Arcane's Magic Explained | Mel & Viktor as Parallels (+ Drama...)

[@Nanago-lf1lj]

I love also the parallel when Viktor introduced himself for the first time to the moment Mel kissed Jayce, becaus it is a good visual how the two partnerships work: while Viktor WAITS for jayce to pick up the brace from his hand and accept a partnership, Mel is taking a step forward and kisses him, taking Jayce by surprise. She is full in offense mode. And that kinda summs up why Jayces relationship with Viktor is a partnership of equals, not a mean to earn something and power imbalance

[@forgreatjustice22]

Very good comment.

[@Nanago-lf1lj]

@ oh thank you!😊

[@2CABALLEROS]

listening to this video while driving and learning about all of the parallels between mel and viktor with my internal jayvik truther in the back of my mind was such an experience, and then all of a sudden at the end of the video you actually talked about the pairing at length OMG!!! i didnt expect that at all and i kept thinking "oh i need to comment about X thing--" and then you talk about X thing right after 🤯 lalody the thoroughness of your videos never ceases to amaze me. when i first watched season 2, the second i saw the last scene between jayce and viktor i was immediately reminded of the as we fall music video. the visual of a forehead touch between lovers being as far as they were willing to go for gay intimacy being used in both scenarios cannot be overlooked. but the way you took it even further, highlighting the similarities... im mind blown. i know im getting conspiratorial but part of me believes that fortiche had its own vision for jayce and viktor that someone at riot may not have approved of so maybe they had to code the relationship like this to get the message across. i wont forget that riot intended to cancel arcane but fortiche just went and continued to produce it behind their backs anyways. arcane mirror's riot's history of queer romance. there is an abundance of sapphic content, but when its between two guys, you will have to jump through hoops and decipher hieroglyphics to get anywhere. anyways, amazing video. as a long time league fan whos been burned following this shifting lore many times before, i actually wasnt interested in seeing any league lore related video, but im so glad you made this one. this was perfect. 👌

[@LalodysLore]

I'm so glad you enjoyed this video hahaha it took me a lot of effort to make. Honestly, your conspiracy theory makes a decent amount of sense. From the sounds of things, Fortiche were given the work to do but left largely to their own devices while bringing it to life. There's many quotes from the writers suggesting that the Fortiche animators had a lot of agency when adding their own little details (like Jinx's markings on Silco's stuff) but also that some writers seemingly had no idea the extents to the imagery (like Christian Linke not commenting on the recurring butterfly symbolism in the Necrit interview? yikes...). Iirc at some point Amanda (I think) made a comment about having to ask the animators if they intentionally made Viktor's cane with Talis colours... and something tells me they didn't notice the Talis hammer all over his leg brace, either lol. Even just going to Amanda's twitter (leeloo104) and searching 'Fortiche' etc you can find a lot of examples of assorted things the animation team added on their own like Vi touching Cait's cheek or Vi winking at Jayce in the undercity. I also agree there's higher ups at Riot that are very resistant to specifically gay males unless it can be ignored by the players (like Varus backstory in cinematic/comics, K'sante having a nonplayable male ex-lover, TFGraves not officially a couple, Graves making no in-game mention he's gay, SettPhelios only on certain rare skin interactions, etc). The standards are so clearly very different for female characters, like Neeko who really likes Nidalee, Rell being very bi about everyone in voicelines, CaitVi having the Valentine's skins and Arcane. It's like the gay men have to be hidden to appeal to the game;s target audience even though I can guarantee most of them don't care at all for the character's lore/personality/love life. I just know if Varus was two lesbians the voiceover would probably have them talking to each other like Alune and Aphelios...

[@tesseract7864]

59:08 Not the fandom also drawing parallels between Viktor and Ambessas boy toy by calling him hydrated Viktor. God I sincerely hope that wasn’t intentional.

[@karishadkit27]

Hydrated Viktor lmfao 🤣🤣

[@helpidroppedmydignity6138]

You play league ahhhh the community so needs someone like you

[@LalodysLore]

Unfortunately-

[@suezcontours6653]

@@LalodysLore Mel and Viktor aren't parallels, the fandom just made them compete for Jayce for no reason. To me: Mel, Jayce and Viktor were the Harry Potter golden trio. I see more psychological/ narrative parallels between Mel + Caitlyn in terms of their relationships to their mothers and their status and how they deal with the Council bomb aftermath. Mel and Cait are idealistic in S1 with Mel using brains and cunning and Cait using Braun and strategy as their weapons. They made a great pair, wish we got more scenes with them.

[@LalodysLore]

@ Mel and Cait also have some parallels but that does not erase the parallels between Mel and Viktor. It wasn't fans who made Mel and Viktor competition for Jayce's attention - that was the show.

[@suezcontours6653]

@@LalodysLore No, there are no parallels with Viktor and Mel, they're just foreigners on different class brackets - that's where it ends. Jayce and Viktor are parallels in how they use Hex-Tech to fulfill their vision of Piltover. My initial reading of Arcane was a battle of philosophies - the romance only enhanced the stories, not the central focus. Mel is deliberately paired with Jayce because she needed a local to to be the face of Piltover's future (this runs parallel to USA that refused to vote for a smart decorated black female as their leader, they rather have narcissist/ tyrant male energy).

[@LalodysLore]

@@suezcontours6653 uh... Mel did not need Jayce to lead Piltover she was already doing that before she even knew he existed. Capitalising and controlling Jayce and Hextech makes sure that she remains the wealthiest person in Piltover. Everyone wants Hextech, including Mel. Heimerdinger was the only one truly against it once they could prove it actually worked. As for the parallels, did you even watch the video? If you can see something between Mel and Cait but can't see Mel and Viktor I don't even know what to tell you other than I think you must have some pretty strong biases here for some reason.

[@ViiveV-e2b]

You can't just drop a "Haha what if Ambessa and Mage Victor got freaky and Mel is their daughter" and leave 💀💀💀

[@ViiveV-e2b]

I feel violated

[@LalodysLore]

The 30 min gap between your comments is absolutely sending me 🤣🤣 I'm sorry

[@ViiveV-e2b]

@@LalodysLore Had to take a break and reflect

[@forgreatjustice22]

It's so refreshing to see another woman give such an honest and in-depth reading of Mel and Jayce's complex relationship. After all, without the acknowledgement of Mel's manipulation of Jayce (regardless of whether or not she develops genuine feelings for him), it could hardly be called a complex relationship. God, I love Jayce. He's just so... he's so Jayce-like, you know?

[@LalodysLore]

It's so funny how one of the comments I got a few hours ago was the exact opposite of this one 😂 How is there such a great divide in interpretation of Mel and Jayce? I totally agree that their relationship without the manipulation is so extremely reduced to a point where I don't even know what is actually appealing about it anymore... Not only that, but it severely undermines Mel's skills as a politician. My girl did not train her entire life at this for people to think she wasn't an expert (or, I guess technically she did since manipulation is way less successful when people are aware of it). Sometimes I have to joke to myself that the people who don't see it are the people her charms are working on as she intended... quite naive people (just like Jayce).

[@marshallcalciferbuckley-mi1072]

i wanna also point out the visual similarities in design between mage mel and commune viktor - with mel having more geometric designs and jayce having "organic" designs in the same spots as well as gold accents.

[@plato_IV]

this video is so well-made!! i'd like to add that 51:02 that Christian Linke's statement is less sensible considering jayvik wasn't popular until the beginning of s2. people understood and respected that jayce and viktor were just close friends for years, so jayvik's current popularity existing because people assume men cannot have platonic love is unlikely. their relationship unintentionally had homosexual undertones despite the writers' intent for them to be "brotherly", which is coming from someone who spent almost a decade (same length as jayce & viktor's friendship) with a man i consider my brother and have an intensely close relationship with. i too was convinced jayvik was platonic until the finale. it was entirely possible that the writers could've made a platonic love across space and time widely accepted by audiences as platonic love. in sonic prime, sonic also travels through space and time to rescue his home dimension. he meets varying versions of tails and clearly has a soft spot for all of them. one version, aka nine, becomes heavily attached to him unlike other versions and almost destroys the world. despite this, sonic still cares for nine and the other tails. even though sonic and tails are depicted as two characters extremely bound to each other, most fans agree their relationship is brotherly. meanwhile, most fans debate over jayvik's queerness because their time together was unintentionally gay. CL is talented, but he should remember that this common misinterpretation is because of his writing, and that is okay! it's redudant to dismiss the complexity of jayvik's relationship and how people see love as "people dont want men to be affectionate!!" edit: i wanted to make my comment more coherent. thank you for making this video. it was so helpful with how detailed it was

[@LalodysLore]

I think even people who don't see JayVik as explicitly romantic still have to acknowledge that their relationship transcends the meaning of platonic and it certainly doesn't fall into the category of brotherly. They are soulmates. Without each other they become fundamentally different people and they impact each other in ways that only they can. Besides, it's not like Arcane didn't feature many familial bonds that were intense and intimate yet didn't give romantic vibes. I think it didn't help that Jayce clearly stated that "Now, all I want is my partner back" which elevates Viktor in importance above all other aspects of his life, including his dearly beloved mother, his lover, his friends, etc. It also doesn't help that partner is a common way to refer to a romantic partner both IRL and in League of Legends, especially for LGBT. It wasn't just that Jayce did All That for Viktor and vice versa but that Jayce's entire life was defined by Viktor and his appreciation of Mage Viktor and we saw how passionately he pursued his magic. Jayce's very essence is defined by his inherent multi-dimensional cross-time intense bond with Viktor and Jayce is the only person in the entire multiverse who can reach Viktor. That makes all other potential bonds for these two characters so much less than the bond they have between each other. I truly do believe it is EXCLUSIVELY because they are both male characters that romance was not considered between them by Riot's Arcane writing team. Hopefully in the future this will be remedied just like most other queer romances in LoL.

[@crimsonlilyfairy]

don't quote me on this, cause i don't know exactly how valid it really is, but i remember hearing somewhere that when CL and AY were writing the story for Arcane, they ended up turning Jayce and Viktor into their lowkey-self insert characters. (which, if the way they tell the story is accurate in Bridging the Rift--how Linke was the one to "discover" Fortiche, and start telling all his coworkers, and riot nearly shut him down on the idea of an animated project, until Yee came to bat for him, and the two plus amanda overton finally got the ball rolling--does pretty neatly parallel jayce, viktor, and mel in S1A1) from THAT lense, it does kinda make sense that Linke wouldn't be super eager to 100% confrim JayVik. doesn't make him right, justified, or really make JayVik any less canonical, but...still i can see the logic. not all straight guys are secure enough to lean into being shipped with their best friend, after all.

[@LalodysLore]

I hope this isn't true 😭

[@inigocraft2446]

FINALLY A VIDEO I CAN USE AS THE JAYVIK BIBLE 😭 Also have you heard the way Jayce says “V” as a nickname it’s too cute

[@inigocraft2446]

… I just listened to that CURSED theory 😭

[@LalodysLore]

Jayce be like: This is my partner V. Iktor Enjoy your cursed brainworm!

[@jer9grant]

47:40 yes. I adore Mel, but JayMel are not endgame, even if his affection for her was pivotal in her own character arc. There's not an equity there, in that relationship, even if Mel _didn't_ start out their relationship like she was managing an asset. How she communicates and wants to live life is incompatible with Jayce's. good bros, having a sexual interest added benefits, but their romance was never built for forever-and trying to make it last that long would have only harmed them both.

[@LalodysLore]

Right? I think it's important to have multiple layers to romantic and sexual relationships depicted in media and JayMel falls more into the summer romance category of fleeting but ultimately unable to exist long term in a healthy way. Similar to Cait/Maddie. Riot also likes to depict toxic or otherwise incompatible romances in canon (see: Viego and Isolde) so not all of their love stories will be soulmates like (Rakan and Xayah, Lucian and Senna, etc)

[@snusslybussly5749]

Your style of storytelling is definitely a breath of fresh air when it comes to League lore, would love to see more in the future:)

[@LalodysLore]

Glad you enjoy ❤️ I have noticed a bit of a gap in the lol space for videos like this

[@jer9grant]

33:23 I read that as Mel in her exile era having internalized she isn't a Medarda but struggling against that truth; so when she says Medardas aren't often in a position to give back, she is talking about the _true_ Medardas like her mother, of which she isn't. I also interpret Mel in her exile era as trying to amass money and renown so her mother would accept her-and thus the money and resources she has gained so far aren't things she can give to others, but a hoard to bargain with the Medardas. When Mel takes off the Medarda ring, she is no longer trying to be a Medarda and can now give back fully.

[@LalodysLore]

It is because she is hoarding wealth that she does not give back, not because she isn't in a position that allows her to. She simply values being powerful and wealthy more than she valued doing good in the world. It just so happened that funding hextech allowed her to do both but that did not mean she wasn't capable of giving back before then - it was her choice not to. While she always had unbelievable privilege that entitled her to a life of not caring about anyone except herself and those who are 'worth her time' financially, I don't plan to dismiss this fact just because I like her. Actually, her flaws such as her greed and entitlement are part of what make her so interesting to me in the first place.

[@jer9grant]

@@LalodysLoreYes! To be not 'in a position to give back', she is prioritizing her duty as a Medarda over-well, being a decent human and good person.

[@EvilbunnyStrikesBack]

⁠​⁠@@LalodysLoreMel’s flaw isn’t greed and entitlement, which is something most Piltover citizens has in various forms. Her statement for not helping people is about her Noxus upbringing. Her flaw is trying to live up to the Medarda’s standards by implementing her teaching and improving Piltover. Also to say she values being “powerful and wealthy more than value doing good”, shows you didn’t understand her true character of empathy because even though she placed more are in Piltover safety over Zaun, she constantly stated how Hextech should be used as a defense and a last resort, to avoid an unnecessary war.

[@LalodysLore]

If she didn't value wealth over being a good person, why did she never give back until it was financially beneficial for her to do so? It's not like it was state wealth she was managing, purely her own. While people starved (and worse) in Zaun she owned multiple fancy buildings, the opera house, had the most influence as a councillor etc. I'm not saying she's evil, but charity was not a priority for her.

[@EvilbunnyStrikesBack]

@@LalodysLore These questions you have for Mel would apply to everyone in Piltover council. Especially given, the Zaun vs Piltover issue was before Mel. Could she used her power to influence the council, yes, but she didn’t and just continued with the flow. These questions can even be extended to Zaun leaders as well for not wanting to help their own people. In regards to Mel, her sole focus and goal was increasing Piltover influence, initially for her family benefits then possibly for her own motive and legacy as a council, which if I remember correctly is mentioned by Mel in her first appearance, as well as her belittling her own “wealth and power” in comparison to her family. Mel wanting to give back in response to Jayce is because her Noxus upbringing focused on becoming stronger, conquering, ruling; which from my interpretation started to change due to Jayce’s influence and further pushed when her mother came.

[@helenapeculiar]

I don't have anything to say really, but I wante to let you know HOW MUCH I liked this video. I had such a good time watching it. It was so interesting and insightful and even though I've been severely hyperfixating on Arcane and JayVik since season 2 ended, you still managed to come up with so many new, unique and clever thoughts and observations. Thank you so much!

[@LalodysLore]

I'm so glad! Thanks for letting me know your thoughts ❤️

[@msbluebell]

Finally, someone I trust explaining League to me.

[@itsdantaylor]

25:54 I had noticed this before in terms of the 'Jesus imagery' but now it makes sense for the 'lamb' imagery. Viktor's cane grows and changes, it ceases to become a cane and become, more like a shepherds crook.

[@LalodysLore]

Yep! Also, the way he offers the people his salvation was very reminiscent of Lamb's arrow being a merciful death.

[@jacquelineponce5857]

Thank you so much, as an asexual myself, what christian said hurted me so deeply cause now ignorat people use that against the shipp, Im so happy people like you can see us as capable to love and be loved, I love jayvik also and even if viktor was asexual he can still date jayce, is also hurtfull how a character destine to lose his humanity is seing as asexual in my opinion, this video was amazing, sorry my bad english.

[@LalodysLore]

All the asexual community wants is purely normal human rep is that so much to ask for 😭😭

[@jacquelineponce5857]

@LalodysLore exactly 💞

[@beden653]

16:36 When speaking about the fox, she reflects her attitude towards diplomacy. In s1ep8, Ambessa says to Mel (in flashback), speaking about Kino "he fancies himself fox among the wolves". So every time Mel tried to resolve the issue gently through diplomacy, Ambessa would refer to the fox. Except for the last scene, where Mel was able to sacrifice her mother and became a wolf.

[@LalodysLore]

Yeah but who is the Fox? It's presumably equal to Wolf if they're compared.

[@beden653]

@LalodysLore In Ambessa's eyes, I think it's synonymous with "Weak character, incapable of serious actions. A person always waving his tail in politics". I don't know why, but in my mind, a fox is something graceful, but secretive and manipulative. Unlike a wolf, who bares his teeth and is ready to show his strength.But this is just my guess. Maybe that's why she compared Kino and Mel to foxes, believing that they needed to be both a fox and a wolf at the same time in Noxus to survive.

[@hidummie3298]

I did see a video by Necrit that did mention what the desert fox was about maybe it's that

[@permin9533]

NOOOOOOOO you made me insane with the last theory...

[@LalodysLore]

Imagine how I felt when it emerged from my subconscious and I couldn't get rid of it 🤣

[@LaurentRias9148]

OMG, FINALLY, Lalody where were you 😭 it's been so longggggg, literally a year. Glad you're back ❤ seems I'm the first here too

[@LalodysLore]

Do you know how long it takes to read all the lore for League of Legends 🤣

[@jadee7448]

Amazing video! There are just soo many parallels between viktor and mel and i love seeing people talk about them

[@Zoey653]

59:13 OMG! I thought this before it was revealed that Victor was the mage! Like “Oh! What if the mage was Mel’s father, then Jayce and Mel would be more connected than they thought previously!” When I found out it was Victor, I backpedaled so quickly!!! 😭💀

[@LalodysLore]

I just need it to be proven impossible 😂

[@toodleloos]

this video was SO good and thank you for making it ❤ i saw arcane in detail get absolutely jumped on twitter a couple days ago despite the fact they're a genuine mel fan and it was so unnecessary. so as someone who's also newly obsessed with league lore this is beautiful, answered a lot of questions i had that arcane left me with, lots of gorgeous visuals (of mel and in general lol) , and someone talking about the INTENTIONAL parallels in a neutral space. so thank you for this also as an asexual those statements from CL make me so aggressive lol so double appreciate you setting the record straight about asexuals

[@LalodysLore]

The Arcane in Detail account makes a lot of really good posts. The fandom space right now on Twitter is really difficult to exist in as someone who really like Mel and Viktor but also acknowledges their flaws. Viktor's (and JayVik) fanbase is much larger so it's easy to find some like-minded people but the Mel fanbase is pretty small with a large overlap with JayMel shippers who will assume you are racist/sexist/whatever for preferring JayVik. I also fundamentally disagree with most of the fandom's interpretation of Mel, most of which would refuse to even acknowledge she was the wolf even with her finale scene and wolf Mel merch 😭😭 Sometimes I feel like I watched a totally different show. I hope in Noxus we get to see even more blatant depictions of her skills in manipulation and fierceness, ideally as she becomes Guile.

[@toodleloos]

​@LalodysLore oh so true! in fact i regret i ended up blocking most of the mel fans for the reason you mentioned above and just their general animosity towards jayvik shippers because i ADORE mel. i love that she was a complicated character that youre supposed to be wary of but empathize with and ia im really disappointed that the moment you mention she's manipulative, which she is, its just all bets off for some of the mel fans on twitter. you just cant interact at all which is a shame. but the moment you mentioned mel and swain i got SO excited cuz i honestly was rolling my eyes at meljay, not because i ship jayvik cuz i didnt at the time but because i was like mel can do better 😂 sorry to jayce, he's great but I was like eh. for MOST mel ships. the thought that she could be with a powerful sorcerer though that agrees with her politics and is trying to stop world-ending things from happening?? im totally into that tho! and im going to have to forget the viktor father thing for my own sanity because him jumping through the timelines was hard enough for me 🤣 ambessa totally would tho

[@LalodysLore]

OMG! Welcome to Swain X Mel I swear this is the glory era (unless the tv show changes Swain a lot..?) Swain is one hell of a catch that can definitely keep up with her. They would make the perfect power couple. There's no fanart but my ex-artist hands have been itching to pick up that pen to fix that 😭

[@Mialikesthings]

@@LalodysLore Mel x Swain is crazy (I mean this In a good way)

[@Chrysatis]

STOP 🤣🤚🤚🤚 you have cursed me with that bit at the end :"))

[@LalodysLore]

Mission accomplished hahaha

[@volpe4570]

Daaaamn your theory at the end blew my mind!

[@epicazeroth]

Thank you for saving me from being tempted to read League lore direct frm the source

[@LalodysLore]

I've genuinely enjoyed the Ruination novel but yeah having most of the lore split across short stories that you can never be sure are still actually completely canon is certainly a struggle

[@BoredomInMyLife]

It’s literally WICKED Gelphiero

[@witchgroup]

Do i need to point that the puppet walk the same way as Mel ? Which also mean that Viktor dis mimic her walk lol

[@UmamiNoodle]

The last few minutes made me die. Thank you for this! Please more arcane and runeterra videos. :)

[@LalodysLore]

If this video is well received then I likely will talk about LoL more often. Any particular topics you're interested in?

[@tidaloctoling715]

6:50 It was actually Zoe's predecessor that sealed the Darkin away, Zoe is the newer aspect of twilight

[@LalodysLore]

Yep but that's too much unnecessary info for an already pretty dense story so I didn't bother with specifics since it functionally doesn't matter for what I'm trying to teach

[@tidaloctoling715]

​@@LalodysLore Fair point!

[@fun-epersonnproductions4002]

"Uhm achchwly." 🤓🤓🤓☝️☝️☝️

[@chrysalis6378]

And if I said that the Mel/Jayce relationship was there as a sexuality compass for them and especially Jayce? As a callback to show how hetero he is? And if I also said that all that bs everyone came up with such as a "transcedant soulmate friendship" is total looney and people are willing to come up with never heard before phrases just to make sure its not gay? Would I be wrong? It's clear that the writers and the animators were telling different stories.

[@LalodysLore]

The transcendental platonic soulmates argument feels very 2010 no gays allowed in canon vibes 😭😭 10/10 would find in a shonen anime ending. So tired of this...

[@shaunw638]

You would most certainly be wrong. Why can’t he be heterosexual. It’s like you have an issue with straight characters. So two men that aren’t romantic can’t have a soulmate dynamic? It can’t be transcendent? Seems like you have a very limited view of what non romantic male relationships can be. By what you are saying you are low key calling the writers homophobes.

[@chrysalis6378]

@@shaunw638 Because I said so. Yes I have issues with straight characters. No. No. Yes. Yes.

[@conkerzone]

Great video, but also how do i report that last part? How dare you!!! Ahhhhh!

[@xerosereify]

Well I'm glad I'm not the only one who had the incredibly cursed thought about old man Viktor being Mels dad😅

[@xerosereify]

(My secondary cursed theory is that old man Viktor is also Ryze)

[@LalodysLore]

I've had both of those cursed thoughts too LMAOO but I doubt Viktor Ryze is possible cause they don't really look alike

[@xerosereify]

​@@LalodysLore To be fair, Viktor doesn't much look like Viktor either😅

[@itsdantaylor]

26:30 I am less inclined to believe that the sky we saw was some kind of 'eldritch force' coercing Viktor to 'evil' like a lot of people think. Viktor was willing to die in order to try and cure Vander, a thing Sky encouraged him to. It was only after Jayce 'killed him' that he accepted the final step towards his 'glorious evolution' and in doing so seemingly 'let's sky go', I think Sky more so represented Viktor's deep guilt over hextech. He didn't care what he had to do to make hex tech happen/grow but he was only willing to sacrifice himself because he was already dying. When Sky dies, he reflects on how much his 'hex tech dream' had actually taken in terms of lives and how ultimately, it hasn't really 'saved' anyone. As such his guilt coerces him into saving as may people as he can, even at the cost of his life, before Jayce kills him and everyone in the settlement by extension. Its then he decides he will achieve his 'goal' of fixing everything even if it means abandoning his guilt over helping people now by force.

[@LalodysLore]

I think I'm viewing the healing and encouragement of the healing as the hexcore's desire to create the hivemind and complete the world takeover like the runes have been trying to do seemingly every time this happens.

[@quanphan8967]

Would love to see more videos on League lore!

[@LalodysLore]

If there's something in particular I feel a need to talk about then I'm definitely open to it, especially since I've already put in so much effort to catch up haha

[@quanphan8967]

@@LalodysLoreI got into League’s lore after Arcane, and it was suprising to see that the lore community is much less active than that of Genshin/ HSR. Your style of character and event analysis would definitely adds depth to the timeline-maybe something similar to your SU/DU vids!

[@LalodysLore]

It's surprising because LoL is so popular but I guess it fosters more of a competitive audience than character/story driven audience

[@samehere310]

the wolf and the lamb parallel is cool i never made the connection. can you also make a video on mordekaiser pls

[@LalodysLore]

I'm sure necrit has 1 or 2 of those haha

[@samehere310]

@@LalodysLore he does but I love the way explain you stuff it's easier to follow as a beginner 😭

[@LalodysLore]

I'll consider it

[@breashah810]

i’m smo who has only watched arcane so learning more about the worlds magic system and the backstories of certain characters was very fascinating to me. i was confused by the raven scene at the end and now i have even more questions 😅 maybe i will fall into the trap and start playing lol fr the lore

[@LalodysLore]

LoL itself doesn't really have much lore since it's just a MOBA but you might be interested in reading the short stories for the characters, playing Legends of Runeterra, or a few of the story games for LoL you can find on steam.

[@konstancemakjaveli]

Personally, i feel like having them directly state in the show that they do have romantic affection would take away too much from the suspension of disbelief and would actually lower the audience perception. Unlike in episode 8 of season 2, where vi and cait do the thing, there isnt rly a moment for jayce and viktor to go and tell their "true feelings" or anything. It would rly come down to JKRowling-ing it and saying it outside the show, which they actually did go and do, but the opposite - they denied it.

[@LalodysLore]

I think some would argue that the timing of CaitVi's thing doing definitely took away from suspension of disbelief. Also, whether or not there is good timing for romantic scenes depends on writing so there's a lack of good timing because it wasn't the intent, however I would say the "in all timelines in all possibilities" speech could've slipped something in pretty easily from Mage Viktor but it would be more fulfilling from regular Viktor. Jayce could've easily fit something into his ~there is beauty in imperfections~ speech, too. Ultimately, the most satisfying is show don't tell, of course, which some would argue was the case with their final scene where Jayce pulls Viktor in close. Unfortunately, it's also ambiguous which leads to much of the ship drama we see today. Extra unfortunately everyone is a loser because MelJay broke up and Christian Linke had to word of God take away everyone's fun 🤷

[@heliobye]

Arcane?!?! From Lalody?!?! More likely than you think!!!

[@LalodysLore]

I've been in severe hyperfocus about this for a month+ send help

[@of5606]

Oh my god mel x swain is such a cursed ship, great video though

[@of5606]

Also, thanks for putting into words how much there is to dislike about linke's statements about jayvik

[@LalodysLore]

Wdym Mel and Swain could be perfect especially when Swain gets his TV show glowup like the rest of the cast (assuming he doesn't get turned into an actual old man?). As for Linke's statements they were so incredibly nonsensical it made me realise how unfortunate JayVik were and it resulted in me shipping them faster 🤣🤣 I was okay with the platonic interpretation at first but not anymore. Here's hoping the narrative (and finance) team sees what he couldn't and gives the people what they want.

[@vanspratzy9573]

50:47 so what you meaning to say here, is that you can only see Jayce and Viktor being together if Viktor is a woman? That if it’s not straight, you can’t see it…ok?

[@LalodysLore]

Yeah you caught me Lalody the renowned homophobe known for shipping straight ships ? In all seriousness, even ppl who are LGBT with majority ships being mlm (me) can have moments of blindness. I finished Arcane in one day and didn't have time to fully digest what I was watching til I took time to do that later. While I definitely see the events as having romantic potential in retrospect, I went into Season 2 with a bias against JayVik thanks to canon Machine Herald and Jayce lore prior. While the writers claim to have written JayVik as strictly platonic, I believe that they would have written it fully romantic if they were straight. I know many people have this inability to see romance between same sex people that would otherwise be considered romantic between straight people so the point of that segment of the video is to aid those individuals in seeing it from our perspective.

[@Crreus]

If you're delving into league lore, I request a video on my boy rammus. There's likely a lot of shipping material there with that one

[@LalodysLore]

Rolly polly :)

[@rw7567]

48:19 I love your input but I do want to point out that Victor manipulated Jayce's life from the start. In the grand scheme of things, BOTH Mel and Viktor were master manipulators who used Jayce to push their own agendas. Mel thought what she was doing would help Piltover. Viktor needed Jayce to reverse his horrible mistake and save the world. Mel and Viktor are literally the same...

[@LalodysLore]

Trying to overcome an apocalyptic event through time travel and giving someone a different magic rock to see what happens is NOT the same as manipulating someone in social situations. Also, the Viktor that Jayce knew and spoke to every day was not trying to manipulate him. These things are so incredibly not equivalent.

[@illyrianaa]

How does one’s brain even work to come up with a take this horrible?

[@Mialikesthings]

@@illyrianaaPeople have such cursed minds. Many people say that Biktor is a groomer and that Jimx probably SA’d Cait

[@rw7567]

@@illyrianaa the whole meaning of manipulation is to influence someone thru deceit. Deceit includes leaving stuff out, including not letting someone in on your “grand plan”. Viktor had godlike powers to travel through time and into people’s timelines. He (like Mel) was a strategist. He says it himself. He chose to continuously give Jayce runes without explanation. I do not care his intent, that is the very definition of manipulation. And in fact, just like Jayce confronted Mel with her manipulation in Act 3, he does the same when he finds out that Viktor was his masked savior. He literally asks Viktor why he would do such a thing. There were other ways Viktor could have chosen to influence Jayce without being underhanded about it. However, he chose manipulation. Doesn’t mean he didn’t love Jayce, just like it doesn’t mean Mel didn’t love Jace. People are imperfect. And we all come with baggage and ideals. Sometimes we (like Mel/Viktor) make choices thinking it’s for the best, only to inadvertently hurt the ones we love (here’s looking at Ambessa and Cait on that too). Even Jayce used some manipulation to do what he thought was right (poor Heimerdinger!). My mind isn’t any more fucked than anyone else’s. I just saw Mel and Viktors parallels were more straightforward than people want to accept. And I think part of that is our own innate bias. Viktor is a sympathetic anti-hero bc we relate to his upbringing. He came from the bottom up. Mel is a less sympathetic anti-hero bc she had priviledge. She’s a 1%-er and therefore less relatable so we discount her struggle.

[@Gratefullyeveryday]

VIKTOR WITH AMBESSA IS JUST LIKE HYDRATED VIKTOR (ambessa twink) BECOME CANON LMAO. Otherwise i like how you explained these stuffs bcs i really have no idea about LOL and also Riot. I only knows their songs are greats and Faker always be the king of LoL lmao.

[@LalodysLore]

The songs are indeed quite great haha and Faker is a cultural icon at this point. I'm glad you enjoyed my explanations ❤️

[@galaxy_minds1290]

Oh so this is a jayvik shipper vid in disguise...

[@LalodysLore]

Shipping drama related things are left to the last segment

[@bullseye89-iq3yv]

I was going to write a long paragraph style essay in defense of close male relationships based on my own friendships, but I think I just realized I'm Biromantic (after looking that up) so I guess let JxV flag fly. I will say that its telling that even the close platonic relationships you listed are often socially flagged as homoerotic even if explicitly not intended to be that way (Sam and Frodo in particular come to mind). It does feel like close male relationships get it from both sides (both straight and gay) on how "obviously gay" they are.

[@LalodysLore]

I'm so happy for you that you've discovered a bit more about yourself today ❤️ As for the rest, I think it's pretty complex and an issue that will persist so long as there is a lack of true male romance normalised in media. One, because a normalisation of male romance decreases homophobia, and two, because it removes the need for queercoding thus reducing the rates of male friendships being read as queer. TBH, I think the reason I didn't see JayVik at first as romantic is because I've become so normalised to canon LGBT in the media I consume that I forgot some media and writers are still very reluctant to show gay men (and yes Riot definitely counts here, it took so long to get anything from them). With that realisation, I've concluded that male platonic relationships being read as romantic would be significantly less of an issue if the world just stopped being homophobic (shocker).

[@avamarvolo1004]

It's such a shame to see another woman give such a misogynistic and surface level reading of Mel and Jayce’s complex relationship. Thank god there are better video essays out there.

[@LalodysLore]

What exactly is misogynistic about my interpretation of Mel and Jayce's relationship? She told you herself that she was using him and the artbook reiterated with a quote from Amanda Overton that Mel was intended to be read as a likely villain until 108 where you see she has multiple layers. It's not misogynistic to see and point out this intended depiction. On top of that, Overton said she intended for MelJay to be boring and used their love scene to make the CaitVi love scene look better. The reality is you were never supposed to root for MelJay (evident by their breakup scene) and the way Mel interacted with Jayce was supposed to make you uncomfortable if you knew what to look for from manipulative people... And the show really did try to make that as obvious as it possibly could. This reminds me of Viego how the writers intended for him to be likeable to teenagers but any adult with any world experience with people would be able to see how toxic he was to Isolde and understand why he was a villain. The writers at riot do not shy away from writing characters in toxic and/or incompatible relationships and this is just another one.

[@avamarvolo1004]

@ Oh please, this video doesn't come close to adult or intellectual analysis. It is also odd that you'd single out Amanda Overton, whose statements hsve been rightly called ignorant and unprofessional regarding Mel, Caitvi, Silco and Vander, when she is just one of many writers working on Arcane. When LoL themselves have come out with voicelines affirming the legitimacy of Jayce and Mel’s love for one another and even Viktor’s respect for her. You are willfully ignorant of the Jezebel stereotype and reinforcing racist and sexist ideas that you don't even know enough about to know you're reproducing in your rhetoric. As I said before, Mel and Jayce’s relationship is complex. More complex than your analysis allows for because of your own internal biases. As I said before, there is better analysis out there. Thank God.

[@LalodysLore]

@avamarvolo1004 Amanda Overton is singled out because she was the writer who focused on the romantic subplots and was responsible for adding the sex scene with Mel and Jayce. While there are plenty of writers, her opinion is particularly weighted because it was largely her work that specifically made the content in discussion. It appears you're upset because you like Mel and Jayce as a couple which is fine but doesn't really facilitate us having a constructive conversation about Mel's character. I also don't want to participate in discussions with people who resort to ad hominem. As for racial and sexist stereotypes, I can guarantee you my read on Mel would be identical regardless of her appearance. Although I really wouldn't categorise Mel as a Jezebel. I think if you were going to have that discussion it would first be about Ambessa but I'm not particularly comfortable with anything condemning women for having active and consensual sex lives. As for the voicelines, I quite like them for a few reasons. Firstly, Jayce's ally voiceline "are we beyond repair" reminds us that their relationship was indeed quite damaged. His enemy voiceline "what are planning Mel, for me, for us?" Is a good reminder that he is now aware that she always has some other intentions now and is sceptical. "You were luminous Mel" as a kill quote carries similar weight to when he told her she was never a passenger, similar as his "show me you're the one in control" quote. He always respected her and knew she was powerful so these make perfect sense for him. Mel's voiceline about affection or ambition highlights her split priorities and that her ambition is indeed quite important to her (obviously). The death quote is sweet and gives insight that she did love him, as is left ambiguous in the show (tho personally I leaned towards she did grow to love him), but as I said in the video it doesn't matter to me if she does or doesn't because Jayce isn't a good match for her.

[@pathological8231]

Insinuating the arcane writers are being homophobic when they just didn’t want a brotherly relationship to be taken as romantic because that wasn’t the intent is WILD to me. Not everything has to be romantic there are other relationships that exist. Mel and Jayce fracturing and actually not ending up together was actually fantastic. And using the viktor genderbend excuse makes absolutely no sense, it’s an argument drawing on societal norms that men and women can’t be friends, and by saying they absolutely would have ended in a romance if viktor was a woman is actually endorsing this idea and treating it as normal. You completely ignored one relationship that was opposite sex but still platonic, Jayce and Caitlyn Jayce and Caitlyn have been very good friends since they were younger and i hated how they didn’t get a lot of screentime together in season 2. I’m pretty sure the only scene is when they’re in the garden talking about Viktor’s state, Jinx, and Vi rejecting the badge. But in season 1 you see them being really close, almost sibling-like. But oh look, they didn’t turn into a relationship. In Arcane, no one says the words “Gay, Straight, Bi” at all. Ever. Bi says man or woman in the brothel because diverse sexuality is extremely normal in Arcane to the point it’s not even something you think about. We don’t ever get in show confirmation that Cait or Vi is a lesbian, that Jayce or Jinx is straight. I don’t doubt some of them are but the point is that you’re not supposed to know because those words dont exist. So even if Viktor was a Woman, that wouldn’t change anything in the slightest. You don’t need a romantic ending to a story to make it a good story. If people want to ship Viktor and Jayce that’s perfectly fine, a lot of the parallels allow interpretation of a romantic or sensual nature. All of arcanes relationships are ambiguous, that’s why i love the show. But there is an actual canon explanation for their relationship, so when people treat a headcanon like it’s actual canon is absolutely wrong. And using alleged homophobia to explain away why your headcanon isn’t canon is absolutely foul. It’s also important to point out your understanding of Asexuality is flawed. Asexuality is both a sexuality and an umbrella term for both Asexuality and Aromanticism. This is the same for Homosexuality and Heterosexuality and Bisexuality. If you say you are gay or homosexual, 9 times out of 10, that’s both sexual and romantic. Same as asexuality. And yes while asexuals can feel small attraction, not all of them do. And not all get into relationships. Just because it’s an extremely common depiction doesn’t mean it’s not valid

[@LalodysLore]

Jayce and Caitlyn didn't have a cosmic soulmate plotline genuinely what is the comparison? Not everything has to be romantic, true, and arcane has a lot of platonic relationships, but Jayce and Viktor specifically are THE most important person in each other's lives and it's not even close. "Now, all I want is my partner back" "In all timelines, in all possibilities, only you can show me this" are not average statements and they're certainly not statements shared between any other characters. While most sexualities imply the same romantic attraction, that is not true for asexuality and never has been. Aroace is its own term for a reason. Most of the asexuals I've met irl and online have had a different romantic attraction. Most aromatics I've met have not been asexual. Don't pretend asexual implied aromantic because homosexual implies homoromantic.

[@LalodysLore]

Also, you're wrong. Runeterra has canon sexualities. Graves directly tells us he is gay in the Boys and Bombolini.

[@pathological8231]

@ I’ll respond to your second comment first because its shorter. Arcane was not designed to be canon, so the league of legends canon was different to the arcane canon until they decided to MAKE arcane canon. Nowhere in the show do they say gay bi or straight or even ace

[@LalodysLore]

Boys and Bombolini came out after Arcane

[@LalodysLore]

Also yes they do "What'll it be? Man or woman?"

[@mrglassscience]

43 great minutes of lore and analysis, then the shipping drama... ew

[@LalodysLore]

Bro that's why it was last I said you didn't have to stay 😭

[@mrglassscience]

@LalodysLore It was my fault, I was warned

[@shaunw638]

Implying that writers confirming Jayce and Viktor were not romantic due to homophobia is wicked and intellectually lazy. This is one of the reasons why shippers and non-shippers can’t have honest conversations because shippers have to throw bs claims of homophobia. Also one main comment Jayvik shippers make is that it’s art and it’s for interpretation and that you all respect the non romantic interpretation so your Jayvik ship should be respected. This is so disingenuous and videos like this prove that. If you respected others opinion you wouldn’t be so quick to label their view point as rooted in homophobia. You dismiss any validity of any one else’s interpretation and in a disgusting way to even suggest it comes from homophobia and mlm erasure. Also no one is saying that there aren’t any close male relationships in media. What is being said is that many of these are often accused of actually being gay relationships. Every-time 2 males are shown to be close beyond the surface level there are people who categorize their interactions as romantic. It happened with many of the examples you showed one in particular being Merlin and King Arthur. People are tired of 2 men not being able to be friends and explore all the levels of relationships that exist outside of romance. People like the Jayvik shippers would shun stereotypes any other time but with Jayvik stereotypes are ok as long as it confirms the ship. That’s so hypocritical. It’s also horrible to diminish Christian Linke importance to the show. If he would have confirmed Jayvik as a romance you all would have sang his praises and took his statement as a definitive one to shut all debate down. He was a creator and writer so how can you minimize his importance. I read he was very heavy in the writing of the last episode so all of those beautiful words that Jayce spoke to Vik were written with no romantic intent. Amanda Overton even stated that Jayce and Vik were written as brotherly with an unambiguous love between them. That means the love you see is not meant to be unclear. If she said they were written as unambiguously romantic none of you shippers would ever entertain any other interpretation. You speak of homophobia but I bet you won’t address the misogyny and misogynoir that many Jayvik shippers have expressed or the history of misogyny in fandom in general.

[@Diamanrouge]

The curse of knowing there's no reason your final theory couldn't be true... gosh... Thanks for the vd. It's quite different of what is discussed in the community and it's a breath of fresh air. You care about being fair in your assessments and I really appreciate it.

[@LalodysLore]

I appreciate that you noticed I try to be fair. It's important to me that all of the available information is accounted for and mentioned regardless of if I agree or disagree. As for the final theory, I was really hoping someone out there had a good reason it can't be true but unfortunately nothing yet...

[@Llylandrill]

Hey! I loved you video (the Lore part gave me a lot more context for what certain things happened the way they did) I'm not sure I agree on the interpretation of Linke's statement. I am Ace, questioning Aro, and of course, my opinion is only mine, I do not talk on behalf of the whole Ace community (I think it is quite obvious from the discourse that has been happening even amongst Ace fans). While I will not praise Linke for this 'Word of God" representation, dismissing it as a ploy to erase a ship feels weird to me. In his words he clearly says there is Love between them and that this love can take unconventionnal forms and I don't think it dismissed something most would identify as romantic, but maybe this is the relationship anarchist in me talking. Personnaly, I ship JayVik romanticaly and I'm not sure if I want to take Viktor being Ace as canon since post show confirmation does not count in my eyes. However arguments like "of course it's the unfeeling machine man who is Ace" rings disingenous to me? like, we watched the same show right? Maybe Machine Herald Viktor was an unfeeling scientist but Arcane Victor is obviouly someone who feels A LOT, who is a fully realized character, one of the best in the whole series! Arcana took the time to show how sensible and empathetic Viktor is. He is a bit of a trope, being an overworking man of science, but not nearly the worse of its kind to be Ace. And for the disability aspect... I had the same reaction at first but more and more I see disabled Ace people in the community speaking up about how uncomfortable it make them to see potential representation dismissed because it doesn't fit the "good Ace representation". How little by little the arguments are sounding more and more ableist. Ace people can be disabled and many often talk about how they feel erased by the community by the fear of "being bad representation". I had a huge double take when the first excerpts from the interview were shared, and it still make me raise and eyebrow, but reading the full interview it seems to me more as a clumsily worded response (to a question that he was asked about the relationship I might add, he did not bring it up unprompted) than a attempt at erasing a ship. I certainly won't stop me at least. Of course I do not say all this to say "JayVik is 100% platonic", because I ship them, In my eyes they are in romantic love, I'm just commenting on the Ace aspect, and those things are highly nuanced and divisive even amongst Aces. I'm confilicted because canon Ace characters with active representation in the source material are already so easily dismissed in fandom spaces. Dismissing a writer's insight as "just homophia" leave a bad taste in my mouth almost as much as the Word of God "trust me bro" representation... (Mage Viktor as Mel's father make burst out laughting omg, best crack theory i've seen for sure!)

[@LalodysLore]

I've interpreted it as a ploy to erase a ship because he brings it up only when specifically asked if there's something going on between JayVik despite the reality that asexuality wouldn't even prevent JayVik from happening. As for the rest, because Machine Herald is so stereotypical ace rep tier I find it Very Strange that he didn't just pick literally any other character to explore asexuality. Even if Arcane Viktor is emotional he is still derived from Machine Herald so Christian still picked Machine Herald in the planning process. He clearly doesn't know much about asexuality so him using it as some kinda gotcha anti-JayVik argument in interviews has left me very bitter.

[@Llylandrill]

@@LalodysLore I think we're justified to be sceptical, to be honest I am as well because Asexuality is increesingly being used to push a conservative agenda, I am not oblivious to that. I am also very familiar with Ace aspects of queer characters being erased in favor of portraying an allo relationship when adapted, that's where my unease comes from. And it could totally be me giving the writer way too much grace, but the thing is we can't really know for sure if he meant it as a gotcha moment, since they didn't bother to put it in the show (and that's personaly my biggest criticism) I read it as someone who understand the basic concepts of split attraction but not really having the time or having the words to do an Asexuality 101. TBH a lot of this issue would be resolved by having more ace characters (if we're going beyond Arcane, Elise would be my personal pick!) being pictured as actually ace in the show. I'm not here to tell people they're right or wrong or that the shouldn't be careful about what that declaration was for, I just want to provide another perspective, not change anyone's mind. I'm certainly not about to die on the hill on the half-assed Ace representation that is supposedly Viktor!

[@ViiveV-e2b]

I think if they would have wanted to explore a character's asexuality with any intention, it would fit the plot and add an extra layer to the Jayvik story very seamlessly! Jayce gets progressively more confused and is being torn apart internally over the growing responsibility and pressure and choices he has to make between everything Mel and Viktor represent - the shiny, socially normative power couple life that while fueling his ego, confuses his heart and lacks authenticity, vs. the authentically happy vulnerable love with his bonded soulmate partner, heavily risking financial security and social status, and potentially losing his soulmate because of his disability. - In a way this is a choice between normative and queer. As a bisexual with quite a bunch of soul-searching experience under my belt, I think Jayce's naive people pleaser -character is relatable in his struggles and his confusion. I think his soulmate being asexual would completely add a believable layer of things that make Jayce and Viktor confused about the nature of their feelings for one another. - That wouldn't make their story any less queer though. If they didn't want to make a queer story, they could have just written a story that doesn't work like a queer story. And they just - didn't explore Viktor's asexuality. If they wanted to, I think they should have! I'm also not opposed to disabled ace characters, as long as disabled ace people are being consulted about how they should explore the themes respectfully. But in this specific case where the writer mentions he thought of Viktor as asexual kind of as a way to disprove the inherent queerness of the story, it does strike me as ableism and homophobia. Maybe not intentional, but in this ableist and homophobic society, many people intuitively feel uncomfortable if gay men or disabled people are portrayed as sexual beings, while also intuitively "shipping" and sexualising any interaction between able-bodied female and male characters, even with zero chemistry.

[@Llylandrill]

@@ViiveV-e2b I love what you've imagined for the series exploring their relationship in a more explicitly queer way and having Ace Viktor actually play into the story line!! I think I would've also really like to see an Ace/Allo relationship explored on screen, that would be super interesting and fresh (since a lot of Ace rep tend to mostly include characters not in any romantic relationship) and speak to a lot of Aces' experiences! I would totally believe there may be unconcious bias at play in Linke's vision (or maybe not unconcious at all, I'm just not sure about people loudly claiming that is was ONLY to push aside a ship, because what's the point? The show is done, Death of the Author and all that). My main criticism and the thing we should call him out for in my opinion will stay "If he has always being Ace, why not put it IN the damn show" Animated shows are also the collaboration of a lot of people who all add their own visions and interpretations, so even if Linke's saw them as platonic, we can thank all the people between him and the final product for all the longing glaces and intimacy. To me that matter's more than a post show interview in a German livestream no one really watched in the first place.