ARAGORN vs. Toxic Masculinity

[@anava7030]

“He provides for those he cares for” *hurls apple at pippin’s head*

[@hester9311]

And thats why I need to marry a man like this. I need my apple a day.

[@emjenkins464]

Is it fair to say Pippin generally deserves it

[@ljiljanasrebrenovic9500]

Well, that was the second breakfast!

[@LittleLadyLindsay]

But... in a caring way

[@sinlobo84]

@@emjenkins464 True!! Also, I love this thread

[@Julia-lk8jn]

"protective violence" - Professor Tolkien is of course way ahead of you: "I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend." ~ Faramir

[@g.d.graham2446]

Awesome

[@CompassRoseCreates]

This quote is sung in elvish during Boromir’s death scene.

[@g.d.graham2446]

@@CompassRoseCreates Awesome

[@Confusion7182]

@@CompassRoseCreates it killed me when I learned that. His motivations were very much from a good place, and he had such faith in his peers and love for the people he sought to protect.

[@Olivia-xf4gy]

YES

[@shredforceone]

A tumblr post I've seen repeatedly over the years: "I re-watched The Lord of the Rings the other day, and you know what I really appreciate? The men are so tender. They cry and kiss each other's foreheads and hug and call each other 'my friend' and 'my dear'; they're respectful to women and faithful to their partners; they have banter without being creepy and sleazy, and literally none of that stops them from being considered 'manly.' More Lord of the Rings men please."

[@shredforceone]

@Jooles what do you accomplish by yelling repost at me about this

[@jakubrogacz6829]

It wasn't being gay untill such a time people made it gay by overfocusing of sth being gay vs not being gay.

[@jenli142]

Is it odd that lord of the rings has Christian themes in it? Cause I always thought it was trying to promote these types of characters... being faithful to one person, loving thy neighbor as yourself, and to kiss each other and say my friend as Jesus did. But at the same time, you could argue the Bible is incredibly violent, but then again so is lord of the rings.

[@shredforceone]

@@jenli142 Tolkien was a Christian and his hierarchy of beings like Eru and the Valar is pretty similar to Christianity in multiple ways

[@jakubrogacz6829]

@@jenli142 Violence is unfortunate fact of our lives. If you think about it if we became nonviolent then first person to use violence would subjugate all others.

[@giovannigiorgio831]

I think Aragorn is the epitome of a complete man. He’s brave, skilled and tough, but gentle, artistic, humble and caring.

[@zenkim6709]

This dovetails nicely with an all-but-forgotten classical ideal.... The ancient Greeks called it "arete" (sp?) which was later mistraslated into "virtue" but is better described as meaning "excellence" -- the idea that the greatest among us are not just good at what they do, but in fact are exceedingly good at *everything* they do. Truly great people see the potential value in everything & everyone around them, which motivates them to learn & understand everything they can about the world & the people in it. This is why heroes in the old Greek epics can seem to be downright superhuman: the ancient Greek ideal of a heroic man entails much more than bravery & strength. He is a skilled warrior, a deft peace negotiator & a cunning schemer. He is a literate scholar, capable of discussing a wide manner of topics w/ philosophers, yet is kind & patient when speaking to simple countryfolk & children. He is knowledgeable & comfortable when traveling thru & dealing w/ the citizens of the greatest cities -- but can also catch, slaughter, butcher & roast an animal while out in the open wilderness. He can track wildlife, shoot a bow & arrow, cast a line or a net to catch fish, use bait to set a trap, build a campsite & knows how to gather herbs & foodstuffs from local flora for survival. He can consume stout drink & sing rowdy songs along w/ the loudest crowds at any tavern & woo the ladies w/ his charm, yet can be reduced to tears by a poem about grief & heartbreak. The Greek hero is more than a specialist in 1 or more fields: he is an excellent all-rounder, a Renaissance Man long before the term was ever coined; he possesses enormous arete. By logical extension, then, a "Mary Jane" is quite simply a female figure of great arete -- just one who happens to trigger male fragility.

[@jenniferharris1280]

AND he can sing.

[@sarahlandis289]

He's the kind of man I wanted to find and marry

[@Skywalker20239]

I think Aragorn is an example how you need to create a character that people will believe and they will empathize to him)

[@maryannangros8834]

I did!

[@darkecofreak23]

For all the jokes about Sean Bean dying a lot in movies, he does do a hell of a job with his death scenes.

[@janetj.4110]

Well He should with all the experience He has

[@LukeZwarteVacht]

By this point, his actual death should get him an oscar

[@CulixIII]

@@janetj.4110 Was gonna say just that: practice makes perfect and all.

[@JackieAndary]

He has one of the BEST death speeches ever in Fellowship, which is especially impressive considering he’s only onscreen for about 25 minutes total. “I would have followed you... My brother, my captain... my king” 😭😭😭

[@TessieVann]

Sean Bean is the ultimate living spoiler lol

[@-Raylight]

*_"My friends, you bow to no one."_* "Damn it, every damn time" Same, it always gets me everytime :(

[@TheAdrian229]

This is exactly what i said when you showed that scene guys

[@emilklingberg1623]

its the music, watch that without music and you wont feel a thing

[@Goldtoothbandit]

its such a good scene!

[@lauraraynor-williams7498]

Also me. I’m crying at my desk.

[@chngdm]

me, instantly crying

[@ninjahunter101]

It's worth noting that Aragorn being openly teary isn't just in the movies. In the book, Aragorn cried so much at Boromir's death that Legolas thought that he had been mortally wounded as well.

[@Julia-lk8jn]

Actually, I love Legolas' reaction at Boromir's death, and Aragorns reaction. Legolas looks saddened, but also like somebody viewing something alien. Elves can die in battle, of course ... but the Mirkwook elves have pretty much kept themselves out of battles (events of "The hobbit" being a rare exception) and of course live potentially for ever. Death is that thing that humans do.

[@Fifi-jb3yx]

awwww ☹️

[@thxcomeagain9552]

@@Julia-lk8jn I love that analysis of Legolas' reaction to Boromir's death

[@sniper.93c14]

Tolkien fought in a war and knows that men cry at the deaths of their brothers in arms. The battlefield is full of sweat, blood and tears

[@rokkfel4999]

@@Julia-lk8jn reading this brought me to a few tears

[@Dragenphly]

Late to the party in watching this video, but just want to highlight how in Fellowship, when they have to get Frodo to Rivendell, Arwen says she’s the faster rider, and while Aragorn is initially worried, and it’s hard for him to send her into danger, he doesn’t ‘let her go’, he just says, ‘as you wish’. True respect and partnership there, despite the worry/love/fear for her.

[@CinemaTherapyShow]

Love that!

[@joshlamb9443]

Reminds me of Wesley in the princess bride

[@jaideepshekhar4621]

I really hate that we are still going on about "toxic masculinity". It's literally just toxicity.

[@evilsharkey8954]

@@jaideepshekhar4621It’s toxicity in masculinity. There’s also toxic positivity, toxic femininity, etc.

[@jaideepshekhar4621]

@@evilsharkey8954 That implies its somehow masculinity that's toxic. It's not. It's humans who are toxic.

[@braeburnapfel5178]

"He provides for those in his care" *savagely throws apple at Pippin's head* 😂😂

[@cferracini]

well... he didn't say he delicately provides for those in his care xD

[@user-zh4vo1kw1z]

@@cferracini love hurts.

[@rachel_sj]

Aragorn is saying that Pippin and the Hobbits have to eat their Second Breakfast on the move! 😆 🏃‍♀️

[@NoodleKeeper]

It's not his fault. There are trees in the way, Pippin just isn't paying attention.

[@jaydee1024]

@@NoodleKeeper Naw Aragorn's just that good at headshots.

[@LuinTathren]

I love Aragorn, but my favorite is Faramir. He's got daddy issues, but he's still brave, gentle, well-educated, and is willing to admit and correct mistakes. Aragorn is perfect, but Faramir is human.

[@chriskelly3481]

Nice! This.👍

[@elizabethanne8729]

Well said!!!!

[@MClapYourHands]

I always particularly loved Faramir. Especially that quote about how he doesn't love the sword for it sharpness, etc, only that which they defend. I've botched up the quote, but I always find his character compelling.

[@darcyliz9993]

I love how some of the comments are about Faramir. He and Eowyn are my favourite characters in LotR.

[@DrawingPicture]

When I read the books, I kind of felt like Faramir was too bland. Like a washed out version of Aragorn.

[@ryabow]

"I will not say: do not weep; for not all tears are an evil."

[@Alaryk111]

gandalf return of the king?

[@ryabow]

@@Alaryk111 Yes. In The Grey Havens, to be precise.

[@lauracoutinho5478]

Aragorn was raised by elves. They embrace all their emotions as important to show and accept and are all about poetry and art. If you look at other men in the film, many are much more stoic other than Faramir who spent most of his time reading literature and history and fraternizing with wizards, which is one of the reasons his father considered him weak.

[@rockyblacksmith]

I wouldn't make it that simple. Consider the fact that both Legolas and Elrond, Aragorns foster father, are pretty stoic characters (the main exeption in the case of Elrond being matters surrounding Arwen). I'd say the character that wears his emotions most on his sleeve is Gimli, even though we all know that the dwarves are so masculine that even their women have beards.

[@anon-il9qf]

"Aragorn was raised by elves. They embrace all their emotions" HOLY SH** THE LEVEL OF CRINGE ON THIS COMMENT SECTION it's literally one weird femcel comment after another elves? ELVES? DO YOU THINK VIGGO MORTENSEN KNOWS A THING ABOUT LOTR LORE? I'M NOT EVEN GOING TO DIGNIFY YOU WITH AN EXPLANATION FOR WHAT LOTR IS ABOUT.

[@martineldritch]

Good point lauracoutinho :-) Tolkien's Elves have also embraced a certain joie de vivre that other races including human find themselves unable or unwilling to participate in.

[@nicolasnamed]

​​@anon-il9qf Everyone involved in the production of LotR was an immense fan. Shut up and stop pissing yourself and crying.

[@nataliaturner4845]

​@anon-il9qf "Tolkien was a devout Roman Catholic from boyhood, and he described The Lord of the Rings in particular as a "fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision". While he insisted it was not an allegory, it contains numerous themes from Christian theology" (Christianity in Middle-Earth, Wikipedia) A direct quote from Tolkien: "Out of the darkness of my life, so much frustrated, I put before you the one great thing to love on earth: the Blessed Sacrament … There you will find romance, glory, honour, fidelity, and the true way of all your loves upon earth." But go ahead, tell us what LOTR is really all about 🙄

[@marystombaugh2282]

What else I noticed upon a recent rewatch - no gratuitous shirtless scene of his hairless and shiny muscles to show how strong and skilled he was. Instead, they just showed him being strong and skilled. Viggo didn't have to dehydrate himself to play the character.

[@29jgirl92]

True!!

[@alpacawithouthat987]

Notice how they also don’t sexualize the women in Lotr. Everything with Eowyn and Arwen shows their strength and wisdom

[@robotempire]

He also wasn’t playing a comic book hero tho!

[@anniebananie3421]

IKR?? This is true for all the characters, male and female. There was no gratuitous fanservice. These movies were beyond refreshing.

[@halo12390]

best part being this movie is almost ancient.

[@Psychoclaw]

"My friends, you bow to no one" * shire music plays* Me: *UGLY CRYING*

[@larsstrohmeier2320]

same here, same here - excuse the possible on the nose tackiness, but as we have seen here: not all tears are an evil. Best wishes =)

[@danieln.schabauer1963]

Saaaame

[@rruhland]

EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

[@Monarchyman1]

This scene broke my wife. She started crying and didn’t stop for and hour and a half after the movie ended. To this day just hearing the music will put a lump in her throat.

[@MahiMahi-yu5jo]

Me too

[@lindseysquire8417]

Alan: He is FINE- Me: Yeah he is Alan: -with his masculinity Me: Oh. Yeah, that too

[@CinemaTherapyShow]

Lol. I mean, we were all thinking it.

[@smarti1144]

LOL, you're in my head!

[@xavierwagner3238]

F**k I am swooning.

[@tortis6342]

@@CinemaTherapyShow I was watching this movie with my family for our annual thanksgiving lord of the rings marathon, and said something similar, only for my entire family to disagree with me.

[@enolp]

Same 😂😂

[@xzemmyx]

I will be forever grateful to Viggo's son, who apparently heard his dad got the offer for the role. Then apparently, the story goes, highly encouraged his dad to accept it. Thanks dude. 👍

[@CinemaTherapyShow]

Thanks, Viggo's son!

[@Langley_Ackerman19]

He's the real MVP! ❤❤❤

[@seawolfe683]

The boy that aragorn encourages before helms deep is also vigos son fyi

[@lastudentessa]

​@@seawolfe683That boy is not his son. He is the son of someone else who worked on the production. Viggo's son did play a soldier in ROTK.

[@seawolfe683]

@@lastudentessa he played both, and one of the orcs at the battle of Pelenor fields I think

[@caseyh8386]

I also liked how legolas is clearly beautiful, not handsome or manly but beautiful. But at no point are you in any doubt how much of a badass he is. And the same goes for all the elves male or female, they're considered beautiful and effeminate but also formidable and skilled warriors.

[@CinemaTherapyShow]

So, so true. The elves are stunning and elegant.

[@copyrightdragon7244]

This, but also Legolas is built like a hoss in the books, because Tolkien understood that archery back before the invention of recurve and compound bows took enormous strength due to the crazy draw weight. Fun fact: the skeletons of English longbowmen are easily identified by the distortion of their bones created by the excess of force needed to properly draw and loose arrows. Wildin.

[@VirtuesOfSin]

Does it help that he is a faerie boy who has a bromance with a short hairy dwarf? Joking aside, I think Legolas being "beautiful" is more with him being of Elvish decent (Tolkain mythology being heavily inspired by Norse folklore, making him essentially a Ljosalfar, which were basically the fey-folk of Norse mythos). But the fact that they remained faithful to Tolkien's (stolen) myth and didn't make them super muscular manly men was cool.

[@brunoir283]

i mean the oliphant and the shield-scating arguably did seem a bit forced and therefor made to have him feel badass. bc maybe without those, some 2001-2003 men would have been like "GET THAT NANCY ELF OF MY SCREEN!"

[@sailiealquadacil1284]

Yah. Take Galadriel, for example, and I'm not just talking about what we saw in the Hobbit-movies. She's the most powerful elf in all of Middle-Earth (and the tallest lady). Other bad-ass elven princesses include Lúthien and Idril. And there are some pretty bad-ass human ladies besides Éowyn, too.

[@DeadPyro96]

"My friends, you bow to no one." Probably the only line in any movie that I cry everytime I hear it.

[@mrblue6716]

U messed up the quote bro, but still so true

[@DeadPyro96]

@@mrblue6716 thanks bro, fixed it

[@neuralmute]

Um, "My brother, my Captain, my King." I die like Sean Bean every time.

[@EnjoySackLunch]

Oh good it’s not just me

[@srslydoatm9251]

There's a metal song based off of the movie from the very quote you just...uh, quoted. Its awesome. If you're into metal, I'll gladly link it to you.

[@Grace-tg6rn]

10:14, this reminded me of this quote: "I do not love the sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend." - Faramir (J.R.R. Tolkien)

[@patrickmaxted467]

Cool bit of trivia for you. The singing you hear when Boromir is dying is actually elvish and they're sing this particular quote. Movie when all out on the little details like this.

[@datorin2653]

Which is actually different from their Father. Borormir had a similar out look to his brother. Duty and honor are central to his core. Denethor viewed masculinity in a more dangerous way. Skill at arms was the most important thing to him. Hence why his oldest and most skilled at arms son was favoured.

[@Bovizzett]

Faramir, showing his quality

[@curlychapina]

Faramir is my favourite character of the trilogy.

[@Elheru42]

Faramir in the books is essentially Aragorn. Incredibly noble, courageous and humble. In the movies they had to give him a broken / rejected / selfish arc but I love the Faramir of the books as a stark contrast to Boromir.

[@blueharmony3675]

It can be easy to view Aragorn as having two "contrasting" sides of personality, but in reality, his "manly" traits (bravery, providing, being a protector, etc.) come from the same place as his gentleness: a deep compassion for all. Ultimately, he protects and fights for those who need it because of his compassion and concern for others, not to "prove himself" or to feel great about himself.

[@skylark7921]

One of my favorite Aragorn scenes is weathertop. He’s fighting, he’s being strong and brave and a warrior - to protect people who need protection. Not just the one ring, not just the mission. Protecting *anyone* who can’t protect themselves.

[@mr.mephitis2492]

King David is also a great example of this, though he did have his faults.

[@chrissnyder8108]

When Aragorn lets his lady love Arwen take the riskiest role of conveying Frodo to safety, while 9 undead wraiths pursue her with intent to kill her and kidnap Frodo because he knows that she is right that she has the best chance of succeeding, is the moment I knew him to be the best of men. Normally I hate when movies depart from the books they are based upon, but this was genius.

[@allyjay7395]

Yes beautiful insight

[@HiddenDarkHM]

Though I may not have liked how passive of a role Arwen played later on and how she was over-all handled in the story that was honestly one of the best moments in the entire series when he stepped down so she could rescue Frodo. I agree that was by far one of the best choices the film makers made.

[@chrissnyder8108]

@@HiddenDarkHM Arwen was much reduced in passivity in the films compared to Tolkien's version of her. During the entire LOTR book trilogy she appears twice in two cameo roles, once a non-speaking glimpse of her beside Elrond's throne in Rivendell, and then at the end when she is given to Aragorn in marriage, bearing the banner she made for his house. You get no hint he was even courting her until their marriage; what little description there is of their courtship and married life takes up 2-3 pages in the Appendix to the LOTR. Arwen's greatest moment in the film, rescuing Frodo, was not her accomplishment in the books, but that of one of her male cousins, Glorfindyl. When I first read the books, I was mad at Tolkien for having Aragorn spurn Eowyn's love, for she was clearly the best of all the unmarried women in the books, and my anger was not appeased until I found Arwen's story in the Appendix, and learned of her courage in giving up her immortality for him, knowing it would mean she would die after him, alone, and far removed from everyone she loved. Similarly, Galadriel's rescue of Gandalf and banishment of Sauron was not a story Tolkien wrote, he just alluded to the White Council doing it, and that the Council included Elrond, Saruman, Gandalf, and Galadriel. Peter Jackson made huge departures from Tolkien's books (which he strived so hard to be faithful to) in order to give women much more active roles in his films; Jackson invented Tauriel entirely, she does not appear in the books at all. Eowyn's tale is the only one unchanged from the books, because that is the only woman warrior or hero in the tales, though there is reference to Luthien, Arwen's ancestor, going into the heart of darkness & evil to rescue the Silmarils, the full tale of which is in the Silmarillion. Peter Jackson had considerable chutzpah in altering Tolkien's work so drastically to give women leading roles that they did not have in the books, but he knew that when Tolkien was writing after the World War, women did not take on fighting roles, so he felt that he was being true to Tolkien's respect for women in bowing to modern sensibilities and giving women leadership roles equal or in some respects greater than those of the male leads. And I think that without these tweeks to feminize the films, they would not have been the wide successes they were at the time they were released, nor had the enduring appeal they have to this day.

[@HiddenDarkHM]

@@chrissnyder8108 Yep I am completely aware of all of the above. What I'm saying is I'm very glad for the improvement we had, but that doesn't mean I don't still have complaints about her passivity as a character outside of that one moment. I would have liked to have seen more of the Luthien side of Arwen. I understand that amending the source material in such a way is very major and what was done was very impressive but that doesn't mean I have to settle for it. That's all I mean. 😌

[@MariaBelova]

@@chrissnyder8108 the only correction I would make is that a lot of women indeed fought in the WW2. I am not very familiar with the events of WW2 happening in Europe but in USSR there were a lot of females fighting in the war, not only as nurses but also as pilots (in fact there were several groups of absolutely vicious female pilots feared by nazis), partisans, spies, foot soldiers, snipers etc. But anyways thank you for your insightful comment, I didn't really compare the books and the movies, the points that you have made are eye opening.

[@FairyFaceCake]

Not only does Aragorn respect Eowyn's desire to fight, he also respects more 'feminine' roles. When Eowyn comes to him enraged that she hasn't been permitted by the king to fight at Helm's Deep, Aragorn points out how essential it actually is that someone be there to take care of the people they're fighting for and that she would likely be their final defense if the battle went badly. I always felt that Aragorn would have been happy for her to fight if it had been his place to allow, but he encouraged her to recognise the value of the task she was given. He knows that fighting battles is not the only valuable contribution a person can make.

[@Hunlover123601]

ikr. honestly, id want women like eowyn being my final defense, knowing should i fail, she will do all in her power to protect those remaining

[@samquid2239]

They actually shoot a scene when Orcs enter the cave where the women and children where hiding, and Eowyn is their last defense and she's slaughtering them. Shame that they didn't include that in the movie or even the extended version, but I guess it would have taken away from Gandalf and Eomer arriving to save the day

[@mocharoll3486]

I feel like this is why Eowyn fell for him, he respects her, he doesn't demean her spirit or tell her "it's too dangerous". Wonders, right? Respecting a woman earns her affections! Also man, she killed the Witch-King (with a little help ofc), a few orcs mean nothing to her now, props to Aragorn for realizing her skills!

[@cappujhino]

Ok while that's a valid interpretation let's not forget Tolkien was still pretty sexist.

[@samquid2239]

@@cappujhino I don't know about that.. Look, I'm one of the biggest feminist you'd find (the good kind haha). And I don't find it "sexist" per say. Could he have empowered more women in his books, yes ! would the books have had the same success as it had at the time ? I don't know. We are talking about war and sacrifice and evil forces, etc, that was described as "a man's world" . He was writing in his time, for his time. Despite being a feminist and despite wishing having more badass women characters, I love his books and the world he has created. And it was another time too.. in most books the main character is almost always male. Would the story of Sherlock Homes be more believable if it were a woman ? People would be like "pfeu! nonesense !" We just have to wish that the futurs writer will do the job that their predecessor couldn't do ! :D

[@tristantoole7363]

...you missed the part where Aragorn straps Boromir's bracer on to his own arm to symbolically bring him the rest of the journey.

[@CorvoMcCloud16]

Damn, made me tear up for a second time, very good point though.

[@PlanetLovingMom]

😮..... THAT'S what he does?!?!!! Been a fan since it came out and JUST learned this! 🤦 Ugh, I love Aragorn even more!

[@BrandonFuscoGames]

@@PlanetLovingMom I've watched these movies so many times and only just picked up on this about a month ago, so you're not alone. It's almost impossible to miss him doing it, but the significance of what he's doing is very subtle.

[@solenelivran2617]

Pointed this to my boyfriend and he was like "what? Did he loot Boromir??" 😆

[@thesunnyseries]

🥺

[@jameshebbert7064]

One thing that was left out that should not have been. There is a time to be stoic, and there is a time to be emotional. This was also exemplified by Aragorn. When the fellowship gets out of Moria, after Gandalf "fell", Aragorn keeps his wits and demands they keep moving for their safety. Keep in mind that Gandalf is probably on a short list of people Aragorn looks up too and without a doubt one of his dearest friends. Despite that, he hides his emotions temporarily because he has to take charge. The ability to bury emotions temporarily to be able to function is not always toxic.

[@jasminet3419]

This deserves more upvotes. The wisdom of Aragorn is that he balances his masculine and feminine energies according to his environment. Knowing when to draw strength from which polarity. Perfect example of a complete, balanced, and healthy person.

[@auntiegravity7713]

Upvote from me. Whether it was fighting, leading, or yes.. healing.. ( a trait few talk about but he's a gifted healer in the books).. he knew when it was time to act quickly and practically and when it was time to understand on a deep level what all those moments were for. Aragorn is one of my all time favorite characters.

[@lilu3218]

Es wonderful point

[@TheFren]

Wondering rn if masculinity got toxic when the need for stoicism would go on for too long - long phases of war for example or modern day hard work in mines and factories...

[@EchoesDaBear]

@@auntiegravity7713this was the one point I'm glad they had in the extended version of the movie (as it was such an important and poignant part of the book) - Aragorn healing the wounded! Not just Eowyn, but all the wounded from battle. His humanity & caring nature was on full display. Having it not part of the theatrical version I think was a mistake to completing his character description. He is a all-time fave of mine as well.

[@jarrakul]

Aragorn is so wonderful. You know who else is wonderful? Boromir. As I've grown older, it's become harder and harder for me to see those two, the only two (human) men in the Fellowship, in isolation from one another. Aragorn is effortlessly strong, effortlessly tender, so confident and secure that he can always make the right choices, treat the people around him the way they deserve. Boromir isn't. Boromir embodies both the positives and negatives of masculinity. Strong and protective, yes, but also jealous, controlling, and always insecure. And it literally kills him. Aragorn is who we want to be, but Boromir is who we often are, flawed and fallable. And yet, Boromir is enough. Even as he meets disaster, the nobility of his end inspires Aragorn to be who he was meant to be. Brother, captain, king. The seeds of virtue are planted by the flawed. For Aragorn, being a good man is easy. For Boromir, it's hard, sometimes impossible. But he tries anyway. And it's enough.

[@ShadowyFox_86]

The extended scene makes Boromir so tragic. He wanted to make his people proud, his father proud. He wanted to be a good person, but he stumbled. He stumbled in a big way, but yet redeemed his honor in the end.

[@gellisbarber1786]

Boromir is a good example of how toxic masculinity (in the form of his father) messes up good men. Left to his own devices, Boromir would have made better choices, he would have been the man you saw in the extended edition with Faramir after the battle for Osgiliath. Instead, he was crippled by the pressure to be the "kind of man" his father wanted him to be.

[@AnjaHuebel1]

@@gellisbarber1786 But he also shows his caring side when he helps the hobbits through the snow, for example.

[@brookewoolleywilliams9108]

That is beautiful, thanks for sharing.

[@elliottknifton8902]

@@AnjaHuebel1 and when he stands up for Faramir

[@Wednesdaywoe1975]

The "For Frodo" line is what knocks me down. Not glory. Not honor. For his equally brave friend.

[@thebishopofme]

And you can see he is crying. He knows this is it, this is the last stand, he and all may die, but his love for his brothers, his friends, it's too much to let go of. Aragorn. Just aragorn.

[@holasoyjuansm]

You made tear up a bit.

[@ZemplinTemplar]

Exactly. :-) I also love how the music kicks in right after that, in a really cheerful and glorious variation on the Fellowship theme (even with a choir in the background). If you pay attention to the lyrics, they include: www.amagpiesnest.com/source_songs/ROTK/SSfor_frodo.htm "If by my life or death / I can protect you / I will / I give you my sword / Ringbearer / I give you my word / It cannot be broken / Nor turned aside". It's a lyrical reprise of the promise he gave Frodo back in Rivendell, about protecting the Ringbearer and his friends. What a greatly worded promise to a friend ! :-)

[@laurahill9643]

“I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.” ― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Two Towers

[@CinemaTherapyShow]

Tolkien was brilliant.

[@n4l9bx]

Spoken like a soldier that's been through war

[@dianaprobst3157]

Faramir!

[@tusk70]

That was Faramir

[@lazyshoggy]

The whole Faramir's speech where you find this quote is so great ! I love the part too when he says that he wants to see Gondor loved and respected but not feared, a bit like an old lady for her wisdom, and how he want to see his country not as the best but a gem among other gems. Both proud and humble.

[@Furiousa96]

This is unrelated, but Pippin's face when the crowd bows to him at the coronation is so funny to me. Everyone else is in awe, but Pippin is just like :)

[@NanciBK]

I can hear him thinking: “Well this is nice.”

[@jackthesmoltangerine]

@@NanciBK In Billy Boyd’s voice

[@the_neej]

In the books he is the baby of the hobbits. He’s only 29. He hasn’t even come of age yet; hobbits come of age at 33. For reference Frodo is 50, Sam is 38 and Merry is 36. *ages are all at the outset from The Shire.

[@rossbooth4635]

And he later becomes Thain of the Shire, which is the closest thing they have to a king.

[@TrashPossum420]

"Ah, yes, finally I'm getting the respect I deserve!"

[@violet-trash]

Best of all he's not a condescending asshole, all he does to other men is inspire them.

[@CesarJoel94]

Exactly !

[@manchild3437]

and slice off their heads if they get on his bad side lol

[@tylerellis9097]

@@manchild3437 We don’t talk about that movie Scene

[@michajastrzebski4383]

and still bows down to a worthless elven gal at the end, even tho she was emotionally toxic to him ;) if you love someone, you dont make them jump hoops to "earn love". She loves him not for him, but for what he provides her with.

[@FinlandiaWhiteEyes]

@@michajastrzebski4383 Wow, you have no idea what you are talking about. Arwen is explicitly shown and described to be willing to give everything for Aragorn right away. The conditions placed upon their marriage - that it only be when Sauron is defeated and Aragorn is King, in effect - are placed on him by Elrond, not Arwen.

[@Shatteredlightunderfadingstars]

He's a warrior-poet. Something the world needs more of.

[@EleanorofAquitaine42]

It’s what Richard the Lionheart was, also Julius Caesar, Egill Skallagrimsson, Archilochis.

[@shanosummesteros9563]

Exactly - its an ancient idea and men, especially Western men, need to wake the fuck up and embrace it again. Strength and even killing can be romantic - in the same way, nurturing and even crying can be strong.

[@Felahliir]

Vivec wants to know ypur location

[@Mushimiya]

@@shanosummesteros9563 bruh reality embraces what it needs to embrace. It's all about balance, get your utopian ideals away from me before I get depressed at my lacking in life, idiot.

[@DanielPereira-ey9nt]

Odin was the god of poetry, the idea of virtuous and artistical warriors was plenty common in old mythologies

[@TacoBlend]

The LotR has aged like the finest of wines ever made.

[@Sly-Moose]

Toxic masculinity be like Sauron or Morgoth

[@terryr7622]

@@Sly-Moose Voldemort too. And the Malfoy family

[@athmaid]

Even the CGI still looks good. I mean it's 20 years old and I still see worse in new TV series. Granted much was done practically as well so it's often hard to tell what's CGI

[@ink3539]

@@Sly-Moose I once came across very feminine depictions of Sauron, it made for a very interresting view on the character. I know think of Disney giving queer vibes to villains to antagonize queerness but... that wasn't it. It was a very good depiction and one of my favorites to this day.

[@Sly-Moose]

@@ink3539 That's why Sauron isn't the evil character in my fanfics. Sauron is beautiful and gorgeous with long black hair and fiery eyes in my stories.

[@forbezr3581]

I am so glad they recast aragorn, I cannot imagine anyone but viggo playing him, absolutely perfect for this role

[@Yamaazaka]

They were thinking about Nicholas Cage btw.....

[@Hanfgurkenhasser]

​@@Yamaazaka Lmao that would have been hilarious and also an incredibly stupid pick.

[@rc59191]

​@@Yamaazakaand that Stuart Townsend dude.

[@SamwiseLovesJesus]

WDYM by “Recast”?

[@TheYgds]

When you're a real man you don't spend time and energy trying to convince the world how manly you are.

[@FeuerblutRM]

Somebody should tell the Incels lol

[@cepahreinholt8710]

What is it to be a "real" man or woman and why does it matter so much to so many people? Who wants to be that typical and basic?

[@TheZombieGaming]

@@cepahreinholt8710 I think that comes from a lot of societal expectation and how people gain their value from how the collective views them. Within your culture no doubt there are as set of unspoken rules that men and women follow. (IE where I live if a woman is beating the crap out of you if you act in self-defence, you get your head cracked on the pavement. I have seen it happen. So where I live a man never hits a woman, even if he is being hurt cornered and unable to get away. even if you do get away, your then ridiculed. I live in a rural area.) it's not easy to go against the grain and often when you do and are ridiculed it hurts. Especially if you have friends and family that then change their perspective of you when you go against the grain. Sorry for the long post.

[@CrescentGuard]

To quote Tywin Lannister, "Any man who must say, 'I am the king' is no true king."

[@atomic_wait]

@@CrescentGuard Came here to quote the same line :P

[@anjetto1]

"You bow to no one." Was the exact moment I completely lost my shit in the theatre.

[@jackpowell9276]

awhh shit man its hard to even read.

[@sulkypalms8002]

@@jackpowell9276 I agree. I saw my dad crying to The Return Of The King in the theaters and that felt so good.

[@JessicaMiller-pc4dj]

Every single time 😢.

[@TalynStormcrow]

@@nightfalls5462 poignancy.

[@maximevanhees2049]

@@TalynStormcrow no you're a nancy

[@fannfannmsb]

"he provides for those in his care" pippin : is second breakfast a joke to you

[@CinemaTherapyShow]

Literally made me LOL on that one - Jonathan

[@racheltorres668]

Um, he threw him TWO apples??lol

[@lindseysquire8417]

Merry voice: I don't think he knows about second breakfast

[@T_1.5]

Lindsey Squire elevenses?!? Teatime?!?

[@thomaslombard8058]

@@lindseysquire8417 But the real question is if he knows about third supper

[@XionBledsoe]

Aragorn is the kind of man I hope to be. He is strong and battles through his fear but he's not afraid to show that he is capable of fear, sorrow or care for those he loves.

[@avalonjustin]

You will be! Keep that fine attitude!

[@MichaelLee-tt7gm]

In many ways, Viggo Mortensen is a real-life Aragorn. He's played plenty of masculine roles, but he is also an artist, photographer, and published poet. I once ran into him by accident at a video store where he was distributing a collection of anti-war essays. He also wrote a beautiful foreword to the companion book to the Two Towers, pleading with his reader that, in dangerous times when it is necessary to fight against those who wish us harm, it is even more important to recognize the humanity in ourselves and others.

[@alisaurus4224]

I’ve read that he slept in the wild most nights they were on-location, and adopted the horse that played Brego (and his horse from Hidalgo). He hadn’t even read the LOTR books before being cast, but I can’t imagine anyone else embodying Aragorn more fully. He even composed the melody for his coronation song!

[@MichaelLee-tt7gm]

@@alisaurus4224 On one of the commentaries, he mentioned that his son persuaded him to take the role, since he was a huge fan of the books.

[@silverlily2389]

@@MichaelLee-tt7gm I'm glad his son pursuaded him to audition for the role, he saw Viggo was the perfect one to play Aragorn. 👏

[@gustaf3811]

Yes! Aragorn/Viggo mortensen and Captain America/Chris evans are the real role models when it comes to masculinity. They symbolize that fatherly side all men would be great men if they had it in their lives. I wish they were talked about more in terms of masculinity, these two show such humility and confidence as actors. Chris Stood up to Trump when everyone else was quite. He has always been standing up for the LBTQ community and human rights. He doesn't just like it on social medias and then stop carrying about it, he uses his platform for change in societies.

[@CrisValentina88]

I also love the story about him training with the sword on his off-days, and some neighbors called the police on him, because they were freaked out. He took it lightly, my fellow dane.

[@ljss6805]

I had a friend who said he couldn't watch LOTR with anyone else because he cried when he watched it and didn't want people to think he was gay. THAT is the effect of toxic masculinity.

[@lgene235]

Skibi what are you on about?

[@Nerobyrne]

I found the perfect way to counter that is "If crying makes me gay, I don't want to be straight." But you can also got for a more serious breakdown. I mean, if you love women's bodies, you love sex with women, you want to marry a woman, and NOT a man, how can you be gay?

[@dovee1]

@@Nerobyrne exactly. You don't like men. You're not gay. We've all just categorised these acts and behaviours and personalities as gay. And if you were, then it doesn't matter. It's not a weakness.

[@thechosenvoice3472]

exactly right

[@geoffreygraves848]

that’s called... insecurity

[@ellybean7354]

I've seen this quote a lot "I don;t blame Disney for my high standards in men, I blame Tolkien" I'm so happy to have this media of wonderful, healthy masculine men. Characters like this really are a good way to develop standards.

[@audreydimmel6674]

Aragorn was my first love. To say that he made my standards high is an understatement.

[@g.d.graham2446]

Agreed

[@satana8157]

I think in the past it was more acceptable for warrior men to cry, since they already shown how brave they are in battlefield, they could just cry and nobody could call them weak. There is this epic poetry book called Persian Book of The Kings, which is a 1000 year old book but its original content are much older, and There is some of the most out of worldly warriors in it, with not a shred of fear going to battle. There is many deaths in this book, and every time this happens this masculine powerful warriors just cry and mourn and it's not read as something weird.

[@MikaMoonlight]

@@satana8157 I noticed that aswell in the Iliad, you have the toughest greek warriors actually weeping in dispair after a beloved one dies

[@gatobuho-]

for me it is a combination of Jane Auten and Tolkien.

[@tkinsey3]

Aragorn is certainly the prototype for this discussion, but I have to also give a shout-out to Frodo and Sam for at minimum showing us what brotherly affection looks like. I was 14, 15, and 16 when these films came out, and I was obsessed with them. (Still am). But I also very clearly recall, especially after Return of the King, the amount of commentary about whether Sam and Frodo were gay. Despite the fact that Sam clearly planned to marry Rosie. It was like people (mainly men) just could not fathom the love and affection that these two had for each other not also being sexual. Still drives me crazy.

[@12classics39]

‘Are they gay?’ is really the wrong way to word that suggestion, because Sam’s feelings for Rosie are very real, which means he isn’t gay. But bisexuality is still a thing. I think Frodo and Sam’s relationship is special because it can be seen/interpreted in different ways and be powerful and special no matter which way. The suggestion that they might have romantic feelings for each other doesn’t ‘sexualize’ their relationship, as romance isn’t always tied to sex. Asexuality is a thing, too. On the other hand, their ability to be openly emotional and affectionate towards each other doesn’t have to mean that there’s anything more than platonic love between them. The bond that they share is really the kind that transcends a label. No matter how you want to look at it, it’s a connection between souls. It’s love, pure and simple.

[@tkinsey3]

@@12classics39 This is great additional context, thank you!

[@LarrySonOfMilton]

I too was obsessed with Frodo and Sam as a child and teen-as a queer man, I read them as gay (Sam as bisexual). I did not have the words for it back then, but they clearly demonstrated to me the representation of true love between men that I'd been unable to find in any other media-an epic devotion between partners (I can't carry it for you but I can carry you!), an unconditional tenderness, and the bleak heartbreak of losing one another... without violent homophobia being part of the storyline to boot. It was the sort of romantic love I aspired to have. I didn't even see Rosie as an obstacle to this interpretation-Sam is allowed to have multiple loves in his life. I love that like 12classics39 said, their relationship is special precisely *because* it can be interpreted either which way and still be powerful. Men who need examples of brotherly love will find it here, and men who need examples of queer love will find it here-this story of pure and simple love allows us to take from it what we need. But I will say I share your annoyance at insecure men using the "gay" interpretation as a way to snicker away their discomfort with seeing such tenderness displayed on screen. People who used queerness as a way to cheapen their connection ("oh, Sam was such a gay simp for Frodo that's why he followed him everywhere"), treating them like a joke as a way to distance themselves from any association with being as devoted as Sam, with being as vulnerable as Frodo, as though their love was something impossible for them instead of something aspirational for any man, queer or otherwise. The gay interpretation cheapens their connection only to men who think queer love is cheap, to men who lack the courage to be loving because their fear of being misread as gay tragically overshadows their love for their brothers and close male friends. I think both you and I, OP, are united in our disdain for these sorts.

[@tkinsey3]

@@LarrySonOfMilton Thanks for sharing that context and insight. I hope I did not come across as angry that Sam/Frodo could be interpreted that way by the LGBTQ+ community (especially young people who I imagine crave that sort of representation). As you said - my anger was at homophobes interpreting the relationship that way and then using that as a reason to dismiss or belittle the film and its fans. No matter how you view it, friendship or more, Sam and Frodo's relationship in the films is beautiful and loving, and an example of the way people should treat each other.

[@sageof6pandas233]

I completely agree, sexuality does not have to be at the heart of every character interraction and relationship, Tolkien was a soldier that saw the most brutal warefare in human history, he knows what it means to love your comrades as they are your brothers. It does their relationship a great disservice to call it romantic, Sam and Frodo are men bound together by loyalty, and duty. It says a lot about my current generation (gen z ) that many of us cannot fathom having a deep relationship with another person and not be romantic, that the only reason Sam could possibly be following frodo is out of a sense of lust or attraction. I am not by any means saying that being gay is bad, simply that romantic love is not the only form of love, and that our current generations are forgetting what loyalty is, and what it means to love someone without being attracted to them. We can blame mysogyny, homophobia, leftist social degeneration, or any number of things, regardless of who caused this, its our responsibility to teach and show eachother that there can be love and loyalty outside of romance or blood, be kind to eachother, even if you hate them, even if you find them annoying, just as frodo shows kindness to golum, and just as samwise shows loyalty to frodo.

[@purplexninjamom]

I love that Eowyn and Aragorn didn´t end up together It sends the right message. People should be like this to each other without automatically forming a couple.

[@tombraiderstrums09]

Oh absolutely. There’s so much that’s good about it. Aragorn’s kindness to her throughout, even in his gentle rejection: “I cannot give you what you seek.” His faithfulness to Arwen. Her grieving, but then moving on to victories and other loves.

[@Confusion7182]

Yes! Them not ending up together is very important for her arc. Aragorn embodied the freedom she wanted, and she thought he could give it to her. She glorified war and attaching to Aragorn was part of that. Faramir puts it better than I can: she loved him in admiration, as a young soldier to a great captain. As she grows during the story and makes her own path to eventual happiness, it's no longer natural for her to end up with the person whom she loved as a reaction to her shitty situation at the time.

[@dariusbrock2713]

I kinda hoped we could see more of Faramir and Eowyn. Cause the movie just made it look like Eowyn fawned over the next single guy she saw😂

[@BonnieHalfElven]

This is still a problem in today's society. There are many men whom I respect and would love to be friends with, but I am not seen as an equal. I can't be "one of the guys." I've had some good female-male relationships over the years, but I think some men worry that I'm flirting or something. In reality, I'm not really interested in a man (or anyone) in that way anymore.

[@jakubgrzybek6181]

Aragorn doesn't end up with Eowyn, because he already has Arwen that he knew since childhood, which is parallel to Beren and Luthien another mortal and elf couple.

[@loser0in0love]

I'm happy to see that there are still people to find who like Aragorn because of the fact that he is such a kind, caring and brave man. In times of Game of Thrones etc. I often hear people call heroes like Aragorn "boring", and that he is too "perfect". What? First: He isn't perfect at all (for example, when the fellowship loses Gandalf in Moria, he struggles hard to take a decision about their further steps). And second: In what sad kind of world do we live in, where decent people are BORING?! Trying to do the right thing doesn't mean to be flawless, and it doesn't keep you from failing. You can still be an interesting character without being an asshole.

[@mrinalini9112]

Ehh I try not to take GoT fans too seriously. Majority of fans started watching it for hot naked ladies and gore. But honestly Aragorn over James Bond, and captain America over tony Stark, always.

[@loser0in0love]

@@mrinalini9112 Definitely =D

[@laurenceperkins7468]

From "Man of LaMancha," an adaptation of Don Quixote: "But -- maddest of all -- is to see life 'as it is' and not 'as it should be.'

[@Fifi-jb3yx]

Honestly Ned Stark was also boring by peoples standard but him and Aragorn would be my go to guy. They'd get along great too.

[@Marievska]

@@mrinalini9112 Are there any GoT fans left anyway?

[@Kay2be2mr]

And the thing is Viggo Mortensen really is like this. He's so macho. He knows how to hunt and fish and survive in the wild on his own. Every LOTR fan knows all the injuries he had on set and still wanted to keep going. Stunt doubles were in awe of him and paid tribute to him when they wrapped. And yet he's such an artistic soul. He's a painter, and photographer, he also writes poetry.

[@quillpen815]

Viggo is indeed like this. Wonderfully artistic, hard-working and searching kind of man. He took the role because his son wanted to see him be Aragorn, but I think his son saw a lot of Aragorn in his father too.

[@DieAlteistwiederda]

He just was the perfect choice for this character because their personalities are that similar. It's nice to see a character you love for these wonderful traits and then the actor behind them is just as great. Wish that was always the case.

[@roddo1955]

Yup! I'm also a massive fan of the movies. OFCOURSE I have the Extended boxset with the appendices. I have to say that, the appendices are just as enjoyable as the movies. The respect people in cast and crew had for Viggo was very telling of his character. I love how the stuntpeople called him 'King'. He did not demand respect. He commanded it through leading by example. He would just keep going and going and others followed. And he'd always show his deep appreciation for peoplr going along with him, well beyond their own limits.

[@blitva1]

And he saved the horses, too

[@Kay2be2mr]

@@blitva1 Yes!!

[@TK_Brainslug]

Aragorn's "You bow to no-one" always breaks me. It's the only scene I always cry

[@CinemaTherapyShow]

I'll never not cry at that scene.

[@katiewest7908]

My also ugly face cry is when Sam says he can carry Frodo..the music swells and so do my eyes.

[@Hartofafool]

I'd love to see a positive masculine break down with Uncle Iroh from Avatar Cause he is, to me, the epitome of masculine and yet still balanced and non-toxic

[@kurtismeinhardt68]

Agreed! Iroh changed my life!

[@teslaromans1023]

Iroh is the best role model

[@serpentinewolf7085]

He’s not masculine, he’s a good father. Masculine and feminine are made up terms.

[@Hartofafool]

@@serpentinewolf7085 I mean... Yeah Of course they're made up. But that's not really the discussion being had rn. Because while they're made up terms that have real societal impact due to the power humans have given them over our existence and which can be tangibly examined withing the world and need to be thought critically in order to make their concepts not represent a damaging and toxic ideal especially for kids. Which is why we need better more positive masculine roles to redirect that ideal

[@serpentinewolf7085]

@@Hartofafool I think we need to get rid of masculine and feminine as something we teach period. Just teach good shit to little boys and girls without labeling it. It’s demeaning. Look up feminine traits, none are good. It’s all shit. Especially together in their respective groups.

[@Ninztime]

“Not all men” -You’re right, Aragorn Son of Arathorn would never

[@lauraserpalucio6059]

my fave comment here

[@Jac0bIAm]

Lmao

[@Nightlady0228]

Faramir, Son of Denethor also would never. Princes among men, those two 🤤

[@kyleshea384]

@@Nightlady0228 Clark Kent would never

[@angel6017]

This comment is so true tho! ✋🏽😂

[@benjaminthibieroz4155]

"he can decapitate orcs and write poetry. They're not mutually exclusive." Historical facts: most of warriors cast (samuraïs notably) were known to also engage in various forms of art as part of their training, including poetry and calligraphy. Tolkien definitely knew His History

[@michaelt.5672]

Another great example that Tolkien was definetly familiar with; King David from the Bible. I mean, he was both a badass warrior that took on a giant and led armies, but also a harp player and composer. And his friendship with Jonathan is about as close as platonic friendships can get.

[@josephmorse3089]

@@michaelt.5672 "Friendship" the subtext absolutely says they were lovers

[@michaelt.5672]

@@josephmorse3089 You do realise you're just doing a politer version of the "that's so gay", right? Trying to read subtext into a story that was written by an ancient culture with it's own norms and forms of expressions is a seriously iffy buisness. And when said text was written by a culture that had no tolerance for homosexuality, reading a gay relationship into it is just wishful thinking.

[@dekisatria1233]

@@josephmorse3089 being close with your friend not always mean you are gay dude. Before this lgbt whatever it is, me and my friends just hangout, sleep, eat in the same plate just because we are close. Now people said it gay

[@Fifi-jb3yx]

Arab warriors used to recite poetry all the time, and write it too.

[@suzzannegabel1636]

Aragorn was so humble and able to show gratitude to others that he bowed the knee to Frodo and Sam at his own coronation. That was a powerful moment.

[@danielleking262]

Blew me away!!!

[@father_mae_i]

It makes me cry every time

[@Langley_Ackerman19]

​@@father_mae_iditto and I'm not embarassed by one bit

[@vgverog]

Shield-maiden is a scandinavian female warrior. Aragorn is quite explicitely aknowledging Eowyn as a fellow warrior.

[@hugoakerlund5114]

Well they're fictional norse female warriors.

[@daanvanrijn4117]

No the term shield maiden was common omong gallic and germanic tribes as well from about 350BC to 50 AD

[@hugoakerlund5114]

@@daanvanrijn4117 and where did you read that?

[@luc410]

@@hugoakerlund5114 people just makin shit up

[@vgverog]

@@daanvanrijn4117 Shield-Maiden is a translation/ description of the word "Skjaldmö" which is from Viking mythology and legends. The Valkyries are actually inspired by the songs about those warrior maiden harboring a shield. The term probably traveled through different cultures with the rest of the folklore.

[@daniellespencer5026]

I'd never understood Eowyn's expression in that scene until now. Most of her conversations about her desire to fight have probably been centered around telling her she can't, she shouldn't etc. That must be why she looks so defiant: she's expecting this interaction to be more of the same. She almost seems like she doesn't know how to respond to acceptance of her warrior goals because she's never gotten it.

[@wilmascholte7607]

That's why she speaks so curtly, matter of factly about even if you don't know how to use a sword, you can still die upon them. Like "I know you're going to give me crap over this, but this is how I feel."

[@daniellespencer5026]

@@wilmascholte7607 I think you're absolutely right.

[@HazmatSuitUp]

100%

[@fallingleaf5859]

Yes! Thank you for your enlightment! This dialogue had always get me confused, now I understand!

[@Harrowed2TheMind]

@@fallingleaf5859 Same. Thanks for all of your insights!

[@ainnothin9854]

"Both men and women can be masculine and feminine." Thank you

[@serpentinewolf7085]

I just find them dumb groups that are bs. Gender stereotypes at best.

[@grandmamustaine7215]

@@r24m61 Kurt Cobain would disagree with you

[@unverifiedbiotic]

@@serpentinewolf7085 What's dumb about being what you want to be?

[@serpentinewolf7085]

@@unverifiedbiotic Nothing. But the words and meanings behind those two terms are inaccurate, offensive, and false. People misuse the terms and romanticize them. When the actual descriptions portray men as emotionless asshole and women as creatures barely smart enough to be human that only live to serve. And if you perfectly fit them or half of them you need to get your head checked. That’s what I was saying. Be what you want, but if you look exactly like what those descriptions portray who you are is a lousy shit.

[@ms.bubs4fun506]

Gender roles come from a real place. Men and women are different.

[@irishskier9432]

You have so clearly expressed the true nature of Aragorn, I cant begin to describe how appreciative I am for this

[@CinemaTherapyShow]

Thanks for watching!

[@felicityfield4444]

I absolutely love the care that Viggo put into his acting as Aragorn especially in scenes with Eowyn because even the smallest tonal shift could have made his lines sound patronising or degrading, but he strikes the perfect tonal balance to make them sound acknowledging and as if he's talking to an equal - to make them sound like Aragorn rather than arrogant.

[@kirsten1468]

Omg this comment is gold. Love that you ended in a pun lmao.

[@WolfFireheart]

Just to add a little about how much effort Viggo put into portraying Aragon. Against the big uruk-hai that killed Boromir, the orc actor was supposed to throw the knife right next to Viggo, but because of, I believe the fake blood, the knife slipped out of his hand and flew RIGHT at Viggos face. And he was able to use his sword to deflect the knife. It was so good, that, that, is the take we actually see in the movie. Because no way were they going to intentionally do that shot again xD

[@TheNormExperience]

“Be Aragorn, Not Arrogant” needs to be a goddamn throw pillow you absolute genius.

[@teayabrown3924]

I'm glad that the role went to Viggo eventually. It was originally casted to be Stuart Townsend in the role, who was at the height of his popularity. He even filmed some parts. But, they didn't like his attitude, and he refused any of the training (horseback riding and fight choreography), seeming as though he didn't want to actually be there. They eventually tried the role with Viggo. During the scene with the Nazgul, they realized that they couldn't see anyone else being a better suit for the role.

[@g.d.graham2446]

Exactly

[@mrv2174]

My grandpa killed Nazi's and cried when he missed my grandma. He fought in war and held me when i cried. He was brave and kind. I've rejected this concept of "alpha" for as long as it's been known to me. Your emotions are your strength. You don't fight to be a hero. You fight to protect what you love.

[@IndianaJonesTDH]

fronteast the on commies killed grandfathergreatMein

[@mrv2174]

@@Szolrykor well. He was black. So...

[@paulhuedepohl1661]

@@Szolrykor Hitler drank water. Saul drinks water. Saul is literally Hitler.

[@eminemilly]

@@Szolrykor so morals then emotions?

[@veritasabsoluta4285]

@@Szolrykor If he was a white supremacist, why would he fight to kill other white people?

[@chriskelly3481]

"You can decapitate Orcs and write poetry." "Yeah. They're not mutually exclusive." 😆👍

[@ismata3274]

Many emperor's were poets, and did lead wars. So that part is not nonrealistic. 👍

[@trevorlange]

I immediately thought of it as being the recruitment slogan for bard college

[@robert47743]

@@trevorlange yeah

[@legregio2]

Actually several cultures see the warrior-poet as the ideal every man should aspire. The samurai, the medival knights, Cyrano de Bergerac...

[@edinscot56789]

Or write poems about decapitating orcs

[@joygernautm6641]

What I also love about Aragorn is that he is not threatened when women are strong Warriors. He doesn’t see a woman’s competency as a competition to his masculinity. When Arwin takes Frodo to escape, he trusts her. He knows she is capable. He admires Eowins strength and skill with a sword.

[@gailcbull]

@15:04 - Important distinction: Aragorn didn't just "get the girl". He marries his life long friend who just happens to be an elf princess.

[@essencewithin5978]

I agree. And I totally love the scene that comes before, when it is revealed that Arwen is there. This is the scene where I really started to really like Aragorn. It was a wonderful decision (whether it was the actor's or the director's I don't know) to portray Aragorn as just totally, genuinely happy to see her - not proud or honoured because he "won" her.

[@michajastrzebski4383]

who literally did nothing in return ;) she is the toxic one here.

[@lunab541]

@@michajastrzebski4383 what do you mean by that?

[@maarakailet1]

@@michajastrzebski4383 To be fair, she is a couple thousand years older than him. My BF freaked out when I told him that. Now he says LoTR just freaks him out.

[@byMidnyt]

@@essencewithin5978 This is one of my favorite scenes as well. You've got to think that at this point, Aragorn doesn't even know what's happened to her. He's been told that she's dying (when Elrond brings him the sword) and that her fate is tied to that of the ring. Sauron also taunts him with an image of her where she appears dead. The Evenstar falls and shatters. It always seemed to me that at this point, when he leads the way to the Black Gates, that he believes her to be dead. So, for her to appear, healthy and whole, before him isn't something that even crossed his mind. The emotion, when he sees her and how tentative she is at seeing him, of him setting aside that banner and kissing her like there's no tomorrow gets me every time.

[@shadowbrain4814]

Aragorn's coronation is one of my favorite scenes. He had every right to keep that scene all about him, but that line "you bow to no one" and him bowing? The *King of Gondor* bowing to these small Hobbits, showing them that much respect, almost deference? He is recognizing that they were the true reason Gondor even still stood. He may have led that army against the Orcs in Mordor, but the Hobbits were the ones who destroyed Sauron, and he recognizes how enormous an accomplishment that is. Everything about that scene makes me cry now that I see just how beautiful every part of that scene is.

[@fishraposo7192]

They did what even sauron thought impossible. They truly bow to no one

[@MiracleWinchester]

Gonna make me cry again

[@peteh4355]

Also visually seeing the smoll hobbits stand taller above the people invited to a coronation is just amazing. For the whole trilogy you're used to them looking so small till now..

[@MorgulLord7]

I can't watch that scene or Sam carrying Frodo without tearing up. Because Aragorn and the other soldiers (at least to a degree) signed up for the battles, the wars, the grim fighting. But the hobbits aren't soldiers and they never wanted to sign up for that life, but they went through it anyway. They were perhaps the most scared of all those in the series due to inexperience and unpreparedness, and yet they never gave up, and that's why the scenes honouring them always shed such a tear. They are true courage - not the absence of fear but feeling it and still moving forward anyway.

[@hollosphere]

@Martin Evensen I love that part, too. Gandalf knows they can handle things themselves, as well, even if they don't (yet). The ending, with the world being saved, "...but not for me," as Frodo says, is such a lovely blend of triumph and sadness. The victories came at a high cost for many; choices leading inexorably to consequences. There are many problems with the book, I know people will say, but I will love it always.

[@tropezando]

Women are emotional, men are emotional, and I'm the most emotional because of that Boromir death scene ;_____;

[@conforzo]

Toxic masculinity is when you don't want to cry about really sad stuff. Toxic femininity is when you cry about things not even remotely sad.

[@banjoc222]

Your user photo is perfect for this

[@Fantallana]

Contrapunctus XV clearest examples of toxic masculinity and femininity, is probably when people feel they have to perform certain roles and traits in order to be “proper” men and women. Like... being conditioned into gender roles that limit us, and are toxic to ourselves and/or the people around us. I don’t think a man being less inclined to cry is always a bad thing (some people just don’t cry easy) and likewise, a woman who cries a lot isn’t “toxic” either. Fem and Masc are mostly social constructs, and most social constructs and gender roles that women are conditioned to perform, are based around being kind, nurturing, emotional, sweet, supporting her man and family, stuff like that. Not a lot of “selfish” roles, but a lot of self-harming selflessness. So I think toxic femininity is more commonly toxic to the person performing it, than to the people around her. When a woman suppresses her own needs and feelings because she doesn’t want to be seen as a “nag” or “harpy”, and wants to be a supportive, cheer-bringing home maker, even if that means pretending she’s ok (for the sake of her family’s comfort) when she isn’t actually ok at all... that’s toxic femininity. It harms her. This isn’t to say women can’t be toxic to the people around them. Being a selfish asshole is universal. But we don’t really see being selfish, rude, angry, loud, or a brute as “feminine” traits, so saying a woman got that way through feminine social conditioning and gender roles wouldn’t make much sense. This is why toxic masculinity is easier to talk about I guess: it’s more often toxic to yourself AND other people, rather than just yourself, so it’s easier to identify.

[@conforzo]

@@Fantallana Although it's a mistake to think the Noble savage existed in a pre-gender paradigm where there were no difference between men and women. What's socially constructed is the way gender roles are manifested but gender roles are in the end a by-product of our human evolution. We humans haven't evolved much through the last 10,000 years, our brains are still wired to be tribal nomads.

[@blauespony1013]

Me: "I can do this, I don't have to cr...." Boromoir: "... my king." Me: "Nope, I can't."

[@jesstyncampbell2574]

Thank you so much!!! As a girl, I am always looking for this in a man and it's sad how rare it seems to be. To all the guys, what was just covered in this video is the dream of more girls than you might think. Please don't think that all girls expect you to hide your tough, brave, respectful, chivalrous, masculine side because somehow it puts her down. It doesn't. Anyone who believes that true, nontoxic masculinity is a threat to femininity (or vice versa) is deeply mistaken. Don't be afraid to be the strong, kind, and, yes, allowed-to-be-human men you were born to be.

[@alang.2054]

Thank you for this words!

[@painunending4610]

You gotta realise that IRL people are much more nuanced and grey. Aragon is a fictional character and thus can be constructed perfectly, which isn't a luxury real people can afford. Real people have struggles and times when they can get ugly Women are not a monolith. They don't all want the same thing. For every woman out there whos attracted to an Aragorn-type there is one who isn't Also do you ever think about what the men want? We shouldn't relate what men want to be to what women find the most attractive, we've done that too much already. Listen to men

[@jesstyncampbell2574]

@@painunending4610 I totally get where you're coming from. I was careful in my comment not to say that ALL girls want that in a man, but that not all of them don't, either. I also 100% acknowledge that no man is the perfect prince charming that can be created in books. Aragorn himself wasn't perfect, either; he got angry, he lashed out, he made mistakes. Often, what a person does in the aftermath of their mistakes and wrongdoings is what makes them great. That's why I added the "allowed-to-be-human" part, since we don't expect anyone to be perfect. I apologize if my comment gave the wrong message. I'm not pressuring every man to be this way if he doesn't feel called to. I just wanted to reach out to the men who might feel these kinds of qualities calling them but feel pressured to hide it because of prominent feminist messages. I absolutely care what the men want and I am a firm believer that we shouldn't change ourselves just to please other people. Every man presents his masculinity in a different way that is unique to him. So maybe I should rephrase what I said in the first comment and instead invite everyone, not just men, to allow themselves to be who they really feel they are called by God to be, regardless of the expectations or criticisms around them. Yes, I am listening to men and genuinely want to get their side, too. But just like women, they don't all want or represent all of the same things. This whole video was just about two men talking about how great of a person Aragorn is. You could very well find two men who think the opposite. Whenever one person expresses their opinion, there will always be someone who opposes them. This comment was meant to be for the people who needed it; I'm sorry if anyone felt pressure to be something they're not. That is not what I intended. God bless!!

[@davidssubwaycookies190]

@@jesstyncampbell2574 very aware post I like your way of thinking!

[@CoolArrow78233]

Modern women rarely are deserving of such a man these days. Women cannot expect to marry a traditional man when they themselves don't abide by what it means to be a traditional woman.

[@adoresbylaures]

on the topic of men not being allowed to cry/show their emotions: some of my friends hate that Sam cries a lot in the movie and all I have to say is "so what, he's not. allowed to cry? I think if you went through the same shit he did you'd probably cry a lot too"

[@BBnSam1215]

Samwise is the most determined and steadfast friend in fiction. I couldn’t give a hairy rat’s butthole if he cries in the movie. Hence, my dog’s name is Samwise.

[@aliciacastillerogomez6178]

Probably they would cry even more hahahaha

[@aliciacastillerogomez6178]

@Romanian In Germany Exactly, it's completely natural :D

[@CuteArwen]

Exactly. Like guy is walking to a literal Mordor without food but with a creature who is planning to kill him, and his very best friend in the whole world is constantly trying to die. Yeah, I think there's plenty of reasons to CRY.

[@wraithking3749]

It never bothered me that he cried its very understandable. And ive watched the Lord of the rings movies in the cinema back then. No one in the cinema ever said something everyone was just to captivated by the movies.

[@DrDolan2000]

"Real men aren't afraid of anything" Okay, so then you shouldn't be "afraid" to show emotion

[@sjs9698]

yep be strong enough to show vulnerability, be wise enough to acknowledge how foolish you are ^^

[@egrassa1480]

That's a dumb statement. Real men afraid of many things, but pull through not matter how scared they are. Showing vulnerability is a choice, also why would you show your vulnerability to every random person, it's for your close ones

[@stephanielopez8347]

@@egrassa1480 No one was saying that being vulnerable wasn’t a choice but the “pulling through” is really just repressing and pushing down emotions which is isn’t healthy for any gender. The point of this video was literally that you can be vulnerable and that it doesn’t take away from strength, but adds to it. Also no one was saying to be vulnerable with every random person either.

[@egrassa1480]

@@stephanielopez8347 I'm saying men know better about their emotions and how to handle them. Same can be said about woman emotions. Every man can decide for himself is it better for him to be "vulnerable" or not

[@stephanielopez8347]

@@egrassa1480 like I said, no ones forcing men to be vulnerable or telling them how to handle their emotions . It’s just saying that men should feel free to express their emotions without feeling shame or like it makes them any less of a man when it just makes them human.

[@Fuzz32]

My mom once referred to him as a Servant King. That’s to say, a king who rules out of a sense of duty to his people and their needs rather than for his own ego. If only we had such leaders today.

[@laurenhunt9363]

Macron gave his salary as france's president to help end the protests, what a year o two ago, that literally shut down france. He put his people's interest first

[@JamesRDavenport]

I believe Toilken's direct inspiration for Aragorn was Christ. A true king must serve and suffer for those whom he loves. True glory only comes from service first.

[@jakew7982]

That’s pretty much the motto at Sandhurst and the officer class ‘serve to lead’.

[@JamesRDavenport]

@@jakew7982 Yessir. (Didn't attend Sandhurst, other side of the Pond, but a fellow son from a military family. Pretty much our motto too.)

[@dottyjyoung]

Daaaaaaamn! Perfection.

[@Oleoay]

Aragorn is a true man because he knows he doesn’t always have to be THE MAN. He trusts Eowyn to save Frodo, he trusts in Frodo’s decision to take the Ring himself, he respects and follows Theoden’s decision to go to Helms Deep even if he doesn’t agree. He doesn’t let his own ego get in the way and only needs to impress his will either when facing Sauron and his minions or when others agree willingly to follow him.

[@LivFP]

There are PLENTY of moments where I cry for LOTR but when Aragorn says "My friends, you bow to no one" it always hits me so hard, such a powerful scene and it speaks volumes of Aragorn's character.

[@g.d.graham2446]

Yes

[@Jose-sx4ql]

My favorite line in the entire series it gets me every time

[@ShadowyFox_86]

That scene made so many men in the theater I was at weep. An area that was full of toxic masculinity had the most macho looking men openly sobbing.

[@alexh2947]

Ack that scene has either been ruined or enhanced to me thanks to the killian experience video.

[@brandonbuchner1771]

I don't even have to WATCH the scene to get teary eyed. I was just listening to this episode and it was like a Pavlovian response.

[@tinypirate3109]

I’m a simple person. I see Aragorn, I click.

[@leonoresalmantine]

Hahaha damn right.

[@CPera1127]

I mean... I don't blame you

[@mamajenkins1981]

LOL I did too

[@swf2006]

Yeah, me too.

[@preciousypenguino]

Simple yet wise

[@joanna_vanderhoeven]

I think Viggo Mortensen as a person, and not just his character Aragorn, defies toxic masculinity. He's just a great human being.

[@Jorg-ug3ie]

Preach Joanna, preach Girl!!

[@gudboah4688]

Ya boy loves to make out with men (billy Boyd) and is attracted to men with beards. He’s a total dude.

[@Jorg-ug3ie]

@@gudboah4688 Yes he is, not afraid to show his 'softer' side, and SO WHAT if he's queer or not? Jealous, much...?

[@mrinalini9112]

@@grahamduff7383 losers like you are the reason people make fun of social justice and movements. Like he was literally giving an example why it's a wrong word and rather than n word he said it aloud. You know in anything, context matters. The dude is literally one of the most intelligent woke people, and he's been like this before it's a fucking fashion.

[@EmoBearRights]

He loves animals too - he bought Aragon's horse after filming - he's a great dude.

[@jenniferneuensmorgan9272]

“A Shield Maiden of Rohan.” He was calling her a Valkyrie. Which is just bloody awesome. ❤️❤️❤️

[@willow3564]

I am biologically female and have what most people would call very feminine and "girly" traits. I cry, I'm very emotional, my love language is physical touch. I am very much a stereotype in some ways- from Venus. I did not get these traits from my mom, tho. I got these traits from my dad. My dad knows how to make a fire, fight/defend himself, and is very brave and ambisious, but he is also passionate, caring, loving, hugger, emotional, and cries openly. My dad got bullied a lot as a kid for being what most people see as feminine, and he had much more female friends than male friends. My dad is masculine in every way and I love him for it all.

[@jenniferchaulam]

/that is so sweet.

[@fireandsugar2625]

That's so lovely 💖

[@erythrozyt1168]

Your dad is Aragorn

[@willow3564]

@@erythrozyt1168 lmaoooo, love that

[@jenniferchaulam]

Willow /yes. i can assure that he has decapitated orks and write poetry

[@magnisky]

As a woman, when I see a man cry, I feel relief that he was able to get everything he is feeling out. Also, it speaks to his genuine soul, it’s more trustworthy.

[@LukeZwarteVacht]

It'd be great if my exes felt that way instead of, you know, dumping me.

[@ASMRyouVEGANyet]

Well sometimes it's fake crying. So be careful.

[@allyjay7395]

Sounds sadistic but it is my goal to make men cry when I am in a relationship just to see if they even have feelings. Like if we watch a tear jerking movie and it doesnt phase you, you're a lizard person.

[@magnisky]

@@allyjay7395 hahaha, I think you are trying find out if the man is alive or not.

[@nanahuatli2144]

And if you cry and he also cries, you're bonding on a deep level and validating each other's feelings, and that's wonderful.

[@CatsandDragons7]

The part where Aragorn kisses Boromir on the forehead gives me chills every time. It’s such a beautifully emotional moment between brothers. More movies need scenes like that.

[@ghyslainabel]

This scene works so well in part because of the callback to a previous scene, "Gondor has no king, Gondor needs no king.".

[@Nerobyrne]

@@ghyslainabel There are many prejudices that are overcome during the long journey in this story, and I'm glad Jackson at least tried to show that. Like the scene where Gimli and Legolas share a moment that ended up becoming a huge meme ^.^ That was especially powerful because it's about overcoming racial prejudice and stereotypes, whereas Aragorn and Boromir are more about accepting rightful kingship, which I'm less stoked about. Still, Aragorn convinced him not by just being born to the right parents, but by showing valor and honor.

[@namelessghoul746]

Aragorn is SUPER interesting for a lot of larger reasons too! Notice how honest he is about everything--his emotions, himself, etc. He is open with his loves, his losses, his goals. This is especially key in understanding the history of Middle Earth; specifically, how Mordor was able to rise because Isildur was greedy and kept the ring. By contrast Aragorn is true and honest. He personifies the *best* of being (hu)man, and the transition from Middle Earth being led by elves to the rise of the kingdom of Man into a new age, the idea that "men" are now worthy to lead. Aragorn is straight up amazing.

[@Elheru42]

This week my 15 year old son was placed in a drama group to write a short play with 2 girls and another boy. The boy has suffered from mental health issues and the class have become aware of his suicidal thoughts. The 2 girls decided it was funny to try to write the script about suicide with constant mockery of the troubled boy. My son absolutely lost it with them. He is a musical theatre fan and musicals like Dear Even Hansen have really impacted him. My son stood there and told them that their little jokes could have serious consequences. He then took the other boy under his wing to make sure he was okay. Later the 2 girls apologised to the boy. I never hear about students in highschool standing up to the crowd and actually trying to help people who are struggling. My son is only 15 but he is the best man I know. I am one proud Dad.

[@k.v.7681]

You'd be surprised how many teens do stand up. You should be proud of your son, no question about it. But that behaviour is more common than you might think. If anything, it's more common among teenagers than it is among adults, if sometimes shown in an unhealthy fashion. It's in the nature of teenagers to go against the grain, even with their peers. It's another side of group dynamics.

[@gudboah4688]

You’re raising a good man. Well done :)

[@DrDolan2000]

That's beautiful

[@yespls4184]

What a good kid. What a good Dad.

[@siggilinde5623]

Seems like you have done a good job raising him :)

[@snowysnowyriver]

The reason why the character Aragorn works so well in these films is because of Viggo Mortensen. Not only is he an actor of INCREDIBLE range, emotion and physicality, in real life he is also an author, musician, composer, linguist, photographer, poet, painter, partner and parent. He is a completely rounded male, so portraying Aragorn authentically is within his reach.

[@Wednesdaywoe1975]

He IS Aragorn. Gives me hope.

[@BeccaDolla]

I get chills thinking about the fact Viggo was a last-minute replacement for the role of Aragorn because I cannot imagine anyone else doing the service to the character that Viggo did. Even when I read the books, I hear Viggo's voice for Aragorn's parts.

[@capreal26]

@@BeccaDolla Wow, thats some compliment for Viggo. No doubt, we love him.

[@JessicaMiller-pc4dj]

@@BeccaDolla Wow, I had no idea that the role was going to be played by someone else 😬. He is so natural in this.

[@davidmeyer6908]

@@JessicaMiller-pc4dj I believe Russell Crowe was the first choice.

[@treyblake1]

"At his own coronation , sings a song with flower petals falling on him " : )

[@alisaurus4224]

The words of the song are from Tolkien’s writing, but Viggo composed the melody for it!

[@rockyp3917]

They used to shower Royalty with flowers, no biggie

[@samf.s.7731]

And I love that scene

[@sophiejones3554]

@@rockyp3917 this is the point friend, it isn't a big deal. People shouldn't make it into a big deal. But they do. Imagine if it were Prince Charles. The British tabloids would have a field day, Candace Owens would tweet some shit about manliness being demonized. This kind of sentiment is everywhere. I've seen boys beaten for putting flowers behind their ears. Yes, it's ridiculous, but it is widely believed in as well.

[@bookwyrm247]

One of my favorite lines in the book is that the hands of a king are the hands of a healer. Viggo embodies this beautifully in his portrayal of Aragorn.

[@vildef579]

"It is not him givinger her wings to fly, or giving her power. It is him saying: I already recognize that you have it." DUDE SHIVERS. So well put!

[@rosehill9537]

I agree

[@rudinagh5759]

made me almost cry😭😭😂💔

[@herbertcrawford9634]

I loved this.

[@211Shinobu]

Hiccup from the How to Train Your Dragon franchise is another good masculine role model. He's an artist, craftsman, tactician, warrior, supportive boyfriend, caregiver, peacemaker and leader who is celebrated for his empathy and smarts. He can kick butt when he has to, but he'd rather find another way to resolve conflicts -- usually by understanding his opponent and either coming to a mutually beneficial solution or outwitting them.

[@2Ten1Ryu]

Great example!

[@tortis6342]

His relationship with astrid is so sweet too. they complement eachother perfectly. Capable on their own but better together.

[@anika1271]

Hiccup's name is defying toxic masculinity itself 😂 ( I mean, who would a man be named 'hiccup'?)

[@aceoflights.]

The whole movie franchise only started because he was "not man enough"/"to soft" to kill a dragon.

[@SirThinks2Much]

Dreamworks movies seem to have good masculine role models. Po and Shrek are great and multifaceted too.

[@TheSghetty]

Who you want to be: Aragorn. Who you actually are: Pippin. EDIT: omg, the attention I got to this comment. To be clear: there is no shame in that at all, that was just a silly joke on the fact that I would love to say the memorable and heroic sentences that Aragorn says, but usually, I am more like: "Anyway you need people of intelligence on this sort of mission. Quest. Thing." I didn't want to hurt you at all, sorry for that. And I agree that Pippin, at least in the movies, is a wonderful character, and I also found him to be the most reliable and human: he makes stupid mistakes, as we all do, and then learns and grows a lot.

[@fluffyone1882]

But all the hobbits were ultimately heroes... Pippin and Merry both got important stuff done.

[@fanpandatastic]

Damn you. That hurt 😭

[@skjaldmr54]

But... there is no shame in that at all?

[@aldenret]

Fuck yeah, pippin is awesome! Man, another moment that always makes me cry is his somber song.

[@yumemilee]

🍎 💨

[@tiduswhiteblade8535]

Aragorn has been my favorite character from any movie/book/series/franchise ever. He’s the epitome of what a man should be. I’m glad I found him at such a young age.

[@anne.1205]

I just realized that almost every scene in "The Lord of the Rings" that makes me cry is Aragorn-related. I'm a lesbian woman, but I really admire him as a man who is real and honest and in touch with his own feelings.

[@skyejacques]

Aragorn is ace. I had such a crush for years

[@TheAsvarduilProject]

As a man, one thing I wish more women would understand about men, is that most men are the good, sensitive type. That's why you don't hear about us.* *: Note that, much like women, all men are different, so I'm being _very_ general when I say "men" or "women". I'm finding in my life, it's better to avoid such generalizations, and try to approach each individual you interact with on an individual basis. It's more work, but it's also less error-prone. Unfortunately for humanity, the folks who tend to cause problems *also* tend to make a rather huge fuss in so doing, thus drawing attention (look at the bad guy!), thus driving the conversation (how do we defeat bad guys?), thus making the conversation lopsided to the point where we can't really have a good conversation (bad guys exist, therefore we have to treat all guys with suspicion, because any of them could be bad and just be biding their time like a very phallic antlion).

[@w.lester255]

@@TheAsvarduilProject I see what you're saying.

[@TheShanicpower]

@Pro Justice She didn’t state anything that implied that she hadn’t seen other great men???

[@propogandalf]

@@TheAsvarduilProject Disagree. It's quite presumptive to call most men "the good, sensitive type". The same it would be to call most women that. There are a lot of shitty people out there and a lot of people out of tune with their inner selves and emotions.

[@persefoniajax]

The world needs us more LOTR men, that's for sure! Non-toxic masculinity is not only healthy but also very attractive.

[@Nerobyrne]

Unironically this. Once I started realizing what toxic masculinity actually is and actively dealing with it, processing where it comes from, how I react to it, etc, I felt much better as a human being. I also became a lot more successful with women. Not just as love interests but as meaningful partners, platonic and otherwise. That's why I love how he called it "limiting masculinity", because that really does describe it way better. It limits you from being a healthier, happier person, and limits others from having that great person in their lives.

[@ASMRyouVEGANyet]

Nontoxic masculinity is just being a decent human being. It has nothing to do with being male.

[@Nerobyrne]

@@ASMRyouVEGANyet ha, clearly you're not familiar with how things work out in patriarchy. That's good, I hope you never learn.

[@heathjackson4498]

@@Nerobyrne that's a pretty toxic masculine thing to say tbh

[@Nerobyrne]

@@heathjackson4498 my point is that masculinity is placed upon you by society if you present as a man, so you can't just be a regular person. It absolutely has to do with being a male, or at least perceived as one. I do wish it wasn't like that, but it is. Maybe I should have just said that, you're right.

[@sarahcsontos5047]

one of my other favorite moments is when Arwen is first introduced after Frodo is stabbed on Weathertop: Arwen lays out the fact that she is a faster rider than Aragorn, so she should be the one to take Frodo to Rivendell. Aragorn doesn't put up a fight, or try to argue against her (except for a brief moment, but it's clear his motivation is to protect Arwen, not because he wants to be dominant). He immediately recognizes that she is right and lets her take Frodo.

[@joshuaridgway4]

Yeah, he knows that if Frodo is gone the wraiths will stop bothering the people left behind and though he knows she’s right and the better rider, he would still rather bear the danger himself than see her at risk. True sacrificial love, and ultimately respect.

[@bloodshedcrimsonclover]

_Glorfindel has left the chat_

[@duhg599]

Not: "Arwen, be careful." Instead: "Arwen, ride hard."

[@Kaspleen]

@Nymphacaeda Thank you! A book reader!

[@kapitanbeuteltier5889]

@@bloodshedcrimsonclover indeed. But personally I like the movie version better.

[@eastvandb]

I appreciate this take. One minor thing: in the books, Aragorn never has any doubt that he is the rightful king, but your take on him not wanting Kingship for power but for responsibility still holds. And in the books, his abilities as a healer are also brought up a lot.

[@1s1lee]

To add to the scene: I also love the reaction of Legolas and Gimli. First of all they do not show anykind of disgust about Aragorns behavior. But second it also shows how Gimli silently mours with Aragorn and keeps his distance to give Aragorn that intimacy while Legolas is completely frightened/terrified/shocked. Even though they already lost Gandalf at this point.

[@JokeCubed]

I'm not super familiar with LOTR lore, but I'm given to understand that Elves are immortal, so that could well be Legolas' first time seeing someone die, or at least, someone he cares about. Gimli is perfect, with just that look on his face, and those silent tears.

[@Julia-lk8jn]

@@JokeCubed Same thought here. Legolas expression is slightly similar to a child who's seen something they don't quite understand yet, but they already figured out that it's bad. And I love that short, dialogue-free shot of him - you either notice that "am I seeing what I think I'm seeing?" look or you don't.

[@darknesswave100]

​@@Julia-lk8jn it's definitely something I didn't see the first time through. 2nd time I was like is Legolas seeing somebody die for the first time? For an elf that's immortal that had to have been a huge shock to the system. It reminds me of a scene in Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood where *spoilers below for the series they're at Hughes' funeral and his daughter is like why are they burying him? What's gonna happen when he wakes up and he's down there by himself? That childlike innocence of not understanding what death is just shook me when I first saw it. Cause as adults we know what death is but if you've never seen it it's almost inconceivable

[@crimsonwizahd2358]

@@darknesswave100 It's a terrible day for rain....

[@mariannepapapetrou1599]

I think this perfectly ties in with the argument Legolas had with Aragorn before the battle of Helm's Deep in Two Towers. I got the feeling that because he is an immortal being he is saddened by the fact the Men, who don't have much life anyway, are going straight to their death. I also think he was emotional because of Aragorn. Aragorn had just gotten back after they had thought him dead and Legolas is probably not ready to lose his friend again in a battle that already seems doomed to end in tragedy and death

[@roftherealm3418]

Okay I'm gonna go super geek for a second here... I feel like Eowyn is the same kind of standard for women that Aragorn is for men. She is feminine in some ways: we see her frequently comforting and nurturing the vulnerable in Rohan, she has an almost schoolgirl level crush on Aragorn, she falls deeply in love with Faramir, and she openly expresses her emotions. She is also brave enough to stare down the king of the Nazgul on his hideous beast, is protective of those she cares about, is a leader of Rohan, and she speaks with confidence and authority. She doesn't take crap from anybody. And the line, "I am no man." SO GOOD. Not only is this a great play on Macbeth's "no man of woman born", but it's also a loud and clear message that you don't have to be masculine to do heroic deeds. The very fact that Eowyn is a woman is what makes it possible for her to kill the Witch King. Her entire character, to me, shows that you don't have to abandon your femininity in order to be strong, to be a leader, to be a hero. Throughout the films, Aragorn sings, cries, waxes poetic, and does a whole lot of decapitating orcs. Eowyn does all of the same things. They're both such excellent examples of fully rounded and deep characters, which I honestly think is Tolkien's greatest strength.

[@Confusion7182]

underrated comment; "Her entire character, to me, shows that you don't have to abandon your femininity in order to be strong, to be a leader, to be a hero." is so apt.

[@roftherealm3418]

@@daenerystargaryen Yeah I kinda don't want to touch RoP with a ten foot pole

[@alphacanuck939]

@@daenerystargaryen Whats RoP?

[@hilken]

@@alphacanuck939 Rings of Power

[@josephwilliams1251]

@@daenerystargaryen let’s be real, even Peter Jackson couldn’t follow up LotR. RoP was not starting with the best chances

[@khadrelt]

I'm a man, and I cry every time Aragon says, "You bow to no one." Every time. Even while I was watching this video the ol' tear ducts started up. Such a powerful scene.

[@n0tale438]

I'm a man, tearing up reading the words in the comments. Tearducts well warmed up from the video, I might add.

[@ddilly9825]

I'd love to see a review of Eowyn. So many people relate to her character. There's a lot there both in her trauma and grief and in defying the role that is expected of her as a woman.

[@rowanmiller8895]

“You can decapitate orcs AND write poetry” Maglor from the shore: that’s my grandson.

[@johncotto48]

Well Julius Ceaser was considered a great poet of his time.

[@voldmerot]

Maglor had a grandson? Tell me more.

[@underthemilkyway955]

I read this in Jake Peralta's voice

[@randomcows007]

@@voldmerot Maglor is Elrond's adopted parent, so it's more like 'grandson-in-law'

[@voldmerot]

@@randomcows007 ahh...yes I was aware of Elrond and Elros falling captive to the sons of Fëanor and subsequently being released by Maglor. I guess I was thinking there was a blood relation between Maglor and Aragorn somehow, based on the OP's wording in his/her comment.

[@notorious.scoundrel]

Boromir: "I would have followed you, my brother. My captain. My king" Me: *crying* I remember being a boy and being ashamed of crying or feeling anything other than anger. It was exhausting and just plain stupid, thankfully I found therapy and I can proudly say I feel, I love and I am more of a man I have ever been. Aragorn is my example, I wish to become more like him everyday

[@oanaalexia]

Thank you so much for sharing, you are very beautiful.

[@liawaters5958]

I'm so glad you were able to break out of that mindset! Congratulations, friend, I hope more people can do the same and be their true selves instead of trying to fit into a mold. Best wishes to you, mate!!

[@bridgetsilver7332]

You, good sir, are an awesome person. I salute you for your bravery and strength of character!

[@abcxyz-st1zh]

You are truly a wonderful man... Well done on not falling into the trap that so many stumble into and being comfortable with who you are. A man is always more attractive when he knows and shows that he is human and doesn't let ridiculous limits hold him back! Hope you're staying safe and well!! Wishing you lots of support!!!

[@russelldeboersap4701]

Aragorn is just a great man. Look to Jesus, who Aragorn is modelled after

[@theradioactiveplayer3461]

A good man is like a good sword - a sword that is too hard is brittle, and breaks under stress; a sword that is too soft is malleable, and will not keep its shape when opposed, but a sword that is hard enough to fight, yet soft enough to flex, not deform, is a good sword.

[@SkagulTV]

That's actually an excellent resemble, holy hell!

[@aeronsausse915]

Spot on

[@GeorgeThoughts]

I think there was a quote like this in one of the Eragon series of novels? I could be very very wrong as it's the vaguest of memories but yeah I've heard a quote before about how being too strong and rigid causes a sword to shatter but flexible steel will bend instead of breaking

[@GeorgeThoughts]

OH it wasn't Eragon it was one of The Moontide Quartet novels by David Hair! Yes that's it.

[@knightlywill4671]

@@GeorgeThoughts is it a good read I might give them a go

[@jacksonfl]

I'm age 74. My late father taught my brothers and me what it means to be a real man: Strong, yet kind. He modeled it. We have strived to follow it. We were so lucky.

[@_monolithic_]

Aragorn: Exists Me: "Why are my eyes so sweaty?"

[@DasSpaceAce]

I know we're focusing on Aragorn & with good reason, but Boromir's final scene, the face Legolas has when he catches up has always broken my heart. It's that almost childlike expression that's kind of "oh no...what happened? Can we help at all?" It just always makes me so sad because it's a reminder that the elves are so very different from the other races & that they don't really quite know how to deal with death, it always surprises them it seems.

[@farhanhyder7304]

Yes. Because they are immortal

[@randallsimmons4677]

Are you both kidding me rn? The elves have seen far more death than you're giving credit for. And im not trying to be a jerk here, just trying to set a couple of points straight. There's a KZbin channel called Men Of The West and the gent who runs it posts many and more lore videos for folks who want a deeper dive into the LOTR lore, its well worth the look. I recommend you both to check him out. But yes, Sean Bean does die very convincingly.

[@Josku2411]

@@randallsimmons4677 True but Orlando Bloom himself said with Legolas he wanted to convey this unfamiliarity with death with his expressions after Gandalf fell with the Balrog so like...Legolas in particular is probably a bit less familiar with death(I think this was said in some sort of commentary audio of the making of that scene)

[@athelas8191]

@@randallsimmons4677 Legolas is VERY young for an elf, he hasn't seen the first age wars and is probably very unfamiliar with death.

[@randallsimmons4677]

@@athelas8191 true but the original comment i was replying to said "elves were unfamiliar with death" and didnt specifically reference Legolas as himself being unfamiliar but the race itself.

[@steveappleton4183]

First time Ive heard the term limiting masculinity used as a replacement for toxic masculinity. Its definitely a better term, Ive always felt like adding the word toxic as an adjective is a short route to shutting down any kind of dialogue and this still definitely gets the idea across.

[@TheHanyuuuuu]

Idunno...but is it precise enough? Yes, I get that some aspects of toxic masculinity are limiting, but some may be liberating. Like how is it limiting to think that you have a divine right to beat your wife? It's the other way around, you are not limiting yourself.

[@peggedyourdad9560]

@@TheHanyuuuuu I've seen some other people online starting to call it "Toxicity with masculine characteristics" because that's really what it is, this term shifts more focus onto the toxic part which is what causes harm. I personally think it should be called "Masculine toxicity" because I feel like that gives a better idea of what it is without being too much of a mouthful.

[@minhduong7248]

@@TheHanyuuuuu limiting would be better. The word masculinity has been for so long associated with the word toxic that the better side of it has been overshadowed and now raise a negative feeling toward it. So too has the word stoic with being emotionless and restricting emotion rather than control them.

[@e.458]

Limiting is only looking in, from men's perspective. It's called toxic, because it's very harmful, not just to the men themselves, but also to people around them, esp. their partners and children. They become the victims of violence created by toxic masculinity.

[@ElanaVital83]

Absolutely. I know so-called feminists who used the term to be abusive towards any kind of masculine trait.

[@briannatate4611]

I think in this scene and in the books Tolkien perfectly demonstrates what it is to be someone’s brother in arms, and what it is to mourn that person because he was actively in the trenches in France in WW1. He first hand experiences the atrocities of war, and saw people he bonded with through trauma fight and die. Losing those people, who are the only people who can understand what you yourself went through on the field of battle, is a different level of grief and not only brings home the sadness of death, but also further isolates you because there are less people who understand the things you did and what you saw, not to mention the trauma of coming home from war a different person. So when Aragorn, and most likely J.R. Tolkien himself, lost someone who he fought alongside honorably and forged that bond with, he wasn’t just grieving the loss of a friend, but he was also grieving for himself. And Tolkien writes it so well because he himself experienced that in WW1.

[@strngenchantedgirl]

The reason why Eowyn falls in love with Aragorn initially is because he is the first man to show her respect and kindness after years and years of gaslighting from wormtounge. He helps her find herself again. And she almost dies because she still has that poison of self doubt inside her and Faramir helps her finally get over that.

[@jakubgrzybek6181]

No, her falling in love with him is just her desire to be a queen. It's even more apparent when she meets Faramir and he sees that she still loves Aragorn and desires glory, only after ring was destroyed she decided to live in Ithilien with Faramir

[@anon-il9qf]

"Gaslighting from a LOTR character" I think we've reached peak femcel. Also "show her respect" I DONT THINK THATS WHAT HE DID or why she liked him... Also Eowyn was a bad character who was rewritten from the books to be one of the earliest examples of a mary sue, change my mind. Not entirely mary sue, but in the mary sue/girlboss orbit.

[@brendanharan4501]

Fuck man Boromir’s death scene gets me tight from, “they took the little ones” that shit is heart breaking.

[@TheGosslings]

Boromir is the man we should all aspire to be.

[@fabricofdreams.]

the little ones >.

[@TheGosslings]

@@camilachavez9320 Yeah, I think a lot of us were so enraptured by these flawless characters that we failed to grasp the very real, human story of Boromir: a man...just a man, who tried to do what was best for his people, succumbed to temptation momentarily, and sacrificed himself gaining redemption. He was arguably the most real character in LotR, which is beautifully iconic but I love Boromir because his struggle is so relatable. And his death is so tragic.

[@dikkie1000]

Boromir is a complicated and flawed man that was deceived by the ring (and he was ordered to take it as a weapon by his father). He made mistakes, realized it and tried to correct what went wrong. He took on responsebility and put in his best effort to protect the hobbits. That he was killed by the orks is no sign of weakness. And in the spirit of Terry pratchett that fits here: "Do what we can." "What if that isn't enough?" "Then we did what we could."

[@ame8710]

Boromir cares a lot for the hobbits. He trained them with swords, wrestled with them and have fun. Every time they were running away from danger, Boromir will be carrying one of them.

[@ConversateL]

TLDR: he protec he attac but most importantly... he respec

[@mrinalini9112]

And he's a snacc

[@Sgt-Wolf]

@@mrinalini9112 And you had to go ruin the moment.

[@davidalves1745]

Just trying to understand, you prefer a man protecting you but not respect you or a man that respect you but do not protect you?

[@RudyBleeker]

@@davidalves1745 what I'm trying to understand from your comment is: what is the reason these options are being presented as mutually exclusive?

[@davidalves1745]

@@RudyBleeker I'm putting up a scenario when you would have to choose, for understandment sake, I'm not saying that they are exclusive and cannot happen together, obviously if a man loves and respects he will always protect and protection itself presumes some kind respect. Was asking only because of the way she puts it, like there are levels of importance, like if respecting was more important than protection. If that's a silly question just ignore it. I don't really believe in toxic masculinity so I'm trying to understand the concept

[@Sovereign-kh4ng]

I think a lot of this is Viggo's performance which is stellar, Aragorn is a role model to men everywhere. He is a protector, he is wise and he is willing to sacrifice himself to buy Frodo time to complete the quest. There is something so beautiful about that.

[@ANDRE1mang]

Absolutely agree. I love the whole aspect of him as that "protector". He was there for Frodo countless times as well as the other hobbits.