Apache Extinction | The Secret War to EXTERMINATE the Last Free Bronco Apache

[@datesanddeadguys]

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[@Mocaknight]

Hey do a video on Chieft Joseph. There's a lot of content you can go over with him

[@Vorpal_Wit]

I appreciate that you post your source material, but could also possibly post links to the art sources as well. The art featured in this video was outstanding and I would love to follow up on it. Thanks.

[@datesanddeadguys]

The vast majority of the art for this episode was generated by AI. I, hopefully, will put together a website in the coming weeks to make stuff like that available to folks.

[@johnmatthews4717]

Thieves, kidnappers, murderers and rapists... wonder why everyone wanted them dead.

[@NickolasFigler-hu6tz]

Kiss my Apache ass

[@timfdubois]

You mentioned that children were told not to play in certian areas. Well...my mother grew up in the Arivapa Canyon in Arizona during the lated teens into the 1920s and she was told by her mother to watch out for 'renegade Indians'. This episode rekindled the stories my mother and uncles told me when I was a kid. I had a great uncle in Arizona named Miles Wood. He was friends with Geronimo and Cochise and would cut cattle out for them when their people were hungry. If you have the book 'Bury my Heart at Wounded Knee' by Dee Brown, you will find reference to him when he testified for an Apache to help prove the Apache was innocent of murder. Thanks for the video.

[@arctodussimus6198]

Your great uncle reminds me of the exchange between Ten Bears and Josie Wales in that movie. He must have been a man of great integrity to be a friend of Cochise and Geronimo. It’s true what was said in the movie : “Governments don’t live together, people do.”

[@TylerLoftis-e9y]

My grandma grew up 1930s in Arkansas and she said when she was a little girl they used to warn them as well not to venture into the mountains or the Indians would snatch them up

[@jannford6916]

'Boogiemen of an untamed wilderness'', makes my neck hairs stand up. Great description. Francisco knew his enemy. He knew he needed support.

[@EA-hs9xp]

your channel is underrated. You will be at 1million subscribers in no time. keep it up !

[@datesanddeadguys]

I appreciate it. Thanks for watching!

[@FrankLooez-el6nv]

That's right it's the Best documentary about apache Nation people that's a lots of stories of Apache presence. In Juarez and El Paso Texas during the arrival of the Spaniards when the Baptisted with the name of El Paso de El Norte they used to have in control The Franciscan and Spaniards presidios. The name of the first Franciscans and Spaniards enclaves . Apache Nation are very historical people the use to have in check the mule rich carriers to Santa Fe new Mexico major trade in the Camino real from Mexico of goods of course apache raid those Wagons

[@stevefaulkner6689]

Absolutely , Definitely enjoy this content and lucky to have just found it

[@markmarshall8151]

I have lived off and on with the Raramuri, Tarahumara Indians since 2014 in the Serra Madre Occidental mountain range. I spent 3 and a half years in those mountains without returning to the United States. I know those mountains and anything could be living there it is that remote. I will return in March Lord willing and after watching your excellent video I will look for any traces of the Broncos. I will let you know what I find. The Raramuri can run between 50 to 100 miles in a day. If there are any remnants I will find them

[@RogueReplicant]

Those canyons are incredibly rugged, they put Afghanistan to shame. Some parts of Copper Canyon are TWICE AS DEEP AND LONG as the Grand Canyon. The Raramuri are such good runners in that environment that they run down deer. 😮

[@Demac137]

Please ask the Raramuri if they know anything about Apaches joining them long ago.

[@dominikspencer3981]

@markmarshall8151 If you do not mind me asking, what were/have you been doing there in the Sierra Madres living with these folks? I have always wanted to go there, but too scared. I'm in AZ, and would like to communicate with you....

[@jumex8267]

I was fortunate enough to have been born and raised in Chihuahua. South of Chihuahua city. We have a large population of Raramuri there. I even knew some. As an amateur historian, I believe the Apache blended with the Raramuri (Tarahumara) who shared a very close civilization with the Apache. Genetically very similar if not identical. Language from what I know so close that they can understand each other. The Raramuri “escaped” civilization by going into the Copper Canyons (yes, there’s many) it would not be far fetched to believe a large number of Apache moved in with their “cousins” and are still there today. One interesting note; the Raramuri to this day dislike “Mexicans”, they will tell it to your face. I forget the word now that I’m older, but they are not shy about it 😂. Now, I live in AZ where there are tons of Apache. They still dislike Mexicans to this day. I have personally met some with the last name “Lopez”. They have changed it to “Lopes” and pronounce it “Lopes” as in Antelopes. They also get offended if you confuse them with Mexicans. 😮

[@datesanddeadguys]

Goodwin’s book mentions the Tarahumara as an option as well but didn’t have any anecdotes that I recall. This is a great comment. Thank you.

[@AmericanRefugee212]

I wonder when the mainstream society in Mexico started to separate themselves from their Indian heritage, being at least Mestizos or more. Perhaps it was cause of the racial caste system from the Spanish Colonial era where being associated with Native was looked down upon. By the 1800s they seem to have considered themselves “just Mexicans”while they were having their own wars against wild tribes that had similar physical appearance to them.

[@FrankLooez-el6nv]

In deed raramuri trahuamara call Mexican chabochis Despectivly. They don't travel or live among Mexican like the apache Spirit. I love them and they like me I claim part yaki from my great grand father. Apache way ifiving isn't not bae up on material world they live in peace with mother earth. They're very mistic.and don't speak To much with Mexicans don't trust them. The take their land from them in the high sierras . Now recently the kill father and son activists. For speaking up the their behalf . Now with the criminal Sinaloa cartels presence the struggling continue.

[@redd5393]

yo, apache and rarámuri are zero percent simliar. they're from completely different languages families, they have zero relation and apache wasn't even spoken in mexico until several hundred years ago.

[@Bigbear1644]

Viva Mexico 🇲🇽

[@edwardlangdon9256]

Wow, you had promised that you would do this research on the broncos and present the story. Oh boy, you did not disappoint. I am absolutely stunned and amazed by this story. A story that few today know. Thank you so much for doing this and look forward to your next story. Well done.

[@frenchroast1355]

As a fiction writer who has always wanted to do a western adventure, you are giving me a ton of ideas to work with. Very well done.

[@datesanddeadguys]

Western history is so interesting. Happy to give you some ideas. Resources are in the description if you need any sources.

[@frenchroast1355]

Thank you. I will definitely be tapping those.

[@StrengthOfSamson45]

Can I be your star cowboy?

[@elmochomo8218]

Mexico will always be the Wild West

[@thalmoragent9344]

​@frenchroast1355 Oh man, you have any small scripts or chapters available to read? Or rather, any sort of general plot of your story?

[@rossburney8713]

I found your channel about a month ago. Watched everything. Showed my brother. He did the same. Thank you for bringing these stories to us. Keep kicking ass

[@datesanddeadguys]

I love comments like this. Thanks for watching. I’m happy you and your brother have enjoyed the channel.

[@BubbaZanetti_375]

I have many of the books you displayed I've bought in Flagstaff (passing through). Apache are my favorite tribe to historically research & read & your channel is fantastic. Thank you!

[@datesanddeadguys]

They are absolutely awesome to learn about. There are a few books I haven’t read yet that I would still like to but there is a good chance I am gonna move into the plains for some of the next stories I tell.

[@BubbaZanetti_375]

@@datesanddeadguys looking forward to it!

[@aaronoverton3422]

Hey you do a fabulous job with these stories . Living in Arizona my whole life and with a great grand mother born in 1903 here in Skull Valley , history has always been a major interest . Thank you

[@datesanddeadguys]

Thank you for watching!

[@TheHamburgler123]

Awesome video, man! I've been enjoying the heck out of these videos about native tribes. Crazy to think this happened less than 100 years ago! Not a long time by any means.

[@datesanddeadguys]

That is a part of the video I don’t know if I emphasized well enough. This was all less than 100 years ago. World War I already happened. For much of the conflict the Great Depression was going on. Helge Ingstad looked for the Apache the same year my Grandmother was born. It is absolutely crazy to think about the idea that our grandparents may have met people who fought in the Indian Wars. Thanks for the comment.

[@jhonnygesponny]

@@datesanddeadguys When you think about the period when Helge Ingstad launched the expedition and his guides possibly found a recently abandonned camp, imagine that only 2 years later Germany launched the invasion in Poland starting World War 2 !

[@datesanddeadguys]

It’s almost impossible to comprehend. There is a world in the multiverse where the Nazis invaded Mexico and had to fight against Indians.

[@DavidGB215]

Have you done a clip on Cochise? As a kid I read the great book by Elloit Arnold "Blood brother" later the old series Broken Aroow was mad as well as the movie with I believe Jeff Chandler played Cochise, the series was Michael Ansara playing Cochise . As a little boy in the 60s in New Jersey I was so memorized by the story when I turned 18 I traveled to AZ and met Nino Cochise, Chief Cochise's grandson . In Tombstone AZ. One of the greatest moments of my life.

[@AThreat2Democracy]

I have a cousin who has a house in Baja California. He tells me it's like the Wild West down there. Things still haven't changed much.

[@UlookinMe]

As a army vet and dad, dude made the right choice. He could guarantee saving one kid versus almost assuredly losing all. Especially alone and lightly armed, you are supposed to have a 3-1 numbers advantage to assault or counter assault a enemy position. It’s a absolutely terrible choice to make but he made the right one.

[@datesanddeadguys]

This is a great thought out response. It must have destroyed him.

[@ClyDIley]

Yep, well said

[@RONALD......]

In these modern times we are not allowed to avenge our loved ones, Damn shame too..

[@steakeater4557]

He let his wife die by herself, poor woman, and made his son lose all value as a bargaining chip.

[@UlookinMe]

@@steakeater4557 His wife was more than likely dead or mortally wounded when she got shot off he horse. Once could make an argument for the son part though.

[@iainsanders4775]

H'mm, interesting & good research. My grandfather was said to have taken part in campaigns against Apache & Comanche in Arizona & NM as a volunteer civilian with the US Army. But he only arrived in America in 1886, from England, at 17 yrs old - so right on the Geronimo surrender year, but not 'Indian fighting' for a year or two. Research turned up these last few remnants & settled my puzzlement. Ironically my father was born & raised in Durango & did a timber cruise in the Sierra Madre Occidental in 1926-7. No reports of Apache though, p'haps he was just a little too late - luckily ..😄 Quite some Yaqui in that state though. My own sympathies are fairly well with those last free men..

[@dr.davidmiller6682]

There’s a concept called triage which is applied in emergency medicine in the service of maximum good. You focus on saving those who can be saved first, and get to the worse ones later on. It applies in many situations!

[@ML-dz5ix]

There is a story I heard when I was little about the Apache: A Spaniard road his horse hard for 75 miles until it collapsed. The Spaniard removed his saddle and continued on foot. A Mexican found the horse, got it on its feet, and road it another 50 miles until it collapsed, then continued on foot. A Texan found the horse, got it on its feet, and road it another 40 miles until it collapsed, then continued on foot. An Apache found the horse, and ate it.

[@dchief2924]

Nice story but Apache don’t eat horse meat

[@solyluna1778]

I admire your ability to remain totally neutral when telling (and after researching!) all this horror ...

[@datesanddeadguys]

I do my best. This is a story where I definitely don’t think there is a bad actor as much as there are bad circumstances. The perspectives of Fimbres and the Apache can make sense to anyone in their position… I think.

[@SpicyTake]

@@datesanddeadguys The only thing that really bothers me is that they didn't take Lupe back. Maybe the spiraling tragedy could have been avoided and there could have been healing. I wish we could ask them why. These things are lost to history. Thanks for sharing what you know.

[@datesanddeadguys]

This part of the story bugs me too because nothing I have read tells me why. It is just presented as a matter of course. She asked to come back and was essentially banished. Maybe it was for embracing Christianity or maybe there was a part of the story that was lost but I don’t know why that happened to her.

[@steakeater4557]

@@datesanddeadguys Dine interpret Life the way mother nature presents it. The bird already left the nest. I imagine the population wasn't very accepting of her though due to her race, made apparent by still being a medium to her captors, so the tribe threatened her to live life. Sad, but it's for the better unless someone just didn't like her race.

[@albundy-k9x]

geronimo's cousin said in 1958 that there were still broncos in the sierra madre in 1958 . if this is true it is remarkable.

[@joaquinflores3547]

there is still apaches in Mexico till this day specially in Chihuahua

[@albundy-k9x]

@@joaquinflores3547 are you speaking of bronco apaches or modern day apaches

[@joaquinflores3547]

@@albundy-k9x modern day apaches, their a small number but their still some of them around

[@jkoonce4244]

@@joaquinflores3547 mashed potatoes don’t mean gravy original commenter was speaking as to Broncos dipstick

[@albundy-k9x]

his cousin was jason betzinez remarkable in 1958 betzinez has a book I FOUGHT WITH GERONIMO

[@johncorrigan8366]

Wow what a story, the bronco apache I hope they’ve survived. Thanks for sharing

[@mariotorres4271]

So, my great-grandmother on my dad's mom's side is from this region in Mexico. We know she was indigenous, but she had kept a secret of who her family/people group was. She was given to my great-grandfather ( Her older sister husband, a Spanish man) after her sister died giving birth. He needed someone to care for the baby. She was only 13 at the time. She would go on to have four children with my great-grandfather. She told my uncle stories about migrating between the Arizona white mountains and Mexico as a child. She officially immigrated to the United States in 1916 and lived in the Southwest for a short time. They settled in California in the 1920s and worked as farm workers. The whole time, she kept the secret of her family origins. I think my Grandfather (My dad's dad) knew she was Apache. He could be a difficult man if he thought you were beneath him. He would call her a "dirty Apache" in a close family setting. I met my great-grandmother in 1990 when she was 95 years old. I remember her calling me and my brothers the white children. She seemed so old and little scary to my 5-year-old self. She died later that year. She took her secret of where she was from with her. My grandfather and grandmother never spoke of her history as a Hispanic person; it didn't fit their caste system narrative. The more Spanish blood, the better. I think now of her childhood and the lack of it. She would have seen some of these major societal change if she was from that area and Apache. Maybe she was from a family of Apache holdouts. Sadly, our family will never truly know, and we are forever disconnected from the culture of her people.

[@ricardomorales7020]

Kinda of funny my mom had secerat of her own, before passed she called me and my younger sister told us that she indeed was native, she disliked Mexican especially those from south of the board ,something I found confusing as a younger lad

[@chalicecasillas7895]

I'm Apache from Arizona and my mother was born in the 1940s. She's actually told me stories about stuff like this how her grandmother had two sisters that were stolen by Mexicans and possibly sold in Mexico to be wives. She said that when she was in high school her class from the reservation actually took a trip to Mexico and there were some people there in small towns and villages that styled their dresses the same way that we did and could understand what they were saying. She said some of the older women actually started crying when they heard people speaking apache. She said it was possible that these women could have been daughters or granddaughters of the kidnapped women .

[@inquisitorkrieger8171]

Noooo she wasn't. 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

[@11AceHearts11]

The first 2 sentences sound like my dad's story. We are from Delicias. His grandmother, "Angelita," would tell him that she was from the "Indios malos" and that her brothers and uncles were very tall men. My dad believes she was Apache based on her descriptions. Her maiden name was Guevara, and it is my/our understanding that Guevara is an Apache name. ?? She was married to a Spanish man named Victoriano. I've done genealogy, and on the records, it'll say "Indio" or "Mestizo," but not specify a tribe. My DNA results say 40% indigenous, but do not specify a tribe. It only specifies areas in northern and central Mexico.

[@franciscorodriguez259]

​@@11AceHearts11Same here,my DNA says ,39%native from central Mexico,it doesn't specify any tribe,my family is from Durango, and Zacatecas MX !

[@vepr1332]

This is a truely fascinating story. Well delivered as always. Hope you are considering the expanded time frame of 30ish minutes, this one cries out for more ! Thanks for the effort you are putting in.

[@datesanddeadguys]

I usually find myself cutting the scripts significantly because I don’t want to make things to long for people. But I would love feedback from folks. Do you want longer videos?

[@poopmaster1911]

​@@datesanddeadguysI do!

[@vepr1332]

There is a true crime tuber that hit the scene about 2 years ago. In 6 months he got around 500,000 subs. He started out around 15/20 minute lengths and then went to 30/40 minutes. He mentioned he had many requests for that time frame. He became a phenome and I haven't checked recently but I believe his subs are in multimillion numbers now. Just saying. But he tells great stories , as you do and I don't want to sound like a broken record but 30ish minutes , in my opinion, is the sweet spot. It's like rushing through sex so your woman doesn't get bored. But if you're doing it right she will beg for more. At least that has been MY experience.

[@Patrick-uu5xg]

I would happily spend a hour filled with details on this. Reminds me of the movie ''The last of the dogmen'' Any way YES mORE VIDEOSE ON THIS SUBJECT PLEASE.@@datesanddeadguys

[@cdfe3388]

I’m an unashamed history nerd and the West is one of my areas of interest, but also the one about which I know the least. I love your channel, man.

[@datesanddeadguys]

I know the feeling. I fully believe there is too much to know for anyone to be more than a niche expert. It’s awesome. Thank you for watching.

[@cdfe3388]

@@datesanddeadguys I also love that you keep it fair. No romanticism, no white guilt. All sides have reasons for pride and shame.

[@codybarrier6295]

This channel is so underrated. Thank you very much for the work you do on these stories, I use a lot of them to teach my 8 year old son

[@datesanddeadguys]

Thank you. Maybe my last on the Apache is coming next weekend. It’s all about Mangas Coloradas. I hope you enjoy it.

[@codybarrier6295]

@@datesanddeadguys I am absolutely positive I will. I loved the Comanche stories as well. You are unbelievably thorough in your story telling and research. Your channel is going to blow up soon enough. Truly appreciate your time and dedication to these videos, your doing great work.

[@datesanddeadguys]

I’m finishing my video on Mangas and then I’m actually gonna head back to the Comanche and focus on them a little while.

[@wellersonoliveira5334]

I am Brazilian and have native american ancestry (i think my fenotypes shows it already haha) love your videos about native american history and also your narration ❤

[@datesanddeadguys]

Thank you! Happy you have enjoyed it.

[@gmoney10000]

Being Apache, I enjoy the content of your storytelling. Keep it up!

[@JacobSaip-ev3em]

Apaches will one day settle the score with those kinds of people.

[@JK-pt5kq]

​@JacobSaip-ev3em Haven't we spilt enough blood on both sides? Let's work to bring our people to better lives.

[@JacobSaip-ev3em]

@@JK-pt5kq they tried that until the Mexicans duped them.

[@FrankLooez-el6nv]

Let's put things Right. The real Mexicanos peasants not Rich ranchers the lived in harmony with apache people in Chihuahua but the cruel Mexican government That. Rich despotic ranchers and hacienda Owners . The infamous government rurales Started the war and extermination of Apache natives with medival scalping practices But a repeat myself. The poor mexicanos and modest ranchers trade And get along with apache way before the Spaniards presence It's why a lots apache decendents in Chihuahua . State since the 1600s Practices

[@pierangelobellanova3400]

Hiii hiii hiii🏹✊

[@cplmpcocptcl6306]

As a soldier and a Mother I have much respect for clever fighting. Running in to save his Wife and Son would only of gotten all 4 of them killed. People that just run in on emotion are dangerous. Make terrible leaders. Great upload. I had NO idea..

[@datesanddeadguys]

That is the fear. There would be so much guilt for not rushing in but it is just such a high risk. Thanks for watching. Great input.

[@benjaminmorris2312]

Soldier my ass

[@NeverPayPig]

"Familia es todo." The line burned into every Mexican childs mind.

[@gunnerhiro394]

They stole it from Fast and Furious.

[@lromo6688]

😄@@gunnerhiro394

[@marksimmons7972]

Family is everything

[@obiwankenobi5769]

That applies to people all across the world, not just one just one specific group

[@therighttap6873]

Man had a rough day and coming home and seeing you have a new video up made it 100x better. Best history channel around keep up the amazing work as always much love❤

[@datesanddeadguys]

This truly means a lot to me. You’ll have to let me know if you still feel that way after the video.

[@therighttap6873]

Definitely helped man sure puts things into perspective of how bad some days can get for people lol.

[@DavidGB215]

Agree, love these stories, so well narrated

[@FrankyBlack]

love your stories bro! excellent delivery and mannnn..whaf a tough decision to make..i think he did the right thing by 100 percent saving his daughter... but poor guy man.... great show bro!!

[@datesanddeadguys]

What a horrible choice. It could be that Fimbres did all that he could but there is no way that doesn’t haunt him the rest of his life.

[@FrankyBlack]

@@datesanddeadguys yeah man.. brutal..those were some rough times all around...and yeah man .. you would second guess yourself and beat urself up over it for the rest of ur life for sure. crazy shit man.

[@datesanddeadguys]

I am excited to read the perspectives of commenters who think he should have rushed in. It is I think the harder position to justify but definitely the one people would want to do.

[@FrankyBlack]

@@datesanddeadguys yeah for sure... i thought about that.. and as awful as it would be to think about.. my wife is most certainly dead.. i saw her go down.. then it comes down to my daughters life and mine..or my sons..OR we all.get killed... and i hate to say it but i thinj i would have to protect my daughter over my son.. given that much more awful things would be done to my dauggter than my son... ahhhhh its horrible.. your mind would be racing with all these thoughts a million miles an hour.... very sad position for a family man to be put in.. suprising his wife wouldnt also be armed.. but my guess is she probably was... and just didnt havd a chance to pull her gun.. the natives are too skilled af ambush.

[@datesanddeadguys]

One of the accounts say that she had Francisco’s rifle packed on the saddle of her horse, which is why he was unarmed. Most don’t bring up her being armed and suggest that just Francisco was. Truth is we just don’t know. But I think you get it and are going through why I really wanted to ask this question. It stuck with me for a long time. A couple days. Just nothing but bad choices.

[@jbos5107]

I have heard mentions of these stories but never the full story. It's heartbreaking and you're right that there were no happy endings. I can sympathize with the father. He paid a terrible price but I know that there is nobody I wouldn't put lead into to protect my family.

[@roryhertzog5282]

Great video. I found the fact that the Apache were watching his family very fascinating. Whatever happened to him or his daughter?

[@datesanddeadguys]

I wasn’t able to track that down. There is a book called “They Never Surrendered” about the incident I didn’t read. It cost like $150 because it was a limited print in the 1990s. Maybe that has the answers. The closest I got was that there were some interviews with the people of Nacori Chico in the past few decades and some relatives of his were interviewed talking about how the attack impacted Francisco. But they never said what happened to him.

[@aaronmoreno8918]

This was a sad but amazing story. This reminds me of my Grandmother’s story. You see my Grandmother is of Tarahumara Indian descent and she was born in the Chihuahuan mountains or the Sierra Madres as they are called. They are also called the sierras Tarahumara’s too. The sierra madres are Mexico’s Grand Canyon and it is four times bigger than the Grand Canyon in the USA. She said her grandparents would tell her to watch out for Apaches. They heard stories of Apaches still running wild in Sierras! Because the Tarahumaras and Apaches are enemies. She said that some mixing happened between some groups of Tarahumaras and Apaches and other Mexican tribes, she said she wouldn’t be surprised if we had that too. I recently did an Ancestry DNA 🧬 test, and it shows I am 53% Indigenous Native American from Mexico and the US Southwest. It had it highlighted in the Mexican States of Chihuahua, Sonora, Durango and Zacatecas. The US States of Texas, New Mexico and Arizona 🏜️.

[@healdiseasenow]

The Apache commented "why would we kill those who raise our horses and cows"

[@TheJefffry]

Just found this awesome channel. I’m from Australia and find American history so interesting. Keep it up your delivery is phenomenal 👍🏻

[@joebidet2050]

Actually Mexico

[@ninjaboy7362]

Love your videos! I've learned so much. You are awesome at telling the stories. Thanks for making these!

[@datesanddeadguys]

Thank you for watching. I really appreciate that people enjoy them.

[@jacklarue7049]

Here I am again, watching one of your videos…this time though, it’s a brand new upload. Have loved the 40 or so videos I’ve seen already, and 7 mins in this is great. Has been hard to find new material to watch on the Apache/Comanche tribes as I’m quite up to speed on them. Your channel is refreshing i that regard, as I learn not something new every time, but many things! May need to toss some coin to your patreon. Keep the ‘Dates and Dead Guys’ coming bro!

[@datesanddeadguys]

I love hearing that people have watched a lot of the videos. Thank you for the support. I think for a while I have wrapped up the Apache series. But I have three planned on the Comanche and a couple more on the Osage and Tonkawas coming.

[@Scrat335]

This channel is very underrated. Great work.

[@datesanddeadguys]

Thank you. I am working to make it something.

[@samlindsey1078]

the history of the time period of many of your videos, are not the ' happy ending' kind, but that was the reality of those days, and there is always something to be learned, if we really pay attention. Keep up the good work.

[@rick91443]

Great channel. Said before, living so far away, it's great to watch this channel about western history....cheers...rr Normandy, France

[@yuritesticoff1141]

Your videos are the only media/content I look forward to in 2023

[@kalaoahaole]

Wow... the way this Francisco and Geronimo's stories mirror each other perfectly ... i get chicken skin, Kuz!

[@dougdillon1271]

Really enjoy your videos. I love history, and your videos have information I sometimes haven't heard. Keep up the outstanding work!

[@datesanddeadguys]

Thank you for watching!

[@shroominz9471]

Im from the San Carlos Apache Tribe i love your Apache videos

[@onesojourner7514]

I am from Casas Grandes, Chihuahua. My mother is from a village in the Sierra Madre shared by Sonora and Chihuahua. The village is named Ejido Hernandez (Jobales). My mom, now in her mid 70s, tells me of a great aunt she had who was apache. This great aunt, apparently was abandoned by an apache party, as they were attacked. The apache girl was adopted by a family and eventually became my great-great-great aunt.

[@edoliver7990]

Wow, very fascinating!!!

[@carlosmelendez2101]

This history will make an awesome movie!!

[@trickydicky2908]

That tale makes the Hatfield's and McCoy's feud, seem very tame indeed.

[@datesanddeadguys]

Speaking of the Hatfield’s and McCoys. I would like to make that video too. What a story.

[@trickydicky2908]

@datesanddeadguy Yes. Probably a lot of available research data.

[@datesanddeadguys]

I am sure that one has been done before but hopefully I could put a take on it that would make it fun and original for folks.

[@trickydicky2908]

@Datesanddeadguys You make it, and I'll definitely listen to it.

[@datesanddeadguys]

Good to know.

[@elliemcfadden5511]

I really do enjoy your posts. You are easy to follow and understand. You have taught me a lot. I am 72 years old so I am proof that you are never to old to learn something new.

[@raquelguerra3149]

Thank you for this series, you have helped me understand the Apache people better. It's helped answer some questions about my own family history. Thank you again ❤

[@wadetaylor1299]

Thanks man I loved it could listen to you talk about this topic for hours 👍

[@datesanddeadguys]

Thank you. If you haven’t checked it out, this is just one part in a seven part series. There is plenty more to see.

[@DirtRoadAutoRepair]

I’ve been waiting for this episode. Worth the wait. Love this channel!

[@tylermoulton7294]

Thanks for your own style! I have found a few story tellers on KZbin and all cover similar things, however each have unique voices and takes! History at the OK coral, Dates and dead guys! Top channels for this content! Thank you for reading my ramble

[@michaelcarey3105]

Great story/information! I've long wanted to know more about 'wild' Apache in the 20's and 30's! Grim story, but mesmerizing! Excellent video!

[@TheEggeater1111]

Love your channel! Have you considered doing the Glanton gang?

[@jerrywilbur7020]

I think the last documented Apache raid was in 1929 or 39. I grew up in S. AZ on a ranch in the Dragoon mtns where Cochise Stronghold was. I love this history. Thx for your work

[@jullianohirsch8702]

I'm not a father so I can't put myself in that person's shoes with any stake in the game. That said, I don't see him as a coward, he had a daughter to protect, was outnumbered, and may or may not have had a gun. No one can really know what their reaction will be unless they're put into that scenario.

[@DiegoMazda3]

Thank you for including your resources

[@datesanddeadguys]

Even the books you can find online. Except for the one by Helge Ingstad. Openlibrary.org has them. Apache Diaries was my favorite. There are layers to it. It follows the story through the perspective of Grenville Goodwin. But then He died in about 1940. His son later went through his journals and pieced together his writings. Even followed his tracks through Mexico. It’s awesome.

[@lostinspace466]

This is an incredible story, very eerie in a sense. Thank you for this great video.

[@tonypage9302]

My mother is from a mormon colony in between casas Grandes & buenaventura, i was partially raised there, crazy too see that map on this video..

[@datesanddeadguys]

I wanted to work in some of the Mormon Colony stuff. There is a strange story from I think the 1890s about an attack on Mormons. It isn’t enough to make a video on but it was a strange account. It’s creepy. Allegedly, a group of Bronco Apache show themselves before this family of Mormons. The wife says something to the effect of “Please don’t shed any blood.” And one of the Apache replies “We like to shed blood.” They then proceed to massacre the family, take items, and destroy items in the home. The woman who was shot survived after being shot in the gut. Some even claimed that one of the attackers was the Apache Kid… although he was blamed for about everything so that is less likely.

[@tonypage9302]

@@datesanddeadguys i listened to the Apache wars on Audible & supposedly the Apache kids Daughter was abandoned by him for her own safety i think in chihuahua but i could be mistaken, she was friendly with a mormon community & told them who her father was & that later brought in people from the U.S to interview her & ask her for her fathers where abouts, i wonder if those where the same mormos he attacked years before, my Great grandfather got there in 1912 but he was worried about villas movement & didnt return until 1923 i wonder if he ever came across bronco apache without knowing it, thanks for sharing keep it up..

[@Demac137]

@@datesanddeadguyscould have been Massai who was Apache kids right hand man and who allegedly moved to the sierra madres.

[@conveyor2]

Amazing that the first western movies were being produced at the same time.

[@ViewerAnna]

Excellent! Thank you so much! It's fascinating and rather horrifying to me to hear of peoples so entrenched for generations in the hatred and anger of blood feuds. So much murder, torture, slavery, heartbreak. Tragic.

[@rodmunch1931]

Great story. I know the Tom Brown survival books are based on knowledge given to him from an Apache Indian I think it was a friends brother, I always wondered about how long they lasted, in reality, outside what they tell us.

[@c.joelummus8880]

Sorry my friend but Tom Brown was a lying phony. He made it all up there was no stalking wolf there was no Rick

[@dunkerfilm]

Master Storyteller!🙂 Keep up the good work! 👍

[@loganhuebner7288]

There are several stories of one Indian tribe living in the Wapie river valley through 1940. My dad, who is 88 now seen this tribe. I have been to the location he still talks about.

[@nickfodness7321]

My grandfather said when he was a kid there was native that camped out on the creek on our farm and they would send a kid to ask for milk

[@Speenzoidotron]

Most fathers would have probably charged in to save their wife and son. But I think that success rate would be close to zero. He saved his daughter.

[@petegibson79]

I was researching this a while ago, and I found reference to an unconfirmed sighting in 2017, but I can't find any details on it. Do you happen to know of any sources for recent sightings? Thanks for the video. Fascinating stuff.

[@datesanddeadguys]

It’s a comparison I am reluctant to make but the sightings I have seen feel very Sasquatchy to me. Do I believe people are seeing something? I am willing to assume they are. Do I think it is Apache? I would like to see some hard proof.

[@JawnHuey.]

Same

[@petegibson79]

I don't necessarily think it's apache, I just like the idea that the myth still persists into current times and I'd love to read the accounts of modern sightings.....but I can't seem to find them.

[@dylanbuchanan6511]

BAD. ASS. Great storytelling and historical research. You really deserve the subscribers bro

[@BWIL2515]

Always look forward to your videos very well done

[@datesanddeadguys]

Thank you. I appreciate you watching.

[@thegreatermysteries4134]

Excellent video! Thank you for your work, sir.

[@Chris.Swearengin]

History is so interesting. To me I have learned a grip of events in this world.

[@melissagottlieb3381]

So riveting! Thanks for sharing!

[@2006Mercury]

Incredible as always

[@peterwallace9764]

That was a very captivating video. Of the 3 ‘applicants’ for the hunting of Apaches I can truly believe that happening in view of those numerous stories and ‘movies’ relaying the murderous evil of the warring Apache. Great presentation.

[@Mountainghost72]

I'm Mescalero, I've met Apaches that came out of Mexico in the last 25 year's, I'm sure there are still some in Mexico, what Americans don't realize, is most dark skinned Mexican are native, Apache can easily walk amongst other natives south of the border

[@Cucurú-c9v]

My blood brother is Apache from Mexico. He grew up all over the North Western states of Mexico. They'd get over the border to attend Sunrise Festivals on the res. In NM. Ha was Bronco. I met Salvadorans who highly resembled him even in height. Poor guy chose a bad path in life, and I don't know what happened to him. I'm Mescalero a long with the only family I knew, my stepdads. Most are well over 6ft. Baby bro was 6 ft. 7 in. Lol the women, beautiful. At least by Apache standards.

[@christophersmith7714]

This is a great channel. Luv the stories and luv the way you narrate them! Cheers from UK

[@ronaldwinfield307]

1st { I don't know what Francisco Fembres should have done in that horrible 1927 situation. He was damned if he did & damned if he didn't. Does anybody really know?} 2nd {You have an incredible knowledge of Apache History. I appreciate you sharing that with us} I knew from Geronimo biographies about the Bronco Apache but knew very little about them. I also know that Indian Wars in Mexico persisted long after they ended in the USA but know very little about them. I did not know 1/4 of the American standing Army was used to track down Geronimo. A lot of Mexican soldiers were also tracking down Geronimo. A question running through my mind is: How many American & Mexican soldiers combined were tracking down 35 men, 8 boys & 101 women? As always I enjoy your videos.

[@datesanddeadguys]

1. That is the exact right answer. There is no good choice. At least a 50% chance he and his daughter died if he rushed in. 2. I forget how many Mexican troops helped out by it was at least a couple thousand. Keep in mind, that was 1886 and the standing army was not nearly the size it grew to in the 20th century. Still a ton of folks. Thank you for watching. I love that people come back to see more.

[@pikiwiki]

The drama in these stories is heart stopping and relentless

[@1963921]

New subscriber here all the way from Australia. Very good content with a lot of pieces of information but above all excellent narrative skills. Can I also ask you about the images you used for this video? Who is the painter or illustrator? I really like them.

[@datesanddeadguys]

Most of the Art is AI generated. I use references like Frederick Remington a lot for it but some of the creations are really cool. I have a new video coming out today on Mangas Coloradas. I’m excited about what people think of the art for that one.

[@Mitsaras87A]

Amazing content, thanks!

[@dennisyates1762]

Excellent video.👍 Keep it up. Good reporting.

[@dariusbaja21]

U truly do deserve much much more subscribers n love for the videos u make . I personally dont subscribe to many KZbinrs, but this was a no brainer. Ur awesome man , please keep these coming 😊

[@datesanddeadguys]

I really appreciate it. Six months ago I only had about 5k so the channel is growing fast. Hopefully it continues to do so. Thank you for watching.

[@dariusbaja21]

​@@datesanddeadguysgreat to hear that ur getting more support and subscribers. I know it can be a slow and challenging process, but I'm super optimistic for u and ur channels success. I'm so glad that ur videos showed up on my feed 😊 All the best to u and looking forward to the next videos and ur journey to hit 100k subs , and ultimately 1 Million .

[@samlindsey1078]

As a father, I can only imagine how horrible it was for him to be faced with a decision like that. I would definitely Never presume to accuse him of cowardice. Appreciate the history you highlight with this chanel. It's really a sad reality that so much of

[@michaelbrown5050]

Still with you ! Keep dropping content

[@RONALD......]

You are serve as a good read for me through video.. great reporting on western history..

[@PMMagro]

Very good at making history interesting once again :) I am European far fram from this region but it is something special to learn from someone that is clearly knowledgeble and engaged.

[@MakerBoyOldBoy]

Fascinating history. APACHE is first mentioned in a Spanish written account. This group had several large "bands" with differing spelling of their self-name N'De. Apache is a bit pejorative. The history is both intriguing and a minor industry with books and movies. Much never reaches white ears for good reasons. The Sierra Madre Mts.are a vicious region of smuggling. White authors and social-type workers who were well received there in the past now know to stay away. A "cowboy" who worked on a border cattle ranch related how a group of below the border raiders rustled a bunch of cattle successfully. The ranch owner rounded up an armed crew on horseback and raided their ranch to retrieve the stolen cattle. That storyteller now has a store job. That specific incident happened around the 1980's. The "Wild West" never ended. I'm glad I grew up in Tucson and southern Arizona. Hell of a lotta stories! Try some.

[@javierquinonez8863]

Wow !!! This is amazing content! I love it. My family is from a small town in Chihuahua. I wonder if my Grandpa would have any stories about this

[@michaeldouglas1243]

Great stuff. Loved this video

[@daveramirez3056]

My grandma told me these legends she was raised on the reservation and she told us into the 50’s and I a way a born in the 1970’s they know the underground tunnels that move thru the mountains in relation. To this there were stories of Geronimo moving from Arizona to New Mexico thru these tunnels so you can safely assume there might be a few left cause in Apache junction Arizona they will find headless bodies etc! While there hiking or searching for gold when you go to far into the mountains. I’m just crazy maybe I misunderstood!!

[@stevehernandez645]

Your commentary on the Apache is very interesting and informative and helpful to me being a 5th generation Apache,thanks

[@jessemeanlt1]

My family comes a mountain village in durango on the boarders the state he mentions. There is still a lot indains tribes out there. They are blended and speak multi languages. One indain i get along with competed in a cross country running race and he got 1st place with the next person coming 30 minutes later. And he drinks and smokes!

[@mikelatino8126]

Amazing

[@Demac137]

I natural Diet and exercise make a large portion of health probably the two most important things.

[@postapocalypticwarlord4647]

Man your videos are so good I often rewatch them

[@nworbydnar]

This is incredible! What a great video and history lesson. What a great lesson and incredible history lesson, about revenge and hate and anger, and the background on why. This is an amazing video. Thank you.

[@vr112]

Well told sir!

[@Aivottaja]

Kind of amazing that there were tribes still fighting as far as 1930.

[@Demac137]

Natives were getting in shootouts with the ATF and FBI in the 1970s read about AIM and the 1973 occupation of Wounded Knee and we still fight in the court systems for are land and rights till this day.

[@cryptomnesiac]

Human history is a real clusterfuck 👍

[@datesanddeadguys]

100%

[@wizardking2631]

Yeah, I can see some validity there. 🤓

[@BladesRKing]

Love your vids! Well done sir!

[@adamstephenson7518]

Another great video 🤙

[@michaelgawerecki9397]

This story has been amazing. Reminds me of that movie last of the dog men.(the Cheyenne Dog Soldiers) When Sitting Bull went to Canada for a few years,what do you think of the possibility of some of the Lakota or Cheyenne or Arapaho doing something similar in the Canadian Rockies?

[@ak-od7mf]

If those were the circumstances he probably made the right choice by most likely saving his daughters life. Another great episode. Always very interesting and i did not know that they held out for this long. The way that these people lived always fascinates me. Its so romantic in a way to just live off of the nature and imagining being completely disconnected from our current society with government and all the rules and obligations that we have today.

[@bullboo1]

Stealing, murder, rape, cannibalism and live stock rustling is not living off nature.

[@jerlaine1638]

I've eagerly waited for this one!!

[@datesanddeadguys]

It’s a hell of a story. I hope I did it justice.

[@jerlaine1638]

@@datesanddeadguys you did an absolutely fantastic job!! I think during my office time I'm going to start looking into visiting the different Rez's to see if its possible to find out where my Great Great Grandmother had been taken from. I don't think she was 1 of the Bronco Apache who had been forced back but she was 1 of the children taken at 1 point and was taught that it was dirty to be Apache or Native at all

[@datesanddeadguys]

There are a lot of examples of this. I wanted to include it in the episode but couldn’t make it fit the story without being a clunky aside. There was a girl taken from the Apache in the mid 1930s named Camela. There are pictures of her basically as a baby. There are pictures of her years later as a toddler. Her adopted family jmved to California and there are pictures of her graduating high school. It is wild. It happened to some people, this one was just documenting failrly well.