Andrew Gosden Disappearance | Lured Away from Safety?

[@BrightonDunkz]

Andrew's face is still up on posters at many railway stations in the UK. I see his face whenever I travel to London for work. There is no way he would not have seen those posters and I believe if he was still alive someone would have recognised him by now.

[@piapadmore430]

Poor darling.

[@catchtwenty22]

Boys age so different from each other. The boys I knew as a kid are almost unrecognizable now. Beards, weight and muscle changes like what happened to the chubby little shy boy with glasses and acne? He’s a stud now, a pure chad. 😂 I hope his wits and curiosity found him in a good situation. I hope he’s alive.

[@chathuranganijayasekera2995]

🙏🙏🙏

[@BaconAndMinecraft]

really? wasn't this like 14 years ago??

[@JoePlatt1]

They need to update them to people who have gone missing much more recently

[@MissBliss818]

You really had me with “he had an interest in dying - his hair black”

[@captainlovett4724]

Omg me too 😂

[@granthubick8684]

lol

[@SY-ok2dq]

The black humor!

[@mouthygirl95820]

I won’t lie I was sitting here listening and when I heard that I was like OH!!!! Then said rest I was like oookk… lmao glad I’m not the only one who got startled by the way he said that.

[@weewoosmonkeybusiness]

That was a really poorly timed pause 😆

[@user-kn4ge3gn8j]

Two guys were arrested a few days ago, in relation to the disappearance of this lad. They were charged with kidnappng and child-trafficking. I think he was targeted and groomed by someone he met on that 2 week stay at Lancaster University, and he'd already made the arrangements with this 'person' to meet up on that day in September when he went missing, which is why there was no evidence of any online activity. Very sad.

[@dianadenman5637]

I agree. He bought a one way ticket. That is very alarming. To me, that shows he wasn't planning on returning for some time. No way was he going to a concert or museums. If so, he'd buy a return ticket. I think someone conned him into thinking he was going on some excursion, some thing "special" that he couldn't tell anyone about. Very sad.

[@HeyDoNotSubscribe]

True, very interesting...what do you think happened to him afterwards?

[@stevemcelmy9354]

they haven't been charged, only arrested

[@user-kn4ge3gn8j]

@@HeyDoNotSubscribe I think he'd been groomed for some sinister purpose. I think he was trafficked or killed by some no good out there, sadly.

[@catking396]

So very sad

[@Volatolx]

"The return ticket was only half a pound more" The least British way I've ever heard someone say 50p

[@sirandrelefaedelinoge]

Half a pound of apples maybe ...

[@Stichting_NoFa-p]

I an not British or American and don't get it because pound is British. So what would be a typical British way to say it?

[@Volatolx]

@@Stichting_NoFa-p we don't say "half a pound" although it is technically correct. We say 50p because 50 pence coins are half a pound. Its like if something cost 10 cents and I said "wow, only a tenth of a dollar" lol

[@221b-Maker-Street]

@@Stichting_NoFa-p what’s your native currency? 🤔

[@Stichting_NoFa-p]

@@221b-Maker-Street how could you figure out?

[@lynncrf]

The fact that he was always ready to go in the mornings but grumpy and late that morning suggests he slept poorly or maybe was chatting to someone during the night. It is also telling that he had started walking home from school recently. Was he meeting someone on those walks? I think he had arranged to meet someone and bought a one way ticket because he thought he would be getting a lift home. The person he met was a predator.

[@PedroHenrique-gr4zr]

the simple stress by the day after being the day he would travel to met this person could cause him to get anxious and lose some sleep, it doesn't necessarily means he spent the night chatting

[@markym6683]

I was trying to figure out the one way ticket piece, yes your theory makes sense.

[@dcnative1618]

I wonder if he used a pre-paid cell phone. OTOH it sounds like he did not have his phone with him on purpose as law enforcement could see what towers it pinged and narrow down a time and location.

[@leeandrew8987]

Yes probably

[@RR.LL.3B]

@@dcnative1618 he lost his phone a few months before he disappeared and wasn’t bothered about getting it replaced

[@scose]

"he expressed an interest in dying... ...his hair black."

[@AEPMUSlC]

I was so confused with how he phrased that..

[@kevinf8439]

He did that on purpose for sure. 😂

[@Jerico195]

Such a good troll by Dr. Grande

[@teresasully3561]

😂 I know right?!

[@rachelcunningham2498]

that got me too hahaha

[@uzaiyaro]

“He expressed his interest in dying…” Oh god. “…his hair black.” Oh…

[@captainlovett4724]

I know right??? I was looking for this exact comment 😂

[@eiephants]

@@captainlovett4724 Me Too!

[@SuperMelrose1]

YES! I gasped for a sec lol

[@wendyleeconnelly2939]

"naturally, it was brown"

[@abeycee7427]

@@wendyleeconnelly2939 It looks blond

[@LesleyAnnPrettyBeads]

I'm so sad about Andrew. There isn't anything worse than your child going missing. My thoughts to his family. Thanks for the post. And congrats on the book, looking forward to it. Big ups to you Dr G from over the pond. 👏

[@BrenMurphy1]

Yrs, I miss our little Timmy O'Toole. God Blesses 🙏🙏🙏

[@rajs7876]

Yes there is, being falsely accused of killing him. Poor Kevin.

[@jules151968]

2 Men (foreigners) have been arrested for people trafficking.

[@patriceaqa288]

@@jules151968 Andrew gosden had a secret online footprint and was lured away by not old but older males he was dead by November 2008 this case will be solved

[@MarcusBlueWolf]

@@patriceaqa288 Proof?

[@JustMe-ef7xv]

Extremely sad story. I know an very intelligent young man with high functioning Autism. Multiple degrees. He speaks and presents himself very well. But, he has serious problems reading other people, is gullible, naive, emotionally immature. He's very lonely, especially for a mate. He's done numerous things to relieve his loneliness and sexual desires that I warned him were very dangerous due to his non existent street smarts & comon-sense. Sounds to me like Andrew, at some point, crossed paths with the wrong person.

[@Lovinlife1234]

Absolutely correct...I also suspect perhaps he was molested at camp..is why he came back never wanting to go back..then he changed dramatically....

[@robbiebutler1473]

Yes it’s a tragic fact that’s sad and a dangerous side affect for these individuals, it’s also proven that psychopaths actually can spot these people and even others with just low self esteem or even single mother’s to manipulate whether for financial gain and of course to torture and kill their victims. They truly view people as just objects (no different than an inanimate object ie: a table or a cup), so no human appeals for mercy mean nothing to these monstrous people. They view human beings of all ages as just pawns to be used in their game of life and if sadistic torture, rape and killing is they’re end goal they do whatever it takes. When it comes to getting something they want ie: financial gain they’ll manipulate and if they have to will go over or kill to reach their desired goal. They know they’re different just as they know that what they’re doing is wrong in the “traditional legal or moral sense” as I heard them say in interrogations but they’ll say they don’t see it that way and most will admit they don’t have morals or standards regarding caring about feelings of others. In many taped interviews or interrogations they are open about knowing that they were different since pre-teen years but because they don’t have shame or remorse that would come with thinking about doing bad things they simply don’t see any reason to seek help for they know it’s who they are which they’re accept as their normal and everyone else as different. It’s proven that what the doctors or scientists have learned which is still in its infancy that there’s not much to do to help except they’ve do believe they must start treatment at very young ages ie: 7 - 8 years even then the science is still not even close to any real signs of any drug along with treatment therapies helping. The brain is still such a huge mystery even with the tremendous strides research has made in treating or operating regarding certain diseases or tumors, there’s much of the brain I don’t see us understanding for a very long time to come and that’s not because of the lack of amazing specialists and their ground breaking research into so many different issues with the study of the brain.

[@daisybennett1600]

I have ASD and could definitely see my 14 year old self being kidnapped in such a way…so sad. I hope he wasn’t harmed but unfortunately it sounds likely that he was.

[@maxalberts2003]

Just because young Andrew appeared nerdy doesn't necessarily imply autism. But you're right about the ability to read people. It's a survival skill.

[@Rashy225]

@@acmhfmggruI agree. He also had a special interest in old comedy shows and would quote them all the time.

[@JD-qd5zp]

I feel fairly positive that there was someone behind the scene masterminding and manipulating Andrew until he had him in the palm of his hand and talked him into coming to London.

[@silverstuff182]

No question.

[@oldbatwit5102]

There has never been any evidence of someone grooming him.

[@miraclesforus2]

Oldbadwit .duh..there usually isn.t

[@johnpoole8321]

I'd check heavy into the cub scout leader. Why did he not want to go back?

[@Tgogators]

I feel London is at the heart of this mystery. Something went terribly wrong while he was there. I gather he was targeted (possibly had an arrangement to get home)... It could be he was randomly robbed, tried to fight back, and was accidentally killed. I also feel the killer didn't intend to murder either but felt they had to. No matter what, they're definitely hiding in plain sight.

[@sreddy250]

I see posters for this young boy every time I'm in town. His parents have never given up hope. Please let him be safe and thank you for covering this Dr.G.

[@majlordag1889]

Aw😔 that's so sad I have a brother his age when he disappeared must be horrible

[@thefirstsurvivor]

those police are so incompetent it's infuriating

[@nkt1]

I suspect that his cherubic face is lucrative for the charity that produces those posters, otherwise why do they frequently appear on the bus shelters up here in Edinburgh? That won't come cheap. Let's face it, he almost certainly died nearly 15 years ago and, even if he didn't, he'd look substantially different by now.

[@tina654]

@@nkt1 that's a very sad and unfortunately believable idea of why they still put them up

[@thomasalvarez6456]

Doesn’t look good sadly.

[@jpk1593]

I get so upset over Andrew....I pray one day his family have the truth and can take Andrew home

[@mosaicmonk4380]

you only upset in the momenet you dont give a fuck

[@ThepPixel]

@@mosaicmonk4380 yeah even so you can still be sad for a few moments and not let it ruin your own day.

[@stephanieann8115]

@@mosaicmonk4380 what is a momenet? Just curious 🧐

[@jpk1593]

@Julia Masong....they are not worth the time or effort...it's sad they are so ignorant. I am mum of 3 in the UK so I have followed this case closely...the parents have suffered so much over the years...it's heart breaking for them just not knowing and bring accused of all sorts. We all would like resolution. Thank you for your kind words Julia x

[@cscscsc]

Ignore the childish idiots with their comments. I have thought of this case many times over the years. It always upsets me too. Poor kid, and his poor family.

[@Nosillamp]

Someone got to him & groomed him. In the CCTV he looks like he’s looking for someone-so heartbreaking. I hope there are answers for the family.

[@gabe-po9yi]

@Allie B. Yep, from the footage shown he looks left, right, left, right, exactly like he’s looking for someone.

[@spudmurphy9264]

@@gabe-po9yi My first thoughts too but there have been reports,( not confirmed), of him sitting in a cafe after leaving the train station. So maybe had plans to meet someone there ? You wonder if he was meeting someone, did they tell him to go to that cafe so that they could watch from a distance to see if he had arrived alone ?

[@leeandrew8987]

Poor young guy

[@lindalund9621]

I also think He was groomed

[@BracaPhoto]

My nuanced analysis - something happened he was ashamed of - one of his peers found out about it OR participated with him At some point they threatened to "expose" him for cash - Cash was paid - even more threats to expose him - He's a smart kid - he knows it's pointless - it's GONNA get out ! The mistake was too big in his mind He was hoping to come back to his Uniform ! It was waiting neatly for him - Sad to imagine He was too smart to have his body found - that would expose his shame

[@alexburt6995]

It's terrifying to think that there are murderers out there walking free among us. You could be standing next to one, exchanging pleasantries and never know.

[@kathy-t5q]

Exactly. After listening to Case Files podcast, I never want to leave my house ever, ever. So scary. Just one story: Steven Stayner who was kidnapped by a man for 7 years, he was saved and they made a movie about it called “I Know my First Name is Steven”. Well, his older brother was a serial killer who killed 4 women at Yosemite National Park. So unreal the two stories. Same family, both scary as hell.

[@darrenlangton3996]

I'm from Doncaster. I know Andrew's parents well through the church I attended, and my heart goes out to all of them. You're in my prayers. 🙏

[@S_8-]

I am pretty convince he went to London to meet someone supposed to drive him back home within the day.

[@personalcheeses8073]

It’s an awful long way to travel and expect to be back the same day

[@nickyblue4866]

That makes sense

[@matheus_ooliv]

It seems to me he didn't have many friends and was very mature. If this person is someone he couldn't talk about with anyone, then it's someone close to him. I think his parents would know a suspect.

[@Reticence9zen924]

@@personalcheeses8073 Google maps says currently the train only takes about 2 hours from Doncaster to London. However, the estimate for a car journey is about 3 and a half hours for that, so it would be a longer trip to get back in the same day.

[@littlebrayutd]

Check out the Trevor deeley case in dublin, missing 20 yrs now,,

[@Joanna7428]

I think the major worry is his purchase of a one way ticket, no words to his parents, I can't help thinking it was a suicide or he had become involved with someone sinister. He would have been 28 now 😟

[@Maw0]

He's been possibly dead as long as he has been alive.

[@stevemcelmy9354]

why go to London to commit suicide? Plus the body has never been found

[@Maw0]

@@stevemcelmy9354 The body wouldn't be found because it's London. It's such a huge city with so many places to dispose of a dead body.

[@stevemcelmy9354]

@@Maw0; yes I was referencing the OP's theory of possible suicide..who commits suicide hundreds of miles from home and in a location where his remains have never been found? I agree he was most probably murdered and the body discarded.

[@Maw0]

@@stevemcelmy9354 It could be possible, because we don't know his reasoning for any of this, he might not to have wanted to be found, but I don't know. I don't really believe in that theory either, but that could have been a possible answer.

[@teresasully3561]

I don't think he was just sneaking off to a concert or he would have got a return ticket.. unless someone said they would meet him.. and would later drive him home but was conning him.

[@mustertherohirrim7315]

I'm surprised the return ticket wasn't £1 cheaper than single.

[@pinkpink-kb6dl]

This has bugged me for a while but I think its mattering less to me. Socially anxious people do that kind of thing a lot. My gf got asked if she wanted to donate a dollar at the dunking drive though. She goes multiple times a week, but one day she panicked and said "yes". We drove forward and she immediately was like "I don't know why I did that", and she's a grown woman lol. How many times have you said yes to a cashier asking if you wsnt a receipt even though you didn't? It's still an odd detail but I could see an awkward boy getting flustered by a unplanned question from a service worker

[@nkt1]

@@mustertherohirrim7315 Why would it be £1 cheaper? It's very common for standard return tickets to cost only slightly more than a single, but not less.

[@derby1884]

In which case, it would have to be someone who Andrew felt comfortable travelling back with. Also someone who had something to do with Doncaster (otherwise, however gullible Andrew is said to be, even he'd wonder why a Londoner would drive all that way and back to take him home).

[@mustertherohirrim7315]

@@nkt1 I'm highlighting the non sensical ridiculousness of the british system at times. E.g. reduce smoking (they stop selling 10's so have to buy 20 instead) etc..

[@thereelisleoflewis]

I listen to Dr Grande almost daily. Never did I ever think he would cover a story based on a street where I used to live!

[@ericainchains5806]

Hard to believe Andrew would be 29! I pray for him and his family. I hope they get answers and hope he's out there safe somewhere.

[@jessestewart169]

Scary as hell when children under 18 vanish. Sure makes you think. Predators are everywhere. Good episode doc, interesting but horrorifying.

[@Flufferz626]

Unfortunately too, the people most likely to abuse/assault/molest/kill a child are the parents, followed by other family members. Or someone they know

[@sirandrelefaedelinoge]

"predators are everywhere" that's what the media want you to believe.

[@lanceanthony198]

@@sirandrelefaedelinoge Well statistically they are everywhere, maybe in lesser numbers than the media makes it seem, but at any given place there’s probably a predator or individual with very bad intentions near by

[@sandracmyers]

@@lanceanthony198 absolutely , they may not be everywhere but it only takes one wolf to kill many sheep for example: Israel Keyes, Green River Killer, etc, etc, etc.....

[@melodi996]

@@sirandrelefaedelinoge no, that's a fact.

[@leysanderson]

I'm from the UK: his missing posters are everywhere. Hopefully, one day we'll find out how his story goes or (unhopefully) ended.

[@janiceharris5475]

I know. I hope he is found for his and his parents sake. If not, his body is found and his parents can seek closure.😢💔🙍

[@JoePlatt1]

They need to get rid of them and have the faces of people who went missing more recently. This kid is gone let’s face it.

[@MissJuggler]

I feel like he's most likely dead, but the question remains where would you hide a body in London

[@dappadappz9374]

The posters don't get easier too see either.. I'm so baffled how there was no more footage of him after he arrived and let the station in London?!

[@JoePlatt1]

@@dappadappz9374 yeah you'd think they'd try and map out his possible walk due to different exits of the station, shops etc

[@tiabiamama]

If he bought only a one way ticket, it is possible that he planned to return in a car, or go somewhere else with someone.

[@anista1390]

So glad you covered this case as it has haunted me, it’s so baffling and so sad. I didn’t think it was particularly well known outside of the UK. I read somewhere that there was a lead when someone reported talking to someone on a forum who said he had run away at 14 and started a new life but was struggling for money. His online moniker was the same as a family nickname Andrew had, apparently. He was living outside of London. Not sure what came of that lead. I believe the most likely scenario is that he was preyed upon by a stranger. I lived in London and Kings cross is a pretty dodgy area. London is not safe for a young looking lad on his own who’s not street wise. It astounds me that London has heavy CCTV surveillance and yet they couldn’t access evidence in time!! How frustrating. I hope he did pull off a Reginald Perrin and is still alive and safe somewhere. His poor family 💔

[@gillian7662]

Andrew's case always caught my attention and i revisit it often. It's not often that someone disappears and there's not a lot of leads, DNA evidence, suspects, or something to go off of. We're also about the same age, and I understand his love of rock/emo subculture as well as the idea of thinking you're mature enough to travel alone and other "typical adult" things. I hope one day we find out what happened to him, his dad in particular seems so hurt and it seems like they had a special bond. I have hopeful thoughts of maybe someone in 10-15 years stepping forward because they heard something from a friend of a friend

[@missnellaful]

Ask the band...they could have arranged this and the disappearance of the other young man. Why are they assumed to be so innocent, musicians are not analyzed enought!!!

[@Maw0]

His age in 2007 or his age in 2022?

[@d-meth]

@@missnellaful wtf?!? What does the band have to do with anything?

[@Samantha-sq8yh]

I feel sorry for his dad. When I was younger used to go to beavers/cubs/scouts (a few yrs after Andrews disappearance) which was held in the church, and I would always see his dad cleaning the church afterwards. I really hope they find answers to what happened to Andrew.

[@nekophilia9400]

"...he expressed he had an interest in dyeing..." Me: Oh no! "...his hair black." WHAT A TIME TO TAKE A BREATH

[@emmanuelbeaucage4461]

me too! reminded me of something in the news a few years back: "today in the street an angry mob burned the pope..." [the anchorman drink some water] "effigy..."

[@purplerain2314]

Same

[@carolbaughan8768]

Teenagers

[@DonPeyote420]

he was clearly high... in his openness to experience

[@hannamakela6989]

I had the EXACT same reaction. ;)

[@blairjones1351]

I think this is one of the most fascinating and baffling missing persons cases. What happened to him? Thanks for covering it, Dr Grande.

[@flufftronable]

One of the most fascinating cases like that is the disappearance of Judy Smith

[@truepink0522]

@@flufftronable That's another case that is absolutely baffling.

[@TBx46]

It always makes me feel creeped out for some reason

[@audreygibson4780]

I hope they find him one day. My gut tells me it wont be pretty. And the fact that the other boy went missing....he might not be the only one they find

[@RockyDaTherapist]

@@anaseijas3923 I was thinking he may have been taken once he got there and been trafficked. There was a case in California a 19 year old male went missing and it was discovered that he'd been abducted and trafficked.

[@fluffyparker1328]

I used to work with vulnerable and troubled kids. Getting on a train to retrieve a young person from London was not an uncommon experience for me. It's the age old lure of the bright lights and big city. Andrew, however in my opinion, seems to have travelled for a specific experience or event otherwise he would have taken the opportunity to stay with relatives in the city over the summer. Being term time it's unlikely that his parents would have let him go. What happened next is anyone's guess but like any highly populated metropolis London has an underbelly. I don't think there was anyone else initially involved but that Andrew got himself into a bad situation and couldn't extricate himself.

[@Tgogators]

I agree. I think he tried to fight back and was killed as a result, even if accidentally. For sure though: he, she, or they are hiding in plain sight, I would not be surprised if they have criminal record and have committed other violent crimes since. London is very much like New York City (for the American readers here): you can be blend in and be whoever you want to be...No one really cares.

[@jamesbowman6925]

I think Andrew may have traveled to London in order to lose his virginity. He may have been teased in school about still being a virgin. He may have attempted to hire a prostitute and been victimized by an opportunistic offender.

[@annamack5823]

@@jamesbowman6925 That is ridiculous. He was clearly *not* emotionally mature.

[@jamesbowman6925]

@@annamack5823 Your reply doesn't make sense. His not being emotionally mature wouldn't have prevented him from trying to lose his virginity.

[@benedictearlson9044]

@@jamesbowman6925 He would have got a return ticket if that were the case.

[@lilyisacat29]

Something I agree with with a lot of the theories/discussion I’ve read online is that we tend to forget that Andrew was a teenager, and thus he was prone to make simple mistakes, such as refusing a return ticket. I can guarantee all of us, at least once, in our times as teenagers have made weird choices that inconvenience us because we have had very determined mindsets about how we want to do things. I’ve run across six lanes of traffic because I wasn’t familiar with a waking route that my friend told me to walk. Absolutely stupid choice, but it made sense to my thirteen year old brain who just didn’t feel comfortable about the walking route for whatever reason. So, as odd as Andrew buying a single-way ticket is, it’s important to consider Andrew’s choices in a holistic way with all possibilities of his motives. Teenagers minds function in an extremely different way to adults.

[@victoria.xseven7913]

Agreed, it all sounds like a seamless plan enacted, but perhaps that's just objective retrospection. Like why would he leave £100 from his house but take £200 from his bank account? Did he forget it? Not know where it was? Perhaps felt he didn't deserve it? Teenage minds think in ways we might not remember necessarily or not think of things at all due to lack of experience.

[@bernardcassidy5603]

Very good point , I never thought about that and there was some mention of him sleeping in a park , four days later , such strange mysteries and the mathematical thing sounds interesting considering the other missing boy was a mathematical genius , there may be a link to this as a method to lure the boys .

[@olliebarnard7236]

@Jett the thing is tho, if he wanted to do something like that, why wouldn’t he just do so with or with parent permission. I personally think it was something that he wouldn’t have gotten permission for and had to be done that particular day

[@despicabledavidshort3806]

@Jett this actually makes the most sense, explains why he didn't take all his money, and that he thought he would have a ride home

[@Locutus]

I watch Judge Judy a lot. I saw a case involving this man, who was late teens. He needed to pay his car insurance, but his money got stolen from his car. What happened was that the insurance office was next to his gym, and he wanted to go to the gym first, then pay his insurance, despite having the money in his car! He comes back from the gym and his money had been stolen. JJ didn't believe him at first, she asked why he didn't pay the insurance first? She asked Byrd, is that normal? Do you believe that? She asked In disbelief. He actually said, yes, teenagers would do something stupid like that. In the end, JJ said she wasn't too sure about the money, but after speaking with Byrd, she believed him - JUST.

[@carlwinters8632]

One thing I can say about Dr. Todd Grande is that he has never had a boring episode. Anytime he gives an analysis of something, his thoughts are complete and intelligent. Also the fact that he is mild mannered proves you don't need to be weird or off the chain to deliver interesting content.

[@maximum_dakka]

Has anyone ever actually managed to explain WHY Andrew never used the internet? I'm not saying it's impossible, but everything else I've seen suggested Andrew was an intellectually curious young man and it seems odd to me that he'd never even use it just to research something innocuous he had an interest in. Unless there was a clear indication of exactly why he wasn't using the internet, my immediate instinct upon hearing about a highly intelligent teenage boy with absolutely no internet history in 2007 would be that he was unusually good at covering his tracks, not that he just never used it at all.

[@snikrdoodls14]

I'm surprised people haven't thought about the possibility of him using a computer at school. Back then it was a quite a new thing, but there were things like computer time. I remember the room vividly at my primary school, which would've been around the same time-frame as when Andrew went missing. I'm also quite sure, considering he was a smart lad, that the crude form of age-restriction would be nothing for him to get past. With Myspace being a possible way he communicated.

[@ghostcat8244]

I can honestly say I’m a year older then Andrew and around 2007 not allot of us had internet back at home truthfully only people who are from a well off family. The bands he was into same thing I was usually from a show that’ll play music videos that’s plays metal stuff or magazines we see at a shop/record store.

[@lostandfound5145]

Agreed. No freaking way a bright 14 yr old boy in 2007 wasn’t using the internet. I didn’t have internet or a computer at home and still found ways to get online when I was a kid and that was in the 90s.

[@eoinoconnell185]

Yep. This is one of those ''odd'' things that stood out to me. From all accounts, he was exceptionally intelligent. Someone like that could easily find a way onto the internet in a secretive manner. Having no internet access simply doesn't pass the smell test with me. Not at 14 and not someone in school. The other ''odd'' behaviour was walking miles home from school rather than taking the bus. It is both highly unusual and unwarranted. He didn't need to. There was absolutely no reason to do this unless he was doing something on his walk home, be it meeting a person or accessing the internet in a cafe. One thing is for sure, someone out there knows what happened.

[@Balrog-tf3bg]

He probably had some sorta burner phone, perhaps provided by a cool older guy

[@maureeningleston1501]

Dr Grande's calm logical approach to every case he covers is what's needed to be rational and look at every possible scenario.

[@cosimavonliebenau8317]

Kings Cross, until it was recently gentrified, was a sleazy part of London around a mainline train station, and a tube station where a few underground lines meet. There was a well known street walking area for sex workers, and the area and its grubby cafes attracted pimps, drug dealers, junkies, homeless people from nearby hostels, and teenage runaways who felt safer sleeping in squats than back home with their families. I hope Andrew had a guardian angel.

[@bennybenny7382]

just watch the dennis nilsen documentary. its obv he got murdered.

[@MrOnionterror]

When I was a teenager I was always told- and I thought it was largely bollocks at the time- that King's Cross, and Victoria, were patrolled by people looking for fresh faced runaways to put to grubby purposes. I thought it was adult hysteria to stop us having fun, as you do, but I've heard of too many kids fleeing a boring life who don't ever come back.

[@Elite_Gamer_1337]

from your description, most likely not.

[@HueyPPLong]

@@MrOnionterror and it goes back to the 1800s too…

[@Tgogators]

It's a major commuter spot, and like said a good amount of panhandlers, they target you if they suspect you're a tourist. I've had a guy come up randomly, put his arm around me (in a bro hug manner) trying to panhandle me for change. I imagine it must have been much worse in the early 90s (partially when the IRA tensions were at all time high), even the Westminster area (Parliament area) was swarming with drug addicts, gangs, teen gangs, and sex workers (many working quite openly), rubbish bins emptied everywhere.

[@SkipMDMan]

Here's my opinion as a former closeted gay teenager. From all the different videos I've seen and webpages I've read, Andrew was bullied at school. Probably for three reasons, vision, hearing and intelligence. Then as he got older (again from other videos) even his possible perceived sexuality. During his time at the summer gifted program he met someone older. Not like an older man, probably a graduate student at college. Someone who lived in his town at his parent's house when not in London but who had a permanent residence in London. This person got close to Andrew in the program, invited him to stop by (walking home from school) and this person made Andrew feel like he was desired. At the next meeting this person gave Andrew a burner phone to keep in contact. Even though Andrew was absentminded and lost the other phones, this phone had other meaning. He went to London to meet this man without telling the man he was coming and when he arrived at the man's door, things didn't go well. Either that or they went too well. Whichever it was (hopefully the second), he never left that place.

[@jamesbowman6925]

It sounds very plausible. I haven't seen any evidence that he was gay, but it's possible that someone that young could be preyed upon by a man regardless of the younger person's sexual orientation.

[@StuartWoodwardJP]

Actually a burner phone would solve a lot mysteries in this case.

[@deborahmazza8123]

Your theory sounds extremely plausible to me, as well. I also thought that his not taking the bus home from school was indicative of a lead as to what was really going on in his mind.

[@truly3743]

Sounds very realistic. I was also thinking he was bullied in some way at school and perhaps bullied on the bus as well. I pray for his family.

[@RowanWarren78]

That's certainly possible. Lgbtq kids are so vulnerable.

[@Agaettis]

No bullying? He was small for his age, gifted, quiet and walked 4 miles home on multiple occasions to not take the bus.... No bullying, suuuuuuure

[@LifesPeachy321]

I agree! The way his demeaner was described was that of a bullied young man...I was very surprised when Dr. G said he was not bullied. His actions, to me, seemed like a very depressed, sad young lad. He purchased a one-way ticket....hmmmmm

[@TheMartyandy]

@@LifesPeachy321 I'd think Dr Grande isn't trying to make any guesses. While those characteristics are common in people bullied, it doesn't necessarily mean everyone who shows them is bullied. It's one of those "All of X are Y, but not all of Y are X" sort of things.

[@LifesPeachy321]

@@TheMartyandy i hope my comment didn't come across as negative toward Dr. G...he was just stating that they said Andrew wasn't bullied and I was surprised by that...the description of his demeanor sounded like someone that was bullied.

[@melodi996]

@@LifesPeachy321 well, he was gifted and likely had some mental deviations, so he wouldn't feel as "one of our own" in school environment, he didn't have to be bullied for that. Ticket is explained either by him taking a ride with whoever he wanted to meet (or if he for some reason wanted to see relatives).

[@janetharris4237]

Per his father in an interview, he only walked home once and that was the same week that he left for London.

[@anastasialiberate3568]

Him wanting to leave the scout group 2 weeks before seems bit weird. I'd wonder if something happened there to maybe trigger him to running off as no erratic behaviour was mentioned before that

[@teresasully3561]

My thoughts too.

[@shszady]

I was going to mention this as well. Why did he want to quit? Scout leader a groomer?

[@circeular]

@@shszady He could have been suicidal. I withdrew from all social circles, hobbies and clubs I was part of right before I planned to commit suicide.

[@dappadappz9374]

I find it hard to believe that there was no bullying, as was stated in the report.. I mean, come on, we all know how kids behave towards eachother.. also how could he keep loosing his phones? Doesn't seem to make sense for someone so intelligent, maybe they were stolen from him rather than lost?! I don't know

[@anastasialiberate3568]

@@dappadappz9374 I wondered if he had undiagnosed aspergers as has a few traits from description. My son has aspergers n also * lost* his phone soon as I got him one. Although strong in certain ways he's very vulnerable and trusting in others ..friendships can be difficult and obviously bullying is an issue when you are on the spectrum. And exploitation a greater risk too . Poor kid either way xx

[@LeeDee5]

I always think about this case. It’s one of the most boggling ones to me.

[@dappadappz9374]

Me too.. until I read all of these comments, I kinda always wondered why it struck me so hard..

[@peggycearnach8034]

Maybe he had another phone that nobody knew about. So very sad.

[@jomama5186]

Thank you for giving this case attention. It breaks my heart for his family.

[@sugarpuff2978]

Two points that I think was missed out. 1) A witness saw him on the train playing his PSP. She said that at no time did she see him using a mobile phone. If he was going to meet someone then surely he would have been using a phone for contact on his journey. 2) Just before he disappeared he went away for two weeks to take part on a course for gifted kids at a university. It was after this that he changed. Apparently, nothing was looked into about this course and who was there or if something could have happened. This event has been completely overlooked at maybe being relevant. He maybe could have been groomed by someone there.

[@PedroHenrique-gr4zr]

exactly how i thought too. i find it very hard to believe that he had any online interactions with this person. As to that university trip, i think that it is relevant that he came back very excited, but im not sure about how long it was since he came back to the day he disappeared. This should be important too, since he never seemd to have any online chatting. Also what could have caused him to walk back home from school? i say it's very likely he was talking to someone while he walked back home

[@jenpizzle1]

@@PedroHenrique-gr4zr I think the trip was in July of 2006 and he went missing the end of 2007. But maybe he was using school computers to keep in contact with someone he met on his trip to Lancaster?

[@Antelope2000]

@Vercingetorix lol freudian nip slip

[@Pinkclouds512]

Two men were just arrested in connection with his disappearance. They were child traffickers. I think he was meeting someone, they are suggesting someone from the camp he went to

[@celiasdream145]

@@Pinkclouds512 where did you get this information?

[@matiaslangon6799]

Dr. Grande has a podcast, uploads daily high quality videos taking a lot of research, and is still able to write a book at the same time. Just speculating but, that's some really high conscientiousness. Congrats Dr. G!

[@Kirstyj678]

I’m happy you covered this case. I always think about this boy wishing his parents get answers

[@billie6814]

Good job mentioning the ATM Andrew used could only dispense $20 notes, Dr. Grande! I'm familiar with other channels covering this case and leaving that detail out, causing people to speculate on why he withdrew such a specific amount of money.

[@wendythomas9361]

I agree! That detail is always left out. Other channels just say he did NOT withdraw all of his money.

[@daniellethomas447]

Really it's probably because here in the UK only getting £20 notes is pretty common the next best ones only give you £20 & £10, so to leave £14 is the equivalent of taking everything possible out

[@goofusmaximus1482]

When I was in the UK as active duty, you could only withdraw cash in GBP in £10 increments, and it was debited in USD by the conversion rate, which ranged from $1.50 to $1.98 per £1.

[@alimar0604]

Most UK ATMs only let you have £200 per day 🇬🇧

[@daniellethomas447]

@@alimar0604 I’m pretty sure that changed in the early 00’s it depends on what your bank allows as the maximum to be taken out but on average it’s £250-£300 per day unless you go into branch

[@jackgaffney8468]

3 years later and no sightings. It is wild to me that a person, especially a child could vanish. There's close to 1 million cameras around London and yet someone can still vanish into thin area without a trace. In the US, I can understand, there's so much land and so many people. In the UK, on an island that is so densely populated in comparison to the West, it's just amazing that something like this is even possible in this day in age. He had to have been meeting someone because the steps he took were so organized and planned out that it is hard to believe otherwise.

[@jg7102]

What are the odds a student goes missing and the school called the wrong number? That seems like an eerie coincidence. I pray Andrew is alive, but I fear he is not. My prayers and condolences to his family.

[@solowu]

Someone could could have gotten into the school and changed the record... I know sounds like a Hollywood movie.

[@MrOnionterror]

All the contact details were probably on an a massive spreadsheet, it's easy enough to read the wrong line if you're on reception and have other things claiming your attention. You ring the number, the answerphone kicks in, you're not really listening, you leave the message.

[@kamila.malach]

@@MrOnionterror shouldn't the parents of the wrong-number-kid call back to school that the call is not about their child? The school had to use the kid's name or full name in the message.

[@MrOnionterror]

@@kamila.malach Perhaps they didn't get the message until later. I'm assuming this was a physical answerphone at the house, given when this happened.

[@maddiedennis9974]

@@kamila.malach kids dont come to school every day the reception probably called 20 homes that day and likely wouldn't have known it was so unusual for him because he was so quiet so staff wouldn't be familiar with him .

[@rejaneoliveira5019]

This case is so sad, I can even imagine what life is like for his parents. I feel there was a perpetrator involved in this...😕 Thank you for this video and for everything that you do Dr. Grande.❤️

[@rejaneoliveira5019]

@@anaseijas3923 Absolutely, kids this age can form strong bonds with teachers, so if this is the case he was certainly vulnerable and someone could have taken advantage of it. The fact that nobody knows what really happened just add to pain because our minds can wonder to very dark places. Very tragic.💔

[@schakiarligonde1736]

He’s alive IMO he ran away for a reason

[@mrrizzla4961]

So in addition to being a therapist, pumping out daily KZbin videos, being a podcaster and family man, Dr G is also a novelist? You sir are an absolute machine 💪

[@LawnMowerFan]

I think I’ve listened to more of Dr. Grandes videos than anything else this month 🌵🌵

[@trouaconti7812]

Yes, his content is quite addictive

[@maxalberts2003]

I've lost every phone and wallet and ID card I've ever owned. Over and over and over again. I wonder if he was being bullied secretly, thus walking home rather than riding the bus. I can't imagine him being naive enough to be simply lured away. I believe he was subtly groomed and violently accosted.

[@lindylou6046]

Yes I wondered the same. Was he walking home to avoid bullies on the bus? OR…did he walk all those miles each day with someone who groomed him? Walking and talking would mean no digital trail. They could have easily devised a plan to meet in London. Such a sad story. My heart breaks for his family.😥

[@teresasully3561]

I agree. The fact that he was avoiding the bus was strange.. and has something to do with his demise possibly.

[@BonjourCoco1]

Yes, the same thought about avoiding the bus and being bullied crossed my mind … also, perhaps he didn’t lose his phones … perhaps that was part of the bullying, ie their being taken from him.

[@scootermom1791]

Good point... about being secretly bullied.

[@dortesandal4303]

I think you are on to something👍👍👍

[@GojkoStojanovicII]

An interesting theory is the “Suicide” theory because I do understand Andrew, he had a very similar life to mine, few friends,good at school, likes metal and video games,doesn’t really socialise and I have at some points in my life felt extremely bored and contemplated death not because of depression or tragedy but literally just being sick of how miserable and pointless existence is and I think Andrew may have realised that as well and felt that he knew too much about life and just was simply satisfied with his experience of the human life.

[@beaulieuc8910]

but why go to kings cross

[@JY-tq8dr]

Heartbreaking story. Like a nightmare for me as a mom of 3 boys. Thank you for covering. I really hope this family gets closure. Just ordered Harm Reduction.

[@rosariccardo3529]

Could Andrew and the other boy who disappeared have attended or belonged to some type of activity group where they could have met someone who enticed them away? They could have communicated with the person while attending the group. Congratulations on the book! That's quite an achievement.

[@taramoonshadow363]

What if they were enticed by a manipulative and intelligent individual, who had decided to conduct some horrific experiment on these bright boys!?!

[@tdmccoy1211]

Someone said he had been at some sort of convention/event for academia and may have met someone there that 'befriended' him, and possibly the other boy as well.

[@rosariccardo3529]

@@tdmccoy1211 Wow, that's disturbing :(

[@pinkpink-kb6dl]

Possible but unlikely unless in person. They went through anything in the house that could access the internet and there was no kind of contact like that. I believe he also had very limited internet access if my memory serves. And if it were an in person club, I think that connection would have been made already

[@tdmccoy1211]

@@pinkpink-kb6dl yeah I was thinking like some predator, maybe gave them a burner phone. Maybe someone they would admire in the math world or someone who gives them they thought would be an opportunity.

[@BubbleBas]

One of those cases that constantly in the back of my mind. Hoping for the best outcome for the family and this boy, but, at this point, it is highly unlikely.

[@azaleasmart6455]

Very interesting video, albeit very sad. The point that stands out for me is that Andrew didn't buy a return train ticket. Especially when he was reminded that, that option was available to him for just an extra 50p. Given that London was a long way from Andrews home, buying a return ticket would of surly been paramount. Unless he wasn't planning on returning home. I believe that when Andrew left home, he wasn't planning on returning. It's also possible that he did have a email address but kept the email address secret. I also think that he was choosing to walk to school because he wanted to spend time with someone, that someone was possibly the person that led Andrew away.

[@janetharris4237]

Per his father, he only walked once and that was from school to home and it was the same week that he left for London. But as both the mother and father arrived home from work long after Andrew arrived home from school, it is questionable as to how the father knew that it was only once.

[@Stephen-qi1qx]

This is misunderstood by the poor research/repeating other narratives. One way simply meant he didn't need to return the same day as UK trains return tickets are for same day out and return..

[@ellebee6712]

I thought the same that he met up with someone on his walk and they made a plan to meet up in London. Was his route ever investigated to see whether anyone saw him with someone?

[@AB-gn8oh]

This is such a sad case. My heart goes out to Andrew’s family. It must be terrible not to know what became of you child/brother.

[@meadowsong8560]

A fourteen year old math genius that games with no email or internet searches? That seems like the most improbable part of this case.

[@beaulieuc8910]

religious family

[@lettylunasical4766]

​@beaulieuc8910 tbf theh didn't sound strict; he was allowed the listen to metal and the kids weren't baptised as the parents wanted them to make their own choice.

[@jariel863]

i mean it was in 2008 . When I had a psp as a kid I can still play video games without internet or email 😂

[@stlvn6363]

I hope that Andrew is safe and well somewhere! Interested to see your new book is out soon. I listened on Audible to your book on Serial Killers and I thought it was great.

[@L8MeGuess]

Before he disappeared, he expressed an interest in dying. .. his hair black. That was a morbid strategic pause.

[@The.Whoever]

Lol I thought the same.

[@TraeYoungDPOY]

Corny shitty joke

[@L8MeGuess]

@@TraeYoungDPOY sardonic. Look it up.

[@AB-sg7pl]

Maybe he wanted to die to the life he had until then.

[@NoQuarter1995]

He does have weird pauses all throughout.

[@Jasmine-id8kd]

Dr. Grande have you considered doing an analysis of the "anti-hero" trope in popular media? I think it would be really interesting to see your thoughts on the mental heath/personality traits of morally complex characters such as Tony Soprano, Walter White and Don Draper.

[@Dallasxy]

I agree I’d like to hear what he has to say about it, Jim Can’t Swim did a good criminal psychology video on it called “The Legend of Jeff”

[@kevinrex7414]

The good doctor has done a personality profile of Walter white from Breaking Bad.

[@borissman]

@@Dallasxy jeff was awesome

[@Dallasxy]

@@borissman word on the streets of KZbin is Jeff’s a Lawyer now

[@grumpyoldlady_rants]

Dr Grande did a video on Walter White about a year ago.

[@redjuice02]

his discussion on his book was adorable. He usually seems confident, but with this, he seemed vulnerable... "so, uh, I made this thing..."

[@justagrrl1981]

Andrew seemed like a sweet boy and I have read how close he was to his sister, and also his father who even took him to a Muse concert not long before. I have never believed he would take off on purpose for good. The uniform put in the machine as he did every afternoon after school was because, in my belief he planned on being home that afternoon or evening. I can't explain the return train ticket issue but it could be something more simple than we think. The only thing that I find unusual is a boy that age and of that intelligence not being into the internet and computers more. But apparently not. I pray that one day the truth is known about what happened to him.

[@Maw0]

I heard the police were no help and they were trying to blame the parents on his dissapearance.

[@EmeraldView]

@@Maw0 If there were religious nuts, such parents are often a key reason kids run away.

[@EmeraldView]

The one-way ticket is telling. He didn't intend on returning, and also knew he was going to be taken care of. He likely met someone older and hopefully they are still together today. Given the severe legal and societal consequences we've decided are due for anyone over 18 having a relationship with anyone under 18, Andrew would not want to reveal that he's alive and well and together with this person.

[@TheSpazzQueen]

I think he left planned not to return. He didn’t bring his charger cord because he knew he could get one from who he was with. He did not purchase a round trip ticket and behaved differently the week before

[@SY-ok2dq]

My theory is he knew he had a ride home, or was promised one, therefore it was unnecessary and wasteful to buy a return ticket. He'd still take his charger cord. Why not? Sounds strange he'd expect to get one from someone. He had a charger - so just take it. Also he never packed anything, no extra clothes. Surely he'd want his favorite shirts or at least clothes that fit him? As for his behavior, maybe it's because he'd met someone who changed how he felt. Sounds more likely. Possibly the person who killed or abducted him. Or perhaps the experience of attending that program affected how he felt and it wasn't anything sinister. But that he ran into some pedophile killer perhaps, in London by chance (or the guy prowled around for boys - maybe got too rough and killed Andrew and had to cover it up?)

[@Nice-qi5cf]

@@SY-ok2dq or early onset of schizophrenia?

[@SY-ok2dq]

@@Nice-qi5cf From all that I've read and heard about this case, I don't think anything like schizophrenia was a factor. His behavior doesn't support that. Also, there was that disappearance of Alex Sloley, another teenaged boy from London, less than a year later. This case had several similarities to Gosden's disappearance. There's definitely a possibility that there was a pedophile serial killer at work. Neither boys nor their bodies were ever found, nor any trace of them has appeared since their disappearances. I would say that the most likely scenario is the kind of case we've often heard about, that of a serial killer. And it would seem that the killer (or killers) were very careful and clever, as both cases came to dead ends, hardly any clues that went anywhere, and their bodies have never been found.

[@treetop8697]

Anyone else secretly hoping Dr. Grande treats us to a book reading at some point? Fantastic video as always.. I look forward to these each day!

[@roseangelo4416]

This is a GREAT idea! Dr. G, tease us up with some excerpts from the book!

[@phelmollyn7396]

Get a life

[@treetop8697]

@@phelmollyn7396 ..you're the one being snarky in a KZbin comment thread to an absolute stranger based solely on assumptions sooooo, I'll just consider the source and be on my merry way. Good luck with life, may your trolling bring no misery. 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@Truth1561]

Andrew’s poster has been on the bus shelter at the end of my road for years. My theory won’t be very popular, but I base it on my own experience / complaint from my oldest child ( that I was too controlling when she was growing up) and mean no disrespect . His mum is pretty overpowering - I think Andrew simply left home to have a bit of an adventure and was breaking away from what he thought was a claustrophobic life. He was that age where youngsters can start to think they know it all, they are safe and as said here, he was familiar and comfortable in London- so wouldn’t have any fear of going there. I think after he arrived at Kings cross he unfortunately fell foul of one of the many predatory men there that befriend young boys, then get them into the sex trade. It’s a horrible theory I know, but having talked to a friend’s husband who works in vice in London ( I’m also from the area) it makes most sense to me. The survival of kids that are recruited into this horrible life isn’t great- they tend to die from drugs or violence at a relatively young age 😢

[@elinoirsmythe224]

his family sounds very wholesome, but still it's perfectly natural for teens to feel claustrophobic at home and want a different life... and yeah, lots of extremely shady people around the London stations on the look out for their next mark... horrible to think about :(

[@Truth1561]

@@elinoirsmythe224 I’ve seen his mum many times being interviewed over the years- as I said she’s quite full-on, very confident. It’s just a feeling I have, but there’s no doubt he is very well loved. I hope he’s somewhere living a good life, but I know statistically it’s unlikely.

[@l.k.2337]

Good point about the mom. I work with children with autism and God forbid if we ever say this out loud but almost every mom that I've ever met of an autistic child is demanding, controlling, hard, and aloof. I know, we all have to put on fake smiles and fake positivity so that crazies on social media don't scream at us, but facts are facts. And the crazies on social media will start screaming that it's vaccines that causes autism but in my direct observation these children have cold, hard, and aloof mothers. I'm not saying Andrew had autism but he certainly has traits of autism

[@megsnyder8536]

@@l.k.2337 you're ridiculous 🙄

[@PrincessShinezria]

This is the only theory that make sense to me 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽

[@stesilaus1688]

I feel sorry for the school staff member who dialed the wrong number on the day of the boy's disappearance. He (or she) has probably been blaming himself (or herself) ever since.

[@teresaquail3503]

I dont think it would have made a huge difference sadly andrews fate was sealed when he boarded the train, parents were at work and andrew would have been in london way hefore they could have stopped him, Im afraid to say it but i feel poor andrew would have been in great danger shortly aftet arriving in london. The real tragedy is the delay in getting cctv which police failed to do, i think guilt should be the investigators who missed this oppurtunity

[@veganandlovingit]

I don't I am sick of people who don't do their jobs properly. You get a message machine you make sure that the right name is on the message. That is 2 mistakes. Phoning the wrong number and not making sure the message is from the correct person.

[@kelsielovesbbu]

i hope the cops investigated that person just in case, as not being in connection/doing it on purpose, so far i think it makes the most sense that a teacher from school did this.

[@seanb4338]

Been without internet for 3 weeks, and just as the withdrawals were subsiding I'm back slamming some uncut Dr. Grande into my veins. No regrets!

[@RichardTasgal]

Talking about realistic books about killers: I'd like to hear an analysis of Crime and Punishment, using what we have learned in the past 150 years about human psychology. Not only Raskolnikov, but also many of the minor characters.

[@angelarose9761]

Yes great idea

[@trace9657]

This would be outstanding. It would have to be a long video though, or maybe a two part.

[@Glassandcandy]

That would be great. Id also love to see him deconstruct the characters from Urasawa’s series “Monster” especially Johan and Grimmer. Actually there are tons of books I’d love to hear his analysis of: the sound and the fury (especially about Quinton Compson and Caddy’s relationship), Hamlet, A confederacy of Dunces (really only Ignatius here, but it would be a funny video no doubt), watchmen, Ulysses, and many many others. I think this could be an entire new avenue of content worth exploring; deconstructing and analyzing famous and well written characters from various media. I know he’s done for a few characters before, but literary characters give much more to work with as compared to tv and film. Could be really interesting

[@RichardTasgal]

@@trace9657 Two parts would barely scratch the surface. Raskolnikov alone would be good for more than one episode. Svidrigailov could have his own episode, even though he is an embodiment of an idea and not 100% believable, although close. An episode on Petrovich, about police investigations, though I have doubts about how realistic that was -- Petrovich is an almost unbelievably astute psychologist. A episode on other characters for their reactions to the crime and the criminal(s). One on Marmeladov, for addiction to alcohol. And this is not even touching on the philosophical debates in the book.

[@fatgreta1066]

Not evidencing distress is not a contra-indication of suicidal intent. It’s not terribly uncommon for someone who decides to make an attempt to be relieved and appear unusually happy prior to the attempt. I also wonder if the canal was dredged or searched?

[@dr2stroke611]

canal?

[@fatgreta1066]

@@dr2stroke611 it’s been a while but is t there a canal he walks by in this story?

[@dr2stroke611]

@@fatgreta1066 its just not clear in the video on which canal it is.

[@marroquincris]

Dr Grande, real feeling that shirt. Doctor & fashion influencer.

[@laurenvega-cruz4718]

I love men in pink. Seriously, very cool

[@ScottishLad66]

Congrats on the book Dr. Grande! It sounds interesting, and knowing how hard you work to be concise, creative, educational and informative, I'm sure it'll be a great read!

[@schrecksekunde2118]

"socialising restricted to school" sounds horrible

[@sarahalbers5555]

Great analysis and great shirt. Poor little guy, this must be hell for the family. Amazing intellect, maybe not socially aware. I have family in Yorkshire, it is typically a beautiful, low crime area.

[@personalcheeses8073]

Yorkshire is a big place with places of low, high and intermediate crime

[@sheilagravely5621]

I think the police should be checking out that last camp he went to. Someone there knows and was most probably involved.

[@sarahalbers5555]

@@personalcheeses8073 I know you are right, I haven't been there for a long time. But my dad has a memorial bench and plaque there so I look on the positive side, I miss him so much.

[@haltdieklappe7972]

Yorkshire? Isn’t that where all the grooming gangs are?

[@madwatermelon1316]

Doncaster isn't a low crime area. It's quite rough. Especially where Andrews family lived in Balby.

[@64HomeMade]

Interesting that he had been watching the news with his father when Madeline McCain went missing and he agreed when his father had said how devastating it must be for parents to lose a child, then 2 weeks or so he disappears.

[@nmartin5551]

I can think a 14 yo boy would have no ability to think he was a potential victim of kidnapping, given that Madeleine was so young.

[@Garycarlyle]

I think I saw him in London once years ago. Reported the possible sighting to the police. The guy looked very similar just older. Also soon as he saw me staring he practically ran.

[@maria-melek]

That's creepy. If he's still alive and well I have a feeling he doesn't want to be found. But why?

[@bucktooth002]

If your forced to go to school where you get beaten everyday. I would not want to be found either. If I was smart enough back then as him I would've dissapeared as well.

[@despairdoll]

did anything come of it?

[@despairdoll]

@@maria-melek if he's still alive and doesn't want to be found it might be bc he feels too ashamed to come home out of fear his family will resent him for disappearing for so long, or he could be trapped in an abusive situation that makes it hard or near impossible to leave :/ i've always suspected the latter but no matter what it is i hope he can be found alive and safe someday

[@Garycarlyle]

@@despairdoll They dont tell the person making the sighting report that. Hope he is alright.

[@stevemitchell3601]

What a heartbreaking situation, I pray that somehow Andrew is alive and well. I cannot imagine the pain and grief his parents have endured.

[@FLOSSYTREADWELL]

He went to a university for 2 weeks on a school trip and apparently came back very animated and completely different. It makes sense that he met someone there & communicated with them while at school to make these plans. Because it was a school event they met on they would perhaps be able to communicate while in school.

[@EmeraldView]

That seems a good possibility. Hopefully they had and still have a wonderful relationship together. If his partner was older (over 18) then they would both know that given the f'd up laws we have about such things that will destroy the older person (with little care for the younger person's feelings or opinions), then Andrew will likely never come forward in the interest of protecting his partner.

[@FLOSSYTREADWELL]

@@EmeraldView Well much stranger things have happened. I hope he IS ok and as opposed from lured away from safety, went willingly, though illegally, into a relationship with someone he just clicked with. It's not something we can condone because most juveniles are deemed not ready to make such decisions nor do they have the ability to know when they're being fooled... Even the older person encouraging the illegal act may be so enraptured by the relationship it could be hard for them to be lawful. Besides, as young teens we can be very persuasive with older people we set our sights on. We can convince them that whether they want us to or not we're going to come to them so... Whatever occurs, if a meeting WAS arranged with an older person , then they would still be legally responsible & have to pay for it no matter how long had passed. So yes, this would mean them reluctant to ever emerge as you state. All in all we do have to understand that laws must have a basic structure and remember that behaviours plus statistics are taken into consideration. Young people can give up everything, their family, their home & very importantly their education in peer groups for a fleeting infatuation. They are so inexperienced & so unaware that their feelings can change very quickly. This is much more common than these relationships being deep lasting soul partner type who only have eyes for each other. However, convincing infatuated first time loves of this would be near impossible.

[@EmeraldView]

@@FLOSSYTREADWELL Such is life in relationships and we should do more to prepare people for what such relationships can be like. We ignore teaching these things to kids. But as far as I'm concerned I want to increase happiness and minimize harm for all, and any law that fails to do that and puts the LAW above the people involved is a bad law, or at least a very bad implementation of the law. Let's say Andrew and an older partner hit it off, were in love with one another, and wanted their relationship together. Would they be ABLE to and have Andrew maintain ties with his family and life? No, they'd want to tear them apart and legally severely threaten the person he loves... and so he's forced to leave. So instead of him being advised and guided by other truly caring adults who could look over and watch their relationship for problems (manipulation, abuse, coercion) and ensuring maximal happiness, he can't have that. As for the older partner, I'd want to know, does that person truly love Andrew (you can tell by the way they would treat and interact with him - although yes that person is at risk of having their heart broken - since as noted teens can be fickle and also manipulative). Should the older partner bow out and say "No, we can't be together because of the law, and you can't leave your life behind?" Perhaps, but you try that when you're madly in love with someone. Nothing else matters, no matter how old you are. If we as a society just let people be who they are so long as nobody is legitimately being hurt, then we could solve a lot of our problems.

[@FLOSSYTREADWELL]

@@EmeraldView I hear you and in some cases this would be right but in others it would not. Imagine that society just let people be who they are without anyone getting hurt is actually the goal aimed for right now I believe. Parents have a right to raise their children, through their childhood & education up until they are of an age considered where they can also make decisions where they consider others too. Unless they are proven to have a negative effect on their children's lives. We must protect children same as we protect those with limited abilities & skills. Imagine if Andrew was meeting a female & they brought a child into the world. Nobody there to ensure the mother gave the fetus good nutrition. There has to be reasonable age reached before we can assume a person responsible enough to manage life and decisions out in the world. We see so many cases of young people being taken advantage of, hence all the decades later lawsuits. Many of these suing went along with everything at the time & probably more than willingly. Now those older partners are paying heavy prices of ruin & custodial sentences. I myself could have had at least 2 of my old school friends fathers ruined & probably imprisoned. The attention greatly shocked me at 12 - 13 but I was also flattered and excited as I was growing into a pubescent female. So I understand it is something which is very common for young people. As soon as my son was reaching a relevant age I convinced him that emotional relationships at his age could & probably would wreck his education. The pain involved in these relationships are not conducive to getting your head down and absorbing all you need to in school & university. His school before 6th form was all boys & he being heterosexual had no distractions. There was someone he liked in 6th form but she was taken so his little group stuck together and that got him through those two years. He never met anyone in both his uni degrees and stayed single until 21. He's now married with a daughter to his second serious girlfriend. So I don't believe relationships at a very young age are a great idea. If we want to raise children we should, at least, be able to earn enough to raise them to have the best we can do. To be honest when we look at Andrews face at the age he was when he left his home, well he looked very young. To imagine an older person & him engaging in sex does not seem acceptable to be honest Em.

[@Sutho81]

That is exactly right. A school setting is the only place a child could talk to an adult in person who it would also be inappropriate to have electronic communications with.

[@Queen-of-Swords]

I think it likely he met someone he liked at that event for gifted kids and went off to meet him. Quite possibly he was not interested in the future that had been neatly mapped out for him by everyone else.

[@thatamychic3517]

Sound like you might know him or his situation quite well.

[@Janellabelle]

Queen of Swords is my favorite card.

[@markcyphus3292]

That’s what I’ve always thought

[@ziggylaurie2268]

@@thatamychic3517 I think so too…

[@mathildes8583]

I see posters of him everywhere, and his picture is broadcast in theatre releases of Muse concerts because he was a Muse fan, just in case he's there... I cannot imagine he's still alive, or at least living a normal life, to be honest. He couldn't just go around never seeing an ophtalmologist ever again, or anyone else recognizing him

[@angelagreen3642]

I hope he's found. 🥺💔 and your voice is immensely calming.

[@g.willikers465]

Congratulations on the new book. Your description on the writing process is very relatable. As regards the people who come out with a new book every few weeks, those are generally very formulaic stories. The formula means they write an initial book then the others after are basically the same book over and over again with a few details changed. It’s more like a serial than a new and different book each time.

[@ThomasfromDenmark1]

This is one of the unsolved mysteries, where I would really like to know what happened.

[@thejudgmentalcat]

Poor kid, I'm sure something bad happened to him. I'd like to say hello to sombrero cactus and purple cactus. Welcome to Dr. Grande's cactus community!❤🌵

[@j.jwhitty5861]

I ran away from home the same age from Ireland to London (with no money whatsoever) and survived, with his high IQ could easily disappear by choice, anyhow; leaving aside the cactus do you think the lampshade is made from human flesh :))

[@ScumfuckMcDoucheface]

@@j.jwhitty5861 I've always wanted one of those.. it would be suuuper cool if it was legal and more widely known/accepted so that in the tattoo community there could be a pool/culture/group of people willing and able to put in legal terms of their will that their ink should be removed and preserved and then possibly used in various forms of art and appolstery... I've always thought that it was a shame that some of these pieces of beautiful tattooing just rots away in the grave... though on the other hand the same thing adds something beautiful and poetic about it that the art is fleeting and is impermanent.... haha anyway sorry for the ramble, I've just thought about this for some time obviously =)

[@j.jwhitty5861]

@@ScumfuckMcDoucheface My reference to the lampshade was an 'off the cuff' somewhat inappropriate remark in fairness. I honestly think the use of the dead's skin as a material for whatever use will always be frowned upon by society thanks to the evil done by the Nazis and will forever exist in the human psychic as demonic. I have seen some amazing artwork done by artists using chalk on footpaths which will inevitability fade away and I feel tattoos on humans should also beyond the grave.

[@ScumfuckMcDoucheface]

@@j.jwhitty5861 yeeeah I knoooow... god damn nazis, ruining everything for everyone, again, as always... =/

[@JustDr.S]

@@ScumfuckMcDoucheface You could always take pictures of tattoos you like. With the tattooed one's permission. I've done that. I wouldn't want anything to do with removing skin. Not at all.

[@Geebopgrabup]

That was the humblest "oh btw I wrote a novel" humblebrag ever.

[@Briana12906]

This story is chilling! It’s the first time I’m hearing of this case. By him taking out $200, it sounds like he had a specific plan to do _something,_ but what? The fact that he had zero online search history is really odd to me. Nothing? And his changing behavior leading up to his disappearance is really odd. If someone was grooming him and convincing him to leave, this would’ve had to be someone he met in person correct? Being that police found zero evidence that he was talking to anyone digitally. It’s horrifying that he may have been meeting up with someone that no one else knew anything about or had even seen. If someone is involved it’s a total and utter mystery. I don’t see this one ever being solved.

[@OtDawn]

And taking the game console.

[@EmeraldView]

Maybe he of his own free will and volition met, fell for, and left for an older lover and they're still living happily together? You don't need to do anything to 'convince' a 14 year old to do something they want to do. They're going to do it whether Bri or anyone else likes it or not.

[@ButterBallTheOpossum]

He doesn't look 2 years younger than 14. He looks like a godamn 8 year old!

[@dpayO2]

In the most recent pictures he does look like a young 14 year old, if that makes sense.

[@vinodchauhan8304]

Yes he looks about 10

[@JangoBlader]

he looks at minimum 10 years old not 8

[@bushlovesska]

Ya and people wonder why he was bullied

[@32446]

I don’t live too far away from where Andrew lived. This case has always haunted me. His poor family. I hope that one day they will have answers.

[@asmr_nostalgia]

I went to high school with a still missing boy- Lee Cutler. I’d really appreciate your thoughts on that disappearance. Thanks Dr. G

[@Maw0]

Did you have a personal connection to him? Or were you just aquatints?

[@PlsWaLuigiDomMe]

If Andrew was alive I doubt he wouldn’t be noticed. I really doubt he’s still alive as his likelihood seems so unlikely. I honestly wonder what parents can do to prevent something like this

[@l.w.paradis2108]

In the US, in rare cases, very young women have been held captive for long periods.

[@matheus_ooliv]

I think he was bored and sad became a homeless man somewhere or just commited suicide.

[@emizerri]

@@matheus_ooliv children don't just become homeless in the UK. The police would spot him.

[@woadxqueen666]

@@emizerri oof they do here in California

[@roseangelo4416]

I think he is alive. You can see my reasoning in my post upthread if interested in my theory.

[@Joanna7428]

God I remember Andrew, I have wondered through the years what happened to him, he is close in age to my oldest son, it's so sad, he just disappeared - I can't imagine what his family are still going through, he was so gifted in his maths subjects as you say, I would love to think he is ok - I so wish his parents had the answers.

[@EmeraldView]

If Andrew is still alive (hopefully) then there has to be a reason he's not revealed his status or whereabouts to his parents.

[@Pengochan]

2:22 That break from routine, walking instead of taking the bus, could be motivated by trying to avoid someone he'd meet on the bus, or to be with someone at least part of the way. It could also be a made up excuse for time spent with someone or at activities he tried to conceal from his parents (and he just rode a later bus or was brought most of the way home in a car by someone. Such changes in routine usually don't happen without some motive, possibly benign, but in this case, due to the timing before the disappearance, suspicious.

[@pembrokelove]

I came back to rewatch on account of the recent updates. I don’t believe they’ll ever find him, and I wonder if the answers they find will make things easier or harder for his family. His father has said as much about the new developments, as it changes the presumptive narrative of him dying immediately after disappearing, but rather that he lived for some length of time in trafficking. Such an awful thing to happen to such a young, naive boy.

[@rejaneoliveira5019]

Thank you for talking about your new book. I already pre-ordered from Amazon, can’t wait to read it!💞📖

[@elinoirsmythe224]

Thank you for covering this case. I always vacillate back and forth on this one about what I think truly happened. In my heart I hope Andrew is alive and well out there somewhere but using my head I know that is pretty unlikely. The fact that he has never been spotted on cctv, never been recognised by someone, bank account never touched, I don't think he is alive, sadly. As for what did happen, I'm inclined to think that someone nefarious was grooming him and lured him to London on false pretences, then did something awful to him when he got there. People act like technology is the be-all-and-end-all, but remember in 2007 most people in the UK didn't have broadband yet, Facebook wasn't publicly available yet, iPhones had only been released that year so few ordinary folk had one - it was a whole different landscape. I think it's perfectly feasible that he interacted with the perpetrator the old-fashioned way and so there was no digital evidence to find. Unfortunately I think that is the most likely explanation. I don't put much stock in the suicide theory, although I wouldn't rule it out... I think it's naive to say he wasn't being bullied because unfortunately loads of kids get bullied, and what was with the walking home those times? Avoiding bullies on the bus, perhaps? Idk. Being bullied could explain why he would be drawn to an adult who wanted to spoil him and didn't realise it was creepy. I think the train ticket is a red herring (when I was a teenager I often bought the wrong tickets just because I was dumb and a teenager - I don't think there's anything more to it than that) and why would you go all the way to London to commit suicide? I'd say suicide was the least likely scenario. It's possible that he went there of his own accord, for museums, concert or whatever and fully intended to come back, but then something awful happened purely by bad luck. I would say that's my second most likely theory. I really hope we find out one way or other some day, because his poor family must be so devastated not knowing... when I discussed this case with my mum, I told her that if I ever go missing without trace, she mustn't stop looking for me because it must be foul play. I wouldn't do that to my loved ones, I just couldn't... anyway, I'm rambling. Thanks for the vid, Dr Todd!

[@stacierocke6830]

i agree well put

[@LancetFencing]

forgetting a charger is something i do al, the time i don’t think that points to andrew intending to return.

[@carenmiller-lazarz229]

Loved reading your book, Dr. Todd. Love hearing your comments about real stuff. And again, love the pink shirt.

[@jessicasmith701]

Just found your video after the breaking news that two men were arrested in connection with Andrew. Such a great breakdown and speculation about what happened. I pray 2022 is the year his parents get answers !

[@mikethepsych2084]

I remember this one. This was local to me. The local authorities still put his picture on large missing persons billboards to this day.

[@ausgamecollector]

1:10 “It appeared as though Andrew had an exceptional mathematical ability and was actually somewhat bored in school… This is common for people who are really good at math.” - Dr Grande, straight dropping anecdotal knowledge 😂

[@TheBerkeleyBeauty]

What makes you think it’s anecdotal?

[@danstewart2770]

The theory that Andrew went to London to visit museums seems unlikely.

[@roseangelo4416]

Especially since he didn't buy the return ticket. This was no lark; he was escaping something

[@dappadappz9374]

@@roseangelo4416 Bullys maybe kept stealing his mobile phones? Seems strange that someone so intelligent kept loosing his phone so frequently

[@roseangelo4416]

@@dappadappz9374 entirely possible. I think much has been overlooked in this case. I see all sorts of warning signs, most especially his defection from church and scouts in the months adjacent to his abrupt departure.

[@dappadappz9374]

@@roseangelo4416 I also find it very strange that in the most Heavily CCTV'd city in the world, that there was only the brief bit of footage of him leaving the train station?! They've definitely missed something there.. and I agree with Dr.Grandes favourite theory, there was clearly an external influence from somebody unknown that gave him the motivation.. I 100% believe that Andrew intended to go back home that same Day

[@ruth98]

@@dappadappz9374 police left it too late to request cctv footage. So any more potential footage of Andrew was recorded over sadly

[@aliensporebomb]

New information came to light in this case just this week. “On 11 January 2022, it was reported that two men, aged 38 and 45, had been arrested and subsequently released under investigation on suspicion of kidnap and human trafficking in relation to Gosden's disappearance, with the older man also being arrested on suspicion of possessing indecent images of children.” If he is still alive, he is an adult today. Where is he?

[@heartscreations]

Just came across this video about Andrew Gosden and as a Mother of a son , I always was scared that something like this would happen to my child. Thank God it didn't. So many years have past since him missing and has anyone even think, maybe he was taken or moved to the states? I just pray he's alive and by some miracle he will return home.