Another Decca Disaster: Ansermet--The Stereo Years

I hope to review this when Decca fixes at least two major issues: a defective disc of Brahms' German Requiem, and a mixup that gives us two copies of the 1957 La Mer rather than including the 1964 remake as advertised in the booklet. After delaying release of this set for over a year, you would think that Decca would have taken special pains to "get it right." Yeah, sure.

[@danieldicesare7365]

Once a company has decided that hiring and retaining competent people is a luxury they can't afford, it's all downhill from there.

[@albertpianist]

On that topic, I would like to give Brilliant Classics a quick shout-out. A few years ago I bought their Brahms edition from a local bookstore. It's brand new, but one of the discs erroneously came with the Beethoven piano concertos. My email to them was acknowledged on the same day, and my replacement disc was mailed to the US here within a week. Absolutely brilliant service.

[@trevorguy63]

Pun intended?

[@pmrossetti1]

That's the problem with the big box sets. It takes time to play all the discs and to find a defective one.

[@OuterGalaxyLounge]

Yessir. One reason I don't deal with them.

[@samlaser1975]

When are they going to resolve this dilemma? Please Ansermet!

[@stevenmartindale7638]

ha ha. Boooo!

[@Bobbnoxious]

"What could be more infuriating than listening to the entire 'German Requiem' and then have someone give you the finger in the closing minute? OMG!" I feel your pain - because I laughed at that harder than I should have...

[@jdistler2]

JPC is providing replacements for international customers, just to let you know.

[@brianrein]

Relevant to shoppers here: Decca never replaced my Grumiaux box defect CD. They emailed "sorry, it's taking longer than we thought," and then nothing else, ever. Just like Dave says.

[@chrisschmitz9034]

Update. I received a new box from Presto a few days ago, after returning one to Amazon. The timing numbers of La Mer from 1957 and 1964 are identical in the booklet but I think they are different performances. The Brahms Requiem is fine (track 7).

[@EddieJazzFan]

The last big box I got from Amazon was the Solti/London which came so dented and dinged up that I said never again. So I (begrudgingly) switched to the slightly more expensive Presto without free shipping, Their packaging is generally much better and the products arrive in pristine condition. They did send me and email last week about the delay, and I was annoyed at the time but not now, since I know the reason. I just hope they send me one of the "good" boxes! Thanks for the update Dave!!!

[@EddieJazzFan]

Presto in the UK has a new July 7th shipping date. Every two weeks they push it ahead another two weeks. I hope if it gets discontinued, I can get my $$ back.

[@dmntuba]

Presto has balls!...you gotta luv'em 🥰

[@peterboer9572]

I got a mail from JPC on the 15th of May about the defects of the Ansermet box. JPC will send the replacements when they are available. Good service!

[@classicrecordings]

Thank you. I have been waiting for this box, and now you have told me why. I will wait until the issue has been resolved, if not; I won't give them my money.

[@Sathoreas]

I can happily report I have received my copy and I haven't heard any problems playing the German Requiem and it definitely has two different La Mer performances.

[@socratez]

For the record, I did eventually receive the corrected Grumiaux disc. I actually received two, because the first one took so long to come that they sent me another one.

[@hugocalisto120]

Back when I lived in Italy for a couple of years, I bought the Pollini & Abbado complete DG recordings box (Italian Universal, I believe). The CD with the Berlin recording of Beethoven’s Emperor & Choral Fantasy featured Pollini all right, but it was the old Böhm recording with Vienna in the concerto! The exact same coupling I had bought decades before. Luckily I knew the Böhm recording quite well and I asked a couple of colleagues to double-check, so I complained and Universal Italy eventually sent me the proper CD. Another great example of labels listening to their own stuff, huh?

[@hugocalisto120]

@@bigalfactotum9935, I'm so sorry to hear that. I would still get in touch with Universal Italy and complain, in any case. But this level of incompetence and carelessness is really infuriating, and does nothing to alleviate paranoid tendencies. I shudder just to think about the ones I didn't catch and are just sitting around in my collection... The seed bank analogy is great, by the way!

[@nealkurz6503]

Thanks for giving a wider broadcast of this latest mess from Decca. At this point I think the inmates could run the asylum better than those who are in charge (sounds like the Monty Python "Those responsible for sacking the people who have just been sacked, have been sacked"). I suppose the safest bet for those of us in the US is to get it from Presto, since they seem committed to only selling corrected copies? While we're here talking about Decca's screw-ups, I have one that seems to never have been acknowledged, much less fixed, however minor I suppose it is. In the big 80cd Claudio Arrau complete Philips recordings set, on cd 59 the end of Tr. 4 (Liszt Chants polonais de Frédéric Chopin: Le petit anneau) has a 2 second pause before the next track. Only problem is the music should be continuous into Tr 5. The previous issue in one of those smaller Philips Arrau composer boxes DID get it right. I TRIED to contact Decca, and spread it around, but to no avail. Is it a huge deal? No...there's nothing missing, but it just goes to show their inattention to detail, and that they don't give a crap. I was sorry when the Van Beinum set was announced, because I knew of no way to alert them to issues that I knew would be overlooked. They seem unaware that their Nutcracker Suite master is several generations away from what it should be (compare to the Japanese CD issue and you'll hear the muffled veil lifted off of it, but this was always a fine sounding stereo recording before Eloquence issued whatever Decca handed to them, which is the same in the new set). They SHOULD have looked into this. Also the Mendelssohn 4th 3rd mvt nicks off the start of the attack of the 1st note. EVERY cd issue has this problem (Scribendum too, showing that they don't do their own work on these things), but it's there, last heard on the 8 LP box Philips put out around 1980. Why don't these labels do what BluRay labels do now on some of these "vintage" titles, and mine the vast knowledge of those of us nut jobs that could quality check things? I guess that would mean that they care, and obviously they don't.

[@mancal5829]

Thank you for giving us a voice.

[@edgecroft]

On top of that, the artwork on the outside of the box is horrific.

[@mdebbable]

I contacted Universal Germany about the faulty CDs and actually received a reply. They asked me to submit proof of purchase and promised to send me replacement CDs. These are supposedly in production at the moment.

[@stefanhuber7651]

Could you please provide the e-mail address you've sent your complaint to? Same situation here and I doubt that I will have any luck by contacting the seller of the set. Many thanks in advance!

[@maximisaev6974]

Dave: I'm sorry to hear of your frustrating experience and of those who purchased this particular Ansermet box. The previous Ansermet iteration consisting of three boxes "Russian," "French," and "European or Grand Tradition," I don't remember which "Tradition," was very well recorded, of excellent quality, and satisfactory in every way. I'm not sure if they're still available, and perhaps they cost more than this enormous doorstop you're exhibiting in this video, but maybe your viewers might want to go with the three box alternative instead? Thanks so much for adding to the quality of my musical explorations in life with your well informed videos. Take care!

[@davidtprice]

I received corrected replacement discs from JPC today (8/14). The folks at JPC weren't always very knowledgeable but were always unfailingly helpful.

[@rugerthedog396]

I will add a story about a record company that cared. Back in the early 2000's I got a call at work from Reference Recordings. I was so stunned that a record company was calling me that I spent the first thirty seconds of the call in a kind of mumbling disbelieving state. Finally we got around to the reason for the call. This was for a DVD data disc with one of Reference's then-new hi-res versions of a record by the Minnesota Orchestra they had recently sent me. Apparently their chief engineer had come to believe that the disc's sound was not optimum - the explanation was that the play head on the tape recorder used to digitize the selections became slightly clogged with excess tape oxide somewhere in the middle of process. The question was, could they send me a re-dubbed replacement copy at no charge. Of course they could! (What could they have possibly been thinking??) After the call I remained stunned that I had received a personal call from a tiny record company. Who would have thought any record company cared about customers even in the slightest. This episode remains my all time example of the highest level of customer service I've ever received by any company. Doubt Decca will ever reach that level of customer care.

[@EddieJazzFan]

Dave, Good news! I received my Ansermet Stereo Box today (July 10) from PRESTO and great news--The Brahms Mass (disc 20) plays perfectly AND the Two La Mer performances are indeed different, with different timings and sound. (I like the English Horn solo more on the earlier recording). Question: the book inside the box advertises the complete "Ansermet Mono Years" box, but there is no evidence of it existing anywhere. What's the deal with that? I wonder if it has been cancelled?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I have no idea. Hopefully it will show up some year.

[@DavidPrice-s6u]

I just got a note from jpc (Germany) that they are going to send replacement discs, but they didn't say when. The set is available on their site again, but at last check Presto is still not shipping.

[@bbailey7818]

As I recall, there was a defective disc in the massive Sony issue of the Ormandy PO monos complete. I forget which dusc it was but I remember they replaced it with a corrected disc by mail immediately. Compare and contrast.

[@LyleFrancisDelp]

By the way, the Brahms is surprisingly good. The German Requiem sounds great on open reel.

[@markmiller3713]

Your "take care" at the end sounded so defeated.

[@1984robert]

In my opinion people who works at classical music companies don't care about classical music and don't care about CDs. And they don't interested in. Maybe some of them do. CDs have another valuable feature too which is IN:DEX feature. Early Japanese releases use this feature to sign structural points in music. I have many early Japanese CDs where they use IN:DEX feature to show reprise, development and coda points in sonata form for example. It is a valuable and interesting feature for people like me who don't have musical education. Nowadays CD's don't use this feature and even CD players don't show it. I suppose even manufacturers don't know what is it. And this is just an example.

[@saginawdavis]

I first saw this feature in some of the Telarc discs from the 80s and 90s, specifically Previn's recordings of Richard Strauss. The Alpine Symphony is all on one 48:18 track, with timing done through IN:DEX. I was perplexed because it seemed like one could do a similar thing by using gapless playback between different tracks, with greater compatibility between different systems.

[@DrSFG]

Indexing was built into the development of the CD. Some CD players didn't have the capability and the majors decided they'd rather just use track stops rather than index stops. bossibly because it made it difficult to create .mp3s from these disks without pauses.

[@nicolasbrochet2147]

Decca has now issued the 2 corrected CDs. Grooveland has shipped it to me (even if I only complained about the Brahms Requiem CD, that is quiet a good service form them).

[@WilliamCheung-ol6os]

Excuse me, apart from Disc #20, what is the another defective disc?

[@nicolasbrochet2147]

@@WilliamCheung-ol6os CD37 which had the same 1957 La Mer than CD40 instead of the 1964 recording. I have yet to hear it but, as they sent me both CDs, I assume the fixed it too.

[@williamwhittle216]

Ansermet made two stereo recordings of La Mer: the first in 1957 on LP CS6024, the second on LP CS6437 in 1964. Let me know if I'm wrong.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Read the video description.

[@williamwhittle216]

@@DavesClassicalGuide Another senior moment! Sorry. Was not listening closely enough. Sometimes I'm distracted.

[@FREDGARRISON]

@@williamwhittle216 Another senior moment? It's nice to know there's an OLD FART out there other than me. By the way, I get them also...

[@ewmbr1164]

It is painful to watch how DECCA has descended into moronic incompetence after such a great past...I suspect the folks responsible have no clue about DECCA's legacy, let alone about classical music...

[@chrisalcott7046]

Decca could also drop the replacement disc in the mono box since most people who have the stereo years would want that too. Publishers do that niche board games and their expansions.

[@markmiller3713]

Of course Grumiaux. I wanted that so badly and wasn't able to get it. I'm just pissed.

[@tterrace]

As for Amazon returns, I've found that many (most? all?) items have return options that don't require you to pack them yourself. In fact I'm doing that with something - not a cd box though - today.

[@nealkurz6503]

The issue with returning something like this to Amazon, however slight it may seem at this point, is that if it goes on backorder and then goes out of print, then you end up missing out. If it were done right, you would hang onto your set and Decca would send you replacement discs like Sony does. Look at the Grumiaux set… if you returned that first pressing, then you probably missed it altogether.

[@peacearchwa5103]

I wonder if the project managers at Universal Music (Decca etc), Sony Music, Warner Classics actually have listened to the classical music contained within these box sets? Do these managers actually have real passion for classical music and legacy classical music artists?

[@gaames]

I always feel that the focus in your videos is on the background--can you bring it forward a bit, to yourself? I love your content and have learned a lot from it.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Eh? I'm not sure I understand what you're talking about. My focus is, first and foremost, on the music, and always the music.

[@heatherharrison264]

If this sort of thing keeps happening, Dave will need a new scarf. They must be pushing box sets out the door without any quality control, so this is likely to happen again. It's good that Presto is on top of it and is refusing to ship defective products. Amazon's lack of a response doesn't surprise me at all. I stopped buying music from Amazon a long time ago because of a variety of recurring problems.

[@DavidPrice-s6u]

Unfortunately the replacement discs were identical to the defective discs in the set.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Wonderful.

[@robertdandre94101]

a few years ago, I had bought the box set of brilliant classics '' alfred brendel, complete recording for vanguard, vox, turnabout vox''.... there was no booklet with index and lists of titles on cd , the more beethoven op 77 was missing (I had the lp of this work by alfred brendel on turnabout vox....!) the more four or five other works that alfred brendel had recorded for turnabout vox were missing, including the bartok , sonatas with percussion, the petrouska suite, etc etc. I wrote a brilliant classics which answered me fairly quickly, that they were sorry for this lack, that they had missed it, without telling me that they were going to correct it the situation. on my side I went to look for the missing works on you tube music in mp3, and I put all this on a cd-rom,..... and here it is, it's complete....! I had this problem two or three times afterwards, including a box set of sony classical ''philippe entremont, complete concerto recording''here in the saint-saens concertos, there was a problem with the tracks....at the place to hear the 3rd piano concerto, it is the fourth that I heard .... after having written an e-mail to sony class .... they sent me quite quickly a new corrected cd with the 3rd concerto....

[@alasdairthomas5603]

Thank you for calling them out on this, Dave. It is a total disgrace. You wouldn’t even need to know anything about classical music to fix these issues. It just needs an average level of attention to detail. Perhaps they should engage 2-3 of your viewers to check the prototypes of these boxes, in exchange for a free copy of the actual finished article? I don’t know. Anything is better than the current charade. I am one of those Presto customers still waiting for a (hopefully) corrected version. Let’s see how many of the problems they actually fix. I am not optimistic…

[@filmscoreloverify]

please stay positive!!!!!

[@ericakilian3]

It happens. I found a clean, used Mercury Living Presence CD of some Prokofiev pieces (Scythian Suite, The Love for Three Oranges, and Symphony No. 5). Well darn it a few minutes into the 4th movement of Symphony No. 5 an annoying crackle starts up and lasts for several minutes. By then of course my 30-minute investment in the piece is tarnished!

[@johnlydon1370]

Does anyone know what discs 85-87 are about. I can't find any information on the web. Is it some kind of audio lecture thingy🤔

[@brianburtt7053]

I have the three boxes of the previous Ansermet set. I think I'll stick with that...

[@Socrates8000]

The Ansermet set is available now on Presto. I wonder if it’s free of errors?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I don't understand why you people won't just write to them and ask.

[@Socrates8000]

I thought you would know 😊. Anyway, I bought my box, and I’ll report back when I get it.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Fair enough. Please do.

[@ozoz9582]

Wow, good work, question: I have the three Ansermet box sets on Decca: “Russian Music”, “French Music” and “The European Tradition” totaling 96 discs. Is this set a repackaging of those three sets or are these additional performances; please advise…Thank you for the best vids on KZbin on classical music - bar none!

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

This set has all the stereo stuff in the previous sets, but there was some mono stuff in the earlier sets too.

[@ozoz9582]

Got it, thank you!

[@ozoz9582]

Got it, thank you!

[@ozoz9582]

Got it, thank you!

[@ozoz9582]

Got it, thank you!

[@danielgreineder1456]

At this rate, Decca will probably reissue the Solti Ring without the first act of the Valkyrie.

[@LyleFrancisDelp]

Shame. Ansermet deserves better treatment. Are you listening Australian Eloquence? I have much of this on open reel and pretty much all I want on earlier Eloquence CDs. I’m good. I don’t need this Botched Big Box.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Australian Eloquence already released scads of Ansermet material, stereo and mono, as individual titles.

[@LyleFrancisDelp]

@@DavesClassicalGuide Yes. I have them. And they have none of the issues you’ve described here. Would be nice to have all in one box, but I’m happy with what I have.

[@DavidPrice-s6u]

I received my replacement discs from jpc today(!).

[@classicrecordings]

I see that Presto is now offering the set for sale. Do you know if they have copies with the issues you mentioned now corrected?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

No, I don't. I would ask them.

[@classicrecordings]

@@DavesClassicalGuide Just to let you and your listeners know. This was the response from Presto: ------------------------------------------------------------------- ​Dear Sir/Madam, Thank you for your email. I can confirm we are only selling the corrected version of Ernest Ansermet - The Stereo Years. ​Please feel free to ask any further questions. Kind regards, Presto Music

[@donaldjones5386]

Too bad. The German Requiem is a fine recording.

[@DavidJohnson-of3vh]

You must award them the threadbare canvass cloth Scarf of Disaster.

[@gonzostick]

Same mess with DG and the Boulez Stravinsky Symphony of Psalms, with an editing mistake!

[@amdir7902]

Are you talking about the "Boulez - The Conductor"-Box on DG or which version of the Boulez Symphony of Psalms? And what is the editing mistake there?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

It was on the original CD issue--they fixed it subsequently.

[@davidaltschuler9687]

One can appreciate the generosity of character of the Amazon reviewer to gave this 5 stars, saying quite reasonably that 3 errors in a huge box is not the end of the world. But then, that German Requiem HAS indeed already been released, and no remastering was done to any recordings here, so why was it rocket science to just slap a new label on this CD and get it right? The Scribendum box is a better buy in this case; longer CD times give us about 2/3 of this box at 40% of the Decca box price. No book or index and some inexplicable pairings with Scribendum, but overall a pleasure.

[@johkkarkalis8860]

The last time I saw an object of that size, that shape it was being used as a mace in a medieval joust. R.I.P Ernest.

[@walkure48]

Decca must be owned by Monty Python, especially when sets like this SHOULD be a Holy Grail. "We apologise for the fault in the subtitles. Those responsible have been sacked." "We apologise again for the fault in the subtitles. Those responsible for sacking the people who have just been sacked, have been sacked." "The directors of the firm hired to continue the credits after the other people had been sacked, wish it to be known that they have just been sacked. The credits have been completed in an entirely different style at great expense and at the last minute."

[@FREDGARRISON]

Glad someone else likes "THE HOLY GRAIL" other than me. Guess it's an acquired taste and having a warped sense of humor helps.

[@gavingriffiths2633]

You could save yourself the faff and buy the Scribendum Ansermet instead!

[@campbellfulton5602]

I’ld never heard of Ansermet

[@FREDGARRISON]

NEVER HEARD OF ERNEST ANSERMET (ON-SIR-MAY)? He made loads of recordings for Decca with the SUISSE (Swiss) ROMANDE ORCHESTRA in Geneva, Switzerland and else where I guess when they went on tour. Most are quite amazing, but he had his off days just like everyone else. Ernie's RIMSKY-KORSAKOV is quite good, so is his EMMANUEL CHABRIER and EDOUARD LALO. Keep watching Dave's videos, he'll fill you in on who's who.

[@cartologist]

And a raving looney antisemite to boot.