Apache Extinction | The Secret War to EXTERMINATE the Last Free Bronco Apache

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In 1927, A father’s son and wife are victims of a raid from the last of the free Apache. His relentless quest for revenge challenges their need to survive as the true motives of both groups are revealed.
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Full Description:
The 1920s were a tumultuous period where the remnants of the Apache tribe, known as the Broncos, still roamed free in the Sierra Madre Mountains in Mexico. They were the survivors who refused to succumb to reservation life after the legendary Geronimo's surrender in 1886. In this episode, we unravel the harrowing tale of Francisco Fimbres, a father, whose world is shattered when his beloved son and wife fall victim to a brutal raid by the elusive Broncos.
The heart-wrenching loss that pushes Fimbres over the edge. Consumed by grief and anger, he embarked on a relentless quest for vengeance, vowing to track down every last member of the free Apache tribe responsible for the devastating assault.
Amidst the unforgiving social conditions of the time, where both Mexicans and Apache struggle to survive in poverty and subsistence, the lines between right and wrong blur as the father's thirst for revenge and the Broncos' fight for survival converge in a collision course that could only end in tragedy.
As the father's pursuit intensifies, he finds an unexpected ally in a local girl, who has a unique connection to the elusive Broncos. She alone might be the only one who truly understands both worlds and is the key to the conflict. Her existence adds layers of complexity to an already tangled tale of vendetta and betrayal.
If it was ever possible for the Broncos and Mexicans to reach an understanding and live together we will never know. The results of this blood feud ensure that this is not that kind of story.
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Below are a list of the Resources used for this episode:
The Apache Diaries: A Father-Son Journey by Grenville Goodwin & Neil Goodwin (Book)
Flagler, Edward K. (2006): "After Geronimo: The Rough Apaches of Mexico." Spanish Journal of American Anthropology . Vol. 36, p. 119-128.
core.ac.uk/dow...
The Last Indian War Happened in the 1930s
historybanter....
Mexicans Recall Last Apaches Living In Sierra by Paul Salopek
archive.seattl...
THE PARTICULAR WAR OF FRANCISCO FIMBRES AGAINST THE APACHES
reporteroscom.b...
Últimos "Apaches" en Nácori Chico (Last "Apaches" in Nácori Chico)
issuu.com/sono...
Western Apache Raiding and Warfare by Grenville Goodwin (Book)
When Revolutionary Mexico Hunted the Indians
www.quenotelac...

[@datesanddeadguys]

Get an exclusive @surfshark deal! Enter promo code DATESANDDEADGUYS for an extra 3 months free at surfshark.deals/datesanddeadguys

[@Mocaknight]

Hey do a video on Chieft Joseph. There's a lot of content you can go over with him

[@Vorpal_Wit]

I appreciate that you post your source material, but could also possibly post links to the art sources as well. The art featured in this video was outstanding and I would love to follow up on it. Thanks.

[@datesanddeadguys]

The vast majority of the art for this episode was generated by AI. I, hopefully, will put together a website in the coming weeks to make stuff like that available to folks.

[@johnmatthews4717]

Thieves, kidnappers, murderers and rapists... wonder why everyone wanted them dead.

[@NickolasFigler-hu6tz]

Kiss my Apache ass

[@timfdubois]

You mentioned that children were told not to play in certian areas. Well...my mother grew up in the Arivapa Canyon in Arizona during the lated teens into the 1920s and she was told by her mother to watch out for 'renegade Indians'. This episode rekindled the stories my mother and uncles told me when I was a kid. I had a great uncle in Arizona named Miles Wood. He was friends with Geronimo and Cochise and would cut cattle out for them when their people were hungry. If you have the book 'Bury my Heart at Wounded Knee' by Dee Brown, you will find reference to him when he testified for an Apache to help prove the Apache was innocent of murder. Thanks for the video.

[@arctodussimus6198]

Your great uncle reminds me of the exchange between Ten Bears and Josie Wales in that movie. He must have been a man of great integrity to be a friend of Cochise and Geronimo. It’s true what was said in the movie : “Governments don’t live together, people do.”

[@frenchroast1355]

As a fiction writer who has always wanted to do a western adventure, you are giving me a ton of ideas to work with. Very well done.

[@datesanddeadguys]

Western history is so interesting. Happy to give you some ideas. Resources are in the description if you need any sources.

[@frenchroast1355]

Thank you. I will definitely be tapping those.

[@StrengthOfSamson45]

Can I be your star cowboy?

[@elmochomo8218]

Mexico will always be the Wild West

[@thalmoragent9344]

​@frenchroast1355 Oh man, you have any small scripts or chapters available to read? Or rather, any sort of general plot of your story?

[@michaelgawerecki9397]

This story has been amazing. Reminds me of that movie last of the dog men.(the Cheyenne Dog Soldiers) When Sitting Bull went to Canada for a few years,what do you think of the possibility of some of the Lakota or Cheyenne or Arapaho doing something similar in the Canadian Rockies?

[@stanpierce4724]

Great channel, I've enjoyed every video I've watched. I've got to say you're a dead ringer for one of the guys that tried to kill superman in the original superman movie.

[@Outlier999]

Remember that the Apache were so belligerent and ruthless, even other Native American tribes like the Navajo, Yaqui, and Comanche hated them and fought them. Geronimo was no more a hero than George Custer was. Both men have been unduly glorified by Hollywood at different times.

[@flukeman022]

Fimbres and his men could've saved his son when they attacked Apache's camp killing the two women and Juan. Because they returned and buried the bodies, if only they got into position and waited.😢

[@calvanoni5443]

Ty

[@EA-hs9xp]

your channel is underrated. You will be at 1million subscribers in no time. keep it up !

[@datesanddeadguys]

I appreciate it. Thanks for watching!

[@FrankLooez-el6nv]

That's right it's the Best documentary about apache Nation people that's a lots of stories of Apache presence. In Juarez and El Paso Texas during the arrival of the Spaniards when the Baptisted with the name of El Paso de El Norte they used to have in control The Franciscan and Spaniards presidios. The name of the first Franciscans and Spaniards enclaves . Apache Nation are very historical people the use to have in check the mule rich carriers to Santa Fe new Mexico major trade in the Camino real from Mexico of goods of course apache raid those Wagons

[@jumex8267]

I was fortunate enough to have been born and raised in Chihuahua. South of Chihuahua city. We have a large population of Raramuri there. I even knew some. As an amateur historian, I believe the Apache blended with the Raramuri (Tarahumara) who shared a very close civilization with the Apache. Genetically very similar if not identical. Language from what I know so close that they can understand each other. The Raramuri “escaped” civilization by going into the Copper Canyons (yes, there’s many) it would not be far fetched to believe a large number of Apache moved in with their “cousins” and are still there today. One interesting note; the Raramuri to this day dislike “Mexicans”, they will tell it to your face. I forget the word now that I’m older, but they are not shy about it 😂. Now, I live in AZ where there are tons of Apache. They still dislike Mexicans to this day. I have personally met some with the last name “Lopez”. They have changed it to “Lopes” and pronounce it “Lopes” as in Antelopes. They also get offended if you confuse them with Mexicans. 😮

[@datesanddeadguys]

Goodwin’s book mentions the Tarahumara as an option as well but didn’t have any anecdotes that I recall. This is a great comment. Thank you.

[@AmericanRefugee212]

I wonder when the mainstream society in Mexico started to separate themselves from their Indian heritage, being at least Mestizos or more. Perhaps it was cause of the racial caste system from the Spanish Colonial era where being associated with Native was looked down upon. By the 1800s they seem to have considered themselves “just Mexicans”while they were having their own wars against wild tribes that had similar physical appearance to them.

[@FrankLooez-el6nv]

In deed raramuri trahuamara call Mexican chabochis Despectivly. They don't travel or live among Mexican like the apache Spirit. I love them and they like me I claim part yaki from my great grand father. Apache way ifiving isn't not bae up on material world they live in peace with mother earth. They're very mistic.and don't speak To much with Mexicans don't trust them. The take their land from them in the high sierras . Now recently the kill father and son activists. For speaking up the their behalf . Now with the criminal Sinaloa cartels presence the struggling continue.

[@redd5393]

yo, apache and rarámuri are zero percent simliar. they're from completely different languages families, they have zero relation and apache wasn't even spoken in mexico until several hundred years ago.

[@gfunk2036]

Viva Mexico 🇲🇽

[@edwardlangdon9256]

Wow, you had promised that you would do this research on the broncos and present the story. Oh boy, you did not disappoint. I am absolutely stunned and amazed by this story. A story that few today know. Thank you so much for doing this and look forward to your next story. Well done.

[@UlookinMe]

As a army vet and dad, dude made the right choice. He could guarantee saving one kid versus almost assuredly losing all. Especially alone and lightly armed, you are supposed to have a 3-1 numbers advantage to assault or counter assault a enemy position. It’s a absolutely terrible choice to make but he made the right one.

[@datesanddeadguys]

This is a great thought out response. It must have destroyed him.

[@ClyDIley]

Yep, well said

[@RONALD......]

In these modern times we are not allowed to avenge our loved ones, Damn shame too..

[@steakeater4557]

He let his wife die by herself, poor woman, and made his son lose all value as a bargaining chip.

[@UlookinMe]

@@steakeater4557 His wife was more than likely dead or mortally wounded when she got shot off he horse. Once could make an argument for the son part though.

[@albundy-k9x]

geronimo's cousin said in 1958 that there were still broncos in the sierra madre in 1958 . if this is true it is remarkable.

[@joaquinflores3547]

there is still apaches in Mexico till this day specially in Chihuahua

[@albundy-k9x]

@@joaquinflores3547 are you speaking of bronco apaches or modern day apaches

[@joaquinflores3547]

@@albundy-k9x modern day apaches, their a small number but their still some of them around

[@jkoonce4244]

@@joaquinflores3547 mashed potatoes don’t mean gravy original commenter was speaking as to Broncos dipstick

[@albundy-k9x]

his cousin was jason betzinez remarkable in 1958 betzinez has a book I FOUGHT WITH GERONIMO

[@markmarshall8151]

I have lived off and on with the Raramuri, Tarahumara Indians since 2014 in the Serra Madre Occidental mountain range. I spent 3 and a half years in those mountains without returning to the United States. I know those mountains and anything could be living there it is that remote. I will return in March Lord willing and after watching your excellent video I will look for any traces of the Broncos. I will let you know what I find. The Raramuri can run between 50 to 100 miles in a day. If there are any remnants I will find them

[@RogueReplicant]

Those canyons are incredibly rugged, they put Afghanistan to shame. Some parts of Copper Canyon are TWICE AS DEEP AND LONG as the Grand Canyon. The Raramuri are such good runners in that environment that they run down deer. 😮

[@Demac137]

Please ask the Raramuri if they know anything about Apaches joining them long ago.

[@dominikspencer3981]

@markmarshall8151 If you do not mind me asking, what were/have you been doing there in the Sierra Madres living with these folks? I have always wanted to go there, but too scared. I'm in AZ, and would like to communicate with you....

[@ML-dz5ix]

There is a story I heard when I was little about the Apache: A Spaniard road his horse hard for 75 miles until it collapsed. The Spaniard removed his saddle and continued on foot. A Mexican found the horse, got it on its feet, and road it another 50 miles until it collapsed, then continued on foot. A Texan found the horse, got it on its feet, and road it another 40 miles until it collapsed, then continued on foot. An Apache found the horse, and ate it.

[@dchief2924]

Nice story but Apache don’t eat horse meat

[@cryptomnesiac]

Human history is a real clusterfuck 👍

[@datesanddeadguys]

100%

[@wizardking2631]

Yeah, I can see some validity there. 🤓

[@TheHamburgler123]

Awesome video, man! I've been enjoying the heck out of these videos about native tribes. Crazy to think this happened less than 100 years ago! Not a long time by any means.

[@datesanddeadguys]

That is a part of the video I don’t know if I emphasized well enough. This was all less than 100 years ago. World War I already happened. For much of the conflict the Great Depression was going on. Helge Ingstad looked for the Apache the same year my Grandmother was born. It is absolutely crazy to think about the idea that our grandparents may have met people who fought in the Indian Wars. Thanks for the comment.

[@jhonnygesponny]

@@datesanddeadguys When you think about the period when Helge Ingstad launched the expedition and his guides possibly found a recently abandonned camp, imagine that only 2 years later Germany launched the invasion in Poland starting World War 2 !

[@datesanddeadguys]

It’s almost impossible to comprehend. There is a world in the multiverse where the Nazis invaded Mexico and had to fight against Indians.

[@DavidGB215]

Have you done a clip on Cochise? As a kid I read the great book by Elloit Arnold "Blood brother" later the old series Broken Aroow was mad as well as the movie with I believe Jeff Chandler played Cochise, the series was Michael Ansara playing Cochise . As a little boy in the 60s in New Jersey I was so memorized by the story when I turned 18 I traveled to AZ and met Nino Cochise, Chief Cochise's grandson . In Tombstone AZ. One of the greatest moments of my life.

[@AThreat2Democracy]

I have a cousin who has a house in Baja California. He tells me it's like the Wild West down there. Things still haven't changed much.

[@aaronoverton3422]

Hey you do a fabulous job with these stories . Living in Arizona my whole life and with a great grand mother born in 1903 here in Skull Valley , history has always been a major interest . Thank you

[@datesanddeadguys]

Thank you for watching!

[@OmarTheAtheistAziz]

Native Americans: gets land taken, killed off into extinction, no crying on the way out BLM: wE WerE sLavEs, GiVE Us REpAratIoNS

[@rossburney8713]

I found your channel about a month ago. Watched everything. Showed my brother. He did the same. Thank you for bringing these stories to us. Keep kicking ass

[@datesanddeadguys]

I love comments like this. Thanks for watching. I’m happy you and your brother have enjoyed the channel.

[@jullianohirsch8702]

I'm not a father so I can't put myself in that person's shoes with any stake in the game. That said, I don't see him as a coward, he had a daughter to protect, was outnumbered, and may or may not have had a gun. No one can really know what their reaction will be unless they're put into that scenario.

[@gmoney10000]

Being Apache, I enjoy the content of your storytelling. Keep it up!

[@JacobSaip-ev3em]

Apaches will one day settle the score with those kinds of people.

[@JK-pt5kq]

​@JacobSaip-ev3em Haven't we spilt enough blood on both sides? Let's work to bring our people to better lives.

[@JacobSaip-ev3em]

@@JK-pt5kq they tried that until the Mexicans duped them.

[@FrankLooez-el6nv]

Let's put things Right. The real Mexicanos peasants not Rich ranchers the lived in harmony with apache people in Chihuahua but the cruel Mexican government That. Rich despotic ranchers and hacienda Owners . The infamous government rurales Started the war and extermination of Apache natives with medival scalping practices But a repeat myself. The poor mexicanos and modest ranchers trade And get along with apache way before the Spaniards presence It's why a lots apache decendents in Chihuahua . State since the 1600s Practices

[@pierangelobellanova3400]

Hiii hiii hiii🏹✊

[@iainsanders4775]

H'mm, interesting & good research. My grandfather was said to have taken part in campaigns against Apache & Comanche in Arizona & NM as a volunteer civilian with the US Army. But he only arrived in America in 1886, from England, at 17 yrs old - so right on the Geronimo surrender year, but not 'Indian fighting' for a year or two. Research turned up these last few remnants & settled my puzzlement. Ironically my father was born & raised in Durango & did a timber cruise in the Sierra Madre Occidental in 1926-7. No reports of Apache though, p'haps he was just a little too late - luckily ..😄 Quite some Yaqui in that state though. My own sympathies are fairly well with those last free men..

[@NeverPayPig]

"Familia es todo." The line burned into every Mexican childs mind.

[@gunnerhiro394]

They stole it from Fast and Furious.

[@lromo6688]

😄@@gunnerhiro394

[@marksimmons7972]

Family is everything

[@obiwankenobi5769]

That applies to people all across the world, not just one just one specific group

[@mariotorres4271]

So, my great-grandmother on my dad's mom's side is from this region in Mexico. We know she was indigenous, but she had kept a secret of who her family/people group was. She was given to my great-grandfather ( Her older sister husband, a Spanish man) after her sister died giving birth. He needed someone to care for the baby. She was only 13 at the time. She would go on to have four children with my great-grandfather. She told my uncle stories about migrating between the Arizona white mountains and Mexico as a child. She officially immigrated to the United States in 1916 and lived in the Southwest for a short time. They settled in California in the 1920s and worked as farm workers. The whole time, she kept the secret of her family origins. I think my Grandfather (My dad's dad) knew she was Apache. He could be a difficult man if he thought you were beneath him. He would call her a "dirty Apache" in a close family setting. I met my great-grandmother in 1990 when she was 95 years old. I remember her calling me and my brothers the white children. She seemed so old and little scary to my 5-year-old self. She died later that year. She took her secret of where she was from with her. My grandfather and grandmother never spoke of her history as a Hispanic person; it didn't fit their caste system narrative. The more Spanish blood, the better. I think now of her childhood and the lack of it. She would have seen some of these major societal change if she was from that area and Apache. Maybe she was from a family of Apache holdouts. Sadly, our family will never truly know, and we are forever disconnected from the culture of her people.

[@ricardomorales7020]

Kinda of funny my mom had secerat of her own, before passed she called me and my younger sister told us that she indeed was native, she disliked Mexican especially those from south of the board ,something I found confusing as a younger lad

[@chalicecasillas7895]

I'm Apache from Arizona and my mother was born in the 1940s. She's actually told me stories about stuff like this how her grandmother had two sisters that were stolen by Mexicans and possibly sold in Mexico to be wives. She said that when she was in high school her class from the reservation actually took a trip to Mexico and there were some people there in small towns and villages that styled their dresses the same way that we did and could understand what they were saying. She said some of the older women actually started crying when they heard people speaking apache. She said it was possible that these women could have been daughters or granddaughters of the kidnapped women .

[@inquisitorkrieger8171]

Noooo she wasn't. 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

[@wellersonoliveira5334]

I am Brazilian and have native american ancestry (i think my fenotypes shows it already haha) love your videos about native american history and also your narration ❤

[@datesanddeadguys]

Thank you! Happy you have enjoyed it.

[@jessemeanlt1]

My family comes a mountain village in durango on the boarders the state he mentions. There is still a lot indains tribes out there. They are blended and speak multi languages. One indain i get along with competed in a cross country running race and he got 1st place with the next person coming 30 minutes later. And he drinks and smokes!

[@mikelatino8126]

Amazing

[@Demac137]

I natural Diet and exercise make a large portion of health probably the two most important things.

[@dr.davidmiller6682]

There’s a concept called triage which is applied in emergency medicine in the service of maximum good. You focus on saving those who can be saved first, and get to the worse ones later on. It applies in many situations!

[@BubbaZanetti_375]

I have many of the books you displayed I've bought in Flagstaff (passing through). Apache are my favorite tribe to historically research & read & your channel is fantastic. Thank you!

[@datesanddeadguys]

They are absolutely awesome to learn about. There are a few books I haven’t read yet that I would still like to but there is a good chance I am gonna move into the plains for some of the next stories I tell.

[@BubbaZanetti_375]

@@datesanddeadguys looking forward to it!

[@solyluna1778]

I admire your ability to remain totally neutral when telling (and after researching!) all this horror ...

[@datesanddeadguys]

I do my best. This is a story where I definitely don’t think there is a bad actor as much as there are bad circumstances. The perspectives of Fimbres and the Apache can make sense to anyone in their position… I think.

[@SpicyTake]

@@datesanddeadguys The only thing that really bothers me is that they didn't take Lupe back. Maybe the spiraling tragedy could have been avoided and there could have been healing. I wish we could ask them why. These things are lost to history. Thanks for sharing what you know.

[@datesanddeadguys]

This part of the story bugs me too because nothing I have read tells me why. It is just presented as a matter of course. She asked to come back and was essentially banished. Maybe it was for embracing Christianity or maybe there was a part of the story that was lost but I don’t know why that happened to her.

[@steakeater4557]

@@datesanddeadguys Dine interpret Life the way mother nature presents it. The bird already left the nest. I imagine the population wasn't very accepting of her though due to her race, made apparent by still being a medium to her captors, so the tribe threatened her to live life. Sad, but it's for the better unless someone just didn't like her race.

[@dannyventure]

His wife was dead, he surmised he was outnumbered, went for re-enforcements while preseving his own life and that of his daughter. Logical. Live to hunt them down. He came across the Apache path once, no reason to believe he wouldn't ever again.

[@Speenzoidotron]

Most fathers would have probably charged in to save their wife and son. But I think that success rate would be close to zero. He saved his daughter.

[@jannford6916]

'Boogiemen of an untamed wilderness'', makes my neck hairs stand up. Great description. Francisco knew his enemy. He knew he needed support.

[@cdfe3388]

I’m an unashamed history nerd and the West is one of my areas of interest, but also the one about which I know the least. I love your channel, man.

[@datesanddeadguys]

I know the feeling. I fully believe there is too much to know for anyone to be more than a niche expert. It’s awesome. Thank you for watching.

[@cdfe3388]

@@datesanddeadguys I also love that you keep it fair. No romanticism, no white guilt. All sides have reasons for pride and shame.

[@healdiseasenow]

The Apache commented "why would we kill those who raise our horses and cows"

[@andraslibal]

So it took 15 minutes until I understood that the Apache lost a child first. Sorry but in blood feuds it does matter who strikes the first blow.

[@roryhertzog5282]

Great video. I found the fact that the Apache were watching his family very fascinating. Whatever happened to him or his daughter?

[@datesanddeadguys]

I wasn’t able to track that down. There is a book called “They Never Surrendered” about the incident I didn’t read. It cost like $150 because it was a limited print in the 1990s. Maybe that has the answers. The closest I got was that there were some interviews with the people of Nacori Chico in the past few decades and some relatives of his were interviewed talking about how the attack impacted Francisco. But they never said what happened to him.

[@cplmpcocptcl6306]

As a soldier and a Mother I have much respect for clever fighting. Running in to save his Wife and Son would only of gotten all 4 of them killed. People that just run in on emotion are dangerous. Make terrible leaders. Great upload. I had NO idea..

[@datesanddeadguys]

That is the fear. There would be so much guilt for not rushing in but it is just such a high risk. Thanks for watching. Great input.

[@benjaminmorris2312]

Soldier my ass

[@charlesbullghost5491]

The hunkpati Dakota sioux people of fought our own brutal war of 17th - 18th of 1931 at the crow creek sioux Indian reservation of SD. The Buffalo County war or the Great war for the northern part of the reservation! The place actually happened northwest of town stephan along the beautiful Missouri River. In a long narrow valley just below the hilly prairie land country. There's will be another great sioux war, the Cheney rush massacre brutal conflict of a two war during the early days of the great depression of 1931. Our forgotten very sad tragedy an a very horeic warriors victory song charge! The early springtime the American civilians wanted the Dakota sioux Indian people leave their own land of the northern part of reservation! Apiril 17th on the morning the warriors lift for a hunting trip on the other side of the reservation. Leaving their own people of a little over sixty people of their families and young pregnant women watch over the encampment of Cheney rush. Later a large party of over a hundred white civilians came with guns and rifles very unannounced! They seriously wanted to take away the Dakota sioux Indian people's traditional Buffalo hunting grounds and our rich fertile farm lands along the beautiful Missouri River. The American intruders will brutality kill everyone there, the Cheney rush brutal massacre site, the second sand creek massacre of 1864! An spokeable event! The elders were children at the time saw an witness the tragedy unfolded there will hiding a safe distance away! Many years later they told the story well crying and wipt of the tragic brutal hateful torture massacre site! The only massacre in the us history someone tried to cover up the evidence that it never happened there? Later the children want an told everyone on the reservation what happened to their own Dakota sioux Indian people who wrongful murdered there! The warriors return from their hunting trip also heard the very sad tragic story of their own love ones who died there! The American civilians sinful mistake would trigger a great sioux indian war! The very next day over three hundred angered Dakota sioux Indian warriors were coming ready to fight against the American intruders! Iron Nation's kul wicasa oyate Lakota sioux Indian warriors may have assisted in the fierce fighting to! The American civilians we're setting up a camp site along the shores of the beautiful Missouri River. When someone told them they would be facing a huge massive large numbers of warriors coming towards them from a great distance away! The American intruders made the prairie land country the main battlefield scene. The small town of stephan SD were surprised to see the great number of warriors on their horse's riding pass on their great journey to the great battlefield moment scene! The American civilians were also shocked to the large massive numbers to! The battlefield began against the fighting scene! Many White civilians an serveral warriors would lose their lives in the great deadly battlefield scene! Dust would rise up from the horses hooves made a great impressive fighting combat moment scene! After a running battle turned into full bloody retreat for American civilians intruders! Who take any more fierce fighting! The rest of the defeated wounded weakened American intruders escaped or fled back across the reservation border lands! To their own ranches and towns never wanting to take back the hunkpati Dakota sioux people's traditional reservation Buffalo hunting grounds and our rich fertile farm lands along the beautiful Missouri River. The last forgotten tragedy of the 20th and last true victory song for the brave Dakota and Lakota sioux warriors! Our great retribution for the lost poor innocent lives at the brutal Cheney rush massacre site! Many after the wounded knee massacre December 29th 1890. An the great sioux war leaders have crossed of the Buffalo hunting grounds of the blue sky. The Cheney rush massacre victory site is still there today. Half a mile northwest from the town stephan SD along the highway to the capital of Pierre SD. North to the two small rolling hills. The one hill on the left side were the secret mass grave site is still there today. As a great resistance for our native American indigenous people. My historical information for today. Many Dakota people wear their traditional animal skin clothing also the true 🤠 cowboy style clothing duing the time period. The only an the last sioux Indian bloody conflict east of beautiful Missouri River of South Dakota during the 20th century. Very unfortunately this tragic event should have never happened! Theres no memorial site there because of the forgotten fallen Dakota sioux Indian people who died there. Many of fighting brave sioux indian warriors would fight in the great war of world War two! My historical great information for today. Have a great fabulous wonderful day.

[@mustardbiscuits9750]

When push comes to shove, a fathers ultimate responsibility is to his children, not his wife.

[@stevenguevara2184]

It’s hard to believe He would be unarmed. I couldn’t conjure up a scenario where I would enter an area where I might get scalped

[@frankfranko9023]

Take Note 📝 The Mexican Cartels 😮 Have Replace The APACHES😮 ALL OVER MEXICO 🇲🇽

[@paulbrasier372]

I hate when a narrator tells you a story then doubles back and fills in a ton of facts that he withheld. Its just really bad form and dishonest to the audience.

[@ronaldwinfield307]

1st { I don't know what Francisco Fembres should have done in that horrible 1927 situation. He was damned if he did & damned if he didn't. Does anybody really know?} 2nd {You have an incredible knowledge of Apache History. I appreciate you sharing that with us} I knew from Geronimo biographies about the Bronco Apache but knew very little about them. I also know that Indian Wars in Mexico persisted long after they ended in the USA but know very little about them. I did not know 1/4 of the American standing Army was used to track down Geronimo. A lot of Mexican soldiers were also tracking down Geronimo. A question running through my mind is: How many American & Mexican soldiers combined were tracking down 35 men, 8 boys & 101 women? As always I enjoy your videos.

[@datesanddeadguys]

1. That is the exact right answer. There is no good choice. At least a 50% chance he and his daughter died if he rushed in. 2. I forget how many Mexican troops helped out by it was at least a couple thousand. Keep in mind, that was 1886 and the standing army was not nearly the size it grew to in the 20th century. Still a ton of folks. Thank you for watching. I love that people come back to see more.

[@TheEggeater1111]

Love your channel! Have you considered doing the Glanton gang?

[@kalaoahaole]

Wow... the way this Francisco and Geronimo's stories mirror each other perfectly ... i get chicken skin, Kuz!

[@SpicyTake]

Are the paintings AI generated images or hand made? Either way that is a neat way to give visual aids for the story.

[@datesanddeadguys]

There are some that handmade. However, the majority are generated by AI. A bunch of people have reached out about the paintings. I have intended for a while to make a website. When I get that launched I will certainly make them available to folks.

[@brysonbutler8942]

Trust Jesus Christ the SON of GOD!!! Roman’s 10:9 That If thou shalt Confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt Believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead , thou Shalt be Saved .

[@johncorrigan8366]

Wow what a story, the bronco apache I hope they’ve survived. Thanks for sharing

[@astralclub5964]

The “dreams” of the Europeans and Natives were diametrically opposed. One of the “tribes” would win big while the other would be defeated and destroyed. There was NEVER a true chance for both people to live.

[@therighttap6873]

Man had a rough day and coming home and seeing you have a new video up made it 100x better. Best history channel around keep up the amazing work as always much love❤

[@datesanddeadguys]

This truly means a lot to me. You’ll have to let me know if you still feel that way after the video.

[@therighttap6873]

Definitely helped man sure puts things into perspective of how bad some days can get for people lol.

[@DavidGB215]

Agree, love these stories, so well narrated

[@TheTMS726]

Just found this awesome channel. I’m from Australia and find American history so interesting. Keep it up your delivery is phenomenal 👍🏻

[@joebidet2050]

Actually Mexico

[@theminsm3588]

As a mom, I personally think he made the right choice as difficult as it was 😢

[@kekesang619]

Da man made the right choice by listening to his heart but still what is right and wrong Well still trying to be strong For the choice he was going to make

[@jbos5107]

I have heard mentions of these stories but never the full story. It's heartbreaking and you're right that there were no happy endings. I can sympathize with the father. He paid a terrible price but I know that there is nobody I wouldn't put lead into to protect my family.

[@beep.1017]

I’m Native and am in no way trying to be insensitive to this story. But this would make an amazing movie if done by the right people!

[@alistairjamesheaton9155]

Definitely. It will be incredibly dark as a film though.. Maybe something like band of brothers in terms of its style in terms of getting people who can remember talking to children of those broncos turn account what they knew and remembered from conversations with the grandparents and parents.

[@fakereality96]

I'd want a proper film on the Pueblo Revolt of 1680, if done right.

[@arctodussimus6198]

I believe stories such as this deserve to be told. As dark as it is, we will continue to repeat them until people become more respectful and compassionate about other cultures.

[@rodmunch1931]

Great story. I know the Tom Brown survival books are based on knowledge given to him from an Apache Indian I think it was a friends brother, I always wondered about how long they lasted, in reality, outside what they tell us.

[@c.joelummus8880]

Sorry my friend but Tom Brown was a lying phony. He made it all up there was no stalking wolf there was no Rick

[@loganhuebner7288]

There are several stories of one Indian tribe living in the Wapie river valley through 1940. My dad, who is 88 now seen this tribe. I have been to the location he still talks about.

[@nickfodness7321]

My grandfather said when he was a kid there was native that camped out on the creek on our farm and they would send a kid to ask for milk

[@Mountainghost72]

I'm Mescalero, I've met Apaches that came out of Mexico in the last 25 year's, I'm sure there are still some in Mexico, what Americans don't realize, is most dark skinned Mexican are native, Apache can easily walk amongst other natives south of the border

[@Cucurú-c9v]

My blood brother is Apache from Mexico. He grew up all over the North Western states of Mexico. They'd get over the border to attend Sunrise Festivals on the res. In NM. Ha was Bronco. I met Salvadorans who highly resembled him even in height. Poor guy chose a bad path in life, and I don't know what happened to him. I'm Mescalero a long with the only family I knew, my stepdads. Most are well over 6ft. Baby bro was 6 ft. 7 in. Lol the women, beautiful. At least by Apache standards.

[@trickydicky2908]

That tale makes the Hatfield's and McCoy's feud, seem very tame indeed.

[@datesanddeadguys]

Speaking of the Hatfield’s and McCoys. I would like to make that video too. What a story.

[@trickydicky2908]

@datesanddeadguy Yes. Probably a lot of available research data.

[@datesanddeadguys]

I am sure that one has been done before but hopefully I could put a take on it that would make it fun and original for folks.

[@trickydicky2908]

@Datesanddeadguys You make it, and I'll definitely listen to it.

[@datesanddeadguys]

Good to know.

[@onesojourner7514]

I am from Casas Grandes, Chihuahua. My mother is from a village in the Sierra Madre shared by Sonora and Chihuahua. The village is named Ejido Hernandez (Jobales). My mom, now in her mid 70s, tells me of a great aunt she had who was apache. This great aunt, apparently was abandoned by an apache party, as they were attacked. The apache girl was adopted by a family and eventually became my great-great-great aunt.

[@edoliver7990]

Wow, very fascinating!!!

[@vepr1332]

This is a truely fascinating story. Well delivered as always. Hope you are considering the expanded time frame of 30ish minutes, this one cries out for more ! Thanks for the effort you are putting in.

[@datesanddeadguys]

I usually find myself cutting the scripts significantly because I don’t want to make things to long for people. But I would love feedback from folks. Do you want longer videos?

[@poopmaster1911]

​@@datesanddeadguysI do!

[@vepr1332]

There is a true crime tuber that hit the scene about 2 years ago. In 6 months he got around 500,000 subs. He started out around 15/20 minute lengths and then went to 30/40 minutes. He mentioned he had many requests for that time frame. He became a phenome and I haven't checked recently but I believe his subs are in multimillion numbers now. Just saying. But he tells great stories , as you do and I don't want to sound like a broken record but 30ish minutes , in my opinion, is the sweet spot. It's like rushing through sex so your woman doesn't get bored. But if you're doing it right she will beg for more. At least that has been MY experience.

[@Patrick-uu5xg]

I would happily spend a hour filled with details on this. Reminds me of the movie ''The last of the dogmen'' Any way YES mORE VIDEOSE ON THIS SUBJECT PLEASE.@@datesanddeadguys

[@vCLOWNSHOESv]

I don't know if his decision to retreat was the best option or not but I'll say it was because his instincts were better than my guess.

[@cdubsoptional7849]

This whole Fimbres story just doesn't smell right. Fimbres chooses to retreat in the hopes of returning with reinforcements at least two or three times, is constantly confounded in his attempts to recruit said reinforcements, whereas Apache Juan fights to the death to defend his family. The idea that the attack was in retaliation for something Fimbres' father did, and the adopted Apache woman just happens to be the mcguffin... it's all just a little too on the nose. If this story isn't bull feathers, there should be some primary sources providing some amount of corroboration. What Church were they wedded in, are there any records of the children being baptised, are there any payroll records? The whole story just seems so sketchy.

[@NoOne-zm4rb]

I think he saved his daughter, and it was his decision to make.

[@yuritesticoff1141]

Your videos are the only media/content I look forward to in 2023

[@martiforse4764]

You said it perfectly. He had to make a choice nobody would want to make. I have 4 kids. I wouldn’t like to make a choice like that. He made this choice and I won’t judge it.

[@Ese361]

Most of the bronco apaches assimilated into mexican society..In that part of mexico you couldnt really tell the difference between a mexican and apache because they for the most part looked the same bro

[@georgeparrault9945]

6:00 Knowing His Wife was already Stabbed Multiple Times, and Possibly His Son. Thinking Wife most likely already Dead, and His son couldn’t serve an attack like that, If they were meaning to Kill Him ? Get Daughter to safety, Get Help, Getting to Wife, and Son for possible Help ? If son is Alive Rescue Son.

[@crusader.survivor]

What if the danger still exists, from other tribes? As of yet, so many millions of Americans and Canadians go missing to never be seen again in the forests, mountains, savannahs, wherever there is no civilization. So many attribute the missing to cryptids and wildlife! Sometimes, I don't think so! I'm usually deep in the bush, hunting, fishing, and just hanging around! I've never seen any cryptids nor have I ever been in danger of being eaten! (I make quite a bit of noise when hiking just to alert bears or whatever of my presence! Usually bears kill and eat walking humans because they were surprised!) Funny story of when I was 16 (early 1990's): Got separated from a survival course training group and ended up being lost dead center of the middle of nowhere in British Columbia, without any gear, as the pack leader wanted to carry all the equipment. I just began learning survival skills, so going about surviving without tools was so difficult! Couldn't catch game (unarmed, so had to make improvised weapons)! Had a hard time trying to make a fire with sticks and cordage, so ended up cold and hungry! All I could do was eat worms and other whatnots raw! On the 3rd night of being lost, I managed to find a Husky (gas station) like a beacon of hope, shining brightly in the night sky! Fortunately I had my wallet because that was where I drew the line to give to the leader, and went inside the gas station with hyped anticipation! While I began happily collecting snacks and drinks, a Native guy suddenly asked me, "What were you doing in the bush?" I was surprised he saw me as I assumed I was the only human in that forest! I asked him what he meant and then he proceeded to tell me that he followed me, watching me all throughout those 3 days and 3 nights. When I questioned why he didn't help me when I was obviously lost and obviously young looking and obviously hungry and destitute, he said, "because you didn't have anything I want" WTF

[@ninjaboy7362]

Love your videos! I've learned so much. You are awesome at telling the stories. Thanks for making these!

[@datesanddeadguys]

Thank you for watching. I really appreciate that people enjoy them.

[@raygunn737]

I've heard that they could be in the Mystery Mountains of Arizona.

[@carlosmelendez2101]

This history will make an awesome movie!!

[@DirtRoadAutoRepair]

I’ve been waiting for this episode. Worth the wait. Love this channel!

[@alextovar8402]

Idk what you got against Mexicans but the Apache are Mexican..🪂 -Geranimo

[@GodEmperorEnjoyer]

“I have killed many Mexicans; I do not know how many, for frequently I did not count them. Some of them were not worth counting. It has been a long time since then, but still I have no love for the Mexicans. With me they were always treacherous and malicious.” -Geranimo

[@johndelgado9181]

This would be an INSANE MOVIE YALL, wow what a story bro!!!! I took Mexican history in university and never heard of this story. I’m sure they can’t make a movie bc it would be controversial since it is of hunting and killing Apache.

[@elliemcfadden5511]

I really do enjoy your posts. You are easy to follow and understand. You have taught me a lot. I am 72 years old so I am proof that you are never to old to learn something new.

[@rickershomesteadahobbyfarm3291]

It’s crazy to think that only 1 or 2 generations separate most people from these events.

[@BillyBoucher-ql3pw]

How goofy of a statement. More like 3 or 4 generations

[@daveramirez3056]

My grandma told me these legends she was raised on the reservation and she told us into the 50’s and I a way a born in the 1970’s they know the underground tunnels that move thru the mountains in relation. To this there were stories of Geronimo moving from Arizona to New Mexico thru these tunnels so you can safely assume there might be a few left cause in Apache junction Arizona they will find headless bodies etc! While there hiking or searching for gold when you go to far into the mountains. I’m just crazy maybe I misunderstood!!

[@cottonpatch2000]

Fascinating script for a film if our producers and directors would finally get out of the realm of superheroes.

[@1963921]

New subscriber here all the way from Australia. Very good content with a lot of pieces of information but above all excellent narrative skills. Can I also ask you about the images you used for this video? Who is the painter or illustrator? I really like them.

[@datesanddeadguys]

Most of the Art is AI generated. I use references like Frederick Remington a lot for it but some of the creations are really cool. I have a new video coming out today on Mangas Coloradas. I’m excited about what people think of the art for that one.

[@nineteeneightyfour3680]

I live close to the Oklahoma town called Apache. Not many full bloods left. There are several various Indian tribes still living in the area.

[@daveweiss5647]

Can't fault him for the decisions he made. It was probably the correct one. But thinking about it, i think I mist likely woukd have made the incorrect one and tried to get mh son at the time, most likely getting myself killed. But I am 100% sure I could jot live with myself leaving my son to raiders.

[@dougdillon1271]

Really enjoy your videos. I love history, and your videos have information I sometimes haven't heard. Keep up the outstanding work!

[@datesanddeadguys]

Thank you for watching!

[@aaronmoreno8918]

This was a sad but amazing story. This reminds me of my Grandmother’s story. You see my Grandmother is of Tarahumara Indian descent and she was born in the Chihuahuan mountains or the Sierra Madres as they are called. They are also called the sierras Tarahumara’s too. The sierra madres are Mexico’s Grand Canyon and it is four times bigger than the Grand Canyon in the USA. She said her grandparents would tell her to watch out for Apaches. They heard stories of Apaches still running wild in Sierras! Because the Tarahumaras and Apaches are enemies. She said that some mixing happened between some groups of Tarahumaras and Apaches and other Mexican tribes, she said she wouldn’t be surprised if we had that too. I recently did an Ancestry DNA 🧬 test, and it shows I am 53% Indigenous Native American from Mexico and the US Southwest. It had it highlighted in the Mexican States of Chihuahua, Sonora, Durango and Zacatecas. The US States of Texas, New Mexico and Arizona 🏜️.

[@rick91443]

Great channel. Said before, living so far away, it's great to watch this channel about western history....cheers...rr Normandy, France

[@vr112]

Well told sir!

[@Cucurú-c9v]

If you meet an Apache he may tell you he is Apache. Most never tell anyone they are Bronco. Many put Apaches down for taking children as captives. They did this to ensure the Indé would survive. The Indé lacked the notion of "Race", and were criticized by both Indians and Europeans. So you're either born Apache or become Apache. Because of the racial options taught to the Indé the Indé have lost their beliefs of there is only one race, the human race. Try the Mescalero story of creation. Look at the Indian percentage of Indians in the cities of NM and TX. The percentage of Indians living in these cities are not much over 2 percent. Most have Spanish names, are married to Mexicans or Spaniards, are registered as Mexicans. Hiding out in plain sight.

[@lynndowless5152]

Maybe in Mexico. I've spent four years or more in Latin America. The natives there still live their heritage lifestyles. There could be entire wilderness covens of natives and gringos who have skipped out of mainstream society and been living in seclusion for decades. I can fully comprehend the motivation. Something is causing all of these people to disappear in the US national parks, especially in Alaska. To hear native claims about elves, and mysterious beings sound like a cover story of some kind to me. Law enforcement really should investigate these disappearances from this angle in perspective.

[@FrankyBlack]

love your stories bro! excellent delivery and mannnn..whaf a tough decision to make..i think he did the right thing by 100 percent saving his daughter... but poor guy man.... great show bro!!

[@datesanddeadguys]

What a horrible choice. It could be that Fimbres did all that he could but there is no way that doesn’t haunt him the rest of his life.

[@FrankyBlack]

@@datesanddeadguys yeah man.. brutal..those were some rough times all around...and yeah man .. you would second guess yourself and beat urself up over it for the rest of ur life for sure. crazy shit man.

[@datesanddeadguys]

I am excited to read the perspectives of commenters who think he should have rushed in. It is I think the harder position to justify but definitely the one people would want to do.

[@FrankyBlack]

@@datesanddeadguys yeah for sure... i thought about that.. and as awful as it would be to think about.. my wife is most certainly dead.. i saw her go down.. then it comes down to my daughters life and mine..or my sons..OR we all.get killed... and i hate to say it but i thinj i would have to protect my daughter over my son.. given that much more awful things would be done to my dauggter than my son... ahhhhh its horrible.. your mind would be racing with all these thoughts a million miles an hour.... very sad position for a family man to be put in.. suprising his wife wouldnt also be armed.. but my guess is she probably was... and just didnt havd a chance to pull her gun.. the natives are too skilled af ambush.

[@datesanddeadguys]

One of the accounts say that she had Francisco’s rifle packed on the saddle of her horse, which is why he was unarmed. Most don’t bring up her being armed and suggest that just Francisco was. Truth is we just don’t know. But I think you get it and are going through why I really wanted to ask this question. It stuck with me for a long time. A couple days. Just nothing but bad choices.

[@rogergriffin9893]

I am living in Tucson with a woman whose grandparents came out of the Sierra Madres in the 1930s. They claimed Chiricahua descent. In fact at least one of them from Cochise. They spoke Spanish but eventually learned a little English. They talked about the Chiricahua inside the family but not outside. I believe they chose to come to Tucson because they thought it would be easier to blend in by pretending to be Mexican. I don't think they wanted anything to do with the reservation because they would've had no freedom. Although they may have spent some time living on the Mescalero reservation in New Mexico. But because they weren't enrolled tribal members they weren't entitled to any benefits.

[@ViewerAnna]

Excellent! Thank you so much! It's fascinating and rather horrifying to me to hear of peoples so entrenched for generations in the hatred and anger of blood feuds. So much murder, torture, slavery, heartbreak. Tragic.

[@unlearningcommunism4742]

May you please make a tutorial about the images that you have used. You mentioned AI and I'm honestly impressed how those look like.

[@Cardinal1957]

Wars of extermination are nothing new. In this case, if I were Mexican, I would certainly feel they were necessary. Both the Apache and the Commanche were brutal people.

[@81Hairball]

My great grandfather rode with Francisco when he went after the Apaches for revenge. There’s a picture that was in the Arizona Daily star article about his revenge there was a number of cowboys with Francisco with a lot of scalps they collected from the Apaches. There also a very good book on the last bronco apaches with the picture in it. Dated March 13, 1931

[@tylermoulton7294]

Thanks for your own style! I have found a few story tellers on KZbin and all cover similar things, however each have unique voices and takes! History at the OK coral, Dates and dead guys! Top channels for this content! Thank you for reading my ramble

[@Sam_the_Sham_and_the_Pharoahs]

Even as a Native American (Stockbridge Munsee and Menominee), I feel he was justified in the majority of his decisions. At the end of the day, we don't know exactly what went down, but as a father and husband, I can only imagine the absolute rage felt by him. Natives by and large weren't exactly peaceful people. Don't think that we weren't doing horrendous things to each other before and after Columbus. Heck you should meet some of the ones I know in the modern age.

[@DanielMorales-gu3my]

That's the problem with the justice of revenge there is no justice

[@conveyor2]

Amazing that the first western movies were being produced at the same time.

[@jamesdugan640]

If you can, look for a copy of Arizona Highways magazine from September 1976 celebrating the surrender of Geronimo. There is a side story of missing Apaches in the Sierra Madre Mountains that you might find interesting.

[@Demac137]

They latter moved in with the Raramuri, I believe this to be 100%

[@MollyGrue1]

6:20: you said it, Fimbres acting like this lead to hysterical revenge campaign afterwards. I do not see how s.o. just rides off and even drops a little girl somewhere in the flight process. I know the story and cannot simpathise with s.o. killing and skalping and in the end, his little son was killed. On the other hand, this little group of raiders who attacked the Fimbres familiy i. m. o. where not exactly the nice guys among the remaining Apaches, either. There were fanatics and lunatics and ptsd victims on both sides. Like intimidating Lupe from going back to her siblings does not appear to be very 'apache' as they usually love their children. Personal guess: Remainders kind of blended in with the time. Lipan Apache in Coahuila and others in Chihuahua show up and make contact these last years. in Mexico there is less racism and no reservation system but many natives disguise their identity to get accepted.