Apollyon vs Astrea

I think it's time to discuss these two women. Since her reveal, many have called Astrea the new Apollyon, or an Apollyon cosplayer. She seems similar...right down to appearance. But is she? Who is the better villainess? Does Astrea surpass the OG warlord of the Blackstone Legion, who restarted the faction war single handed? Or does she pale in comparison? Is the Order of Horkos really as devastating and threatening as the Blackstone Legion?
Let's find out!
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[@wolfram018]

Ngl i've already watched this video at least 7 times in the last 2 days while Also watching a lot of the other ones and i gotta admit this Is One of the best channels here on KZbin and in the for Honor community

[@RavenKnightYT]

You do me too much honor.

[@wolfram018]

@@RavenKnightYT you 100% deserve it

[@coomgod3098]

@@RavenKnightYT man's speaking facts tho

[@Sheff_D_]

@@RavenKnightYT its true tho you help many people understand the lore, yet also have the weight, engagingness, and emotion behind what you say and how you explain stuff.

[@yagurainuzuka]

@@RavenKnightYT I like really had to process what you said. And now it makes sense. Astrea wanted power. Apollyon war. She calculated every step from Ashfeld to fighting Emperor's champion. Meanwhile Astrea wanted to be ruler. Please tell me that's what I'm getting so I don´t look more stupid I already am.

[@Hadras7094]

Astrea forced her enemies into doing what she wanted. Apollyon manipulated her enemies into wanting to do her will.

[@gabrielarchangel2658]

The best part, and the biggest difference i see is... Apollyon's "enemies" didnt even realize they were doing exactly what she wanted.

[@Hadras7094]

@@gabrielarchangel2658 She "recruited her enemies to the cause" ;)

[@wtimu6945]

Exactly..... I think often that if the factions never cared or did anything about appolyons “triggers” than she woulda moved on and find another place to wage war. What’s genius about appolyon is that she understands that war can be healthy for civilizations. Not war for forever, but to rekindle the fighting spirit.

[@t7mf]

@@gabrielarchangel2658 Apollyon was a fucking genius

[@blake3631]

@@t7mf Augustus himself would be impressed

[@liamodahl1205]

Y'see, Astrea is the Kylo Ren to Apollyon's Darth Vader.

[@peanutlad3003]

Yes that is exactly it

[@erikfaru9780]

Basically.

[@Pal6283]

Yes

[@shiveredmytimber3148]

Astrea when somebody betray her: *TRAITOOOR*

[@ItsVenti]

MOAAAAR

[@shalashaska69420]

apollyon: “im racist when i need to be.” astrea: “im racist and nobody can stop me.”

[@shadowofhawk55]

Good analogy

[@discountplaguedoctor88]

Except for the fact that that's not how racism works, it works as an analogy.

[@shalashaska69420]

@@discountplaguedoctor88 either way both are bad 💀

[@kotamiwusaki9069]

Loser

[@kotamiwusaki9069]

@@shalashaska69420 loser

[@LockheedC-130HerculesOfficial]

I feel like if Apollyon came back to see what Astrea was doing in her name she'd be disgusted

[@thekindlykobold]

@JAMES COBURN I don't think she's an impersonator, I think she is like a communist dictator, not truly believing in what is said, but using it to climb to power.

[@MeisterSchwabbo]

@JAMES COBURN i think the time the corruption came to heathmoore, it got ruined, they could have done so much good work with the order of horkos, but they failed... they failed totally

[@blackskulldigital]

She'd probably join chimera.

[@Major_Ursa]

@@blackskulldigital She’d probably do it only to defeat Astrea, like an uneasy alliance of sorts

[@swolzer]

i feel like apollyon is actually wise and astrea is just some wannabe thinking war is fun lets kill for fun. basicly vader, kylo ren

[@magosd0minus]

I always interpreted "the weak" as the cowardly warriors, and wannabe soldiers, not as the common people.

[@looserdruid6434]

the weak in apollyons eyes are people who give up and stop fighting when they are defeated

[@Timebomb_19]

The common people can both be sheep or wolves. But peace makes these terms redundant as the weak and the strong are treated as equals, and evil cowards can rise to become kings. This is why Apollyon strives for war, because it separates the good from the bad, the sheep from the wolves. Not just in soldiers but in civilians as well.

[@seqks154]

@@looserdruid6434 i feel like the weak in her eyes is when someone wants peace. being weak to apollyon is about someone’s ideals and their mindset. not in strength or having dominant abilities.

[@kaijuslayer3334]

For Apollyon. That’s what she thinks the weak is. For Astrea, it almost seems like anyone who isn’t a warrior deserves death.

[@thesaviorofsouls5210]

Appolyon protects, she even says that she will have to be brave for them. She's against the warriors with power and strenght, but refuse to use it. Thats how everyone she knew and loved died and her village burned. She would not let it happen again, but sadly she could not prove that she was better than the lawbringer that left their village to die. She tried but failed.

[@jamessullivan317]

"You don't *fight* the weak! You subjugate them!" Spoken like a true Overlord omg 😂

[@stephtros9029]

Its hard to get taxes if the peasants are dead lol

[@johnderat2652]

Timestamp?

[@samos343guiltyspark]

Better than fighting them

[@HarmNHammer]

14:06

[@matteolesina8952]

Sounds like an Omni-Man quote, reminds me of his Mortal Kombat line: "Peace isn't sought, it's enforced."

[@everythingwithashton5876]

Apollyon is my favorite villain in Media. Strong, Evil, Motivated and most of all She knows what she’s doing. Not to mention arous-

[@PhoneyLoki]

*laughs in Pagan Min*

[@Aodhan_Raith]

Mercy got to the homie, Apollyon sicced her on him.

[@bruhski136]

@@PhoneyLoki pagan min, Vaas, Joseph are all awesome. New dawn was a let down.

[@PhoneyLoki]

@@bruhski136 I haven't played New Dawn I've heard it's not very interesting

[@bruhski136]

@@PhoneyLoki it was. Trust me. Just a copy paste of 5 but even worse

[@noethics2152]

*Apollyon to Astrea be like* : _"You were never one of us. You were nothing but a usurper, a false idol."_

[@WinterKlyfox]

This fits so well.

[@murasakilancelot7909]

LMAO

[@sir-reynauld-the-kleptomaniac]

Apollyon after coming back somehow: "There is much talk, and I have listened, through rock and metal and time. Now I shall talk, and you shall listen."

[@noethics2152]

@@sir-reynauld-the-kleptomaniac Gravemind's words still gives me chill till this day... Even though I haven't got the chance to play Halo.

[@Veldazandtea]

Apollyon doesn't want you to be "us" remember. "I" am war. She speaks for herself. It almost sounds like she might say something like that, but she's a "me" person. Not a "You" person. She only goes "you" when asking.

[@16minutesinspace]

When you describe Astrea twisting Apollyon's ideals to further her own ends, I get the feeling most people will see this as a shortcoming of her character. But personally I find it really interesting. The idea of someone taking a villain's ideals that they knew were popular, and using them to help themselves is pretty clever. It makes Astrea more complex, not simpler. She's taking something that she knew worked in the past, and using it again as a tool to help herself. If twisting another villain's ideals and motivations to help yourself achieve power isn't villainy, I don't know what is. It makes Astrea seem sacrilegious in a way, almost disgusting, and I love it. A villain using another villain's beliefs purely for their own benefit is cutthroat

[@RavenKnightYT]

Oh, for sure!! I don’t think Astrea is a bad villain to follow, nor do I think her approach makes her less fascinating. I just think Apollyon was more engaging to me because I had never seen an ideology like hers out into practice. Astrea is still a complex character and her goals unique as well as interesting. Apollyon just was the originator to me, and it’s hard not to adore what Apollyon began so we could even have Astrea in the first place.

[@16minutesinspace]

@@RavenKnightYT Definitely, I still like Apollyon more. And I for sure agree that Apollyon would hate her, but I also bet my life that Astrea wouldn't even care

[@fallenghost1760]

Kylo Ren basically

[@Religous152]

@@fallenghost1760 I just said that out loud before looking at the replies

[@alexandrelessard7168]

tyrany grows from the indoctrinated. Apollyon died a long time ago and her belief was difficult to understand for some, i think it would be natural for astrea to pick up the mantle but modifying it to suit her own views,not being a perfect copy of apolyon because that is impossible to copy the persona of someone like apollyon she lied to everyone in order to achieve her goal keeping most of her toughts to herself, i think astrea does not fully understand apollyon beliefs and misinterpreted most of them or twisted them to suit her own views.

[@medieval8893]

The new story writer doesn’t know what she’s working with most of the time anyway, so I‘m not surprised

[@frantisekvyskocil1415]

Even though she is not really new and this lore is better than the nonexistent one we had prior to that (Talking about how the lore just ended with the campaign)

[@eliotmashwitz8270]

Well, I like the path that the lore is getting. Even with the silvan magic thing I think is pretty much a good sequel.

[@karsten3360]

She's an idiot put it simply The reason people liked this game so much in the first place because it was mostly realistic (in game sense) with aspects of mystical elements Now it's just flipped on its head with ha ha magic rock go brrrr and atrocious balancing of heroes

[@zayn1173]

I honestly like the path it's taking in terms of lore. Sure, Astrea is just a poor immitation of Apollyon but I think it's better than having the same thing over again. Plus it makes for good analysis like this video, it truly helps us understand how good of a villain Apollyoon actually is

[@MeisterSchwabbo]

@@zayn1173 yes but dude, the time the corruption came to heathmoore the lore went down.

[@mal1362]

Astrea was never truly meant to be Apollyon. I saw this very early in one simple statement: "the God horkos told Astrea to continue Apollyons work." that simple statement told me all I needed to know. astrea isn't Apollyon she never intended to be Apollyon (nor is she a die hard Apollyon fan girl, so I agree that they wouldnot like eachother much their ideals share the same base but their end goals are very different), But to use Apollyons ideals to please her God and in my opinion to prove to herself that she is capable of creating a world fit for the truest heroes, because it states in a lore order "Astrea did not hate gryphon and the alliance. She saw them as tools to test and strengthen her ranks. The last obstacle before the coming of a new era for the most deserving warriors of heathmore" it is her belief that "some are born to rule while others were meant to serve." "A constant struggle was the only way to keep the strongest at their rightful place" me personally I'm glad Astrea isn't a copy and paste Apollyon, it gives her a chance to become her own character, but atlas the game writer isn't the best so I doubt she'll be able to write astrea in way that makes her become her own character that would satisfy the fan base

[@looserdruid6434]

you forgot one thing. FUCK GRYPHON

[@SquibblerDibbler]

Word

[@Hotmosis]

Perfectly explained 👌🏾..

[@bl00dth1rsty9]

1 if she is the opposite of Apollyon then why dose she sound, look and act like she was trying to be her? 2 her idea is stupid if she thinks being a warrior makes you strong then when she would be Finished with her conquest there wouldn’t need to be warriors because there would be no war.

[@mal1362]

@@bl00dth1rsty9 I never said she was the opposite of Apollyon. she's just not a Carbon copy, and if you think the Astrea set looks like Apollyons set then I honestly don't know what to tell you and look at her emotes sure there's definitely a few that pay homage to Apollyon but alot of them you would not see Apollyon doin. That's why I said that she wasn't meant to be Carbon Apollyon and that she adds her own twist to what Apollyon did. In my opinion what would happen if astrea accomplishes her mission the strong would fight eachother to become the strongest of them all thus creating eternal war. Astrea wants the strongest to rule she never said specifically who that strongest should be

[@shadowboifun]

"I am not the darkness, I just reminded you the darkness was always there" OMG THAT LINE WAS BEAUTIFUL

[@derekfoster4499]

Astrea is Jared Leto joker and Apollyon is Heath Ledger Joker. It’s not about the strong and the weak, it’s about sending a message.

[@tejisalas]

thats actually really accurate

[@astrocosmicalDude]

The Virgin Horkos Fan vs. The Chad Idealist War Enjoyer

[@theratking185]

Vs. The sigma male chimera follower

[@JJHughes2000]

Astrea see's Apollyon's ideals at face value, which I think is a bi-product of apollyons death leaving astrea with no mentor. She pursues goals that Apollyon may have, but she doesn't have the full context to them and has to assume why Apollyon did them, a perfect example being the separating the weak from the strong, Apollyon did it because she wanted the strongest of each faction to go to war with each other, Astrea does it because she thinks she's supposed to amass an army like Apollyon's black stone legion. Similarly she may have never questioned Apollyon's previous crusades against the other factions and assumed Apollyon loved war and just wanted to conquer all.

[@RavenKnightYT]

A very astute point!

[@theorcamafia]

A student with no teacher will always fail even if they know what to do

[@Veldazandtea]

Astrea is trying if nothing else. Amafia is wrong in their statement. You can learn on your own. Just takes longer. You also don't learn unless you make mistakes.

[@the_gdog_2374]

Apolyons idea with the Vikings being that you burn all their food they rallied together you burn some of it and they will fight each other for the scraps makes sense with this the order for horkos took everything over and tried to make or continue some perpetual war in so resistance has risen and will likely attempt to defeat them

[@Hadras7094]

Good catch. Astrea failed exactly where Apollyon succeeded

[@nicholastorres8983]

You deserve the entire for honor community watching your videos

[@looserdruid6434]

eh maybe not the spammers and the gryphons less not forget the baby kensi's OH OH AND THE WEEBS

[@emerald_lord2267]

Holden: "I'm betraying you! Heres a catapult!" Apollyon: "Bout time tin man!"

[@praetorian9823]

I feel like it’s more Apollyon POTENTIALLY could’ve been one of the best villains in media. She genuinely was a big threat. She knew how to manipulate people, she could fight, and while there were a couple bullshit moments where she should’ve dropped from the stab wound, she was still an incredible villain for what little time she had. It also sucks because she’s the first female villain in a long time that I (personally) have seen. She was a great example of character first, characterization second. But then they killed her way too quickly. It honestly upsets me, looking back, with the right writers, she had the potential to be even better than Vaas or Pagan Min, yet she dies in a 4 hour campaign.

[@thekirbycrafter7229]

In the end though, she wins anyway. Usually when the villian dies, either everything gets better or a power vacuum appears. However, this time, her end goals are accomplished anyway. idk about you, but nothing seems more badass than still winning after your death.

[@praetorian9823]

@@thekirbycrafter7229 that is true, but I’m saying I just wish she had more screen time. She had so much potential left to expand on her that was wasted, it sucks.

[@nathancurnutt8074]

@@praetorian9823 I mean where else could she have gone? She did exactly what she wanted to do. Apollyon basically went to the three factions, kicked their hornet nests then sat in her castle and waited knowing that a true wolf was going to come and kill her. I doubt she knew exactly which faction's warrior would be the one to do the job, but she knew she was going to die that day and the great war she wanted would begin. Hell I bet the reason she let the player warden dessert like they did was purely because she thought they would make a uprising against her after seeing that innocent viking storehouse get destroyed like that.

[@praetorian9823]

@@nathancurnutt8074 again, it’s more the length. You’re absolutely right that she couldn’t really have gone much further if anywhere, but I wish we had more of that fighting, more of that time. That was my problem.

[@winstonlewis5630]

@@praetorian9823 i personally think he length is just fine everything after is just saturation cause she completes evo she wanted to do

[@thekirbycrafter7229]

The dichotomy of leadership: the false leader, too arrogant and lustful for power (and in astrea's case quite possibly insane since she is basically a cultist), and a true leader, proud but not overbearing, and only wants to see their ideals to the end. Whether they were good or bad ideals does not matter. This is why I love the Apollyon vs. Astrea comparison. They're both good in their own right, and they do what they do best. One is tyrannical and lustful who really makes you want to wish she would die to bring the violence to its end. The other is clever and idealistic, someone you know should die, but is too interesting to make that choice easy. And in the end, Apollyon will always win, for she accomplished her goals even after death. That's the perfect martyrdom (if Apollyon even cared for religion). What will happen to Astrea if she dies? All of her work will fall, and her goals will be destroyed. A disgrace to her own religion she fought for. A perfect story of two sides of the same coin.

[@RavenKnightYT]

Couldnt have put it better myself. ^^ Well said.

[@lvccxs]

No wonder why Y4S2 is called "Tyranny"

[@Blue-df3zz]

That's why horkos needs to divide into different sects

[@Veldazandtea]

I smell your fear.

[@LuckyRider-wh1wr]

I could be wrong but I feel like Apollyon wanted to die. It just bugs me that the orochi beat her, even he/she says apollyon is more skilled. I also feel like as long as she was alive the factions would unite so when she died they wouldn't have a common enemy and fight each other

[@roninthe47th93]

She knew the only way to create the divison was they fought each other. It comes down to the saying a house divided cannot stand, which if you are unfamiliar with it means in this context if she waged a war against like Astra they would unite however if she divided them they will be thrown into an eternal war. The three leaders said right at the end that what was done cannot easily be forgiven if memory servers. I'm sure she knew she wouldnt be able to escape for sure but that wasn't her goal becuase upon death she becomes war

[@read4960]

I really think that the orochi shugoki ayu and momiji should have all fought appolyon at once but they were all killed except orochi who eventually killed her

[@GeistDrachen]

@@read4960 I don’t think they were all killed. Ayu the Kensei survives and Okuma is a big tough lunkhead so I doubt he’s going down.

[@LuckyRider-wh1wr]

@@GeistDrachen If no one got em his age did

[@read4960]

@@GeistDrachen I don’t mean that they were killed I mean they could 1v4 gank appolyon on there own and slowly be killed off in cutscenes until appolyon leaves an opening trying to kill ayu or something

[@TheAvgCrusader]

And this is why I will always follow Apollyon.

[@johnnyboy949]

Same here fellow BlackStone

[@thekindlykobold]

@@johnnyboy949 That's the reason I so badly want to get to rep 7 with Astrea, so I can literally change my character model INTO Apollyon.

[@saltem_temptaviste]

@@thekindlykobold same here! But I'm rep 11 and I still can't find the right pieces to make the Apollyon cosplay :,(

[@thekindlykobold]

@@saltem_temptaviste I'm so sorry, my guy. Save up some scavenger crates, I have 14 for when I make it to 7, I'm on rep 4 Level 10 right now.

[@saltem_temptaviste]

@@thekindlykobold I have a few, I might try to use some and hopefully get my Apollyon pieces with the right perks

[@BuffBisexual]

Actually, touching up on Astrea’s misuse of Apollyon’s phrases/actions, she fucks it up even more as, to quote Apollyon, “Do you know how to tell predator from prey? You can’t of course, unless you see them in war” meanwhile Astraea is waging war on all of the weak, while not being abled to tell who is weak and who’s not immediately.

[@jormungandrrework4899]

The way I see it she was supposed to carry apollyons legacy but that didn't happen she just brought war and apollyon wouldn't like that

[@idontwanttobehornyijustwan6335]

I think what would make Astrea more appealing is knowing who she was before took on the role of Apollyon. Where she came from. How she knew who Apollyon was. Why she looked up to her visions. Etc...

[@edoardoluppi6455]

@Jonathan Holman really? Well, that's interesting to know

[@bl00dth1rsty9]

Jonathan Holman i smell a Mary suuuuue

[@theguy9041]

@Jonathan Holman me and my buddy were playing co-op arcade and we actually beat her, only for it to still say that we lost lmao

[@deadmeme902]

@@bl00dth1rsty9 I mean by that logic any boss you’re not supposed to beat the first time is a Mary Sue

[@bl00dth1rsty9]

dead meme she amassed a army to take on ALL of the factions convinced a battle monk knight self assumed grim reaper samurai which doesn’t really have a motivation to stay a insane cultist viking and i don’t even know what zanhu is to fight along side her and for however many years ruled unquestioned until a resistance built up out of nowhere and soon after backup by chimera and now are getting challenged.

[@daubenyimpostor8566]

I did think if Apollyon was still alive, she would have join chimera alliance and fought Astrea.

[@revengance4149]

I doubt it.Its like Raven said,she wouldn‘t like the Chimera eighter she was against peace after all.But she would hate Astrea even more.Maybe she would get emotional because Astrea is an insult to her legacy and therefore team up with Chimera but just on a short term. Ps:Sorry for the grammar im German and my englisch is not perfect:)

[@karurosuh]

@@revengance4149 Chimera doesn’t believe in peace either, they just don’t like tyrants or being ruled by someone evil

[@revengance4149]

@@karurosuh Thanks for the Info. Wasn‘t realy in this topic;)

[@looserdruid6434]

hell no she would kill astrea and turn the war around Apollyon would never join peace fighters

[@zebaguettefromfrance1287]

@@looserdruid6434 Chimera as an entity isn't fighting for peace, they're fighting to remove the tyrant. Like cross said: "Peace is just a word not worth dying for"

[@comrade2666]

Heathmoore: has constant war for 1000 years with no end in sight Apollyon: this is too peaceful

[@shadowofhawk55]

Apollyon was operating when the war was in a lull, with only minor viking raids to stimulate them

[@mycodenameism4331]

The more you think about it, the more For Honor’s lore and characters are more interesting that what you initially thought.

[@mycodenameism4331]

@@elijahwilson7779 probably what we already have, but better fleshed out.

[@fabianwafler5586]

Honestly, apollyon really deserves a film trilogy, this would be insane!!!

[@english3175]

yes like the star war trilogy

[@jimjim696]

@@english3175 not sequels doe ha

[@Leader237]

Apollyon is honestly the reason I feel I love this game the way I do. The core combat is excellent, the concept of For Honor is great, and while the story was a coin toss, Apollyon was the constant peak. Everything with her was golden, and she deserves to be talked about next to Vas and other great video game villains. I do hope we get more lore and story of these two, Astrea is entertaining in her own right

[@adekaiwamisou]

Your content is the reason why I have grown to appreciate the story and lore of for honor.

[@morte2504]

I don't think Apollyon is a villain, rather an antihero. In the end she aimed to preserve her own people in a very conflicted time of a very conflicted world. Astrea abolished a chance for peace, which is what makes the difference. When Apollyon delivers her last few lines before her death, there's a slight tone of regret or grief to it, at least in my opinion. I'm curious how would Apollyon react if she lived to see the Truce of Wyverndale, maybe she would even embrace it herself. That'd be an interesting turn of events and could be a foundation for an interestic redemption arc. That is of course, if she would've survived.

[@RobertWilliams-hj8rr]

They might just bring her back since they have definitely gotten into the more mythical themes in for honor story.

[@szczurnik3334]

Even then we were just smacking her full plate armour with a katana so I'm sure a half competent field medic would've sufficed to save her life.

[@ubermaster134]

@@szczurnik3334 if she can take a dagger to the side then yeah

[@ubermaster134]

@@BLUEBOYISLEDGE what about an anti-villain

[@buklau837]

@@ubermaster134 what is even an anti villain?

[@dutchvanderlinde1095]

5:07 "oOOO I HAVE A BIG FLAIL WARDEN, OOOO"

[@spacetacos7574]

Tbh Id do the same if conq’s zone like that could move

[@awesomeperrymexd7180]

I'd think if Apollyon met Astrea, seeing all she did in her name, first thing said to her would be: "You wield the spirit of a wolf, but have the drive of a sheep."

[@sh1n581]

Apollyon, aka War Mommy “Please step on me”

[@apollyon1987]

Slow down a second

[@mathislevee3947]

"Tell me i'm a Sheep Warmommy"

[@praisethesun.praisedeussol6051]

@@apollyon1987 can i be your Sheep

[@The_Boss420]

I love how you said “or maybe I just look to deep into things” after dropping that bomb of a speech

[@louisdios6382]

I know apollyon is dead but now i want to see is a fight scene from apollyon vs astrea

[@DibellatrixLeStrange]

Have her come back as a ghost and FUCK HER UP

[@abbadereltitan]

Apollyon got beat by an Orochi. I love her but she doesn't stand a chance

[@DibellatrixLeStrange]

@@abbadereltitan the orochi was a champion for a reason and it's pretty much obvious she was holding back. Knowing she had to die for her plan to work

[@abbadereltitan]

@@DibellatrixLeStrange She's getting clapped. Just because you love her more doesn't mean she's stronger.

[@DibellatrixLeStrange]

@@abbadereltitan the orochi literally said she's more skilled during the fight. It's quite obvious she would win vs Astrea who's younger, less experienced, and because of her thirst to kill she's more predictable to someone like apollyon who makes calculated moves. Plus if this fight did happen, just the shock of apollyon, the person she probably looks up to, hates her and wants to kill her would probably put her in a weak mental state during the fight.

[@burkesullivan9086]

I was expecting this to be a Darth Vader vs Kylo Ren type of video, color me impressed

[@dylanstorey9015]

The only reason why i like the continued multiplayer lore of the story is because of you. You just gained me as a subscriber and yes appollyon is the superior villain in my opinion

[@soagentc7122]

Apollyon I would definitely say is a better villain than Astrea but Astrea I would say does have potential but I honestly think that potential is going to go to waste.

[@valterlassen9452]

So Apollyon is basically Darth Vader while Astrea is Kylo Ren.

[@justamadmax3849]

remember folks Chimera is an alliance. an alliance of warriors of different forces, all who in a way still have bad blood with each other, though dependable, their is a chance that they will fight each other after the death of Horkos.

[@szczurnik3334]

A thing I noticed about Apollyon is that she never monopolized the Wolves. It is clear in the way she regards Holden. I think she called him a traitor in one of the observables, but I never got the feeling that she regarded him as a betrayer. While she rejects peace, she seems not to regard either Holden, Warden or Orochi as idiots for seeking it. I find it hard to believe that she didn't hear about Warden's departure (since Story Campaign spans over a couple years), but she doesn't send anyone to deal with Him or Stone, Mercy, Cross. I don't think it just comes from the fact that she expected them to start the new War, but also out of her respect for a Wolf's choice. The only person we know Blackstone Legion hunted down that was a traitor is Daubeny, but he is allowed to escape death thanks to Trial by Combat. This could simply be an instance of Holden going against the original plan, but the word of Daubeny surviving must've gone out and, seeing how he spent many years sitting comfortably in the Knight's Arena Throne, it seems She has lost interest. And even then, Daubeny was a thief and an instance of a Sheep playing a Wolf, so he's irrelevant. I have never got the feeling of respect towards people who think different than Astrea from Her. Gryphon has already proven he's not a Sheep, Apollyon wouldn't allow a Sheep to be so high in command (again, she hates Sheep playing Wolves), but Astrea is convinced, or convincing her soldiers that he is a Sheep and more commonly that he is weak, which as we all should know by now, is not true. And I don't think that's a flaw either, it's understandable that she would be different from Apollyon. It's just that every time I see someone bend somebody else's legacy to fit their own narrative, I can only thing that it's predatory and disgusting (2 words that fit Astrea so yeah). And also, this is a really good video, keep up the good work.

[@alienking3231]

All I’m gonna say is gryphon is a sheep he betrayed his master second he was banished from the lawbringer club because of his betrayal so he had to go and find new frends to help him and to be honest all of your talk is solid gold

[@jimjim696]

@@alienking3231 true

[@christophervaughan7416]

Yeah, but now Daubeny has literally saved Holden Cross' life. He has been restored and, in mission text-type things, has been made a great fighter. Also made it high-up on the ladder of the Blackstone legion, better than can be said for most, no?

[@szczurnik3334]

I agree, right now Daubeny seems to be a formidable warrior. Makes you wonder if he was that way before his comeback, just decided to not show it. I believe Daubeny may be considered a wolf right now, but Apollyon stated you can differentiate between Wolves and Sheep only by seeing them in combat. So, for me to be sure, Daubeny would have to get off that chair for once.

[@christophervaughan7416]

@@szczurnik3334 True that, he's either on the chair or keeping *them* off the walls.

[@spartimarti9208]

this is giving me real Darth Vader and Kylo Ren vibes

[@kingmikeygaming9058]

I love the evilness to Astrea she’s a badass but ur right Apollyon is the scary one because she’s not just evil she’s smart she has a purpose to her acts Astrea just wants to kill and seek power 💯

[@CaptDuty491]

You know what would be really cool. What if dragonite has the ability to allow the user to speak to the dead and choose who to speak to. We can have it where Astrea speaks to Apollyon and Apollyon speaks back to her and says the things you've said in the video. But it can only be achieved by waiting for a special event, when the moon turns red. Making halloween a lot more canon

[@wtimu6945]

Imagine if this was a three way war? Appolyon actually survives and sees what astrea is doing and joins chimera? I’m reality I just want more appolyon

[@jimjim696]

I don't think Appolyon would join any side because she wouldn't want peace but she also wouldn't want to have Astrea around because Astrea is going against what Appolyon stood for

[@karurosuh]

i think it would be better if she stayed dead. I like her as the “ancient warlord from the past” kind of villain with astrea still alive.

[@ladyward3n707]

I just want to say..thank you. I have been defending Apollyon’s views how she sees life and others just see her has the bad guy but she had a purpose and you explain it so well. I have a love hate with Astrea because its like shes perverting Apollyon’s legacy. Just thank you so much. This had me tearing up

[@amos_fr6070]

My favorite part of the video is when that one soundtrack of Hellsing is used near the end, "To The Night Of the War". With how close the Major and Apollyon are, it fit very well and add an even deeper feeling of Dominance over Astrea. But in the end, to talk about the video, what we are left to wonder is: Is that the goal of the writer? Does the writer really want to bring a false Apollyon and will play along that in the future of the story and explain how it's because her view is distorted from Apollyon that it will bring her downfall, or, was it almost completely random and they just thought "hey female armor apollyon go brrrr". That being said, I would LOVE if some of soldiers that were in the ranks of the Blackstone Legion that joined Astrea would see how wrong she is about Apollyon's ideals and from that either try to overthrow her or, hell, maybe even join Chimera. But right now really the only thing I see for the future is that Y5S4 will be in the start or middle of the cataclysm, and Y6 will bring back "OG" For Honor. Just imagine if after all those stories about Draconite, clans, beliefs etc... everything just crumble down like it did 1000 years ago. And as we start up the game in Y6S1, the only thing to see in the background would be a devastated field with a puddle of water on the ground as a symbolic of the very first reason they all started to fight. Really, to me, that would be the best thing they could do. Reset everything.

[@MsLeVagabon]

been wandering how they could save the infinite potential lore that was wasted with this horkos/chimera thing and you nailed it perfectly. A new cataclysm resetting it all, they could even bring the wu lin on the battle map for funsies (tho useless I thought it would be cool) love the idea of the puddle, very good throwback

[@sneazel1013]

This line from an anime kinda describes Apollyon and Astrea. “This new rage consumes everything like a calm deep sea. His old rage would have destroyed everything in his path.”

[@tarndarckblack318]

Going with that vision of how Astrea is compared to Appolyon and how she would probably hate her for pretending to follow her plan but in a way she would probably despise, actualy makes me even more happy that i went back to get all my knights to look like Blackstone again because it brings me my own touch on a Blackstone legion remnant group going against Horkos not to stop them for peace or anything like that but to actualy save Appolyon's true ideology. With that said great video i am really liking your content, i only recently been watching your videos a lot and will surely continue to do so, your making amazing content and not just for For Honor keep it up !

[@martialfarts4509]

I gotta say, I never thought for honor’s villains and lore had such deep ideals and methods, thank you for showing it, I now have a lot more appreciation for Apollyon.

[@Bryguygaming-dx4xh]

This made me take a complete 180 in my loyalty,before I was with the order of horkos but now I’m with the chimera to honor Apollyon

[@blakegeorge2459]

You know I never really thought about all of this when it came to the two characters but this makes a lot of sense. Great video! Love your channel! 🤘🏻🔥

[@STEELZ2000]

As unlikely, cliche and maybe characteristically unlikely it would be, this video makes me wish that Apollyon somehow survived and had lied low for years, and then joins forces with Gryphon to attempt to take Astrea down.

[@her0880]

I highly doubt that apollyon would ever team up with holden, if she were still alive she would be pulling strings from the shadows or watching the world burn due to to the civil war.

[@midnightshield160]

@@her0880 I think it would be hilarious if Astrea comes back to her camp or something and Apollyon is just there and just gives some good old insults and crumbles Astrea's world before besting the shit out of her

[@kevintimmer2219]

There is so much emotion in your words, i love it ♡

[@fridriksoebech4330]

Never really thought of for honors story like that but this made me love it a 100% more. Great vid man def got my sub for that.

[@calitriestes9155]

I wish Apollyon didn’t die or like she came back to kick the shit out of Astrea

[@18DDG]

I swear this is one of the best for honor explaining videos ive ever seen totally deserves more subs and views

[@stephen4301]

It’s been a WHILE since I’ve played For Honor, but it’s moments like THIS where I wish that they had something similar to MK voice/opening lines in the 1v1. I seriously want to hear Apollyon just.... tear into Astrea. She’s always been my favorite For Honor character and part of the reason I picked it back up after... 2-3 years (granted I fell back out of playing it but that’s hopefully going to change when I have the time). Anyway, great video! One of the few times I’m happy about YTs algorithm. Have a great day!!!!!

[@Crispyyp]

OMG!! This is soo spine chilling, I love how he explains things, Apollyon is my favorite villain of all, I'll always follow Apollyon

[@Native_Beats_]

This makes me wanna play it for the story now. I hadn't realized it had a story like this

[@Hotmosis]

Excellent video!! Looking forward to the next one 🔥🔥🔥

[@awolcorndog1692]

This was dope. Glad it popped up I’m my recommended.

[@onur97able]

Apollyon is what the real world needs right now

[@GeistDrachen]

In a way you're not wrong. In fact a little bit of both Apollyon and Astrea is kinda what the world needs. For one the weak leaders of the world who are corrupt deserve to be punished accordingly for their crimes, but at the same time we cannot kill the weak.

[@brob3003]

This is a statement that I oddly agree with

[@mkgaming5823]

@@GeistDrachen No, because in this world where money rules the strong are the ones who are corrupt. So it would lead to a even more corrupt world.

[@kashitymerchant928]

Based

[@GeistDrachen]

@@mkgaming5823 money may be power, but action speaks louder. The weak leaders I referred to are the government officials and politicians who waste the money of the working class. The founders of big tech corporations are weak, they may silence the voices of the people but what happens when the people revolt against them? What would happen if the people were to revolt against the government, the corporations, and the mainstream media? Now I agree there'd be chaos and full blown chaos isn't what society needs. There does need to be order, but in a civil way where everyone has equal opportunity and no one has the right to deprive another of life, liberty, and property. Dangerous Freedom > Peaceful Slavery.

[@istvancsanyi1344]

I love this video. Its soo thorough and well written! I hope for more of these brilliant thoughts of yours. ^w^

[@RavenKnightYT]

You do me too much honor. Thank you so much.

[@carlthomaswilliamsjr.2995]

I LOVE THIS THEME AND SUBSCRIBED TO YOU BECAUSE OF IT! 13:13

[@SourDonutLid]

This sounds very philosophical and can be analyzed philosophically dude this is just amazing

[@BohrokKiller]

There is a reason Apollyon is my favorite villain of all time

[@Neptune0404]

I never thought that much about it...but yeah, I you're right... and I love it

[@ngohuy621]

Your videos are so deep man, I... I really love them, nice work!

[@RavenKnightYT]

Thank you! ^^

[@ltportela]

Never thought about for honor lore like this. Never put so much thought into it. Nice job. Great analysis

[@KaijuC0bra]

Great video, keep it up! Congrats to 2k subs btw

[@spartan1572]

Something about this guy makes me want to watch his video even when I've wanted to play for honor the entire time. Well done

[@danhitrec1606]

Bro, the Light music kicking in is perfection!!

[@MGELIJAHOG]

You got me subscribed this video was everything I hoped for

[@lewdpeacekeeper]

The original "gamers rise up" ~Apollyon

[@Sansho42069]

This isn't the usual for honor content, I like it

[@Rinuvan001]

Very solid points, Good sir. I will say, I have never thought about the possibilities of what would happen if Apollyon would have met Astrea and I must say I love the end theory.

[@holywhitelie5545]

Bro this was amazing put together!

[@AutisticMan2004]

I like to think that this is why warmongers have chimera based armor and such, because they also realized these points and were , like apollyon would be, disgusted and so they betrayed horkos to Chimera to purge their order of its false prophet.

[@toucan4075]

I never realized how incredibly well written apollyon is Awesome video, man

[@RavenKnightYT]

Thank you!

[@Dmorrison931]

This was so interesting and mind blowing, definitely subscribing!

[@Coletonpitman]

Can we acknowledge this man makes it sound like a documentary and its so nice to listen to his voice

[@breakeroutlaw9959]

I would like to hear Gryphon (holden cross) story and encounter Astrea from her evilness.

[@wasteofspace9496]

They need to bring Apollyon back to just cut down or cast out Astrea

[@shiveredmytimber3148]

no because astrea is a hero

[@spicysalad3013]

@@shiveredmytimber3148 um what

[@shiveredmytimber3148]

@@spicysalad3013 a playable character is called a hero in the game

[@spicysalad3013]

@@shiveredmytimber3148 then they could bring back apollyon as a hero too but that would be really weird

[@shiveredmytimber3148]

@@spicysalad3013 you can pretend you're Apollyon with the Apollyon armor

[@rigulur]

Your content is great and your soundtrack choice is patrician

[@Retropixles]

Such a well done and explained video great job dude.

[@bioraidos5454]

Astrea seems like the type of character that acts as a pupil or admires Apollyon and wanted to continue her work, but misunderstood her message and ideals. The type of character thinks she is doing what her master, her idol would do, but completely missed the mark on what she did, what she meant, what her message was. That's why she fights similarly to her, why she looks like her, why she preaches about War. She thinks she is following in Apollyon's footsteps but is in fact completely wrong

[@HumanOfEarth81]

Apollyon is the superior Villain. This video inspired me so much and reminded me of why I love and always will love For Honor. For all it's bullshit and cracks in the lore, it tells a story, and it's a great one. I never really put much thought into Apollyon's character back in my first, or even second play-through of the game's main storyline, but this video really shed the light for me on how complex and well written as a villain she actually is. You're right, Apollyon is the superior villain and you're also right in saying that a good villain isn't just someone who ruins lives and kills babies. A good villain is someone you can understand, even through all the bad shit they do. A good villain is someone you can respect past all the heartache and misery they've caused. Apollyon is one of those villains. I have created something of my own medieval world in my head that I hope to make into games, books and watchable content one day and this just inspired me greatly to create a likeable villain. A villain you can respect. Thanks so much man, you are fantastic and a great storyteller.

[@McShieldBash]

keep making more of these!

[@oldmanjankens1618]

Holy crap you explaining apolyon sent shivers down my spine

[@luizfellipe3291]

What if the writers make a way to Astrea resurrects Appolyon through _dRaCoNiTe mAgIc_ . Imagine what kind of sh1t it would cause. I sincerely wish they don't do that.

[@bl00dth1rsty9]

I would like to see that if only to see Apollyon stare at her and then say “I’d rather have peace then people dealing under your lacking rule .”

[@alexanderhellgren754]

Astrea: can i copy your armor? Apollyon: sure just don't make it too obvious that you copied Astrea:

[@loganallen5486]

Raven I gotta say you probably won’t see this, but I have been through a lot of KZbinrs that explain lore on multiple various games I have to say by far you are the most detailed an accurate KZbinr I have ever had the pleasure of listening to keep making video

[@carterbacon6232]

This channel definitely needs more subs

[@blandie9516]

Dude , you deserve much more support than this

[@vimonarchiv7433]

I love the lore, but I'm just more happy that I'm now able to have a "black knight" with a giant 2 hand broad sword lmao.

[@maa3563]

Men, i heard about this game ones but i think that your vid was oasom! I got somethink out of your video and thank you. You are a great narrator

[@RavenKnightYT]

I appreciate that! Thank you.

[@masonmerris2711]

Having it all layed out like this is amazing and I see your point about their differences. Also ironically or Unironically Astrea’s (Ast-reea) name is a pronunciation variant of a Greek goddess of justice named Astrea (Ast-ray-a)