The Meaning of Anti-Work

[@NicholasBlack]

Watching this during work instead of doing what I’m supposed to is anti-work praxis.

[@Voidsworn]

I do that and play games on my phone as often as possible while at work :)

[@hectorvega621]

I try to do that at work, but I'm the only one people get service from. Mostly because my boss doesn't want to hire more for night shift.

[@AnarchoPurp]

Same, I got paid to watch this lol

[@Voidsworn]

@@hectorvega621 eh, I'm kinda lucky as I work with three other techs + boss and where we are at? Yeah, he likely wouldn't be able to find a replacement easily.

[@hectorvega621]

@@Voidsworn I'm thinking of leaving my job soon. Sadly I am terrible at looking for a job. However he wouldn't probably want to lose me given that I come early and leave late unlike the other night shift coworker I have.

[@SJKlapecki]

something that really drew me to the concept of "antiwork" is that when I think about all the most productive, most valuable, or most enriching labour I've done in my life: writing, making videos, growing food, helping neighbors put up roofs and fences, I think back and it's just in a totally distinct category from "work." Yeah, I called it work, I called it hard work, and my muscles, bones, and tendons ached, or I felt frustrated and tired because I had stayed up to 5 am editing, but I didn't dread it or think negatively. I laughed and joked with the others, drank a few beers, discussed stuff I was excited about, etc. I became staunchly anti-work because I discovered labor outside the strictly capitalist mode of shifts and strict rules and busywork, labor that was fulfilling, fun, interesting, and made me feel GOOD.

[@musicdev]

Not only that, but much of the things we actually call 'work' literally hurt humanity. We HAVE to pay people to do it. Think of the financiers on Wall Street, the software devs that built the big tech hellscape that we exist in today, police officers, corporate lawyers, the list goes. Much of the work that is actually helpful to humanity seems to be the most poorly paid work. Garbage collection, teachers, parenting, scientists, etc. Basically, if you're not involved in extracting insane amounts of wealth from other people or countries, or turning our modern world into a dystopian nightmare, you're not compensated well. This is what got me rethinking the concept of work

[@thekingoffailure9967]

@@musicdev The more WORK it is, the more WORSE it is.

[@ricos1497]

@@musicdev I don't think garbage collection is helpful to humanity, and scientists' helpfulness is entirely a function of subject matter. Otherwise I agree! I don't mean to be argumentative, just to explain, I'm getting at the fact that we need to consider absolutely everything. We should really live in a world where garbage collection doesn't exist. Where even human waste is dealt with at source (and I don't mean doing it in an envelope and posting to a politician..... Or do I?). When we boil it down there are very few jobs that should be actual jobs (doctors). There are certainly tasks that need done and skills that need learned, but I believe that those should be universal rather than siloed into careers. I should know how my house is built, how to service any appliances, fix my bike, how to compost and cook, what to plant and what to pick, how to nurse others and myself and how to bury someone (once their dead of course, I'm not a maniac!). The skills of living should be taught to all. The opposite is true today. Everything is abstracted: food comes from the supermarket; furniture comes from the IKEA; heating comes from the oil rig, to the refinery, to the tanker, to the pipeline, to the house; water from fuck knows where, with my shit returning as payment. We're domesticated animals.

[@ConvincingPeople]

@@ricos1497 "Is" is not "ought." As it stands, people who will process destroyed or degraded materials are contributing a service in our current context. That being said, I do believe a radical overhaul of how we perceive of waste disposal to be a necessary part of the antiwork project… buuuut I don't really buy that the idea that we should forsake indoor plumbing because it makes us "domesticated animals." I hate to put it this way, but it kind of plays into every stereotype people have of primitivists as weird, smelly, out-of-touch survivalists who not-so-quietly hold disabled people (and, to a lesser extent, transgender folks seeking medical treatment) in seething contempt or stony indifference.

[@ricos1497]

@@ConvincingPeople I didn't suggest we should forsake indoor plumbing. Merely that we're disconnected (not literally!) from it. It's all done for us. If my village had to suddenly fend for itself because Russia (convenient enemy!) took over the nearby city's waterworks, we'd be up to our knees in it. It's abstracted from us and sold back to us as a service. I don't even have the option of a compost toilet and rain water harvesting due to planning regulations where I live.

[@ForeignManinaForeignLand]

Idk bout y'all but if I worked at a restaurant with a disembodied yellow head with a Trinidadian accent, I would hate work as well 😅 lovely video, my Caribbean bredren. Nice instrumental accompaniment btw.

[@ricos1497]

What accent do you prefer in a disembodied yellow head?

[@pinkandblack9429]

@@ricos1497 New Zealand English would be best, but Australian if that's not an option.

[@ricos1497]

@@pinkandblack9429 I can't think of a single reason why a disembodied yellow head wouldn't be available in New Zealand English. Probably refusing to work I guess.

[@channelname1019]

Surrounded by Australian accents right now, the disembodied Trinidadian bobbing head kitchen actually sounds like a dream job

[@channelname1019]

I'd still hate work

[@TheXFireball]

Looking for work made me more and more anti-work. Currently down on my luck and living with my parents and they go on and on about me working. I trying to enjoy my time while job hunting but I get shamed for "wasting my time". I am already mentally drained from work without currently working. I do not like being threatened with homeless everyday if me and pops have a disagreement and being called "lazy" for saying the system shouldn't be this way and how the system is mentally taxing. Unlike my father I do not dream of work, I do not want my life to surrounded by work, I want our concept of "work" to die.

[@TheXFireball]

@@Drivingnord you clearly misrepresented me and my position. It is pretty fucking obvious you need to work under Captialism. I am a UCL alumni with a STEM background and I am still finding hard to get work. You clearly missed the point spreading this individual bullshit so for my own sanity I will no longer respond to you.

[@ConvincingPeople]

@@Drivingnord This reeks of apologia for the status quo, as if it were the natural state of the world and a good and just thing. It also suggests that you did not bother to watch the video which you are trawling through the responses of to deride people for their ostensible privilege. For instance: Speaking as a person with chronic physical and mental health problems, conventional work is not an option for me, and I live in relative poverty both as a consequence of this and that the people who I rely upon for survival are not in themselves well-off or necessarily able-bodied; but while this greatly contributes to my opposition to work as a construct-I like not dying!-my views are more nuanced than a matter of pure self-preservation, and certainly have little to do with being in a position of privilege.

[@Gypsyqueen246]

@@TheXFireball Proud of you 👏🏾

[@ConvincingPeople]

@@Drivingnord That's… not what anti/post-work is. It's the argument that our society should move beyond forcing people to labour for currency to survive or engage with society. You seem to conceive of this philosophical position as inherently juvenile because you have a sibling who you saw as taking advantage of those around them and thus conflate being opposed to work as a societal construct with having the privilege not to do work. To the contrary, a lot of the animus against work-not "doing productive things," which is great and necessary, obviously, but the societal framework of work-comes from people who have done quite a lot of work, or as noted, cannot work and have suffered because of it. What we're saying is, a welfare state is insufficient. It's not liberation, which anti/post-work seeks; it's a Band-Aid for how fucked the system is to its core. You're essentially responding to deep structural critique with, "But have privilege, therefore your critiques are invalid," plus a weird vaguely liberal version of the "but why do the poors have big-screen TVs?" nonsense conservatives always trot out with the commune stuff.

[@lot110]

@@Drivingnord Dude you miss the point. And if doctors jobs can be automated so can nursing jobs.

[@toppersundquist]

I was raised to ignore all of my 'silly hobbies' and get a JOB that could become a CAREER so I could buy a HOUSE, and then I could do my 'silly hobbies' once all that was out of the way. Starting to think that being raised by a cop who was himself raised on a farm might have instilled me with some skewed biases.

[@wildernessisland2573]

Someone (maybe it was a teacher) said to me, when I was a kid, to always question whatever hurts your soul. I was radicalized in that moment

[@slimetank394]

Hope you can break the cycle

[@toppersundquist]

@@slimetank394 Working on it!

[@Sandvichman.]

@@wildernessisland2573 i love that quote

[@GreyOatmeal]

That is too funny! My mom was served the same thing and her father had the same upbringing, patterns patterns... haha

[@ernststravoblofeld]

"Work creates poverty." That hit hard. I'm sure I knew this deep down, but I never just straight up had the thought in the front of my mind before. Thanks for that insight.

[@ThrottleKitty]

Work is like exercise. It can be deeply satisfying, rewarding, and motivating. Until your forced to do the same exercise routine every day, 10 hours a day, 6 days a week for 45 years. Then your just being paid crumbs to waste all of your time destroying your mind and body so you don't have the energy to resist oppression.

[@kingkazuma2239]

There's a thing called time off

[@ThrottleKitty]

@@kingkazuma2239 There's also this thing called a sky! I don't know if you've ever seen but like

[@skyblazeeterno]

​@@kingkazuma2239yes but that's based on the concept that you will be a better worker once you come back

[@surgeland9084]

I feel strongly that once we have a society where people do things for one another for the collective benefit rather than to survive, we'll be better off.

[@yourdedcat-qr7ln]

Start a commune brother

[@surgeland9084]

@@yourdedcat-qr7ln Not too far off of what my life goals are, actually. I'm Métis nationalist, so my people's autonomy, sovereignty, and liberty from the fascist Canadian state are the priority. But yeah, you'd always welcome there along with anyone else who will help in the anti-colonial struggle. Also, my grandpa passed on Friday and he is the one who inspired me to follow this goal. Just a neat little coincidence lol.

[@surgeland9084]

@@rdm3373 Well, not with that attitude.

[@surgeland9084]

@@rdm3373 As long as you see it as a fantasy, you will be trapped in the present condition. That is your right, I suppose.

[@andrewsnider7229]

That's the marker of a healthy society.

[@kathunter2130]

I have c-ptsd and when I lost my job during the pandemic here in the US my partner and I decided we could get by on one salary and I didn’t look for another. The drastic increase in my mental health was immediate and unavoidable. The combination of this experience and my growing class consciousness is what has really informed my exploration of Anarchism as a utopic ideal and as praxis.

[@jadie1272]

I too have C-PTSD from childhood shenanigans. and HOLY. SHIT my life drastically improved when the pandemic hit. I thought I was the only happy person at the time. the pandemic is super sad that it happened but it had a profoundly positive impact on my mental health. since then I've struggled even more before the pandemic to hold down a job. I'm fueled by injustice though and my protectors are definitely ready to start protesting and rioting or whatever it's going to take for people to pursue their own life goals. everyone will be a whole lot happier in the end. fuck America and capitalism. I want to burn it all down to the ground. literally and metaphorically

[@yourdedcat-qr7ln]

Start a commune?

[@alexandraestre1731]

We dont want to start anything cause at our core as humans we need to understand that in our biology we dont care about strangers. If u dig deep ull see its the truth. And the only truth is that we have evil in us. The farther we stray away from this truth. The more we'll suffer. Thus the pervasiveness of mental illness. Cause we can't act on these natural thoughts and frustration.

[@alkihistoriker]

As someone who loves researching labor history, I hope that one day "work" is relegated to the ash heap of history. I also love the term "Post-work". When people see the term "anti-work", they assume we have no plan for a future without "work". Post-work shows that we do have a plan for a world without work . . . and distances us from r/antiwork, too. lol Great video as always! I'm happy that I could be a part of it!

[@goldenfluidart]

I like post-work better too. I think anti-work enables arguments without taking time to understand what it means, seeing the term 'work' is colloquially synonymous with 'labour'. Like being dismissed as lazy and wishful thinking, like nobody would ever do anything again and the world would fall apart

[@TheSuperRatt]

Language is a weapon, same as any other. They will use it against us, no matter what terminology we use. "Work-Reform." "Post-Work." "Anti-Work." Are all equally detestable to the capitalists, ruling elite and moderate fence-sitters. Part of their strategy is to get us to bicker amongst ourselves about what words we'll use, wasting all our time on presenting a message that's been sterilized to the point it's lost all meaning and energy...

[@phr3ui559]

dumb

[@presentlycrescent]

I yearn for the day when people don't have to "earn" the right to live. We are here and we never asked to be. We exist and therefore have a right to life. "Earning" that is just... I mean, it truly shows that they have stolen our lives. We had a right to live and they took it from us, and then they tell us to "earn" it back.

[@jadie1272]

Gesh this commet makes my blood boil..... WE NEED TO START PROTESTING. HARD.

[@Sandvichman.]

@Calm Mango your mother

[@zetanone7211]

Asking for us to “earn” our right to live and be happy is absurd, it’s acting like they (the elites) have anything to do with our existence. But no, nature is why we exist, and we sure don’t treat it very well. You should do things because you want to do them, not because there’s some threat hanging over your head.

[@kwijebo]

lets talk antinatalism

[@user-ej5gx7ph7q]

Then let's make it do, you are not alone... A new day is on the way, as soon as we decide we are finished with this obsolete one

[@storyspren]

I've already previously hated the phrase "hard work never killed anyone" because of how obviously false it is. I hadn't even considered most of the connections listed here, just the direct exhaustion and workplace accidents. And in the same vein with not considering those, my opinion on anti-work before this video was "sounds good but needs automation to actually happen." I was just conflating work with labor it seems. This video cleared that up for me, and it does so much more too.

[@okimura690]

Pre-colonized Hawaiians would only work from sunrise to around 9am, then they would just play and chill the rest of the day. It's where the "lazy Hawaiians" stereotype comes from.

[@melelconquistador]

Blessed the Hawaiians were.

[@pamsunshine9233]

How dare you hawaiians....rest? In the eyes of the colons you are either a slave or death....noone but the colon is worthy of rest

[@melelconquistador]

@@pamsunshine9233 Smelly colons.

[@GaigeGrosskreutzGunClub]

based

[@toddmaek5436]

They were smart.

[@camillajefferson386]

omg and you mention the cost of time and how it's non refundable. the cost of our potential... the "incentivising innovation" myth. presenting these mythologies is such a good way to frame antiwork. ah. this video is perfect, man. i've wanted to put together something like this for a long time (probably nowhere near as succinct and well put together as this) - antiwork is one of my primary radical interests - but haven't had the energy. so glad it's you who made this video, you nailed it.

[@camillajefferson386]

you talk about play!! this might be my new favourite youtube video.

[@camillajefferson386]

and ofc Bullshit Jobs was mentioned, it has to be, but i'm so glad it was. that was the concept that finally validated all the internal thoughts and feelings i'd had about work. the adverts on the london underground were finally useful for something. really trying not to spam your comments section, i'm just so excited by this video's existence. you really nailed it. it's a resource, i keep skipping back and forward just to get more juice out of a statement. also love seeing how you've assembled this. while i've wanted to compile something similar for a long time, you've put it together in a different way that is giving me more to think about in things i already agree with and how they're connected up, and *that* is what i love most about this video.

[@camillajefferson386]

aaaaa you talk about the abolition of school too!!

[@ConvincingPeople]

I'm reminded, with respect to "incentivising innovation," of what Bob Black said about how every time a new labour-saving technology is introduced, rather than reduce the amount of work people do, that work becomes more mind-numbing and tedious. There is the common belief that automation will liberate us from the worst of labour, but considering this cycle, it's just as likely that it will simply create more and more of Graeber's bullshit jobs, or else prove the whole welfare system a mere Band-Aid on the deeper problem.

[@LITTLEMUSTANGFILLY]

My best friend and I finally hung out after forever. She works a ton. I’m in college and only working weekends. I told her about this this thing we should do and she told me she’s not crafty anymore, she’s lost it and honestly that made me genuinely sad. Work kills creativity. I’m grateful for what I do as a job as it kind of requires a certain level of creativity.

[@apollofateh324]

What kind of job do you have? :0

[@SebastianSeanCrow]

8:18 this is such an important point to bring up. I’m disabled because of work and my father went from being 6’4” to 6’2” due to work injuries ducking up his spine. I’ve heard some foot/leg doctors talk about how they’ve seen people from Kate teens to early 20s come in with foot/leg problems that typically wouldn’t be found in those under 50 naturally. Because of work.

[@camillajefferson386]

so glad you mentioned workerism. (as well as theft of the commons! hardly ever see that spoken about and it's at the core of so much.) workerism is one fundamental reason i call myself an anarchist, and not a communist - because growing up, so much of what i saw people talk about in relation to communism was the workers. and i didn't want to define myself by that. now, i know i couldn't anyway - i'm unable to work for various reasons, but even before realising i was disabled or neurodivergent, i would get burnt out almost immediately and any time i did have a job it felt like something in my soul was dying. a simple way i like to describe the dynamic of Work to people, which i don't think was covered in the first part, is that it holds our needs ransom. it breaks it down to the core of the dynamic. all humans have basic needs. we can meet them freely. (#foodisfree) but the systems that control those needs hold them ransom with tokens we can only get by working, or if we have the privilege to be born into a family with a hoard of tokens already, or our family had enough tokens that we could use some of them to extort others of their tokens. but that's the crux of it: our needs are held ransom in exchange for tokens we can only obtain through work. (and of course, that's not to say you didn't smash it. the next part of the analogy you did cover, which is that many of our tokens are withheld by those who extract them from work we've done.) still only 1/3 through, i just wanted to share this thought before i get engrossed in the rest of the video. great work as always.

[@ConvincingPeople]

I've noticed that the stronger that a state socialist fixates on workerism as a rhetorical device, the further their minds are from those who work as individuals deserving of autonomy and human dignity outside of their role as workers.

[@johnmaris1582]

No tree readily grow eatable fruit for you to enjoy. The 'common' you imagine doesn't exist. There is no paradise in subsistence living.

[@ZarHakkar]

How are you unable to work? Just curious, because your experience with the immediate burnout and "soul-dying" feeling is very familiar to me.

[@LowestofheDead]

@@johnmaris1582 Farmers used to be 80% of the US population. Now it's 0.5% - meaning 1 person can grow food for 200 people (actually more, because the US is a net exporter of food). We could automate that labor even more and share it between more people. Automation has more than doubled productivity in the last generation, and so we could've halved the time we need to work. Instead our bosses got twice as rich. Nothing is free and yet things get cheaper every day.

[@slimetank394]

@@johnmaris1582 fruits readily on the trees was literally how our our ancestors live for millions of years, for most of human existence, long before the "invention" of agriculture. It's literally how nature works. Ofc we also went hunting, hench the team "hunter and gatherer", yet the "labor" needed to hunt and gatherer was nowhere near the toll civilization are currently pushing onto humanity to keep the system running and benefits a selected fews.

[@DrAnarchy69]

Anti work is key in the disability liberation struggle. Disabled people are less able to commodify our labor for work. Work is violence and helps prop up ableist capitalism. Fantastic work as always comrade!

[@bootstraphan6204]

Absolutely yes!👍

[@meilee8554]

EXACTLY. as well as disabled people, it's also against the poor elderly who often face workplace abuse as well. There's this 74 year old woman who works with me and nearly half of my bitch ass coworkers bully her and make fun of her to her face. I've heard walmart actually pays elderly and disabled employees half or 1/⁸ of what they pay able young and bodied employees.

[@crazyrr144]

Cringe

[@Imagopher]

@@crazyrr144 what

[@jefrreyjeffery2192]

Ew comrade is a tankie term

[@boyinblue.]

"Work teaches responsibility" it definitely doesn't, it creates fear or a sense of guilt. I don't have a good work ethic I just don't want to lose my job, and i found myself feeling guilty calling off recently. Why should I feel guilty? Why is that what my mind immediately went to? This was a great video and very educational.

[@Gigamokin]

That's on you, not everyone has the same experience, most poeple do in fact become responsible.

[@sr.mental5876]

Work does teach responsibility, but today’s form of work is often a form of slavery which instigates fear and degenerates the spirit of work itself.

[@kaylaisnothere4397]

All I've learned from work culture is that people *will* manipulate you, people will guilt trip you, and if you stick to the corporate script you're either going to be a punching bag or the one throwing the punches unless you stand up for yourself. Younger coworkers catch so much flack for not "taking one for the team" because it's what the older ones are so used to.

[@thesleepyduck8368]

Youre telling me! Almost all of the people I’ve worked for are the least responsible people I’ve ever met.

[@skyblazeeterno]

​@@Gigamokinthere's absolutely no way of proving that claim

[@auramariarendon8986]

Here I am, without a paid job and don't wanting to sell the things I love to do and that I'm good at, because I'm afraid I'll end up hating them. That's just what happened with my last job. I started as a volunteer, very young, then I was hired to do those things I loved to do, but after some years things became to change, and now everything feels so alien to me

[@mopmopmopmopmopmop]

Anti-Work is slowly growing, good to see

[@marlenesamuels7864]

Thats why their economy disappear

[@kingkazuma2239]

Naw bad idea

[@potaterjim]

"if we didn't work, you wouldn't have phone." Use phone at work: "STOP USING THAT PHONE, do it on your own time" Go home, get call on phone: "I need you to come in"

[@fabiennevlcan-sparks7445]

It also bugs me when people say that for a few reasons. One being that I have many friends who genuinely enjoy inventing and making technology for fun. I know people who metal work for fun. A post-work society would enable them and the many people like them to create devices for communication for people on their own, and it would be done without the normalized child slave labor that currently produces phones. The other is that I don't even like having a phone. If I could, I would get rid of it. I do my best to rid myself of everything aside from communication - no more unnecessary apps or social media that we're told we need - but even still it's another thing that dominates my life and takes up time and I don't even enjoy it. I'm told by employers or classes that I have to download apps, I need to be constantly connected and on call because of the way our society commodifies people. That is to say, if not for this system of work, they're right, I wouldn't have a smartphone, and it's because I would no longer need one.

[@bkilleen2178]

I left work culture in 2007, when I left my job as production manager for a radio station, and went to full time self employment in the underground cannabis market. Over night I lost serious health issues; sciatica, neck issues, bowl problems of all types. It was a different experience. I was my sole employee for several years, and then brought in some friends as employees. I always strove to provide a safe and enriching environment, and was the best boss I could be. I was still a boss, and they were still employees. Given my druthers, I’d like another chance at it, but as a collective.

[@CybinTheMushroom]

So right now I'm 18, and my dad wants me to get a part time job, and I feel scared and I don't wanna go into a system that is made to prop a higharcay that focuses making my life and others lives miserable I just wanna travel the world find a community that I can be apart of so I can feel like I'm living the way I want. I love this video because it encapsulate my fears into something that makes sense and also gives solutions that I wan to act apon, especially mutual Aid an Idea where everyone is there for one and other not some individualistic chaotic rat race. Where you can take a breath with out the feeling of anxiety of work.

[@AnarchoPurp]

Trying to muster the energy to do the next work task, dozens of times a day, is completely soul-crushing. I hope some day the world gets rid of that altogether.

[@marlenesamuels7864]

You have to do that!

[@ChristopherBatson]

I'm fond of others establishing the language of their own movement. Your use of the term "Post-Work" is important, not just for your stated reasons, but in preemptively cutting off bad faith actors from framing your philosophy as anything than what it is.

[@sharkythegw7843]

6:14 Omg! As a fan of Thomas the Tank Engine, you're 100% right about how the characters almost fetishize work to a point. Being a hard worker and "really useful" is the main thing they care about in the show.

[@InventorZahran]

Yes, but we have to remember that those characters are TRAINS. They're not human (even though they might speak and have humanoid emotions), and their entire purpose is to do work and be useful. Besides, their boss is much more caring and respectful than many managers IRL.

[@user-gu9yq5sj7c]

I didn't think Thomas the train was about work but believing in yourself to do what you want.

[@user-gu9yq5sj7c]

@@InventorZahran Thomas the train is supposed to motivate kids to believe in themselves to do things. It did for me. Just like people relating to any kind of characters.

[@skyblazeeterno]

But they are limited to those rail tracks​@@user-gu9yq5sj7c

[@gittevandevelde2208]

As a 21 year old who is supposed to "get into the workforce" (which I try to avoid by one year by doing a 1-year specialisation course) all of...This is something I've been thinking about a lot.I would work in a creative, but very consumerist and capitalism-based field: fashion. I've loved pretty clothes and textile craftmanship since I was little, as well as the concept of self-expression through style. Seeing that any other field is limited to simply liking youtube videos on it, studying fashion was a no-brainer. Desk jobs would turn into monotony and boringness quickly (My mom has been doing something like that and has not followed her dreams when young due to circumstances and I can tell by her constant semi-depressed state, working from state holiday to state holiday and complaining every night about work) However, I've come to the conclusion I despise the way the majority of the fashion industry works. I wouldn't want to work in the average mass-wasting, mass-exploiting fashion company. A little company perhaps, but they still function on the same principles most of the time, just on a smaller scale. Having my own company would need a lot of luck and even if my principles of local low waste natural fiber production that is made-to-order doesn't inevitably succumb to the need to produce more and cheaper so I can break even because it's too expensive and people don't want to pay €500 for what I make, I would be doing nothing else but sew piece after piece after piece after piece after piece after piece for 14 hours a day to break even, the leftover 10 hours being filled with eating and sleeping. It speaks for itself I don't want to do _that_. What I actually want to do is create a unique on demand piece once in a while, get paid on money to go buy something with on the local market (such as new flax to spin and weave), or tasty food because I am exchanging skills with that person and they're the best cook in the village, when I don't have any of that to do, I randomly go help gathering in the local food forest or keep an eye on the little ones, again get " paid " by being shared food, skillsharing from others, a random pretty tiara because I happened to have kept an eye on the child of the local metalworker, etc. You know, small-scale local communal living with shared skills and experiences and I just happen to be the local person people go to if they need a pretty dress. And as opposed to what people would think, I wouldn't be "lazy" or "unproductive". I would be doing things! Making things! And possibly have a lot of time to expand my skills and crafts and explore the world because I am not being a ball of anxiety who wakes up with the thought "Shit, I am going to hate my life" and has to play candy crush for hours on end first to destress before I feel mentally ready to do things

[@apollofateh324]

I've seen people do similar stuff on Etsy, where everything is made as its ordered, and I've even seen some listings where the client sends in a design and they make it. You totally could do just bespoke clothing, and go into the fabric shops yourself and source everything sustainably. You could even get creative and thrift your fabrics: everything would be unique, because you might not ever have that same fabric again, plus it keeps clothing out of landfills. There's a challenge going around where you thrift curtains and see what you can make out of them, and there's some cool stuff out there. Also I feel you on the communal living part, I would much rather live in a community then have to make ends meet myself, especially in this hellscape. It would be cool to have people see the value in you as a person and what you specialize in, instead of another cog in the machine made to fill whatever the guys in charge want. I think we're getting there: the old system is collapsing, and we're on the precipice of something new. We don't know what it is yet as it's not fully formed, but a lot of people have similar ideas, it's just a matter of how we actualize them. The world will be very different in 20 years, because our values are very different. We feel powerless because we think we're alone, but look how many people viewed this video, or subscribed to this channel. We are many, and our time is coming :)

[@brookeh208]

This has been the disconnect I have with socialists and progressives. It’s the disconnect I have with entrepreneurship. We still aren’t free because it’s still forced we just suffer less. Thank you for your informative videos that also give a call to action.

[@Carmy0118]

Its not suffering if jts youre passion think about it

[@ConvincingPeople]

I'm really glad to see "The Abolition of Work" and antiwork more generally seeing something of a renaissance in the present moment. There's something sobering about the fact that that essay has only grown *more* relevant over the last four decades; the fact that it's a really engaging and, honestly, funny read helps a bit.

[@marlenesamuels7864]

Ancestors did enough

[@nataliejennings2620]

Oh my gosh I really appreciate the intellectually stimulating content and emotionally reassuring charisma and delivery that characterises your work on this channel. So happy to see a new video up from you! Really helping me get out of an anxious funk today :)

[@Zogerpogger]

Yes Andrewisms vocal cadence is brilliantly suited to this

[@Mjp19eighty7]

I have an interview for grad school on Saturday. It’s for an occupational therapy program. In this video, you said all the things that I hope to convey to my interviewers. I know the radical nature of these ideas can turn some people off, but, as a smarter person than I once said, “By striving to do the impossible, man has always achieved what is possible. Those who have cautiously done no more than they believed possible have never taken a single step forward”.

[@devinfaux6987]

With regards to automation, I see it as a difference of priority in what gets automated first. Under capitalism, the work which gets automated is that which it benefits the capitalist to automate. If the work is back-breaking for the worker but they can get away with paying poverty wages instead of paying for an expensive machine, they'll keep up the back-breaking labor for eternity. If the work is easy, satisfying to perform and pays well, but can be done cheaper by a machine, it'll get automated at the first opportunity. Instead, we could prioritize automating the work which is most burdensome or unpleasant to the worker. The situation above gets reversed: the back-breaking labor is automated, while the satisfying labor is retained. Let this process continue for long enough, and eventually the only work that will remain is that which the workers actually enjoy doing. The line between "work" and "hobby" or "play" will first blur, and then disappear entirely.

[@amazin7006]

this one comment was better and a more reasonable observation than the whole vid tbh

[@frankbrocker2963]

@@amazin7006 how so? all OP's comment really says is that automation should be used to make already existing jobs less laborious. it doesnt get rid of the inherent problems of capitalism at all, at most it dampens the problem a bit and if anything allows it to fester. even if workers in the hypothetical the comment poses found these versions of jobs "enjoyable", it is still a heavily coerced monotonous task being done on a strictly defined shift everyday for a paycheck, and people will still work in fear of not having a job, so the problem persists. then, this kind of work can be made justifiable by simply saying that it isnt as laborious as before, so the status quo is maintained and allowed to evolve under the pretense that: "at least you arent breaking your back anymore". removing labor isnt the only point of the idea, what is wanted is autonomy and satisfaction from the choice to help communities, both of which this hypothetical does not provide.

[@MsSoapify]

I think the concept “The McDonaldization” of society talks about this a lot!

[@CyranoForever101]

I'm a substitute teacher, and I'm supposed to be forcing the kids to work, but I often let them do what they want. They're gonna have 6 other periods of work, why not give them time to socialize, sleep, or get caught up in other classes? It also frees me up to enjoy my own day reading, playing video games, and watching shows on my phone, something I barely have time for after I get home.

[@toddmaek5436]

Noice

[@MOLLYLUNCHCO]

This is nice

[@skyblazeeterno]

The best teacher i never had

[@collyflower6623]

A lot of this video scares me, especially when you list all the jobs we could eliminate by abolishing work and its structures. It's easy to point to the classic bullshit jobs, but less easy to confront the sunk cost of our own efforts. Work constantly tries to justify its existence, and it's incredibly convincing when we think there's no other choice. I love that you not only dismantle a concept on your channel but also construct a world from the alternative. Looking forward to watching whatever you put out next!

[@camillajefferson386]

i was not disappointed, you nailed it. just became a patreon.

[@silversam]

"The cost of working is higher than the cost of living." All well said but that in particular jumped out. Also woohoo Foreign sighting! 😎

[@DeshkaArt]

I'd love to see a video dedicated to the therft of the commons and exploring all of that. I feel like you would do it so well!

[@Andrewism]

it's in the works!

[@cb_tattooing]

In a moment of anger I called my boss out for incompetence, but instead of writing me up for yelling at him a few days later he wrote me up for "riding the pallet jack like a skateboard"... I hate this hamster wheel

[@camillajefferson386]

aaaa! i'm so excited to see what you have to say on this topic. hoping i can bookmark this one to link to people as an explainer, there's so few actual antiwork resources on youtube currently.

[@rabidpinkbunny8915]

I'm putting together a whole playlist full of videos that do a great job of explaining issues with capitalism (and offering potential alternatives), so I can share it with the more left-leaning people in my life and hopefully radicalize some of them. Just added this video to it. :)

[@99jdave99]

Man, I vibe with this video so hard. I’m currently unemployed and living with my parents (a ~8 month long situation currently), and the first few months my mom (and to a lesser extent, my dad, though with less shit talking involved) was so adamant about work, listing and trying to push on me all the dogmatic things about work-worship you mentioned in this vid, with the classic “lazy/bum/etc.” insults thrown on. They always mention “I’m worried about your future,” and “what are you gonna do when we die?” (They’re oldish), but what I never feel comfortable enough to say to their face (because I’m a closeted anarcho communist, and they’re deep into conservative brain rot so fully listing my beliefs would probably get me kicked out of the house lol) is that, I don’t dream of a future of work (let alone a future so wildly different from the current one that planning more than a decade out feels totally senseless to me), and don’t want to work, ever. I have adhd and probably mild depression, plus a really bad case of DSPD, and just the thought of structured work gives me a stomach dropping feeling; like, I was fine with school mostly, since I managed to be lucky in various ways and didn’t hate it, but man, work just has me freezing at the mere thought. They’ve gotten much less forceful about it lately, but it makes me so frustrated sometimes that they are so work focused that the thought that I’m simply okay not working is an impossible and unacceptable thought to them, when me simply living and actually enjoying life is *well* within their means (they are comfortably upper middle class). I’d go further, but it’d be too ranty and start straying from the point of the video. I think this part was relevant enough though, to put down as first hand experience of how the dogmatism of work has negatively impacted my life, even extremely privileged as it is in many regards.

[@tomaszwota1465]

Dude. Get a job. Don't be a leech on your elderly parents.

[@PeterWarren1971]

Finding your own way includes moving out of your parents home and showing them how to live without needing to work. By relying on them for your day to day life basics your also relying on the results of your parents years of work, thus going against your own feelings and beliefs. Show them your way... A different way. 👍

[@thegreenpanda8301]

"The slave is sold once and for all; the proletarian must sell himself daily and hourly." - Frederick Engels

[@geoffdparsons]

yess i love you man you were the first person to really get these basic things in my head and you never stop stoking my fire. you do a great job bringing wild new ideas i’ve never heard which i appreciate so much, but your passion and speech+writing skills give the foundational ideas so much power. i love how you pulled so much together in this video, truly a radical liberation crash course

[@notaburneraccount]

"schools exist to create workers" - That one hurts. In high school, I didn't really have guidance at school or home. I did realize that school reform was something I cared about in my senior year, but couldn't figure out how to go beyond my introduction of protest. The college app requirements for graduating from high school (in Chicago Public School) were nothing more than that. No support or explanation on how to make the most out of college. I also got messages like "a degree will help you get out of the 'hood'". In college, I chose to study sociology after switching majors three times. That subject spoke my language and a lot of things clicked for me. However, almost all of my classes were theory based. Although I love theory, it didn't prepare me for post-grad. I did the assignments and all, but it just felt like the "prize" at the end of the road was a degree that supposedly would result in a job. It didn't, so I went to grad school hoping to gain practical experience. Instead, it was more theory with some practice. My mistake was going into a field where the ability to drive is often times required (home visits, traveling to different sites, transporting clients, etc.). The program likely was just not a good fit, and I didn't realize it in time. It just ended up draining my passion for social change. Sad, that even on my free time, I don't even have the energy or motivation to do, well, anything. All that aside, I enjoyed your video and strongly agree with your statements. It took me back to my sociology classes, lol.

[@ajecian6324]

This was an excellent video and it made me cry because of the situation I'm in right now (and have been for a while). You're brilliant.

[@BellamyJay]

I haven't finished Paya's video about the trauma of work yet, but I was really, really excited to see you mention unions in this. I may have a bit of a different position but their usefulness, even as a measure of abolition, is way overstated, imo. Unions, even those like the IWW, I do not believe are capable of abolishing work even if it is in their stated goals because the *function* they serve is ultimately to perpetuate work. Capitalism knows how to deal with unions, and while unions can and do definitely improve the lives of many people, they are not a tool of destroying capital. Capital either crushes your union, or it pays you and both of those options were always on the table. It just makes you work harder for the win that it could've always handed out in the first place.

[@wildernessisland2573]

These are such excellent points and have given me some stuff to think about concerning unions

[@EvanC881]

I remember the first time my therapist explained that some people may be afraid to cry because they have never been allowed to before and are therefore afraid that once they begin they will never stop (because they have never experienced crying to its natural completion). That hit me Hard. I think it's the same with work. So many of us are afraid that if we stop working, we will never do anything ever again, but it's because we have never experienced freedom or rest to its natural completion.

[@Zogerpogger]

This is such an excellent video that expanded my perspective. I felt that not only were the ideas expressed thought provoking, but the aesthetic of the video created a pensive yet comfortable environment.

[@hoon3y534]

I greatly anticipate the continued march to work abolition, im currently stuck in a entry level job as im new into the work force and it is extremely draining and stressing. It has worsened my visual snow condition and caused me migraines almost twice a week not to mention shaking and near anxiety attacks on the job almost daily. As someone who also struggles greatly to find housing which can free me from my forced family and give me a space of my own, i hope this movement can start with liberatory structures of safety and such is where i plan to begin. Squatting and occupying the numerous empty households in solidarity with the disadvantaged and homeless is something which ive recently begun studying and i hope to commit to soon but i do worry about what may become of me provided i face prison time as i am a trans woman. Nonetheless the struggle continues strong.

[@ThatsWhatUCallClass]

Everything that's being said is correct, but also the art in all these videos are absolutely incredible. I'm introduced to a new amazing piece everytime I watch one of these videos. It's so fun

[@ayas.4636]

This channel never disappoints. I feel like we're always being told to take what we like and try to find a career that matches it. Choose what we want what we want to be extracted from us. But there are so many stories of intense financial pressure sucking away someone's initial passion for a craft. We're also told that hardship in a job should be glorified. There are many ways to struggle, but a capitalist system doesn't deserve our energy.

[@1Dimee]

My favorite topic

[@davidrw61]

When I was in junior-high school, I recognized the trap implicit in the phrase "choosing a career" (in 1973). But I never figured out a practical solution to the problem....

[@injinii4336]

Your labor is well-spent, for your videos are insightful, inspiring, and motivating.

[@davidbouchard2499]

All the more "classical" thinkers were promising a future where we would be liberated from work. Like I always assumed up untill university that capitalism was a process through witch humanity was emancipating itself from the harshness of nature through technology and innovation. Turns out it would be possible to do so, but somehow scarcity it artificially made up just to keep extracting wealth. So we can never see a future where we would work less. Even retirement is pushed back when it is even possible...

[@levi8676]

This message needs to be spread.

[@anomalocaris7238]

What do you think about terms like post-work or post-wage as an alternative word for antiwork? Sometimes antiwork seems to broad since work is such a vague word for many

[@girlonfire2.076]

Work in the service of others without the expense of self is the best kind of work, work that has meaning purpose an brings a sense of fulfillment an joy

[@bellador4]

Wow Andrew, thank you so much. This is just what I needed to help wrap my head around the conditioning i've received at all points in my life. Working restaurants "broke" my hands and wrists, then my spirit. Forced out of work because of health and pandemic left me filled with self hatred. After a few weeks feeling sorry for myself I realized, for the moment, I could do "anything". I became hungry for knowledge. After two years, a stack of books, and a long ytube history, I found your channel. Thank you for your efforts to educate. All the power to all the people!

[@growingsage]

I'm a simple woman. I see Saint andrewism post, I click.

[@TristanWintle]

Sometimes I just want to be free.

[@nordinreecendo512]

The topic of burnout interfering with hobbies is a very good one that needs to be discussed more often. On days I work, I think "I worked today, I just wanna relax and play a game..." On my days off, I think "I worked all week,, I just wanna enjoy my day off..."

[@greenleafyman1028]

I like this channel. It introduces me a new ideas and concepts that seems very unrealistic to hear at first but makes a lot of sense after the explainations.

[@ParadoxHorde]

the worship of work fucks me up as a disabled person. the work I have to do to survive worsens my condition, which makes me more vulnerable under stress. work itself as I've seen it is disabling! and so many of us who are disabled are put into poverty through the bone dry social security networks of so-called North America. networks that our elected representatives pull money out of to put into their own pockets rather than support vulnerable people who are punished for working if we even dare to!

[@4doubloons196]

WOAH you and Nicholas black are collabing sort of! Big fan of both channels you live to see it :}

[@igoriouspitchpuckington1594]

I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired

[@victoriajankowski1197]

As someone who's 'hobbies' have always existed as a means to pad the bottom line to get it out of the red I honestly don't know what things I actually like, I simply can't untangle the need to not starve from my desire to garden or cook in a minimalist zero waste way, the joy of crafting from the need gain additional income, I can't imagine just doing a craft for the joy of it, I'd feel like I was wasting the supplies I have acquired if I could not derive cash rom them, and that is honestly depressing.

[@theshunzun]

This is definitely one of the most powerful political videos I've watched. Definitely feel validated in my need to stop working in 13 minutes from when this post goes up. Thank you!

[@WingedHuman]

Such a relief to see someone who still knows what anti-work means, even after that subreddit fiasco. So many folks on youtube and elsewhere seem to have changed their view, or don't even try to learn more about the movement, and just base their whole opinion about the movement on that stupid interview. Honestly, I felt kinda hopeless, like it was over. But I'm glad there are still people like you who didn't give up, it gives me hope that there still might be change. Thanks for your videos, they're really eye-opening!

[@Mythosician06]

Very moving, and I am currently at a temporary job. All for it.

[@ilymortygivegrandpaakiss5231]

Wow this might be the best video about antiwork I’ve watched. So well-said.

[@TheLostArchangel666]

As someone who has pathological demand avoidance... I'm pretty much unable to be anything but anti-work.

[@ruaoneill9050]

One thing I think that demonstrates how entrenched the idea of work is in our society is how common the q "what do you want to be when you grow up?" Is asked of children. It imposes the idea of work as essential to existence from such a young age. For various reasons that's become less common recently, thank gods, but it's interestinh

[@symbioticmango]

whew i love me a good mentioning of carework/housework

[@paolam.5116]

I agree!!! every time I’ve talked about the idea of anti work my coworkers got super aggressive and they always thought I was nuts, it made me feel almost gaslighted but seeing your video and your ideas is just so reassuring 😭💗 thank you so much for sharing your ideas 🥹✨

[@Enkiaswad]

I first listened to this yesterday in my bed in the evening. So basically I heard a couple of minutes and then fell asleep, that's how tired I was, and how relaxing your voice seems to be x) Relistening again this morning to actually get the content of the video 😄

[@mariedanj]

"Humans doing the hard jobs on minimum wage while the robots write poetry and paint is not the future I wanted" - Karl Sharro

[@nicholasduncan1594]

Any day I get a Saint Andrewism video is a good day. Hope you're doing well, thank you, and take care!

[@IsCoolGuy]

Watch this video while at work.

[@ikenna4143]

You dropped this on my birthday, coincidentally the day I got fired from work, me watching this a day after seems more than just a coincidence, maybe its a sign. regardless, great play.

[@anticapitalisthomedesign]

I've had such a complicated relationship with work. I'm autistic & I can't realistically be around others / in a noisy environment for more than a few hours a day, a few days a week, and that's my limit, not a sustainable practice. In a certain way, I do dream of work. I dream of having the ability - even just for a short time - to have a design job in a swanky old factory turned office loft where there's bean bags & weekly office outings, and I can be energized by exciting projects & collaborations. But I also know that's just a fantasy & not a life I genuinely want or will ever be able to have. The labor I genuinely want to do is chop wood & garden & build community.... but I can't get paid for that, and to a certain extent, that still requires some money (at least at first). I've also, interestingly enough, had the experience of sustaining myself the past 1.5 years through working ~8 hours per week, food stamps, a small emergency fund, and a few odd jobs, and despite only making about 9-10k total this year (and I live in a relatively expensive place, so this is drastically not enough, almost all money went towards rent), this is the most at peace I've ever been because I've had my time almost entirely to myself. I've had the opportunity to heal & grow & learn so much, and honestly your channel has been a significant part of that, so thank you. Here's to a post-work future for all!

[@valerieangell7588]

I too am autistic…only finally diagnosed long after a physical disability had removed me from the work place.Regular jobs were a torment,I only enjoyed them in the beginning until I had solved the efficiency question,and then had to remain,stressed and also bored for the remainder of my shift.So I changed jobs a lot.Nothing ever clicked for me,and my Aspie meltdowns became more frequent,as I really couldn’t deal with the hyper stimulation of an ordinary workplace.Worse yet,I was ashamed of my ‘weakness’,and wondered why I was so very different from my peers.I felt ‘less than’ as a result.It was actually a relief when I suffered a broken neck,and was able to retire from it all.(I know,THAT is not an improvement…it’s sad that it actually felt that way at the time.)

[@jessicagladis2134]

I just wrote an essay on this topic about transcending the capitalist modes of labor and closing the associated metabolic rift. John Bellamy Foster and Brett Clark’s chapter “the meaning of work in a sustainable society” from the Robbery of Nature is a quick read that dives into a lot of the nuances surrounding sustainability and material/immaterial production. Good video 👍

[@peterpaul176]

There are people who glorify work and work 2-3 jobs to make ends meet. That buffles me because rent and the cost of living in general is gonna increase but there is a finite amount of hours in a day.

[@LaughingGravy.01]

Oh no, you said "incentivising!" And you were doing so well! Cherrs

[@moeezS]

This is amazingly utopian and like capitalist realism, for me I've been conditioned to think it's hard to conceive of an anti-work culture. Thank you.

[@cameransandlin939]

I should be payed or given playtime for all the house work I do

[@Proxiginus]

Play is the ambition! Thanks for another great video!

[@toethumbghost]

excellent video! you do a great job of expressing my own desire for a post work society!

[@MOLLYLUNCHCO]

God, I want a post-work world so badly. I even have a job right now that I actually like, but it still doesn't matter because it sucks every drop of physical and mental energy out of me and takes up so much of my time nonetheless. Usually by Thursday afternoon I am a husk. Working 5 days a week for 8 hours a day (not including commute time or work related chores) with only 2 tiny days to ourselves?? It's too much.

[@larkin2890]

i've been out of work for almost a month and a half and i don't have two pennies to rub together and am behind on all of my bills now but i can't convince myself to get a new job just to be ground into dust all over again... and i can't say that you covering this topic rn is gonna help convince me to go beg ppl to employ me and exploit me further 😭 maybe i'll find my freedom at the bottom of the river 🤡 jk kinda ahah

[@tomaszwota1465]

Get a job, pay your bills, save some money if able, look back at this video and laugh at it.

[@FinntasticMrFox]

I'm late to this one, but holy crap, yes. Another brilliant video. I sat down to watch this after coming in from two hours of weeding and tilling because I'm learning how to grow food, because I want to, and because I finally have the time after moving away from years of service jobs. I stopped when my muscles got sore, and I'm excited to get back out there tomorrow. This is extremely normal human behaviour when we're actually left to our own devices and allowed to rest. The "People will just do nothing!" argument always gets to me because we already have people who "just do nothing", and they ride on the backs of those forced to do the labour. With or without work, you will have otherwise able people who "do nothing", but without imposed work, you have greater joy, satisfaction, and growth, not to mention communal time and energy to care for the people who *can't* work. It is work culture that enables do-nothings at the detriment of others, and they've convinced so many people that this isn't the case. tl;dr: Fuck work, I love gardening.

[@goldenfluidart]

I'm really enjoying hearing so many of my internal musings being articulated in such a concise way and tying in pieces I hadn't thought of before. Thank you for making me feel less alone in these things I've found so hard to express.

[@piku5637]

We need a 4 day 20 hour work week, unironically.

[@mainstreettoffee488]

First video of yours I’m watching , not only did I enjoy all your ideals but this was packed with fantastic information. I also love your personal aesthetic , I find most video essays to be over stimulating but the display of famous works was almost calming and made it much easier for me to listen to your words.

[@lkhvw2042]

I want the sci-fi/starfleet future. Everyone's needs are taken care of (food, shelter, healthcare etc) but people can go into jobs or careers that they are interested in or are gifted in. Universal basic income is the next thing I think we need to push. No one should have to kill themselves and shorten their lifespan to scrape a living. Automation has not lived up to its promises. But it could. We should use technology to minimise risk/monotonous/exhaustive work for humans. This extends the time available for humans to spend time on creative activities which in turn makes people happier, healthier and more productive in work or interests they want to pursue. It is mad to me that so many agricultural societies in history had significantly more downtime and rest compared to now. We have the technology to make things more eco-friendly and to have less impact on human life. But the continued idea that we need an underclass of poverty to make things run sickens me. Yet it is so intertwined with the capitalist nightmare we're living in.

[@othelliusmaximus]

"Reconciled with regimentation and can replicate and reproduce". So many r words in a short span if time. Impressive.

[@Andrewism]

I love me some alliteration lmaoo

[@sheyarjames4904]

I cannot thank you enough for iterating all of my thoughts in one cohesive and well-thought out video.

[@francegamer]

Post-work is an infinitely better term honestly. "anti-work" conjures ideas of some shiftless individual, unwilling to do anything to benefit society, while "post-work" gives more a picture of driven individual showing you working hours vs work efficiency over the last few decades and saying "we could definitely afford to chill out a little, it would probably do us some good". I believe nearly everyone is motivated to do some kind of labor, so a theoretical completion of the post-work praxis would be less a complete collapse and more people doing the jobs they actually want to and at a somewhat more sedate pace.

[@flyingsquirrel1486]

I'm curious though. This transition if it does happen would be destructive and violent. The global population is so enormous that if work was abolished, hundreds of millions would starve. It would be suffering on a catastrophic scale. Many of the other industries that we rely on, like power for example, would also collapse with the abolishment of work. How would people in harsh climates survive? Anti-work is such a cool concept, and I can imagine what a functioning society could look like, built on the ideas you discussed in your video. I'm mostly struggling with what that transition would look like, and how it would be sustainable. Small self-reliant communities could create the perfect environment for an ideal society. Yet, all it would take is one group wishing to have more than they need. If this group organized, they would be able violently seize control of other groups. These other groups who are wary of this possibility will themselves organize, or combine into larger and better protected groups. Then we are straight back along that path of master/slave as some sort of hierarchy is introduced to facilitate this organization. What would the anti-work argument have to say against this? I'm all ears, I'm genuinely curious!

[@SomeRandomDude000000]

I think first off its important to remember that hundreds of millions of people are starving, right now explicitly because of our current system. This isn't a situation where its bad but it could get worse. The hell scenario you are imagining is exactly what we have right now.

[@Andrewism]

> This transition if it does happen would be destructive and violent. The global population is so enormous that if work was abolished, hundreds of millions would starve. It would be suffering on a catastrophic scale. Many of the other industries that we rely on, like power for example, would also collapse with the abolishment of work. How would people in harsh climates survive? To begin with, I think it's important to point out that the abolition of work is not as simple as flipping a switch and transforming the entire planet overnight. There's not going to be a sudden collapse. The struggle to abolish work is a protracted struggle, one of not only destruction but also creation. We, the producers, the workers, will have to take on the task of redefining our relationship to labour. There's no reason to assume that that would mean food or power production grind to a halt. Humans, being living creatures, would naturally pursue what we need to survive. We just wouldn't be restricted by concepts such as private property, which deprive us of the ability to take part in the commons. You're correct that such a transition would be violent, but that violence would be the result of State and Capital collaborating to suppress popular will by any means necessary. As for the rest of your comment, I highly recommend checking out chapters 6,7, and 8 of Anarchy Works for more information. It's a very accessible and informative read: anarchy.works/primer.html

[@flyingsquirrel1486]

@@Andrewism cool, thanks I'll check it out