AN INTERESTING RADIO THAT WAS DISCONTINUED... BUT WHY??!!

The Motorola DTR 2450 sure is an interesting radio, I acquired a couple from a popular auction website and gave them a good test! Motorola claims 10 Kilometers range from a radio operating on 2.4Ghz... REALLY?!
EBIKE KITS
www.kirbebike.com
MORE ABOUT THESE RADIOS FROM RINGWAY MANCHESTER
• Frequency Hopping Radi...
LONG DISTANCE PMR446
• I Made A 30 Mile Conta...

[@1changi]

Thanks Andy for taking the effort to demonstrate that the key to clear reception is firstly, digital is obviously better than analogue. Secondly, the types of antennae chosen will yield different results. So, besides the design of the radio circuitry, what matters is the clear line-of-sight between receiver and transmitter and the appropriate antennae. Much appreciated for this demonstration. Fascinating.

[@joen9275]

Bought a set of 4 of those 2450's 2 yrs ago and never got the chance to play with them. Would be interesting to see if they tx with that small patch antenna you have on your next video... Thanks for making this one really enjoyed it! You've got a new sub in the U. S. :)

[@OldManBadly]

2.4 gig isn't particularly useful for urban use, as it is quickly attenuated by almost any object, building, or even trees. If you went with two very directional antennas lined up and a clear line of sight, you might be upwards to 4 or 5 kms. But as soon as anything is in the way (even rain or fog) it's done for.

[@tomKZ8TOM]

Like the different topics and random ones you post. Maybe a video integrating all your favs: car, ebike, music, drone, solar and radio?😀 Always interesting!

[@flapjack9495]

We have some very similar radios at work. They work on the 902-928 MHz band, which is a license-free band here in the US. They do work quite well. I also think it's important to point out that the only "security" these offer is security through obscurity. Radio hobbyists have gotten pretty good at reverse engineering fairly sophisticated radio protocols and a determined attacker probably could do so with these. It would definitely be non-trivial, though.

[@WillPhoneman]

I have some of the US versions, the DTR 600 and 700 are still made. As far as the security, it's not true encryption, but it's not monitorable on any scanner. Some people have been able to lock onto the frequency hopping, but decoding the digital modulation is what stops you from hearing anything intelligible. Unlike modes like DMR/P25/NXDN etc, it's a proprietary Motorola format that isn't supported by any of the decoding programs available. Not to say it can't be done, but it will take some work.

[@dazaro3]

I get well over 1 mile with my UHF transmitter and its RF power is 15mw, I have and many others have tested our 15mw transmitter with amazing results and it runs for a week in 2 AA batteries.

[@VicGreenBitcoin]

The sell 100mw childeren radio`s on 2.4 ghz (only analoog), you get about the same range as gmrs radio`s kzbin.infoai_JnC3KBgc?feature=share

[@charleskosyjana1295]

The radio looks almost identical to early 2000's Nextel phones but without the number keypad. Even the sounds it makes is exactly like the old Nextel phones. I wish they could bring them back.

[@dmo848]

Bleep bleep

[@huwkelvinmorgan3575]

wow that was a really interesting video 0n 2.4Ghz digital, the two experiments i would love to try out on those hand sets is 1, try out making some circular polarization antennas they should at least give better range or maybe not that would be the experiment, and 2, go down to the edge of the sea where there is an inversion layer just above the sea a few feet. and get some one else in another country to do the same with the same hand set to see if it is possible to make contact there might even be an ability to go round heads of land due to the nature of the inversion layer at sea.

[@ElexGamingLifeSafetyGuy]

I have the models DTR 410, 550, and 650 which operate on the 900mhz spectrum. From where I live, I can get about a 1.5 to 2 mile range on these (approximately 3 to 3.5 km maybe) and they work well. I have the long whip antennas on mine and I love to listen with the scan option on these radios to other businesses and warehouses around my house. These radios also offer over the air cloning to program channels to other radios.

[@andykirby]

Interesting. How did you setup the scan option?

[@ElexGamingLifeSafetyGuy]

@@andykirby if you press the "menu" button on the radio, then scroll down to "settings" and click on it, scroll down to "advanced" and click, then you should scroll and see the scan option. Click on "scan" and it should give you the option to set scan either on or off.

[@JamieLovick]

The DLR and DTR radios have the concept of channels, the DLR models are 2 and 6 channels, and the DTR ones go up from there, right up to the DTR 700, which has 50 channels. When scanning, you're just scanning through the channels.

[@radiosification]

Great video Andy. I have some of these too and they're good fun to play with and try a different band out. It's surprising how far you can get on 2.4 GHz

[@RingwayManchester]

Hope you’re ok Ben!

[@radiosification]

@@RingwayManchester yeah good thanks Lewis, and you?

[@tech-rich]

Interestingly they still sell a modernised DTR line in the USA, but using 1 Watt on the 900MHz ISM band.

[@VK9TOM]

Good to see you back doing radio videos

[@dennisking4719]

Really enjoying watching the vids😎, looking forward to see the return of the radio stuff😆😉👍

[@bigradiofan7216]

Quite amazing how far you can get on such a high frequency. Maybe try some tests with 23cm sometime ? There's ATV repeaters on there also of course. Btw you have the same Bluetooth back-lit keyboard as me. Unfortunately battery life isn't great with the light on all the time

[@RadiotronicsUK]

Blast from the past.. Great video. I think Lewis from the @RingwayManchester channel also had some of these.

[@liquidusblue]

I just like how enthused you are with the subject!

[@tonyweavers4292]

Another great video, but I had trouble listening with the distraction of the music in the background. Is this really necessary? Thanks once again for all your stuff.

[@disinpho]

Are there any radios like this one the 800mhz band? Isn't that band free to use and shouldn't it penetrate obstacles better than 2.4ghz?

[@Ei2iP]

My record on 70cms ssb is 2700kms, 50w in to a yagi, contact from Ireland to Canary Islands, under tropospheric bands conditions.

[@VicGreenBitcoin]

why are there not AM/FM/SSB PMR radio`s?

[@phillipsmiley5930]

@@VicGreenBitcoin do you mean 446PMR? if so only FM, dPMR and DMR modes are legal

[@mr_ice117]

Bought back memories of using nextel back in the 2000s

[@Gadgetdad007]

Very similar to what kind of distance you can get with the DJI Mini drones. Good stuff Andy. 👍🏽

[@gamlemann53]

That was an interesting video Andy! the best from LB1NH

[@drahtfunker]

Thanks, for the video. I'll be testing the dtr2430 in the next days hopefully. I'm so curious to explore 13cm.

[@stuartvaughan8599]

Very interesting video Andy. Keep them coming

[@Michael-xl8dz]

Them radios look like the one's we used on the NEXTEL NETWORK IT WAS CALL PUSH TO TALK,BUT IT REALLY WORKED...

[@Bazzawombat]

They used 2 ghz for communications with Apollo on the moon. But they used 200 ft ground based dishes to do so. Amateur radio operators have used 2.4 ghz for moon bounce, but not with a wifi antenna:-)

[@BlokeOnAMotorbike]

I've heard a lot of people saying that Pringles cans don't work at 2.4GHz, but I'm here to tell you THEY DO. Build a good antenna out of two of those things and you too, could easily get 7.5km with a pair of standard output wifi dongles (working on the assumption that you have line of sight from point to point).

[@BoredGeese]

Howwww

[@S7EVE_P]

I know this is totally.off the topic Andy, but noticed you make your own music just wondered if youd ever consider making a video on your hardware...how to get started etc?

[@JamieLovick]

There are other DLR and DTR radios that operate in the 900 MHz ISM band, which is 900-928 in the US, or 915-928 in AU/NZ and parts of Asia.

[@mr_froggie]

Nice work. Have always been interested in radios but never owned anything more than walkie talkies. If you have got nobody to talk to then you can only listen. So whats the deal with the scanners, what is the most reasonably priced scanner that picks up the most in urban area?

[@DPush420]

Are your windows double paned? The argon gas in a window makes LOS less effective.

[@nixter31]

I’m planning to buy a couple of DTR 650s, are they worth it how many kilometres can they reach?

[@artursmihelsons415]

Great video and nice tests! I love CB, that's why I have cars CB radio in my home.. 😂 Sometimes, cool to listen truck drivers..

[@t23001]

Very clever radio experiment and video production!

[@Itachi_Cozinheiro]

Saudações amigo ! Voçê conseguiu programar os rádios ??

[@RingwayManchester]

Love it randers

[@andykirby]

💦

[@fidelcatsro6948]

Wow 2.45ghz!! Thats cemetery frequency, we could hear them below! So technically if i was using a portable radio AM radio transmitter that runs in the KHz range, i could reach further?

[@dregenius]

Oh boy am I surprised to see a video on the DTR radios! I scored a couple DTR620's a few years ago on eBay and loved them so much I wanted to get a few more.. but realized I had a problem. I'd inadvertently gotten the DTR620 which was sold in the latin american market, instead of the US market DTR650. They appear to both use roughly 900MHz but are different enough that they won't talk to each other evidently. Supposedly there's a version of the firmware that allows the DTR620 to operate as a 650, but I have been looking for probably dozens and dozens of hours on the internet, and I cannot find such firmware or even the basic configuration software except for version 1 and 2 for the 620, and only two of my radios have old enough firmware to work with those earlier versions of the Motorola CPS software. If *anyone* happens to read this and has a newer version of the 620 CPS (remember these radios are not license restricted and the CPS was also similarly freely available back when these were in production!) or perhaps any cool or unique moto software, firmware or the like for these DTR radios, let me know! I've got both programming and flashing cables for them (the one that requires frankenstein 12V injection lol), just need some software to play with! 🤪

[@ElexGamingLifeSafetyGuy]

I've been wondering what frequency the 620s operate on, I have all three DTR 410, 550, and 650 radios. Best radios to operate in digital for a person who doesn't have a license.

[@dregenius]

@@ElexGamingLifeSafetyGuy I could even be misinformed about the 620's being somewhere in the 900MHz, I just recall reading that somewhere. Either way, I would imagine that DTRs that operate in the 900MHz range are ideal - these things have a silly long range and 900MHz sounds even better than the 2.4GHz that evidently the EU market variants use!

[@ElexGamingLifeSafetyGuy]

@@dregenius there's definitely a difference in range between the EU radios and the U.S. radios for the DTR series. Specially where I live I can get about a 1.5 to 2 mile range on the walkies with just long whip antennas. I'm thinking that's probably around the 3km range which is pretty awesome for business radios. There's also a lot of hotels and warehouses that utilize these radios in my area so the scan feature is pretty neat when I want to hear people using the public channels. It's definitely interesting to see different frequencies used with these radios.

[@TonyLing]

9:27 Totally legal unless you use the 'secret sauce' software and programme them for 2W

[@georgeyreynolds]

Which one on Amazon and what do you Google for the firmware?

[@ka1jbe]

Are you going thru a repeater?

[@Macmonkey1000]

Amazing to think that voyager 1 transmits successfully over 14.6 billion miles on 2.4 GHz or higher. Helps that there's no churches or trees in deep space I guess 🙂

[@andykirby]

Haha! Yes, space is a vacuum, it's amazing to me too.

[@telx2010]

Then you find out its all lies.

[@Macmonkey1000]

@@telx2010 I know, everyone's out to screw us, make sure your tin hat is secure or they'll scrub your mind following that comment.

[@ka1jbe]

It's the height that does it. You can connect via 144 and 432 just as easy

[@OutlawNix]

I got a couple GMRS handheld radios that I can hit a repeater that's like 20 miles away. For those that lives across the pond that's 32km away. Which I'm kinda shocked I can hit the repeater cause there is plenty of trees, houses and stuff in between.

[@andykirby]

Repeaters are usually in very high places so their coverage should be very good. Still impressive though!

[@silverismoney]

We have the Retevis RB615 set for CTCSS and we've not actually ever heard anyone else on them. Mostly the kids use them because I got them really cheap for camping / hiking so the kids use them the rest of the time.

[@andykirby]

Yes if you use CTCSS you won't "hear" anyone else but they could still be there in the background and may or may not interfere with your transmissions.

[@prisim]

What a lot of fun - it just shows what a curious mind can do

[@wonkastudio-johnny]

is that a roland fantom 07 behind you ?

[@kerozin520]

According to specs sheet RF output is only 100mW, works great with such tiny power.

[@andykirby]

Yeah legal power output 👍🏻 you don't need a lot of power for point to point links

[@georgespeck8761]

in the USA they are in the 900 mhz range transmits range is about one mile.

[@neildavidson7809]

Ahh beautiful Hertingfordbury

[@thomashenden71]

Hey mate, why not pick up a couple of Pringles cans on your way back home? 😄

[@Dave64track]

Great content interesting stuff

[@pete3897]

I don't think DSSS inherently adds security in a modern SDR world. Back when it was narrowband scanners only sure, but that was 20 years ago.

[@emailshafihusain]

This technology is replaced by DMR. It is equally secure and can be connected to the internet for VoIP through a modem. There are roughly around 200,000 members using it including myself.

[@andykirby]

DMR doesn't use frequency hopping and is definately not secure. It's cool that Hams are using it though.

[@gustavevilleneuvedehoff-un5459]

@@andykirby AES encryption with DMR is beyond tough (question is whether it's legal in a particular jurisdiction). Frequency hopping is not - even if you don't have the hopping algo one can simply record the spectum and easily pick them pieces here and there.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Andy, I liked this video.. Callum.

[@andykirby]

Cheers Callum!

[@Irio1993]

Isn't the window blocking the signal? Maybe on windowsill it's gonna be better?

[@BillyNoMates1974]

that was interesting, so why was it discontinued ?

[@andykirby]

Yes that's the question!

[@BillyNoMates1974]

@@andykirby I think it is because with a different antenna, it worlls a bit too well. Just like a modded PMR446 radio

[@WillPhoneman]

I have the US versions of these, the DTR650, and the new DTR700, which is still produced. One thing to note, if you are on the public channels, any other DTR radio on that channel can hear you if they are in range, and you will hear them. If you set up a private group, and only assign your radios to it, no one else would hear you. It's not true encryption, but there aren't any scanners that can hear it, even the new digital scanners. You'd need an SDR, and a program that could follow the frequency hopping. Even then, the actual signal is a proprietary Motorola format called VSELP, which there are no software decoders for. If/when someone figures out how to demodulate the VSELP digital signal, and follow the frequency hopping, they could listen in. I have no doubt that Motorola has test equipment that can do just that, but it's unlikely it will be publicly released. For true encryption, something that offers AES256 with a strong key is about as unbreakable as you will get on the civilian market

[@andykirby]

Nice info thanks!

[@leonvanderlinde5580]

If you have a hundred of them in an area, they will use the other to retransmit the signal, the other radios, although not montoring, they don't hear you, just auto repeat ypur signal. They form a net. There are a few differnet manufacturers doing this. They are horrible expensive new. That is why the were discontinued. It is secure between two radios, although other radios retransmit your signal.

[@talkinghat88]

The glass holder worked better than the cotton bud box

[@edwardlemley5222]

Those are just like my DTR-650’s. They run 900mhz in the same manner as these.

[@tooslow125cc3]

I just can't believe how your interest has changed a lot since you stopped your e biking, what mey u stop Great riding videos Your friend make good ebike, where your content with excellent it a shame I was really shocked the e-bike community facebook All talking about just realise by the messages on Facebook what happened to Andy Kirby Hope get well soon stay positive

[@electropro83]

With the right antenna, low power is not an issue.

[@talkinghat88]

Nice device with impressive Motorola features. Too bad it has not external connection for telemetry

[@AB-ku4my]

Take mine when I go fishing with a mate. He can wander off down the bank, and I can call him back if I need a hand. I'm disabled so a big beastie fish can be difficult for me to land.

[@indridcold8433]

The reason why it had such long range was because of the cotton box under it.

[@inthewoods6857]

spoil the vid with background music...

[@andykirby]

Nah... don't be a misery.

[@stephendonkin5497]

Definitely Andy enjoyed it

[@wisteela]

Very interesting. Lots of possibilities. 73 M7TUD

[@andykirby]

👌🏼

[@leonvanderlinde5580]

If you had 5 radios at various location along the way, you would be able to communicate very far.

[@andykirby]

No they cant relay voice or data.

[@talkinghat88]

Music was cool by the way!

[@robtherub]

Redoing old content worth it if you can add something, youtube likes next video next video... your enthuisiasm is catchy

[@robertbobbitt8448]

I cant believe he just showed a modified 891 That's a big no no

[@bryancomeaux4961]

I invented the cheap powerful reliable walkie talkie multipack just before cell phones came out

[@indridcold8433]

There was a V-Link by V-Tech, back in the day. It operated on 902 to 928 megahertz. It offered a half watt. It was supposed to cover an entire city block. It was quite interesting. It operated on FM narrow. I rather liked them. But V-Tech was making them without consent of the CRCT, nor the FCC. They were ordered to stopped being produced. Then V-Tech got the licenses needed and started marketing them again. But, it was too late. Everyone had lost interest in them.

[@egillis214]

Great in USA in 900Mhz using FHSS digital voice and text messaging with Private channels (Frequency Hopping Spread Spectrum) easy to program in CPS. Requires no license. 🎉 We call them DTR 410 500 650 700/600... all the same. 902-920mhz 90ms hops in 50 frequency channels. No decode possible with scanners nor like model radios when using private digital voice or text messages. VSLEP modulation in the USA ISM 900 mhz Business license free

[@phillipsmiley5930]

Sound quality is like DMR, so you'd be better off with a Baofeng DMR on 446

[@myriaddsystems]

2.4 GHz - that nice microwave oven frequency?

[@Lipi19821]

does it have snake game from nokia...that screen reminded me of old nokia phones...

[@danukepaintball]

900mhz, not 2.4 ghz...

[@danukepaintball]

Ah, crap. I just looked it up. MOST DTR radios are 900. This one is one I didn't ever see and is 2.4ghz. Sorry about that.

[@DAVIDGREGORYKERR]

an AES encrypted radio transceiver might be better.

[@powerfarmer]

the lower the frequency - the wider the range... the lower the frequency - the higher the tx- power..

[@welshbikepackingadventures]

This is what I come here for 😁

[@germanjohn5626]

There is no such thing as private radio communications.

[@peterfitzpatrick7032]

Yer in a graveyard... of course the radios dead !! .... duh 🙄😂

[@Knarf14]

Sounds line old school nextel

[@scaleop4]

👍👍

[@rmetcalf89]

They're 900 mhz, not 2.4 G

[@andykirby]

DTR 2450 are 2.4Ghz.

[@rmetcalf89]

@@andykirby Oh. Well then, I thought all of the DTR series radios were 900mhz. Interesting. I wonder if the 900mhz versions would have better coverage than the 2.4

[@andykirby]

Yeah most likely. 900Mhz will have a bit better penetration of obstacles due to its shorter wavelength. For long range drones we use 868Mhz as the control link rather than 2.4Ghz

[@pedromateo7970]

I don't know I haven't really alpha😊

[@thomasnappo6309]

Sounds like they don't work to good..

[@photosbycharles9880]

Did you make sure the one you gave me was Covid Free 🤣🤣

[@telx2010]

Everythings cove free! Its never been isolated!

[@daienaa]

I want to ask if China made radios is are bad as people say because I want to buy beofang 😊

[@andykirby]

Baofeng are pretty good budget radios

[@daienaa]

@@andykirby thank you 😊 I ask because I have 2 Motorola that I got when my grandpa passed recently and someone wants to trade them for a beofang and I have no use for this stuff and know nothing so I plan to sell it. Or actually I have to pay a little extra for that beofang thing because it’s newer and has more features he told me, so I looking to sell it for $110-$100 something (I get like $30 for that so it’s not much money lol)

[@krisraps]

I Bet These Radios Are Best Friend For Drug Lords And Kingpins!

[@Jkauppa]

how about parabolic antennas

[@Jkauppa]

car mounted telescope antenna dish

[@Jkauppa]

a bit like crane telescope antenna mast

[@Jkauppa]

directional signal is also additionally private

[@Jkauppa]

laser link should work too

[@Jkauppa]

money as reason is bollocks

[@donbenoit2072]

Get to the point!

[@414RadioTech]

I use one of those to rebroadcast my scanner traffic just like a repeater would only the scanner is the receiver and the DTR radio is the transmitter and I'm not doing any harm and it cannot be used dropped on so nobody would ever know that I'm doing that how wonderful technology ended up so now I got myself a nice Wireless transmitter so I can use it like a speaker basically whatever the scanner hears the portable DTR will hear out in the field or even throughout the whole city after pumping 50 Watts out of it using an amplifier

[@robbiln7770]

Cool digital Motorola I use dlr1020 2.ch fshh900mhz? Happy Halloween.

[@pete3897]

I don't think DSSS inherently adds security in a modern SDR world. Back when it was narrowband scanners only sure, but that was 20 years ago.

[@Bootyhunter1971]

Sdr cant decode Motorolaa proprietary frequency hopping.

[@pete3897]

@@Bootyhunter1971 with all due respect, I think you're wrong and I suspect you're not aware of what SDR can really enable

[@Bootyhunter1971]

@@pete3897 Unless its a government agency, sdr software available to general public CAN NOT decode Motorolas proprietary fhhs code.

[@pete3897]

@@Bootyhunter1971 can't disagree with your second statement - which is far more qualified than the first