Angular’s Third Era is…weird

Angular is...quite the framework. Not my favorite thing but that doesn't mean you should ignore the innovation happening over there.
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S/O Ph4se0n3 for the awesome edit 🙏

[@elephant_888]

"Is This The End Of Angular?" I want to be able to trust your titles man. I don't like or dislike Angular, but I loathe click-bait titles.😞

[@theophiled]

yup very annoying.

[@recycledsoldier]

Click-bait sells. Make a stupid face for the thumbnail and proclaim something is “dead, the best, destroyed”. I win button for clicks.

[@squirel52]

Just remember Betteridge's law of headlines: Any headline that ends in a question mark can be answered by the word no.

[@ktru3886]

that reminds me of the DeArrow extension that replaces titles and thumbnails with more accurate ones. I'm not sure how well it is crowdsourced but you might wanna give it a try :D

[@baconmanthelegend]

@@recycledsoldier what is that cringey ass face? It's kind of disturbing what he does with his face for the thumbnails

[@ToastRusk]

I clicked on the button for signals as you suggested and sadly got unsubscribed :(

[@mr.fearless7594]

Me too.

[@du42bz]

And I'm staying unsubscribed now bc i got tired of these clickbaity titles

[@nixoncode]

c'mon Theo, we're beyond clickbaits at this point, the video is interesting and I'll probably watch it. just title it correctly

[@_____case]

Wiz was designed by Malte Ubl, who is now the CTO of Vercel.

[@complexity5545]

Thanks. That has some very good informative weight.

[@nameq]

4:25

[@teamgartz-motorsports6881]

The bundle size is not about network, it’s about the memory available on the devices that consumes it. Usually the processor for the browser is different from the one that process the video, and TVs and other devices highly cheap out on the processor and memory to execute browser. Therefore a smaller bundle and less instructions are a huge win in performance, more than network transfer.

[@alvaromady]

Angular is actually better than before especially recently

[@AngularUniversity]

Great video. 👍 At a certain you mention that Angular is slow. I'm not sure if this is widely known outside of Angular, but that is not the case nowadays. On the bundle size side, Angular allows you to easily lazy load every single page of an application in a easy and developer friendly way with standalone components, just use loadComponent in the router and that's it, the screen runs on a separate bundle. If you want you can also load parts of the template of a component conditionally using @defer. For example, load a PDF generating library only if a button is clicked. On the change detection side there are no significant performance differences to other frameworks, especially with OnPush and also with default change detection. Soon with signal-based change detection there will be full blown fine-grained reactivity. 👍

[@varagor23]

Also, Angular's performance (at least in synthetic benchmarks) is pretty much on par with React.

[@user-hx1lp6fc9r]

Hot reload when?

[@AngularUniversity]

@@varagor23 I agree, and as far as I know, yes, and also with other similar frameworks, the differences are marginal and not noticeable. 👍 Performance is for me not a criteria to choose between the top frameworks, they have been mostly equivalent from that standpoint since years now, but the myth that Angular is slow still remains by some reason. A framework like Qwik on the other hand is noticeable faster, just because it's built in a completely different way based on resumability. 👍

[@AngularUniversity]

@@user-hx1lp6fc9r It's already there with the Angular CLI 👍

[@nick.h7566]

Your content is 1000% better @AngularUniversity ❤

[@JPeetjuh]

Please, just title your video "Angular is merging with Wiz?" - I'll watch it. Stop being so cheap and clickbaity.

[@MarcLucksch]

Sadly, people like you are the minority, and click bait titles still make a huge difference for engagement. So don’t blame the creators, blame the users not clicking on boring titles and KZbin for not fixing this in their algorithm

[@Dekutard]

i don’t think creators have a choice. sure, we’ll watch it. but the people getting recommended his vids may not. i get the frustration of being misled on vids in which the title actually has nothing to do with the content OR is in opposition with the content, but this is not that bad. just click on the video to really see what it’s about before deciding to watch or save it. video descriptions are usually better. you don’t need to have the expectation titles will 100% match the content. what’s wrong with being a bit more flashy for the sake of the channels growth?

[@gadgetboyplaysmc]

Can't agree more lol

[@_ilearn]

Yess. I guess he wants to attract audiences who read article - Which is better? HTML or CSS?

[@jostasizzi818]

He needs money man what do you expect from a KZbinr who loves to put out cheap things and misleading people of bunch just to earn quick bucks

[@MikkelrumSkovgaardPetersen]

"The flexibility of React..." yea that died with nextjs. React has turned into the thing it advertised not to be a long time ago.

[@PhillipLippi]

yeah, even in the Reactjs documentation they recommend using a react framework lol

[@varagor23]

As and Angular dev, it's really exciting to finally start getting a bunch of W's after years of stagnation. The last year and a half has been wild and looks like there's plenty more to come.

[@SquelpDiscovery]

KZbin’s mobile web is so outdated, I’m really surprised they bothered updating it lol. KZbin mobile web feels like it hasn’t been updated in years.

[@MelroyvandenBerg]

so now it's not outdated anymore :D

[@Matty0187]

They updated it because breaking it would be less impactful than desktop or mobile

[@Sameer.Trivedi]

@@MelroyvandenBerg Only the techstack changed, it is still bad and outdated from the UX perspective.

[@chiefkanakana]

You realize it’s intentional, so people will use native platforms without adblock, like yt app?

[@zapphoddbubbahbrox5681]

you've really got wonderful editors... be proud

[@BlockCylinder]

They're definitely going to lay off 60% of both teams.

[@angularrocks]

Angular Rocks 🤘 p.s the use of signals was discussed back in 2015 withing an Angular Team, proposed by Rob Eisenberg, who was part of the team at that time.

[@recycledsoldier]

I actually like Angular. BUUUUT I'm a C# engineer with a lot of experience with RDMBS and C#. Something about Angular really clicks with me where React just seems overly complex. I'm not saying React is bad. I was actually contracted to work on a massive React project but the project layout and all of the different folders and things to implement state management seemed needlessly complex. I will say that I was able to start a mini project and ended up using a vertical slice architecture over React and it made the project much easier. I think my biggest problem was just project sprawl. "Ok, no go here and edit the reducer. Go here to edit actions. Go here to edit tests. Go over here for sagas. Now go over here, etc." Again, for someone used to it, I'm sure it's great, but as someone coming in fresh it was really overwhelming. I plan to stick with learning React and hoping I hit that "click" moment since that's where all the jobs are but I'm really happy to see Angular getting some much-needed love. Thanks for covering it!

[@HackersRUs]

This sounds like a problem with specifically Redux more than react. I hated Redux for exactly the same reasons you described. Where I'm working now is actually using both Redux and Angular and I hate everything about it

[@recycledsoldier]

@@HackersRUsredux + angular sounds like hell.

[@willstew]

I've noticed this pattern of C# and Angular a lot

[@paarma1752]

We used to use Angular a lot (I've also developed with htmx, React and Next), but now it's Blazor all the way. We are developing saas mostly, with complex analytics related features. It has blasted our productivity through the roof and, compared to Angular + AspNetCore solutions, there is like 75% less code needed. Nowadays even thinking about developing the frontend with js causes me stress. Of course one can still use js wherever it's needed with interop.

[@BaffledAlways]

​@@HackersRUs you're 100% right, we use angular and actually struggled when we started out because .NET developers heavily overused redux and did things the way they were used to in .NET that probably didn't make sense on the frontend (and in some cases didn't make sense in .NET either but that's another matter)

[@StephenMoreira]

Very happy with Angular. Looking forward to even more innovations.

[@aLfRemArShMeLlOw]

KZbin mobile might be a very small percentage of their traffic, but it's probably still a massive amount of traffic compared to most websites.

[@seannewell397]

Theo whatchu talkin about for unproven at 16:40 ? Knockout observable and computeds anyone? MVVM? SolidJS for years and years? We don't need a YT case study to "prove signals" bruv; we also don't need a redux or RTK for signals, afaik. They just are such a profoundly good primitive that you can create your own boundaries naturally with composition and normal patterns (DDD/MVVM/Composition). Just like huge state machines / RTKs/reducers/webs of interconnected state all break down, signals are the same - it comes down to system arch and design to keep it scalable. Signals are much closer to events than state, and events in the browser are king. Video games often stop at events and polling frame by frame. Long live signals

[@jonnyeh]

I worked at YT until recently and while I was aware of the move to "the new Wiz" and "signals", not once did anyone mention Angular. This really does sound like they're just replacing Angular with the new version of Wiz. I did like how their screenshot of the YT Desktop app was about 10 years old.

[@mathesonstep]

I have been thinking of editing down tech conferences for a while but always been terrified of copyright

[@tehArgento]

The subscribe button did indeed not change

[@freon27able]

I'm (mostly) an Angular dev and I watch your stuff to keep up to date with the wider FE landscape. It's really cool to see you talking about Angular at the minute because it does feel like an exciting time for the framework and I think it would be a shame if creators ignored it just because it's Angular.

[@EduardoEscarez]

15:12 In reality that isn't a problem, because YT can define a precise profile for a feature phone to use its native video support, so it can benefit of both low size (if it uses relative new codecs) and not being CPU/battery intensive. The biggest PITA will always be bandwidth stability, because that poses a bigger problem related with buffering, but these feature phone have at minimum 512 MB of RAM (some of them 4GB!) so a well encoded video shouldn't be problematic. Running JS probably is more complex, so a smaller bundle is way better.

[@MelroyvandenBerg]

ahhhhh clickbait title

[@jacoblockwood4034]

It worked, evidently

[@sophektounn6422]

Theo, I'm working on something like that, to make a cliff notes version of a video, using simple trimming features, right on youtube.

[@Saeid-Za]

16:21 I do think that we have seen the signal based reactivity scale much better ! A fine grained reactivity model is the main reason we could drop VDOM, increase performance, reduce bundle size and even opens new ways to compose UI logic using these new primitives. VueUse is a good example. And we have seen all major Frameworks (well no, not react) collectively bet on this new model, be it vue composition api, solid signal, angular signal or even svelte runes - which was interesting that they move away from compiler magic and chose explicit reactivity model instead of an implicit one. For these reasons I do bet on this model and it's scalability. Thanks for the video ❤

[@brssnkl]

They were testing the highlighting like sub buttons feature long long time ago. Unless they re-wrote it, it's not signals :D

[@HoNow222]

Angular era is sooo good rn

[@TayambaMwanza]

Btw Qwik was inspired by Wiz

[@zehph]

I'm really curious about how he enabled the bang search definition with the Arc command+t thingy 🤔

[@TayambaMwanza]

Its a good year to pick up Angular

[@paarma1752]

I must say, Angular is definitely one of the frameworks that exist.

[@jsonkody]

Google: "for this position you need at least 8 years experience in Wiz" Me: "what is "Wiz!?" 😐 Google: "Oh, it's our internal tool/framework" Me: 😑

[@belkamax05]

Transition from 1.5.8 to 2nd was so smooth experience. Unforgettable and unforgivable to a point, that I rather create my own JS framework, then come back to it.

[@SaintChachki]

Blackberry 10 had a similar approach to KaiOS, in terms of web development, but I abandoned that project when. I noticed that it was a waste of time and effort

[@ISKLEMMI]

It'll be really cool to see the performance improvements the Angular + Wiz teams will be able to bring to Angular in the near future. Right now, among mainstream frameworks, only React performs worse.

[@ayoubkrt5018]

U can take a look at qwik for a preview of it, ofc it solely depends if they go with just resumability or go a step further like qwik with $ lazy execution

[@TayambaMwanza]

Angular is performing better than Svelte and Vue ATM last I checked

[@sunsettrance7841]

@@TayambaMwanza how so? I've been an Angular developer for a little over 1 year and I love it! But performance wise, you have to keep all the modules in check because by default the bundle size is too big in itself, I've had a huge project that was poorly optimised and was actually closed due to that... I recently started learning Vue3, as I heard React is cancer both for maintainability and developer experience, just to grasp more in the Frontend area (it's more niche and highly performant, also easy to learn from what I've heard). But people seem to complain how Vue3 ruined Vue2, wtf?

[@arijitRC7]

Will you ever pick angular for any of your projects? And why?

[@cocoscacao6102]

Angular scales better than other frameworks, but it's quality ceiling is lower. Please subscribe.... riiiight

[@darmou]

Taking a 'wiz' on Angular lol

[@seannewell397]

Yo at around 15:00 you sayin' something whack. Leas JS means u start content stream faster, and YT will ramp up so 260/480 playback can start (or roll an ad 🤮) and it aint gonna be Mb with google's crazy compression and streaming caps. Just Kb to get started and they squeeze hard - be good to Wireshark to see if they optimized for first packet on initial stream or not (ie in a handshake or something too)

[@rajarshikhatua100]

kaiOS is extremely popular in India with jio phone, with around 20$ you get a 4g phone with youtube, facebook, whatsapp etc and it works great. make a video about it

[@theacorn7240]

i don’t even write javascript i just like the videos

[@int4_t]

18:57 have you heard of sponserblock?

[@grim.reaper]

I have used wiz and it’s pretty cool

[@MelroyvandenBerg]

5 Mbit/s is enough for 1080p stream, correct?

[@AfolabiJude]

For them to agree with Angular being more focused on enterprise, you can't more honest with your product

[@ShaharHarshuv]

I adore the way to prompt your viewers to susbcribe

[@ykhi]

qwik was created because misko was inspired by wiz so this is quite interesting

[@StingSting844]

KZbin mobile would still have 300 million users. That's a massive win for any framework to be used like that. I checked the mobile site on both chrome and brave browsers. It's still stuttering heavily

[@marcialabrahantes3369]

Finally something that was only applicable internally had external side effects, jeje😅

[@QubeCat]

What is your wikipedia theme?

[@MadsterV]

Server side rendering, server side components, data binding.... all we are missing are GOTOs and we're back to Visual Basic baby!

[@kwii22789]

Sounds about right to merge with "wizz" next time they can merge with with doodoo next

[@SouhailRAZZOUK]

About the point you invoked about "if an app is serving Mbs, what's the point of optimizing it's code into Kbs" I think you've glossed over the fact that you had your answer when they spoke about the performance gain on skimming and navigating inside the video 😅 I mean that, there's no relationship (or there shouldn't be) in most cases between the size of the app bundle and the assets served after the app load, in the case of KZbin, people can/may tolerate a slow loading video, but not a slow loading UI that loads a slow video 😊

[@spicynoodle7419]

Oh boi, it's time to write a web app with Angular v1, v2 and v3 at the same time!

[@caoutchouc-cc]

i use YT only up to 480p to reduce bandwidth.

[@AustinShoecraft]

Did my part by testing out signals here, can confirm, the subscribe button worked.

[@virtuesus]

the signal didn't work on this video lmao

[@MichaelScharf]

…meteor it’s using signals called tracker since 2012, mobx is based atoms which are a kind of signals. Why is signals an unproven concept?

[@nikomitk8091]

15:08 i'm watching a lot of KZbin on bad train wifi

[@Gooblehusain]

but youtube still one of the heaviest web app. I have low spec laptop, and i always avoid to open youtube when using that laptop.

[@flogginga_dead_horse4022]

I was using Angular partly for the stability and now ... ugh

[@ossipetz]

So there is another rewrite of some enterprise application that no one has time for? Is keeping the name but nothing else actually the same framework?

[@RasmusSchultz]

Signals are unproven? Knockout. Backbone. These were widely used?

[@JunYamog]

What about GWT? Google Web Toolkit

[@_____case]

Long been deprecated.

[@user72974]

@@_____caseStill used in Gmail though if I recall.

[@reginaldbellas703]

Battle is now with Devin not bashing angular framework wars over now Ai war

[@diogotrindade444]

We should call it Wiz. Angular is dead after this.

[@lcarsos]

Wasn't the Wiz the Michael Jackson Wizard of Oz?

[@St0rMsk]

Theo: I don't like to be the one betting a big project on unproven thing. Also Theo: Anyways, let's build this new Upload Thing on unstable Next App router. 😀😎 (To be fair it is stable now)

[@t3dotgg]

My "bleed responsibility" vid pissed a lot of people off but IMO addresses this fairly. Something like Solid or Svelte is an inherently riskier bet than ANYTHING Next is developing, simply because of the resources and adoption levels it has reached. Angular's signals are similar in this way. Even if they're experimental and broken, they're a safe bet, simply due to the existing adoption and investment into them

[@TurtleKwitty]

There's nothing interesting about signals only needing arrays and closures XD They're essentially just signals, aka an array of functions to callback when something happens when you get down to it, closures means it can handle stateful callbacks, that's all there is to it

[@JohnVandivier]

Open Sauced on Top!

[@Shogoeu]

When you said "subscribe" the button stayed uninterested as ever.

[@oribennett6520]

I watched this on KZbin mobile Web and the button did glow

[@_engid]

Theo's vids mean I don't have to be on twitter anymore

[@holly_hacker]

The call-out for people to rip youtube videos without permission, slightly edit them, and reupload them while explicitly saying you don't care about copyright laws is disgusting. I know I shouldn't expect much from someone who built a career on reading blog posts verbatim while interjecting minor comments, but still. Really disappointing.

[@wlockuz4467]

As if a new framework every day wasn't worse enough, Now frameworks are fusing together.

[@sonicjoy2002]

why do we need so many different choices in JS that do the same thing, especially with the fundamental things like frameworks, package repos etc. developers should not split their time on different things to become just mediocre, we need specialisation and we also need marketable skills, and some of us have a life too.

[@ChrisOfSDUB]

TCL produced the Blackberry devices until a few years ago, same as they do with Nokia. They don't own them.

[@liquidpebbles]

To be fair mobile KZbin is great. I only watch on the browser. I have the KZbin app disabled on my phone.

[@liqo12]

Angulariz or Wangular?

[@fifty6737]

it does already exist its called QWIK and its amazing

[@baconmanthelegend]

You got me to check it out and you are right this shit looks amazing

[@kobibr9362]

please keep the words "Angular is dead for a day it will be worth saying". They are pushing it as much as they used to push GWT. I remember the day I went to manager to tell him GWT support will be dropped in 3 months. GWT is a dead technology. I was soo happy. Somehow the thing(GWT) is still alive and has support but we got rid of it when management still worried. It changed the team and reflected on others project once we moved away from it. I work a lot in Java environment which mean Angular everywhere my eyes can see. I have always hated the routing on angular, love the pipes, multi stage forms can be hard.

[@snivels]

So what now? Wangular?

[@guygeva7375]

I saw the "Angular is DEAD" item in your notion when I watched a stream this week, and I'm surprised at how much more clickbaity your notes are than the actual video

[@KashinathPai]

🙂

[@zwanz0r]

Theo, question. I don't see the subscribe button. I only see the unsubscribe button 😢

[@madsxcva]

theo is a true angular hater

[@botondvasvari5758]

angular is the best react is a cryptic shit

[@mdfalexis]

Angular is the Java of the web

[@dmitriyobidin6049]

Tbh, I don't know anything about wiz, so this news means nothing...

[@Me-vc4sf]

Yeah yeah every thing should be just react and next js

[@SchioAlves]

If the KZbin team is interested in improving performance on "low-end" devices, maybe they should uncouple resolution from framerate and finally let users enjoy FHD/QHD on their perfectly capable device that only struggles with the useless 60fps video of a guy talking...

[@m3po22]

1:58 React devs have been saying this since 2015 but Angular has been faster than React since 2017. It's not a high bar.

[@minor12828]

Lies all over the place. So sad to see this

[@ikbo]

Wiz, Angular, Polymer, Lit all doing the same thing. Absolutely Google way of doing things.

[@sahbibg9680]

So that’s why GCP console is buggy and slow like sh*t

[@pedrofernandes2005]

Angular probably not the fastest, but way you are implying here sounds like it's slow. You've been out of the loop for quite a while. lol I prefer you would make such statements when knowing exactly what you are talking about.

[@arden6725]

angular is 60% slower than solid on average while using 200% more memory

[@mohitcodeswell]

Click bait is ok from the creators side but it makes the user feel bad about the creator (user starts hating)

[@pongstr]

geeez... angular+nx ... no thanks

[@ThannMalin]

Been fan of you for a while but you keep throw me Click bait stuff, Unsub