EISENHORN: XENOS - Still the best intro to Warhammer 40,000? Book Club with Mira!

[@roswaldwalton1147]

My introduction to the 40k universe was through the Eisenhorn trilogy as well. The Abnettiverse has created so much of the lore for 40k from outside the remit of the Space Marines, he created a whole new aspect of the Imperium that was there but not talked about almost. Considering how much he himself has been through, writing so prolifically and dealing with serious health problems, he will always be a hero of mine.

[@ArbitorIan]

Yeah, agreed. There's a whole section of this incut out which is just me listing all the amazing terms he invented and added to the world, but it wasn't really about the book!

[@ThomasSmithTechArtist]

great video. get her on again, love hearing people talk about the 40k lore.

[@DearDoggins]

God, this episode opens with "2001 is 20 years ago". I'm watching this in early 2024 feeling my own age punch. Love to see the progress Ian and Mira have made in the warhammer bookclub world, terrified that this video is only just south of 3 years old and is singlehandedly responsible for my 74 book collection.

[@davidpacker7602]

I'm only 5mins in but I can tell I'm gonna watch all of your videos with the two of u discussing 40k books. I love the format and the books so its ideal.

[@petsdinner]

For GCSE English we did Gothic novels and I managed to convince my teacher to let me do an Eisenhorn book. 15 year old me did a lot of cringe stuff but that's something I'm proud of haha

[@ArbitorIan]

I think Warhammer Gothic is an untapped genre Black Library should get into. I want the story of Interrogator Eyre infiltrating the spiretop home of Imperial Commander Rochester to investigate reports of a daemon-haunted wing.

[@euansmith3699]

@@ArbitorIan Pride & Prejudice & Heresy?

[@livingthepct1224]

​@@euansmith3699lol'd :p

[@Farglator]

Well now that opening line about how long ago 2001 was has made me feel old too! So thanks for that :-p

[@PaintsAreOp]

After watching this video, I decided to give this book to my fiancee, who reads about 300 books a year, for 4th dating anniversary. She liked it, so thanks!

[@haircutdeluxe]

You both look like you were cool in 2001, what happened? I kid, I was cool in 2001 too. I’m really enjoying this channel. This type of “adjacent fandom reaction” can be really informative in something as big as 40k. There are a lot of not-noobs-anymore that are secretly listening for where to turn their attention next, and seeing someone fresh enjoy something and (gasp) immediately learn why, that makes people want to return to the channel later.

[@Delfinovskij]

If I recall correctly, Xenos was my first, or one of the first books I've read too, only a few years back. And Eisenhorn with Gaunt's Ghosts got me into 40k and reading in general. Abnett is just great author.

[@miramanga]

He truly is! :)

[@Billzor991]

Love your videos! Eisenhorn was what got me fully into 40k last year, and I'm so happy I got to listen to the audiobook of it, it's incredible!

[@ArbitorIan]

Ooh I've never tried the audiobooks. After 8 novels I don't want to lose the accents they all have in my HEAD!!

[@Billzor991]

@@ArbitorIan I've been listening to a ton of 40k Audiobooks at work, and some are AMAZING, like Eisenhorn. And then some are very much... not on the mark with the voices, haha.

[@Misadventures_85]

Toby Longworth is a freakin' legend

[@RD22TT]

First this is such an underrated channel. Second, I've known about WH40k since 99 but never really got into it. I knew enough about the lore to make myself look dumb in front of people that knew the lore very well. Less than a month ago I picked up Xenos and it was the first WH40K book I've ever read and I enjoyed greatly. So much so that I'm looking for channels like this and looking for more books to read about the 40K universe.

[@gabrielwalton4097]

Eisenhorn was the first book I read once I'd gotten into 40k again. So brilliant, they are perfect!

[@poppyappletree1400]

13:55 I love how excited Ian gets when he realises Dan Abnett did Doctor Who stuff

[@MiecioMiszcz1]

Dude, I'm so glad I found your channel. Flew right through your catalogue, love the content. You've got a new subscriber and I'm here to stay

[@Mugdorna]

I only found it about a week ago. Been racing through all the lore videos with joy

[@CthulhuOnCam]

The books do improve on there representation pretty quickly after the first one. Book two has a badass female pilot who's a major stand out and going forwards Eisenhorns retinue always has several well trained useful female members. Gaunts Ghost also changes in book 3 to include WAY more female characters (IE more than none) I wonder if it's something Dan noticed about his own writing early on and tried to fix?

[@DearDoggins]

Its so fun coming back to these early book club videos. I've just reread the inquisitor series and have been saving a rewatch of these until I wrapped up. Its wild how quickly after this aired that Mira became best buds with Dan Abnett. I'd love to see them talk about the series over on MiraManga.

[@joperhop]

my first warhammer book was The First Heretic, i loved it! Not read xenos and the other 5 books (going with first 2 sets) but I have them and plan on pushing my way through once I finish Mortis.

[@oliverkrouwel8522]

Really enjoying this you tube channel. Thanks for the content.

[@MasssiveJuice]

Fantastic discussion! Can't wait for more 😊

[@jacobturnerart]

I rediscovered 40k via Ravenor after being out of the lore for about 8 years. So glad I read this.

[@AedorDM]

Big big big up for this. Please have mira back on!

[@Inquisdrknss]

I think my first book was Deathworld, but I didn't really get into the novels until after I left the hobby. But Eisenhorn had me trying to find the Inquisitor models and start back up.

[@R2-DPOO]

Great chat, really interesting as a person who has only read one book from the black library (Legion) also by Dan Abnett. I do find the world a bit inpenitrable beyond the more sweeping lore.

[@ArbitorIan]

Legion is a good one to start with, though. Relatively standalone, and way better than everything else written about the Alpha Legion!

[@Hey_McG]

Okay so now I want an Autobot Space Marine chapter lead by Optimus Primark...

[@euansmith3699]

Primaris in disguise.

[@eisenhorn5494]

This was my entry down the rabbit hole.

[@gamerblisters]

The audiobooks for this series are well done

[@meant2live35]

I just finished listening to the audiobook not 30 minutes ago. Toby Longworth does an incredible job

[@refoliation]

It’s funny that the book can never just say “he shot him with his gun” but always has to mention exactly what kind of specific type of weapon each character has even though it barely ever makes a material difference.

[@jezebel8551]

First 40k book I read was the Purging of Kadillus. Till this day it is my favorite book. Cockney Space Orks - best idea ever!

[@pistolhero1973]

I started to read MALLEUS a few years ago, when I found it at my bookshop. I litteraly ate it in less than two weeks, and it was very good. Then, I started to search for book 1 and 3. Too bad, I found HERETICUS first, but I loved it as well as MALLEUS. And finally, i was able to put my hands on XENOS. And I must say, XENOS is the best of the three, yet, unlike many 40k series that I have read, Eisenhorn's series is good and immersive, and epic and dark, and every book is wonderful, and as good as the last and the next. ^^

[@astrozombiac3535]

Xenos was my first 40k book...well audiobook and it has started a real love affair with the literature. I think Caiphus Cain was my second. Both are some of my favorite characters in the 40k universe.

[@67lionsoflisbon37]

I've only found the omnibus of Eisenhorn and the Ravenor Omnibus. The opening of xenos is as epic as anything any sci fi writer from Vance, to Herbert, to Bradbury etc. Loved every line of it.

[@youdontneedtoseehisidentif4939]

I'm really liking the varied nature of your videos :) Out of curiousity (having never been involved in a book club or anything even remotely similar), how long do you guys and gals have to read each book..?

[@ArbitorIan]

Thanks! It's usually a month. I think that's standard with a lot of book clubs.

[@johnnybigbones4955]

My first introduction to Abnett I'm pretty sure was in 2000AD with Sinister Dexter and a bunch of other stuff. I copped his name because I thought his stuff was pretty good. Then I read his High Elf story in Inferno! and I realised it was the same guy (I was well impressed with that story, it stood out to me as the best thing in the issue). So when I saw he'd written a whole novel set in the 40K universe with First and Only I was all over it. I read and re-read that a whole bunch of times, and I still think First and Only holds up really well as an intro to 40K as well. I only got into the inquisitor stuff MUCH later, and it absolutely blew me away. The only real criticism I would have of that stuff is some of the descriptions of female characters are a bit embarrassing these days. It's not that you can't have sexy characters, it's just that it doesn't need to be mentioned every single time they're "on screen", y'know? But Eisenhorn and Ravenor are great series. Xenos in particular is just brilliant and gets across the weird, grimy 40K universe really well.

[@ArbitorIan]

Yeah, I said the same in another comment but I feel like that's even more of an issue in Ravenor, where Kys and Swole rarely get an appearance without a description of their looks.

[@bigfrankfraser1391]

dan abnett is consistently great, even his worst written books are still enjoyable reads

[@pendantblade6361]

I think my first book was Thousand Sons, and that was me not knowing what HH was and who were all these characters and yeah I bounced off it lol. I only got to it years later when I read HH in the recommended order. I sure hope Mira enjoys the next book! It does show its age and I kinda hope the uh, r-word slurs from Eisenhorn, doesn't dissuade her from enjoying it.

[@Kozlik00]

I started with Horus Rising book. I must say that if I didnt play a Dawn of War game, it would be a quite hard for me to imagine the first battlefield part. However, I didnt know almost anything about the lore and when it came to it I wasn't even lost. If I dont count the introduction during a fighning part, it really well introducted me into the space marine chapters and quite a world around

[@Malak1000]

Is that Bookclub with Dan available anywhere?

[@henrycoles-abell2064]

Just giving this a bump as I would also like to watch that, if anyone has a link?

[@TurboWulfe]

Great vid 😎🤘

[@BraveSpy]

Can i find somewhere the video of that bookclub with Dan Abnett as a guest?

[@ArbitorIan]

Unfortunately no, one of the conditions of doing it was that it was club-only rather than a publicly posted thing! Hence why I only have a sneaky 1sec of it in here!

[@hanng1242]

For my money, the Caiaphas Cain novels, especially the first omnibus, are the best introduction to 40k.

[@uignireddngfiurdsgfiurdse]

Eisenhorn is probably the peak of 40k writing. The worldbuilding and prose are stellar. What I don't agree with however is that Xenos is the best introduction. In my opinion, framing matters almost as much as the exposition. And Lord of the Night does this great. It paints a bleak reality of a 40k Hive City from the eyes of a heartless Night Lord who just woke up from a 10.000 year long nap. Things aren't explicitly explained. But they click into place organically. Xenos is good too, just that Lord of the Night does this specific aspect of writing better.

[@commanderdanielcousland9981]

My introduction to Warhammer 40k was TTS emperor. Long live the manemperor of mankind

[@tannerboth8401]

I feel like not enough emphasis is put on how extreme the warhammer 40k setting is in common discussion, nor the odds the human race is up against(not least of which being human nature itself)... With full scope of the setting, and comprehension of the stakes mankind has to contend with, I feel like the Imperium was necessary. Unfavourable in many ways in regards to OUR modern real-world sensibilities, but without it, mankind would have blinked out like a smothered candle. I dont think the phrase "Sometimes you gotta kill a hundred if you want to save thousands" is any less true in our world than it is in the 40k universe. Similar choices are made here in the real world by politicians, military leaders, and combat strategists everyday. If anything, its the same thing occurring in 40k, just on a VASTLY larger scale, in FAR more extreme, cataclysmic circumstances.

[@Quaaludio]

[@earshoes3282]

I read the Ian Watson books, "Space Marine" and the Inquisitor series. If Dan can match those, I'll give him a try. I also have the Inquisitor 54mm rules and an Eisenhorn figure (amongst others).

[@dekai7992]

Bequin in Xenos roughly follows the traditional Noir female character trope. I'm not saying I like that, I don't, but it's in line with the genre. I'm very glad that Bequin ultimately emancipated from that with her own series (haven't read it yet, but I can't wait to start).

[@ArbitorIan]

Yeah, totally. I think it's weird because it's probably not a trope that would be included in a modern novel, and I still think of it as a modern novel despite being 20 years old, so it surprised me how old-fashioned it felt upon re-reading. Shows you how quickly things change I suppose!

[@sophiaperennis2360]

@@ArbitorIan They change quickly, but usually for the worse.

[@holla6714]

My favorite quote from eisenhorn is "i'm excusing a lot beacuse i reconize your trauma and the loss you have suffered. But my patience isn't limitless... unlike my authority."

[@U2QuoZepplin]

My appologies for spelling Mira's name wrong 🙄😖😖😖🤐

[@jackdaw1328]

I'm watching these book club vid out of sequence, and I'm enjoying them. At what point though did Ian ( given his area of expertise) advise Mira about background lighting. I feel Mira's choice could have sent out the wrong signals (especially to someone of my vintage)😆😆

[@edwardhann]

Great video and discussion! Good timing I’ve just finished Eisenhorn, really enjoyed most of the book(s). Interesting you mention cringe moments, there’s a weird bit of narration in book 2 where he describes Bequin as ‘really sexy’, just a weird dated way to describe who is mostly a strong female character. Started the Bequin books and feel that learns from a lot of the failed attempts to represent her in the Eisenhorn books. Also worth looking at Bloodlines the Warhammer crime book, enjoyed that a lot, although the ending is GCSE level bad. Anyway love the channel and getting a comment in before you gain an inevitable billion followers! 🥰

[@ArbitorIan]

Yeah, I think that sort of thing is even more prominent in the Ravenor books, where everytime Kys or Swole are mentioned it has to state how hot they are. It happens a bit in Gaunts Ghosts, but I feel its slightly more justified there - its an all-male regiment who suddenly become a mixed regiment and that's even used as a plot point in some of the books. But yeah, definitely one of the areas where it shows its age.

[@RoboticPope]

@@ArbitorIan "Every time" is a bit of an exaggeration. I just finished the Ravenor trilogy and don't remember anything that wasn't relevant to what was happening in the story at each time, and almost all of the mentions about Kara's attractiveness came from Zael, an uneducated teenage boy with the hormones going. Also the second book introduced Maud and she wasn't sexualized at all (I don't think Media betancore ever was in the Eisenhorn books either). There was certainly nothing that could be considered inappropriate today. Really the series is full of awesome strong, diverse female characters.

[@Quaaludio]

@@RoboticPope shhhhhhhh! You're breaking head cannon. The spice must flow...

[@penvzila]

There's a lot more female characters later in the eisenhorn series and one of the kind of cool things is there's almost always a good narrative reason for that character to be a woman, it never feels forced in Abnett.

[@ianleveritt]

Not my introduction to the series but it is the best 40k book series they have done.

[@bigjuando]

Y'all are such nerds, I love it!

[@bastodon]

Great

[@hyaground]

Loving all your content so far and can’t wait to see more - one question though: what is the Hate Club?! you and Russ show your support for it but no-one explains what it is!….

[@miramanga]

It's the Hackney Area Tabletop Enthusiasts gaming club that gathers in East London on Weds and Sundays!

[@hyaground]

@@miramanga thanks Mira! 😄👍

[@RedemptiveChief]

I think Meera would love The infitnite and the divine as a way of getting to know the more alien side of warhammer 40k

[@necrospoon]

Do you have a link to the book club meeting with Dan abnet?

[@envysloth2486]

After eisenhorn what do I read next?

[@ArbitorIan]

In the same series, the next book trilogy would be the Ravenor series. Or, if you want a change of theme, but the same author, I'd recommend Gaunts Ghosts (start with book 3: Necropolis) or maybe Brothers of the Snake?

[@Armageddon2077]

Please read the first three or five Horus Heresy books with your book club

[@KevinArdala01]

Are there any good introductory Eldar books?

[@ArbitorIan]

The Path of the Eldar series is actually a really good look at them, and introduces you to most of the factions and viewpoints one at a time.

[@KevinArdala01]

@Arbitor Ian Thanks, I'll take a look at them then! 👍

[@timmanning5206]

I wanted to know who the goodies and baddies are. Oh my sweet summer child, there are none of them

[@zackiz]

Im reading this book right now, can I watch this video or should I wait until im done. I bought all 4 books and im reading them in order.

[@ArbitorIan]

I'd wait til you're done, we talk about the plot a lot. We do talk a little about where some of the characters go, nothing major but if you want to avoid aby shred of info then maybe finish the trilogy??

[@zackiz]

@@ArbitorIan Cheers for quick answer!

[@walt_man]

Nothing wrong with Damsels, they're Ladies that have responsibility. Of course Damsels in distress gets old, real old. Like some of those old B SciFi that had every female character in trouble... then bam.. A *Ripley* appears! Everyone then follows.

[@redspy6018]

Ian: “… the Eisenhorn trilogy, which details the fall of the inquisitor Eisenhorn …” Me, who just finished Xenos a few minutes before watching this: Wait, what?

[@Olokunful]

The Left Hand of Darkness. Ah yes. I read that in HS.

[@Quaaludio]

Hahahaha....this person gets it.

[@wescha]

I always found the Eisenhorn and Ravenor books a bit meh. Premise is great and while I cant judge on the quality of the writing itself (English Not first language) there always Was something a bit hammy about Bad guy xy finding a language to DESTROY TGE WHOLE UNIVERSE!!?! I Like gaunts ghosts way more, there abnett suceeds in creating a sense of dread and despair in being a Single Human in the scale of the whole galaxy.

[@NeverQuiteAlex]

Is it possible for mere mortals to join this book group? *puppy eyes*

[@youdontneedtoseehisidentif4939]

☝🏻 *This* ☺️ (Nah, I figure I'd be too shy to ever participate in a book club; but hearing about other people's experiences is definitely interesting and enjoyable :)

[@jakubkohut9045]

The Bequin in her novel series is not the one from the Eisenhorn trilogy

[@J-Dawg81]

what really??

[@jakubkohut9045]

@@J-Dawg81 yes, I don't want to go to spoiler territory, but it is a different Bequin 🙂.

[@HereticalKitsune]

Bad 40k books? Inquisition Wars. Granted, it's very old, but still very terrible.

[@dominickirwan7436]

I really like Xenos but I was always a bit put off by the Idyllic world that a good chunk of the action takes place on. It veers slightly too close to making the imperium seem like a functional society, I think Abnett tends to do this but I guess it's hard to write interesting novels set in 40k and having it still be 110% grim all the time.

[@ArbitorIan]

See, I quite LIKE that Gudrun is a pretty normal, functioning society, even if it is basically Downton Abbey World. I guess we're used to reading 40k where everything has gone wrong. Like how the warp has to actually be a pretty safe way to travel 99% of the time, otherwise the Imperium wouldn't function, but we only read about the 1% a Daemon eats everyone's brain.

[@miramanga]

@@ArbitorIan Downtown Abbey World. LOL

[@ArbitorIan]

@miramanga Yeah, totally! Not sure if it's in Xenos but he gets a residence in a fancy manor with house servants and everyone seems to be dressed in frock coats and evening dress all the time. There's even a short story with a travelling carnival and the space orient express. It's totally 1890-1920 world.

[@dominickirwan7436]

@@ArbitorIan Yeah, I just always worry reading any 40k where it normalizes the Imperium, it's that hard thing where it can't all be weird John Blanche depictions but you don't want that situation where people see the Imperials as actually good guys.

[@ineptwizzard]

@@dominickirwan7436 Just because there are planets like Gudrun where things are pretty great, or even if there were some where it's amazing, that does not justify or paint the Imperium in a good light. Just because they're not grinding plebs up for road surfacing on every single world doesn't mean that they're any good.

[@thatlonewolfguy2878]

I know this is being a grammar na*i but I've just never heard "malleus" pronounced as ma-lay-us, everyone seems to accept its pronounced as mal-ee-us lmao just took me by surprise

[@U2QuoZepplin]

Pardon my blithering ignorance but why is Miara recording her contribution to this in a photgraphic Dark Room. I actually like how vague Miara is with the whole Warhammer 40'000 thing. I'm kind of jealous of her starting out in the whole 40'K lore thing. McLovin the Lovecraft hint. And someone needs to tell Miara that in Warhammer 40'K and its Fantasy counterpart is ; there's no good guys in Warhammer. They all see themselves as the good guys.

[@equals-kl9hm]

Mira, being able to look back makes is blessed and wise. Not old. Besides you are absolutely beautiful. Your such a treat in this world that tends to be male oriented. Cheers to you.

[@thesmilyguyguy9799]

1k is (:

[@patrickking3124]

The very silly part of xenos was when eisenhorn gets his face muscles fucked and said he'd never be able to smile again. So very silly.

[@stedyedy23]

It's dobby hahaha

[@jamestoney6108]

Adb is the best author

[@WafflesYo]

prolly m least favoruite book, and i know how alone i am in that xD

[@aniyn]

I liked Xenos, but found Malleus to be..... quite boring. I kept waiting for some twist or something unexpected to happen, but nothing ever manifests. A bad thing happens, the good guy detectives a bit, finds the bad guy's identity, and then kills him. Yawn.

[@l4zrh4wk]

The perfect woman doesn’t exi...

[@barrylucas8679]

BOLTER PORN!

[@mileschristi8161]

If you are having a conversation about how offensive warhammer 40K .....It's not for you.

[@HistoritorJimaldus]

They weren’t - of course in reality it’s certain other types that won’t be missed 😛

[@tommytwaddle8601]

Jeez. Came here for a genuine review/recommendation but it was just “Warhammer is so problematic! 😭Muh modern audiences! The Imperium = fascism! 😭” 🤦‍♂️

[@HistoritorJimaldus]

Someone didn’t really watch the video or listen to the words said apparently

[@niklashall5969]

She is perfect wife material omg

[@Quaaludio]

She hates people like you, Bro. Sorry to be mean, but it's better to hear it now rather than later.

[@fozzilla123]

You are wrong. The Imperium isn't fascist by any measure. Facist is not a synonym for authoritarian either. It is an autocratic theocracy, at best, but really there is no one way to describe the politics of the Imperium, because it encompasses all forms of politics. It is closer to communism with the sheer bodycount and lack of options, if you wanted to draw a closer comparison. But that isnt correct either. Communism is worse than the Imperium.

[@HistoritorJimaldus]

It encompasses all forms of politics but isn’t fascist by any measure 🤦‍♀️ also someone doesn’t understand what communism means

[@MightyGachiman]

Wow, butting real life politics into the gaming space... No more damsels call for change against nonexistent problems in warhammer, yet the members do not read nor play fucking warhammer. Just play.

[@ineptwizzard]

God you're pathetically insecure.