Anvil 022: Pederson Device recovery

[@deboshadow]

The "oh absolutely" needs to be clipped into a meme.

[@leorapsonjr7659]

Lol I think that is my new ring tone

[@jimmythobbo4332]

Indeed

[@danieldillon6005]

The Pederson device was a pcc kit before pcc kits were a thing and its such a cool bit of engineering

[@ostiariusalpha]

Kind of like how the original M1911 prototype was a cool bit of engineering that became a respectable weapon after undergoing about a dozen design iterations. Sadly the Pedersen device didn't get that kind of opportunity for refinement.

[@danieldillon6005]

@@ostiariusalpha modern pederson device when

[@LUR1FAX]

@@ostiariusalpha The issue is that the Pedersen device is a PCC designed to fit inside an M1903 Springfield rifle. Not only is that a very impressive thing to pull off, even if it didn't work. But it's a pretty pointless task. The U.S. would probably have been better off issuing pistol caliber lever-action rifles.

[@ostiariusalpha]

@@LUR1FAX That's a lot more weight to carry an M1917 Enfield (which is what they would be equipped with if not for the Pedersen conversion kit) and a separate lever action, against inserting the smaller device and carrying more ammo mags. At least, ideally speaking.

[@ScottKenny1978]

@@ostiariusalpha Was about 15lbs of extra gear for the Pedersen kit.

[@oscarfloyd2678]

Damn, I was really looking forward to watching acraglass set and dry today.

[@jpkalishek4586]

Don't know what's scarier. That someone thought packing what essentially is a pistol into a bolt and chamber of a .30 '06 made sense, that someone managed to make it work, or Mark's socks.

[@ScottKenny1978]

I'm going to go with making it work. I've seen scarier socks, but after watching the C&Rsenal on the Pedersen Device I am absolutely amazed that it worked.

[@randomidiot8142]

Well, we still have 32 acp and 30 carbine inserts for 308 and 30-06. If someone makes a semi-auto bolt and mag adapter for a 308 that would be an interesting camp gun.

[@ScottKenny1978]

@@randomidiot8142 the Semi-auto part of that would be a pain in the ass. Bolt action rifles have a simple dropping sear with no disconnector. The M1903Mk1 has some extra parts added to work as the disconnector in the rifle. I should add that I'm surprised that the Pedersen Device wasn't a full auto. I mean, they were planning on each grunt carrying some 400 rounds of ammo for it!

[@randomidiot8142]

@@ScottKenny1978 The bolt action rifle trigger might not have the right stock trigger mechanism, but if you can make a semi-auto adapter that's just a small hurdle. A disconnecter on a system like that would be easy, like a tippmann 98 paintball trigger mechanism for example. Technically the tippmann is an open bolt, I know, but it would work. I thought the pederson was from the bolt action magazine cutoff time period and before pcc/smg doctrine, so semi-auto makes sense to me..? 🤷‍♂️

[@ScottKenny1978]

@@randomidiot8142 pretty sure that ATF would not like the design if you were selling the adapter and the replacement trigger. A big sign sayings "you will commit a felony with a penalty of $100k fine and 10 years in prison if you don't install the trigger group" isn't likely to fly. "Easily converted to full auto" and all that. You'd probably have to have the buyers send you their rifle to install the new trigger and send it back with the semi-auto bolt. While you're right about when the Pedersen Device was made, it was also in the middle of Schnellfeuer, MP18s, and the inspiration for the Thompson. Not to forget that the extra bits in the Mk1 ruin the trigger pull.

[@outspokengenius]

The first time I ever heard of the Pederson device was back in 2002-2003ish I was at a local gun store and a 1903 with the Pederson cutout came in. Even though the owner was well versed in U.S. Military firearms he looked the gun up in the Blue Book and mentioned the Pederson cutout. Nobody in the store including myself had ever heard of the Pederson device. Over the years I heard it mentioned in several books and videos but nobody ever showed one. It wasn't until Ian over at Forgotten weapons did a video on one that I had any clue what it looked like. You are a very lucky gunsmith to get the chance to work on something so rare and valuable. You seem to get the pleasure of working on a fair amount of rare guns.

[@MickeyD2012]

Mark is one of the only people I would trust with such a rare and valuable piece of history.

[@1Ringsmith]

Getting a Pedersen to work ! Mega respect from across the pond, love seeing someone machine in the way my father & grandfather taught me, well done that man !

[@timwilk320]

I don't know how I have been watching gun vids on KZbin for 10 years and just found this channel! Best channel on KZbin right here!!!

[@marknovak8255]

Great to have you aboard. Spread the word.....!

[@vive6500]

I'm glad the classic videos are being reuploaded. One of my favorites was the rifles that got blown up.

[@Fawnarix]

I very much appreciate the mechanical and engineering indicative of every Anvil episode.

[@alex4alexn]

id watch you acroglass stuff, thank you guys very much for reuploading the old anvils, i missed many of them

[@HarryP457]

Ok... the intro alone deserves a like.

[@earlyriser8998]

the attention to detail is amazing

[@TheRealColBosch]

Damn, the way you said "oh, absolutely." Shivers! But yeah, this is one of my favorite episodes and I'm glad you reuploaded it.

[@1970bosshemi]

I’m convinced Marks voice and mannerisms is what a gunsmith is supposed to sound like.

[@SomeGuyInSandy]

Only the good ones.

[@---bs8dp]

I love Mark's ultimate dad look with the new balance shoes and socks pulled up to his knees

[@GrizzAxxemann]

Can't forget the Dayglo Pink laces!

[@ncb2734]

Gobsmacked. You have out done yourself on this one Mark....... Truly amazing

[@TomXPorter]

I salute you, Sir!! Gunsmithing and machining of another order, plus an acronym from the past I have never heard committed to film: “RCH”

[@stuartdesrosier209]

My dude. Your understanding of engineering is duly awed and appreciated

[@melchung1566]

Mark, I really learned something ! Using a backwards drill bit as a mandrel to prevent collapse of the collar AND not having the small part falling under the lathe! Thanks for the video!

[@kennethmackintosh4690]

We should all be lucky enough to find someone who wants to get their hands on us the way Mark wants to get his hands on that Pederson device.

[@thelastjohnwayne]

Two of my favorite KZbin Heroes .....Mark and Othias

[@WarmasterDeath]

its probably nowhere near as much of a deal as it seems, but I'm always amazed when i see tradespeople who've been trained in imperial/non metric talking about such small measurements, my brain'd be burning out trying to figure out the fractions, then again, maybe Millimetres can give you guys similar issues to start with. in any case, always awesome to get see cool machining at work to get complex mechanisms to function! cheers!

[@stemc83]

A lot of the time I haven't a clue what you are talking about, but I could listen to you talk all day.

[@philllax1719]

That mill reaches a frequency i didn't know my headphones could reproduce. I wish they couldn't

[@cbroz7492]

Like nails in a chalkboard...although there's at least one...mebbe two, generation(s) that hasta Google "chalkboard"...

[@mannys9130]

I didn't see a mill being used in this video. 🤔

[@joetaylor486]

I guess you particularly appreciated this job going across your bench? Watching you machine, I can imagine a thousand machinists cringeing, but the job gets done, and I think to myself, "this Novak fella is a sneaky *expletive deleted* and he gets a beautiful job done, ugly fashion". Outstanding!

[@rogerwaters413]

Wow! That’s real talent. You need to write book, sir. Not enough hours in the day for your genius.

[@chrislawson3418]

Is this a redo of the previous Pedersen video? Either way more Anvil and Mark is always good

[@wierdalien1]

It is

[@marknovak8255]

We are filming 097 and 098 now, this is 022 by request

[@walkingcontradiction223]

Yeah, a lil confuificated myself.

[@chickenfishhybrid44]

I was confused as well

[@TheWoobie22]

RCH, I haven’t heard that since my Navy days. Well done!

[@geegaw14]

LOL. I wonder how many people caught it.

[@rushedandlost]

I learn so much from each of your videos. They are very entertaining, I even like the music in the intro , and during some of the videos. I have become much more tolerant of men and women, who charge more than Bubba, down at the gun store, or car repair shop, or motorcycle shop, who give superior service , and always seem to get it "fixed right" the first time. I know now education ,and experience are a very valuable commodity . Keep up the Good work. Thank You.

[@pablowentscobar]

Possibly the most educational channel on YT. Mark is a brilliant man. It's a shame YT is trying to suppress gun channels while promoting Cardi B WAP. Remember, America was built on the back of firearms and the firearm industry, not Cardi B's WAP.

[@richardslaubaugh2368]

Holy cow what an engineering nightmare but for something that is over a 100 years old it cool. Mark another great job and very awesome episode. Glad to have your expertise continue to keep the mil surps going!

[@PaletoB]

Man I've been trying to fix my old rifle for years now, I get it to work but next time it comes out of the safe there's always something not functioning. Mad respect you took on this job 😅

[@proCaylak]

The intro has lower framerate than the older uploads, but I still appreciate those re-uploads.

[@nvmapompilivs7635]

wonderful episode on a wonderful peice, thanks Mark and everyone else that helped

[@Whitpusmc]

Darn it I’m still waiting for the acraglass setting up video!

[@prebaned]

I don't know what I liked more, the socks or pocket protector. Nice video.

[@josephrcase]

I'm a simple man, I see a Mark Novak video I click :D

[@TheKAWYG]

Amen 🙏

[@giuseppe4909]

Errrrrrrrrch.....I just put everything on hold to watch this episode .....Awesome.

[@williewilliams6571]

Thank you. I NEVER thought I'd ever get to see one of these, let alone getting to see one fired.

[@paulbeck6410]

I had about 900 rounds for the Pederson Device and in a moment of stupidity traded them off. A friend who worked at the Rock Island Arsenal thought that there were probably blueprints still there for it. Wish he could have found them and made copies. The 1968 22nd edition of Gun Digest has an article on the device with a list of existing units including one for the Enfield and another for the Mosin Nagant.

[@Nyllsor]

So glad to have found this channel! What a gem of good content! :)

[@TendoyD]

Fun to watch Mark truly engaged in a project!

[@MrBadgas]

Having too much fun at the lathe again I see Mark. And with the intro. Love it.

[@bengland6969]

Bravo, I anticipate anxiously, waiting for more videos from you Mr. Novak love the time and work put into everything truly rare craftsmanship.

[@toiyabe_effect]

Holy crap, how many of these are there in the wild, maybe fewer than ten? Read a lot about the Pedersen device over the years but thank you for allowing us to actually see one in operation for the first time. BTW, should that plunger you turned be heat treated?

[@DirtyRobot]

Best not to harden it as it is a consumable in the scheme of things. Easier to make a new one then have to get inside and repair the face of that tube.

[@chickenfishhybrid44]

@@DirtyRobot absolutely

[@ScottKenny1978]

There's not more than a couple hundred that survived the destruction. I'd love to get a reproduction, if I find a complete M1903 Mk1. I expect that it'd cost me at least $5k to get made, though.

[@DirtyRobot]

@@ScottKenny1978 Bruno is CAD'ing it apparently. you might be able to buy the file and get it CNC'd

[@ScottKenny1978]

@@DirtyRobot while I think that was for the animation on the C&Rsenal video on the Pedersen Device, I will definitely chase them down to see about getting one made if/when I find a complete M1903Mk1!

[@endutubecensorship]

*Always* a pleasure, thanks Mark and crew

[@skip6557]

Awesome work! Thank you for preserving the history!!!!

[@stevenabshire]

I am pretty sure your man card has more holes in it than Bonnie and Clyde.

[@Billio68]

My dead great aunt was a monster please don’t use her as an example, many innocent every day people died at her evil hands. Like all of today’s mass murderers their names should live in infamy; an be not spoken to die in memories and remain as a dark spot in history. They should definitely not be used or glorified as a poor metaphor example for such a skilled craftsmen as Mr Novak’s man card. Thank you

[@skepticalbadger]

@@Billio68 He's not comparing Mark to them, he's comparing the number of 'holes'. If anything, it celebrates the fact that they were shot dead.

[@Chartruse5]

The 'Oh, absolutely," in the intro was truly villainous. You have a future in voice acting my friend.

[@828enigma6]

Love watching a skilled craftsman at work. Like watching Michaelangelo painting the Monalisa.

[@donmurrin5269]

Mark. Thank you. Splendid show case . Talent and class personified. I hope you've found time to instruct some apprentices. Not only in knowledgeable techniques. But also humorous demonstration. You are a class act. As are your supporting partners in prime (artisianship).

[@marknovak8255]

I've had the privilege of 14 apprentices.

[@chriscain308_MF]

@@marknovak8255 I'd move and whatever else I need to. To learn from you. Always wanted to be a gun smith but have no clue where to start.

[@michelguevara151]

i've been interested in seeing this fired since Ian at forgotten weapons covered it, thank you for the upload!

[@ghostgunsgeark.l.4439]

Outstanding Job Mark! Purely amazing how the right way to do things and the end results comes together. Those trained RATS can be issues a great deal of the Time. Thank you sir.

[@figbat6363]

How do you only have 73k subs? I love your videos.i very much admire the knowledge you have for antique arms and armory.

[@tomislavkefecek4443]

Great episode, loved seeing the lathe going. Brilliant!

[@josephcormier5974]

Cool I get to see something new all the time with you thank you

[@ditzydoo4378]

hmmm, I have my grandfathers all original Springfield 1903 Mark-I made in 1918 which still has all the original trigger components for the Pederson device... Sooooo Othais, any thoughts to Mark maybe whipping up a couple more improved reproduction of said Pederson devise??? ^~^

[@g.55centaurosimp18]

Commend for engagement, your channel and C&Rsenal’s content shows such beautiful dedication and passion. I wish I wasn’t in destitute so I could support both of you guys.

[@sdunn5643]

Amazing job on this problem working with 2 thou clearance to either side and a finicky spring od/id. Great episode. :D

[@MortRotu]

Been waiting for the fun n games you must have had with this since the primer episode on it. Well worth the wait =)

[@steveshoemaker6347]

l got a look at one of these back in 1967 l think.....Thanks my friend...Excellent....!

[@jeffhoward9186]

I just love the beginning of the video. Just awesome.

[@gerarddecosta1738]

I really appreciate and look forward to your videos. "Job well done!"

[@inconel7185]

There's a major thunderstorm outside, I've got a bunch of metal bits to make tools to make things with, and I'm listening to a bloke repair a century old device. Lovely.

[@mahobgood30]

I love the sound when shooting

[@jeyendeoso]

Oh hey its that Sasquatch from Ian's video

[@williamhart4896]

Mark Novak a new upload ok with me I'm just doing the laundry so I've got some time to kill and I've always wondered about that device thanks for your taking us along with you down that rabbit hole .

[@Lomi311]

1st time viewer. The sound the lathe makes shaving that metal is at once both terrible and oh so satisfying.

[@somebodyelse5820]

I’ve seen Russian security cam footage of a man getting spun to death my an industrial sized lathe. I can never look at them the same way again.

[@cameronmccreary7697]

This is one of those devices where you really need two or three of them to compare one against the other when, you go to make parts. I also noticed that at 16:28 the hacksaw blade slides off the top of the piece. I quit using hacksaws for that purpose and just use cut off tools.

[@kenibnanak5554]

The problem is that when you make parts for guns discontinued over 100 years ago, finding any parts to compare with is a total challenge. Let us note he didn't even have one original in hand and is working off someone else's measurements of a part they happen to have. This is a common problem with a lot of late 19th, and early 20th century guns and sometimes you never do locate someone with a part to compare to and have to just try different shapes and measurements until you luck on something that works.

[@StonyRC]

Part-Artist ... Part-Engineer ... Part-Warlock ... Mark Novak. Poetry in motion.

[@ralphmnoonan]

That moment when art and engineering meet, usually beautiful but rarely useful, always interesting though, cheers for sharing this.

[@the308er]

I'm disappointed there wasn't a "watch acroglass set" video for april fools yesterday

[@John1911]

The international man-card congress approves this video. Congratulations. Regards, Marky

[@floydoroid]

this video is invaluable! thank you for taking the time to do this. my suggestion for future videos would be to display a shop drawing of the piece of metal you are making somewhere on the screen, while using the lathe, etc. Otherwise 10/10 informative video :)

[@randymagnum143]

We have a #5 Warner and Swasey turret lathe. It make jobs like these a snap. And you could set it up to make thousands of them, for that huge unserved Pederson repair parts market! 😉

[@outspokengenius]

I ran a Warner Swasey 2A, 3A, and 4A for 7.5 years making bronze bushings, bearings, and washers. We also had a #5 but I think I only ran it maybe once or twice after the previous operator retired. I was trained on the 2A with extended bed, then went to the 4A as my main machine, got laid off after 2 years. Then 60 days later I got called back and ran the 2A with extended bed for the remaining time I was there. The 2A's and 3A were in very good condition. The 4A was pretty well shot it was purchased from a Texas oil field that used it for hobbing pipe, they didn't even have the turret and turret apron on it. It ended up at a machinery dealer in Cleveland who put a metric turret on it. My employer and his purchasing agent were not skilled in assessing machines and bought it anyway. So no matter what you did the O.D. and I.D. always ran at different feed rates due to the Imperial gearing in the the one apron and the metric gearing in the other. Those power chuck wrenches sure were nice though.

[@tricky_vic1840]

I didn’t know you were in Charleston! Gotta love it there, so much history and it’s beautiful.

[@FrednDeeDee]

The US Army Motor Pool all of which were German except for one 1st Lt who always reminded me that he was a college trained shrink at Oberammergau, would fabricate many Teletype parts for me and the fee was a carton of Winstons ($1.25 my cost) They could fabricate a new TTY part from scratch faster than I could order and receive parts from 4th Signal Battalion Army Supply. I bought a 59 VW from the motor pool for 2 cartons of Winstons and 2 half gallons of Jim Beam Oh, and a few jars of peanut butter. I moved to another Base where the motor pool was great at washing a vehicle could replace a bad vehicle part with a new part and that's about it. I sorely missed not being around the best fabricators in the world any longer.

[@danielbradt6848]

Hello Mark my name is Dan I'm a recent subscriber to your Channel and I enjoy watching yours and Bruno's videos they are a big help especially taking the old finish off and putting a new finish on I have a Lee-Enfield number 4 Mark 1 which I plan on scraping the old finish off and putting my new finish on thank you again for the tips and I appreciate your videos

[@Eulemunin]

Someone learned what coining is. Ouch cleaning up the interior shoulder would be nearly impossible. You have a gentle touch with that lathe.

[@randomidiot8142]

Had a couple bad experiences running carbide inserts and trying to skim off a hair. Running hard and heavy on material removal looked fantastic and then the last .010" skim absolutely destroyed it. The worst part was the owner, the foreman, and the shop lead scratching their heads over what was going on. My input wasn't requested so I didn't bother saying anything about how to fix it. Skimming with high speed steel is much easier so I haven't bothered with carbide for my personal stuff.

[@Sven-_Trials]

Never judge an artist by his tools or his methods. The proof is in the pudding.

[@sidekickbob7227]

Yes, but my heart broke when he was marking with the caliper on a running lathe. Hopefully, that caliper was designated for rough work, and that he keeps another one for accurate measurements.

[@john-paulsilke893]

@@sidekickbob7227 if you own a calliper you probably an four or five of them. I love my high end Mitutoyo but my Ali Express tools get way more use and I won’t cry if I drop them on the ground.

[@sidekickbob7227]

@@john-paulsilke893 Yeah, I always buy the upper middel quality ones (mitutoyo?), and degrade them after they get used. I keep one for accuracy, one for daily use, and one rough for marking. But I would never marked a piece in the lathe, while it was running. That's just abuse.

[@krunchie101]

Or his shoes.

[@rickholmwood2000]

Plz don't ever stop doing what you do. Stumbled onto your channel (DUFFEL CUT) and that was it. You are the coolest black Smith in the universe sir

[@marknovak8255]

Thanks, a lot

[@rickholmwood2000]

@@marknovak8255 correction, gunsmith

[@dbaider9467]

Why don't you use the tail of the calipers to measure depth off the headstock of the lathe?

[@matthewmorales8184]

Mark you are the absolute man!!

[@tomhman6441]

This is good stuff. I machined some tiny parts and it’s not easy.

[@alfredgallo4639]

Mark, an amazing video and you are the machinist daddy-O!!👍👍

[@FishyBoi1337]

Pederson device!!! God, I wish I didn't have to take someone to work right now.

[@notchagrandpa8875]

Let them call in late

[@randymagnum143]

Beats the hell outa taken yourself to work though, huh?

[@FishyBoi1337]

@@randymagnum143 It sure as hell does lmao

[@stephenknutson1343]

I always wanted to know how one of those worked; thanks for a great video.

[@craighearn747]

By the way, love the intro. You too are a classic.

[@marknovak8255]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/g2eWaH6merVklac&ab_channel=C%26Rsenal minute 32 is a full firing sequence on C and R senal. I believe the AEF armorers would have been able to set these up to run given the chance. The part about switching back and forth between rifle and PCC on the fly would not. I think dedicated, worn out 03s would have been cut down to carbine length, and turned into purpose converted weapons. Kind of like the M1 carbine............?

[@paulbeck6410]

I believe that they had it working. My source (1968 22nd edition of Gun Digest) says that 65,000 units were manufactured but all except a handful were destroyed. It also lists known units, complete units and partials. Also Enfield and Mosin-Nagant units

[@blackpowderhunt3r-661]

Mark has inspired me to become a gunsmith. I’m working on getting there someday

[@Paladin1873]

"Mics lie." Truer words were never spoken.

[@TheDaverob123]

Damn I was all hyped for the Acraglas Curing footage. I guess Pedersen device video will be ok then.

[@jamessell4490]

Sweet! Love these oddball rabbit holes!

[@davefellhoelter1343]

Got TWO 47 or 48 MFD caps in my stock? get out of jail cards, or rabbits in my hat? handy for STP's on gas stations, but now they are clutter as I retired. I LOVE IT!! This is Artistry, Engineering, and just good old-fashioned Determination with an Inquiring Mind!

[@nobodynoone2500]

used to be a common value in tube-era electronics

[@williamjones2970]

Parting tool? Yeah, sure I got a hacksaw.

[@brianfoster4434]

OMG.... that was a great intro!

[@astridvallati4762]

Now with .30 Super Comp, cases can be trimmed to Pedersen Lenght, and loaded appropriately. On thing, I appreciate your skill with a big lathe but a good quality mini ( German, Italian or Taiwanese, would make the small parts jobs a lot easier. I use a large AL1000D ( 3 phase- .415Vac, 39,37 inches between centres), a Hercus ARL ( Aussie clone of SouthBend) long bed, and a AL250G, semi mini, for small parts and cartridge Case work. DocAV AVBTechServices Australia

[@pscwplb]

103 years ago, this video would have been treason.

[@Tunkkis]

Leaking classified info?

[@ScottKenny1978]

@@Tunkkis yup. Not treason, though. Treason has a very, *very* limited definition in US law.

[@MortRotu]

@@ScottKenny1978 is 'supplying classified/secret weapons information to enemies of the state' not covered by it?

[@ScottKenny1978]

@@MortRotu Has to be in a time of war. Otherwise, there are _officially_ no enemies. The Constitution is *very* specific about Treason.

[@MortRotu]

@@ScottKenny1978 interesting, so how did that apply to leaking info to the USSR?

[@adamsmyth584]

Oh thats interesting indeed. Well done. Ive a Mk1 myself. Excellent