June 30 - Henry VIII and Catherine Howard's ill-fated northern progress

[@kimmaried.7313]

You know you are a super fan of Tudor history when you are at a family function and you get the notification of this video and you go hide from everyone to watch it 😂.

[@anneboleynfiles]

Ha! That's so funny and so sweet too! Thank you!

[@Sabeaa]

😂🎉❤

[@christinedarrock8486]

What surprises me about Henry VIII is his gullibility. How could he not have noticed that Katherine Howard was not a virgin? He accused Anne of Cleves of this. He hinted that Katherine of Aragon may not have been one. Yet the one person who clearly could not own that title, had somehow hoodwinked him. There's no fool like an old fool!

[@RobertoLorenzPianist]

From what we know, Henry thought of Anne of Cleves as "already deflowered" because her skin and breasts were in bad quality. Catherine Howard was still in her teens (and not a foreigner), so Henry might have taken it for granted that this young english noble rose was untouched. However, there are ways to fake the loss of virginity, for example she could have griesed her vagina with a little blood before their first intercourse. On the other hand, she could have sexually fooled around with Dereham and others before without having actual intercourse. We don't know what exactly happened there.

[@astrinymris9953]

The Anne of Cleves/Catherine Howard thing leads me to believe that Henry really did not know the difference. According to 'A Song of Ice and Fire', highborn girls were likely to lose their hymens riding on a horse, and all Henry's known lovers were from noble families, and presumably knew how to ride. So maybe he'd never encountered an intact maidenhead before in his life. Of course, ASOIAF has dragons, zombies, and male/female identical twins, so maybe GRRM shouldn't be taken as a reliable source. ;-D

[@marionarnott750]

Sexual slurs against difficult but innocent women are par for the course for a certain type of man.

[@tiffanysamuels279]

@@astrinymris9953 blood after sex isn't suppose to happen. That is not as common as people think.

[@astrinymris9953]

@@tiffanysamuels279 All the more reason for Henry not to grasp the difference, then!

[@pollydolly9723]

I find it difficult to feel empathy for Henry in his having an adulterous wife. 🤷‍♀️

[@anneboleynfiles]

Me too!

[@maryh4650]

I often wonder just how adulterous she had been. It was a dangerous thing to do , especially when married to henry. I think Catherine died because Henry was annoyed she wasnt a virgin.

[@maryannlockwood7806]

🇺🇸 You would think once he had his heir he wouldn’t have found it necessary to marry again. But I guess he had to keep up appearances.🇬🇧

[@sarahhardcastle2433]

Maryann Lockwood one male heir wasn’t enough kings wanted a least two as child mortality was rife so Henry wanted a duke of York.

[@TheTam0613]

@@maryannlockwood7806 All ruling families needed as many sons as possible. You at least needed two-an heir and a spare. And Henry knew how important this was as he himself was King through being the "spare".

[@pamelamorgan7354]

Thank you! I enjoy each day in Tudor History! 😺

[@AshleyLebedev]

Unbelievable to picture the spectacle of 4000 on the road up the whole of England. Can you even imagine 😫 So amazing, wish I could have been there to see the prestige of them in person, walking from village to village and blowing the minds of everyday common life and the ‘common’ people. ✨

[@aimee2234]

I'm with Dolly Polly. It's so very hard for me to feel bad for Henry at all. Thank you, Claire!

[@TheTam0613]

I'm with you both as well! I don't feel badly for him at all!

[@chiaroscuroamore]

I can only imagine the impact that Henry VIII’s progress had upon the land and townships as they travelled. So many animals and people needing to be fed and watered and cleaned up after. All of the people they would have needed such as washer women, body servants, horse servants, cooks, livestock to eat etc. It must have been a sight to behold (and hear and smell too)! Then to have James not turn up at York. Henry VIII must have been put out. (I don’t blame James for not showing up, because among other reasons, we don’t know what Henry would have tried to do to him). Then Archbishop Thomas Cranmer wrote that letter regarding Catherine Howard’s sexual past, and Henry had to order an investigation, and we know how that turned out. Thanks again Claire for another awesome video!! I love each daily titbit of Tudor history!! ❤️

[@TheTam0613]

What a great point about the massive amount of resources needed!!!

[@chiaroscuroamore]

TamHutchins Thank you 😊

[@ruthgoebel723]

What a huge undertaking were these royal progresses! I cannot imagine all the work that went on behind the scenes logistically, to have all of this come about.

[@Angie2343]

ROYAL ROAD TRIP!! =D

[@cherylreed7523]

I too would have loved to see how huge the progress was...it must have been lavish too !! Henry sure knew how to do things in style....I was thinking today (while we struggled on at work in 35% heat) How did the Tudors cope in the summer in all those heavy clothes?! It must have been horrifically uncomfortable.....Great video Claire....as always 😁.....

[@Angie2343]

Sure wish he could be King of England in our time. His ailments could be treated right away, and all his wives would be alive.

[@lilenwasnothere6867]

they were actually going through a mini ice age (as opposed to the global warming today) at the time, so even the summer wasn't really hot. gives context as to why they wore so many layers.

[@jolovesminnis]

I just have to say how much I enjoy your channel! Thank you🥰🤗

[@Angie2343]

So, in short, the king and queen wanted to go on not only a summer vacay, but to also get away from their equivalents to COVID and the flu as well as the fetid smell of poop, and to make sure their palaces were clean and spotless when they got home. And I can imagine what Henry would have said after his nephew failed to show for the meetup. "Awwww man, you aren't gonna show?! Okay, c'mon everyone, it's time to go back home. He's not here."

[@leanie9660]

Thank you, Claire. Loved it as always.

[@girlsrule722]

I too would of loved to see this massive event. All those people. That was a long Journey. Then for Henry to find out about Catherine. I dont think if I had to marry the King that I would have roaming eyes. Look would happened too Ann. But you know the King could say anything to get rid of you if he wanted. Thank you Claire. I love my Tudor History lessons.

[@TheTam0613]

Anne really didn't have any roaming eyes. King Henry was an evil man. After getting a divorce, he saw how easily he could dispense with people he grew tired of and he was the Supreme Ruler and then Head of the Church. I would've been terrified of this man! And it's not like anyone could say "NO" to the King! I agree with you that if I had gotten stuck marrying him, I would've kept my eyes to the ground! But he would've gotten tired of me at some point. What always tickles my brain is what would've happen to Jane Seymour if she hadn't died due to childbirth complications.

[@janetneatby6586]

Catherine Howard was just a young girl and she liked people her own age.

[@kaseybrewer545]

I haven't been this early....ever! 😂😂 Thanks for the videos! Really love Tudor history, and love your "on this day..."series. Can't wait to get your books!!

[@anneboleynfiles]

Thank you!

[@kaseybrewer545]

@@anneboleynfiles I just saw you even had a coloring book, and I HAD to order that too! 😂

[@anneboleynfiles]

Dmitry the artist did a wonderful job at bringing my ideas to life with that book.

[@kaseybrewer545]

@@anneboleynfiles I can't wait for it to arrive! Thanks again for all you do!

[@edelhamilton2202]

I would love to hear your views on the Tudor plantations in Ireland .Great video on the Northern Progress.

[@vickiehendrickson3173]

Thanks for the video. It's the 29th here in USA. It's also my birthday. I so enjoy your lessons.

[@anneboleynfiles]

Happy birthday!

[@eileen1820]

Happy Birthday 🎂!!

[@vickiehendrickson3173]

@@eileen1820 thank you!

[@chiaroscuroamore]

Happy Birthday

[@tsilsby888]

Hey! It's my birthday too!!! Happy birthday, birthday twin!

[@robinpinkham9398]

The progress ust have been an amazing sight indeed!

[@eileen1820]

First! Hope you're keeping cool, Claire. Heard Spain experiencing a heat wave 🌞

[@anneboleynfiles]

It is hot but nothing we're not used to in our area, it's just a month or so early. It's been bad in other areas though and there are fires. All good here, thank you!

[@chiaroscuroamore]

The Anne Boleyn Files and Tudor Society I’m glad to hear you’re ok Claire! I hope the fires are put out soon and don’t come anywhere near your area xoxo

[@barbaraconnolly9000]

Oh wow. I live in Spain too. 11 in the morning 35 in the shade already. I'm North CB in land.

[@anneboleynfiles]

I'm inland, up a mountain in Almeria province. It's not too bad here at the moment but is hotting up.

[@terrignazari6330]

It's amazing how many of us live in Spain! I'm in Málaga Province, in the mountains near Sedella. It definitely is an incredibly hot summer.

[@Rjm2422]

Hi, I am wondering if you have any knowledge of where the beautiful gems and pearls of all Henry's wives come from - will they have had connections to Persia and India etc at this time? I am wondering about the gem trade and how Henry would have been able to get them.

[@anneboleynfiles]

Hmmm.... I'm not sure. However, the world was more connected than we often think.

[@seto749]

I've no idea why the question just popped into my head of whether one would rather marry Henry VIII or Miss Austen's Mr Collins. Perhaps that would pivot on how old Henry would be at the time. I also keep vacillating between alternatives for favourite reputed response to Henry's suit of Katherine Parr's wishing she could be let off being his wife and expressing a preference to be his mistress, and the lament of the Duchess of Milan that she had only the one head, for she'd offer one to his service if she'd had two.

[@marionarnott750]

😀😀😀

[@marionarnott750]

On reflection, I now think that marriage to Mr. Collins was worse than risking Henry.who was never boring.

[@sonjakeck4096]

I'm new to your channel and am enjoying it very much! On the subject of hot summer months I'm wondering if royalty actually diid continue to wear heavy ceremonial garb and why they would not have chosen lighter clothing instead? Thank you so much!

[@sallyofstuart9702]

Is Hallowtide the Tudor Halloween I can’t wait for that episode 🎃

[@jillniemczynski5517]

Sally of Stuart Yes! I'm curious myself. Halloween is my favorite holiday & the day my husband & I got married. Have a great day! 😎🎃👻

[@anneboleynfiles]

Yes, Hallowtide is All Saints' Eve (Halloween), All Saints' Day (All Hallows) and All Souls' Day.

[@sallyofstuart9702]

The Anne Boleyn Files and Tudor Society thank you 😊

[@sallyofstuart9702]

Jill Niemczynski it my favorite Holliday too

[@pbohearn]

Jill Niemczynski did you know that the Catholic Church appropriated Halloween from the druids of Ireland, a pagan people who observed this holiday as part of their nature based faith. Saint Patrick was able to convert them after he framed Catholic theology into their value system.

[@TheTam0613]

Thank you, Claire! I really am saddened by the life of Katherine Howard. She was abused by every man in her life, most certainly the King was the worst of her abusers. She was so young. And yes, I realize that very young women were often married off to old men, but that doesn't take away from the awfulness.

[@darlenefarmer5921]

Thank you so much.

[@RobertoLorenzPianist]

I wonder how Catherine's life would have been if this scandal never happened.

[@homhable]

Now you said that... I wanna know!

[@marionarnott750]

I think she would have slipped off the straight and narrow sooner or later. She had no sound guidance growing up. She was young and uninhibited sexually (marriage to Henry must have been nightmarish). She delighted in secret dalliance and intrigue as she showed with Mannox and Dereham and repeated with Culpepper. Poor thing. She appears to have been good natured and fun - she would have made a better mistress than a wife.

[@jeanroughley1126]

IF she'd have had a son or 2 she'd have been golden.

[@marionarnott750]

@@jeanroughley1126 If Henry was suspicious of their paternity, what then?

[@TheTam0613]

It's King Henry 8th-something would've set him off no matter what she did. So at best, maybe she would've lived longer. But Henry even thought about executing his last wife, Katherine Part, and everything I've seen points to her being faithful (even though she loved another who she would marry shortly after Henry's death), very accommodating for all of Henry's children, and was basically his nurse. But he based his thought about looking her based on how she spoke and wrote about religion. Henry was jealous of her skill. This may sound terrible, but it's very sad that Prince Arthur died and Prince Henry didn't. He did unthinkable things.

[@coletterice]

Claire, I so appreciate your depth and perspectives on these important moments in Tudor history. You are thorough and clear, and it's such a joy to learn about these events with you. Do we know why James agreed to come and then "ghosted" Henry? That has always interested me, and I don't know enough about the dynamics between the two monarchs to understand what is at play there.

[@janetneatby6586]

Very interesting and informative as usual!

[@andrewkeir6918]

Hi Claire. This is the first I've heard of Catherine being taken ill during the progress. Do the contemporary sources offer any more information on this?

[@mindyp51a]

As an aside... THE SPANISH PRINCESS (currently playing on Starz) and based on Phillipa Gregory's "The Constant Princess" and "The King's Curse" puts forth the theory that Katherine lied about the consummation of her marriage to Arthur because she believed so strongly that her destiny was to be the Queen of England. (Not surprising when you consider that she was raised in this belief.) I know Gregory's works are not generally popular on Claire's sites, but she is not the first Tudor (historical) fiction writer to put this theory forth--I believe it is Jean Plaidy who first put forth this theory in her Katherine of Aragon trilogy. I can't remember which book, but I distinctly remember a scene in which the dying Arthur tells her to lie about their sexual relationship so that she can marry Henry.

[@deborahhall6191]

Margaret Beaufort was a strong, intelligent woman who did what she needed to do so she and her son would survive. From what I understand she was the main reason Henry Tudor became Henry VII.

[@almontepaolilli4909]

Great video.

[@frightbat208]

Was Katherine Howard’s fall a stitch up, too?

[@anneboleynfiles]

No, she'd had a sexual relationship with Dereham before her marriage and she and Culpeper confessed to intending to consummate their relationship, and intent was all that was needed to convict them of treason.

[@martinemariemc]

Hi Claire 👋☺️, now I know you probably broached this topic before but do we know what "the sweating sickness" was?

[@Lyndell-P]

🇭🇲🦘 What a magnificent sight this northern progress must have been. Such excitement by all, but ending so badly for King Henry and Catherine Howard. Whilst I am very sorry for what happened to Catherine, I do Not pity Henry. Of course Catherine shouldn't have had an affair, but it was 'a man's world' and quite alright for her husband the king to take a mistress here and there, when he fancied, but not for a woman and definitely not a queen. Henry's feelings may have been hurt, but Catherine paid for her actions, with her life. A very detailed and interesting video. "Thank you" Claire 👑👍

[@idontwantachannel7542]

What do you think of David Starkey's position that all Catherine and Culpepper did was talk?

[@anneboleynfiles]

It is possible as they both denied sexual intercourse but confessed to intending to do it. I'm not sure about just talking, but they may have "fooled around" and not gone the whole way. I remember those wonderful nights of staying up all night and talking to my husband Tim when we were first going out. You just want to know everything about the other person, so perhaps that's what they were like. Lady Rochford believed that they had done the deed though.

[@marionarnott750]

@@anneboleynfiles In a sense, whether they did or didn't is irrelevant. The fact is she was having clandestine meetings behind Henry's back. Once that story got out, there was no escaping the scaffold. A queen cannot be deceitful and furtive. She must be beyond reproach. Why didn't she learn from Anne Boleyn's fate?

[@pbohearn]

Marion Arnott oy vey! And they were related. Young and Foolish! But WHY was Lady Rockford assisting with these secret meetings?? A Boleyn! Oy vey!

[@marionarnott750]

@@pbohearn Now there:s a question that's impossible to answer! Could it be that Katherine was Queen so Jane did as she was asked? Could it be that she knew it was wrong but was afraid to speak up after what happened to George and Anne? Could it be that she was trying to take revenge on Henry after what happened to George and Anne? She knew they were innocent and died all the same: maybe Katherine could be guilty and get away with it Maybe she was rather a light woman, like Katherine, and shared her love of intrigue. Maybe she just wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer. Could it be that she regarded events as just a bit of fun?

[@territ7952]

Was it a intimate affair, or merely flirting?? Thanks again for bringing history to life for us lady claire.

[@anneboleynfiles]

I'd love to know! I don't think it was mere flirting, they confessed to intending to sleep together, and I think they were both of the opinion that the king would die soon and they could be together.

[@annettefournier9655]

4 to 5 thousand horses must have left a huge mess in their wake. Roads chewed up, dust everywhere when dry, huge amount of people and horses leaving east everywhere. Ewwww.

[@pbohearn]

This was worse than the country Road to Woodstock in upstate NY in 1969! HA! Happy Tudor Pride 🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🇬🇧 Great You Tube On the “Gay Kings and Queens of England,” there were a few.

[@somyod2u]

Whatever possessed Lady Rochford to become involved in the love-life of Catherine Howard.

[@clairelambert1018]

Is it true that Mary Tudor went with them on their progress

[@anneboleynfiles]

Yes, that's right.

[@keepitsimple4629]

Instead of spending millions of pounds on all his sumptuous palaces, the crown should've taken some of that money and paved some roads.

[@catherinesabino2701]

How old was Catherine Howard when she was executed?

[@roxymcdonald6518]

Poor Catherine....it was the beginning of the end for her. She was so young. I have always been puzzled as to why Dereham was executed as well. He had a relationship with her prior to her becoming Queen. How could he know that she would marry Henry? Culpeper did deceive his monarch.

[@jillniemczynski5517]

Hi Claire! Love ya! ❤👍👸👑🏰🎪🎭🍗

[@eyerollingintooblivion3564]

Hey Claire, I'm curious. I watched the Spanish princess and of course creative liberties were taken. I liked it, but I'm wondering if If Margaret Beaufort was really against the wedding of Henry and Catherine? She seems so hateful toward Catherine in the show and I'm wondering if there is some sort of truth to it. Thanks!

[@eyerollingintooblivion3564]

@p interesting. Thank you. I guess they used it for drama. Wish they wouldn't have though. They make Margaret out to be this really evil women, who would lie to get a man killed to cover her own skin.

[@vilstef6988]

@@eyerollingintooblivion3564 See the Wars of the Roses documentary on the Timeline channel. Documentary #4 which is essentially on the life of Lady Margaret Beaufort really tells you about all you need to know about the Wars-it gives insight into Margaret's character and tells about the chances she took to protect herself and her son. Number 4 really summarizes well most of the events of the Wars. I commented on yesterday's Today on Tudor history and said Lady Margaret was a pivotal character in the Wars. Without her, all of English history since would be considerably different.

[@anneboleynfiles]

No, I've never seen anything to suggeest that Margaret was against the match or that she was the horrible woman that she's often depicted as in these series and books.

[@TheTam0613]

I don't know why she's so often made out to be evil. Maybe a myth that started?

[@eyerollingintooblivion3564]

@@anneboleynfiles Thank you Claire. And well, we all know how people made Anne look. There are probably many myths about the Tudors that we don't yet know. Hopefully one day, we'll be able to know more.

[@sallyofstuart9702]

I love thinking of this what if Scotland went though with the treaty like would Marry still have Married Francis or get executed bye Mary I, what do you think would of happened and I have another question is Jacob Abbets Mary Queen of Scots book a good source of is a incorrect victorian book

[@lunachick1313]

She was a very young girl. She should have said she was precontracted to Frances Derham. It would have saved her. For the love of Culpepper, that in the end tried to save his oun neck by throwing her under the bus whoops, cart!❤ So sad, at least evil Jane Parker Boleyn got her karma in the end for what she did to Anne, and George.

[@marionarnott750]

@@RobertoLorenzPianist On the Anne Boleyn site there is an example of the correspondence between Jane and George in the Tower. A perfectly normal letter. As you say there is no evidence of any mischief making on Jane:s part. But historical novelists need villains. (or villainesses) and Jane has been elected. Could that be because she remained at court and seemed to thrive, so much so that people suspected she was being rewarded for treachery towards the Boleyns. But Thomas Boleyn continued in the King's service after his children were executed. This is what people did to keep the King's favour.

[@anneboleynfiles]

There is no evidence that Jane did anything at all to bring down Anne and George, see kzbin.info/www/bejne/l32VgqSsgLOHgqM Evidence points to her being close to the both of them.

[@jandrews6254]

Had a wonderful time on his progress'!! He’d been stood up by King James! He would have been Offended Big Time. To then be told his wife had been unfaithful! Well, no wonder he went off his massively entitled perch.

[@justineharper3346]

That's my birthday 😊

[@iamagoogler3324]

Renaissance circus

[@6falconsue]

I Am A Googler That sums it up pretty nicely!

[@bosongidner5418]

So they were gonne for nearly four mounths.

[@fatnsassy99]

Her maid was decapitated as well, correct? How ironic that Anne's sister in law, who allegedly said that Anne n her brother committed incest, was later decapitated for helping Catherine Howard and her adulterers.

[@anneboleynfiles]

It's actually a myth that Jane Boleyn did anything to bring down the Boleyns. See kzbin.info/www/bejne/l32VgqSsgLOHgqM

[@fatnsassy99]

@@anneboleynfiles that's why I said allegedly. I apologise if I didn't word it correctly. ** I appreciate your work and I'm a new subscriber. I'm trying to watch as many of your videos as possible because they're so interesting. I feel like you give these poorly judged women a voice. ** 🌹👸💚

[@tenderheartedindividual9510]

I have mixed feelings about queen Elizabeth. Why is she called "good queen Bess" when she had a temper and she also murdered people for their beliefs? What's so admiring about her other than the fact that she proved women?

[@marionarnott750]

She worked very hard at keeping an even keel over religion. There were no bursts of executions among her courtiers. She had a brilliant mind and considerable political acumen. Heretics were only executed if they actually plotted against her

[@tenderheartedindividual9510]

@@marionarnott750 O ok that's what I figured. But Wikipedia doesn't specify that. It just said she executed Catholic priests once she learned of them and that many of them faced painful deaths. I specifically looked up who was executed during her reign.

[@marionarnott750]

@@tenderheartedindividual9510 I think I'm right in saying that the executions of priests escalated after the Pope decreed that it wasn't a. sin to kill Elizabeth which was tantamount to pinning a target on her back. That's why a 'no-hiding place for priests' policy arose. How many were captured and executed, and how many civilians were influenced by them I have no idea. Maybe Claire has a more exact picture of what went on.

[@GoGreen1977]

@@marionarnott750 I agree. With what I've read and studied, Elizabeth was reluctant to execute anyone unless they were a threat to her life and reign. She did put various people to death, but often with reluctance and only when pushed. After the fact, she sometimes suffered something similar to a nervous breakdown, like after the execution of Mary Stuart.

[@angeliapittman4776]

I love to watch your videos thank you so much,I watched the tudors miniseries for the 50th time I realized that Cromwell was nothing but a scumbag he didn't like Anne so he got the ball rolling about Anne being unfaithful all those men put to death in my opinion harry met Jane Seymour and that was the end for Anne how sad Henry was a evil man ! Those chamber maids and their lies ,and poor smearing was gay why didn't he say he was seeing Anne's brother ? Why was it in Tudor time it was ok the king to have a mistress but the queen dare not cheat on him ? Henry was a hypocrite and acting so religious he had sex with orther woman , Anne didn't make much of fuse to try and save herself I don't think but waste of life court was crooked for sure little richie was a backstabber !!! Cromwell tho at the end was axed so guess they all got it latter.

[@einefreunde]

Take that stupid watch off!!!!