How does a Panhard Bar Work?

[@wolfthornhawkridge5705]

You’ve completely spoiled us. We’re going to expect an illustration going forward. Excellent informational video, as always.

[@AndyKruseChannel]

Haha, that was weak sauce, I should have done a better job. :)

[@jaygribbin6790]

Great explanation Andy. The reason it changes the cornering characteristics is actually because it changes the rear roll centre of the car. The roll center is the point that the car pivots around when the body rolls. On a leaf sprung car like the mustang the roll centre is the centre of the line running through the axles. When you install a panhard bar the roll centre moves to the point where the panhard bar crosses the cars centre line. By the positioning of your bar you can see when the car is on it's wheels, how much you have raised or lowered the roll centre by the Panhard bar's position relative to the axle centre line. If you raise the rear roll centre the car will have sharper turn in but tend to oversteer, if you lower the roll center the car will lose some sharpness and tend to understeer. If you were racing the car you'd run a lower roll centre but compensate for that by going harder in rear spring rate which would improve the overall handling. Playing with this stuff is hugely enjoyable. If you haven't already, put your bar at the highest setting and go through your favourite corners and then swap to the lowest setting and try the same corners you will be amazed at the difference. Enjoy.

[@AndyKruseChannel]

Yes, all of that. I have played with the bar settings and I am happy with it for now in its current position. However, if I see some track time, I'll be tweaking it again. :)

[@ML-dl1cp]

this is about the best. most simple explanation of a P-bar setup I have seen on KZbin.

[@AndyKruseChannel]

Haha, its passable, but thank you anyway. :)

[@jmailbell]

I was impressed by the drawing and the paper cutout!

[@AndyKruseChannel]

Haha, thanks!

[@Edub816]

The illustrations were really helpful, to help understand how it works. Thanks.

[@AndyKruseChannel]

Glad to hear that!

[@noecortez8677]

Thank you for the illustration and explanation. I think I will be upgrading my 67 now with this in the rear,

[@AndyKruseChannel]

Glad it was helpful!

[@WatchNFLNetwork-m2w]

Excellent video and explanation as always Andy!

[@AndyKruseChannel]

Thanks!

[@KahanisGoldenBytes]

What a great explanation ! For a green horn like me, it could not get better. Thanks for all the effort !

[@AndyKruseChannel]

No problem! :)

[@davevan8864]

I run a Panhard rod on my 1923 Ford T hot rod as it has coil over shocks. A must for that car.....but this old man does not drive hard enough in his 66 Mustang for one. Thanks

[@AndyKruseChannel]

Does not drive hard enough? We can fix that. :)

[@davevan8864]

@@AndyKruseChannel I bought my 66 in 1975, all the kids came home from the hospital in it. It is much more than a car to us.....thus I tend to baby her. Thanks!!!

[@SlowInFastOut1776]

Awesome explanation, Andy. The drawing really helped for us more visually stimulated folks.

[@AndyKruseChannel]

Haha, maybe next time I do bad drawing like this and get a white board for the equations? :)

[@paulkang6842]

This drawing helped a ton.

[@AndyKruseChannel]

Nice!

[@CharlieVinci-o8w]

the drawing is awesome

[@AndyKruseChannel]

Haha, thanks. :)

[@SmackeysGarage]

Nice explanation!

[@AndyKruseChannel]

Thanks!

[@TheJPREGroup]

That's a great drawing and explanation.

[@AndyKruseChannel]

Thank you! Cheers!

[@markursich3305]

Excellent video and explanation as always Andy! I'm strongly considering doing this to my 70' convertible this winter. My front end is dialed in and is very responsive but my rear is all over the map when going around corners.

[@AndyKruseChannel]

You can do it!

[@PowerfulRoman]

Great video Andy!

[@AndyKruseChannel]

Thanks!

[@JimsFastbackGarage]

Very good video, the paper cutouts are perfect. I have a factory 3 link with panhard bar on my 73 LTD. The bar isn't as long as yours and causes the rearend to move back and forth as the suspension moves up and down. I would like to modify it and make it longer.

[@AndyKruseChannel]

Sounds like we've got a project for the weekend! :)

[@vetteluvnh]

Great explainer/illustration!

[@AndyKruseChannel]

Glad it was helpful!

[@amx19733]

Damn, that was Great!!

[@AndyKruseChannel]

Thanks!

[@primotote]

Excellent video, THANKS !!

[@AndyKruseChannel]

Glad you liked it!

[@jordanschultz2232]

Great review and visualizations! Makes me want one.. have you looked into the half bars that connect to the third member instead of the leaf?

[@AndyKruseChannel]

Yeah, the Watts Link offer some advantages over the Panhard Bar, but it is more expensive and requires more modifications to the car and axle. I'm poor, so I went with the Panhard because it checks enough boxes to produce the results I want with very little side effects. :)

[@jordanschultz2232]

@@AndyKruseChannel I believe these are maybe used more for offroading applications? Unsure

[@Dwhinery]

Thanks! I installed del-a-lum bushings from global west that is supposed to do the same thing. I haven’t tried them yet because I’m finishing restoration. Have you heard of them?

[@AndyKruseChannel]

Yeah, but they don't do the same thing, they're not strong enough to keep that axle centered under the car during hard corners. :)

[@Dwhinery]

@@AndyKruseChannel I will let you know when I find out. I am told that they do not allow side-to-side movement by several KZbinrs. It makes sense because there is no rubber to give, just lubricated bushings with bearings in the sides with super heavy shackles.

[@christophersambuco9414]

Between the special Front Upper Control Arms, and the Rear Panhard Bar... which mod made the most improvements to the driving feel and handling?

[@AndyKruseChannel]

@@christophersambuco9414 The Panhard Bar, 100%. The UCAs fit with the 'sum of the whole parts' when it comes to changes with the front steering and suspension components. Don't get my wrong, those UCAs are fantastic, but if someone took a stock Mustang and swapped in those UCAs or installed the Panhard Bar, the Panhard Bar will win every time. You can steer with the throttle when you have a Panhard Bar (or similar components like a Watts Link or a 4-Link), and that adds a level of control that can't be obtained with UCAs. If someone took that same car and was looking to make their ride to the grocery store a little more pleasant, the UCAs might win with the improved caster and motion ratio. But I doubt that person would notice since they're just driving to the grocery store. :)

[@whatcanilearnhere9158]

well done.

[@AndyKruseChannel]

Thanks! :)

[@simplylifeau]

Thanks for taking the time to explain this 👍

[@AndyKruseChannel]

No problem!

[@JonathanFrojen]

I just put new leafs and bilstiens in the back. Car shifts alot more now and its driving me nuts. The ride quality is drastically better over worn out springs and airshocks. However I have a heavy foot from time to time and it also has wheel hop. My question is other than axle shift does the parn hard help with axle wrap or will i have to get track bars or ladder bars also?

[@AndyKruseChannel]

The panhard bar will not help with axle wrap, but it will keep it planted and inspire a little confidence under harder cornering. Caltracs might be a good option if you are experiencing wrap, but stiffer springs may do the job too. Due to the design of my spring plates, I cannot easily do something like Caltracs or ladder bars.

[@kdog622]

This bar looks pretty cool! Awhile back, I watched you install a rear sway bar and I put that on my Christmas wish list for a project this winter. Now I see the panhard bar... hmm... my car is pretty much a daily driver around town mainly for my wife. I don't think I need to go as far as a panhard bar, bur I do think I would benefit from the rear sway bar (I've already installed a 1"front sway bar and noticed a huge difference). Your thoughts?

[@AndyKruseChannel]

I was wrong to install a rear sway bar on these types of cars before installing the panhard bar. You may not push the car hard, but the benefits of the panhard bar will be felt before the benefits of a rear sway bar would be felt. While it is easily double the cost, I still recommend the panhard bar.

[@CG-sr9xg]

What springs are you running? I just put in a panhard and Maier leafs. Wheel hop is gone and is solid in the corners, but the ride is much more stiff. Any bump kills my back!

[@AndyKruseChannel]

I have the 4-1/2 Leafs, with the Mid-Eye, part number C5ZZ-5560-4ME. Unfortunately the stiffer springs add to the performance we are looking for when trying to dial in the car, but it's not the end of the road. You can look into upgrading the shocks and see if you can find something with adjustable compression. This might be the improvement you're looking for if you don't want to swap out the Leafs.

[@CG-sr9xg]

@@AndyKruseChannel thanks Andy! I was thinking about the double adjustable QA1 shocks, but they’re pricey!

[@raptorjesus99]

What the difference between this one from Maier racing vs the mike maier on his website?

[@AndyKruseChannel]

As far as performance, they perform the same duty and they are for all purposes the same thing. At the time I purchased this bar, I preferred the design of the Maier Racing bar (this one) over Mike Maier's design. One of the features I really liked was the fluted adjustment bar, where Mike's bar is a straight bar design. You won't be disappointed with either bar.

[@toners68]

Hey Andy what do you have for the rear end ? Gears ? Thanks like the vids. My dad and I have a 68 fastback we are working on just finished up our 347. Doing our homework on rear ends now. Thanks for your time.

[@AndyKruseChannel]

I have a video about the upgrade I did a while back on my channel.

[@toners68]

@@AndyKruseChannel on your fastback ? I seen the one on the coupe

[@AndyKruseChannel]

@@toners68 Yes Fastback. I've got over 300 videos on the channel, it's in there. In fact, just start at the beginning and work your way through each one. 😄

[@toners68]

@@AndyKruseChannel found it just watched it. Is it a 8in or 9in rear end ?

[@AndyKruseChannel]

8

[@JK-lw1yj]

Thinking of installing a panhard bar on my 65 FB and like the Maier Racing one you installed. Did you use the adjustment feature of the bar to center your rear axle at all? If so, how did you do it?

[@AndyKruseChannel]

The adjustment is not designed to center the axle, but the Panhard Bar is designed to keep the axle centered under cornering. The adjustment bar has RH and LH threads on the ends so when the bar is spun (during installation), it puts a preload on the system so there's no slop during driving. If you are looking to center your axle, it needs to be done before installation of the Panhard Bar is complete, and it's done by making sure the axle perch mounts are in the correct location with the leaf spring mount plates that are secured to the axle with u-bolts.

[@JK-lw1yj]

Thanks. Did you have to recenter your axle at all?@@AndyKruseChannel

[@AndyKruseChannel]

@@JK-lw1yj No, those leaf spring mount plates did a great job of centering the axle from left to right. However, just to make sure I didn't have one end of the axle too far forward (or backward), I picked a point on the leaf spring and made sure the distance was the same on each end of the axle to the same point on each leaf. Without doing this, there's a small chance the car could subtly "crab walk". Imagine a scenario where the rear driver tire was a pinch more forward or closer to the front of the car than the passenger rear tire. It's hard to explain in a text box, but the axle is exactly where I want it, centered left to right and centered front to back within the wheel well. :)

[@JK-lw1yj]

Thanks. Great channel. @@AndyKruseChannel

[@elgaragedearturo6388]

My Mustang shakes side to side, it feels like I'm losing control. Do you think the rear Established Bar will fix that problem? Because I can't find a panhard for mustang 1971

[@AndyKruseChannel]

Umm, shaking side to side sounds like you've got something to fix before exploring something like a Panhard Bar. But after you get your car fixed, the Panhard Bar will keep your axle centered under hard cornering. :)

[@fdwsr71]

Does you Mustang have a stock steering gear box?

[@AndyKruseChannel]

As far as I can tell, yes. :)

[@Kualeppi]

My opinion is, what old Shelby Mustangs did not have I don't need on my car. I have Shelby traction bars on my '66 and I think it is enough. Sure you can add panhard bar but if you cruise low speed 95% of time with your Mustang it is not necessary (like I do). It is also quite expensive upgrade with labor. On track use this could bring some benefits. Just my thoughts... 🙂😉

[@AlanKinney-r8x]

But they don’t physically keep an axel from going side to side. Or you are not driving your car as hard around corners. 65 technology is just that…old ideas. If you don’t want to spend the money then don’t. I did exactly what he did and it work’s fantastic, Thank you Andy!

[@AndyKruseChannel]

Traction bars reduce leaf spring wrap under hard acceleration, they don't have any relation to Panhard Bars/Watts Link/4-Link type setups. However, you build your car how you like and don't let anyone make you do something you don't want to do. :)

[@Kualeppi]

@@AndyKruseChannel How do you manage to avoid contact exhaust with panhard bar? Just curious... 😉 Fitment must have been really tight?

[@happyvideos7791]

Wow!

[@AndyKruseChannel]

It's better than that! :)

[@rayk6049]

Indian guy on KZbin level explanation. Thank you.

[@AndyKruseChannel]

Happy to help. :)

[@billbill5743]

Interesting, every car should have a pan hard bar.

[@AndyKruseChannel]

Agreed, I wish the early Mustangs came with a Panhard bar. I'm not convinced the 4-link system implemented later was the right move, but it was at least better than nothing. :)

[@Vintage-Vespa-Miami]

less is more, excellent explanation

[@AndyKruseChannel]

Thanks! :)

[@BATTLECATT00]

TG I been in vocational Auto and a auto tech school back in the 80s. Cause you just destroyed the entire explanation of it, got me lost. Man that escalated fast.

[@AndyKruseChannel]

You're welcome?

[@BATTLECATT00]

@@AndyKruseChannel , A trac bar, old name, is used to center the rear differential based on car type. to maintain it's alignment at center at all times. Helps to prevent dog trailing and wheel hop. After all, the mustang is not using a 4 point control arm layout which by default does not need one. See old RWD GM cars of the 70-early 90s. This is because the upper control arms face outward, and so do the lower ones. The bar your installing is a adjustable trac bar, old name, in which you can fine tune your adjustment in the manner you choose. To either set center better or off set pending for what need. The sway bar is to maintain stability when corning since the vehicle will lift in the turn, that bar will keep it down to maintain better control. I just replaced mine awhile ago cause of the bushing where bad. But I used the stock since I do not race it.

[@scoutdogfsr]

Panhards suck. Shifting the centerline with every oscillation. Especially compromising with semi elliptical leaf springs. Watts link is the only way to go with leafsprings

[@AndyKruseChannel]

Ok.

[@andre49ers]

Honestly I was thinking the same thing for a long time. Everytime the suspension travels it would be shifting. Watts link seems like the real solution. Or by billet mounts and bushings

[@fordtechlife]

🐎🔧👊🙌🇺🇸💪

[@AndyKruseChannel]

Um, yeah! :)

[@lordromel3599]

Ford could have safe lots of mustangs, if this was standard from factory 😂

[@AndyKruseChannel]

Yeah, but the Mustang wasn't the sports car it turned into when it was first released. Although, considering how cheap they could have made an OEM version of the Panhard Bar back in those days, it's too bad they just didn't offer it from the beginning. :)