Another KJV Verse I Never Understood

[@halwilliams1682]

As I listened to your explanation of Ps. 37:8 I could not help but reflect back many years ago as a 19 year old at BJU. We were required to buy a Bible for OT Survey. I had no extra spending money so I bought the cheapest KJV the bookstore carried. There was much I did not understand but the verse that I remember most vividly was Rom. 1:18. I had no idea what "hold the truth" meant. Imagine my heartfelt appreciation when I read "suppress" in the NASB. Now I understood! I'm so thankful God intended His Word to be understood by all.

[@wardonwords]

I don't remember when I first understood that verse, but it's a perfect example of an important verse that gets garbled a bit by language change.

[@williamrobertson3643]

hold the truth ,that GOD has wrath and there is punishment for sin also when you have the holy bible you have the truth

[@williamrobertson3643]

hold the truth ,how about holding the bible in a unrighteous state before God suppress is not the same as hold , when you need more light read more around the verse also the truth stated in the above verses

[@debbie2837]

New subscriber. That word ‘goad’ makes sense to me as it made me think of how you can talk yourself into sin when you don’t immediately ‘capture’ your thought but instead, play w/ it & come up w/ reasonings, justifications, alternatives…& suddenly it doesn’t seem like such a big deal! So, even if that isn’t the right translation, it matches w/ the whole of Scripture. 😄 This reminded me of when I was pushed into being a choir leader. (Didn’t want to of feel equipped). But if I did one thing right, it was to insist we all KNOW what we were singing-including myself. It shocked me that very few knew what the words we sang (hymns or based on hymns). How can we lead the congregation if we don’t even know where we’re leading them? And so it is w/ the Word as well. I know I’m going to enjoy your channel.

[@Rawkabilly57]

I'm sure someone here has already said this but the way that Hebrew word is translated in many other places has the idea of feeding your anger, building it up, like how a person stokes a flame into a fire. So "cease from anger, forsake wrath. Don't feed your anger to do evil" I think the idea of getting yourself "all worked up" makes sense as well. All that to say the modern translations are much clearer to that point than the KJV

[@joseenriqueagutaya131]

Hi,I was listening to Insight for Living online yesterday and was following along in the Bible study guide corresponding to the series on Ephesians.On the study guide it was mentioned that Ephesians 4:12 has a comma in the wrong place.In the KJV verse 12 of Ephesians 4:12 it reads For the perfecting of the saints,for the work of the ministry,for the edifying of the body of Christ.There should not be a comma between saints and for in this verse because it is misinterpreted to mean that the gifts mentioned in verse 11 are the only ones responsible for perfecting or equipping the saints and work of the ministry and later lead to clericalism.I checked this verse in the NKJV,NASB,NIV and ESV and the misplaced comma was removed.Just want to share this thought and hope it maybe helpful.

[@wardonwords]

Thanks for sharing!

[@williamrobertson3643]

God gave the body of Christ these men to perfect the church and for the work of the ministry they are not the same

[@matthewfunk6658]

Good point about our hymns. I recently led "Come Thou Fount" in a new church and before singing, I asked if anyone knew what an Ebenezer was? Crickets. I taught them, and then we sang, with understanding, about raising a monument to God's help!!

[@wardonwords]

I ALWAYS explained that one!

[@cfrost87]

with how scripture talks about anger and worry in general, it lends itself to saying that anger and worry lead to evildoing/sin when left unchecked.

[@wardonwords]

Right!

[@stevenepstein6454]

I love it, my Spanish bible does says "to get exited" which would also be criticized by Spanish speakers as well 😢

[@davidbrock4104]

Can't help but think of the classic bluegrass tune "Going Back To The Blue Ridge Mountains".

[@wardonwords]

Don't know that one. Will have to look it up!

[@tclarknoise]

I believe fret in verse 1 means the same as in this verse. If you pull the single verse out of its context, it makes no sense, but if it’s read in the entire contexts of what was being talked before it, the Psalmist seems to be saying, “don’t fret about these things I’ve been talking about to the point where it can lead you to do evil as a means to achieve these things that the evildoers have, trust in the Lord”

[@wardonwords]

This is a good argument-and actually, I agree that you’ve got the point of the verse right. Context makes the overall point reasonably clear. But it really is at the phrase level that I still get lost. I just can’t make sense of “don’t fret yourself *in any wise* to do evil.” There are two things I just can’t wrap my mind around: 1) in our English, you can’t “fret to…” do anything. You can start to do things, you can plan to do things, but you can’t fret to do them. 2) And then there’s that “in any wise.” I just don’t understand how it gets me from fretting to doing. =|

[@postscript67]

@@wardonwords No, you can't fret to do something, but you can fret yourself to do something. 'Fret' here is used as a transitive verb. It takes an object. The object is 'thyself'. So it means: 'Don't worry yourself in any way into doing evil.' I use 'worry' there because it has the sense not just of causing apprehension but of tearing with the teeth, as a dog does to a bone. 'Fret' of course is linked to the German 'fressen' which, if I remember right from my schooldays, means much the same. But I suppose a more modern way of putting it would be annoy or irritate or provoke.

[@larrytruelove8659]

Mark, I’ve wondered about this verse in 2 Peter 2:20 more than once. I generally try to interpret Bible verses in context, and sometimes I’m at odds with a denominational interpretation or even a popular religious person. So, I’m told that my interpretation is private, personal, and simply wrong. Therefore, it is at odds with 2 Peter 2:20. Somehow the context appears to inform me that the Bible prophets were not acting on their own (verse 21). But I can’t figure out why most bibles use the word “interpretation.” It appears to mean the explanation of a meaning, much as we use it today. But I wonder if there’s another shade of meaning for “interpretation”. 2 Peter 1:20-21 20 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation,

[@wardonwords]

What commentaries do you have access to?

[@larrytruelove8659]

@@wardonwords I only have the Bible Knowledge Commentary by Zuck and Walvoord. The thing that trips me up is that “interpretation” is fairly close to the meaning that we use today. But, combined with “private” or “personal”, it seems like we can’t interpret on our own. What I’ve typically done is to say that the Bible prophets were not given the prophecy for themselves alone. But the word “interpretation” doesn’t mean “inspired prophecy.” So, when we come to the verse break between 19-20, people I talk to let the interruption isolate their connection between verses 19-20. I’ve often thought that if “interpretation” has another shade of meaning I didn’t know about, it would help. I could be over-analyzing, of course.

[@fr.johnwhiteford6194]

Here is how the NRSV reads "Do not fret-it leads only to evil." So obviously the use of the word "fret" is not wrong. The Brenton LXX translation reads: "fret not thyself so as to do evil." The much more recent New English Translation of the Septuagint likewise reads "Do not fret so as to do evil." And both of those translations seems like clearer ways (for us) of saying what the KJV text says. And while I would agree that the text in the KJV as it is dated, I think most people who use the KJV regularly would guess the correct meaning of the text, even if being put on the spot and asked made them question whether or not they had it right. Most of the KJV is not that difficult, and I think with a very limited amount of editing, these texts could be made much more easily understood without tossing the KJV out entirely.

[@wardonwords]

I agree that with a limited amount of editing these texts could be made much more easily understood, without tossing out the KJV entirely. And I’d love to be the one to do the work.

[@fr.johnwhiteford6194]

@@wardonwords it wouldn't take much editing. The KJV is not perfect, but it is beautiful, and beauty matters fatherjohn.blogspot.com/2019/07/beauty-and-bible.html

[@fr.johnwhiteford6194]

And the KJV was never in the common language of everyday conversation. It is the religious register of English fatherjohn.blogspot.com/2016/09/king-james-english-and-orthodox-worship.html

[@wardonwords]

I agree that beauty matters! That's why I like the ESV. But the KJV has become the religious register of English; it wasn't always so. Sure, it wasn't "in the common language of everyday conversation" either-it was higher than that. But it didn't always carry the overtones of solemnity and even grandeur it does now. I talk about this in my book.

[@fr.johnwhiteford6194]

@@wardonwords the ESV is perhaps better than a hole in the head, and it is certainly better than the NIV, but only because it has something left of the cadence of the KJV. It also is based on a revised text that is at odds with what the Church has ever used.

[@jordinthornburg4512]

Hi Mark. Thank you for your work on this channel and your book. All has been helpful for me personally in my understanding of Bible translations and the KJVO controversy. I wanted to get your thoughts on Romans 16:1. The word used for Phoebe’s role in the church. Servant or deacon? The Greek word is, “diakonon” not “doulos” yet some translations say servant not deacon. This is probably controversial because of the belief women can’t serve in the office of deacon. Appreciate if you have time to reply or do a video. Thanks!

[@wardonwords]

The Greek word "diakonos" didn't originally mean "deacon" but "servant." It's used that way in places like Matt 22:13: "Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot." But it came to have a technical force within the Christian church over time, to name the office of "deacon." The problem is with the edge cases like Rom 16:1 where it's simply not clear whether the more generic or the more technical sense is in use. I have a personal feeling on this one. Maybe I will do a video!

[@jordinthornburg4512]

Ahhh I see. That’s interesting about the deacon and church history. I’ve recently just transitioned to a new ministry and the role of deacon here seems to be misunderstood. I’ve been doing some reading and studying on the subject more than I ever have. I really appreciate your thoughts and responding to my question. A video would be great! Only if you have time of course. Keep up the great work. Lord bless you.

[@customstoryteller]

Hey. I was a camper at the Wilds in the Summer of ‘99. I’m guessing that’s the camp you were counselor?

[@wardonwords]

Yes! That's it! In 1999 I was on the Scarlet Knights, and my friend Jeremy McMorris, now a pastor, was our team leader. The female counselor I mention in this video is a pastor's wife not far from me, actually, and I'm still friends with her husband, who was a counselor on my team in 2000. Good guy.

[@customstoryteller]

@@wardonwords I was in the Scarlet Knights. Cabin Oscar of Meyer.

[@customstoryteller]

@@wardonwords I think my counselor’s name was Ian. Does that sound familiar?

[@wardonwords]

Yes, Ian McConnell! Great guy. A pastor today.

[@jesusisthechristthesonofgod]

fret means to fray

[@The.Liminal.Spaces]

Background music is not serving a good purpose here especially when hearing annoying tune on repeat

[@wardonwords]

I agree! I cut it after a few videos.

[@The.Liminal.Spaces]

@@wardonwords much appreciated! And thank you for your awesome work!!

[@seansimpson1133]

The earlier English versions such and Coverdale and the Matthew bible say not to let jealousy move you to do evil. Good video mark. Love your stuff.

[@wardonwords]

Thank you so much! Hmm. I can make better sense of those renderings than I can of the KJV. I still have to remind myself of what that phrase means.

[@seansimpson1133]

@@wardonwords Same! I was actually memorizing this verse a few months ago and had the exact same issue. I kept asking myself what does “Fret not thyself” mean? As I guy who reads mainly the KJV I truly want to thank you for your false friend videos. They truly are helpful brother. I never realized how many words I didn’t know that I didn’t know. Some have actually led me into false conclusions! God bless(:

[@ashleycapulso9200]

I am from the philippines! a big fan of your channel and i am from a Church that uses only the KJV. but i also read NASB and others!

[@wardonwords]

Great! I have multiple friends in the Philippines-and I'm glad you read multiple translations.

[@williamrobertson3643]

multiple versions are all corrupted that has not help they are from corrupt catholic manuscripts

[@americanswan]

Over the last 20 years I've used the KJV almost exclusively and will continue to do so, but I'm not a KJV onlyism subscriber. I like the NASB a lot. The 1901 ASV is fantastic. The Geneva Bible is what I'm listening to now.

[@wardonwords]

Great! Enjoy!

[@ETOEstate]

I say the KJV only adherents that castigate the new translations were the first to promote distrust of the bible. God is able to preserve His Word.

[@eeffocecapse]

I feel the same way about Colossians 2:23. I've been raised on the KJV all my life and I never understood what this verse meant until I read another version.

[@wardonwords]

Right on. That one is particularly difficult in the KJV.

[@williamrobertson3643]

looking in another version is wronrg because the manuscripts do not come from the same source do not you know this information and saints listen to you as some kind of authority ??if someone changes the sentence does that explain the hard verse, I BELIEVE THE TRANSLATORS HAD A BETTER UNDERSTANDING THAN ANY BIBLE CORRECTOR DOES AND THEY HAD BETTER SOURCE MATERIAL THAN THE PERVERTERS OF SCRIRTURE TODAY

[@williamrobertson3643]

IT IS ABOUT A PERSON WORSHIPPING THEIR WILL IN DENYING AND ABSENTING FROM THINGS TO BE LOOKED UP TO AS WISE AS IN FALSE RELGION

[@stevenepstein6454]

KJV English doesn't bother me. It is obviously weird, but I don't walk away frustrated. The concern would be if a word leads me to believe something that was not inspired by God.

[@helgeevensen856]

re. "fret" in Psalm 37.8b.... of course it is not the word "fret" isolated which is the point... it is the sentence in context... as to the Hebrew not meaning "fret" or "worry", that was a strange suggestion... Robert Young, a 19th cent. Hebrew scholar *disagrees* with you , for in his translation, in the final edition of 1898, he has translated (in his very literal version): "fret not thyself only to do evil"... this was not a 17th cent. rendering, but a 19th cent. one... and interestingly, the very circumstance that words had changed in meaning, was what, for Dr. Young, sparked the interest in learning Hebrew and Greek and translating the Bible, leading to his new translation... but he still translated fundamentally as the KJV translators in this verse... if you think a little further on the expression "fret not thyself in any wise to do evil" or Young's "fret not thyself only to do evil" - taken in context with what precedes: "Cease from anger, and forsake wrath:", so the whole verse is read in context... one of our Norwegian versions is rendered in Ps.37.8b (into mod. English): "... do not become troubled, so you do not do the evil (thing)" ... somewhat different, but that is the fate of bible translating... but this is in essence what i see in the KJV text (with my limited English background)... real interesting that the NKJV uses the word "fret" : "Do not fret-it only causes harm." ... different still, ... but the point is, they rendered it "fret" in the 20th cent.... (also, Ps.37.1a: "Do not fret because of evildoers." NKJV - "Fret not thyself because of evildoers" KJV) ... so maybe James D. Price don't know Hebrew?... :-))

[@wardonwords]

"Maybe James D. Price doesn't know Hebrew"-yes, this is possible. He may have successfully executed an elaborate deception.

[@lorenzoespinosa1168]

I wish I could have a personal study bible . I dont have money to buy it . But I thank GOD for helping me to study the scripture in online and thanks to you brother great help .

[@wardonwords]

Do you have a smart phone? There's so much you can access that way. Bible.org is a great place to start. The NET Bible is one of the best study Bibles, and the only one I ever use nowadays.

[@debbie2837]

Opps, didn’t check the date on your post. I hope you have your own Bible by now!

[@brucemcqueen5395]

First off let me say that I agree, a Bible that you can not understand does you very little good. I'm glad that we have all the different translations that we do. They can, when used correctly, enhance your understanding of God's word. That's the way they should be used. Now, having said all that, I believe that sometime we might over analyze certain verses in scripture. "Fret not thyself to do evil", to me has always meant, don't worry yourself to the point that you might do evil, or entertain the notion of doing evil. I'm certainly no scholar but this makes sense to me. Do I know that I'm right with a 100% certainty, no, but I feel close enough to understand that I shouldn't worry or do evil. Bible translation for the most part is a hit or miss game. Nobody can really know what the translators meant by every passage they wrote, except for them. As long as the major doctrines and teachings aren't disturbed by our lack of understanding, I think we will be ok.

[@wardonwords]

I really think you're mostly right! But if it's so easy to learn what a passage means-as easy as picking up a modern translation-why not do that? Apparently you do, which is great! More power to you! But there are many people who refuse to read anything but the KJV.

[@edwardwicks304]

Hi, you are like the new talk show host, if you enjoy talk radio, who comes on the air and only wins about 50% of the audience. The other 50% don't like the new guy because they don't understand him. The audience doesn't understand the host and his perspective. As you tune in long enough and give the host a chance, in time you begin to see more fully the host's perspective. You see where he's coming from. You actually enjoy his ideas and commentary. This is who you are for me... Thanks!

[@wardonwords]

Wow, Edward! Thank you for this! That's encouraging and insightful. I do believe I've seen this happen with several "opponents" and skeptics of mine.

[@americanswan]

The Geneva Bible is OLDER than the KJV and has a comment on the verse which gives insight.

[@wardonwords]

"Meaning, except he moderate his affectiōs, he shalbe led to do as they do." Geneva Bible: Notes, vol. 1 (Geneva: Rovland Hall, 1560), 242. Cool!

[@lrlasvegas6427]

Linguistics + the Bible = SO COOL!

[@wardonwords]

Yes!

[@DennisRegling]

Another winning video

[@wardonwords]

Thank you, sir!

[@andrewwillington8710]

Authorised King James is the version of the versions. In some publications the meaning of the hard words is given below the verse.

[@wardonwords]

And in all my years in Christian circles I have never run into a Christian who was actually using one of those editions. I wish all KJV editions had those glosses!

[@simsanderson8543]

"I definitely had a condensing attitude" and still do Matt. Fretting is working yourself up. Work yourself up to do evil. Not controlling your thought life until you end up in a position where evil (sinning against God) is reasonable or even the next step.

[@wardonwords]

I’m glad when others understand, even if I do not!

[@williamrobertson3643]

is this really a difficult verse,it means do not be vexed tormented eatten up with desire to do evil to others

[@wardonwords]

What does "in any wise" mean?

[@Shejo284]

There is something very wrong with this video's message, much of which I disagree with. If this message is true, then the use of old literature as they are translated to gain insight in bygone eras can never be trusted at all. I love learning the language of that era as it is special and important to me. Perhaps the OCD of this video is one reason we have nearly 1000 translations and fewer and fewer true Christians.

[@wardonwords]

Shejo284, I'm afraid I don't understand your comment, except for the first sentence… Second try?

[@victo5480]

What other books would you like to update, because the English is outdated? By your reasoning a lot of books written 50 years ago would be too hard to read, by younger readers.

[@wardonwords]

Indeed. I’m not proposing that we make all books easier to read. I enjoy reading (certain!) difficult books. I’m saying that we should eliminate unnecessary difficulties from a *translation* of the Bible by updating archaisms.

[@morningst4r713]

Sir, if you can’t understand that scripture, and those words you mentioned, then why should anyone read your books? No disrespect. 😁

[@wardonwords]

Because I've come to realize most place where I didn't understand, but I'm afraid most exclusive readers of the KJV have not. They can use some help, like the help I needed.

[@Ishallnotquit777]

Oh for crying out loud! What next to attack Gods word!

[@wardonwords]

I am not attacking God's Word. I love the Bible and have staked my life on its truths.

[@christianewing1113]

You used the wrong definition on purpose for fret. You're arguement is a fallacy.

[@wardonwords]

Friend, I've given some pretty careful arguments, and I'm afraid I don't understand your counterargument. Try me again?

[@PrayAndStudyTheBible]

You profess being wise, but with your selfentitled attitude and prideful acting prove nothing than foolishness. 21th century all knowing youtuber

[@wardonwords]

Pray for me, then, my friend, that I might not sin.

[@PrayAndStudyTheBible]

@markwardonwords I pray 🙏 i also pray that you are saved, so that the Holy Spirit guides you to the truth

[@PrayAndStudyTheBible]

@markwardonwords are you saved or you are being saved? Because this is the main dispute between KJV vs ,,modern translations"