Anne Vavasour & Elizabeth Trentham: Ladies' Night at the Blue Boar

[@taihastings3097]

Please can we have more...it nourishes the mind and sprit!

[@Nope.Unknown]

I love this show! I HATE the time limits!! Talk for however long you want - we'll listen. And pay - get this on Patron if that is the issue!!

[@alainaaugust1932]

Fabulous. Oh, please don’t make us have to wait a year for Part 2! It doesn’t have to be in Women’s History Month. Maybe it’s time for “women’s” history to just be a part of regular, ordinary, 11-months-a-year history. What do you think?

[@daniellemcneill1815]

I could listen to this all day! Thank you everyone! ❤ riveting!

[@proftea9905]

Great conversation - thanks to you all

[@mississaugataekwondo8946]

We are lobbying for a follow up.

[@lenorejones8339]

I would really like to see a portrait of Ann Vavasar and De Vere s son and k now more about his life

[@Kanchenzonga]

Recently it occurred to me that RomEO and JuliET contain the initials for Edward Oxford and Elizabeth Trentham.

[@betttrbeth]

I have Anne Vavasour in my extended Ancestry tree. I love the Britney comparison. She seems to make bad decisions. Do we know much about her husbands?

[@peckerwood6078]

A very well rounded discussion with so very different backgrounds leading to the three sixty perspective on the entanglements of Edward. Dorothea likely scores the greatest strike against the myths which are propagated by anti-Oxfordians about the Flighty Non-Serious person deVere is held out to be. The Real Estate manipulation which Dorothea re-casts as being a "Consolidation" and restructuring of his holdings puts the lie to the slander of him which has been bandied about. deVere having sold his principle home to not less than 11 buyers, which created such a conundrum for the court that their only option was to dismiss all claims, and ultimately his being awarded uncontested ownership after being paid by all was and is a keynote aspect of his unique psychological virtues that allowed him to play chess while others thought the game was chequers. The work in the research trenches lends gravitas to Bonners highlighting of the Will reference, the most pregnant piñata to come out of this interchange. Bonner framing of Trenthams' "Dumb Man" for us gives him an almost Odysseus like quality and as "Noman" cannot be subpoenaed let alone indicted, upon whom she bequeaths unspecified, but likely copious, funds during his lifetime. This is a tremendous finding for a new direction to pursue and hunt for the real Edward deVere. The only reservation would be to view a woman at that time as being a "Teenager" and unsophisticated in the ways of court or without the wiles of a woman at 18yrs of age, with which to undo a man should she desire. Her fecundity leaves a trail of heirs likewise worthy of pursuit. More to be said of Anne Vavasour I'm sure. Thank you Ladies Truely illuminating. PS Things never really change. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_Man

[@flannschneider7589]

Hi guys, nice show, I always like to watch it. But one thing: is it possible that we are completely barking up the wrong tree when discussing a "dumb-man"? This "dumb-man" Elisabeth Trentham mentions in her will is a TOMB man, as I suppose, a caretaker for her grave. She wants to send him money, just like her other servants. On the whole, the Oxford theory only makes sense if we imagine Trentham, her son Henry de Vere and Henry Wriothsley as people who want NOTHING to do with the characters in the sonnets. The "Bastard Shame" that Shakespeare accuses his Dark Lady, presumably his wife, of in sonnet 127 is the real reason for a cover-up of his true identity.

[@rosemma34]

I thought the Dark Lady was QE1, Hank Whittemore agrees

[@CulinarySpy]

Interesting thought about the 'dumb man' - makes sense for ongoing care of her tomb and I wonder if there are records to confirm this in her case?

[@irtnyc]

What color was Elizabeth Trentham's hair? Her father and successful brother? It is notable that the 18th Earl of Oxford's hair is apparently black.

[@ToddsBookTube91]

Ladies Night!

[@HigherChannel]

Please dont apologise for Edward de Vere' s action,especially in case of Anne Vavasour. I mean, everything I read about his life, he displayed traits of an extreme narcissist, he was slandered many times, by different people, including his best friends, he betrays his best friends and their treason plot openly in front of Queen, he kills a man when he is 17yo, and leaves his pregnant wife destitute. He is estranged from his own wife for many years, he recklessly spends his fortunes, he is put into house arrest a few times. He is also accused of ordering a murder of his servant. I mean, he is a wreck of a person. I would add, withour an evidence, that he might have been a peadofile as well ( the idea that as a young playwright Edward has access to boy's church choir, as boys played female parts-- peadofilies just tend to hover a lot around where there are children- just sounds very creepy to me, and in sonnents he is obsessed with " fair youth"). Parts in Pericles, scenes in the whorehouse are soft porn, and completely creepy. He deals with incest and cannibalism in his plays. I don't want to be judging him, but please don't apologise for De Vere. Let's look at him objectively. The way he ditches Anne Vavasour is monumental. I know some of you argued Queen treated him terribly, possibly killed his father. I would argue that Edward was possibly Elizabeth' s illegitimate child, considering how many times she saves his life. Whenever he want to fight, in military, he never ends up at front line, even when he desperately seeks that position. I just think he would have hanged many times for all trouble he was causing, had Elizabeth had not turned a blind eye, and this is all even before he gets £1000 annually from Elizabeth, we assume for staged histories, as Elizabeth's war mongering and propaganda machine.

[@amymoore4693]

It was She, E. Ver.