Archery | Aggressive Stance?

[@tjj4lab]

I swear that longbow is crafted with witchcraft. I’ve never heard a bow so quiet, I’ve heard lower poundage bows that uses string silencers and limb pads that still sound louder than that thing.

[@DarxusC]

I've heard people say longbows are quieter than recurves. None of them mentioned why. Maybe the string slaps the arms on recurves?

[@TheSaneHatter]

Here's an important detail that you might have chosen to touch on: In combative shooting, the choice to "hunker down" in this way is also influenced by the need to *present a smaller target*, based on the premise that someone will be shooting BACK. With archery long removed from warfare, this is not something that 21st-century bowmen worry about nearly as much.

[@pepebeezon772]

Not really, actually you square off to present your plates. Shooting sideways presents a smaller target. With knees bent you can roll your steps and reduce bobbing while shooting on the move

[@dace48]

The martial arts background immediately made sense to me, straight away I thought "That looks like the Horse stance." I think that you've nailed it, it gives the illusion of stability not the actuality. I remember numerous discussions with Shotokan Karate guys who insisted that a low stance was the most stable, compared to our Jiu Jitsu stances which were more upright.

[@elevown]

Good vid :) Made perfect sense too. That stance is great for martial arts for good balance that also gives you the ability to react and move well, and also to get power off the floor well (by pushing or pivoting with your legs etc) - but you just don't need the power or movement speed for archery. Also in martial arts you would be holding the stance a couple of minutes not for hours. Your legs would kill after hours of crouching. It also adds more variables and variation to shooting, because you cant guarantee you will couch to the exact same degree or angle every time. It wont matter at shorter ranges but it would for longer range target shooting consistency.

[@daveh7720]

In defensive handgun shooting classes I've had, the crouch stance is indicated exactly for the reason Nu says - it's versatile. You can dodge left or right, advance or retreat, or move to cover, but it's still a stable enough postiton to shoot from. But most defensive firearm situations are shot from a distance of 7 meters or less. It's not appropriate for typical archery distances. (Unless maybe the target is shooting back. I'd watch a match like that, but there's no way I'd participate in one. (grin)) In the rifle target shooting classes I've attended, the emphasis is on finding a stable position that minimizes the use of muscles to maintain position and aim. An experienced rifle shooter can hit bullseyes at hundreds of meters or more in spite of having drunk several cups of coffee, because he's not using his muscles (which tremble under the influence of caffeine) to support the rifle - he's using his skeleton. He relaxes as many muscles a possible. Properly done, it's an easy position to maintain for a long time, and provides the most stable platform to shoot from. It's also less fatiguing, since a rilfe can feel heavy after a while. The one situation I can imagine where shooting a bow from a crouch is necessary is hunting. It may be necessary to crouch to shoot under an obstruction. But like you say, you're not going to be holding that position for more than a few minutes.

[@rustwolfian6682]

But how else will i express that I am aggressive and generally doing a lot of damage shooting that way ?

[@mortenjacobsen5673]

try screaming and scowling

[@mateuszkrause]

@@mortenjacobsen5673 killed me XD

[@ReinhardvonHolst]

Great vid. Peace from the UK as always.

[@Vinnay94]

Sideways stance is also used in Karate, Taekwondo albeit more Bladed where as in Muay Thai, Kickboxing, the stance is more Open. Bear in mind that the first 2 arts don't just have the one stance.

[@MiyuHimano]

I can agree with the things you talked about. Many years ago I did karate and we learned to get use of different stances. They are all for stability for incoming forces or fast movement and efficient attacks. I won't think about to use this stances in archery... power off :D

[@TheCrimsonAtom]

My instinctive coach taught me to also take your legs a bit forward to make sure you're standing on your entire foot. Most of us stand at around 70% heel and 30% fingers, but if you move your legs very slightly forwards you'll be more of a 50/50%. Not sure if it's good for ALL archery types but it's doing great work on our style of shooting.

[@gabithemagyar]

The crouched stance with canted bow is useful if, like me, you shoot in your basement which may have a lower ceiling height than main floor rooms. Keeps the tip of the bow from crashing into the ceiling when you shoot :-) I don't find the position much of a strain … possibly because I used to fence which also used a crouching stance.

[@shaihulud4515]

I know about 100 people that realy should watch this video! Thumps up!

[@TheAegisClaw]

Excellent video, also I'd like to add; repeatability. With a horse riding stance you may be a little higher or a little lower each time. If you stand up straight you will be the same height each time. This makes a fairly significant difference to accuracy in my experience. After all, archery is an art of repetition.

[@shorea27]

Looks great in combat archery.

[@space.youtube]

Open stance with bent knees is ideal for hunting (stalking) where a target isn't always static ( sudden target adjustment is made possible) , and it's better for canted bow allowing greater draw length by 'drawing back' the hips, belly and rib cage. Typically, instinctive shooters who spend very little time at full draw employ this technique. That's my take on it at least.

[@mortenjacobsen5673]

leaning forward abduct the shoulders shorting the draw , moving your hip does not change your draw length, it can stretch out the back muscles causing loss of back tension but if your anchor is solid , also you can twist your abdominal to adjust for left and right. and or moving foot

[@space.youtube]

Morten Jacobsen cant the bow with an upright stance then try it with hips back.

[@mortenjacobsen5673]

if you look at Taekwondo they fight from a normal standing and walking stance , regardless of the martial art the function of stance is to derive power from the ground and there are more stable stances than the " horse " stance that does not shake as much when lactic acid builds up also in the horse stance you loose the core stability of the lateral abdominals and dorsals and shifting balance to the heels

[@sebastienraymond3648]

Morten Jacobsen > Effectively. As far as I'm concerned, the only times I have to shoot in odd positions is when I'm stomping in the forest and generally in my case, these are really not my best shots.

[@cloudrouju526]

mostly agreed, essentially about the half crouched stance being more robust and higher movement readiness. however i must respectfully disagree that it is less stable. it is more stable comparing to the standing straight stance for the fact that it has a lower center of gravity, therefore the archer is less susceptible to the influence of whatever forces that might act upon him/her during and right after the execution of the shot. this is also the main reason why gun shooters are more prone to adapt to this stance because of the recoil, not because the tendency of shooter wanting to move around right after the shot. having said that, i do agree that the half crouch stance is not the best stance for target archery, not because it's not stable, but because while in this stance, many of your muscle groups are under tremendous stress. this is not only taxing (which is nu sensei's main point), but also diverts valuable energy and focus of the body away from the body parts that are crucial for the shot to others that are completely unnecessary and can be easily avoidable. this in turn of course, will affect the quality of the shot. for the shooters who have supreme physical conditions and accuracy of the shots are not that critical, they might get away with it, but this definitely does not apply to all scenarios. in short, the half crouch stance is less preferred, not because it's less stable, but it is more taxing, and it negatively affects the the execution of the shot.

[@x3roxide]

Also locking your knees is not a good idea either. I like having my knees in a neutral relaxed position. although having said that, some field archery courses actually require you to bend in awkward positions (happens often if the course was designed by compound archers who don't account for longbows or recurves with a relatively larger arc in the shot. Some of these shots can be a fun challenge (until you hit that tree branch placed half way between you and the target which was hovering right at the apex of your shot)

[@mortenjacobsen5673]

well people shoot at stumps too , standing up rather than laying down on there backs with the perfect t form and superior back support . the ultimate stability ad why not drape yourself around a three or branch and shoot upside down like L.A.....

[@ZephrusPrime]

Can you shoot the Scorpion longbow with some of the Gold Tip Trad arrows? I would like to hear how it sounds with a commonly used arrow.

[@broswirski4513]

I think this stance might come from the movies? In movies you often see archers half-crouch (I suppose to make yourself a smaller target for enemy archers?).

[@pharmazak5124]

maybe it's a good stance for hunting, afterall archery does have a pratical purpose. Nice video!

[@NUSensei]

Not a "good" stance in that it is more "suitable", but something you would expect to have to do in hunting.

[@ЛукиСтрелы-ш2и]

👍 I love to shoot aggressively , when in field playing with my English long now ,, bit sure when I tiger shoot ,, ye it sure will get you tired ( nice explanation )

[@gizmonomono]

In martial arts a low stance is used only for practice. To move properly throughout the technique, to learn. In a fight you, don't do it. You do the same thing, but with less movement, just moving through the same principles. In archery it makes zero sense. Unless you're shooting in a low area. And even then crouching on one knee is more stable.

[@gediminasmorkys3589]

4 years late with my comment. I think this discussion confuses two versions of stability. 1: whether you can be moved by external forces. A lower (aggressive? interesting choice of words) stance relying on your muscles will allow you to adapt to the direction of external force, you will be able to keep your ground that way. High stance will get swept away. This stability = won't be moved from position by external force. 2: the extent to which your stance impacts the release of the arrow. The low stance that relies on muscles to keep at a certain height may impact the release more than the usual target practice high stance. This stability = won't move significantly when releasing the arrow after aiming. I totally agree that for long target practice it does not make sense to sit in horse stance. That is, unless you are not simply training for target practice :) Maybe you are training to also ride a horse at the same time? :D

[@NUSensei]

I think the discussion is clear. The lower stance is useful for dynamic situations here you have to brace against external force. There is no external force in target shooting - no one pushing against you, no need for movement, and no recoil. Like with small-caliber and air rifle shooting, the best stance is the one that requires the least effort to maintain. The low stance doesn't impact the "release" of the arrow, but it does mean that you're introducing a variable in every shot that doesn't need to be there.

[@gediminasmorkys3589]

@@NUSensei I took issue with "low stance often gives a false sense of stability". Clearly it is not a false sense of stability, it is a very real sense of stability against external factors, as you yourself argue further, and this is why confusing two different "stabilities" using the same definition is bad for the discussion. The moment you said it was "a false sense of stability", I was distracted by the falsehood of that statement and it impacted my ability to listen to the rest of your well prepared arguments.

[@NUSensei]

@@gediminasmorkys3589 I stand by that statement. I often see new, untrained (and often young) shooters adopt the low stance for no reason other than it feels like they're stable because they're tensing their muscles. It's an "action" pose that they see fictional archers do. This feeling of archery needing to "feel" tense and difficult is a problem with other parts of the shot process. When taught the right posture and alignment, they are surprised that shooting is _easier._ It's supposed to be easier because you're using a more efficient method of loading weight (on bone structure) rather than muscle and soft tissue. This is why I framed it as a "false" sense of stability. In their mind, they think they are being stable by tensing and lowering their centre of gravity, but because there is no need for this, this is "false".

[@gediminasmorkys3589]

@@NUSensei fair enough, I don't think this will bother me more 🙂

[@Boodieman72]

The archery stance looks very similar to a golf stance

[@kmarchery]

is it cold ? a scarf? and fleece ? i know it should be late fall or early winter in oz , but how cold can it really be ? cheers nu

[@NUSensei]

Late fall or early winter? We're in August. It's the middle of winter and I'm filming at night.

[@himanshuwilhelm5534]

I prefer hanging by my legs from a tree branch.

[@fabiozanette5343]

Ooohhhh my thighs

[@sorrow2u]

hold od did you just dry fire O.O'

[@anttoekneeoreo9586]

But imagine the muscle gains

[@reznov3D]

close quarter combat maybe suits this style..quick scope lol

[@HiReeZin]

I don't understand your point in this video. Open stances are as you said, to allow free moving (forward) and to stop and give fire immediately from an acceptable position. In where you're not going to be for long. If you claim the bower should primarily set his stance sidewards to the target, to maximize his performance also in rapid situations eg. in bow hunting you should be more clear. Other videos of you I've enjoyed and you have an enviable skill to stay calm and to the point when discussing hot topics.

[@mortenjacobsen5673]

an open upright stance is stable and allow for abdominal strength and stability to be applied , and he chest can be held down and gluteus maximus can contract to stabilize hips

[@wayne2wax]

lol ( * thighs )

[@garywhites6348]

I can tell you haven't fired a a high power rifle or a 12 gauge shot gun with over shot loads .If you lean back like you did in your Video you would find yourself on your butt you need to lean slightly forward so you can rock back to keep your balance. I'm an American and shoot a lot

[@PooMonkeyMan]

Gary Whites He mentions in the video that he’s talking about air rifles for sport. Shooting any hunting rifle or firearm intended to kill or maim wouldn’t be using that stance due to the kick. Sport rifles on the other hand don’t have that much kick and don’t need the forward pushing stance since they favour stability.