilot that can fly the paraglider on its own

[@aethon6335]

Nice idea! I think the riser tension sensor with the alarm is golden, and should be your first, marketable step. Great explanation! You even left in the dreaded accidental penis drawing. I've been watching you for a while and your videos have gotten great! Perhaps someday you'll need an investor. Subscribed.

[@dgregd]

It is a great idea, especially for beginner pilots. BTW has anyone tried to use drones to make a 3d map of high rotor areas? I guess in the mountains, during same wind conditions, rotors should form in the same areas. Having a such 3d map on a smartphone, it could warn beginner pilots when they fly into a danger area.

[@hendsonyu5167]

About the correction step, shoud I give a short brake? or shoud I shake the brake? Thank you.

[@upa11dzzpl]

Wonderful explanation!!! Thanks a lot

[@chlocka]

Interesting idea dude! I look forward to watching your design journey.

[@spacewolf6023]

at 2:10 does this apply with single surface paragliders?

[@daleharrington5936]

can you have a servo react to presser/tension? have someone fly. Record all readings and set ea sim from that. Then tweak from there, repeat till you get it. I'd love to do it on a RC sailboat

[@dieuwerf]

Hey Andre, when I saw step 3 it got me thinking. Did you yourself ever do a SIV? You can imagine that there are so many different extreme situations that you can find yourself in with a paraglider and during sivs you'll also learn that they are not always prevented by active flying. To me it seems that the ideal goal of your system would be an active flying autopilot. But I don't see it reacting to situation where geberal active piloting would be enough just yet. When you get into very extreme situations where active flying would never have helped, and possibly will make things much worse (just to name a few, most hands up situations, very precisely timed braking attempts after stuff like unpreventable stalls maybe caused by heavy thermal turbulence, steering away from an object even if you have to spin it slightly) how would you let your system know that it shouldn't take over control but let the pilot use his training? Surely the reactions to these extreme situations (that will still happen even if your as perfect as your potential machine in active flying) are too organic and situation specific to be handled by a machine right now, even with years of machine learning or anything like that applied. If just participating in traffic is already difficult enough for self driving cars, wouldn't handling unintended SIV situations be too much for this system? How do you imagine this would work?

[@dieuwerf]

Never mind, just saw your response to Greg's exact question on video 2, and his was way better worded too. Good luck with this project!

[@jesse2006]

have you ever inflated an air mattress and noticed the little valve designed to take air in but bounce closed when air pushes back? I have for a long time thought about little fabric flaps that pop up if the air reverses making a paraglider very rigid even in a collapse. I believe inflatable harnesses use this type of technology already and I'm really surprised not to have seen any similar inventions inside the paraglider wing by now. thanks for your efforts to make this really fun yet dangerous sport safer.

[@the_arm_bar]

Swing already makes one for their wings. They call it Rast technology.

[@johankroes19]

Hi Jesse!, i also have been thinking about this idea, i think it will work great against collapses, and i think with that you’ll also be able to use a thinner airfoil. The other thing that has to be solved then is how do you change your glide angle If you don’t want to be sucked in the clouds. You can’t fly with ears then, and once you land you want it to deflate quickly. That’s also Some stuff to think about:-)

[@jesse2006]

Staying rigid won't completely solve the problem though because even hang gliders will tuck in a bad turbulence which has caused Pilots to fall into their wing and break the hang glider so is definitely a difficult problem to solve

[@dieuwerf]

Jesse, check out Flysurfer kites. They're made by Skywalk. They're basically paragliders with those flap valves you mention on the cells, made for kitesurfing. So they do not deflate when crashed in water. So that technology exists but if skywalk themselves don't want to use their own tech in their gliders that must say something. Most rigid paraglider experiments have turned out to be very dangerous, too energetic and extreme when instead it could have just calmly deflated.

[@akbarshoed]

What a fantastic job!!

[@entice5479]

Hey Andre, some kites have a one-way flap on the air intake to help maximise internal air pressure, and I wonder if this would be good on paragliders to help minimise a collapse. The Ozone R1 has this tech, and sounds like a good idea on the surface, so not sure why it isn't seen on paragliders.

[@evanbarnes9984]

I guess I wonder what happens if you have a wing like that, but get into a situation where you need to throw your reserve. I'm not sure how that would happen with an uncollapsible wing, but if it did, would the one-way inflation prevent you from killing the wing and folding it up? Or actually, I wonder if it would prevent you from killing the wing on the ground. Could make landing dangerous. I love the idea of no collapses, though.

[@fredericcavrenne162]

you idea seems to be great , but you have to take care about the weight , maybe just a device , either visual our noisy that could informed the pilot on how and when react could already being a further step ahead on your experience . thanks to share that point of view and very nice presentation.

[@kimhangbong]

That makes a lot of sense. I always think about something like this ... putting technology and sensors all over the places in our sport ... throw the computer (which we all have at lease one, a.k.a: an Oudie or a smartphone) into that ... then ... BUM: A paraglider that is much safer! Way to go man. Keep up the good work. ^^ P/S: we are some pilots all the way from Vietnam, we are building some wings and (hopefully) innovative equipments from our garage... Would be nice to cooperate in some way ^^

[@AndreBandarra1]

thanks for the nice comments Kim. Would be interested to see what you build :)

[@salqubeq5203]

Great video. well done

[@robertrichter3033]

I’ve had more than one instructor tell me it’s better to collapse than to not collapse in situations where collapses occur. I took a frontal once. Recovered before I knew what happened. Imagine if that wing was now twisted up inverted and stuck in that situation.

[@davidalhoff7190]

Hi Andre, nice approach to make our sport safer! Instead of using sensors and Cpus with servos, why not use rubberbands? if a lines get loose the rubberbands pull them back to nominal strength. of course this would work for the B's and C's as well. I could also imagine a rubber connected to the break line with or without someblock to adjust the break pressure. cheers David

[@kevinshort3943]

Think it was Flightdesign who user valves ages ago, and Ozone who used a carbon pole. Problem is, a glider that doesn't collapse can get under you. Then you fall into it, get wrapped like an Xmas prezzie, then splat! FYI: The Ozone pole evolved into the plastic wire found in most gliders these days.

[@carlosandreblatt]

Top...aprendí um bocado sobre como esse "trem" voa!

[@ceefife5]

Andre, would a paraglider benefit from a tesla valve incorperated in the design be less prone to collapse?

[@kevinshort3943]

nope. It was done long ago, a glider that doesn't collapse is dangerous. Front tucks are a safety feature, it stops the glider getting under your, and you falling into it.

[@luisgaviria1234]

Great lesson.

[@senzhou]

Excellent explaination! I never fly but want to start. Understanding the principle and how it affects is my first thing to do. A,B,C plus brake, very clear. Subscribed for sure

[@claesylving394]

Have you thought of measuring the actual airpressure inside the cells, I bet a sensitive measruring device would detect a drop in pressure just before a collaps?

[@paul_smart]

that is possible with tiny electronics and battery and a bluetooth link

[@visitkhanpur9103]

Great explain boss

[@georgeassociates5096]

thank you for the valuable informations

[@solarasolarwind4323]

I wish to fly at High Noon around Puffy White clouds in very turbulent conditions in tropical weather around an island with high cliffs! I need this technology!

[@markoszoannou7442]

Wow! Very Nice idea. I never though to make a non collapsible paraglider in such a way. I have some ideas or beter one idea and I would like to shere. But not here...

[@drstrange2292]

divide the internal structure and add a layer dividing cells inside and add inserts above the top

[@akkemik]

Excellent explanation. Thx

[@thedanmaas]

Hey Andre, as a paramotor pilot I find this concept very interesting. I think you are onto something here, whether it be the full system or even just a warning indicator or some sort. I have experience in electronics and feedback-controlled systems. If you end up taking this further and need some help with electronics or programming let me know. Would love to help.

[@AndreBandarra1]

Dan Maas cheers dude! Great to know :)

[@air-jerome]

Hi, I think this is globally a great idea of tech improvement. However, let's take a different point of view on piloting and wing /air/rough conditions: did anyone ever thought about how safe this is sometimes to have a collapse? - a pilot exits a core and on the edge there is a sudden massive sink, the wing flashfrontals and shoots a bit forward. if the wing doesn't absorb this energy by collapsing, pilot falls into wing. - a thermaling pilot centers and corrects by weight-brake inputs, little pendulum movements pushes the pilot on the edge and finally the pendulum is desync with the thermal, wing deflates on a side. with no deflation at all, pilot does a loop in the best case scenario. anyway those 2 quick examples are just to imagine what if... I think for the active pilot, collapses saves more lives than it destroys

[@AndreBandarra1]

All fair points and thank you for taking the time to think about it an comment. My point of comparison is simpler than that though. 2 pilots. same wing, same air. One pilot has 5 hours and another has 5000 hours. The novice pilot will let the wing collapse under turbulence and the experience pilot wont. How can we shorten that gap?

[@adamedgar5765]

if a wing flashfrontals and shoots forward, this system is immediately going to sense that and apply countering brake (so this example is null and void concerning the proposed system). in second scenario, the system still senses a wing deflation and counters it. I fail to see how either of these examples present a problem for Andre's idea?

[@air-jerome]

please do not misunderstand my comment... I don't say this is a wrong idea to create a new safety system. I just say collapses absorbs som unwanted energy and that saves lives too. Everyone saw the dustdevil in laragne this summer, do you think Boris would be alive if the wing didn't frontal?

[@adamedgar5765]

this may or may not be true, however, when flying our first reaction to an impending collapse or a collapse is to instantly add a jab of brake. All this system is doing is removing the delay of such an input from pilot from 2 or 3 seconds to milliseconds.

[@anthonyburke5656]

I suggest you go back and look at the fabric wings the Nazis played with and the “Wing” parachutes of 50 years ago. The advent of the Rogelio design meant those designs were ignored, except in some Reserves. The advent of the “Slider” mechanism to restrict to rapid opening resolves some issues (even for paragliders).

[@DiggeryDoodle]

Am I wrong in thinking then A, B and C lines don’t equally share weight, I was under the impression that A lines carried for example 70% of the weight, B lines 20% and C lines 10%. number are a example. I thought Bs and Cs were more for holding the glider shape as much as carrying some of the load?

[@AndreBandarra1]

Yes, that's right! kzbin.info/www/bejne/d4DOhJ55jbuobtk

[@DiggeryDoodle]

@@AndreBandarra1 thanks for your response, I pull As in parachuting to land, when done properly B,C and D are totally slack. Great videos.

[@bobsaget2958]

ive thought about this many years. When you start adding components to a foil your robbing its simplicity. Even a kitesurf canopy collapses with down drafts. Ive been slammed by a down draft while on a 30 foot boost at the beach. Nothing coulda saved my butt besides the water i landed in

[@herbertlaw7667]

The best way is to use Fiberglass buttons what I used to use on my hang glider. You need a fiber glass leading edge which will keep the shape. The leading edge can be assembled so easy to take down.

[@herbertlaw7667]

Sorry, typo, Fiberglass leading edge with Battons

[@visitkhanpur9103]

Very informative

[@vulturepowerppg4115]

Well done thinking outside the square. Make it pressurised inflatable with no cell opening with one way valve or a small pump. Or Same as kite surfing wings Install a inflatable tube in cell opening might help. Faulty Ecu sensor can scared the shit out of anybody 😀and keep it simple find a simple fix not complicated so any one can fix it if it start playing up. 😀

[@algeriaparagliding9687]

Svp can you more explain?

[@brook7880]

Great video excellent explanation!

[@Logan4661]

The technology to do this already exists in RC aircraft. The only issue that I see is developing a servo that can pull enough brake to work, but is still light enough that you would want to use it.

[@imedimed6950]

Link for the part 2 please

[@andersgrassman6583]

Am I really stupid, thinking the wing could be held uncollapsed just the way tents are? After all, tents are also collapsable. The tent "rods" could be left "permanently" mounted in one dimension, and the others in (two?) dimensions, one would mount just before flight. The rods would be the modern springy type I think. In effect, you would have almost a normal uncollapsable airplane wing. Very similar to the first twin wing airplaines, that had textile mounted to a wooden frame. Model airplanes are also built that way. (It used to be shrinking "China" paper, today it is plastic shrink wrap around the wooden frame.) I figure that would also reduce "runway" length to almost nothing. Well, the lines create a length of the paraglider. But that could also be shortened by servomotors. gradually extending the length of the chords at take-off. (Would it also work when landing?)

[@vmlinuxz]

Did you know that a mechanical keyboard makes a touch typist type up to 20 percent faster? Much of the speed increase is due to not only the tactile feedback of the keyboard, but the actual louder sound of the keyboard. The audiatory feedback makes a person much faster to respond by moving to the next key. Perhaps something on the line that sounded an auditory que, like a pop noise or something if the tension releases below a certain threshold of the A risers or even a popping feeling on the riser.

[@AndreBandarra1]

interesting concept

[@rawcrux]

Collapse alarm= Line integrated strain gauges, micro weight conversion load cell, and an arduino.

[@nicolausefferoth4305]

Nice one!

[@abduliam]

maybe there can also be a way to monitor the wind flow direction above the wing at a couple of points, because if thats the first change that happens before a collapse then the latency of this information will be the least and this extra information can help in better computation or at-least knowing whats happening, maybe not that useful/possible but sharing anyway, in hope to be a help in wings of future ;-)

[@abduliam]

did an initial research on it, although traditional sensors are big and bulky and don't make sense, but maybe ultrasonic sensors can open up a new world of options, further research is possible.

[@NelsonsWings]

Deflations happen with sub-second rapidity. The wing transitions from stable fligt to collapse faster than any system can respond. That's why it will be more feasible to develop a system that aids in recovery after the collapse.

[@abduliam]

you might be right, but even if it doesn't get into mainstream, the study alone can bring some new knowledge previously unknown, I think even that is worth trying :-) btw based on my little experience the wing does give a feedback, a funny often scary feeling before it collapses, I believe a microprocessor+sensors may be able to detect it quicker then a a human can, even if not, lets give it a try and find out!

[@grejen711]

Need an AoA indicator of some type. Fixed wings have stall warning devices and even AoA instrumentation. Would it be possible to calibrate a sensor on the harness?

[@jt2007jt2007]

Hello guy. Would you put English subtitles? Thanks a lot!

[@amermohammed]

Did u hear about something we call it reflex parafoil?

[@onamission1848]

What is that?

[@franmisantone3230]

i fly model airplanes and what your describing is AS3X you might want to look into that technology only in a bigger scale good luck

[@EVANGEaSCOOT]

Andre you are scaring me today i was thinking of this idea i thought people would laugh but just think they do have wenches and automatic reels for fishing .Think of one solid box the shape of the original risers coming down to your harness with those servos and takup wheels. I cant beleive we think the same take care.if you need more from this let me know

[@anthonyburke5656]

Ever think that if you succeed you may create more problems than you cure. Hang gliders don’t collapse, but they stall big time, create a non collapsing paraglider and you lose Pendular Stability, which is the self correcting virtue of a paraglider, albeit sometimes needing “brake pumping” to assist in re-inflating the glider. Look at Kite Surfing canopies.

[@terryandteresa]

Excellent!!!

[@itsjustme4026]

So what about single skin paraglider?

[@AndreBandarra1]

not sure

[@oumasstabdallah3424]

You could use student scema instead of normal one that is very difficult to analyse

[@Leo-cu1yq]

Thanks you

[@skyridersean]

A non-collapsing foldable wing is called a Hang Glider - it also has the bonus of efficient sensitive Pitch control - something sadly lacking in the Bag wing thing .... Never mind AI paragliders - just go fly a HG - you will never have to worry about collapses ;)

[@AndreBandarra1]

you don't have to worry about collapses but it will break your back carrying it and your bank account trying to travel with it ;)

[@nunogirao]

The hang glider doesn't allow a frontal collapse to loose control of the wing (not a strong one, anyway), because the triangle is rigid. That's a problem with a rigid paraglider which depends on tensioned lines to control it. Of course in a hang glider you still have other problem for huge collapses... the pilot is «hanging».

[@NoTengoIlusiones]

Completely agree. Hang gliders are like your t-shirt when flying. You forget is on. Just fly.

[@adamaves5563]

Iv fort about this before Maybe something like a kite surfing wing/kite with a tube that has been pumped up to keep the shape

[@justharryjohnson7250]

Adam Aves it could be on a one way valve. when you pre kite the wing it forces in enough air to fill the tube and automatically seals when air has stopped being forced it. this will make launches a lot easier. then when you take to the air and gain speed it will become stronger as more pressure enters it. once landed press a button on the valve to deflate it

[@kiteandpizza]

Hi Adam, that has already been done in the 90's and its important to realize, that a collapse per se is not bad - its a feature! Like the crumple zone in cars etc. If Wing does not collapse and it is attached to the pilot via normal lines, well then you can watch your glider shooting down in front of you - and you cant interact with it anymore - because the lines are not tight any more. Michael Nesler has written about that proto he made - and will never fly again in his book called "Nestflucht".

[@adamaves5563]

Rene Bormann ow I see didn't realise this had allready been tryed I'll have to look it up and have a read :)

[@jorgevalenciaparapente]

I agree that the collapse has its own function and I think a completely rigid wing in flight can have more disadvantages. However, the idea of ​​having wider margins through an "active suspension" is very attractive. Whether applied to the lines as suggested by Bandarra or the wing skeleton as proposed by Adam. Personally, for a long time I have been attracted by the idea of ​​this active behavior through an intelligent inflatable skeleton within the wing itself and that would be able to avoid the most feared accidents by reacting intelligently to them.

[@nunogirao]

It seems a great idea. However, as a kitesurfer I quickly realize that a frontal collapse in a kite almost always brings him down. The lack of tension in the lines makes it a self minded wing. Even counting with a pilot fall to make the retensioning of the lines, the much more dinamic frontal collapse of a paraglider could bring disastrous results.

[@stevekluze3094]

Why not spring loaded ribs in the fabric so it doesn't depend on air to keep it's shape?

[@yusufherlambang3980]

❤❤❤

[@1sanremy]

What about a INFLATABLE PARAGLIDER ?

[@pablotheplug5494]

❤

[@hassansherazi529]

Good

[@ivansavchenco5636]

The first two phrases and like from me:))))))

[@shannonparker7404]

They already have an uncollapsible Paraglider. I think they call it a Hang Glider? :-) 🙂

[@markmcgoveran6811]

Please get a hold of me somehow and I will send you drawings and notes about some of these things to make more sense of thank you

[@NoTengoIlusiones]

Uncollapsebale Paraglider = Hang Glider. Voila. Cheers

[@Iboxx]

It reminds me of the 737 Max MCAS.. failure of the sensors could easily cause more problems than it's supposed to resolve. Sorry, it doesn't sound like a good idea

[@alltheboost5363]

Instead of going that route what about adding tension rods to the wing similar to something that's in a tent not enough to add support far as making it a solid Wing but enough to make sure that it always stays it's a general shape.

[@Chatt9821]

Boeing tried this it didn’t turn out well

[@AndreBandarra1]

What happened?

[@Chatt9821]

Andre Bandarra Ethiopian airways crash generally anything that overrides human intervention isn’t a great idea

[@AndreBandarra1]

@@Chatt9821 My idea is not to override human intervention, it's to augment it. That's pretty much how all modern fighter jets work (fly by wire) or even a modern car. There isn't a physical cable connecting the accelerator pedal to the carburettor anymore. Theres a throttle sensor that tells the ECU what the driver wants out of the engine. But if the driver want's full power at 1000rpm the ECU knows that the best idea is not to dump as much fuel in the engine as possible, which is what it used to happen if the link was manual like in older cars.

[@collinssherertz7101]

Apply this to an automatic reserve.