Thomas and Elizabeth Boleyn

[@Angel-nu7fm]

She is a very good historian and storyteller.

[@anneboleynfiles]

Thank you!

[@debsycks4645]

The best very educated

[@blueblack3591]

Yes agree

[@UtahGmaw99]

Thomas Boleyn could not have been a weak person. No one at the court of Henry Vll was weak or faint hearted or they wouldn't have survived. That court was a dangerous place with Henry so unpredictable. I agree the Boleyn's story is a very sad one.

[@Orphen42O]

An excellent linguist and diplomat, Thomas Boleyn was successful before his daughters became involved with Henry VIII. People wanted proximity to the king so that they could win royal favor. Although Thomas Boleyn probably did not "push" his daughters at Henry VIII, he knew that the Boleyn family would benefit from Anne's rise.

[@realitycheck4842]

Thank you for giving me a new perspective on Thomas and Elizabeth Boleyn. Your points are well taken and ring with truth. Although I'm an American, I find history of this period fascinating.

[@carolinecarlson4307]

I love how you like to cut away the salacious gossip to get to what we know from the actual record. Very nice🌺

[@lauramason5667]

Thank you for a thoughtful analysis of Thomas and his whole family. When we look at situations like this we have to remember that those times there were different ways of thinking and surviving. You look beautiful in your braid and I love your B necklace. I have one too!

[@siege268]

Thank you for explaining the noises your cat made. I kept going to my window thinking one of my cats was distressed and they were looking at me like I was nuts! I really appreciate the research you've done. I was nine years old when I went to London from my home in Atlanta, GA. I had a very emotional response to Ann Boleyn's story when we were at the Tower of London. This was in October of 1971. My mother had trouble getting me away from a little plaque type thing, I actually went under the velvet ropes to touch it and had never done anything like that before. I cried for her. She touched my little child self and still does all these years later. Thank you for your channel.

[@eej1983able]

Ms. Siege i feel for Anne too...such a sad story

[@susannebemis3311]

Anne knew what she was in for but didn't deserve her fate. Kitty Howard ,her naive cousin, breaks my heart.

[@ChezzaAU]

Thanks for the more balanced and more believable account of the Boleyn family.

[@anneboleynfiles]

Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed it.

[@Lyndell-P]

I totally agree! 👍 A "balanced and more believable account" indeed! I've always thought of Claire as a wonderful orator and I always enjoy her talks.

[@starquilt]

I always found the Boleyn's story so sad. I really would love to know what was life like back in those times.

[@luvprue1]

Twilight Warrior I would mind visiting that time period, but i would not have want to live in that time period.

[@zoedark7101]

I imagine people smelt bad

[@eej1983able]

luvprue1 oh agreed. Nice time to visit, wouldn't want to live there? Lol

[@isobelduncan]

@@zoedark7101 Yeah, they rarely bathed plus health standards were very low.

[@thatsmyjam6065]

I love your video! There is so much evidence that you provided that I had never heard before. Thank you! I especially liked that you included information disputing certain modern attitudes. Way to go!

[@juanitarichards1074]

I read another version of Thomas Boleyn's attitude to his daughter Mary's affair with the king. That he was angry and disappointed in her behaviour in France and when she came back to England and slept with the king. That he saw it as besmirching the reputation of the Boleyns, potentially spoiling her and Anne's potential in the marriage market and that Anne had learned from this so she did not agree to be the kings mistress when he began chasing her. Mary was always treated coldly and of no account by her family, her father being unwilling to help her after the death of her first husband, and only with Anne's intercession with the king, who ordered Thomas Boleyn to give Mary some financial help, and Anne gained the wardship of Mary's son. The family were even more incensed when Mary secretly married a second time to a nobody who was unsuitable to be a royal brother in law and who lowered the prestige and reputation of the Boleyns and the king. Clues to this are in Mary's letter to Cromwell begging him to intercede with Anne and the king where she says she would rather beg her bread with a husband who truly loved her than be the greatest queen living. This was a barb at Anne whose marriage was not going well by this time. Mary and her husband were left to live in poverty, shunned by the Boleyns and the king. They were never reconciled to Anne or to Mary's family. Also how Thomas Boleyn treated his daughter in law Jane Rochford after she was implicated in allegations against her husband and Anne which led to their execution. Thomas had to be ordered by the King to make some provision for her in her widowhood, and he told Cromwell he was only doing this for the kings sake and nobody elses. I don't think he or his wife had any choice in the matter once the kings interest alighted on the Boleyn daughters, especially Anne who he chased relentelssly despite her at first turning him down, refusing to answer his letters and sending his gifts back, and even leaving court to escape this married mans attentions. She did not want her chances of a good marriage ruined by any scandal, but in the end had no choice. There are allusions to this in Thomas Wyatts poem in the line "While I kindly am served, I'd like to know what she has deserved"?

[@Annie.C.61]

I found you yesterday and I'm so glad. I love it when history is turned upside down with new evidence and opinions. We are all too quick to judge these historic people by today's laws and standards; we forget that things were unbelievably different back then. It has been enlightening listening to these facts and feelings about Thomas and Elizabeth Boleyn and it has made me see them in a new light. Thank you :)

[@DarkLadyAthena1]

This is so true. Many historical figures whose reputations have been rehabilitated come at the expense of their parents or their rivals who don't fit into someone's agenda. And I am not against someone thinking ill of their parents. People can think whatever they want, but it is problematic when they try to promote their viewpoint as truth, disregarding every known fact about the period. Thomas Boleyn was no saint but neither was he a villain. He was a man of his times. You can expect to suddenly have had an epiphany and go 'oh, people will think evil of me and this is bad because people in the 21st century whose view is correct, think is evil'. Morality is subjective and I know that is not a very popular opinion but it is true. Thomas Boleyn grew up in a system where men of his status were supposed to act a certain way. The same thing goes for his wife. She belonged to one of the up and coming noble families at the end of the wars of the roses and the Tudor era, the Howard clan. That being said, Thomas Boleyn is an admirable figure because he rose on his own merits before his eldest daughter caught both kings' eyes -and I say this with caution because some historians aren't sure that she was King Francois' mistress, given that a lot of the slander that has come her way, is due to the Boleyn and Howards' enemies and novelists with an agenda who think they can make them more interesting by turning them into romantic caricatures. He came from a merchant family. His family had many notable figures who were also hardworking and stuck close to his younger daughter when she became Queen. He was also a man that like many men in the renaissance age, became interested in new ideas and when he saw promise in his younger children, he opened them to these new ideas and being as curious as their father, they sought to find out more resulting in George becoming a staunch Protestant and Anne sympathetic to their ideas (but to a lesser extent than her brother). Thomas was also a man who was admired by most of his peers and thought highly of by foreign envoys. He, his son and his brother-in-law, the Duke of Norfolk where the first ones to welcome Eustace Chapuys to England. The imperial ambassador, no friends of the Boleyns, was impressed and thought highly of George who sought to emulate his father by becoming a dedicated ambassador and courtier. Thanks for doing this video. The problem with many people rehabilitating Anne and Mary, and to some extent Katherine of Aragon and Mary I; is that they go about it wrongly. They think that the only way possible to do them justice and make people sympathetic to them is by casting their predecessors, or in this case their parents, as monsters. They perpetuate the cycle where the 16th century bottled down to good vs evil figures. And that is not just how these things worked. Some of Thomas Boleyn's attitudes, as well as those of his in-laws and other family members, while questionable to us, make sense for his times.

[@anneboleynfiles]

I suppose there has to be someone to blame. If you make it so the historical person is innocent then someone has to be blamed for what happened, it's human nature, isn't it?

[@BeeKool__113]

Great video, Claire. Very interesting about the parents of Queen Anne Boleyn and Grandparents of Queen Elizabeth I. Love your B necklace and cool Tudor dolls. ❤

[@ericwortman3180]

I'm glad you spent time discussing Elizabeth Boleyne. The film 'The Other Boleyne Girl' presents her in a favorable light, and it was the first time I saw her portrayed at all. Alison Weir doesn't really do much with her, if I recall correctly. She must have been an accomplished lady for her time, though even women like her seem like shadowy figures now. As to her death, I can imagine that extreme stress and health at that time could very well be closely tied, considering the state of medicine and lifestyles then. I've had a poor opinion of Thomas Boleyne previously. Thanks for shedding more light on his circumstances. I love your videos.

[@maryspangenberg4540]

Love love love these videos! The Tudor period is my favorite, I've been to England twice on historical sabbatical, learning so much. Claire is awesome as speaker and educator, I watch the Boleyn videos each morning before work. Excellent as per usual! Keep up the good work Claire!

[@ginigang]

The Tudors series fired my interest in that period of history. Thankfully I possess an inquisitive mind that I'm only too glad to have unleashed otherwise I would have accepted the series' account as reasonably factual. Keep up the excellent work; I enjoy your presentations immensely.

[@almontepaolilli4909]

Just noticed your necklace with B similar to that worn by Ann Boleyn in portraits of her that I have seen. Ann’s family must have been like many other during the period where people did almost anything to win the favor of the monarchy. You give well documented talks that weave facts into an interesting talk on the subject. I also noticed your well stocked library on the histories of England.

[@christineholbrook1107]

Thankyou for this . I'm sure that Elizabeth and Thomas Boleyn were heart broken .

[@henryspencer2576]

hello 👋 how are you doing? I want to say I love 💕 your comment that you share on here on this page, I love 💕 to be part of your friend thank you 🙏

[@Kaytecando]

Great lecture. I commend you on your research. I am grateful for stumbling on your site as I am a scholar of the English monarchy from an anthropological as well as historical standpoint.

[@anneboleynfiles]

Thank you!

[@scattygirl1]

A very watchable - and imo credible - historian; she manages to present pragmatic suggestions for people's actions as well as being humane and interesting in her analysis, without resorting to melodrama or attaching modern judgement to a very different way of behaving.

[@samantharuck1503]

Well presented 👍

[@anneboleynfiles]

Thank you!

[@susanbedingfield4661]

Excellent. As you said, we don't know what was said...what Anne said to her mother..what both parents said to the king...Anne may have told her mother to save herself with silence. For so much that is known, there is so much unknown also.

[@anneboleynfiles]

Yes, frustratingly so!

[@JodyK68]

Very sad for the Boleyn family, the King really had become a tyrant, the way in which he removed Elizabeth from his sight after her mother's beheading is very sad. This must of effected Elizabeth for the rest of her life.

[@VCYT]

Not really as some said she wasn't his daughter! I reckon though she reminded him of his wife. Elizabeth came back anyway.

[@janbadinski7126]

Nope, he was an asshole long before that.

[@hannahmarie6501]

Fitzroi Anne was no whore. Thats all false aligations to destroy Annes reputation.

[@janbadinski7126]

It was made up so that Henry wouldn't have a problem getting Anne convicted of adultry and treason. Facts weren't relevant when the king wanted something.

[@SafetySpooon]

@Fitzroi LOL. Pathetic.

[@galiagoze]

Thank you so much for clarifying and bringing to light some new possibilities concerning the Boleyns. I'm am a direct descendant of Thomas and Elizabeth Boleyn through their daughter Mary, and granddaughter Catherine Carey. There is SO much speculation and "invented history" surrounding this family. Some believe that William Carey was sterile, and produced heirs through the King (Catherine and Henry Carey). This would make me the very great granddaughter to Henry Vlll. I just discovered your channel and would be interested in more of what you have found!!

[@anneboleynfiles]

How wonderful to be linked to the Boleyns!

[@susannebemis3311]

@@anneboleynfiles my hubby's family is a decsendent of the Tudors. We went into a Restaurant called "Tudor"s Biscuit World" in West Virginia and Tony announced that he was a Tudor! We got a free biscuit!

[@jeilou171]

How did you find out that?

[@susannebemis3311]

@@jeilou171 My husband researched thru the internet and family doucuments

[@jeilou171]

@@susannebemis3311 it's because i'm in different groups on facebook and lots of people claim to be family descendant of HVIII or the Boleyns or Seymours... There is a family descendant from Thomas Cromwell actually you can watch the doc on youtube. Besides that, all are speculations... Not DNA test.

[@kellyvickery2861]

I absolutely love the way Claire's perspective is presented in this video. It puts Queen Anne's parents in a whole light for me.

[@sng1934]

I find the boleyn story so sad I watched a documentary on anne and her trial and made me really emotional and in tears to see anne and her brother stitched up and trying to fight these charges. They didn't stand a chance. X

[@cpdesirliteraryworks4513]

Hello, Claire -- thank you for such a wonderful video! I've recently discovered your website and your KZbin videos and have been slowly making my way through several videos. I'm very passionate about English History, particularly Medieval and Renaissance history (Plantagenets - Tudors) so I love hearing your detailed breakdown and historical analysis, as it provides much needed clarity. I have some more thoughts on this particular video, which I'd love to share. As in regards to Thomas and Elizabeth Boleyn I think you've done a great job showing them in not only a more sympathetic light, but a more fuller picture, particularly as in regards to Thomas. I believe you've successfully debunked the myth on his essentially pimping out his daughters, which was popularized in several books and most notoriously the show the Tudors (which I did enjoy). As for his actual feelings about his children, particularly his daughters and their relationship with the King, I don't think we will ever truly know. Even if he was alive today, no one can say for any certainty what anyone's true intentions are. There are a few things though that I think you can glean from the sources. I think that Thomas did care quite a bit for his daughters, and this is evidenced by the fact that they were so well educated (there's not enough evidence on Mary's education, but one I think can make that argument, because why would Anne - who was most likely the younger sister, be so educated and not Mary the older sister - perhaps that's probably why both stood out to Henry) and in the earlier years he did so much to advance them and put them in the best possible positions. As you successfully argued, he certainly did not need them to promote his own career, so I think it can be argued that he was acting purely in their best interests. Now as to the other issue -- on whether he did enough to save his children when they were going down -- for me this is more complicated and I'm not sure if there is a straight answer to this. While I agree to an extent that we cannot judge a person's morals based solely from our standpoint -- I actually think -- this alone doesn't rehabilitate Thomas. I don't agree with your argument, that the perception of the King as being God's agent on earth would have been the dominant motivation for his seeming unquestionably loyalty, as English history is filled with nobles acting against the monarch. In fact the preceding period, prior to Henry VII's reign we had the War of the Roses. From 1399 to 1485 three anointed Kings - Richard II, Henry VI and Richard III were all deposed based on either their tyranny or incompetence by other relatives and supporting nobles. In reality, nobles would and did against the king, if they felt it would advance their own interests and that there was just cause to do so -- and this is where I think Thomas can come in. Given Henry's increased tyranny, his destruction of so many people around him, and quite frankly, the historically dangerous era, and precarious positions of certain couturiers I think Thomas most likely made the decision that it was better to save himself and save the family name -- not so much because he had no feeling for his children, but because he didn't have much of a choice. Henry VIII didn't tolerate dissent from anyone -- and had he spoken up for his children during that period, it would have very likely got him killed, given the trumped up nature of the charges. He most likely saw no point to all that. As for Elizabeth we'll never truly know what she felt. Ultimately the one to blame in all this is Henry VIII. The Boleyn family based on all account served him and his father loyally and he rewarded them by murdering several members and forever tarnishing their reputations. He was truly a horrible character. Anyway sorry for the novel-like- response! Thank you again for a fabulous video. I look forward to watching more and responding to some.

[@charlottebruce979]

I love writing stories/plays, and I always wanted to write of the aftermath of the death of Anne and George and how that affected Thomas, His wife Elizabeth, and Mary. I get great comfort that they had Catherine and Henry, their grandchildren to play with and see. Children are a great distraction and thus a blessing.

[@flashrobbie]

Henry's lust and greed destroyed that family. I just imagine how distraught and betrayed the parents must have been when they went to the country, I don't imagine the kind of nuck nuck villains other people have painted them as.

[@gaylebrown614]

Thank you for the sensible clarification of the attitude of the parents, the Hollywood version is so cold and calculating, harder to reconcile that the facts of the 1500's and royal servitude.

[@anneboleynfiles]

Thank you! I am concerned that in rehabilitating Anne, some authors/people have maligned her parents, brother and sister-in-law.

[@chanelleperrier4576]

Excellent video ! I am a so interested and passionate with the Tudors especially Anne Boleyn and I also thought that her father and uncle the duke of Norfolk were responsible for pushing her for their personal advancement at court and that they were also responsible for her downfall. It is nice to hear the truth of the Boleyn family, thank you for clearing this up Claire I hope their names will be unblackened

[@anneboleynfiles]

Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed the video.

[@maureengillies9495]

Anne boleyn is my favourite tudor person i love reading about her and I'm always sad for the way her life ended

[@lucypokes]

I love your videos. I rewatch them over and over again.

[@judefrazier4727]

Claire your necklace! O my! I love it 😉

[@anneboleynfiles]

Thank you! I love my B necklace. We sell them on the Anne Boleyn Files website.

[@anitacarter9118]

Thank you for your depiction of the Boleyns.

[@reneenayfabnaynay5679]

It's so nice to put a voice to the pics I see of you, and when I read your comments! I follow your FB page. I love you ABF website too! Hope you're day is lovely! ☺

[@anneboleynfiles]

Thank you!

[@steveriggan8944]

Thank you, Claire, for this lecture. You mentioned some facts that I did not even know myself! I am the genealogist for the Wingfield Family Society of the U.K and U.S. and we are descendants of the Wingfield family you mentioned in your talk about Thomas Boleyn. Sir Robert Wingfield, who went with Thomas Boleyn to the court of Margaret of Austria, was the brother of Elizabeth (Wingfield) Hall whose gr-gr-gr granddaughter Diana Skipwith was my ancestress and had immigrated after the English Civil War to Virginia with her brother Sir Grey Skipwith, 3rd Bt. of Prestwold, Leics. The Wingfields were cousins to both Thomas and Elizabeth (Howard) Boleyn and I have studied out many family relationships and the history of service to Henry VIII. It is a fascinating study! I would recommend you interview Jocelyn Wingfield who resides in the U.K. He is our family historian and has written books about the Wingfield family in Suffolk and also about Edward Maria Wingfield, first president of the Jamestown Colony in 1607.

[@eveywrens]

It makes much more sense that Thomas Boleyn was a favorite and competent courtier. In several novels he's called a lackey or sycophant. It was said he botched embassies for King Henry VIII. What I found most fascinating was Chapuys saying Thomas Boleyn was against Anne's course to marry Henry VIII. I wonder what the real content of their conversations on this issue were like? As you said, Elizabeth is a more shadowy figure. Her portrayals in fiction run the gamut from country rustic to co-conspirator with her husband to pander Anne. In a few novels about Anne Boleyn, written by British rather than American authors, there is a plot line that Thomas Boleyn had two wives, the sophisticated Howard and the country rustic wife? Where did this myth originate? I find historical novels embellish on rumor and gossip rather than fact. Another great video. As an aside, I own both the Catherine of Aragon doll (red underskirt) and the Jane Seymour doll (white gown, brown faux fur). Still hoping you'll share your doll collection.

[@patriciasmith2168]

Thank you for a thoughtful and thought provoking review of Thomas and Elizabeth Boleyn. I visited his grave and wondered where his wife was buried

[@henryspencer2576]

Hello 👋 Patricia 💐 how are you doing?

[@ginaoneil9565]

Claire, what happened to Mary Boleyn after her siblings execution? I love everything tudor...especially their furniture which I try to replicate in my home. ;-)

[@anneboleynfiles]

We don't know where Mary was at the time of her siblings' execution, she may even have been in Calais as her husband was a member of the garrison there, but she was not involved in the proceedings at all. She died on 19th July 1543.

[@ginaoneil9565]

@@anneboleynfiles Thankyou Claire, maybe she had a lucky escape if in Calais, not to get caught up in the proceedings. The whole Boleyn story is such a tragedy...Do you know if there are any Boleyn ancestors? Mary had at least 2 children I know of, do we know if they had children and if a family line was established?

[@anneboleynfiles]

@@ginaoneil9565 That's ok. Yes, the family really suffered. Yes, there are lots of people who descend from Mary because her two children both had large families. The present royal family descend from her (via the Queen Mother) and Princes William and Harry also descend from her through their mother's Spencer ancestry. See www.theanneboleynfiles.com/how-prince-william-and-prince-harry-descend-from-mary-boleyn/

[@susannebemis3311]

@@anneboleynfiles also my husband's family

[@ElGibby]

An excellent analysis. That’s the thing. Henry VIII ‘a court was, I imagine, a 16th century version of the National Enquirer. All sort of crazy rumours and gossip and innuendo, most of it utter nonsense. I confess I did think the worst of Norfolk 3, he is always depicted as this shrewd operator who threw everyone else under the bus for his own power and status. Based on what you’ve said here I need to do some research into the reality of this man. As for Thomas and Elizabeth, like you I get fed up with people even now crucifying this couple. The King was essentially God at that time, so to have tried to intercede on behalf of people accused of what George and Anne were would likely have only resulted in their own heads being removed too. And Anne.....good grief, my heart goes out to her. Personally I believe not one bit of what she was accused of. She was an innocent woman murdered by jealousy and paranoia. She and George seem to have had a very loving, close brother/sister relationship, nothing more. I’m going to stop here because this is where I could very easily get into a whole essay on Jane Boleyn/Rochford and I’d be here all day if that happened lol. I will finish here by saying I love that you remind people that context is everything. We cannot judge 16th century people by 21st century culture, morals etc. After all I’m sure people 500 years from now will look back at us in absolute horror, for things we do now that nobody bats an eyelid at.

[@beth7935]

Wow, an intelligent comment! By someone who doesn't claim omniscience, no less! :D Ok, I'm being sarky, but I'm in shock at the contrast to comments on Claire's recent vids... Yep, agree 100%, & I suspect I'd agree about Jane too: not an evil witch who accused her own husband of incest, not hated by George & Anne, etc etc... Philippa Gregory really did her dirty (along with all other women bar Mary Boleyn & Catherine of Aragon, but don't get ME started, lol)

[@gammon1183]

I attended Hever school back in the 70s and in Hever church we would have the nativity, I used to sit up on the tomb awaiting my part and to ring a large handbell to awaken the audience 😃

[@francesrosecarmel]

Really enjoy the videos and of course ALL your books.....thank you for all the detailed research and look forward to more.

[@anneboleynfiles]

Thank you!

[@chiaroscuroamore]

Thanks for another awesome video! And your cat sounds cute!

[@andrearoyd2942]

Thank you. In our modern times of education & ability to record on various platforms, written, video, oral etc history RETOLD even in living memory is the FLAVOUR of the time. I'm very open minded about the role of the Boleyns. But I want to raise the issue on honour, integrity and loyalty when we zoom forward to the here and now, how will history view the behaviour of Prince Harry and his wife? All the ingredients are already there from the beautiful Diana Princess of Wales, to her grieving son Harry and his wife who 25+ later are still using her memory.

[@lisagagnon1747]

Outstanding Discussion, Thank You!✨

[@qiviutqueen5705]

Wow you really opened my eyes & changed my way of thinking about Thomas Boleyn. Thank you !

[@susannebemis3311]

As a Gold Star mother (survivor of a military loss), I can tell you that it probably did kill Liz and Tom Boleyn to lose their children. It has broken my heart to lose my son in the line of duty. I don't imagine that I will live to be 100 now.

[@anneboleynfiles]

By liking your comment, I'm not liking your loss, I'm liking that you shared your story with us. I'm so deeply sorry for your loss, I cann't begin to comprehend what that's like. I'm sorry, as well, for the toll that it has taken on your health. Much love to you. What was your son called?

[@susannebemis3311]

@@anneboleynfiles thank you for your kind words. His name was John Keith Bemis and his 38th birthday was yesterday. He went by Keith or Pookie. He was a chief petty officer in the US Navy and served with honor

[@christinakav5029]

Tragic story! Thank you Claire

[@elizabethhopkins7582]

I love the way you do what you do

[@anneboleynfiles]

Thank you! I love doing what I do and I'm so glad you enjoy my videos.

[@Glorindellen]

thanks for giving a balanced view of these great etc. grandparents of mine.

[@ElizabethF2222]

Claire, first time I've seen this video, although I know it's old because your hair is still so long! I love your Anne Boleyn necklace! Never seen you wear this before, although I'm sure you have!

[@anneboleynfiles]

Thank you! I do love my B necklace!

[@butterfield8116]

I really love your tru history. Always being curious about this century,not so much the king, but all his unfortunate Women. What I really want to know is about Anne Boleyn’s Extra Ordinary, Beautiful, necklace. Who made it for her, did she always wear it? Is there a story about it. Is it made for one’s Collection.

[@YounoHou]

Wouldn't the parents also continue to serve the king because they knew to keep working in Elizabeth's interest?

[@anneboleynfiles]

They would simply have seen it as their duty to continue serving the monarch as families had done before them.They couldn't have had any influence on Elizabeth's interests, but I'm sure their feelings for her would have come into it too.

[@Orphen42O]

@@anneboleynfiles Did Thomas and Elizabeth express any interest in Elizabeth ?

[@anneboleynfiles]

@@Orphen42O Thomas would have seen her at Edward's christening, but both the Boleyns were dead by 1539. We just don't know their personal feelings and she would have been two young for them to keep in touch with. Lady Bryan was related to them though.

[@justpassingthrough9887]

I actually paused the video and started looking outside my doors and windows. 🤣❤

[@JalaKamal]

I am sure that Elizabeth Howard died of a broken heart. How can a mother survive such horrible events? About Thomas....God only knows.

[@wcfheadshots240]

What happens to Hever at Thomas's death? It sat empty for a long time, yes?

[@anneboleynfiles]

It was inherited by Sir James Boleyn who sold it to Henry VIII. It wasn't empty for too long as Anne of Cleves was granted its lease following the annulment of her marriage and she resided there for a while.

[@AngelaTopping]

@@anneboleynfiles I've visited recently, and the Boleyn link, and Anne of Cleves link are still honoured. It was eventually owned by the Astors. Recommend a visit. I was in part inspired to go by Claire's videos, and now I long to return.

[@lauraanderson3917]

Good video, hello kitty. My cats were looking for the intruder while I was watching this😄

[@jenjen.rutherford8559]

The damage Henry caused is so huge . Truly an evil man

[@carriebohnsack190]

That was really interesting. Thank you for your insight.

[@dawnMcCOT7]

I don't for one minute belive that Anne and George's parents weren't upset about losing their children and I am sure they tried to save them. I love your dolls. Where did you get them? I am a doll collector.

[@Lyndell-P]

🇭🇲🦘 A most informative and interesting talk about the lives of Thomas and Elizabeth Boleyn. Their happy years and their sad years. Always loyal .... to the crown. During the most difficult and saddest of times. To lose their dutiful and loving son (George Boleyn) and their intelligent and loving daughter (Anne Boleyn) in the way in which they did. How unbearable it must have been for them (as parents) unable to save their children against the overwhelming 'might' of the King and his people. A King they still had to serve, and did! cont... We now KNOW that Anne, George (and the others) were ALL innocent. Wrongfully accused, convicted and executed. Thomas and Elizabeth Boleyn would have known this at the time too, but would not have been able to prove it. How hard it must have been on them. cont... I can't believe that I only came across this video today (in September 2021) but so pleased that I did. To hear about the successes of the Boleyns, even after their childrens' executions, although I'm not surprised that they both didn't live for many years longer, as I'm in no doubt that those events and later years, took a huge toll on their health! cont... I believe that both Thomas and Elizabeth Boleyn were very family oriented and loved their children deeply. They were also always very loyal to the crown, during King Henry VII's reign and King Henry VIII's reign. Thomas Boleyn's diplomatic work alone, proved his worth. cont... They had the misfortune of their king falling 'out of love' with their daughter, Anne. However, the King AND Cromwell deciding to get RID of her by any means, as a divorce would be too difficult and take too long. Having Anne and the others Executed (legally murdered) AS the King had 'already' began a relationship with Jane Seymour, his future wife. cont... A VERY well presented talk about Thomas and Elizabeth Boleyn. "Thank you" Claire 💓👑👍

[@luvnlife3332]

I always love a redemption story! The portrayal of diabolical social climbers may make for great fiction, but I'm glad you've redeemed them by citing facts!

[@rubykelley5581]

Even IF they did throw their daughters at the king, it wouldn't have been an unusual thing. Everyone wanted to advance in status and get the favor of the king. I think the fictional depiction of Anne's father and uncle may be somewhat truthful, it just may not have been as extreme as they make out to be. I absolutely love your videos!

[@sanguinesoulful]

Those little background meows, though! >^x^

[@victoriascotttheclassicist3692]

Thank you so much for this!

[@wcfheadshots240]

I think the entire family's reputation is slandered by the novelists & SHOW writers who see a good story and fill in the missing "details" with whatever fits their narrative much as they do today. So they go down in infamy continuously. :( We are lucky to have what we know about Elizabeth Boleyn as women just weren't written about and most letters didn't survive, except in household accounts.

[@andreahall9981]

Am so enjoying your series. I'm late to the party, but I suppose I can jump in anytime.

[@remyn.9198]

It's official, I blame Henry for everything.

[@bilindalaw-morley161]

I would suggest he must have been very skilled at diplomacy and statecraft to have been kept on with Henry VIII after having been a body servant to Henry VII. From everything I’ve read, as well as taking account of Henry’s nature, and normal *human* nature, Henry VIII discharged his father’s intimate staff, wanting a young court who were loyal to him specifically. I’d also suggest that although “ pimping out his daughters” is rather strong, usual practice was, I thought that to be a king’s mistress was a compliment, leading to preference for all the family. No matter how high, how honoured Thomas Boleyn was, he wouldn’t have risked losing any of his favour by refusing Mary Boleyn’s favours. I think Claire, you’ve made that point yourself when you say *why* Thomas would not have protested his daughter and son’s horrid fate, those same whys would have been his attitude to his daughters becoming the King’s mistress. You almost seem to be having your cake and eating it, by arguing for Thomas’s restraint, giving those evidences of the divine nature of the king, he’s capricious behaviour, and his sexual greed. Thank you so much for all your videos . I especially am enjoying binging some of these older ones this weekend, in this time of our modern plague, the time of the Corona. I need cheering and distracting, and you’re providing that by your intelligent and thoughtful videos

[@chibiinum]

Love your bookshelves edp with the little dolls

[@helmaschine1885]

Sorry for changing the subject, but can i just say you look beautiful with that auburn reddish colour? Suits your skin tone very well.

[@Jae0220]

I've always found this era fascinating, so much turmoil and upheaval, and passionate stories. Recently discovered I am descended from the family of Elizabeth (Howard) Boleyn. Enjoy your searches and evaluations.

[@galiagoze]

Jan Shaw read my post above! You and I are cousins as I am a direct descendant of both Elizabeth and Thomas Boleyn through Mary Boleyn, and Mary's daughter Catherine Carey!!

[@Jae0220]

Hey Galia. Do you have a family tree? Mine is under construction (Ancestry), and I have traced back to Edward III and Edward I, and beyond to William the Conqueror and Rollo the Viking (Duke Robert of Normandy_. It would be cool if we are truly cousins! My father's family is descended from Lord William Howard. I you in US, or Europe (I'm in US)?

[@joylevy6184]

I know this isn't the point of the video but your kitty's meows are absolutely charming and adorable.

[@cindyrobinson3077]

Thank you for letting us know the truth

[@desertdaisymarie6951]

I’m just going to point out that “virginity” is a really stupid concept and caused a LOT of problems in history..

[@Sabrina-rn9dn]

I wouldn't say she didn't care for her daughters. You have got to remember women, especially wives didn't have no say in nothing, even with their children.

[@pamelawolf313]

I love the color of your hair in this video. Really livens up your face imho. ☺

[@eej1983able]

I love your necklace! Where did you get it? I want a good one

[@anneboleynfiles]

I used to sell them on the Anne Boleyn Files site. The maker of this one doesn't do them anymore but you can buy a similar one at www.the-falcon-nest.com/

[@BJones-yw4dd]

@@anneboleynfiles Thank you very much for the info -- I was very disappointed when I couldn't find it on the ABF site as you mentioned and only when I returned to the comments here did I discover your addition of the Etsy link. Thanks, because I'm going to order one!

[@TheGoofygirl67]

That was great, thank you ! xx

[@henryspencer2576]

Hello Elaine 💐 how are you doing?

[@TheGoofygirl67]

@@henryspencer2576 very well, thank you - you?

[@henryspencer2576]

@@TheGoofygirl67 you are welcome 💐

[@henryspencer2576]

@@TheGoofygirl67I'm having a beautiful day so far my friend 💐

[@henryspencer2576]

@@TheGoofygirl67 Where are you from?

[@BluePenguin200]

Would they have been allowed to interact with Elizabeth after the death of Anne?

[@anneboleynfiles]

I wouldn't have thought so. They may have been able to send letters.

[@BluePenguin200]

The Anne Boleyn Files and Tudor Society thank you for your swift response and view! I think it would have been lovely for them to have had some relationship with Elizabeth in some way, since she was the last connection they had to Anne (excluding Mary and her children).

[@anneboleynfiles]

@@BluePenguin200 Yes, me too.

[@michaelwolsey1156]

When the legend becomes fact, print the legend.

[@galiagoze]

I just now subscribed!!!

[@Minnastina]

Anne boleyn : Not tonight dear... I have a head ache! Henry VIII : I'll fix that!

[@judithboltz7318]

Every book I've read on the boleyns the parents seemed very cold to their children

[@debradevine5794]

Me too thank you for the new outlook i have on her parents bc i really dislike these noble men treating women as pawns and i really thought it was at her father and uncles request that she went with the king movies do this

[@lauriealexander5857]

Poor family they sacrificed a lot only to be treated badly.

[@jebsmoak925]

I love you claire!!!

[@anonz975]

The Boleyns must have tried, even if they didn't care about their kids at ALL having two executed would be shameful and damage their reputation.

[@mandykitchen1893]

I believe that Anne had no interest in being Henry VIII's mistress and she went back home to escape his advances. She didn't want t

[@lindawhitehead6149]

the Tudor court was a very scary place. Not for the faint hearted.

[@jthefifth5458]

Love the Peggy Nesbit dolls!

[@video198712]

What about Catherine Howard? I mean, isn't Catherine a relative of Anne Boleyn ? how did Catherine catch Henry VIII's eye, was it the Duke of Northfolk's doing?

[@henryspencer2576]

Hello 👋 Mary how are you doing?

[@veganforthem76]

Catherine came to court as a lady in waiting for Anne of Cleves. Also, she was a first cousins of Anne Boleyn.

[@AngelaTopping]

I've always suspected Anne was killed because she was interested in church reform and argued with Henry about it. She was very intelligent so he couldn't argue against her points. Catherine Parr nearly got arrested for the same reason . Anne waa no adulterer.

[@isobelduncan]

It is possible. Plus a lot of the charges against her were based on malicious gossip and rumours.

[@deusimperator]

Adolph too was very generous to his sycophants

[@desertdaisymarie6951]

They never reconciled with Mary??

[@yakkityyak9336]

I wonder about the health of that family too, in that Anne seemed to have just a whole lot of freedom to do as she did with Henry. There isn't a whole lot to indicate there was any attempt to protect the honor of the family. Two daughters were mistresses to the King and one of the daughters was a home-wrecker extraordinaire! Even though it WAS the King, it seems odd that the family did not send Anne away or get her married off to someone else as soon as this started. Any thoughts

[@isobelduncan]

Check out Claire’s video on Was Anne Boleyn a homewrecker. She has some valid points to defend Anne’s character.

[@yakkityyak9336]

@@isobelduncan what? you decided to re-write your earlier, much more nasty, post? Why?

[@yakkityyak9336]

@@isobelduncan here it is, in case you forgot: yakkityyak 6 months ago Claire, there was a marriage! That isn't fiction! What kind of person interferes with a marriage? Isobel Duncan 2 hours ago Did you even watch the video?

[@MsJubjubbird]

She couldn't have married because to marry you needed the king's permission. You also didn't say no and rules of chastity also didn't apply when it was the monarch. The usual pattern is he would screw around with you then when he got bored, make you a good marriage and send you away. So you weren't really ruined. Anne however, had other ideas. I also think the potential rewards were too great. Yes Thomas Howard and Boleyn had made their own gains. But to have a kid on the throne with the heir in her womb is another level.

[@tonnyjefferson8133]

Why didn’t Anne Boelyn’s family recover her body and do a proper burial?

[@lhzook]

Tonny Jefferson They probably wanted to distance themselves from the proceedings as quickly as possible. Remember, their livelihood ultimately depended on Henrys’ mood.

[@desertdaisymarie6951]

They wouldn’t have been allowed to..

[@sireenadynal4391]

Did the Boleyns spend time with Elizabeth after Anne's execution?

[@nmritter]

Boy do I ever disagree with you. Henry gave and took away. Look at what he did to poor Margaret Pole. Henry also intended to make Bessies son a legit aire. Henry was running out of time and he was going to put him in the line of succession

[@donnab.42]

Thank you for presenting the Boleyn family in the context of their time. It is inaccurate to evaluate them by the standards of the 21st century.