Are 4 Star DPS Characters Pointless? | Honkai: Star Rail

[@zakariamimouni279]

I think the case of Moze is actually a good thing, anyone out there who isn't interested in Topaz can just use him and he works great

[@SirLexion]

Seeing just how goated Moze is makes him very appealing. I don’t own Topaz and I hate her character but he is chad material and just cooler overall

[@scorpx3790]

​@@SirLexion genuenly curious but... why do you hate Topaz?

[@idontknowyoumitch]

@@SirLexionbless this comment. I also don’t like her and never want her to touch my account so feel blessed for Moze.

[@sonnguyen-iv7gv]

well, the problem is Moze e6 can be more expensive than Topaz e0

[@Type_Xorex]

​@SirLexion same bro, I grabbed her LC before she left just for Ratio to use, and now i can maybe put it on Moze instead as a good option for him. Couldn't care less about having the actual character

[@anthony60661]

Redundant question vars... everyone knows 4 stars were never meant to be the star of the show, except xiangling.

[@lillyie]

and bennett

[@vungocanh3712]

And xingqiu ( yes, even after yelan )

[@usmanya5110]

​@@vungocanh3712 and furina.

[@ilikenewmeta9717]

​@@vungocanh3712Tbh he's been powercrept he's not rlly used outside of rational, mono-hydro and bloom. He's still rlly good but has fell off

[@French_Hellmo]

And pela

[@samuelpurezaribeiro8565]

I think its good to have 4* versions because not everyone can afford every 5* and it helps build a healthy variety of play style archetypes

[@sakutaro3musik486]

Bist nost of them are varely useable in endgame

[@sakutaro3musik486]

Bist nost of them are varely useable in endgame

[@Kyoni-Sans]

​@@sakutaro3musik486Not even Herta?

[@yaboytony3028]

@@sakutaro3musik486Most are. Especially people who do challenges where no pulling is allowed, their only 5 star is Ratio and they can do it, if only because of hardcore relic luck and lots of math

[@shai310]

Yep exactly, you don't have enough for Topaz? Get Moze. You don't have enough for Lingsha? Get Gallagher. I'm fine with 4* being a budget version of some 5* units since they're more accessible than a 5*.

[@krxtian6201]

xueyi is sitting crying in the corner 😭

[@Josh-qt5zi]

One the most forgotten characters in star rail

[@thereddragon5554]

As a Xueyi main I can confirm. She is awesome but HEAVILY overshadowed

[@InmateOmighty]

Due to the recent outbreak of COVID-19, the Mara struck will no longer be executed

[@Josh-qt5zi]

@thereddragon5554 also like how Yanqing is like the game Yamcha,Xueyi is basically used as the game Kenny Mccormick from South park

[@Josh-qt5zi]

The fact that Xueyi and Hanya are the last two female four star in the outside of the free hunt March just to show you how heavily overshadowed they are

[@thegray6868]

I respectfully disagree with your points. There’s nothing wrong with having a four star version of a five star.😑😑 and that doesn’t make them useless not everyone has the five star vision.

[@scorpiontdalpha9799]

The thing is that we are talking about DPS 4 star. 4 star only worth invest alot in if you are using support 4 star since any 5 star dps can just outright surpass them regardless of type

[@FrostOblivion]

​@scorpiontdalpha9799 while that is fair. Almost everyone agrees that pulling supports are a priority. So having solid decent 4* dps helps bridge that gap for newer players who are f2p.

[@scorpiontdalpha9799]

@@FrostOblivion As a new player, I understand (I joined this August) but there will always be a "phantom" of sort that scare us from puting too much time and resource into 4 stars. Genshin for example, the skill and hax level of the player can make up for the characters' weaknesses so you can basically take them to end game content with good result. HSR however, the 4 stars don't have such benefits. They can't escape or go around the combat system of HSR which makes them basically just a weaker version of the 5 stars of the same role and can't compete with the contents made with the 5 stars in mind. Therefore it is very hard to justify putting effort into 4 stars For example with my accounts. I have a Gepard as my only 5 stars. Do I spend time making him good? Or split to try upgrading to upgrade the 4 stars? But what if Hoyo release a character that I would like in a near future banner? How should I know which 4 star I should invest in less? These questions bother me alot so that is why I only put real effort into Gepard and March 7 Hunt. I know that they will still be servicable in the later part of the game but I am not so sure about physical MC, Natasha, Dan Heng, Sampoo, Serval, or Arlan.

[@FrostOblivion]

@@scorpiontdalpha9799 personally I don't thing Gepard is a very good investment especially compared to something like hunt March or Moze. They both offer different playstyles if you have them and Gepard is one of the few examples of a charector that is outright power crept by Aventurine. This is just my opinion though. If your having trouble clearing content then Gepard is defiantly solid and will keep your team alive. If I recall he carried a lot of people through the first MoC. I'm saying more so that pulling something like robin is typically better than pulling an acheron for the average player looking to play multiple teams. While Acheron is obviously very strong she kind of forces a certain playstyle. Getting Robin on the other hand opens the door to many options in team building and synergies. Standard banner 5*s are in a very weird state right now imo because they are obviously good, but idk why you would want Bronia when you could have Sparkle or Robin personally. Again, she is obviously good and play with what you have but limited banners are just that much better. I want to clarify this is mainly for newer 4* units. Obviously someone like Hook would need a crazy meta shake up to become relevant. But Gall, March, Moze, Xueyi, QQ, Lynx, Herta, and Guenifen have all proven that they are worth investing in if you grab the 5* limited charector they go with. While there are better teams most of those charectors are quite good on there own and just need the 5* supports to go with them.

[@ArturoGonzalez-st7xj]

Surprisingly Misha is far more comfortable than Jingliu in the Aventurine fight in the current MOC as his skill is always a blast, his ult is 30% cheaper as a aresult he doesnt have awkward timing in when he switches from single target to blast or is out of energy to ult. Additionally since Aventurine is single target all his bounces can vs single boss do more damage than Jingliu's ult.

[@Waifu_Impact_Cunny_Archive]

Aventurine is a boss made to powercreep Jingliu enchanced state through his gamble mechanic . Luckily I have Sushang . I hope I can get E6 Misha with his 4 star LC . It also same with Argenti & his annoying shield buddies

[@Clover2a4688]

I have his lc, I personally really like it. But many say that “fall of an aeon” from the herta lc shop is better for him :]

[@Waifu_Impact_Cunny_Archive]

@@Clover2a4688 it is better because you're using Ruan Mei . She make your character break & delay enemies faster . So FOA LC break damage effect can take advantage .

[@nonamepasserbya6658]

@@Waifu_Impact_Cunny_Archive He isn't. If he was, he would have no Ice weakness whatsoever. Jingliu peaked early but falls hard all because she has too much self buff that Harmony can't work well with her. They tried to nerf Feixiao with that but they "forgot" to make Feixiao base stat weak so oversaturating buff doesn't matter as much

[@violet9530]

@@nonamepasserbya6658 I'd say that Aventurine was made for Acheron and Argenti, since playing Jingliu against him absolutely sucked balls. Also Jingliu's problem isn't that she self-buffs too much, it's really just because Acheron, Feixiao, and Firefly exist now.

[@umusuarioqualquer5491]

Moze being a Topaz 4 star version is not necessarily a bad thing. In the same way that Xingqiu has not stopped being used with Yelan's release. I mean, with Feixiao taking Ratio's spot on IPC FUA Team, instead of Benching him, now we have Moze to be his team partner.

[@slushyslushslushbruh]

Yeah, uhm... that FUA team with Feixiao taking Ratio's spot... yeah... it's now called FART (Feixiao, Aventurine, Robin, and Topaz). Don't shoot the messenger, I just heard it from Guoba.

[@JosepiThe13th]

​@@slushyslushslushbruh From RRAT to FART... how we have evolved as a species...

[@sumedhasolanki]

​@@slushyslushslushbruh😂😂😂 that's soo funny

[@sidvid1208]

i kinda disagree with ur point about moze, while he is steeping in on march's territory with being focused on follow up attacks, march herself isnt really focused on follow up attacks either. she doesnt directly buff anything related to follow up attacks, it just so happens that her stacks are accumulated faster through them. moze directly buffs the follow up attacks through his ascension traces, and e2. his rate of follow ups is also alot higher which means when paired with robin, he can deal insane damagae, much faster than march 8th, which makes him very very viable. and the point about him being a 4 star topaz, yeah, he is. and hes the ONLY 4 star topaz, he also applies two debuffs, both at e0, which is more than what topaz provides at e0, which means he is more cost efficient and easier to use than topaz, since for an ideal topaz, you need to invest heavily into her with e1s1. also he is very cool and i love him

[@nat-cj8be]

couldn’t agree more! he’s also a different element making him more useful for enemies with that weakness. i have topaz but she’s e0s0 so i’m still hoping i pull a few copies of him because i like his design/animations, his debuffs are more useful for my ratio team and it’s simply nice to have other options it adds variety imo

[@SmashTheAdam]

Since I'm gonna pull Robin, if I get him to, let's say E2 or E3 (don't wanna get my hopes up too much, although E6 would be nice), is it worth it to skip Topaz?, because I wanna save for Rappa, and keep in mind I'm skipping Feixao so I'm gonna be using a Ratio team so those 2 debuffs look juicy, and I have S1 Aventurine so he deals a debuff with his FuA, so that's already 100% guarantee on Ratio's FuA. Just wanna know the best way to spend my pulls since I'm F2P and only have enough pulls to 100% guarantee one character and that's gonna be Robin. My two other teams are Acheron/Pela/Guinaifen/Aventurine Firefly/HMC/Ruan Mei/Gallagher

[@sidvid1208]

@@SmashTheAdam it is definitely worth it to skip topaz if I get him e2, especially since you need to invest alot into topaz for her to viable on ratio teams

[@SmashTheAdam]

@@sidvid1208 yeah that "you need to get her E1 or S1" stuff I'm seeing everywhere is what really discouraged me, but then again I saw some people saying she worked fine at E0S0 with Ratio and clearing MoC 12, thanks for the reply by the way. I think I'm gonna try out Moze first and see how good the team is with him and Robin, not like Robin and Topaz are gonna be in the same phase, I'm gonna have a whole 20 days until Topaz's banner and another 20 until it ends, but I'm leaning towards skipping her right now, especially if Rappa turns out good and if she needs her weapon cause her only other option as far as i know is a 4 star that i have at just S1 (break is easily my favorite playstyle so far so I'm excited for her)

[@Laktystyk]

​@@SmashTheAdam E0S0 Topaz provides only 1 debuff that isn't enough for Ratio :(

[@duz3944]

and then there is xiangling ... oh shoot wrong game

[@IshimurA99]

Moze is both Hunt's first lightning character and a very strong character, which makes me want to pull him even more

[@wongo6828]

I kinda feel like Moze is being treated unfairly here... he was referred to as 4* Topaz and Topaz wasn't included in the Top 10 Best Characters. (yet he included Kafka and BS despite DoT being irrelevant but let's not go there..) Topaz is fantastic and having a 4* Topaz which is Moze is fantastic as well.

[@jeffulloa218]

He's not really a DPS tho, he can be played as such but he's like Hunt March 7th, Topaz and Jade, they're more sub-dps than anything else.

[@jerryeljeremy7790]

@@jeffulloa218 That's the point of sub-DPS

[@MACA_Zeon]

@@jeffulloa218hunt March is awesome

[@leylintempest1714]

​@jeffulloa218 he is more dps than a support while topaz and march are more support than dps. This gets further proven by feixiao investment calcs.

[@CinaraO-O]

Qingque was my first main, and she still is. The numbers she hits with a mono quantum team is insane 😮‍💨😮‍💨

[@mugipyon723]

Same here, she's still thriving in my interplanet miniqua (mini mono quantum from different planets) team Silver Wolf - Lynx - Qingque - Sparkle

[@JTH_X]

I think you're fundamentally missing the point of low rarity units in gacha games. They're not meant to stack up to the SSRs, they're meant to be budget options. Obviously, there are exceptions who are worth using over SSRs, but that was never supposed to be the standard. "Why would someone use Moze over Topaz?" Because they don't have Topaz. So, while I don't think any future 4 star DPS will probably never be "worth it" compared to modern 5 stars, I don't think they're pointless, because they exist to benefit those who don't have access to said 5 stars.

[@sakutaro3musik486]

But if the 4 Star Version can't clear endgame then it's not an Option but Ressource waste. Do you have a f2p Account? With the little reccources the game gives you Investing into 4 stars is a huge waste

[@MiIkywayCookie]

​​@@sakutaro3musik486there's a lot of 4 stars who are quite useful on their own team and gamemode such as Herta, Tingyun, Moze, March 8th, Pela, Gallagher and many more. Also you're forgetting the fact that upgrading 4 stars are cheaper than 5 stars so resources shouldn't be that much of a problem. Also not everything is abt zero cycling, you get same rewards as long as you reach the requirements so I don't see your point with the "can't clear endgames"

[@eclipse5708]

This. I'm still using Misha because I don't have Jingliu (really I don't want her, I don't like her kit, but there's also other 5* chars I want/need more). I don't plan on keeping Misha forever but the Ice DPS I actually do want doesn't currently exist so I'm sticking with Misha for now as my Ice DPS.

[@weregretohio7728]

And if you're building Moze, you might as well get Topaz.

[@anwarshadaad1553]

This is the same reason why I want a 4* budget aventurine, because I don't have him and don't want to pull him

[@issackoff8529]

I disagreed. You can have 4 star DPS; there are things called hyper carries, and you can also use them as sub-DPS on teams. I even did a few game modes where I hyper-carried my Sampo just for the fun of it. Not everything has to relate to meta. People can simply enjoy different characters and playstyles since it is a game. The game just needs to balance for these types of characters. We need more 4 stars to help balance out the 5 stars because we have so many of 5 stars and when you pull your are going to get so many copies of 4 stars it gets very wasteful at times.

[@elijahjarobi]

Just because you don't care about meta doesn't mean the 4 stars aren't pointless

[@issackoff8529]

@@elijahjarobi Not everyone has every 5 stars; players can use the 4 stars as replacements for those 5 stars they lack or simply aren't interested in pulling. For example, I don't have Black Swan, so I use Sampo or Luca on my DOT team. Likewise, I plan on using Moze on my follow-up team with my Robin and Aventurine. Pointless would mean they can't be used at all, and not to mention, it makes it an utter waste of time to get extra copies of them, which isn't the case for me or other players. Again, Moze can act as a four-star Topaz for those who don't have her.

[@windradyne8724]

@@elijahjarobi Just because you care about meta doesn't mean the 4 stars are pointless. META is subjective. As in, you; the subject, have different tools available to you, than I have tools available to me. Therefore, our respective meta is different. It is folly to rely on tier lists of resources that you don't have.

[@jinlin9914]

It doesn’t matter if they are 4 star or 5 star. I always use my favourite 4 star characters such as herta and misha da most. Main whoever you like.

[@violet9530]

I used superbreak Misha and holy, he's insane as superbreak. His ult his HARD against a single enemy. Just pair him up with Sushang if dual-dps, HMC, Ruan Mei, and Gallagher, and he does pretty good.

[@Spoderfok]

The problem is resources required to build a character discourages players from building sub optimal and objectively inferior characters

[@Rob.N.]

Resource management is the real grind in HSR 😔

[@lewsee5562]

Veteran players are swimming from resources already. It's very easy to pre-farm only the traces and stagnant shadows because you have so much credits and exp mats hoarded already. The true grind is on the relics.

[@chelo136]

Thats not an issue for 1 day playr, i literally farm relics for months because i dont have anything else to do with my energy , when i know i want a char i prefarm traces and asencion mats and thats it, coin, level up mats etc i have so many that they are useless, after sometime you can build wathever you want unless you pulll evry single char

[@pach-nii3627]

Even then such grind can turn boring and burn you out and imo some places are an absolute chore to farm. Getting relics sucks too and building a character can feel good, but the time needed to do so and the layers of RNG to get mats and equipment present in games like HSR will impact your experience

[@chelo136]

@@pach-nii3627 no idea about that, i log in spend my energy in 5 minutes on auto and move on with my day, 1 or 2 weeks later i check what relics i have and see if they good for my chars if not move on, how can you get burn out if the game is literally on auto for farming and takes 5 mins lol

[@Hououin818]

I feel bad for Misha, his v1 kit was insanely good as a sub dps because he has ice res pen in his kit and his e1 let him give that to the entire team

[@retroliar]

Not true, no one else can do a qingillion damage

[@lillyie]

it's not that they're pointless, it's just that they're hellbent on making the new 5 stars strictly better versions of current characters instead of making unique kits once you get aventurine, you're never gonna use gepard again. shield is attached to skill rather than ultimate and it provides effect res, something gepard doesn't have. he also has a follow up attack on top of that you like counterattacking? we've got yunli, a strictly better version of clara that has a built in heal with her skill and an ultimate that can hold 2 charges and it hits everyone instead of just the foes surrounding the main target. even her normal counterattack is a blast attack guinaifen has a talent that applies a debuff which makes enemies take more damage. jiaoqiu has the same thing ON TOP OF having an ultimate that increases ultimate damage enemies take, making him synergize with acheron pretty well

[@Gottaloveaxolotls]

I agree with what you’re saying but Jiaoqiu is the best battery and support for Acheron as of rn in HSR, so pretty good is an understatement here imo

[@sammysaito529]

“You pulled Luocha? That means you never gonna use Gallagher agai- wait what do you mean Gallagher is such an overpowered 4* he powercrept Luocha to high heaven?”

[@Gravijahz]

i'm not sure limited 5 stars always having strictly unique kits would be better. it would mean instead of having 4 star alternatives, 5 star units would be doing things that can't be replicated with the easier to obtain units. that's already an issue NOW and it would be worse in that case.

[@akken_0]

​@@sammysaito529wait until bro hears about Lingsha

[@leylintempest1714]

​@@sammysaito529 in terms of actually suataining gallegher is still far behind luocha, its just that most content doesn't need that much sustain potential (well except for hoolay who will absolutely shred gallegher next patch to sell lingsha stocks)

[@Egalia_1]

It would make way more sense for 5 stars to be the exception, not the rule, but the problem is 5 stars vastly outnumber 4 stars to a ridiculous degree. I really love Moze, I want to build Moze, I know that if I just pull an E0 Topaz it will completely invalidate a fully built E6 Moze and that hurts Adding onto this, because of the way the game works the only way for most 4 stars to compete is at E6 and E6 on 4 stars often is *harder* to get than an E0 5 star. Adding to the disparity more

[@killergangxd8178]

True but Topaz is a 5 star you need to save pulls for and spikes with her light cone. If you don't have Robin or want to pull for Feixiao and don't have Topaz, you can have characters more important for FUA while at the same time having a budget Topaz.

[@sammysaito529]

Wait until you find out E6 Moze is actually STRONGER than E0 Topaz in all of her best team

[@seunabe4612]

Yeah buddy E6 Moze is 100% better than e0s0 Topaz if that makes you feel any better

[@lillyie]

@@sammysaito529 this is like saying e6 lynx is better than e0 luocha

[@TerraTheWise]

@@sammysaito529Ye let’s not go around spread misinfo just because you wanna glaze your husbando. He’s worse than topaz regardless of eidolons. He’s a nice substitute for the topaz less but that’s it.

[@hansudibedcruz1119]

They lack 4 star characters

[@illmentaly]

Yeah, I never liked how they made everyone and anyone a 5 star imo.

[@hansudibedcruz1119]

​@@illmentaly Yeah, I'm just ok for a 4 star character to be a down grade of a 5 star. Just give me a 4 star version of Robin so I can pull for Feixiao (but with Robin having the next banner I'll definetly pull for her). The only one worth mentioning and building are Gallagher, Pela, and Tingyun in my opinion. Like the power 3 of Genshin.

[@illmentaly]

@hansudibedcruz1119 The rewards in hsr are good. Don't get me wrong, but it's just not enough for the amount of 5 stars they make. I'm probably the only person who's happy about rappa being the only 5 star we're getting.

[@mediumsurmoon6283]

We need Preservation characters specifically 4 stars, but for some damn reason they keep on releasing the same set of DPS path as if we aren’t diluted with too many DPS already. It’s even worse now that they decided to push back Aventurine’s rerun even further back, now we are all hard stuck with Abundance characters in end game content where everything one shot you, especially SU where I can’t even clear past Conundrum 4 because of how much damage they does regardless of how crazy of a high my team does, there’s no point if they died all within the first turn.

[@Gravijahz]

the more 4 star characters that exist, the harder it'll be to get them at E6, which is a big part of what makes them so good. less but stronger isn't a bad thing. even after all my time playing my Tingyun is nowhere near E6 for example, and that's with what we have now. or my Pela, etc.

[@valkyrieregalia]

Moze is great. At E6 he actually does more damage than an E0 Topaz while also buffing ally's damage just like her. He's a great option that does Topaz's role who is a bonus for pulling on Feixiao.

[@cloveangel]

haven’t watched all of it, but i can say that for 4*, supports like tingyun, pela and gallagher are top tier and right under them are sub-dps’s like march and moze are going to be SUPER helpful for the upcoming content (i think)

[@sammysaito529]

Pela is already powercrept by Jiaoqiu But Tingyun and Gallagher remain undefeated

[@elijahjarobi]

​@@sammysaito529 Tingyun is losing value as more and more dps characters are releasing without energy mechanics

[@wongo6828]

​@@elijahjarobiTingyun is being hard carried by Yunli and Argenti in the meta so she's not losing value. As long as those two stay on top, she won't fall off.

[@WierdEnuf4Ya]

The only problem I see with 4* dps are the reliance on e6 and the fact that they're harder to get than 5*s sometimes. Having more flexibility for your account is never a bad thing, and sometimes the 4*s are just more likeable than the 5*s that fill the same role. I think so long as they can still clear difficult content, even if it's a bit more difficult and requires more investment than 5*s, they have their place.

[@UltimatePollo3495]

Harder to get wtf u on most of the time we have 4 star selector events it rlly not that hard

[@Shining_Light]

I'm glad that so many people disagree with the video. Overpowered/broken kits of premium characters definitely help, but thankfully the game is well-balanced and people clear MoC even with full 4 star teams. For some people it's even more fun that way - because you have to think about your team comps and gear a bit more.

[@BestgirlJordanfish]

I mean, they can start by making them not overlap with a 5-star counterpart so clearly. Mix up their scaling, synergies, and elements helps a bit since we still need to make two teams I'd also be fine with character exclusive light cone gacha as a way to revamp old characters and giving us a way to invest in these fan favorites. Like a physical TB or wind dan heng exclusive LC if you really like the idea of the playstyle, but it just needs a boost I think adding a bonus achievement that requires at least 3 four-star could be fun. Like gain 200 extra jades if you can beat that special challenge or something Lastly, I think making them have extreme synergies with specific 5-star characters could be interesting. Like if there was a four star harmony that dealt damage and added aggro to a character but in exchange boosted that character's speed and damage? Solid, but boosts the hell out of Blade. Or a character that gives action forward to summons? On their own not amazing, but huge for JY and Topaz

[@shadowjoker285]

Thing is currently hsr has less 4* than 5*. Currently, Honkai Star Rail needs 4* preservation characters since the preservation path has less characters than any other path and with March 7th being a Hunt and preservation character. Their is no actual proper 4* preservation hunts since both Trailblazer and March 7th can now change paths so it leaves the preservation path with only 5* with two of them being Limited 5* and one being on the standered Banner. And as someone with not a single 5* preservation character and March 7th and Trailblazer being currently Harmony and Hunt having 4* preservation hunts added into the game at this point would be really good!!

[@eclipse5708]

That's more a problem with the Preservation path than 4*s really, the 4*s are just a symptom of the larger problem with Preservation. Even in terms of 5*s, 2 Limiteds is still lower than any other path, the other 6 all have at least 3 (or at least Abundance will have 3 by the time Lingsha's banner drops). Preservation is lacking all around, not just in terms of 4*s, any kind of new Preservation character would be a benefit to the roster balance (aside from maybe another freebie).

[@shadowjoker285]

@eclipse5708 Oh most definitely, however by giving us 4* preservation units instead of 5*. It means they can save the big 5* units for the right time while the 4* bulk the roster of the preservation path along with giving thos with no preservation units (like my self) some sort of out with the path because at the current time in hsr trailblazer and March 7th is too underpowered to deal with how strong enemies are nowadays. Characters like adventurine and Fu Xuain are currently the best options in the path, and if ya don't them we'll sucks to be you (mainly Sucks to be me). Especially since the current meta revolves around Preservation units and with Abundance units, even Luocha, HuoHuo, Bailu and Lingsha are still not good enough to keep up because every enemies does soo much damage. Like I'm as casual as they come but with no preservation units in the game being introduced from Fu xian to Adventurine and adventurine to (insert new character name) it's not good enough

[@Aririi24]

I kinda hope they will release sth like 4* Fu Xuan one day, if they decide to expand the Preservation roster. I don't have FX (Aventurine was my pick) but recently started alt acc as f2p out of curiosity. While most battles weren't hard early game, the jump in difficulty with Aventurine boss in TQ felt quite big (I didn't notice this with main acc cause my charas were alr built anw), even though I ran both Lynx and Gepard as sustain with somewhat decent relics (still at TL

[@shadowjoker285]

@Aririi24 oh definitely

[@eherden2169]

There are not many 4 Stars in HSR and we cant expect them to deal the same damage of a 5 star, so to have lasting relevance they need to offer utility for the team (this is why we use Tingyun, Gallagher and Hunt March 7 on teams). There are 4 stars that have unique combat mechanics that makes them stand out in certain modes or with certain mode buffs like Herta or now Moze.

[@Josh-qt5zi]

Here an fact there hadn't been any 4 star waifu in 2.x outside the free hunt March,the last one was Xueyi

[@MiIkywayCookie]

​@@Josh-qt5ziWatch out til you found out that there's more 5* waifu than 5* husbando. It's totally fair to balance stuff out.

[@highwaytoheaven99]

Idea: make a 4 star support that does to DOT what HMC did to break. Its no secret that DOTs have not been very hot lately, so I would like to see a new support unit that gives it a new life. Not a Jiaoqiu "a little dot and a little debuff" kind of character, but one that elevates DOTs to a new high. And make it a 4 star. In other words: I want a Chevreuse in Honkai Star Rail.

[@wongo6828]

I want a 4 star Kafka to be honest. Kafka is pretty much a must have if you want to invest in a DoT team but what if you can't afford to get Kafka... Solution: a 4* who is just like Kafka, just a tad weaker.

[@nat-cj8be]

another idea: make multiple 4 stars like this. that way people have variety of options to choose from when constructing their teams and aren’t built with the “you need x character” mindset

[@tophrii]

I want Furina in Honkai Star Rail 😭

[@Hououin818]

Moze just feel like a better Topaz in term of investment require because he has all the debuffs Topaz has at e0, especially for Ratio team where you need at least e0s1 Topaz for him to even be consistent

[@dom4257]

i dont disagree with moze and ratio, but its way more easier to get an e0s0 5* than an e6 4*

[@Hououin818]

​@@dom4257 Moze only need e2, e0 at bare minimum. Topaz either need S1 or E1 to be on his same level if we're talking buffing capability wise

[@dom4257]

well yeah e6 moze provides more debuffs but if we are talking the actual total team damage then topaz easily clears him

[@Mimic_656]

@@dom4257umm no? Beacuse Topaz without E1 or S1 she literally deal noodle damage lol

[@anthonyye8629]

For genshin, the strong 4* are either support or off-field dps and for Star Rail they have to be either support DPS like Moze or March 8th or support. Herta doesn't really count because she's only good in one game mode.

[@SyrFlora]

Even on genshin after 2.0 patch most 4 star just forgettable and pale in comparison. Notable 4* is kuki shinobu which excel in her niche of hyperbloom trigger. Faruzan as support for anemo hypercarry. Thoma burgeon trigger. Cheveurve on overload. Lastly, Gorou as geo buffer. Others niche buffer like kujou sara just not worth building unless u e2 raiden. Xiangling, bennet, xinque is the exception of really gud 4*.. Also sucrose in f2p taser team. And all of those strong 4* is from 1.x patch😅 .. which already more than 3 year of game release.

[@SyrFlora]

But hey at least herta, tingyun, pela, march 7th hunt is gud.. at their role.. Asta a bit sed because harmony power creep just too stonk

[@darkwolf9637]

In arknights the 4 stars basically just make you use your brain. You can clear every stage in the game with only 4 stars and there's multiple youtube channels about exactly that you just need specific strategies, while most 5 and 6 stars can just brute force any non gimmick based stage.

[@shutup1037]

I have bunch of 6* yet still slot in 4* (other than Myrtle) because they have their niche as fast deploy, support or stalling

[@darkwolf9637]

@shutup1037 i still use meteor but that's mostly just because i like her as a character

[@matiasrivas1692]

I feel like the arguments miss one very important detail: character availability. You keep talking about how 4* main DPS can't compete due to an abundance of competition from 5*s. But then what if these superior options are just not available for an extended period of time, to say nothing about whether or not a player can afford to pull for them. What does it matter for a player that Topaz is overall better than Moze if they get him first but she's not expected to be on banner for a while? The logical action would be to build Moze and most likely ignore Topaz because she won't be providing something that your account doesn't already have, even if it is lesser. In gacha games, the player should be prepared to have to settle for "lesser" alternatives due to budget constraints or availability. As such, 4*s that are lesser versions of 5*s are a perfectly reasonable thing to exist in the game, so that there is a more budget friendly alternative to alleviate the need for the 5*s that Hoyo may refuse to rerun for extended periods of time. Really the real problem with 4*s isn't the often unfair comparisons to 5*s, but the fact that most of them need some number of eidolons to fully flesh out their playstyle. Moze is lucky for only really needing E2. Besides, comparing Moze to Topaz is a bad example for your argument because the former is the only alternative for the latter. Hunt March doesn't compete because she doesn't buff follow-up attack damage like either of them do. Not exactly a variety of choices.

[@ChainsSSB]

I agree with your points but just saying Topaz is already confirmed to rerun in the 2nd half of 2.5 with Lingsha lol

[@matiasrivas1692]

@@ChainsSSB That is true admittedly, although this brings up the question of affordability. Three of the 5*s coming up are for the follow-up attack archetype. And Topaz is running very close to Robin and Feixiao. There simply is not enough time between banner runs to save enough to pull Topaz should you pull for someone in the first halve (unless you've been saving for multiple months which seems unlikely). Most players will have to choose to skip someone they wanted. At that point Moze is somewhat of a consolation prize. Since he's on banner for the first halve, pulling any character then will give you a decent chance of pulling him too.

[@edgarahcow7748]

​​@@matiasrivas1692 But then you are missing another crucial point. Even when 3 characters that work on a specific playstyle are going to run close together, you assume people won't have enough for all of them. But most likely, people Will already have 1 or 2 of them and can just safely aim for the character they lack for that playstyle. Of course, your point becomes 100% valid If we talk about new players, in which case the best option often is checking for advice on friends who play, check online recomendations, or the easiest route in my opinion, aim for the supports first

[@matiasrivas1692]

@@edgarahcow7748 Sure, it is true that some long time players may have been able to get some of the best characters for certain archetypes. But not all of them. And that's because HSR is not a gacha game where you stand a chance at getting even most of the 5*s or even having certain archetypes. So there is simply a lot of variance in terms of what characters players have. If we assume the worst case scenario, a player who lacks both Robin and Topaz, then this patch isn't the worst. Moze being on banner helps alleviate the need for Topaz. It also helps that Feixiao doesn't need her signature too badly. If you've been saving long enough and didn't have a follow-up team, then it's possible to build a functional one. In a gacha like this, it's useful to consider the worst case scenario going into a new patch to then highlight your advantages over that and determining if it's worth your jades from there.

[@joyboy_3165]

How are Xueyi and Herta completely missing from this conversation? Like you mentioned how Erudition TB would work yet didn't think mentioning one of the best PF damage dealer in the game being a 4 star?

[@cruiser332]

In HSR most 4* are "replacement" units for if you dont have specific 5* in my opinion. To allow team making without needing all 5* to work but wanting 5* to work at its best.

[@braken63]

They ain't pontless,not everyone sh*ts money. God,this is so redundant.

[@TheJH1015]

meanwhile Xueyi got a good glow-up when Superbreak arrived because of her weakness-ingoring Ult and FUAs after activating her E2. She's become basically a VERY budget Firefly in that sense. She's also easier to build because she can use both Break Effect and Crit stats. I generally consider Xueyi the Fischl of HSR. Always does decently to really good in multiple roles (Mono Quantum hypercarry DPS, Superbreak DPS, subDPS if you have a spare slot). I think there's a very good use for 4 star DPS units, it's just that in HSR Hoyo hasn't been as creative as in Genshin imo. In Genshin we got Gaming to introduce the revitalised Plunging attacks with Xianyun, and now we have Kachina. Kachina IS a DPS, she doesn't do buffing from her own kit, but she can use the new Natlan support artifact set to give massive buffs. I think HSR needs to do something like that too. With Misha they SHOULD have given him a trace or Eidolon that decreases either Defense or give All-Type RES PEN bonus received on every enemy that got frozen by him, so the entire team would do more damage against him. Or make him put the Dissociation effect from the Simulated Universe on Frozen enemies. It would have given him something niche but special to work with. For Moze, they should have given his FUAs an extra effect, for example restoring 2 Energy for the *entire team* each time his FUA hits an enemy, instead of only himself that his E1 gives now. Either that or make it restore 1 SP. It wouldn't make him overpowered, but it does give him an additional use, for example as you said as Topaz replacement when you need Lightning coverage, but THEN you could also use him to battery Ratio a bit more to get off more Ratio ults, or lighten the SP load a little bit. There's enough ways to make 4 star DPS units interesting through additional mechanics or usability, but imo HSR just refuses to do it.

[@jinkwon8410]

I’ve been using Misha for his story reasons… but I’m pretty sure he’ll be replaced once my Jingliu is fully built

[@therranolleo468]

the recent event made me think of a gimmick they haven't used, Sampo's trash friend summoned a copy of itself on the enemy field, would be a cool gimmick if they turned that into an actual character kit, someone who can plant a mole on the enemy team to either sabotage them or buff us

[@themidnightotaku22]

Harmony Trailblazer? A 4-star? When you actually think about it though… that super break damage is actually a lot stronger than most people give it credit for. Tanky enemies don’t even stand a chance against this guy in the best of scenarios.

[@curefestive1774]

Moze literally is a stronger version of Topaz. She's the 4* compared to him. It's the Gaming/Diluc situation all over again. Lol

[@asdf2103912pi]

Moze actually isn't always worse than Topaz, specifically for Dr. Ratio teams. Moze provides 2 debuffs, but Topaz provides only 1 at E0S0. This makes the Ratio-Moze-Robin-Aventurine team WAY more consistent than the Ratio-Topaz-Robin-Aventurine team if all 5 stars are at E0S0. With the latter you'd either have to pull E1 or S1 Topaz for it to pull ahead of the Moze variant.

[@ignacioperez5479]

I think they should make 4 star DPS have less damage but some type of utility to make them a choice, thing that genshin does. As you talked about misha, him being able to freeze is a good defensive utility for the team. Going in that way could help duo DPS teams while making them feel more unique

[@ostodvandlll]

I'm going to guess I'm not saying anything new in this comment section, but not everyone wants, likes, or has Topaz or Jingliu. Moze and Misha do their job fine and they're budget options for these cases. 4* DPS aren't worthless, because not everyone is going to pull for the shiny brand new 5*DPS but those people still need SOME type of coverage for those roles. If anything we should have MORE 4* DPS that are "budget [5* unit]", but that would stop people from feeling forced to pull for Powercreep Character 5000 and thus spending, I suppose.

[@lumzalum8863]

I think something that might help with 4* units and even varying team builds is to: 1. Add different conditional buffs/ effects 2. Add more gameplay mechanics to enemies and playable units. Taking reference from gatcha game other turn based games, FGO, there's a lot of different buff types e.g doing more damage to humanoids, beast and for a hsr examples extra damage to enemies following a certain path like Abundance or a non playable path like The Enigmatas or meme enemies can help carve out niches. An advantage hsr has over fgo is that it has QTE action ults that can interrupt the enemies turns. Adding some other QTE mechanics can make the game more engaging and add some mechanical skills. Also, this will be a nightmare to balance but units only having 1 skill and 1 ult is very constraining. Add a second or third to add a bit more spice and decion making to the gameplay.

[@UltimatePollo3495]

I was thinking they can make a new archetype where the person scales off how many fields are on e.g luocha field jiaoqui field something like that

[@GentleIceZ]

I mean, kinda? There's two ways to look at this, and that's is this a design problem or a player problem? For design problem, there's not a lot we can do. If we could have, Dehya wouldn't have launched with one of the most botched kits in existence. But we can change thing from a player's perspective, because a lot of the time these issues aren't really that big, but the way we look at them make it much worse than it needs to be. I'm going to make a bold statement here and say that meta... Is *fun.* In general optimizing is a big part of the game and even the most casual of us all love it to some degree, since making big number bigger is fun. But it does become an issue when people start acting like 0 clears are all that matter. I agree that as damage dealers, a 4 star isn't going to be as good as a 5 star in raw damage. Obviously Mihoyo has all the incentive to never let that happen. But they can still have synergys that contribute to the overall DPS, the same way Aventurine's follow ups aren't the main DPS of a team, but the bonus. I used my Sushang and Misha on floor 12 this and last cycle, and cleared. Not in 0 cycles, but they did get the job done. They're good units And sure, Moze is less powerful Topaz, but there's no rule saying you can't run one on each side of end game, or both on the same side. We had this discussion when everyone was wondering if Xingqiu or Yelan was better, and it turns out both were good The problem with meta is it's king of the hill; only ever one on top but it's always in flux and often redundant. Who cares what's meta if you can get all the jade you need? Honestly people like Zmn and Lisara prove meta units aren't nearly as important as game knowledge is

[@semconteudo391]

At least moze can substitute Topaz e0s0 in a Ratio team

[@IdentityChrist]

I don't agree that we shouldn't have 4* attackers. Having them be weaker versions of already existing/future 5* is a good idea for those that are missing one character to form a team or are completely new to the game. Like how March 8th can replace Firefly if you don't have her or imagine how great Moze could be if you were just starting off. Of course, a free 5* like Ratio helps in both scenarios but unfortunately we can't simply expect the repeat gift.

[@polarroars68]

honestly if we had a 4* unit like blade jing yuan or fu xuan that’d brong a lot of value to them hp exchange for power could poetentially give a higher power budget than qingque’s inconsistency for power because you run the risk of getting 1 shot. a bounce follow up attack could do amazing dmg against a single target or decent dmg against a group even if its an inconsistency for power thing

[@lexkent6789]

1:38 This is off topic, but can anyone explain HOW IN THE WORLD HE'S GETTING THOSE DAMAGE NUMBERS IN MOC??!! Aventurine fu doing 100k is INSANE

[@malakaman9468]

Xueyi better than most DPS actually

[@TurtonatorGuy]

Something to note is that they are probably meant to be more useable in the early/mid game. Despite having a lot of 5 star damage dealers now, I got to the end game basically using only Xeuyi as far as damage dealers go (who I'm surprised wasn't mentioned). I guess, part of the "fun" or "challenge" can be the aspect of trying to build teams with limited options and resources, but since most people are at the end game now it's not something we think of as much. Even so, having characters that you like that are still useable, even if not the best option, means that you can still use your favorites, whereas if a character is super niche or useless then you can't, so it makes sense that they try not to go that route.

[@pkjose1343]

Im still watching the video but I like seeing the difference between how 4 stars play compared to 5 stars. I really like Hanya so I built Xueyi recently so they can team up. I was actually pleasantly surprised but her damage! Its...nothing huge, which I expected but it made me glad I did it lol. Now during non-serious combat I can use both sisters just cause.

[@mauriciorosademoraes9209]

Just here to say my opinion. Moze E6 > Topaz E0S1 Debuff is worse, but he does like with Robin 80k ~ 130k damage every attack considered follow-up and this carry a lot more than Topaz better debuff with her 50k follow-up. The follow-up generation is the same and because of AV, sometimes better or worse, same for Topaz so the performance is for Feixiao is same thing, it's just that Moze deals half of Feixiao Damage contrary of Topaz that buffs Feixiao to insane damage and deals lower damage. For Ratio Moze wins with no doubt, doesn't need to spend 240 pulls to make the team work like Topaz and is a good sidegrade to Jiaoqiu that's better than Topaz in actual Ratios teams, becoming the new BiS that also works at E0S0 (Jiaqoiu is also pretty versatile and a OP duo with Robin so yeah). I'm going to use Moze with Ratio's LC with my Topaz E0S0 hehehe.

[@pix1943]

So would it be Moze>Topaz for ratio teams? I have s1 Topaz but no Aventurine so I’m gambling on 80% for follow up 😭 does Moze have more debuffs than e0s1 Topaz?

[@Waifu_Impact_Cunny_Archive]

So for short : > E0S0 / S1 Topaz is better for Feixiao than E6 Moze . But you still might want to bring Moze E6 on enemy with lightning weakness for his personal damage . > E2 to E6 Moze for Ratio . Better than E0S1 Topaz . I wish Ratio & Moze ult count as follow up like Fei . Also it is just me or does Fei LC is watered down version of Ratio LC ? Every Hunt character can still use Ratio LC unlike Fei one .

[@mauriciorosademoraes9209]

@@pix1943 Yes. 2 debuffs in one skill

[@mauriciorosademoraes9209]

@@Waifu_Impact_Cunny_Archive Moze ultimate counts as follow-up.

[@vertexzorg3004]

Not sure why Moze is included in this video when he is actually good. You called him a “mini Topaz” but that is a good thing. Sure Topaz is always better than Moze even at E6 in Feixiao teams, but even so he is not that far behind in team DPS. This gives people less incentive to pull for Topaz specifically for Feixiao. Also Moze is more supportive than you suggest. At E2, he gives 40% bonus CRIT DMG and 25% increase to FuA damage for all allies. Not to mention, the Prey mark and the bonus FuA damage both count as debuffs, meaning that he works very well with Dr. Ratio. So even if you have Topaz or March 7th with Feixiao, you can still have two good FuA teams on both sides in MoC. There are videos with Moze replacing Topaz in Feixiao teams and he can just 0-1 cycle just fine.

[@wongo6828]

Vars considers Topaz to be niche in his Ranking video and she wasn't included in his Top 10 Best Characters (despite including Kafka and Black Swan on the same spot when DOT is not doing so well right now. If he included Kafka who is an enabler for a specific playstyle (DOT) then by that logic, Topaz should've been included because she's an enabler for a specific playstyle (FUA).. It's just that that specific playstyle (FUA) is receiving more attention right now so Topaz really should've been included.. enough ranting). If he considers Topaz to be niche then by extension Moze is niche as well. I feel like Moze was judged rather unfairly here and I agree with everything you said.

[@kr555wizard]

Moze has the unique mechanic of departed status too in addition to his support, which i believe has applications that are hella interesting. In a team with a unit like yunli or clara, it makes it where they are way more likely to be hit since moze is no longer a viable target, making counter attackers more consistent. It also makes it where you might be able to get away with using different sustains who might not be able to keep everyone alive if they have to spread their protection across many allies, such as weaker healers like lynx or natasha or weaker preservations like march 7th's og form.

[@baron-chan6484]

Herta clutching her Pure Fiction Queen throphy But lately Hoyo have been cooking some good *4 unit, Genshin with decent support with Charlotte, Chevreuse, YaoYao, DPS with Sethos and Gaming, (yes Shinobu is at the end of Inazuma update but her popularity has increased significantly with Dendro) HSR with March 8th, Moze, Gallagher My problem with *4 is, most of them need high constellation, Gallagher is good if you just want break debuff, but he's great at E2 bacuse it can keep your team survive longer, Yukong have strict rotation but somewhat remedied with E6, Noel is gacha heal without her C1 that makes it 100% per-swing makes her and insane healer, Bennett is great but without his C1 his performance is lacking a bit Genshin specially have a lot of this problem with character like Gorou, Sara, and Faruzan. Character that specialized at buffing certain element, Faruzan is not usable (or very hard to use) until C2 because energy issue, Gorou and Sara without Constellations is mostly battery,

[@Twin227]

I thought of a sort of niche support that uses the health of the enemy and one ally then transfer that to another ally, and if the health still kills an enemy and the healed ally had max health then the healing will be converted into over-heal that becomes a secondary health bar called virtual health and will cap at a specific amount like 7% of the healed allies maximum health the virtual health will last until all of it is depleted and the support can only give virtual health back if there is no more such as if the ally lost a bit of the over-heal but still has some left the support cannot refresh it. And the ultimate heal works by drain all of the enemies health and gives it to all allies and if they are maximum heal the will have virtual heal. With the specific niche of virtual health I think that it can help keep parties living a bit and can synergies with both jingliu and blade. Since jingliu would be using the virtual health of the teammate rather then their actual health and blade can sacrifice the virtual health to stay longer in a battle and since blade can also heal himself the support can use him as a health battery for other teammate and that won’t be much of a worry since blade is taken damage from the suppport thus can quickly activate his follow-up heal (sorry for the very long explanation)

[@OneiricYT]

Short answer: yes Long answer: yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesssssssssssss

[@bangtanssera]

in Kenshin impact you can get away with using 4 star dps chars in the open world, even when the difficulty rises it doesn't completely block you from any progress. while in hsr since its release there was (i can't confirm if it still is) a huge difference between early game with a four star dps serval or herta and thee jing yuan and jingliu for example. in early game back then I felt myself pressured to pull for certain characters just because I couldn't clear an ipc team leader boss who blocked a whole event for me. herta being a four star dps on a still fresh account wasn't strong (there was no FU set of relics for example) so In had no choice but to beg for a game to give me jingliu, so I got her e0 with a whatever-as-a-lightcone and spent every aether saving I had to maximize her in a day cause I had no time i needed to unlock the event asap... since then I sadly have no hopes in four star dps chars though right now super break dps xuyei is really good, I do use her. in case of misha.. I just have no resources on him still since I perfect more meta viable teams, im just a casual gamer who tries to clear endgame modes but nit at all cost, im chill on meta. but to finally give misha a chance I would need to firstly build my yanqing who I also like but haven't built for the same reason - I still spend resources on more meta teams to be able to clear at least 2/3s of every endgame people say moze is an alternative to topaz? well, my free ratio will finally be taken out from the basement - without topaz he is underwhelming to play

[@CelesteStarRail]

Having 4 stars can be a great thing if you build them well and know how to use them. Some people can't afford to pull for E6 on a 5 star every banner so having 4s is a great thing. plus some of the 4 stars are better than the 5 stars so no 4 stars aren't pointless

[@Regice5cyl5]

I like the options of having budget version of characters, so you aren't dead in the water without them. My biggest example of this would be kafka where since the whole of dot is bottlenecked by her I haven't acknowledged the mechanic at all, simply cause I don't like or want her but if they ever made a 4* version I'd consider it.

[@sjaakbakker9944]

4 stars are always nice to round out your roster, imagine pulling for every 5 star lol. I love how amazing herta is as a 4 star, kuru kuru!

[@alexisfa13]

4 star characters at E6 should be at least as powerful as E0 5 stars, given how they are more expensive to get

[@MrcreeperDXD777]

E2 Moze is better than E0 Topaz 🗿

[@lorenzlighter]

Misha best dps in the game

[@tsuwan6952]

Against single opponent, bro can deal more dmg than Jingliu

[@BmanZeroBlank]

Qingque needs to know your location

[@TheRedOGRE]

I think an e6 4* should be at the same power level as a e0 5*. They cost about the same, or if you have bad luck even more pulls for an e6 4*. They should be making e6 4* DPS with the same power level as an e0 5*.

[@cloveangel]

That’s the case for Gallagher v/s Lingsha, and kind of Moze v/s Topaz - as in Topaz is better, but if you have Moze e2 or above shes not worth the 90-180 pulls

[@sakutaro3musik486]

I agree this is how it should be

[@Sockscalibur]

Xueyi and Herta would like a word with you.

[@artaizen1613]

after realizing one of my other gacha games does not have any pity system at all pulls wise really makes me feel grateful for games that have pities, like sure as an f2p still sucks you have to save, but you are guaranteed to be able to pull some good 5* units if you do your research and be up to date to stuff, and easily every like 2 months or so you can pull at least one of your wanted character no pities = you might never use any limited character at all

[@KumaKing]

Genuine question, is it at least decent to have him and interchange between him or topaz depending on the enemy being lightning weak specifically? Or is that not really worth it because of Topaz’s superior numbers and etc?

[@kennethyoung7457]

If you are in Apocalyptic Shadow than you wanna make sure you are on element. If there is no fire weakness than Moze is going to be better than Topaz for the followup team.

[@f.b.iagent3971]

12:45 Resident Caefly simp here: Erudition/Hunt TB is going to be an OP damage dealer when paired with the brand new Harmony Firefly alternate skin because we’re 100% guaranteed to get both an Erudition/Hunt TB and a Zero Suit Firefly (Firefly without SAM is basically weaponless, so Harmony fits best imo)

[@AllenClayton]

One solution also would be to have a slot in the party that has to be filled by a 4-star

[@Dee-Mellow]

"why would i waste resources" Fun. I know how to have Fun. Its not like im hurting trying to complete endgame anymore so having more fun strats is the way to go. Hell yeah give me the gimmicky characters. Tbf though i didnt build Qingque but i was still doing main story and not completed endgame stuff. I kinda wouldnt build her now either theres not much fun to do with her but i would invest in a super weird comp if it could actually clear content.

[@TEDDY69030]

Hes definitely NOT an "actual DPS like Acheron or Dan", hes 4 star Topaz - a Support DPS for follow up teams who dont have Topaz or want another one. He also has 2 debuffs at E0, so he can work well with Ratio too. Im not even gonna compare him to March cos they work really well together, AND are largely interchangeable, which I think is a good thing! Means no one is missing out either way. Most 4 stars have a 5 star comparison, he also DOES have a unique mechanic - he LEAVES THE FIELD which changes the way he receives buffs, cant be attacked, AND manipulates agro cos hes not there... so Yunli, Aven etc will get hit more, and Fu has one less person to protect. Hes a great DPS that you barely have to sustain, whats not to love? Im very excited to see how he grows over time!

[@asteriskonline3494]

Yes, but actually no. Pointless once you get their 5 star counterpart, but your only option if you don't have them.

[@JosepiThe13th]

0:47 "You'll notice that these characters aren't damage dealers." March: 💀

[@Heinrich_Hein]

You didn't cook with this video. Go play some other gachas and study them.

[@AeryMP3]

E6 moze performs similarly to e0 topaz though

[@buhduh-k5n]

i dont see how moze being a 4 star topaz is a bad thing imo, his buffs are almost as potent as topaz while being a 4 star so players don't feel the need to even get her if they already have moze saving lots of stellar jades which is an amazing thing based off how fast this game seems to be powercreeping their own characters 😭i also believe he is better in any FUA team than march is, he does a lot more dps, better team buffs and more follow up attacks in general (helps feixiao and potential future characters to build up stacks for ult much quicker) Honestly he is imo the best 4 star character besides maybe gallagher to release in this game so far.

[@thePeoplesDog]

i feel like letting 4-star DPSs fill the niche of sub-DPS or "consolation prize for the 5-star you didn't get" would still increase their value and usage and not let them get completely overshadowed by every 5-star

[@MrErdtree]

Why is Moze on the thumbnail?

[@AkyJave]

He's a 4 star and the video is about 4 stars

[@MrErdtree]

@@AkyJave DPS 4*s

[@Gottaloveaxolotls]

@@MrErdtreesub dps is still a dps so it fits

[@justahooman0ntheplanet]

@@MrErdtreehe’s a sub dps, nah?

[@MrErdtree]

@@Gottaloveaxolotls That man is being slapped on as a support and never seeing the light of more than 40k dmg per FUA ‘til the day Topaz gets replaced

[@weddingjay04]

Hoyo learned their lesson with the existence of National Team consist of Xiangling, Xingqiu and Bennet, but the Bennet is the big reason why they dont want another 1 existing to GI, HSR and i guess ZZZ. Bennet is the most OP 4* in the entire Hoyoverse that every Dev team of Hoyo is reluctant to create a new one because they dont want a 4* overshadowing existing 5* and upcoming 5*.

[@LuquePlayer]

after playing Wuwa with Havoc Rover I hope they can make Hunt Trailblazer and next Traveler element actually good damage character that can compete with the rest of the 5Star is fun to have strong MC to have a baseline good team from the start.

[@Malix2238]

They have purpose. They provide you an alternative answer to the element spread or for team comps.

[@herrscherkiller3432]

Mihoyo had this problem in HI3 and i'll basically translate the way that problem was solved into a HSR scenario: Let's say we get a quantum 4 star hunt dps who's skill, against quantum weak enemies, deals a lil' bit of quantum damage and a fixed amount of implosion damage, which is neither considered physical, fire, quantum, dot nor break, cannot crit. Also, his ult would deal lots of bonus damage against shield broken enemies. In that case, let's add an elite enemy with quantum weakness that can generate for itself a shield that is instantly destroied by implosion damage, the shield reduces 90% of the damage taken and if not destroied can be detonated into a single target nuke so powerfull that even Fu Xuan and Aventurine would hardly counter. Add this Elite in wave one of an MoC 12 and everyone wants to use a 4 star. In that case, the main team would be said character, Bronya to break his shield each time it gets it and Silver Wolf for quantum implant against other bosses and defense reduction and maybe Sparkle, for quantum damage increase on ult.

[@ALegendarySol]

I think you're point about Moze is flawed. He's supposed to be a supplement to Topaz. If you don't have Topaz, he's your guy. He doesn't step on March's foot since Moze is actually built for FuA, while march just so happens to work with FuA. Moze is an backup for Topaz, while march CAN be.

[@BenTheTiger131]

As Hunt player I Enjoy playing Sushang a lot as a F2P and Four Star Enjoyer while dealing 2d6 with a Greatsword.

[@jamndude3559]

Well, you sort of mentioned and then side stepped the issue several times. "Why play (insert 4 star here) when you can play (insert 5 star here)?" As you've pointed out in several previous videos, not everyone has access to every 5 star character. It's roughly $30 US for a 10 pull, and a guarantee for a limited banner requires 18 of these. That's more than some people (especially the type attracted to "free to play" games) bring home in a week. Couple that with new players who haven't seen all the banners, and 4 stars who are, in theory, available from any banner, having a little redundancy so players can cover bases becomes more understandable. Misha might never be Jing Liu, but far more players are going to have him than her.

[@ouroboros6738]

Let me tell you this, most of the 4 stars in Genshin may be forgettable and some notable OVERPOWERED 4 stars are also unaffected by meta. Now for some people this type of situation make the game stagnant and boring, but for me this a HUGE long-term QoL for players. It does make the game easier but not too easy since you still need to build your brand new 5 stars and work around elemental reactions, so it's actually depend on time spent and your knowledge in game (just watch Pokke replay Genshin. He can barely 36 stars lol). Some people frequently said "oh this is bad for business, they will lose money if 4 stars like Bennett or Xiangling keep dominating the META." However the weekly gacha revenue stays at top 10 for 3-fking years. So that argument is weak What I am saying is it's okay for the game (HSR) to have strong 4 stars, like we have Tingyun, Pela and etc already. But the problem with HSR they do not have Xiangling/Xinqiu, so it makes the game feels a bit too... Focused to the 5 stars. I can see Moze is filling that strong 4 star sub-dps role though, for FUA only ig

[@datguy3661]

Misha's bounce ultimate is actually more devastating especially againts single boss fight, comparing with other hunt character, which in theory do more single target damage

[@xayahblush7532]

The thing is that neither of them are supposed to be your main DPS. They are supposed to be Sub DPS who get stronger with a specific gimmick. Misha is in fact more similar to Topaz or even QQ, way more than he is to Jingliu. Jingliu doesn't even freeze, that's just how ice weakness work, but Misha can freeze anyone. He may be Ice Destruction but he is NOT competing with Jingliu at all, just like how QQ is not competing with Jade. Jingliu is a hyper carry while Misha is a sub DPS. Different roles, as you said. The problem with Misha is that his gimmick is not that good, the only characters who use a ton of SP and/or benefit from it are QQ, IL and Sparkle. And they don't need extra damage, they need more SP. Misha is in a spot where his role is not being needed anywhere, so he MAY still get a time to shine somewhere in the future if we ever get a Harmony made for duo DPS with a lot of SP generation. (Or for the people who have Sparkle E6) Moze, as you said, is just like Topaz: another Sub DPS. Not meant to be the star of the show at all (how fitting). He DOES have some overlap but not many people have Topaz anyways. When she released she was underwhelming, as she had no one to boost. In her first rerun she had to compete with Aventurine and many people were already drained from Black Swan and/or Acheron, and now you can get Moze while pulling for Robin/Feixiao before you can even pull for Topaz. That's quite the timing for him to come, so while he is overlapping with Topaz, many people are likely to not have her anyways. All that ignoring that he is the only unit who disappears midfight, which means that aggro is now divided by the other 3 units, meaning that he will be a unique companion to Yunli/Clara, fulfilling a role NO ONE can do. This also benefits the Feixiao Aventurine Robin Moze team, as Aventurine is now more likely to be hit, making him attack more. Something Topaz cannot do. Tldr; you flopped this one sir, go back to cooking

[@SuperShesh2]

Consider though: We have enough follow up attack characters to build two follow up teams now

[@weaselinplatformsatndrenchcoat]

In terms of 4 star dps units although some of them have DEFINITELY fallen off some of them can ABSOLUTELY still be built to do a crapload of damage. The build ceiling is way lower for five stars but some four star DPS' with more ivestment can still hit really hard. Bro we have Qingque Xueyi Misha Moze Sushang And i technically den heng too. I would add Arlen but arlen is uh...well...Arlen

[@zamasu8067]

Sushang has become good for super break teams. She has action advance, her skill consumes no SP on broken enemies and she gets spd boost when breaking

[@alchadylan4592]

Moze isn't really a DPS, he is a support/subdps similar to Fischl

[@brycecai4700]

I don’t think 4 stars are that easy to obtain, since there is no guarantee of getting the one you want out of the 3 featured

[@kirbydude667]

Vars on this channel: If you use (insert 4 star here) you are going to lose and you should quit the game Vars on his other channel: If you play Pichu in smash you will lose and you should quit the game This is why I love your channels.

[@vault29a]

Misha even isnt a dbs, he is breaker/freezer specialist.

[@Koyuki_Yukihime]

I think his character point is to be tied with Feixiao , as he sped Feixiao up along with March Hunt . I don't exactly remember who but I saw something like Robin , Moze , March Hunt and Feixiao for 0 cycle MoC .

[@eclipse5708]

Actually there is one other thing they could do and that's create a gameplay mode similar to Imaginarium Theater in HSR. Then you'd see more value in raising weaker units to flesh out your roster. However, it's probably best to avoid this until around Version 3 or 4 when the roster is built up a bit further, since there are some elements/paths/niches that have little to no options yet. Speaking of, lack of Ice DPSes in general is one reason Misha could stick around, and I still use him. I don't like Jingliu enough and she's the only 5* Ice DPS right now, so anyone that doesn't have/want Jingliu doesn't really have much choice but to use Misha. I don't want to stick with him permanently, once they release a 5* Ice DPS I do like I may switch to them, but until such a character exists I still need Misha for Ice DMG and Freeze. There may be similar situations for those roles that have little to no options. Don't have Blade or BS and not getting Feixiao? You're still probably using your DH. Didn't pull Fu Xuan or Aventurine? You're stuck with Gep, March, or TB. Don't have Boothill or Yunli? Your best Physical DPS is probably Clara, Sushang, or Luka. Until they start creating more 5*s for these options there's still going to be players using 4*s.

[@mariokungfu2216]

4 Star Break Harmony When? We need a 4-Star Ruan Mei or something for Firefly and Boothill

[@elvaporoso]

Well they could just create a game mode that you can only use 4 stars and maybe the trailblazer too. I think it would be fun to use non meta characters in that mode, plus you can try new synergies with your team that you havent tried before.

[@dan2800]

Gallagher when buffed to oblivion can shill out sometimes more DMG then your DPS