Anti-Motivated

[@frasergorrie1941]

I've been programming for 40 years. When motivation ebbs this low (as it appears to for the person who contributed their thoughts on motivation for this episode), a point has been reached where the fun of the work has been overshadowed by other things. That person is at the point where much wisdom is coming. Perhaps it will be a breakthrough moment when the enjoyment of programming will return. Or perhaps they will realize that something else in their life has become important and needs attention. In the absence of those realizations, progress maintains a sort of tension between doing the daily work and searching for something that seems missing. These ebbs have occurred for me as well. I've learned to welcome the feeling and turn off the puzzle-solving part of me for a time. It's amazing to me how quickly helpful things start to appear around you or occur to you.

[@BlackSagres]

Fraser Gorrie this is a fantastic way to look at it. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

[@mfaine]

This is the best reply I've heard yet about it and seems to have the benefit of being both wise and true :)

[@theguyordie]

I watched until the end! I land on the side of understanding that the feeling of being unmotivated often lies before periods of great motivation. Nothing can be 100% go 100% of the time. It’s important to feel down and out of it for a while, but just as important to be ready to hop on the horse again when you feel that spark.

[@jessepoulton224]

Identifying a issue that your workplace will need to overcome in the future is what i like to use as a jumping board for learning something. Coming up with a solution often means learning new things. Not having a deadline (as you've set this task yourself) means you have all the time in the world to try various options. I think most people would find it irksome to be doing all this "work for free" though, but there's no need to present your findings, do it for yourself. This way you get to work/learn from a "real world issue" without the real world pressure.

[@76Freeman]

Watched until the end. I totally relate to this person, il in my early 40s and I got a job in programming beginning this year and I did learned a lot, however, I know I need to learn new things that could help me in my career, but I have little time to learn, I try to learn during my commute but it s not ideal. I though perhaps that we would have the opportunity to do so at work but once the technology has been set, you just stick with it. Plus it's hard to tell your client that we would need budget for refactoring to implement this new pattern because if you start implementing new patterns in the middle of the project this can really add to the learning curve of new members of the project. What would be your advice in this? I clearly don't have enough experience to make a call. Thanks for the great topics and content

[@justinoneill2837]

I'm in a 3-person startup creating a software product and while I was 100% motivated in the beginning, I'm extremely unmotivated now hence what has brought me here. You guys have made many good points that i'll bring back up and also add a few more as to why I might* be feeling this way. We're almost rearing the 3 month mark and we have yet to launch the product. This is due to some technical debt and also team members not carrying their weight/ not performing in a way you expect, or giving deadlines that aren't accurate which creates "blockers" for me. Sometimes I get the feeling of the entire projects success resting on my shoulders. We're at that "10% left" mark, which is the hardest part.. And it's tough pushing through. I'm not giving up... just venting. It's good to know I'm not the only one

[@carleinarsson851]

i've been here as well, bought courses from udemy, struggled through them without really learning anything, or well i learned but i learned to the the exact exercises given to me in the course. The solution for me was to create a and build a real project that include the skills i want to learn. Use the udemy course theory, but build your own projects. Do you wanna learn javascript, create a simple todo list in javascript, when you have built that you can add more features to it like login functionality, then you got to work with a database, fetch data from some API.. you get it. Just start building something, be curious and learn stuff along the way.

[@mosesdrake3721]

I've been really down as well, so I am taken several sessions at the tanning booth (fake sun tan). I've also just spent some time meditating/evaluating where I am and where I'm going personally and professionally.

[@navroze92]

To be honest I watched in the begging, got curious then got a little bored towards the middle and then finished by watching the end of the video. Although I do like the idea of two people having a conversation cause two minds are better than one. The only suggestion I would like to give is to bring in some fun element. But as always good work.

[@mfaine]

navroze92 same here. I think the concept is sound. I can understand though how it can be hard to execute. It's different from the entirely scripted content. That's not necessarily bad we've just all been trained for so long to steadily decrease our attention span :)

[@crisacosta1319]

Thanks for this guys. I have been feeling this lately especially that i work full time and after my 9 hour shift i spend 4-5 hours learning javascript on FCC. I guess this is a normal phase but it is already taking its toll on me that i have nightmares about learning codes but i know i must go thru this.

[@ItIsMrE]

Made it to 18:03 BUT it hit home so hard when you went on to talk about how you need a project to learn something new. I am the say way! Without a pushing force, without something saying this needs to get done because someone is going to benefit from or see it, I get past the "fun" parts and just bail out. I get to the point where it's a case of "Well... What is the point in continuing this? I can learn this whenever I want so if it does not have a purpose... Then... Screw it.". It's a really hard state to get past but I'm trying some new and different things to get out of the state of mind that I need to benefit someone in order to have a reason to benefit myself. // Which sounds weird because technically I am a person but who really cares about themselves nowadays? LOL!

[@mtheoryx83]

Watched to the end, was hoping the final 30 seconds would have turned into an unedited train wreck. Great video, David and MPJ!

[@darkdjordje]

I watched til the end :) (Well, listened, I listen to most youtube videos unless the visuals are important) I like the format, and I think the topic is very relevant to a lot of people. I've recently shifted up my professional life up a bit so am not currently going through anything similar, but lord knows I've had battles with different kinds of burn-out in the past, including this one.

[@robertm647]

Good job guys watched to the end. Looking forward to the next one.

[@FlyingOctopusKite]

Enjoy this format, one random question David, what is that small blue and white shower curtain looking thing behind you?

[@OfficialDevTips]

A door replacement to a closet. Packed with junk. Have a temporary (?) studio at my mother-in-law’s house...

[@NoahNobody]

I'm 42 and I get the anti motivation thing just like this person, but it's only in the spring/summer. When the autumn comes around, I get motivated again.

[@raulhespinosa]

Please do more videos like this one, not everything is about programming, congrats!

[@boyd7344]

Watched till the end. Keep up these videos! You guys are great and helpful.

[@indieNik]

Umm.. This is good BUT, I was really expecting and looking forward to the second video in the series of "Let's build an online business" Can we expect that soon?

[@OfficialDevTips]

Yes

[@funfunfunction]

It should also be added that if you expect to always see the next episode of a series the next week, you are going to be disappointed. We will always mix it up. The reason is partially because we've seen that the audience very quickly fatigues and drops of if we chain series back-to-back, but also that we ourselves get less energy and that shows in the videos.

[@indieNik]

Fun Fun Function Makes sense! :) Appreciate you taking time to reply at length. Thank you so much!

[@FidgetwickGnomebody]

Hey guys, I liked the conversational flow of this video. Especially with type and topic of the question/comment being discussed. (I am in a similar situation but without having been hired yet) That said, the video did drag a few mins too long IMHO. Not sure if due to length or due to lack of cohesive answer to questioner. Maybe both. Keep up the great work you two:)

[@saimanish7634]

@mpj Can we expect a full-fledged course from you on a website like udemy?

[@ilhomhuja]

can U do some videos about oAuth 2.0 please? Dev Tips or Fun Function, this topic is hard to understand....n implement on scripts...

[@OfficialDevTips]

You have watched this already, right? kzbin.info/www/bejne/nGayfXesrLVgi8k

[@senhorsulaiman5341]

Really love the way u talk watched till the end .So true the techonolgy changing every day always stuck in finding which one will be helpful in long run .I registred for codeshool but didn't anything learn from there.As you said when you learn by projects you will not get bored.Guyz u r doing really goood job intersting stuffs are coming keep going.

[@algorithmic123]

Watched until the end!

[@Supadiri]

I would really like to change job, too many years in the same place with the same people. Scary however because I have a 2yo child, I'm 37 (and feeling "too old" to make this decision) and so I feel stuck.

[@Supadiri]

Thank Mast, I really appreciate your answer. I'll do my best to "look outside the box" to find a solution.

[@ivofs]

Motivation is a hard thing for me too and what it usually means is that I'm burning out and need time off. Try reading books, walking, working out and/or anything not tech related. It helps (and some sun)

[@csivi]

Watched til the end. Good format, keep them short and focused!

[@BradAdams83]

Interesting topic and pertinent to me as well. Appreciate the thoughts. I watched to the end. ;)

[@0-Will-0]

I like this format. Maybe with a few minor changes it could be even better, but don't ask me what those changes should be... MPJ, you are spot on with not placing importance on money. Society and advertising etc. leads us in this direction but it is easy to get caught up with earnings and get messed up. I am actually happier now my earnings are decreasing, as I am having to work harder and think more carefully about what I work on and do.

[@SykoSilver]

Here at the end of the video. I'm not sure about this format. Perhaps if it had more structure? I do think there is value in discussing lifestyle issues for programming. Maybe you can do a video for getting into programming if you do not have a lot of money... When you are learning in this context, where is it best to invest your time?

[@KvinTeraZ]

Motivation in learning is crucial element. I've been learning (self taught) for more than a year, luckily i always manage to motivate my self by finding new projects to code. So i agree with Mattias that learning through projects is the better than.. hmm.. plane, dry info... lets call it that :) Just as a suggestion try to code something You could use, something You could show. Examples, portfolio page for yourself. A website for something you are passionate about (guitars, sports, cocktails, pottery....). Or an application of some kind for ex.: calculator for (calories, budget, cryptocurrencies or time you spend in shower). Remember coding is a fun and awesome skill to have and if in a future you can get paid for it... well thats another motivation right there ;) Cheers!

[@sjaustirni1678]

I went for the coffee but still enjoyed it. Good job, you two, as always.

[@brumajs6274]

So, have you done the title first or the last? :D

[@codruterdei]

Great job. Watched till the end. Keep it up guys!

[@Ecker00]

Good content, did watch almost to the end. I'm very interested in the challenge he is facing. But felt it was too much banter in the video, maybe brainstorm some ideas before recording.

[@madisonelliott3357]

just got back with my coffee. Is the video over? :)

[@CarlJdP]

Watched to the end :) I also find myself in this nowhere-land space from time to time - but in the corporate environment where I work I find people's closed mindedness and unwillingness to change outdated processes to be the thing that mostly "kills my inner child" of excitement for doing the job I love. A few of us are trying to implement pair programming and TDD in the office but it is being met with lots of push back from long time senior devs: "But it's working (most of the time) as is, why would you want to change it?" - Cos we are a team I tell em: Readability & Maintainability is paramount - It does not count if it "worked on your machine".. @mpj - I have the same attention span problem as you described, I've never been able to finish any year at university - typical in INTP types. Nowadays the only way for me to keep being motivated at work is to have other non-work problems that I try to solve in my spare time, perhaps with a language I have not used before. It gives me a great feeling of accomplishment to finally see the thing I've built (out of passion for learning new things, and not for money) living on it's own out there in the wild improving people's lives..

[@FeanaroKurufinve]

Awesome video, very interested topic, but as always with recorded streams, we get a lot less... action???.. than with videos per se, those for which you probably write a script etc. I think it would be cool if you didn't just cut the stream, but instead made a video with a summary on the topic, maybe including some parts of the stream. I understand that would be much more time-consuming, though.

[@OfficialDevTips]

What you describe is pretty much a scripted episode :)

[@xerr0n]

Interesting comments by Dev and Fun on the weather, i started to go down downhill when i bought a new matt (100%, nothing let through) curtain and left it down/closed so no (95%) light outside got through it, and i just went on and on and on on what i was doing, reading wuxia in my case ie pointless mass reading(think ive read about 15000 (15K) pages on various chinese/asian fantasy novels the past 6 months). it's my own created problem further in that i just let loose after working 60-80(perhaps even 90 hour, sometimes i just went on for 36 hours, no sleep (this is what finally got me)) hour weeks for two years and limiting myself to rest for the last 6 months. I find though that i just am not used to resting/slacking, off my focus runs for only a day, ie if i play then i usually play for the day, if i work i usually work for the day if nothing interrupts me and this is the crux of the current me, i can only do one thing a day very good and suck at most else. What i have learned this past 6 months is that consistent daylight, ie no curtains if you can help it, and exercise makes all the difference for me, the light gets me up right on time provided you go to sleep mostly at the same time (the time you wake up is more important than the time you go to sleep, also naps may not be longer than 30 min as that destroys your nights sleep), exercise makes me going as i feel "hot"(physical temperature) and ready for more. also a neat little quirk for me or perhaps for more people, i can do exercises longer and more easier if i eat lightly an hour before doing exercises, usually chocolate for me, i just find the almost robotic will to do more reps while i think about things. i say its a quirk in that my roommate felt aching the next day after eating chocolate, then again perhaps he's the one with the quirk :) NB: ill review this after i've sobered up!

[@WaylonWalker]

Mpj seems happy

[@DanielPersson]

Hi from different town.

[@MikeMols]

Like the format. Keep it up!

[@PCGamesAndTek]

I like the podcast format. It seems more free form, less polished, and your thought processes are laid out bare.

[@Programadorbr]

Watched till the end

[@solarburster]

Another reason why people skip "why" -art in vids is because they already have their own motivations and reasons to learn that particular technique/concept/subject.

[@Lin4pin]

Interesting topic. Watched till the end

[@patrasculucian2403]

I watched till the end. Although I can't relate to the topic because I'm just 6 months into this, it was still interesting, a little low on energy tho

[@Phloteck]

I made it to the end, this was a good conversation though.

[@wesleycoder]

I always watch the full video here and at funfunfunction but when rants go for too long I tend to disperse my self.

[@xXAllmosXx]

I watched till the end!

[@JoshuaHeagleDev]

Watched it to the end!

[@tommytomtomtomestini3894]

I watched both videos, interesting topics but it felt very inpromptu. You kept straying away from the main topic, which is not bad if you return in timely fashion. At times I was like "Uhh, so what does this have to do with anything?" Just my two öre.

[@dubnitsky]

till the end, now at the described moment just left the job to get fresh again

[@gipek]

I watched it yes, till the endd

[@shatley123]

I'm pretty engaged :) but I must admit I was a little bit distracted by playing guitar.

[@FlyingOctopusKite]

Made it to the end :)

[@Laek4]

I listened to the end

[@kaboomer13]

I watched all of it :)

[@Gabriel-iq8jw]

Yea, till the end too

[@sweepstakes]

Slightly awkward laugh @7:48

[@BrettCooper4702]

Tutorials without means of why the function is useful and just have the 'now you enter 10 dafa "code" system don't work well at learning. The learning of one level deeper into the level of code your writing in. Money is not the foundation of motivation? Can depend on how much and need.

[@mfaine]

Brett Cooper No it absolutely is not. There have even been studies that show that above a certain income happiness does not increase. I know that for me personal fulfillment is far more important than money, though I guess that mostly really only applies at realistic scales. An extra 10 or 20k a year would probably not be life changing but could I say the same about a million? I never understood people who have a lot of money but still want more. I probably will never be in the position to know.

[@BrettCooper4702]

I see your point, but being on 10k i can totally see the difference 20k and 40k would give my personal spending habits. It really depends on the work.

[@javicarmonagalvez]

I watched until the end :3

[@blakemastrud5085]

i made it to the end!

[@OfficialDevTips]

Yas!! ☀️

[@Pirsanth17]

Have been watching with fika

[@moonsdonut5188]

i stayed till the end

[@SuperMachineElf]

I watched it all 😂

[@wilfridtaylor]

Went for coffee in a different town :p

[@MrZelnoth]

17:45 I watched. ;)

[@ShadeTheAwsome]

I like it

[@NoahNobody]

Finnish flag?

[@OfficialDevTips]

Ship/navigation flag! I think it is used sort of as a give-way sign.

[@sygo]

Motivated'nt

[@alessiobreviglieri4154]

Engaged!

[@brumajs6274]

Bad intro. Good content.

[@serpianrex]

Sorry, I watched only 3 minutes and got bored. Please get back to do tutorials, this kind of stuff works better in a forum. Other option would be to change the format. The stuff you did at the beginning moving in your home with the camera following you was weird and not really needed.

[@DrempDK]

I'm engaged

[@mfaine]

Jonas Røssum Congratulations! j/k

[@sholomaber]

Watched till 'minute too long' :)

[@christophervistal6036]

:)

[@cos_marc]

Watched to that part :)

[@technicalchirag]

1st comment may be again

[@prezadent1]

Come on devtips, don't reward this BS