Angel Talk || s3e11 "Birthday"

[@WSK9002]

Fun Fact: Charisma Carpenter said in a People Magazine Interview for the 20th Anniversary of "Angel" that doing the introduction for the "Cordy" show was her favourite memory playing Cordelia. Carpenter actually moved to Los Angeles to be an actress in Rom Coms, but she never got them when she first began acting.

[@DanielOrme]

I wish we could see just one episode of "Cordy!" I love that opening, it makes me think of dozens of sitcom openings from years past.

[@florabdala8299]

There is a clip! You have to search: "Angel season 3 deleted scene birthday"

[@DanielOrme]

@@florabdala8299 THANK YOU!!! I loved it. Really gets the look and tone of all those single-woman-in-the-big-city sitcoms of the 1990's.

[@TheNoybusiness]

@@DanielOrme They removed it because they didn't think it popped enough, but personally I think it's very funny. And it was filmed on a Dharma & Greg set. The DVD commentary compares Charisma to Mandy Tyler Moore.

[@jeanetteking434]

@@TheNoybusinessMary Tyler Moore?

[@Madbandit77]

​@@TheNoybusiness I thought it was Marlo Thomas from "That Girl".

[@Swenglish]

This gives a whole new weight to this exchange from Gingerbread: Cordelia: How many times have you been knocked out? I swear, one of these times, you're going to wake up in a coma. Giles: Wake up in a...? Oh, never mind.

[@Jcewazhere]

Of course nothing bad could happen from Cordy becoming half demonic. Angel and Doyle sittin in a tree...

[@ibgvox]

11:00 Angel showrunner, David Greenwalt, and Buffy showrunner, Marti Noxon, sang the Cordy! theme.

[@gungho1284]

Ha! That's hilarious. We know Marti could sing because of her bit in OMWF with the parking ticket.

[@stpetie7686]

Yay! Another Skip fan! What a cool, well designed character he is.

[@robertmckenna3994]

The woman playing Cynthia in this episode is Aimee Garcia. Famous for the role of Ella Lopez in Lucifer.

[@ezequielocampo3597]

Loved the braids in the beggining. It is totally a look!

[@jeanetteking434]

When I was a teenager I used to watch charmed on tnt and the last scene of this episode is the first moment I ever saw of Angel right before my usual charmed episode aired. It was pretty cool! Charisma Carpenter is a magnetic presence!

[@TheNoybusiness]

The writer confirmed that in the other universe, Doyle *did* kiss Angel. This is the eleventh episode of the third season of Angel, and the eleventh episode of the third season of Buffy was "The Wish". Angel ends up chained to a wall both times that Cordy wishes for an alternate reality. Some fans complained about Angel being so affected by the visions, which is why the writer wishes they'd been more explicit it wasn't just having the visions but also *not* having Cordy's humanizing influence that led to Angel being in this state. .

[@jeanetteking434]

I’m positive The Wish was episode 9 of season 3 of Buffy because I literally have every episode memorized in order lol.

[@iansmart4158]

Great ep. Really highlights Cordy’s growth! Love it.

[@dplunk13]

This is why Cordy is a top 3 character for me, just under Buffy and Spike. She and Buffy were the shallow mean girls who had huge responsibility put on them. And over and over again they chose to carry the weight, knowing the sacrifice they were making. She's an icon.

[@thalia9789]

Doyle's attraction for Angel was confirmed in season 1, so it's interesting to find out he probably would've fell in love with him if Cordy wasn't there

[@kevinbre7563]

Just when you thought Cordy could be more iconic... demon powers!

[@knowledge-girl]

The visions did affect Doyle. They were "great splitting migraines that come with pictures."

[@hardybryan]

We aren't given a percentage on how much demon is in her. I will point out that Doyle felt pain and got headaches from the visions and Cordy barely feels anything anymore. But who knows if that's a hint or just a writing choice, since she was specifically made part demon to handle the visions apparently.

[@leah6849]

And with one giant binge of your buffy/angel reactions, i am all caught up. Little sneaky, sneaky move to have Cordy only hear half of what Angel said about her, pushing her to an alternative life.

[@antonbrakhage490]

The Wonder Woman Cordy on the cake is foreshadowing, because at the end of the episode she gains the power of flight (or at least floating).

[@TheNoybusiness]

Cordy said yes because hearing (out of context) Angel saying she was too weak to handle being a champion got to her. She must have had her own doubts already, and her closest friend seemingly not believing in her would amplify them.

[@jb888888888]

17:25 we will in about a season. [not a spoiler because Alley has already seen it.]

[@DanielOrme]

I've seen this called the "sliding doors" trope, after a 1998 Gwyneth Paltrow movie, the idea that one change, one small, seemingly insignificant, incident or decision can create an entirely different reality. As Anya once said, "Alternate realities are neat!"

[@slayergirl6983]

Just wanted you to know that Alyson Hannigan is on Dancing with the stars😊

[@Buffy8Fan]

Cordelia's a demon now. First time through I never saw that coming for her arc.

[@boretrk]

She dated Xander, should have been obvious.

[@Buffy8Fan]

@@boretrk SPOILERS THROUGH COMICS AND BOTH SHOWS That allowed me to see what happens to her in S5 more than being a demon. No character Xander dates hasn't had that happen. Even first time through I thought the worst on this episode, but forgot by _You're Welcome._ But you are right. Your's should've been more obvious.

[@MrSupertallblackman]

Skip didn't say "half" demon he said "part" demon which could more or less demon or half. I tend to think it's more because she barely reacts to the visions after this.

[@A_Planner_and_a_Dreamer]

12:15 That’s Ella Lopez from Lucifer.

[@Madbandit77]

Aimee Garcia, who played Ella, and Freddie Prinze Jr., SMG's husband, were in the Netflix rom-com, "Christmas With You".

[@antonbrakhage490]

A little detail of note here: Angel inheriting the visions in the alternate timeline could imply that he kissed Doyle.

[@TheNoybusiness]

Mere Smith, the writer, said yes, he did.

[@menachemsalomon]

Ah, the return of Skip, the commuting demon. I wonder if his appearance here was planned or retconned, and how much his future appearance(s) may have been planned from the very first time we saw him, or at least from this point.

[@trufamilybromontqc]

i love this episode and seeing doyle just breaks my heart :(

[@patrickholt2270]

I'm not sure if this is before or after Charisma Carpenter told the showrunners she was pregnant, which caused them to have to rewrite the season arc making Joss Whedon angry. Just to bear in mind that adjustments were made, because they couldn't replace her in the role of Cordelia Chase to continue the planned arc. Unfortunately since the show aired the row, perhaps the abusive work environment that Joss Whedon was responsible for, has become dirty laundry aired in public, so it has to be taken into consideration in understanding an extended number of episodes. At the time we didn't know about it, so we took the stories as is, and perhaps misinterpreted or rated them unfairly, not knowing what had been intended. Writers must adjust to these things, and you can't tell a young woman she can't have a child for the sake of her job, although plenty of bad employers do demand exactly that. I do wonder what the arc would have been otherwise, but good enough writers ought to be able to make anything work, and writing in anger is hardly likely to improve any story. Real life comes first, otherwise what is art even for?

[@Madbandit77]

No argument here. Charisma's not the first actress to get pregnant while working on a TV series (Valerie Bertinelli on the original "One Day At A Time") and she hasn't been the last (Missy Peregym twice on "FBI" and Danielle Panabaker on "The Flash") because you had mature showrunners dealing with those situations. JW basically made his fantasy world about HIM and didn't much care about the feelings of those that worked to bring his world to life. What he did was petty, and it's ironic he ended up being the Big Bad of his story.

[@patrickholt2270]

I'm just a shame all around. A person isn't just the bad thing they did once, and I believe in redemption and forgiveness, especially in terms of Whedon's value as a third wave feminist writer, even if I don't like his anti-theism, or at least anti-Christianism. @@Madbandit77

[@TheNoybusiness]

It's before. Charisma told the showrunners about her pregnancy between Seasons 3 and 4.

[@lurker1316]

Episodes that hit different after seeing through 5x12.

[@chaoscat82]

I wonder if this means Drusilla is a servant of the powers that be?

[@TheNoybusiness]

She's just naturally psychic, and her having visions doesn't generally help the good guys, ex. when she gets a warning that Jenny is seeking to re-ensoul Angelus, which TPTB would presumably not tell her. Also, her visions always seem more like impressions than clear, solid visions.

[@BinaryHedgehog]

I love this episode!

[@Blahwoof85]

Cordy's alternate universe makes me sad because if she never joins Team Angel she never gets trapped in Pylea, so they never go there to rescue her, so they never find Fred, so she's either still a slave or dead.

[@Dunybrook]

Since Cordelia has known that the visions are killing her for a while it makes sense that she'd be quick to jump at an alternative life. Knowing this show there's no way this doesn't have negative consequences though.

[@TheNoybusiness]

She did it because hearing (out of context) Angel saying she was too weak to handle being a champion got to her. She must have had her own doubts already, and her closest friend seemingly not believing in her would amplify them.

[@quest4050]

The braids work.

[@jennyk885]

Will there be reactions or a video on the new Buffy audio series slayers?

[@desireeportmann8393]

I love your hair 😍

[@Trikeboy2]

It starts. The biggest FU in the show.

[@TheNoybusiness]

This (and the rest of Season 3) is before Charisma's pregnancy. The storyline hasn't been punitively altered yet. Also, Tim Minear said that if Charisma hadn't gotten pregnant, Cordelia would have fought Angel herself, so her story wouldn't necessarily have been better for her character.

[@menachemsalomon]

@@TheNoybusiness I wondered what the original plan for S4 was. Was it C doing whatever J ended up doing? I've also wondered how far ahead the S4 storyline was planned. Was it from Skip's first appearance, or only from this one?

[@TheTappingRaven]

If the only way to get the visions is through a kiss, how did Angel get em from Doyle?😚💋 My theory is that since Cordelia never met Angel, Angel and Doyle's friendship became something more?😏

[@Nexusofgeek]

they never said thats the only way

[@TheNoybusiness]

@@Nexusofgeek Mere Smith confirmed he did kiss him.

[@giuliapicchiotti]

Hi @alleybox, i will see you at episode twelve of next season cause from this point on i CANNOT WATCH THIS SHOW ANYMORE !!, even do i watch it the first time i watch this show, I CAN'T RELIVE WHAT HAPPENS THIS SEASON.... I CAN'T!!! .

[@bruceboa6384]

SPOILERS - - - - - - - - - - - I don't know what is more upsetting. The destruction of Cordy's character or what Whedon did to Charisma.

[@Madbandit77]

​@@bruceboa6384 I just recently wrapped up watching the Buffyverse and I'm confounded by how JW thought that his own fantasy world was all about him. That pisses me off as a writer and a television fan.

[@TheNoybusiness]

@@Madbandit77 Fortunately it's the product of all the other writers and actors, too.

[@samanthas8340]

For me, the pivotal moment is this season finale. So I'm a bit confused.

[@TheNoybusiness]

@@samanthas8340 I think you're all a bit early. Charisma wasn't pregnant until next season, so the arc in the second eleven episodes of Season 3 was going as originally planned. In regards to what the arc was supposed to be in Season 4, I've heard both that Cordelia was supposed to be evil herself instead of possessed by Jasmine (which would not have been good) and that she was supposed to wake up and kill Jasmine and rejoin the team (which would have been good).

[@nikolavanzettiteslasacco4991]

Love your reaction 🙌❤🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟

[@darkdg4106]

The braids, add 2 more to each side.

[@chetstevensq]

Yea, let's add that thumbnail to the time capsule and pull it out later to see how its aged...

[@Thebuffshaman]

The braids look good, guess they're gonna be gone though.

[@samanthas8340]

Love Dennis and the Cordy sitcom! As for Skip, he is something else.😅 Wondering if anyone else got spammed with The Untold Realities "documentary" during Alley's reaction? Clearly anti-trans peopaganda, and I'm super disturbed now...

[@sirbruce70]

You're lying to yourself.