RETURN TO FOREVER | The Legacy Part 3

[@melanielynne0414]

I just listened to Return to Forever. You are right. It is fantastic music. The bassist and drummer are remarkable players. Could have done with less organ though. Enjoyed the guitar most.

[@bdlenz]

Andy, you have a such a thorough knowledge and a very perceptive point of view on this music!

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

Thanks BD...I was a pretty obsessive fan when I was a kid.....

[@franksuffel1786]

Great series. As much as I love the fire and shredding in early Al DiMeola, I like the later stuff more (now that I'm old I guess). Aside from taking his virtuosity in a different direction his composition skills and arrangements are just brilliant. The music is captivating in a different way.

[@RonHallKungFuBro]

It's tragic that most Di Meola fans cannot get past his Jazz/Rock-themed period to enjoy his later period when he has become a far more textured, layered, and interesting player, not to mention an exceptional composer. His acoustic-based work with "World Sinfonia" and others, I feel rivals anything he's ever done as he brings the same excitement, power, and technical proficiency to this stage of his career.

[@mohammednazam4644]

Great series Andy. We both obviously love a lot of the same things, and that's really cool because I am a total fusion nerd. Oddly, I'd seen Stanley Clarke on TOGWT when School Days came out and loved it but I didn't buy the album till much later so I came to this music when, really, it had already had it's time more or less. So my life changed when, in 1978 aged 16, a friend from college let me stay in his gaff with his huge record collection of Jazz and Funk and I heard, on the same day in the same listening session, these three albums - Land of the Midnight Sun Secret Agent Natural Elements I left that friends flat with my mind blown and my future pretty much set in stone.

[@mohammednazam4644]

BT Dubz - back in the early 80's Guitar Player magazine started a column called Spotlight, where unknown players would send a tape in and Mike Varney would write a short summation of the tape and the player. There were three players chosen each issue. Spotlight introduced me to Yngwie, Paul Gilbert, Scott Henderson, Tony McAlpine and many many others who went on to be part of the Shrapnel label. Each player also listed three influences. I remember clearly that Yngwie listed Al Di Meola, and as soon as I heard Yngwie and I heard it straight away.

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

Yes...I think he learnt Al Di tunes in his younger days

[@RonHallKungFuBro]

This series of RTF videos are some of your most important and some of your best. The impact that RTF had and still has on jazz fusion cannot be understated. Also talking about the continued evolution of Al Di Meola is definitely a topic that deserves its own video. Great, great stuff, Andy. You have no peer!

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

Thanks Ron

[@the16thGemini]

Forever Chick Corea !!!! He molded a lot of influences into his style of playing. We hear traces of Bill Evans in Where Have I Known You Before. But he also had that funky/soulful/hardbop and swing thing from his time with Blue Mitchell and Herbie Mann. Before the commercial heights of RTF, Chick knew how to reach out and touch with his music.

[@markcapofari8419]

In San Francisco saw the trio at Carnegie Hall Talking about great influential guitarists urge you to listen to Duane Allman - Live at Filmore recording

[@SuperQdaddy]

where have I know you before album...really set a fire..I was at the show in central park..and crowd went wild *

[@2yhtomit]

As always, thanks for your insight and enthusiasm. (Sigh, I just ordered five CDs that you discussed from Discogs after watching this video.)

[@jefferysimpkins366]

Great set of videos!!

[@jackg5893]

Great three part series Andy! Your presentation format for this three part series is typically very unique. Even though it is obvious that the best way to describe RTF is by discussing the core albums by Chick Corea and RTF and then those highly influential spin off albums by its very talented members, most KZbinrs would not think of presenting it in that way. You are a highly innovative KZbinr, which is why I will always continue to watch your channel! Jack G (from Canada)

[@Robt.Velasquez]

And thank you very much for doing this series. I cannot wait for the Narada interview. Just knowing that your platform is being recognized by such a great musician is huge for you and your viewers! Way to go!,! ❤️

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

There are more on the way. I feel like the whole channel is going up a gear now because of Narada's endorsement

[@jazzpunk]

The Downbeat Readers Poll Awards Shows from 1975 & 1976 (on KZbin) show these iconic Fusioneers in their hey day.

[@markcapofari8419]

Andy - yet another solid review. Fortunately had the opportunity to see them in different settings - as a band at different venues and Stanley/ Chick and Al with different bands theirs and others - Tuesday before Friday Night

[@davestephens6421]

Excellent analysis Andy. I think Al Di is a really interesting case....have followed everything he has done and watched him develop into the place he is now...where he has basically his own genre. He is really light years ahead of virtually any guitarist I can think of.....both as a composer and musician. He uses his awesome technique to create the music and not to show off his technique if that makes sense. Of course people still want to hear him play Race With Devil....but that is not where he is anymore... A phenomenal artist!!!! Having seen a lot of his incarnations live and talking to him....I find it incredible that he isn't recognised more by the jazz community. I was talking to him in Switzerland, and he couldn't get a gig in the UK at the time ( hence my trip to Geneva)...but I said I would try and help him and came back and made a few noises. Next time I saw him was at Ronnie Scott's!!!

[@davidwright7287]

I preferred Bill Connors.

[@davestephens6421]

@@davidwright7287 I absolutely loved Billy's playing too....but by No Mystery the compositions needed Al to be there....

[@randygirard6691]

In a recent interview with Stanley Clarke he talked about Chick's way of notation. That it was classical in form.

[@rfraser-ut7qi]

I'd love to hear your thoughts on Chick Corea's Elektric Band.

[@davidcarr2216]

I can listen to you all day Andy. These Miles alumni did so much more with the music than he ever did or could - he seemed to settle for wearing outrageous alien space suites on stage. His ego must have been very bruised. He desperately wanted to pull Stanley away from Chick but Stan wasn’t having any of it. Keith Jarrett remarked that Miles had finally found what he was looking for with Tutu, ie the funk. Don't you think the showing off element of Jazz fusion was what garnered it a bad name with the jazz critics ? Absolutely, they were/are gifted players but they were trying to show off to impressionable young minds (eg you and I) and make some money which was pretty much impossible to do in jazz. They did a pretty good job of maintaining quality though , given their output in the 70s both as group members and individually. Watched the Rick Beato interview with Al Di Meola, essential viewing for fusioneers. I think his playing is much more about the music these days.

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

One theory that has developed in me as I have done this channel is that Miles seventies albums did not really pioneer anything that we could call jazz fusion, and that their innovations were felt elsewhere (for example in 90s trip hop). But Miles was a true fusion pioneer in the 80s and lead the way in that decade. I alsi think the best of the 80s albums are up with the best he ever did, and need to be reassesed. Decoy is as good, if not better than any Scofield, Elektric Band or Tribal Tech album from that period.

[@aaronocelot]

re 13:37 well, yeah, but don't forget Steve Howe "Mood for a Day" on Yes "Fragile"... the classical aesthetic was already present in prog... not sure where it came from.... by the way, i feel sufficiently silly for prattling on about RTR when here you had already recorded a 3 part mini-series on the same 1 year prior, LOL

[@stuartraybould6433]

These Return to Forever videos have been very interesting, thanks for doing them. While I agree that a lot of music is edited together using protools but I think you're a little unfair in one comment about Snarky Puppy, many of their albums are live albums recorded in front of an audience with dvds included. Jagga Jazzist have also done a great live album. I've seen both bands and they are wonderful live. Can't speak about other fusion bands live but those two bands definitely are the real deal.

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

Don't think because an album is live it cannot be tampered with digitally. Check out Snarky Puppy on their polished live videos then check out the phone footage live videos

[@stuartraybould6433]

@@AndyEdwardsDrummer True but I've seen them live three times. One show wasn't as good as the other two, they didn't play with quite the same fire but the other two especially the last one in London, they were brilliant, on fire, better than watching any video. I don't think it was a fluke more likely the one show was just a bad night. All bands have them.

[@terryjohnson5275]

I've come to RTF , AL and Stanley in reverse in that was into HM prog and shred guitarists a long tme before getting to know RTF. When I first heard what John Petrucci was doing I thougt it was fantstic - then I was introduced to Electric Rendezvous and the penny dropped. I'm sure you're right in surmising that Yngwie must have been influenced, though he's always said that he was doing on guitar what Paganini was doing on violin. Steve Vai must have been influenced to some extent leading to him duetting with Al, so if Vai was then probably Satriani too, along with some you mentioned like Gilbert, Friedman and Becker as well as Howe and MacAlpine- I also wonder if Edward Van Halen was influenced and wouldnt be at all surprised if Randy Rhoads was.

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

I cannot see how they weren't! I read an interview where Yngwie mentioned learning Al Di tunes when he was younger

[@petertrotman7708]

Nice Andy. I was wondering what your thoughts were on RTF's "Musicmagic" Fusion but not Rock. A lot of people hated or disliked it intensely but I had no problem with it as a stand alone but it does sound like Chick's idea but with Stanley along for the ride.

[@grahamallen9393]

Be really interesting to hear also why maybe the British jazz fusion scene didn’t take off in the same way . Was thinking of Colosseum 2 , somehow never seemed to quite catch on , Hiseman phenomenal player but was the music just too busy , were the compositions not as strong ? Anyways Isotope, Brand X, Back Door etc all interesting ventures.

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

I think this is rooted in the British attitude to jazz, which is a mixture of snobbishness and insecurity. Of course John Mclaughlin is British and Allan Holdsworth is British. Between those two that's a pretty dominant influence on fusion history, but that is somehow discounted, which is down to the traits I just described. The reason I don't play jazz or fusion is also down to those traits. Here in the UK we are far better at prog rock, and UK fusion has often had to hide under that banner. I'll stop there as this could be a video, as you said....

[@grahamallen9393]

@@AndyEdwardsDrummer Yes please ! ( a video )

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

@@grahamallen9393 On it's way....

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

@@grahamallen9393 Up now and you get a mention....

[@grahamallen9393]

@@AndyEdwardsDrummer thanks Andy currently at work , so looking forward to watching later !

[@douglasanderson8636]

Andy.if you want a fright,,-in a good way- listen to a flamenco player called Tomatito.

[@johnayres2303]

There should be one last Return to Forever band and they should create just one album. The band should be Al DiMeola, Bill Connors, Stanley Clarke and Lenny White.

[@louisgreen3915]

I totally agree that RTF is the model for all the fusion groups to come after, (a bit like Led Zep was the model for alot of rock bands that came after). My issue as well with alot of modern fusion is that I don't like the sound of alot of the bands production wise. The 70s has the sounds right for me. Like Hendrix meets James Brown with Miles & Coltrane directions. And there is no material like Mahavishnu Orchestra. Alot of people try to right like Chick but fail to capture any of the real feelings. Stanly Clark just blew me away with Lopsy Lu, and I loved it when Al went acoustic. I saw him at Ronnie's about 3 or 4 years back and his music (like modern Mclaughlin) was very sophisticated but essentually it had soul. I believe that Music schools churn out technical ability's in abundance but alot of these guys still don't play Funky Drummer with the correct feel, (just as the first example off the top of my head). I believe it is mostly the self taught guys who push music forward. Django, Bird, Buddy Rich, Charlie Christian, Hendrix. It's these guys that make everyone turn around and think "I need to get me some of that". And if their classically trained then it's possible to push the envelope further like a Chick Corea or a Jean Luc Ponty. But landmarks like Hendrix will always stand out to the less knowledgable ear, because his output is so much more obvious, were a JLP or a Chick may not be. We need to get the less educated into better music and that can only come from exposure (is what Rick Beato was talking about). Wow wow wow...What to do? Great vids Andy, these must be helping toward the exposure front so keep them coming (I'm looking forward to you and Narada).

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

I agree with all of that...you havr described the reason why I'm making these videos....

[@davidwright7287]

I liked the first album with Bill Connors. Bill was raw back then. After Bill, RtF got naffer and naffer. In spite of being superior musicians, they never wrote anything as good as Close to the Edge. Meanwhile Bill morphed into a very interesting player indeed. Just my opinion of course.