Middle-earth Lorecast - 03, Arnor, Part 1

[@KathyMort]

Ah, the pirates of Arrrnor!

[@bereftspud279]

Thank you for this wonderful pun

[@Kirshara85]

Thank you for continuing the Lorecasts! I have listened to these dozens of time each will continue to do so.

[@arizeren2068]

I am an avid podcast listener and I think that a variant on a podcast app would be totally awesome. Love the Numenor and Arnor lore casts, please keep it coming.

[@TheJazzax]

you have no idea the peace that Tolkien gives me, and your content too Galu! Thank you for the years worth of entertainment at this point. I honestly can't thank you enough. Cheers!

[@DuBaas007]

Downlands are hilly regions of which the hills have one steep side and one shallow side afaik.

[@Pyromantox]

Love these types of videos, good work galu!

[@bahhesaid]

Amazing work, thank you so much for this series!

[@gm2407]

I was thinking that the Kingdom of Gondor must have had a lot of settled people with a huge Numanorean population having emigrated from Numanor prior to the fall. Therefore Isuldor and Anarion must have been elected as Kings being closest to the royal line. This prior settlement must have given Gondor a much larger population of Numanoreans than Arnor which did not have an existing population base of Numanoreans. Imagine being so advanced you form a massive kingdom with only 5 wooden ships of people. Ship size must be between 350 and 800 people depending on size of the ships. Remember Numanoreans are 6 foot 4 to 7 foot 11 (Elindil's height he was the tallest therefore High King in more than name) so space is at a premium. You have to decide what style as well as length width and height of ships they would have brought for your consideration. On my estimates that is 1,750 to 4,000 people. For example William the Conqueror had about 7000 men with about 2000 horses between 700 and 800 ships likely similar to Viking style ships. With that you have to bring food, equipment, materials ect. I was assuming larger style ships built like larger Cogs for the Numenorians and also asuming that these included families. So really 350-800 men might have been the full fighting number for that whole force. Maybe there were some Numenorean settlements on the coast as that seems infesable for Arnor's founding without local support. But they must have been very Xenophobic for the "blood of Numenour" to be running stronger in the North centuries later than Gondor and to have a low population even after plague and war. Men must not have wanted to be second class Arnorians and left. Elendil landed in Lindon I believe so perhaps a friendly population of elf friends was near at hand to support him but I am of course speculating. Thinking about the last aliance of men and elves, and the army of Arnor most of them must have been men not of Numanorean origin even if they were equiped by Numanoreans in their fashion.

[@anti-liberalismo]

There is one thing which you spoke which is not true about the numenorean population of Arnor. The Dúnedain of Arnor actually made up a lot of the population of Arnor, and they settled many places in Eriador, but they lived specially between the Lhun and the Baranduin, even during Arthedain's time. And in Annuminas and Fornost they also dwelt, as well as the North Downs in general, and at the Barrow Downs, and they also settled the hills of Rhudaur, but in small numbers. After all, the Numenóreans colonized the lands of Eriador for about 1000 years before settling mostly to the south of Middle Earth.

[@gm2407]

@@anti-liberalismo Thanks for the correction. Arnor was the more populated of the two until the plagues and wars before the 3 kingdom's collapsed.

[@anti-liberalismo]

@@gm2407 you're welcome, sir. I think Arnor was not the more populous of the two after the beginning of the Third Age, but was very populous indeed.

[@We_Are_Exodus]

Always happy to see another one of these!

[@iCallummmmJohnsonnnn]

Damn I love this series! Please could you eventually go one based solely on Sauron? Keep up the great work Galu!

[@michelmorio8026]

Am so hoping the Amazon Series will tell us the events of Sauron becoming prisoner of Ar-Pharazon, Numenors corruption and fall, founding of the realms in exile till the battle of Dagorlad

[@jeffcarver8193]

Question: Have the Trees of Middle Earth ever aligned with Melkor or any of his subsequent minions? I ask this because in LOTRs the Hobbits talk about how they had a sudden battle with the "Old Forest" seemed to align with the time of the Old Took battling the Goblins. Thanks if you make a video of this question.

[@robertjohannessen2796]

«He must be really boring at parties”😂 Dead.

[@bertrecht913]

The Men of the Mirkwood Wood and Anduin Vale are far descendants of the Members of the House of Hador and belongs to the Northmen Stock like the People of Rohan and Dale. Middleman People are the folk Bree, Duneland and Enedwaith.

[@Wolfeson28]

Out of curiosity, does anything from Tolkein definitively show that Isildur only cut the Ring from Sauron's hand after he was dead, rather than in the course of combat? I had always understood that it was left fairly ambiguous as to which course of events actually took place. I believe there's a quote in the Silmarillion where Isildur specifically says "Was it not I who dealt the enemy his deathblow?". I think the other question is which individuals actually participated in the duel against Sauron, since Elrond, Cirdan, and Isildur are (to the best of my knowledge) only ever said to have "stood by" Gil-galad and Isildur, which I suppose could either mean that they actually helped in the fight or that they were simply the only ones in the Last Alliance army who had the courage to witness such a clash.

[@Uberdude6666]

My ingerpetation is that Sauron made Gil-Galad see that the rings of power was the only way for the elves to have a future in middle-earth, thus making him despair. The phrase describing Sauron burning Gil-Galad is a metaphor for him despairing over this and betraying Elendil to perserve the power of the rings, resulting in the elven king slaying Elendil. Isildur then cut the ring from Sauron's weakened body in the confusion and Gil-Galad was slain (either by Isildur or Elrond, neither would do so willingly) Ofcourse neither Elrond or Galadriel would have told the full truth of these events over 3000 years later...

[@michelmorio8026]

juiuffophiguo that‘s a pretty bold interpretation... never heard it before, quite interesting, but I believe, like a lot of theories considering A song of Ice and Fire, far too „conspiracy theory“... I think it is as told, that Sauron was losing against Elendil and Gil-Galad „discharged“ a lot of his power as a Maia, increased by the One Ring, and „burned“ the life essence of Gil-Galad and then fatally wounded Elendil, himself being wounded and weakened! Then Isildur could have as only has the courage to approach Sauron, took Narsil from his father and gave „the enemy his deathblow“

[@michelmorio8026]

I was always asking myself HOW the Realms in exile could muster such a great force after only around 120 Years in existing? Wasn‘t it the case, that only 9 ships made it from Numenor? Of course there are the few cities/colonies, but not all of them were faithfuls, some were Kingsmen and would be hostile towards their brethren, or am I wrong there? Is it even the case, that most of the army of the Realms in Exile were „lesser humans“?

[@akiraguy]

it is already established that while the royal line and high nobility of both nations of arnor and gondor were numenorians, most of its subjects were not. they were mostly middle men, kinsmen with the three houses of edain which never cross the blue mountains.

[@michelmorio8026]

akiraguy thank you for clarification! It is pretty hard to get you fingers on a lot of Tolkien’s works in german! I have only Lord of the Rings, Silmarillion and Hobbit

[@TheJazzax]

@@michelmorio8026 What a hero! I'm sure you can find what you need in your tongue!

[@michelmorio8026]

845productions actually not; a lot of books weren‘t translated for example „History of middle earth“, unfinished Tales, letters of Tolkien don‘t exist in German... a don‘t you have better to do than going through comments and affront me here for basically nothing?!? Has my comment somehow insulted you?

[@phoenixrising573]

In the US, the word 'downs' isn't used at all. We just call that type of land 'rolling hills'.

[@jeffhreid]

Excellent!

[@docvaliant721]

We dont say downs in Texas.

[@michelmorio8026]

Why does Isildur have to travel North when they have seeing stones in Minas Anor, Osgiliath and Minas Ithil AND in Annuminas and Amon Sul 🤷🏻‍♂️🤔

[@akiraguy]

probably because not all of the realms got access to it; isildurs need to personally reach them to reinforce osgiliath. remember the men of the white mountains that reject isildurs call to arm. I'm sure there's plenty more of these background places that need to be called by foot.

[@michelmorio8026]

akiraguy yeah, but you would send an envoy and or your son; but not the king (rather one of the two kings) of Gondor to do so! And I didn‘t mean the Vassals, it is said he rides to Arnor which is what I don‘t understand, both realms can communicate through the stones... there are at least 3 in Gondor and 2 in Arnor

[@majorianus8055]

Michèl Morio lets dace it mr Frodo, it;s a plothole. Those stones could have been used for some sort of an medieval express mail increasing the spread of tech and economy. Frankly, i dont understand why Cardolan didnt reach Calenardhon. It;s quire weird fior gondor or arnor to leave that prime trading and military important Enedwaith section.

[@SignificantOtherProd]

Isildur remains in Gondor for some (apparently considerable) time prior to travelling north as the affairs of Gondor were set in order following the war. He travels north because, as the heir of Elendil, that is where his kingdom lies and, as any good boss or ruler knows, the longer away from the kingdom the greater the chance for mischief from within or without. It's entirely possible he did use the stones to keep abreast of what was happening at home. Tolkien is silent on the matter - just as he is on whether or not the Dunedain have indoor plumbing and flush toilets. It's simply not relevant to the tale.

[@michelmorio8026]

SignificantOtherProd I meant when Sauron attacked Gondor! When he travelled North to Elendil and Anarion remained in Osgiliath to defend Gondor! The Palantirs would have been much faster and more effective to coordinate the defense and Isildur wouldn‘t have to spend several years absent the front line of their defense!

[@thomaspostma2329]

I actually wonder why it is ARnor, since the word Ar has such a negative connotation with the kingsman and all that. I would have thought the faithfull would have chosen smt else. But well, random thought

Arnor means kings land in Sindarin. Named for Elendil who took residence there.

[@thomaspostma2329]

@ Yea true, but one could have imagined they would take the word Tar instead of ar, being faithfull instead of kingsmen and all. But the old master Tolkien shall have had his reasons ^^ btw: I greatly appriciate your work! It's very informative and enjoyable to listen to!

[@Uberdude6666]

Cardolan is called Red Hills due to all the blood that was shed over the hills of the barrow downs

But that would imply the name came AFTER the war with Angmar but Cardolan was called that since the Numenoreans settled Eriador...

[@Uberdude6666]

@ But is that for certain or is it possible that we only think that because they only call it that in the late third age? It seemed like a logical reasoning for the name also

[@michelmorio8026]

juiuffophiguo you could argue, that the Numenoreans already spilled a lot of blood there butchering and enslaving Middle-Men and Wildmen when they were cutting down the trees to build ships in the mid Second Age

[@lindenstromberg6859]

Is your modding effort any relation to the Middle Earth Project of Crusader Kings 2?

[@sandymalcolm8824]

Can't wait to reunite Arnor in DAC if that's on the cards..... pretty please

[@justinnelson7357]

I think they have said it won't be happening, instead they are looking into the reunited kingdom.

[@belegthoron8603]

Indeed. The DaC team is working on a script for the Reunited Kingdom of the Fourth Age. But, if you want a reforged Arnor, I think that the Heirs of Elendil submod (that uses DaC as base) is working on a reforging Arnor script . And you can start as Arthedain, Cardolan or Rhudaur. You can read and see pictures on moddb, discord and Total War center. Cheers!

[@julian7153]

This is not related to arnor but it was your most newly video. It would have been a cool concept to have a special campaign as erebor and it was lost to the dragon smaug. Smaugs unit would obviessly not be a singel unit but a pretty strong unit nonetheless. You would play as the company of thorin oakenshield and trying to conquer Erebor back. Just a cool idea i thougt of pleas like so arachir could see it

[@alanchristianlopes568]

Hi arachir, thank you for this awesome mod, could you guys make a submod that we could reform arnor with some good units? Thanks man

[@belegthoron8603]

I think that the Heirs of Elendil submod (wich uses DaC as base mod) are working on a reforging Arnor script. You can start by being Cardolan, Arthedain or Rhudaur to then unite Arnor, wich is very cool. You can see their progress in Moddb if you are intrested. Either way, the DaC team is working on the Reunited Kingdom. You can see some of the preview units at DaC's Discord. Cheers!

[@gawinthegrey7667]

Arachir will you play Classic WoW?

[@Dadecorban]

Hey, I want you to know that the Vale of Anduin faction in the latest DAC are a pain in the ass. An actual challenge in a game with shit AI. GJ.

[@michelmorio8026]

Am so much hoping the Amazon Series will tell us the events of Sauron becoming prisoner of Ar-Pharazon, Numenors corruption and fall, founding of the realms in exile till the battle of Dagorlad

[@etoinedevries7583]

So far it's going the right way :D