Aptera vs Sion vs Lightyear. SEV showdown. How do they compare?

[@deanmcmanis9398]

Very well done. Complete, informative, balanced. Kudos.

[@passivlife]

Thanks Dean.

[@MrGamelover23]

@@aussieideasman8498 of course, but that's all we have to go by for now.

[@loftsatsympaticodotc]

@@aussieideasman8498 NO, not at all, the PROTYPES all DO what is observed. so HOW on earth can a non scientist (You?) make such an erroneous sweeping ALL statement to the general clueless greater population? Oh I forgot, you're Australian, the right wing capital of the world (Sorry Trumpers, you lose to Australia),, or not... LOL

[@loftsatsympaticodotc]

@@aussieideasman8498 WelI and ~50,000 OTHERS - say. You are WROONNNGGGG ! ;-) (how about "Aussie-bereft" ;-) PS. over 50 YEARS operating light cars, motorcylces up to our own fleet of trucks and DOING THE MAINTENANCE too. PPS.. ( I am also a university grad is science, AND did tech lab work for years and still. PPPS. Oops forgot to tell you, got 100% in philosophical Logic, i.e. how to draw accurate conclusions from arguments. So submit your "proof" OR... get out of the court room!

[@machobunny1]

This was good. I've ordered an Aptera because I figured no one could beat their range and efficiency numbers, and of course, it looks like a space ship. Good to learn that I was right. Nothing actually compares to Aptera. It is a bit like a 911 Porsche; fast, beautiful, impeccably engineered, practical...in a class completely to itself.

[@dama9150]

Lovely range of research in this report, thank you. It's all about compromise. The Sion is a much more usable car than the Aptera, and obv a much more affordable car than the Lightyear (which I still love tho, and apparently the Lightyear One will be very affordable). As such, to say that the Sono is not 'built for solar panels' I think is unfair. It was, it just chose not to make the compromises that Aptera has made. I think it is a 'solar powered car'; I could easily live with a 25kms a day range for most of the year. As for 'living a life without limits', I actually see the Sono as better, as it's a more usable car.

[@jimj2683]

I am sure the next Sono will be much better. The first one looks like an unfinished prototype.

[@garydmercer]

I rarely drive more than 28 miles in any given days. I ordered the Aptera and live in S.California in the sunny desert. I anticipate that I won't be charging my car very often. I have owned my Subaru Forester for 2 years now. I have yet to have more than one passenger in it. I don't haul people around--ever. I rarely have someone else in my car with me. The two seater is perfect for me and I love the large hatch area storage. Perfect for me. The efficiency is important to me.

[@shanerobbins007]

I honestly think it would be interesting if these three companies would merge, yet keep there separate brands in tact. So they could gain traction more rapidly to market by pooling there resources and collaborating to standardizing EV charging infrastructure. With their geographies already in different locations they could hit all markets much quicker. In a few years they could become tesla's #1 rivals

[@passivlife]

Interesting idea. TBH I expect them all to be bought out by bigger manufacturers in the next five years. As soon as they prove they can carve out a slice of the market. LY and Sion are basically using ICE manufacturing companies for production. Aptera is doing more of a Tesla style stand alone process, which pressumably makes it harder to merge. They all have a lot of patents in the pipeline, I could imagine that these become their most valuable assets in the future.

[@dcbel]

Great video, really exciting to see a video comparing solar vehicles! The future of sustainable transportation is closer than ever ☀️🔌⚡🚘

[@combojerman28]

let's end all lies from the 3 clowns! the car and the whole story was designed, modeled and developed by someone else. the 3 clowns stole EVERYTHING and the inventor doesn't get any money. even if a contract has been signed.

[@mockingbird187]

The Aptera wasn't designed around using solar power. I'm sure the Lightyear was, but the Aptera was designed first and foremost around traveling through the air with as little drag as possible.

[@projectmanhattan3783]

It's 20k vs 150k... comparing a super car to a budget car

[@mockingbird187]

@@projectmanhattan3783 sadly for the Lightyear, beyond the pricetag, it specs aren't that "super." Given what we know now, it's likely the only people who would buy a Lightyear over an Aptera are those who need 3+ seats and have money to burn.

[@davesworld7961]

Yes. I think the first Apteras were gas powered. The company didn't last very long but came back years later using the original body style with electric power and solar.

[@Grant849]

Uh, no? They made it for traveling through air to add range, then made it light as possible with a smaller battery. The Co owner literally came out and explained this. No other car could benefit as much from solar because of these features. This is why you can't just slap a solar panel on a Tesla

[@mockingbird187]

@@davesworld7961 there was the 2h plug in hybrid (with gas generator) and the 2e BEV.

[@Fesslmonster]

I'll go for the Aptera. .... Lightyear is way too expensive. Sion is not efficient enough for solar.

[@forbiddenforest5327]

yep, aptera is a design classic. So exciting to look at, sit in and live with. Ppl need educating that svelte smaller cars are cool, road friendly, fast and fun!

[@davesworld7961]

I think the team that made the Lightyear is also working on a larger motorhome style vehicle with roof mounted solar panels that expand to three times regular size by being pulled out from the sides like awnings when the vehicle is parked. Seems like that approach would work for Sion with it's flat roof.

[@charangohabsburg1]

While I am ohlding a pre-order of the Aptera I also think that the inefficient aerodynamic shape of the Sion soon might be offset by skyrocketing electricity prices so that for those who need such roomy cars will not hesitate to get it. I really wish Sion to succeed (even if electricity would not become much more expensive).

[@timmurphy5541]

To me it's the Sion that "wins" because it is practical and not too expensive. The width of the Aptera means I wouldn't be able to use it in my local shop car parks and it only seats 2 so I could only imagine it as a fun second car which is something I've never been able to afford.

[@passivlife]

Yeap. The Sion is currently the most practical, its a shame the Lightyear is so expensive. I think it would have been a hands down winner had it been placed in the same price bracket.

[@ccibinel]

Different objectives. Lightyear is insanely expensive and Aptera is a solar sports car. The eventual sedan in Aptera's in 2-3 years will be an interesting comparison to the Sion since that will be far more direct competition.

[@rpf276]

It depends on your area. Is it the UK Europe or North America?

[@jamesrose1191]

Great presentation. I esp like the Aptera and have reservation for them.

[@zyloctal]

What battery config did you go with?

[@jamesrose1191]

@@zyloctal I went with 40 k battery but think I will increase at least one to 60k I want that so if on long drive can partial charge and keep going.

[@zyloctal]

@@jamesrose1191 O nice, So you ordered two of them? I wonder if you can add another batter later on?

[@mockingbird187]

@@zyloctal I was curious about this same thing. From what I understand about the company, right to repair, it's design to be upgradable throughout it's life, etc., it seems highly likely!

[@zappyeats2579]

@@mockingbird187 @tak it is not upgradable right now. They hope that future models will. You can check preoperative specs anytime before production to my understanding.

[@darkwing4475]

I think that you have worked very hard to give us a fair and unbiased review of these 3 cars,, Thanks you,, :-)

[@passivlife]

Thanks.

[@SavingGreen]

Fascinating comparison of monthly efficiencies. Great video and analysis!

[@forbiddenforest5327]

The aptera captured my imagination immediately. I dream of cities full of these beautiful lightweight naboo starfighters.

[@Salanan]

Aside from just a statement of freedom / adventurers, Aptera is the best commuter car, especially at its price point.

[@vic321344]

A three wheeled motorcycle with a footprint larger than a Hummer H1. Best commuter "car".

[@Salanan]

@@vic321344 who cares about the size?? It's all about the efficiency

[@vic321344]

@@Salanan Who cares about efficiency, if you got no parking, have a large turning radius and you are a driving roadblock.

[@n.brucenelson5920]

@@vic321344 You clearly have no experience with the vehicle. None of your assumptions are true. I have ridden in a prototype over speed bumps and in a crowded parking lot, as well as at speed and in the twisties on local roads. There is both performance and efficiency well exceeding what is available from my Gen 1 Honda Insight.

[@vic321344]

@@n.brucenelson5920 The foot print is wider than a Hummer H1. The turning radius is large. So you are a roadblock outside a 4 lane interstate.

[@evolv.e]

☀️⚡️Excellent comparative breakdown. I preordered two Aptera vehicles for my son & I and are looking forward to driving many solar powered miles over many years in them. We also opted for the camping kit as where there is sun, we may wish to travel.. no charging station required. The future looks bright indeed.

[@ezequieljimenez3391]

Wow, this is a very well made Video, we can see your work on the calculations! Thanks for this content.

[@craigarnold1212]

Very much liked your descriptions and explanations of the different approaches. The Lightyear and Aptera are based on the same principals just a different size. I could have had one of these in the aptera 250 mile version as a commuter car for construction work. It could easily haul my tools and any variety of cloths. My longest round trip was 100 miles per day and 80% of the work is schools over the summer. So the most solar potential when needed the most to reduce charging needs. I live in the western half [west of the Cascade mountain range] in Washington State. Where the average amount of sun shine is less than the German average. I wonder if the Aptera might benefit from a rolling bend of the hatch with the cells in more of a front to back rows. With very slight roll in each row of cells. From both energy production and aerodynamics. The current pattern might be more of a dimpling effect which has been effective in speed skating jersey designs, early bicycle designs with integrated clothing were much smoother. Speed skiers from SG and downhillers to true speed skiers who have been past the 110 mph barrier. Some early fabrics in the 80's were judged too dangerous when it was found that they tended to accelerate when in contact with ice.

[@ccibinel]

Interestingly based on my recent poll on the Aptera Owner group on FB only 3-4% of people want the 250 mile (sample of ~200 people voted). Almost 50% want the 400 mile and everyone else is into the "range contest". Real world will knock the numbers down a little (ie heating in winter) but the 1000 mile Aptera needs a monstrous pack almost the size of the R1T truck and serves little practical purpose.

[@passivlife]

Interesting points. I remember the dimple ski suits. Crazy sport but interesting research.

[@craigarnold1212]

@@ccibinel I agree the 1000 mile version is not so practical unless V2G or V2H was available and you have potential for a week without power. The 600 mile is boarder line to me on max range [find it hard to justify if I can not use at least a 125 DC charger but if I was really going to take it camping it would nice to power some lights, make coffee or charge devices]. It has been a long time since I drove 600 miles in a day. I am in the 400 mile camp and if I drive 300 miles I can find a 50 amp charger and have something to eat. That is really in the range that most ice cars can do and with a 125 charger you barely have enough time to order and have a sit down dinner to put 300 miles in. Something in between would be nice. Carrying around extra batteries does not make sense. When I was 14 my mother an aunt and I drove half way across the country and we did two 800 mile days between stops with relatives. That included 2 food /fuel stops. It took 12-14 hours even at 70 mph for most of it. I have looked at all my normal driving and even if I see 25% cold temp drop in range it would not create any real issue for me. But I would still like the ability to use it as backup to my house the one or two days out of 3-5 years that I may have no power. With a single power wall or similar set up you could ferry power with the Aptera from chargers near you if possible and needed. Those who see 2 to 5 days a year of blackouts could easily justify the 1000 mile pack and the potential to refill if needed. Look at all the interest in Ford and Chevy trucks with V2H. What they hopefully learn is that the home infrastructure will cost about $4000 for that to work with it and it may not work with other BEV's. As Chris likes to lament Somebody needs to set a standard!

[@mikegrok]

@@ccibinel half to 2/3 of my yearly mileage is doing a 1 day drive between mobile Alabama and Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, a 850mile to 1000 mile drive. There is a 450 mile stretch on my most common route with no level 3 chargers. My current car is a Chevy Cruze with the +5 gallons gas tank mod, (Balloon removed). I usually do the drive at 38mpg and 75mph, and stop for gas once.

[@ccibinel]

@@mikegrok non-tesla networks definitely have some gaps but improvements are being made. Here in Canada we seem to have far better ccs and tesla charge coverage; I tried to find what government subsidies for chargers contributed to this without luck.

[@kamenwaticlients]

Great indepth comparison. The Aptera is really wide.

[@dannypercussionman]

Really good video, great work. I want to have all three cars.

[@MarkaWickham]

Best comparison I've seen done. Very well presented.

[@passivlife]

Thanks.

[@thomascorbett2936]

I like your definition of a solar electric car, very reasonable .

[@omegathegreat9882]

These vehicles will do extraordinarily well in Africa. Nigeria is a great location.

[@azr2d1]

The American southwest is the perfect grounds for it. But don't ignore the all wheel drive version for mountainous areas.

[@darrenskjoelsvold]

I think that the range of the Sion is enough and the price and utility is attractive too. I just wish that they were bringing the car to the United States. It's just a very normal practical car and should be adequate for my drive to the office.

[@suunraze]

Wow, I loved the in-depth calculations. Did you model the cars in NREL SAM? Or some similar tool? Would you be willing to share your project files?

[@combojerman28]

let's end all lies from the 3 clowns! the car and the whole story was designed, modeled and developed by someone else. the 3 clowns stole EVERYTHING and the inventor doesn't get any money. even if a contract has been signed.

[@macrumpton]

Lightyear just announced their pricing for their first car and it is $250k. You could literally buy almost 8 of the base model Apteras for that price of the lightyear or 4 of the maxed out 1000mile range versions. For students or couples the Aptera is a great option.

[@azr2d1]

that's a joke , right? wow.

[@kaydesign]

I sat in a Lightyear a month ago in Amsterdam. Talked with one of the engineers. Impressive car to see in person. This first model will be limited at a high price followed by a more affordable smaller model for mass production. Love their approach to build a light low drag useable car with solar. A good answer on the current popular heavy electric SUV’s

[@azr2d1]

Too bad the vehicle will be way too expensive and never make it. One issue is the lousy performance.

[@tallenrobinson]

Thank you for a well balaned review of these vehicles. Also, thanks for doing the math for the comparison. :)

[@andreyeampierre2377]

6:23 That makes sense. The endgame goal is to make a solar vehicle completely free of needing a battery backup... as long as solar ia capable to generating the power needed and with those parameters it's on point. 👏🏾

[@Boris_Chang]

If the Aptera is actually available to purchase before the year 2525 I will be amazed.

[@jaybee3165]

the one with a 1000 mile range, that can add 40 miles per day with solar, scan codes on each part on the car, that the customer can order & replace diy- complete with online tutorials on HOW to diy, and affordable FSD option.

[@YeeLeeHaw]

Your notification bell is set to None by default and it cannot be changed.

[@Dqtube]

Great video, but I understand your calculations don't take recuperation into account, which Sion does. Aptera with this width is almost unusable in the whole of Europe. Side streets, parking lots and garages are narrower. It will be better to use truck navigation with this width. On county roads and in smaller towns, many older bridges are not easy to cross in normal wide cars. You have to lower your mirror before crossing. For daily single-person riding, it is better to buy an EV motorcycle especially in Zone 6 and above, where an EV motorcycle is a year-round vehicle. The Lightyear is a great tech demo, but how many kilometers does it need to travel to be worth the extra €100K compared to a classic EV. At this price, it doesn't make sense. Basic EQS is much cheaper and has almost the same aerodynamic efficiency. Only Sion is based on the experience of users in Europe. They promised to create an urban solar electric car, and they did it. The main priority for them was practicality with a decent final price for customers. They have same price compered to similar size classic EV cars.

[@rpf276]

The production Aptera will use cameras instead of rear view mirrors which are great producers of drag and to be avoided for maximum aerodynamic efficiency. It is sized for North America and I am sure a different design would be made for Europe and Asia after the first model is well into production. Like Tesla with the roadster one has to start somewhere first. It is amazing how this North American design car is actually more efficient and has efficiency as a key parameter of performance design, that makes it unique in my eyes.

[@bryanarby]

Note, Aptera will redesign the front wheels to be closer (at least for the EU, as this width is basically not road legal in the EU.). Previously they thought they were needed that wide, but that has been proven wrong via more testing.

[@vic321344]

@@bryanarby The better step would be to integrate the front wheels into the chassis.

[@davesworld7961]

There's another tiny electric car called the Triggo which can adjust the width of it's wheels.

[@jonsek]

@@bryanarby I've seen no mention of this. All handling tests have been conducted with the 85" (actual measurement at Fully Charge show) width. The front wheel covers could be replaced with fendors similar to the Plymouth Prowler as an option.

[@julesl7828]

Nice report, with some interesting insights. Good that you acknowledged that they are are aimed at different customers. The Sion is very practical for your average family, with added benefits like V2G / V2L charging, a tow hook and car-sharing built in. I'm looking forward to driving one of the validation vehicles they are currently building 😎

[@guteSchwingung]

very helpful, thank you for that :)

[@matteoricci9129]

Where did you find the terms mini cells, i think they are calling it half cells

[@JP-kb4yi]

I have 2 aptera reservations. Cant wait to get them and my Tesla model Y will just be used when I need a little more room.

[@lavectech]

Thanks for the comparison

[@PSDAndre]

The Aptera is the future. I just hope that people are ready for such concepts.

[@Zoza15]

I disagree, Aptera could be part of a future, but its not The future of electric solar cars.

[@PSDAndre]

@@Zoza15 "part of a future" - right, of course I didn't mean the future alone, but a technical evolution that should be taken as a guide. Unfortunately, exotics are usually not for the masses. The VW Lupo 3L was discontinued quite quickly due to lack of demand, although it was a very sensible car even then. I would buy the Aptera.

[@Zoza15]

@@PSDAndre That has yet to be seen, because Aptera hasn't really been able to expand their market. Aptera seems more like the ideal car for North America. I don´t see that sort of car roaming around Amsterdam or Paris. As considered the idea of the Lightyear 0 car, that´s just an prototype. The next version will be cheaper with the same principles and technologies like the prototype. I can see that being more practical in the near future. I don´t discourage innovations, but practicality has follow design at the same time.

[@MechmanGetrieb]

Great comparison of the three cars.

[@passivlife]

Thanks.

[@vic321344]

Aptera is a motorcycle.

[@fanfare100]

@@vic321344 The Aptera is an autocycle with the feel, comfort, handling and protection of an automobile. The vast majority of states do not require an helmet for it. Check if yours does.

[@vic321344]

@@fanfare100 It does not have the protection of a car. And it does not have the feel. And not the comfort. No helmet does just mean, that it is a motorcycle with a roof. Check the Aptera homepage.

[@n.brucenelson5920]

@@vic321344 Why lie about what Aptera offers? Anyone can see your claims are not true. I can tell you from personal experience that the comfort of the Aptera prototype is sufficient. (There are significant changes for the production version, so I withhold final judgement here). I have over 400,000 miles on motorcycles, and except for a very narrow definition that only applies in some countries, Aptera is much closer to a car than a motorcycle. It will be crash tested to FMVSS part 200 safety standards by a third party, and the ratings published - unlike ANY motorcycle you can name. Quit with your bullshit or keep being called out on it.

[@spankeyfish]

Little did we know that the competition was actually about which company would still be solvent by the end of the following year.

[@yougeo]

So is the solar Scion actually in production? If it is it's the only one you can actually buy today especially since the light year zero just stop production in lieu of waiting for their light year one.

[@andreyeampierre2377]

13:20 This is a great presentation

[@ccibinel]

The Sion drag is probably not that bad. A big part of why similarly shaped vehicles have bad aerodynamics is large air intakes. The drag of the bionic concept car should be achievable in a tall solar EV and it is 0.22 Cd (potentially Sion v2). The tesla model 3 and model s are shaped similarly to gas cars that have a Cd that is 0.05 - 0.1 worse. Sion should be no worse than 0.3. That said as you pointed out many real world factors will hinder the actual energy gains into the car.

[@passivlife]

Perhaps. Still has a fairly large grill, very similar to an ICE intake imo. I would be surprised if it managed 0.3.

[@fanfare100]

Drag is less of a factor when driving it around town, so it would probably depend on its purpose. I am not a person of means so I cannot afford the lightyear, but I do travel an whole lot bu automobile in my employment so I have reserved an Aptera.

[@NackDSP]

Drag is proportional to Cd * frontal area So minimizing frontal area is just as important.

[@Skylancer727]

The Sion though does have the really poorly aerodynamic rear end though. This causes turbulence behind the vehicle more which is why more aerodynamic cars slope off in the back. This is the whole reason the Model Y is just a larger Model 3. They both already have the sloped design. The theoretical best would be more what Aptera has done, but clearly it is an offputting look and lessens trunk space while also making it less comfortable to put things deeper in. The two main rear end designs cars use are the sloped off with an inward dip in the back similar to the Prius. It's also why many cars have that weird fin at that top of the hatch. This helps a little, but it's still a large downgrade from the pulled in slant or the sloped to a point designs. The Sion seems to have gone with the fin style with a totally flat rear end. That's okay for low speeds but at speed that design will effect efficiency greatly.

[@jonsek]

@@NackDSP Which is why I would like to see Tesla move towards a front end closer to the Lightyear. Ditch the frunk, change the headlight style and add the option of solid disk wheel covers. Aptera makes people more aware of aerodynamic importance. Tesla has continued emphasizing the existing paradigm; acceleration & top speed.

[@TonyG_Film]

Wonderful video. Fair. Balanced. Informative.

[@leop9873]

High hopes for Aptera.

[@bobhilder1469]

Nicely done.

[@passivlife]

Thanks Bob.

[@marsooh302]

Great analysis 👍

[@warmonger2500]

Excellent and informative video. Well presented and very compelling.

[@robinlandal6859]

Awesome breakdown! Thanks!

[@passivlife]

Glad it was helpful!

[@shanerobbins007]

Let's not forget to mention the Scion has vehicle to grid capabilities to power your home in an emergency and vehicle to vehicle charging also even though it may not charge as efficiently(solar) as an aptera or light year one it's still similarly price to an app Terrace starting price but has the seating of a nap tear one at a tenth of the cost I think the Scion will be vastly underrated by many people who just look at the numbers and this is their first vehicle especially for a small startup who have already noted that they would love to make fast improvements and their next models this car would just be their springboard to even better low priced vehicles that lower income families can actually afford which is especially true in comparison to the entry cost of EV ownership work for that matter new vehicle ownership even of a gas(ICE) powered vehicle

[@shanerobbins007]

I think the Aptera would be a great spare car for commuting errand running grocery getter

[@azr2d1]

Aptera claims they are also working on grid capabilities. That's not rocket science.

[@rudyrudelaemmerhirt]

I know it’s less solar reliant but I would like to see the Fisker Ocean and that Hyundai solar car (don’t they have one?) added to this just to have all the currently marketed solar panel cars out there on it (am I missing anyone?)

[@Copernicus22]

Lightyear 0(rebranded from Lightyear One) is production ready now and will start production soon. Aptera has missed deadlines and is expected much later. Lightyear 2 might be in production around the same time as the Aptera.

[@azr2d1]

At those prices lightyear won't need much production capacity since they won't sell much.

[@andreyeampierre2377]

5:50 I like those parameters

[@kurtjensen7264]

Some states in the US require a motorcycle license for a three wheel vehicle

[@skyeozga4935]

Literally only Massachusetts

[@professionalelectronics3158]

Sion is more for the middle class. In Europe. That don't need more than 15 miles of range. The LY1 is for the upper class have have 150k of spare change. The Aptera is for a middle class commuter.

[@kona_moon6055]

What about the aging effect of cells? Do they produce the same power 3 years, 5 years later?

[@passivlife]

They are expected to reduce output by 20% in 30 years. In 5 years you can expect a 3 loss.

[@Skylancer727]

Solar cells age fairly slowly. But I do know Aptera specifically made them modular to be replaced in the future. I really doubt they'll actually make new modules for them as solar development has been very slow, but they did setup for it just in case. I'm more under the impression they added it in case they got damaged.

[@Jimmy-ph8xn]

The best will be the one that actually reaches customers.

[@Anonymous-sb9rr]

When talking about drag coefficient, manufacturers should also mention the frontal area, because it's CD × Af that matters, not CD by itself. I think that the Aptera's frontal area wil be a bit larger than that of a normal sedan.

[@CrissaKentavr]

How?

[@Anonymous-sb9rr]

@@CrissaKentavr m²

[@saranbhatia8809]

Great innovation great information!!

[@robenglish416]

If I was single or a DINK the choice would be Aptera. But with two kids and limited budget I put my money on the Sion, being an affordable EV with the extra benefit that it get some electricity from the sun, not a lot, but a bonus.

[@azr2d1]

Families with kids in the US have more than 1 vehicle. The Aptera is the ideal daily driver commuter.

[@merrickhurst4150]

As far as vehicles are concerned I'm on team Aptera all the way. Not a fan of their zealous worship of the Tesla charge port and yoke, but all considered those are small complaints compared against all the things i love about the Aptera design and philosophy.

[@matteoricci9129]

Wikipedia for the Aptera gives 800 kg avarage, it depends on battery and motor, I think 600 is too low even for 25 kW battery

[@Grant849]

Sometimes the batteries weigh more than the chassis itself. Average must be from all the configurations. Maybe slightly too low for the 25kw

[@onlineo2263]

Pretty sure the Aptera and the Sion currently have no plans to sell to the UK market. Not looked at Lightyear as multiple times more expensive.

[@kalebdaark100]

I'm hoping that the XBus from Electric Brands does what they say it will. It's never going to be a performance vehicle but the thing should do everything I need it to do. If I wasn't concerned with the practicalities I would love to have an Aptera. That thing looks like nothing else.

[@passivlife]

Yeah the Xbus modular concept is something I wanted to see for a while in EVs. Great concept, love the off-road camper variant, cute and rugged. I just wish it was more efficient and had an option to add a bigger solar array, like a fold out version.

[@pinkpanther8427]

I like the look of the lightyear. A shame that its so much more expensive. How do they get to that price tho?! Im thinking about the Aptera, since i need a new car for my daily drive to work and shopping groceries.

[@marting1348]

I think the Sion from Sono Motors is the best concept

[@passivlife]

its certainly aimed at the most practical market sector. I jsut hope they make it though to production.

[@user-ih7gc7dt9l]

I love the Aptera.

[@RoytheLevy]

The aptera is amazing.

[@lfla0179]

The Sono adopted a conventional body and suffers from that, but the lightyear goes for a quarter million dollars, and the aptera only fits 2 people. If you need a 5 seater but can't afford that absurd price tag, the Sono wins. The Sono is a brick, but exactly what 90% of people need, a brick with wheels to commute to work, get kids at school, grocery getter. Will rarely get faster than 60kph. The most sensible car.

[@lennymost167]

aptera is great but when do they start the production. or will we see always innovation the whole time but nothing happens

[@dragade101]

If you are just turned on by numbers alone, the Aptera is wild. Kind of sorry to see the Lightyear with so much potential not making range and performance marks the Aptera is able to achieve (I dont think its completely has to do with the additional 300kg density of the Lightyear either).

[@passivlife]

The Lightyear is still using a lot of traditional car design thinking, the air grill at the front is a big cause of efficiency loss for certain. If they got the drag down a bit more, they would be a lot closer to Aptera. It will be interesting to see Apteras family car when they eventually show the design.

[@dragade101]

@@passivlife I dont even know what 'family car' should mean any more. Are more families having just one or no children? I contest you dont need a 3 row car anymore. Maybe you would rent a van if you wanted to take a trip but the average household doesnt need 6 to 8 seats, maybe 4 is just fine (too narrow for a 5th seat). Can we embrace less as a culture. Definitely Aptera could make a 4 door car and still boast above rate efficiencies if people want to embrace the K car sized people space.

[@azr2d1]

The lightyear is a complete joke when it comes to performance. No sane person will drop that much money and expect to see better performance, ESPECIALLY from an electric car which are VERY easy to make to go fast with.

[@dragade101]

@@azr2d1 I think americans have it wrong. They want to see big numbers and really that isnt the right answer. It isnt like Lightyear has a compelling argument to driver their car. The concern I have is taking the least amount of energy and expanding that over the greatest distance possible. If I'm capped at 100km to do so, then so let that be. They are just missing the mark by charging some 100k(usd) for their car.

[@azr2d1]

@@dragade101 They're not wrong. Electric cars CAN put out big numbers and be affordable. Electric motors are cheap and will be cheaper. The only expensive part is batteries. The rest is magnitudes more simple to build. They want to see big numbers for a car north of 100K. Makes sense to me. It's simply a complete different market. The Aptera is a cheap commuter and it happens to have great performance as well ! Why not have both? Most drivers want to to enjoy their drive. BTW , lightyear isn't american and aptera is. What lightyear is doing is moving in the tesla market but doesnt offer much advantage. If it would cost less than the Aptera it has a chance. Rightnow it's moving into niche market and that's not helping anyone.

[@TheDeelunatic]

Now the ultimate question, which one is going to be easier to repair when needed?

[@azr2d1]

I bet the Aptera. First of all electric vehicles are much more simple to build. Way less parts to break. With the motors and suspension easily reachable it wins hands down. Batteries shouldn't need any work for a long time.

[@TheDeelunatic]

@@azr2d1 everyone says "batteries shouldn't need work" But I say I want to be able to if I need to without half destroying the car.

[@azr2d1]

@@TheDeelunatic what would you do to it ? It being the most expensive part of the car. ?

[@TheDeelunatic]

@@azr2d1 the point is, if I need to replace a cell set, I want to be able to without needing to seriously disassemble the car or potentially damage the vehicle's structure to do it. I'm picky about the ability to fix things. It's why I don't own a modern car.

[@azr2d1]

@@TheDeelunatic sure. That's maybe after 10 years. I'm sure it can be swapped. Again, there isn't a whole lot to these cars so it should be fairly easy to get to. They are much less complicated than your 10 year old ice.

[@JensPilemandOttesen]

Sion is a practical FAMILY car.

[@matteoricci9129]

Ps Lightyear will make an announcement on the 9th of June

[@MBergyman]

If I am using this car for commuting, I absolutely am leaving it parked all day at work in one position. It's obvious that where I park is critical, but it is not an unreasonable assumption that most people driving these cars will be parked during the large chunk of their work day.

[@passivlife]

I definately will :)

[@samueltucker8473]

Yes, realistic expectations. EVs range quoted by makers of the past are generally half of the actual range in the real world environment. Well done.

[@mockingbird187]

I think the CD of the Sion is going to be much closer to .19+ It's far too short and cut off at the back to be as slippery as estimated. I could certainly be wrong, but we'll see.

[@LarryRix]

All this until one has to write the check or throw down the credit card. Aptera wins. I understand that they are about to enter production on the two-seater and have a four-seater on the drawing board.

[@lfla0179]

The Sono would sell like hotcakes for people... in Brazil. Cheap, conventional, plenty of sun, short commutes... I commute less than 20km and park my car in the sun both at home and at work. Scorching sun. I would never need to recharge. The utopia of a car that recharges itself would be true to me. And I need to lug 4 people around.

[@ID_iKONIC_VIP]

I only wish the wheels of the Aptera would be less wide, and can go in for parking. Also some highways have narrow lanes... what would happen if another car clipped the wheels.....yikes

[@TheMilkywayboy]

I heard that the production lightyear will be in the 30000$ range.

[@passivlife]

Thats the idea. Should be possible but my guess is it will be closer to $35 - 40,000 for the 60kwh by the time they hit mass production. Personally I hope they launch a 30kwh or 40kwh version for around $25 - 30,000. The best selling Aptera is the 40kwh version so it would make a lot more sense in terms of business. I would love a 40kwh Lightyear.

[@StevenYoungEtc]

I wonder why Tesla doesn't offer a Model 3 LR with a solar package. Perhaps that's coming someday, whenever the Lightyear comes to Texas. Though the Cd of the Model 3 LR is good, covering the rear wheels would help. We badly need the Aptera in the USA right now, in 2022, because driving any electric car other than a Tesla on a trip won't work. The Aptera is the game changing agent for the current state of the USA, able to go on trips. I just hope the 100kW battery is real, and not a marketing ploy.

[@CrissaKentavr]

Tesla aims for efficiency in production, which means no frills. Certainly hope they offer that option, tho. So many cars just sit around in the sun.

[@azr2d1]

You completely missed the entire efficiency part, did you? Adding solar ot a pig like a model 3 is a complete waste of money. IT would gain a negligible amount of range per day.

[@jonvelde5730]

Musk has quite sensibly said that solar on a car makes no sense (which is very true of any car that has weight and efficiency roughly similar to a production ICE automobile.). Solar panels on a tesla would gain you about two miles of usable range per day. This is not really worth the significant added expense, both in materials and manufacturing.

[@azr2d1]

@@jonvelde5730 exactly. It only makes sense on a very efficient vehicle. Nothing Tesla has comes even close. Makes 0sense

[@allglad]

If the supposed new low cost Tesla doesn’t have solar panels integrated like these the following one should in my opinion…soon they should do something like aptera also.

[@allglad]

Pretty interesting video..one thing though the sponsor..Jackery used to have some of the best but now almost everything and more is available with Ecoflow.

[@passivlife]

@@allglad Both are good but I'm still waiting on Eco flows affiliate partners to accept my application ;) I would really like to see a tiny Tesla, like a cooler looking renault twizy, with a solar panel of course.

[@rpf276]

Maybe so but solar power must be matched to optimum aerodynamic and rolling efficiency to make it work out as a truly significant factor in a car's power needs.

[@polok890]

250 watt electric bicycle, 1/3 of a horsepower and weights 60 lbs

[@moestrei]

The drag caused by air is the frontal area times the drag coefficient. The drag coefficient by itself is almost meaningless. Solar needs to be on roofs and carports not on the vehicle which should be parked undercover in the shade instead.

[@passivlife]

Hello Rheingold, thanks for the comment and my apologies for the late reply. Yes, you are 100% correct. The drag coefficient by itself is meaningless. That being said, passenger vehicles such as cars have an astonishingly similar frontal area due to their design requirements. In this case the vehicles are all very similar in size, so the drag coefficient can be used a simple method for comparison. As for the soalr on roofs, yes solar is perfect for rooves, but believe it or not most cars gloabaly are parked outside for most of the year. Even people who are lucky enough to have a garage or carport tend not to use them. All my family are lucky enough to have them but none of them, not one, actualy uses them to store their vehicle. So why not add solar if the vehicles will be outdoors anyway?

[@passivlife]

You made me curious so I decided to calcualte all three of the frontal areas. Using the Aptera as 100% because it had the smallest frontal cross section, the Lightyear comes out with and additional 13% frontal area and the Sion has an extra 26% frontal area.

[@heavylog1c]

Lightyear is too expensive. But I can see myself byuing Aptera.

[@azr2d1]

As with everything , it will all come down to price and that's where Aptera wins hands down. This is by FAR the cheapest commuter car. In cost and in operating cost which will be very low. The only true way to make solar cars work is by efficiency and that's where Aptera wins. It's ridiculous that we drive 3000 to 5000 pounds vehicles to get to and from work. Moving a ~200lbs person.

[@bongos1966]

Can you realistically use a mirror or white panel to reflect more light onto the vehicle?

[@azr2d1]

Not worth the gain.

[@petermachowetz1906]

Maybe you should tell, that this is a commercial for Aptera at the beginning and not at the end of your video, to be fair,

[@ThePlombyras]

Aptera 🤤

[@nickkacures2304]

The electronic music in the background was OK for the first couple of seconds of the video and after 30 seconds it became unbearable to a point of making video useless thankfully it had closed captioning

[@passivlife]

oh...I'm still learning the finer points of video editing I guess.. sorry about that, useful feedback though so thanks.

[@LiranBarsisa]

Is this the latest model of Sion that's shown here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fpvSeZyjltaknLs ? Isn't it supposed to be very efficient?

[@passivlife]

Sorry Liran I missed this comment before. To answer your question Sono are claiming (without any evidence to back it up I might add) that the Sion will achieve an efficiency rating of 16kwh per 100km. The same as Tesla Model 3 which is one of the most efficient EVs currently on the market. These efficieny ratings are based on specific test cycles such as EPA or WLTP, and these test cycles involve a mixture of high speed and low speed driving. The Sion is unklikey to match the Tesla M3 becasue, even though it is lighter, it is much less aerodynamic which is the main cause of energy loss for EVs. On top of that the Tesla has highly optimized custom motors that are very efficient but the Sion is most likely using standard "off the shelf" electric motors that will further reduce its effectiveness. I truly hope it is as efficient as they say, but ev-database has their estimated efficiency down as 18kwh per 100km, which is probably about right and unfortunately not very efficient for an EV. On the plus side, if you are only driving slowly then it will achieve this effciency without a doubt.

[@LiranBarsisa]

@@passivlife The slower you drive, the more efficient (on EV cars)? Interesting. I hope solar energy will be on all EV cars eventually, or something else ... In the past I thought that in "Back to the future", it was fine to just put garbage as fuel :)

[@kevinim300]

great comparison. the future looks bright. haha

[@bristolfashion4421]

crikey - almost makes me want to go live somewhere hot...

[@ritzengineering]

Take the almost newest data from the Sion.

[@passivlife]

I watched their update. It looks promising but its still not official. If they make it to prodcution I will definately follow up on the real performance stats. It will be interesting to see if they match up as expected.

[@RomanChaar]

My problems with Aptera. 1. Cost is too close to Tesla model 3 2. Only a two seater 3. We don’t know how safe the vehicle is, weight is a big factor. 4. Profitability is uncertain. 5. Cash flow burn of $50 million/year. 6. Doesn’t qualify for federal/state Tax rebate incentives. 7. Haven’t herd any updates on private equity fund raising. 8. Best scenario won’t start production till 2025. 9. Tesla is continuing to reduce prices and increase quality. 10. Early production models will have very few features till at least 2027

[@passivlife]

Aptera is not really in the same market as a tesla. It's far more advanced in terms of efficiency. That's its market. The current burn rate is only so high because of production tooling. They only have 55 staff. They can cut burn rate by 80-90% whenever they want.

[@RomanChaar]

@@passivlife cutting the staff by half doesn’t reduce cash burn that significantly

[@RomanChaar]

@@passivlife y would anyone by a two seater for $35,000 when they can buy a model 3?

[@RomanChaar]

The apteras launch vehicle will be priced at the same market as a model 3 but with 3 less seats. That makes apteras market very small and niche, making it even more difficult to become profitable. They need even their 400mile variant to be well under $30k. That’s very difficult in these inflationary times. Their pricing was posted years ago. Todays market is a different animal especially with rising interest rates.

[@RomanChaar]

@@passivlife also AT BEST, an aptera is only $1,000 cheaper to run every year than a model 3. Even though the aptera is super efficient.

[@NielsHeusinkveld]

The Lightyear is 250.000 euro, not 150.000.

[@passivlife]

Hi Niels. Yes this video was posted long before the name change and price change. If you look at the later news update video I posted you can see that they changed the name of the current concept from Lightyear One to Lightyear Zero and added a massive 100,000 on to the price tag making it 250,000. It used to be 150,000. The mass production version due for release in the next couple of years will be called the Lightyear One and should be almost identical but only cost about 30,000. Lightyear confused a lot of people witht the name change and price change. Thanks for the comment.

[@NielsHeusinkveld]

@@passivlife I should've added a few words along the lines of 'thanks for the video but' .. but thanks for the polite reply :D Promises and ambitions are one thing, lets see if they can actually deliver an affordable version at some point, it is a monumental job.

[@bindiberry6280]

How much road surface has been covered by our freeway system in California?! If we smartly distribute some higher thermal tolerant solar receivers (no CCP products please!) into this system, let's say 10% each square mile averagely, how much electricity or hydrogen/CH4 blended fuel California can produced?!!

[@bindiberry6280]

How is the status for using solar thermal energy to blend gases into liquid fuel so far?

[@tesmith47]

They cannot be compared unless the price is factored in

[@raderamamar2503]

Sion is the best choice for middle class people, If you have a car like Sion then you don't need another car.