APS DIF-CIWS: FLAK vs HE vs Kinetic, Which is best? - From the Depths Empirical Testing

Recently we have noticed DIF guns are becoming one of the most popular types of CIWS to deal with big incoming CRAMs and large/huge missiles, but are the Kinetic variant of the 500mm APS DIF gun best, or is it the AoE High Explosive or FLAK DIF gun the best against targets?
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[@changjared2600]

brain: gotta go to sleep its 1 am youtube: APS DIF-CIWS: FLAK vs HE vs Kinetic, Which is best? brain: well, well, well, lets find out

[@GMODISM]

sorry hahhaaha

[@BorderWise12]

Just so you know: explosion radius in FtD is capped at about 35 meters. You can't really have explosions that have a bigger radius than that. Also if the music is annoying, I can personally vouch for turning it off and editing in royalty-free music. Allows you to set the mood better!

[@GMODISM]

wait... so there is a hard 35m cap? or is it a kinda soft cap that fades?! yeah I do that sometimes but I like some ftd songs XD

[@immort4730]

@@GMODISMiirc it’s a soft cap. The game will not generate an explosion with a larger radius for computational reasons. However if you have an explosion radius, say r>35 m and there is a craft at distance d, 35

[@GMODISM]

@@immort4730 that sounds quite reasonable and a smart way to do it

[@immort4730]

@@GMODISM the reason for this is that when HE computes damage it implements a “rebound effect”. That is, if the explosive damage is not enough to break a block, a portion of the damage is rerouted to the weakest block in its radius, meaning you can potentially overpressure through certain material. This means system is meant to make APHE systems stronger but is computationally costly. The 35m limit mainly targets this system.

[@PoweredByGreed_]

While it is possible to use breadboard to hold fire on weapons controller, the best and most reliable way by far is to have a second CIWS controller with relaxed ruleset, lower priority and no firerate. So, for exemple, you would have your normal CIWS controller setup with rules such as "Ignore outside 0-200m" and then, you would have a "Tracker" CIWS controller block with something like "Ignore outside 0-1000m" , -500 priority and 0 firerate. This will line up your CIWS to projectile that are within 1000m but will not fire and if they enter the 200m range, the higher priority controller kick in and will engage , increasing your chance to hit on the first volley. This also help with slower rotating turret and allow you to have a more rigid ruleset as you can fire only at very close projectile and forget those who would otherwise misses. As for kinetic CIWS shell, shouldnt you have atleast 20 ap to deal full dmg to missile and CRAM? Its kind of a waste otherwise and I would personaly go for a lower gauge if I ever made KE DIF.

[@sr_aron]

Good method

[@GMODISM]

Wow that's such an amazing idea, perhaps I will have to include this in the upcoming FLAK DIF CIWS tutorial because that might be quite relevant, really good tip for better hits on slow firing CIWS! As for kinetics they should have close to 20AP as anything over that is wasted, generally I'd say 19AP is better than 21AP, undershooting yields more efficiency rather than overshooting AP values in general too. But if my AP was far below that in this video I probably made a mistake, I don't remember what it was now...

[@InsufficientGravitas]

I find that prefering low acceleration targets and restricting the maximum acceleration is useful for avoiding bad targets and getting better accuracy.

[@twinkyoctopus]

going in before the testing starts, I'm guessing Flak is going to be the best, since because it's only one shot, if the kinetic shell misses it will do zero damage, and Flak does full damage to munitions, and has a much better radius than HE

[@logicalsnorlax5641]

ah nice, some dif-ciws knowledge

[@CrayvenCarnage]

Considering how much kinetic damage that flak did on a direct hit I wonder if giving it a heavy head to amp up that direct hit damage and setting the timer to detonate slightly behind the target would deal more. Even if it misses the huge blast radius would mean very little damage lost but if it hits you deal extreme damage to it.

[@GMODISM]

Worth trying! perhaps it would be the new meta lol

[@shawnreed343]

So the testing here is simultaneously great and bad. Great in terms of finding the difference between flak and HE for DIF CIWs. Bad on the side of kinetic. DIF CIWs is never intended to be kinetic- it's just bad. Which I admit your testing proved. XD The (potential) advantage to kinetic CIWs over a flak or HE system is sustainability and the potential for a tuned sandblaster CIWS to take out an entire volley of missiles or small cram better than even a flak CIWs, though the individual damage per shot would be far lower. Also it's important to hit AP 20 for kinetic CIWs, as 20 is the AC of a shell/missile, and having less cuts the damage (afaik). The ~possible~ advantage of a kinetic CIWs system is in not running out of ammo, and thus in the long term nerfing more incoming damage than big HE/flak in those times the HE/flak can't fire because it's reloading. But the big HE/flak might be able to nerf more damage when the incoming munitions are particularly healthy, as they do a ton more damage per shot. Oh, PS- adding a mantlet will help your accuracy even more, as the system can aim with both it and the turret.

[@GMODISM]

Awesome with that matlet tip if indees adds accuracy, I had no idea doal aiming would help accuracy.. Yeah, as said I have some smaller dif ciws kinetics, but as for this test I wanted max: 500mm damage comparison to see what would be best at maxed damage. Kinetic CIWS are good but for fast fire and small shells from beltfeds... one beltfed al costs about what a dif gun cost in total...

[@shawnreed343]

@@GMODISM You're welcome. :) I also do wish I could have seen if you get more kinetic damage by having 20+ AP, or more from a lower AP but higher damage output, as you had tested. I suspect the higher AP would actually output more actual damage, but APS was just buffed so now who knows...

[@zuminlair92cp]

There's 2 different distance setting in CIWS controller. one is what you are using. And another one is "Interception distance". i believe you can hold fire if your main distance is higher than interception distance. also, you completely forgot projectile have 20 AC. Your kinetic shell deal 30% less damage which kinetic shell can do. I tried it with a 19.7AP 43398 kinetic damage shell. And it did 85.3k damage on a single missile.

[@GMODISM]

I have to investigate this interception distance! Yeah my shell could have some improvements but not in a way that would change the results, what I should have done is however to show my 120mm dif ciws that would be appropriate for kinetics

[@jasonstandlea1784]

I'm really shocked by how much kinetic the flak rod has.... makes me wonder about a strange dual-purpose shell/gun

[@GMODISM]

SAME