The Problem With Light Cones in Honkai: Star Rail

[@danielferrieri7434]

Giving your Character the best Light Cone: 😒 Giving your Character the Light Cone that has their face on it: 😀

[@drm726]

That’s actually something I love in HSR. Everyone, even 4 stars, have a signature light cone. A light cones effect will always be useful to the unit who is on it, even if it’s not their BIS or another unit would actually use it better, their signature will ALWAYS at least be viable.

[@Doctor_Faust17]

All signature LCs that are usually the best in slot for their respective characters have their face on it since it's their memories after all so idk what you re talking

[@6mega]

@@Doctor_Faust17 3star LC and some 4star LC are better than Sigs, depending on situation

[@drm726]

@@Doctor_Faust17 Sadly that’s simply not the case. Any website that has builds for characters based on numbers and sims will tell you. Take Sampo for example. His signature, “Eyes of the Prey” is only his 5th best (According to Game8, which is what I use for builds). “Good Night and Sleep Well” (Pela’s signature) and “Fermata” (Kafka’s 4 star alternative signature) will both produce stronger results if you are looking to play Sampo optimally.

[@Maqso]

it's curious how guinaifen has two cones where she's the main character but who can actually make use of them are the secondary characters (sushang and huohuo), also topaz with trend but aventurine's in the background

[@Hououin818]

I don't really mind lc in terms of visual gameplay because it let the dev make characters use the most wacky shit imaginable as their weapons

[@jellomello984]

Like a chalk and a galaxy pig

[@blazingstorm9351]

Pretty much, what's worse is this pro in HSR is now showing the cons for Genshin where if you really want to complete the aesthetic of that character, you either save up or pay. It wasn't a problem with some characters, but when you have someone like Navia or Arlecchino, then the problem is heavily present.

[@jirubyraiden9934]

Or by tossing a fucking hat and chips

[@shadow-faye]

Or your sister's guitar case

[@ahmadrehanalfariz5920]

Its also doesnt gimp characters in some cutscene. Dull blade mc, keqing doesnt even use her sword from arts, etc. Makes characters more distinct aswell rather than equipping just 5 weapon types.

[@therranolleo468]

> there's no weapon that creates small tornado to group enemies Viridescent Hunt in the corner: "SURE buddy....SUREEEEE"

[@someoneinasia]

i mean he did noted that tho.

[@GentleIceZ]

@@someoneinasia He did, but it was visual. I was podcasting this video, so I missed it too the first time around

[@cxrindgo]

also the applying cryo - the dragonspine weapons do just that. he chose the two examples that very much do exist in the game (edit: my bad, just remembered the icicle it’s supposed to summon and misunderstood)

[@princiedv]

​@@cxrindgo This isnt true. I wish it was because during 1.2 I was hyped about Razor being able to do superconduct by himself but the icicles do physical damage lmao

[@xraeynex]

@@cxrindgo the dragonspine weapons don't apply cryo though? they just deal phys dmg when enemies are already affect with cryo

[@mistymarauder]

Some of the newer 5* lightcones feel like their own characters 😭

[@kwayke9]

Even 4* lightcones can be pretty insane (hello pearls)

[@VarsII]

Not feel. They *ARE* their own characters.

[@ChenAnPin]

In essence they are, since they carry a fragment of memory of the character(s) depicted within the light cone Though shout out to some of the 4* light cones that do not match the path of the character depicted within like "Trend of the Universal Market"

[@LustLord]

​@@ChenAnPin but trend do have aventurine in the background though so technically its accurate?

[@Indian_gae_boii]

​@@kwayke9 pearls???? Which lc is that

[@saimfaisal6795]

Loght cones are basically 4.5 star characters, the new ones are so cracked. I remember ppl freaking out about how ratio lc is better than most of his eidolons. Lcs just offer so much Also, i like how lcs let characters use their actual weapons instead if some dull goofy weapon. It a visual treat

[@toohardtothink1113]

What light cones give a visual effect?

[@endermanowa]

​@@toohardtothink1113 the person means that light cones make characters not bound to specific weapon types and therefore allow for more creativity in animations

[@wongo6828]

I love how Gallagher became a top tier unit now with Break teams on the rise. His value will go up even more once Firefly releases.

[@Thivesh_]

Blud can become a literal dps thanks to the def ignore from the new relic set .

[@leylintempest1714]

And plummet again once lingsha drops.

[@apossiblyhereticalalphaleg3595]

@@Thivesh_ gallagher be dropping huge numbers off of HTB's ult, it's not even funny

[@rafi...___]

@@Thivesh_ casually deals 50k of superbreal on each enemy like nobody business.

[@Vindenci]

and thanks to how his kit works he can generate skill points while provinding aoe heals

[@superantoniobro2457]

Theres also the fact that some 4 stars don't even have a "signature" like Guinaifen. There are no Nihility lightcones with HER face on it

[@aidanjackson5084]

Her face is on a Hunt LC (who has Sushang's face on it who is a Hunt character) and on an Event Abundance LC (who has Huohuo's face on it, who is an Abundance character), so yeah that checks out

[@Vic_Trip]

Her signature is a hunt lc lol It made no sense xD

[@duongnguyen-s1i]

@@aidanjackson5084 maybeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee she will become top streamer and change path.

[@jamess359]

​@Vic_Trip Just because her face is on it doesn't mean it's her "Signature" light cone. Yangqin has a 4 LC with his face on it, does that mean it's his Signature LC and not the 5 star version? 🤨

[@eniobiondi2749]

​@@jamess359also Trend of universal market, both topaz and aventurine are on it and aventurine doesn't care about applying dots by being hit.

[@redbone9553]

And that's why KingYuan has no weaknesses. His LC works with almost everyone in his path,

[@ryldmeh251]

One thing to note is that signature light cones in star rail are MUCH easier to get than signature weapons in Genshin. Star rail is pretty generous with pulls and instead of having two weapons on a single banner we have one banner for each weapon. Add on the 75/25 pity and you can get a signature lightcone for a lot of characters without too much issue. Also a side note on the Acheron topic, while she doesn’t have many light cones that work well for her, they did recently release a four star lightcone that’s made to work for her.

[@SyrFlora]

Still can get shafted.. tbh on genshin on bright side, the signature weapon dps jump is not that huge.. because the alternative is very competitive. U can use other char signature weapons and only lose less than ≈ 10% of the dmg for most of the char. HSR LC, pretty inflexible to be honest. Most other char unable to utilise the passive of other char signature LC because how niche each LC is designed. Sig LC also mostly unlock 20-30% more dps for most of them. On jenshin, the weapon banner literally a skem in worst case scenario, but most of time the urge to pull is lower because U char still functions near max potential with some universal 5* weapon. Some consider pulling after factoring aesthetics as well. On HSR, it literally made u want to pull for most sig LC for the chars because without the char just feel bad. Thou genshin unlikely they change the weapon because people are still pulling to be honest, whale still R5. Even thou it literally skem Banner which most peep avoid. At least u not missing much without it signature.

[@zengceng]

weapon should be guaranteed

[@jamess359]

Wuthering Waves guarantee 5 star weapon. Goes to show you how greedy Hoyo can be.

[@zekkekeipa6521]

​​​​@@firedouble8760 Acheron is not an exception. It started from like the beginning with Blade. His best 4* alternative in 25% worse than signature. And now trend continues with Boothill and very stingy f2p cones choice with 3*(!) as his best alternative and around 25% worse than sig. Despite having 4 5* hunt characters with their respective lightcones prior to him, they are extremely tailor made, so you cant use it even as a stat stick on other characters.

[@zakariamimouni279]

@@zekkekeipa6521 only reason for boothill is because we have no BE% Hunt LC, and I honestly don't mind it for Boothill because he already deals so much dmg he doesn't even need it, most HSR DPSes only get a slight increase, Acheron is the only exception that gets more than just stats from her LC

[@overlordshiina]

Wait? Can't light cone be equipped by anyone and the path lock on passive is a way to add that "Sword user can only use sword" type balancing? If that's the case asking for a universal light cone passive is like asking for Raiden to be able to use Mistsplitter Reforged

[@justblue576]

Lightcone is like weapons in genshin that's why not everyone can use it😭 But that comes to the cost of characters with more dynamic kits not being able to use most lightcones Like acheron

[@codeaide5069]

Thats a good point but you have to consider that the hsr ‘weapon’ system is very closely linked with their path or role in a team comp. Its a more accurate to say that its like Raiden not being able to use any other weapon thats not a dps or a kokomi not being able to use a weapon that doesnt buff healing (this feature would especially take away from hyperbloom teams)

[@Za-ln8hc]

@@justblue576 imagine having to repeat what was said in the video in a reply bc someone didin't watch and made a question that was already talked about

[@xenoemblem7]

I don't know about other Gacha games, but Light Cones looks and feels so similar to Craft Essence from FGO. But Craft Essense is universal since anyone can use it regardless of their servant class

[@Selenagiraud2252]

They also feel very similar to mementos from Alchemist Code but mementos were actually worse since everything was locked behind having it equipped on the specific unit it was made for

[@mangasinatanaelpanjaitan3048]

A notable thing with FGO CEs is that there are no Signature one and most damage dealers can work their best with a generic massive boost from CEs like Black Grail. It helps to emphasize that the characters in FGO don't rely on CEs as much as in HSR

[@zaboono]

Fgo doesn’t really have many CE’s that are meant for basically one character (honey lake is one of the only ones I can think of that are pretty niche and work super well with the character the art is based on), most of them are very universal

[@chadachi3970]

@@zaboonoHoney Lake works with any character since burn command codes can be applied to any character, it’s pretty much considered one of the best generalist CEs due to that alone. Though it is basically limited to bossing/CQs.

[@zaboono]

@@chadachi3970 true, it’s just that it’s one of the only examples where something was clearly designed for one servant

[@migueladamo7377]

Imagine if there was an Abudance LC that gives cleanse to your team, not only would that make healing sustainers be more broken than ever but it'd also give incentive to those who don't have any cleanse in their kit whatsoever. Hell if Bailu, for example, has a LC like that, she would most likely go up being one of the best supports. Period.

[@archersterling6726]

Natasha would be Big Boss

[@nonamepasserbya6658]

That wouldn't save either of them. Healers nowadays have to have something other than heal or they bite the dust. Even Luocha fell off since he gives nothing but heals

[@mikonyx7712]

​@@nonamepasserbya6658 Nah, he's fine in that department thanks to his aoe buff removal on enemies. The real problem is that he's squishy af

[@animatedamons470]

These hyper specific passives is getting out of hand

[@archersterling6726]

Every 5star LC feels like a chore to read

[@jamess359]

​@@archersterling6726you just lazy

[@archersterling6726]

@@jamess359 Yes, that's the point

[@jamess359]

@archersterling6726 The point is that you're lazy? Sounds like a personal problem, not a LC problem

[@adityawidarma3803]

It's so weird that Acheron can't fully utilized Resolution Shines As Pearls of Sweat passive

[@Doctor_Apocalypse]

If you equip it on another character she can, but the lightcone itself doesn't do much to her own damage

[@hitoribocchers]

Before I got Acheron's LC I just slapped on Kafka's Lc on her and the erode worked similar to her signature lc debuff, although not as consistent

[@reshmin1760]

​@@hitoribocchers Kafka's lightcone is pretty good on her from what I heard, I think Silver Wolf's is better tho

[@Krnielk]

Feels like they tried to make don-dps LCs for support characters do much more, and much more personalized in terms of stat scaling to get people to pull for them. In genshin basically every support can just equip a favonius weapon and be alright

[@AhaxD-r7g]

i mean in the end we still just slap DDD for supp, now add MoTP for break supp. i kinda regret pulling LC for Sparkle when in the end i wanted to replace it with DDD, like only Robin LC that s good to pull.

[@paulomalley3211]

another thing is that weapons often come with a weird drawback that is specific for the character to overcome, like sparkle can use bronyas light cone but bronya can’t use sparkles because she can’t instantly generate 4 skill points to meet the requirement. The only real caveat to this is the nihility lcs bc of how bypass works and all of kafka, bs and even acheron being able to use kafka lc but for harmony, robins lc gives the buff for one turn which is fine for robin, ruan mei’s only gives the skill point if you have 150 break, sparkle only gives the crit rate is you can generate 4 skill points every 3 turns, to me it’s the lack of universal applicability to these light cones within the path as well that makes them so annoying like Im spending jades either on a character or lc, i want to be able to have a flexible lc

[@JustusWhales]

Regarding Abundance Characters I feel like Huohuo's signature actually works on every single Abundance character that we have right now in some way or another. It grants all of them off turn healing providing much better sustain power. Even for Gallagher it helps him reach 3 turn ults with an Energy Regen Rope. BUT I do feel like this is attributed to abundance lightcones being very vanilla in their effects right now for some reason. So this may change in the future.

[@NintendoFlashShorts]

I personally think it'll be cool if the herta shop would be able to give us a "empty light cone" where we can choose from a variety of options for passives. This will obviously be extremely difficult to implement, and I don't expect it to happen, but it'll still be cool For example, it can cost 20 herta shop tokens, so you can get around three a year, and it can use the superimposition materials already in the shop. It'll have to give a wide range of passives tho, like think about Xueyi with a light cone that "increases Break Effect by 32% (64% S5), Skill deals toughness reducing damage regardless of weakness type" she'll be able to preform her follow up attack WAYY more often all of a sudden

[@Vic_Trip]

Now this would be wild

[@Swellowing]

too broken hoyo probably and definitely wont make that

[@kakyoin5713]

​@@Swellowingfinally grinding something that felt worth it unlike relic farming

[@chadachi3970]

That would require so many extra lines of coding for different options when only like 2 combinations would truly be worth using and you'd feel like dogshit for picking the wrong ones with every CC saying "lol u didn't do this?" Xueyi also doesn't need any new options, Misha LC is literally the perfect LC for her, just roll better. Also those stats are way higher than they'd ever give a free LC even at s5, it'd likely be more like 20-40% BE at most... wait that's exactly what they did with Nihility LC lol

[@SnailSnail-lo4pm]

That's literally acheron's e6, no shot they're giving f2ps that.

[@flippedmasterguardian]

Honestly, I'd love the ability to take lightcones and use them with any path. That would just be so *incredibly* useful. It'd be literally game changing and I can only imagine how powerful it'd be.

[@sunnypa7101]

My problem with 5* light cones is that they are an entire new relic+ planar set gear combined, which 99% of the time are too broken to not go for them. For example, literally look at Bronya sig lc; it has 4pc healer set sp buff, a 30% dmg buff for the ally acting after her. See the problem? The newer lc nowadays has even more stupidly broken buffs. But I get it since it's a turn based game, and there's nothing much to do with weapons outside of combat.

[@luizotavio44]

acheron gains a extra stack to her ultimate which actually makes getting her lc better than going for E2 like her lightcone is actually such a big QoL change

[@roka9963]

bro talking like a 30% dmg buff isnt busted. do you even play games?

[@mayonasepizza]

Yeah i have two of that lc

[@sunnypa7101]

@@roka9963 dude, I'm saying it's busted. That's why it's a problem

[@aarushi2740]

@@roka996330% damage buff isnt that busted since its not a separate multiplier. its a good increase but nothing crazy

[@Hououin818]

11:50 Nobody tell him that a 3 stars lc is Boothill second best option and people have managed to clear with him using a Fu Xuan lc of all thing

[@aceissleeping3298]

Tbf that's because he's a break-oriented dps, he doesn't need crit, dmg bonus or even atk at all. There is no good 4 star break lc yet so you either use his sig or just random lc you want. His numbers mostly come from relics.

[@VarsII]

It's his second best option because there are literally no other options.

[@PrismPupsickle]

@@aceissleeping3298 my friend uses that 4 star Yanqing LC just for the SPD lol

[@Hououin818]

​​​​@@VarsII That's also kinda a good thing tbh because his performance is not entirely depend on them which unironically make him extremely f2p friendly. Although I think they'll release a 4 stars lc for him because Blade encounter the same situation when he first release

[@eniobiondi2749]

Which 3 star?

[@Rzra]

I pulled Seele's sig mainly because even if she got powercrept, everyone likes speed, ult, basics, and or skills right? Then Ratio came out, and then Boothill came out..

[@donnyv4750]

Boothill likes speed and ultimate damage though.

[@Rzra]

@@donnyv4750 It doesn't give speed, and having a lot of speed just gives worthless dmg% bonus. For reference his ult damage deals ~20k on adversarial.

[@tuananhdang7385]

I think you’ll need to wait for 3.x patches for them to at least bring back standard burst hunt characters that utilize skill and ult(dw i have her lc too and am using it on YQ 🤡) Its the same as JY lc. Literally one of the most universal lc out there

[@junyaiwase]

I knew something was up when I finally got to hertas shop, had enough to purchase a lightcone and looked up guides for characters that these lc could fit and a lot of them seemed so… trivial, for a five star weapon

[@ZeromusNightmare122]

tbh herta shop cones were designed in a "planned obsolenscence" way intentionally. It makes sense, since why make the best weapons in a gacha free? Plus their effects are too general to be great in a broad strokes kind of way. They're great for what they do, and when they apply, but only if you don't have the actual thing they're supposed to use

[@jamess359]

You might as well call them 4.5 star Light cones. Stronger than a 4 star but weaker than limited LC

[@junyaiwase]

@@ZeromusNightmare122 yeah i understand that, but it's very telling when people reccomend 4 stars over them or they straight up do less damage than them despite higher atk stats

[@chadachi3970]

@@junyaiwase Effects mean more than stats but Aeon is generally considered one of the best LCs in the game for any destruction character. Hunt is also really good, 32% crit rate and more Atk when you kill? It's consistency > raw damage output. Yeah Swordplay does more damage, when you hit 1 target and have multi hit skill, switch it up and you're losing dps. Silence is stronger when there are 2 enemies, instantly lose dps if either one of them summons or there are 3 enemies. Herta Hunt is consistent all the time. Nihility is actually seeing a rise with Super Break being a thing, 40% BE is nothing to scoff at when the only stats that matter are BE and Spd. In Super Break no other LC offers anything in comparison, maybe Kafka's for the spd but that's doing too much, it also is good with DoTs which you get a DoT with most elements when you break, so it just fits. Preservation is pretty dog though, it's only good on Fu Xuan who ironically doesn't really work well with other LCs anyways and likes the fat HP shield + Effect Res for Keel. If you have Fu Xuan it's good sub for her sig (her sig is overrated and isn't useful in anything but SU (unless your bad lol)) but otherwise, yeah it's dog. New one coming out is not bad either, great for Pure Fiction and any Erudition character who wants extra Spd, but it is limited by how many enemies there are. Overall they're not top tier but the idea that they're not good is hilariously wrong.

[@ZachPlum]

⁠@@junyaiwasethat’s just not true lmao at least for the two that actually matter

[@Kuddochan]

The fact that LCs don’t affect any sort of appearance is nice in the sense that the devs can create whatever they want for characters to fight with, but at the same time make them a lot more boring to pull for since they’re all just stat sticks

[@huealter3366]

Stat sticks with lores, stories and visual. Each LC tell a story or a part of hsr lore. Many character even debut in LCs like Gui, Hanya, Xueyi, Topaz and even Aventurine

[@Kuddochan]

@@huealter3366 For sure, but none of that is visible in combat, only in the character select screen. Might as well just have been a page in the data bank and it'd have served the same purpose.

[@shinkudo7134]

actually some LC gave U more than stat sticks that improve the character it taller made for (Bronya LC gave more SP, Archeron LC gave 1 more Ult point,...)

[@GokaikillerTobi]

​@@shinkudo7134erudition LCs are so universal that each current character of erudition can use them

[@justblue576]

​@@Kuddochanthey can't give characters weapons Since it's a turned base game they were able to be creative with the characters weapons Limiting them to weapons like genshin would defeat the whole purposes

[@maevethefox5912]

I really think that FOMO is just the biggest driver in HSR design. No character feels skippable, and no character really feels complete without their LC. Granted, it's way fewer pulls on average to get an LC than a Genshin signature, but it's brutal how unfinished characters like Boothill feel without them. I think I'd feel okay with it if the game wasn't continuously rebalancing itself around the newest character. If I could take like four 5-star units, vertically invest in them, fill their teams out with 4-stars, and comfortably handle everything, that'd be grand. But the game leaves you feeling like you can't skip any character AND those characters feel like they need their signatures, AND there aren't really functional 4-star stand ins for most of them... For me at least, who had been a low but consistent spender, it felt like my choice was go full Whale or just drop to F2P and stop caring so hard, and absolutely I picked the latter.

[@kennethyoung7457]

Characters only unskippable if your current team is underbuilt. Boothill and Fu Xuan are skippable at this point in the game. Jade and Argenti probably most skippable banner yet zero purpose getting units specialized for PF when other units that are great with single target dmg and aoe exist. Firefly and Ruan Mei? skippable you don't even remotely need them in this MOC built specifically for break. This is the easiest MOC in awhile no need to pull for break dps. Just get a few different characters that work well together and than skip the rest. Premium DOT team has cleared every MOC and Pf since release, IPC followup is the new OP team and it clears all the content easy as well at E0S0 using f2p light cones not even gacha 4 star lcs. Acheron with Pela and Silver Wolf also another really good option if you want a universal team. I used to think like you that you need to pull new character all the time especially limited supports and sustains which have game changing mechanics but game is not really like that. Vertical investment is still very viable if you just want to brute force content using same team all the time buts its usually overkill. Good relics, synergistic team, and good strategy is most important thing to clearing content.

[@extrastuffboxofaksakl1k354]

"Character acting different from their path" was issue since day one. Ahem, ahem, Serval. If Serval had exact same as her kit but her path become nihility, she would be so powerful.

[@alpaga4820]

I think the developers are probably very happy with the result since it heavily encourages people to pull not only for the character but ALSO for their light cones, and since they are available at the exact same time you cannot manage your jade expenses over time you have to spend everything at once, which means you probably won't have enough saved up and you will feel the need to buy some, which is Hoyo's end goal. So overall I think the system is very well designed, just not with the enjoyment of the players as the main goal.

[@Selenagiraud2252]

The Fu Xuan clip is incredibly misleading. If your whole team is dying while running Fu Xuan you’re doing something wrong.

[@doriansz3130]

Fu Xuan gets demolished in Swarm Disaster or against enemies that do a lot of DOTs. She is good for fast fights, but for long fights.

[@Selenagiraud2252]

@@doriansz3130 She’s good against single target but weak against AOE. Aventurine is weak against single target but strong against AOE. Two tanks who accomplish different things

[@Eflaene]

The clip doesn't have her Matrix up, so yeah

[@Torinn1X]

⁠@@Selenagiraud2252i disagree aventurine is good both single target (FUA and ult can help contribute to break and deal good damage) and AOE (thick shields and FUA can clear trash mobs)

[@tripplesouth]

​@@Torinn1XI think it was about single/aoe attacks against your team. Not against the enemies.

[@pagholicky]

imo, honkai star rail take on weapon ( Lightcone ) is inspired more by honkai impact 3rd, where signature weapon is a very much an integral part of the kit as it is tailor made for that specific character in fact, it is usually advised to not pull for a character if you cannot get their weapon in HI3 and simply save instead for future chars, tho as always it does not apply if don't really care about abyss rank or you are pulling for waifu

[@himalkanwar77]

also that Kiana herrscher of flamescion weapon is double pistol but in gameplay she uses great sword never uses her pistol and Lunar vow her weapon is cross but uses chainsaw

[@dragonballMS]

Imagine if they make animated lightcones ingame like they do in youtube shorts. Dammmnnnnn

[@ahlemlora1452]

HSR's lightcones are more character specific but are WAY easier to obtain than genshin's weapons. As an F2P, in genshin I was only able to get one limited 5 star weapon in 3 YEARS because I needed to save enough primos for characters, in HSR I have gotten 4 signature lightcones in one year while also getting every 5 star character I wanted. You also mainly only want dps lightcones, most support lightcones can be substituted with good 4 star ones.

[@rhianx]

hey not really the topic but how many limited 5* did you get within that time frame?

[@PizzawurmV1]

"There is no weapon that adds something new to characters in Genshin" Meanwhile: Favonius Set --> enables battery role Viridecent Hunt --> enables grouping Sacrafical Set --> enables like a billion new ways to play characters Prototype Amber --> enables healer role If you dont have every 5 star character and 5 star weapon in the game there are plenty of insentives to let a character do something else by giving them a specific weapon

[@cman5516]

Favonius and Sac don’t really give new play styles, they make their current playstyles more consistent by making ults/skills faster to use a second time. Viridecent and Amber are fail though, those are adding completely new mechanics with their effects.

[@realcanadianRC]

A minor but possible change could be to allow all characters to use light cones in sim universe if you are currently following that path. So for example. if you are running nihility path, you could put acheron's lightcone on dr ratio to give him more debuffs, or hunt path allowing you to put seele's lightcone on acheron. it wouldn't be so game breaking considering what you could pull off in SU already, but it would be a fun change that gives us more teams to test out

[@joshsolders5543]

This video ignores one specific detail... Acheron's lightcone is a boost because she has a very specific use case in her path. Is it a problem that Boothill's lightcone is best in slot on him because he is the only break scaling hunt character in the game so far? There is the distinct possibility that like with Bronya's lightcone, other characters will come out with similar mechanics in the future and use them. The only thing that Genshin has over HSR is that it has 2 more years of weapons and characters Plus Genshin rarely if ever bothers with unique scaling. Most if not all characters are ATK or HP scaling with one or two using EM, two most recently with BoL, one with ER and a few Def scalers, but most people ignore those since they are all Geo. Genshin doesn't have a specialized stat scaling problem because almost nothing has specialized scaling. HSR is actually being ambitious with its characters and designs, so since they are trying to create a diverse set of characters, there has to be a first. Ultimately, this is a problem only if you want to buy generic characters that do the exact same thing as other characters... but are newer and have higher multipliers.

[@cinnamaricat]

i thought this video would be complaining about "oh this lc only works for this character" when it's literally meant to be pulled for if you have the character i was pleasantly surprised that you're talking about an issue more of us can relate to that being there's not enough lc options for certain characters bc of the kits characters have these days like i love my acheron (i have her on alt) but if i didn't have gnsw i'd have only 1 lc option and it would restrict me to keeping sampo on the team which i don't mind ofc but acheron's team is restrictive enough (that's just an example) also i have dhil (on main) i noticed a big difference in his performance when i got his sig lc which ofc nothing wrong with the sig being so good but compared to the 4* lc i was using prior oh boy i started to see why 4* destruction lcs aren't it

[@Skew0443]

I think the lightcone system isn’t as bad as you make it out to be, as a F2P i think it makes me think more about which lightcone is more optimal for this character since i don’t have any of the top tier character specific ones. It gets me to think more, instead of just whatever one has the biggest number in a random video i found.

[@bleh491]

Can i be honest, why does it seem like every time Vars make a video about HSR its always something nitpicky or negative?

[@Eflaene]

I feel you. He has done neutral/positive videos in the past but I guess it's easier to highlight/take into words issues that you have with a game rather than things you like (what you like becomes expected, the "norm" so what you dislike sticks out more). But yeah, dunno how I feel too much about his vids recently. Kinda miss the new characters videos but then they weren't as informative as a full guide so kinda unnecessary.

[@VarsII]

People when I make positive/happy videos: zzzzzzz so boring not gonna watch People when I make negative/critical videos: smh such a hater I can't win. You just happened to conveniently ignore that the last two vids I made on HSR were on how follow up characters are some of the most future proof in the game, and the top five strongest characters. Then you ask me why my videos are so "negative" lol.

[@Dennis_Renaldi]

this. and it's literally not even a huge issue. he's describing hsr to be this pay to win game where every single character gets powercrept constantly and 4* can never clear any content (they do), where it's just very far from the truth. every single limited 5* at e0s0 CAN clear every content. I'm af2p player myself, and I always full clears MoC and mostly pure fiction as well I wouldn't be surprised if he makes a video like this for eidolons, saying it's extremely necessary or something

[@california_wang8078]

@@VarsII ya know, you could start a conversation without being nitpicky tho, like guide for players to deal with powercrept, you did a vid about it but didnt expand out some of the possible solutions like farming for versatile sets, namely quantum and dead waters. You could do genuent critiques too but this "oh no signature and 2nd best option has a huge difference" and im like... they're called signature for a reason yes? and they cost the same type of resource, albeit less, to get em, they better be good or else why would i spent .8 of a 5 star character pull for a best weapon when i could just get the alternative in memory store for basically free. Also, get this 8:25 outta here, they play nothing alike

[@xraeynex]

Day 1 HSR player: I have never pulled on a signature LC. You just don't need to. There's no point in pulling for them. The only one that has ever tempted me has been FX's - and not bc she needs it, but bc I just really like her as a character. No single 5* needs their signature weapon. You can clear the game without pulling on any banner at all, and that's not going to change. If you're struggling to clear content, then it's time to re-evaluate your team composition and your relics. Are sig lightcones great? Yes. They will significantly boost your character and make them easier to build. But with a good build, what even are you boosting for? There's no point. Especially when most characters have great ftp options. If you do decide to go for one, know that your odds of getting it are significantly better than pulling on Genshin's weapon banner. 75-25 instead of 37/37/25

[@cloveangel]

im going to be honest, i REALLY don’t see this as an issue????? Even for acheron, they made a 4* lightcone for her in literally the NEXT PATCH, and even though the SU lightcones aren’t as good as signatures, i’d be scared if they WERE as good! This isn’t a hate comment, and I’ve also been annoyed seeing the difference between one lightcone and another for a character, but it’s really not an issue. Take Boothill for an example: He can’t use any hunt lightcone as of now, yet the 3* lightcone that gives him speed is literally amazing for him. As long as he has break effect, the lightcone doesn’t matter. My harmony trailblazer is on meshing cogs, yet at only 156% break she can deal like 120k damage no shot. This isn’t that big of an issue, Acheron was the only real *exception* for this - and they gave her a perfect lightcone in robin’s banner anyways. Again, NOT a hate comment, but my opinion.

[@VarsII]

The point of the boothill segment was to stress that light cones being path locked make it so you have to settle for suboptimal choices if you can't get the character's signature weapon. The 3* light cone is only "amazing" on him because there are *literally* no other options for break hunt light cones except for his own. He can't even equip a harmony light cone like ruan mei's just for the break effect because the path locking straight up doesn't allow him to. Yes, break characters only care about break effect, but there's a difference between relative efficiency and objective efficiency. Objectively boothill can still succeed with a 3 star light cone but relative to his own signature weapon (or if he could use say... Misha's light cone hypothetically), it's so much worse. You have no choice though since that's all you have. Regarding the Acheron 4 star light cone coming out for her next patch. That's still kind of a dick move in my opinion. A lot of people were pressured to pull for her signature light cone because they DIDN'T know there was a 4 star one coming out. It should've come out the same patch.

[@cloveangel]

@@VarsII Thats true, but honestly it’s not as big of a problem as people doom post it to be. Sure, as the game develops the signature cones will become more.. signature! But I don’t see it as CRAZY cause as a f2p I’m not struggling, only the crazy meta people are. I can 3* MoC 10 so I see my account as solid. You’re DEFINITELY right that the Acheron lc was a dick move, specially cause Robin/Topaz and Acheron do NOT mesh well together, but there’s still GNSW! Yes the damage is SIGNIFICANTLY less and less accessible, but I have friends with s1 gnsw who can still do crazy Acheron damage. The lightcone argument IS valid, but not to the point that the game is useless if you don’t have signatures imo. Hell, the moc lightcones are enough tbh :/ Still see your points as valid though

[@Charlez_Ink]

No offense Mr. Vars II but sometimes in your videos I feel like since you whale so much your experiences feel very divorced from those who are free to play or low spenders. I think this is one of those cases.

[@WalnutWife]

I think what infuriates me the most between genshin and hsr is the weapon vs LC banner chance ratio. I love pulling for signature weapon / LC but genshin almost always scamms me into losing 2 50/50s so I stopped rolling for them mid Fontaine. HSR feels way more generous. ☹️

[@zethras5252]

That's exaclty what i feel after pulling Boothill, i just can't pull for hunt units, i already got Seele, Dr Ration and Topaz, and the Light Cones are so hard to get and so specific, i feel like getting another hunt unit would just be a waste without their signature, but that means pulling even more. What a great marketing strategy

[@Elhaque99]

Its called SIGNATURE lightcone for a reason. Its like you use a dress tailor made for you by a dress maker. They make it of you sizes and even more into it like skin tone, face, etc. Can any other people use it? Yes, as long as you have similiar size (same path in HSR). But would it be the same as when you use it? Ofcourse not. It is premium priced exactly because its made for you.

[@Chestyfriend]

Yeah but making a dress that explodes when anyone else uses it is just bad design.

[@oursaisert]

One of the reason it's especially important for genshin's weapon tto work on multiple is character is that 5050 is really unforgiving and you very realistically might end up with one (or god forbid two) copy of a weapon you never even wanted in the first case. HSR's 75/25 is not only more forgiving, the weapon's you get if you lose are the standard banner one's so you most likely will have a use for them since you most likely DO have the character to go with. Also 5* LC aren't the only ones with unique playstyle altering effect, you mentioned acheron being rough without her LC but that could be alleviated with trend (yes you can stack both but i remember some calculations showing one is enough). On top of that most characters are top tier even without their LC so it feels nice to be able to offer the ones you really like a significant power boost without having to go and pull copies. I'd compate star rail's LC to genshin C1/C2 that have become more and more significant without necessarily being required. Anyways, yeah it could always be better but HSR is so generous with pulls that I really never feel forced or pressured into pulling for anything. We have a lot of endgame content but we also have a lot of free shit that's really really good (ie pure fiction having a "free side" with himeko and herta)

[@nickn5419]

Overreaction for sure. Comparing a turned based weapon system to an arpg does not carry any weight. 5 star limited weapons are suppose to be that, an op weapon that makes that 5 star character more op. HSR is not the only game that does this. The real problem HSR has is lack of 4 star options. Most paths only have 1 good 4 star lc option outside of their 5 star weapon.

[@colorlessguard]

10:14 “Xiangling can use Nilou’s weapon” i think you meant Cyno here lol??

[@guyonyoutube501]

I don't think it's that bad in HSR. The weapon banner is much better than in Genshin, since it doesn't have the terrible fate point system. There's also no fashion impact with light cones, like what happens in Genshin.

[@yu-gi-noob9656]

Something about equipping a character’s signature light cone is so satisfying to me. My Fu Xuan is stuck with a f2p light cone, and it hurts me to click on her equip screen.

[@chadachi3970]

This video is a bit misleading as LCs are not as impactful on clearing content as you’re making it out to be. Yes obviously having 5* sig LC is best in slot, but there are alternatives that are still very good for certain characters Some examples -Fall of an Aeon is one of the most universally good LCs in the game, any destruction unit (except Blade) can make incredible use from it and I think you misunderstand how the second effect works. That unit does not need to break the enemy, an enemy just has to be broken in general, so it is just good in general. -Herta Hunt LC is also strong, it’s a free 32% crit rate with bonus Atk after you kill an enemy. Yeah it’s not providing things like “ignore 20% def on FuA” which are insanely busted, but as a generalist LC it’s one of the best. -Different Harmony LCs give different levels of impact for some characters, but Dance Dance Dance is one of the best LCs in the game period, use it on anyone and it is incredible, better than some sig LCs. Only character it’s not usable on is Robin, who is really good with the free 4* LC we got from last event or Bronya LC for the energy regen. -Ruan Mei and HMC make incredible use of Memories of the Past, it is their 2nd best option behind Ruan’s sig. -The only character I can think of that gets so much benefit from LC that feels needed is Blade, he just does not have great alternatives in comparison as no other LC offers any sort of HP value. Ironically one of his better LCs for consistency if you need help with crits is a 3*, but still it’s nowhere close to his Sig in value. People will say Boothill LC, no he doesn’t need it, he’s insane without it. Firefly LC, nah, Aeon is really strong on her for reasons. Acheron, strong but no, she has GNSW and newer 4* crit nihilty LC that she can use very well. Instead of focusing so much on their bis, look at alternatives. Majority of the time a characters sig bis is completely overkill, it’s made to make the character look insanely busted in comparison to without it. It is not necessary whatsoever.

[@Dennis_Renaldi]

honestly, a lot of this guy's video is just like this, it's getting annoying. people who watches his videos would think that hsr powercreeps every single patch, releases far too many 5*, and is extremely unfriendly for f2p. in reality, players get 105 pulls per patch on average, and powercreep at e0s0 levels is literally nonexistent. he's literally frustrated on the game for non-existent reasons

[@chadachi3970]

@@Dennis_Renaldi I kinda agree on some points he makes, but there are definitely some stinkers like this one or the bandwagon of “Seele fell off.” Like I get, gotta make content on something during downtime but this just ain’t it.

[@Dennis_Renaldi]

​@@chadachi3970yeah, he does reasonable videos too, like the last ones on echo farming on WuWa and criticism on clorinde but my god that "seele bad" video was horrible. watching that, you'd think seele was soo much worse than other dpses, it's insane. the truth is, every limited e0s0/e0s1 5* characters clears within 1 cycle of each other on MoC 12 (according to prydwen's account survey). that data of MoC clears has been circulating since 1.0 and the data collection mwthod has been perfected over time, yet people still argue "x character is soo bad" or "x character is powercreep!". I swear people don't read these days

[@JeSt4m]

IT IS SIGNIFICANT For me specifically It's the differences between 0 cycling and 3-5 cycling endgame content. Context : My Seele have 3k atk, 77-198 CR CD full set of Quantum + rutilant using the SU hunt LC. As far as build goes she's probably hitting 90-95% of a perfect build. However I still can't 0 cycle MoC or PoF even when there's someone on YT who managed to do that with same or sometimes inferior team build. The differences? it's LC, I don't have the signature LC. I've played tons of gacha game and non-gacha game with weapon system but never before the differences between P2W weapon and non-P2W weapon is this huge (actually I have but it's from extremely shitty P2W game that's already closed) and therein lies the problem. You also completely missed the second problem of this LC system which is the hyper-specialization of signature LC. Again there's plenty of game that utilize weapon system before but I've never seen something like HSR where some signature LC is downright as strong as entirely new unit while sometimes being utterly useless unless it's used by some limited unit.

[@chadachi3970]

@@JeSt4m You don’t have her sig, yet you know with it you’d 0 cycle instead of 3-5? Nah that doesn’t add up, I’ll make a more detailed reply in a bit as I can’t go into detail at this moment, but that made no sense lol

[@utsubyo]

it's not nearly as big of a difference as you claim i love how you give an example of Jingliu's signature and free 5* LC and say "the difference is HUGE" and when you look at numbers right next to the LC the difference is 12% XD i just looked through prydwen and i found 3, literally just 3 characters for which signature LC is more than 15% better than alternative options, majority of characters have other lightcone options that are in 10% range difference, a few of them are in 10-15% range, only 3 go beyond that, those being Blade, Boothil and Acheron which is kind of understandable since they stand out- hp scaling/break scaling/crit dps as nihility, 0-15% difference is very much in line with what you can see in genshin meanwhile you're acting as if in hsr the issue is much worse, it's not btw fuxuan can no problem sustain a team in pure fiction even without her lc, she has a heal on her ult you know that right? it's not a big heal but healing for ~500hp every ult when team takes only 35% of the damage reduced by another 16% and possibly another 8-12% with day one LC, thats equivalent to healing/shielding for 1850-1950HP with each ult, if you struggle with that then you're just taking way too long in fights and it's a dps issue, she's a top tier sustain even without her LC

[@archeri2000]

I actually appreciate Star Rail's light cone design a lot, especially compared with Genshin. By constraining by path, they are a lot easier to balance. In Genshin, because the same weapon type can be used by characters in all sorts of roles (dps, subdps, support, etc) the design space is constrained because new weapons need to be balanced against all the possible users of it. An average seeming dps weapon might somehow be overpowered for a support. With Star Rail, due to the paths broadly separating characters by team roles, balance can be a lot more focused. This also allows for the light cones to have more overpowered effects, because the effects of it on the rest of the meta is easier to reason about. I think powerful effects make light cones feel rewarding and exciting to use. The problem of having limited options does arise, but i think that's a natural consequence of the developers trying to expand the design space, and it will be alleviated in due time when we have more characters and options. Of course, on the flip side, with the blurring of paths, these advantages are going to be muddied with time, but I'm optimistic the developers will find a good balance. Acheron's light cone is particularly egregious in terms of the advantage it confers, but i think in most other cases, the benefit of the signature light cone is significant but fairly reasonable. New strategies that emerge from the release of new characters also allow other light cone options to come into the spotlight. For instance, I've recently found success using Welt as a main DPS in a super break team using not his signature light cone but instead resolution shines in pearls of sweat. Because break damage doesn't scale with dmg%, but does scale with defence reduction, resolution improves the teams consistency and damage numbers a lot more, albeit at the cost of having welt himself deal a bit less damage on each hit. Dance dance dance is also a powerful staple that is extremely effective in a carefully speed tuned team. I feel that these powerful but niche options encourage creative team building and reward those with an attention for detail who are trying to optimize their setups In summary, i think the design of light cones are easier to balance effectively than genshin weapons and the power levels allow for interesting team building, regardless of whether it's to mitigate not having a character's signature, or to take advantage of a niche effect.

[@bonkadork]

I'm surprised you didn't atleast mention that lightcones have a 75/25 instead of 50/50's like characters and has a guaranteed after losing only one instead of the two losses in genshin. Also in genshin, correct me if I'm wrong because I've never pulled on the weapon banner in genshin, but can't you like lose 2 50/50's at like 80 pity twice then you could get your guaranteed weapon at 80 pity too? Like after getting the fate points or whatever you could still hit pity right, you don't just get the weapon out right after losing 2 50/50's....? Also the fate points don't carry over......

[@mormegil84]

Pretty much. Weapon banner in Genshin is brutal.

[@yuuya3639]

Wait I thought the 75/25 was exclusive for when you first pulling on the weapon banner after that it'll be back to 50/50

[@bonkadork]

@@yuuya3639 I just checked and it's still 75/25 and I just got Boothill's lightcone so it doesn't revert to 50/50 after you pull the banner 5* lightcone.

[@Marc-rw3dd]

​@@yuuya3639No, it's permanent. Everyone said not to pull for lightcones but that generous rate plus the fact that they are so busted now, too good to pass up

[@carlos2villalobos276]

In hsr every dps needs a new lightcone, thats the point of the video, in genshin you pull one skyward atlas and you have a weapon for fishcl, tartaglia, yelan, kujou sara, even venti can use it and get good numbers with it, in hsr you pull seeles light cone, and only seele can use it cause of how especific it is

[@MeiEnjoyer]

Is this really just 14 minutes of whining about having to roll signature weapons in a Honkai game? Wait 9:11 he complains that Fugen can't heal the team. My guy do you even play her? The heal isn't the good part about her LC. She does her job just fine with the Herta cone and Trends of the Universal Market is her best cone in Yomi teams. You picked one of the worst LC for your argument, Fugen cone is just premium comfort.

[@caelum1156]

>Fugen >Yomi It's Fu Xuan and Acheron, bro. Stop trying to be a turbo weeb

[@coreo6688]

I didn't like LC's at first but then I watched my friend play genshin impact and roll for arlechino weapon...god damn did that suck. There is no gacha game that doesn't have a system like this If it doesn't have LC or Relic system and it's literally pure stats from leveling, cough Dokkan Battle, the game just powercreeps the characters in 3 months, you need 1 million defense to not get one shot , now you need 1.5 million, now you need 2 million, suddenly the best unit in the game from 8 months ago with 1 million defense, GETS ONE SHOT today. They do have a system where they can rework a character in 2-3 years after release to make them viable for 2-3 months but....yeah, props if you are still playing by then.

[@AkumaItachi]

@@caelum1156 Fugen, Yomi, Mitsuki, Hanabi, Hotaru..i willl use the names i want to use, thank you Now go back to your shitty english dub and terrible names like Sparkle Damn, it really is easy being a prick for no reason

[@Marto-kh6sm]

​@@caelum1156why are you even consuming these products if you are embarrassed about them?

[@KurulaGuambeTSB]

I can't help but think that this is just a throwback for the weapon banners being easier to pull. On Sparkle's banner, I got both characters and their respective lcs in an incredible low amount of warps, which made me think how could that absurdly rare event have translated to genshin(fate points). Now, it's Alhaitham banner and I saved a guaranteed since Yae's banner, but I was on the infamous 37% chance of getting the desired weapon at 50 pity. Gave my shot... got Clorinde's. In genshin, tis way more complex to get a 5 star weapon than in hsr. And altho this might not be true, I still think that making lcs working for characters with specific requirements was a planned move. Feel free to prove me wrong

[@springod36]

I’ve been using boothill a lot I used to use final victor light cone as boothills multi hit effect works well with it and it’s easy to get him at a good crit rate/ crit dmg but every since I switched to his signature it was huge that extra break effect makes a massive difference

[@drakingp2119]

As a Boothill with LC enjoyer, I feel like including him here in this vid is misplacing him. He's a unique case where he doesn't need many options, just running him with Adversarial, team building and relic farming you already have to do, will have him doing equivalent LC dmg. Buying his LC only lessens the burden on actually building other units. In fact its probably better that he doesn't need more LCs. Because subscribe for more would likely make him just the strongest unit in the game hands down as it gives him a nearly 100% dmg increase. If anything, on the surface it's more frustrating to see that you only have one options, but is it so bad if that 1 option is a thee star you will have at S5 just from pulling him? Which i feel that speaks more to his make up than badly designed LCs especially because he's so unique in his build. They built a hunt who doesn't need crit, when hunts are some of the crit hungriest units.

[@FireflySupremacy]

Personally, I agree with what the video says overall but I wouldn't say that it's a "problem" for the most part, while it is true that the characters who completely defy what they're meant to do in the path they're advertised with basically face this problem more than the rest (biggest example being Blade, without his signature lightcone, your only choice is Secret Vow which is miles worse than the former), the better way I can describe it as in my opinion is just the whole mechanic being unstable and competent dependent on what Hoyoverse plans with it. Characters who has gameplay that strays away from the path they reside in don't appear very frequently, and whenever they do, it's either made up by them working just fine with the inferior alternatives or work fine WITHOUT a lightcone passive at all (only boothill fits this description for now). As for the lightcones that are personally tailored to suit their intended wearer, you can pretty much just consider the lightcone as a somewhat cheaper eidolon that you pull for if you want to invest in said character more, rather than expecting it as something you can maybe swap into future characters. I feel as if that's the point.. considering unlike weapons which are tools that can be passed around to anyone and use as long as they're compatible with it, lightcones explicitly show a piece of a memory from the character (5 star ones being alot more personal, as in to show that it quite literally is meant for the character shown in the art). As for why I think this mechanic is unstable either way, this was extremely close to being an issue before they added the second batch of free 4 star lightcones in Penacony's release, in which their passives all seem to differ from the first batch, being intended to be used in more complex characters rather than the conventional ones. It all depends on what easily accessible lightcones they would be releasing overtime and what characters they plan to release, which ideally should atleast be able to perform just fine without the extreme need of a lightcone passive, or they'd be able to use one of the lightcones the majority of the players are expected to have or have a way of obtaining without gacha currency. TLDR: the current set of characters we have aren't exactly pitiful without their self tailored lightcone, I personally think the lightcone mechanic stays okay as long as Hoyoverse keeps releasing accessible lightcones with varying passives and characters that can use them as alternatives. (Also offtopic but Fu Xuan can personally sustain a team by herself better than most even without her signature lightcone as long as she's built right smh dont diss her like that!!!)

[@casumycapy6155]

I do agree that lc is very exclusive to their intended character compared to the limited weapons in genshin,but comparing it to genshin is just unfair. Hsr has free 5 star in su , while genshin does not give any 5 star for free. Moreover, one 5 star lc in hsr is 80 pulls with a 75% you get the featured lc in the banner. genshin 5 star weapon cost way much, although also 80 pulls (not sure), there are two features weapons in the same banner, with a 50/50 ratio to get a standard weapon, even you get a featured one, you still have to win one more 50/50 to get the one you desire. If you failed the first time, the second 5 star you get will be a featured weapon, but you also have to win one more 50/50 between the two featured weapon. You can only get a guarantee after this. A five star weapon in genshin is way more costly than a 5 star lc. Not mentioning this is just unfair comparison.

[@huealter3366]

Limited 5* characters don't have to get their LC to be good, their LC just buff their ability and their gameplay by a lot which is how it should be done, unlike with Luocha and Silver Wolf LC where they better of with 4* LC

[@Violet70725]

That is why people look for new information about new character. People who are f2p and low spender prefer friendly build characters. Meanwhile, whale/f2p and old players get more options.

[@BestgirlJordanfish]

I think LC thematically and narratively is incredible. So much storytelling packed with each one. But oh my god they should not have to be as hard to get as limited character banners, and should have more freedom to push characters in directions without being such absolute game changers. I think it could be a cool system down the road where you use any LC outside of path, but limited to one of these swaps per party, or it reduces the LC stats by 10 levels or something. Still could be playful in design. Lastly, I think they could play with more LC design, fashion hunter style. An LC that adds a cosmetic flair later like an aura or extra fx around UI or attacks could be fun flavor blasting. Lastly, I think they can release character *exclusive* LC, just to buff characters that got hardcore power crept, released in small packages every year as an event. Like physical MC, dan heng, march. Then arlan, asta, hook, or something. Could be fun.

[@douglasmirandasilva]

The entire game is perfectly designed according to the main objective of the corp side of the game. Sell as much as possible. Bad for us, good for a handful of people in suit that doesn't even play these games. I still enjoy the good side of the game, but I never forget that the priority is always make you swipe.

[@conejitorosada2326]

I personally like how LCs are made as it really makes you think what to use for which characters and on what you need more of. Furthermore it actually makes going for them worth it as LCs cost the same as a 5* Character so they better be worth going for. Universality would be good for a gameplay aspect but in terms of Gacha and 'worth' of a LC it's a good exchange.

[@hilo01]

And even then, the Universality aspect already exists with lower rarity LCs. Dance Dance Dance, Memories of The Past, Quid Pro Quo, Meshing Cogs, etc. That's why I also think it makes sense for Signature LCs to be very specific to a char because well... they're Signature.

[@UncannyCreative8128]

I think there needs to be more quantities of upgrade material from farming them that's for sure especially since you also need to upgrade artifacts

[@ashprime3747]

A arguement can be made why they made LC more specialized unlike genshin's, we don't have to win a 25% chance everytime we want a character weapon. Its so bad that summoning for a released characters' weapon is almost never worth it unless you can reach hard pity through path as getting that other featured weapon can really brick your account. Like what am i suppose to do with 2 baizhu weapons ;c

[@CyrusLastiwka]

Quick fix, every light cone has 2 types associated to it. So say one that heals a character every time they basic attack can be used both on abundance OR destruction.

[@Crusttisuu]

Its not badly design its actual perfectly designed to be predatory. Im far from being a f2p in Genshin and Hsr, however ive spent more per prach on hsr then genshin even though im a day 1 genshin player. Ive only pulled 3 limited weapons in 3.5 years and 2 Sig LC in 1 year. The pain is real. In genshin i choose between events, BP, 4 stars or standard 5 weapons before resorting to limited, but in hsr i only got 4 star +forgotten hall, and 1 event (i miss tutorial) and 5 star standard.

[@sunnypa7101]

Sig LC does so many things for being a "weapon." For Dps, they give them that last mileage of crit value/damage bonus/break effect, etc, everything related to damage dealing, which quite literally bypasses their breakpoint along with their signature buffs tell me this isn't overkill. For supports, their Sig lc are nothing short of a fifth character in the team; Sparkle lc give shit tons of crit buffs, Ruan mei lc gives energy, sp, dmg buff, that lc alone could just be another character. For sustains, let's just say with their Sig lcs you can never ever die outside of su dlcs. That's how much of the amount of unnecessary sustain they provide. Now, in hindsight, this may seem like enhancing your gameplay, but trust me, it's not. Teams with e0s1 can quite literally throw strategy outside the window and go bruteforce everything in the game. I like lcs because they give that last amount of stat boost needed for your characters, but where I cross the line is when certain core aspects the characters kit is locked behind their lcs(looking at you acheron), which: 1. Really is scummy. 2. After you get their lcs, they give even more value beyond the characters kit. This is exactly why I think a lot of fomo exists in hsr. Everything is so good that you're missing out on a lot if you don't pull. The only way to get by this is to get near perfect relics because, let's be honest, no one has or will ever have perfect relics. If perfect relics exist, you can literally not use your lc and still get perfect results. TL;DR: Lcs are too good to be considered a good gameplay aspect. Because they're too good, missing out on your character's Sig lc really sucks.

[@HotMokha]

I feel like Signature LCs only feel so restrictive at the moment because of how early into the game's life we are. The devs have done a pretty good job making every new DPS pretty unique in how they function, but eventually there's going to start being overlap between new units and old units.

[@byeguyssry]

Is this a bad thing, though? I really liked Kokomi, so I of course pulled for her signature weapon. However, Kokomi's main role is as a support and not a main DPS, despite her signature weapon buffing her damage. It feels bad that I want to get a character's signature weapon because I like that character, knowing that it's a marginal increase, or worse, outclassed. While it is true that a character is significantly worse without his light cone and therefore, you're punished for not getting it, you could also look at it the other way: you're rewarded for choosing to get it.

[@kikilocket]

If we could use cross-path LCs on characters i reckon they could keep it balanced by allowing you to keep the effect but lose the hp, atk and def stats. That way, LCs would be more flexible but with a penalty on stats for using the wrong path.

[@anti_beta8793]

12:49 Lightcones actually take on averrage 10 Pulls less to get them, so around 65 Warps for a copy. Additionally winning the 50/50 is also more like a 56/44. MrPokke made a video on this, where someone in the CN community analysed Millions of Pulls.

[@kain1799]

I wouldn't say you're completely wrong but usually a patch or so later there will be a pretty good ir not intended secondary personal light cone essentially. Not ror every character but a good amount

[@FlashKillerX]

Losing on the light cone banner 3 times in a row when it’s literally 75/25 is bad game design (real and true)

[@MelficeCyrum]

The issue is that sometimes the 5* cone is so grossly stacked but sometimes the signature LC feels like a luxury. For example, Cogs is such a universally good 3* cone because you basically get energy whenever you attack or are attacked. Which is something a lot of signature cones don’t do. But then you have characters who are so mechanically unique like Robin. But then you have Firefly where the Herta cone is literally her second bis because of her unique trace converting attack into more BE. In fact an early version of her was nerfed because Fall’s attack scaling conversion was BETTER than her signature.

[@UndyingNero]

This only stacks on the problem with star rail being purely a stat game with no room for skill expression at all. So these numbers and effects on these weapons literally decide if you win or lose encounters.

[@SmotheredByLove]

I'll take Star Rail's light cones over Genshin's weapons any day, at least it they have interesting effects and aren't just stat sticks. Also, it might be a bit of a hot take, but most people are really bad at understanding how Star Rail works. Only signature 5 star light cones are really limited to their 5 star characters, the rest is pretty open, with older lightcones becoming relevant again as more characters and playstyles are made available. Acheron is a good example because most of the playerbase overreacted like crazy. GNSL is perfectly fine on her, just build better teams that spread more debuffs to charge up the ultimate. Boothill's signature is of course his BiS, but there's an amazing 3 star option for him (by the way 3 star light cones can be amazing, just read the damn things). This has only started to become a problem because alot of people coming from Genshin never pull on the light cone banner and then complain they have no options, when the game keeps providing them with new 4 star options on the banner that are really interesting and could be great fits for future characters.

[@GagleDan]

To me star rails light cones feel a lot worse than genshins weapons not having signatures in star rail often feels bad especially for conventional dps units as it often means you lack significant amounts of crit, in genshin stuff like the fav/sac weps being so good for a lot of support/sub dps units feels great and if I want crit for a dps I can just grab a bp wep I often only go for a 5 star wep because I love the character and want a boost, in star rail it often feels like you only got 66-75% of the character unless you get their lightcone

[@joemamma2326]

I think that a somewhat of a solution would be to allow all units to use any LC but if their path is not the same, then they get a reduced effect on the passives, but that also has its problems

[@jadedanielgallemit6320]

There is an interesting solution that they made for the gist of the issue with LC’s being that each patch actually gives enough to get both a lc and the character f2p with my experience being an example. For the past 5 months since december, I have been able to get both the lightcone and the character (tbf i have been lucky) but the shot is there and with the lc banner being a 75/25 in your favor instead of a 33/33/33 in genshin, although not a complete fix, it does help.

[@moonwhispers]

The weapons aren't comparable to lightcones as the gameplay is balanced in a totally different way. On top of that, 5* weapons in Genshin are MUCH harder to get than 5* Lightcones in HSR. No competing Lightcones on banners, 75/25 instead of the convoluted mess of the epitomized path, it's a very different system. I don't whale, but I have several limited 5* Lightcones at this point, I have a bunch of e1's also.

[@No-Ink]

I think a good solution is making more of those free event LCs and have them be generally be designed around a mechanic. Like a Hunt LC based on break effect and damage; that way people with Boothill and not have his sig LC can have something to work with him along with any future break effect Hunt character.

[@weregretohio7728]

When Genshin's weapon banners weren't annoying enough:

[@ryldmeh251]

I mean tbf all of this is partially balanced by the fact that weapons get their own banner each rather than having to share a single weapons banner. Which means you can’t accidentally get the other limited weapon you weren’t pulling for.

[@grimsdol4665]

I think this issue is a byproduct of the game being new, like the issue with boothill isn't so much that the lightcone is the best for him by far, it's that it's the only one with break, if they added in 4 star light cones then it wouldn't be a problem

[@toukoenriaze9870]

think they are adding a new break lightcone to SU

[@xraeynex]

@@toukoenriaze9870 The next one to be added should be for Eruditon

[@brycecai4700]

Well there is a new one 4 star LC for Archean that increase crit and crit damage, but you still have to pull 5 copies of it, so if the lightcone cannot be obtained for free then the problem still remains

[@chadachi3970]

@@brycecai4700 Just pull better 🗿

[@spoons2275]

I’m happy to say HSR has gotten better at making sure niches have a 4 star light cone they can use

[@Ugotsomemilk]

For Boothill i actually started to use the 4 star Den Heng one. Having higher crit rate, if less units are on the field, is kinda his playstyle. He is specifically single target and he usually has to clear the trash mobs before the boss, to stack his medals.

[@Dennis_Renaldi]

I mean, lightcones cost 160 pulls max vs 240 in genshin, and hsr hands out 105 pulls per patch vs genshin's 75 (by hsr and genshin bookkeeping), so I really don't see the problem here edit: not to mention the 75% win rate vs genshin's 50%... lightcones are just far easier to get, so unlike in genshin, they're far more accessible for f2ps (unless you literally want every single character in the game, in which case you shouldn't be playing gachas in the first place)

[@eniobiondi2749]

Aditionally, topaz and aventurine's Lc make teams with robin ratio viable because you would have 3 constant debuffs (aventurine also becomes more synergistic with acheron too)

[@co7769]

In all your wisdom, do you not realize that they are made this way so that people spend money on the game? This design was very intentional. If they made light cones more versatile then there would be no point in pulling new ones. Literally just money. People saying "yea but its more generous than genshin" are super wrong. Genshin weapons are more versatile but harder to obtain. Star rail light cones are easier to obtain but less versatile. Pretty much the same thing if you ask me. For my money tho, characters are 1000% more worth going for in both games hands down. Edit: just realized what you are doing by making this video lmao

[@jakit0556]

8:30 you can run any standard 5 star with a limited 5 star and the chance of it being better is just so astronomically high is insane, unless you are giving boothill lightcone to seele, or fuxuan lightcone to gepard, its not an issue, furthermore genshin is a game where the weapon banner system is about 6 times worse to interact with than the limited lightcone banner do you not understand this? in genshin when you pull a weapon it has to be useful because you cant spend all the time or waste pulls all the time on weapons, in genshin i have 2 limited 5 star weapons, aqua simulacra for my ganyu and staff of homa for my hu tao, i can use staff on any polearm dps, i can use aqua on any bow dps, and it would work semi well even on yoimiya despite the low base atk which you never mentioned btw, i digress my point is that in genshin the weapons are indeed tailored to the characters, but as you said it yourself, they are stat sticks and anyone can use them, that is because they arent easy to obtain, in starrail i have 3 limited 5 star weapons, kafkas jinglius and ruan meis, i can give break effect to any support and let the use ruan mei's thats not a problem with me, i used jingliu's on dan heng, it literally works as long as 3 characters get hit in between the next attack, it does the exact same dmg boost as a jingliu would, and kafka's lightcone is universally good though i have s2 welt lc so i barely even need it, the point is that i have never lost a 5050 on weapon banner and have more 5 stars than in genshin where ive lost 2, meaning that even if i was as lucky as possible and won everything i would only have 1 more weapon. on top of this in genshin you dont need your supports to have 5 star weapons at all, in starrail it is very welcomed actually as you can see with ruan mei giving enery per wave, 24% dmg boost and a skill point, sparkle giving a ton if crit damage and damage bonus, bronya light cone gives ENERGY REGENERATION RATE, like thats the rarest stat in the game and it also gives skill points back how is that not a perfect stat stick for any support? how is the system flawed when you can buy tailored to any gameplay aspect 4 star lightcones from the shop, and furthermore the s5 limited 4 stars are very close to dmg vs the s1 5 star options as well like himeko does 3% less dmg for going s5 genius repose vs s1 before dawn on top of all this im pretty sure the amount of useable 3 star lightcones in starrail is way higher than genshin's one weapon being that crit rate sword lol, either way ive quit the game but i srsly remember times where bait was believable, i hope this video is satire and have a nice day

[@kernelscout3077]

i dont mind lightcones in HSR being powerful because of how easy they are to obtain compared to genshin. of my 2 years playing genshin i have only pulled for weapons 3 times. 2 of which were before i realized how much of a scam the banner is. in HSR, i havent spent any money and i've gotten 3 signature LC's while still being able to get the characters i like. i do agree with certain LC's getting rid of character weaknesses.

[@hvcskmagyar]

Yes, lc is indeed WEIRD, but its not a "weapon" its a part of a character, so its reasonable to say, there are signatures that only good for 1 character I don't think its a bad system

[@KalleDemos666]

I disagree, I think you're legitimately overglazing Genshin's systems, there's a bunch of LC's that work with other characters, in fact most support characters don't require their own LC to function and a good example is Ruan Mei, RM literally has only a marginal increase in her support capabilities with her own LC while a 4* LC can even make her easier to build. DPS are usually the ones that are more strict about needing their own LC but even a character like the upcoming Firefly could theoretically use SU's free 5* LC, contrast that with weapons in Genshin such as the new Arleccino one, sure, you could theoretically use JWS on her and still have practically the same dps but BOTH are 5* weapons, Neuvillete loses a massive 20% dps by not using his own 5* weapon.

[@tjstyles1659]

HSR is more generous than Genshin for a reason

[@Doctor_Apocalypse]

Ye the generosity gets canceled out by the costs of gearing up the characters

[@VeliaOwO]

Maybe they give more free rewards, yeah, but characters get powercrept all the time which means you need to constantly pull for new ones if you want to keep up. And if you really want to make your new shiny character top tier you need their lightcone which isn’t very affordable for F2P. You maybe get more free pulls, but you also need to spend much more. Honkai Starrail also has to be that generous because of all the other turn-based gacha games out there while Genshin Impact doesn’t really have a competitor except Wuthering Waves atm. As a bonus you also get a lot of rewards by just simply exploring the open world in Genshin

[@anristellariza9036]

​@@VeliaOwO you'd think that after an entire year of this argument being used you'd realize how wrong it is--but really, no. Guess all the Jingyuan clears with 4* supports don't exist. Guess all the 4* only MoC12 clears don't exist. It's really not that hard to find them, unless you specifically DIDN'T look for them so you continue putting up this ridiculous argument. HSR--despite being generous--is literally competing neck and neck with Genshin on revenue charts, swapping depending whether hype release comes out, or a dead patch.

[@archersterling6726]

​@@Doctor_ApocalypseStarted HSR like a month ago a jeeezz, the artifact system here is such BS

[@mosquitowing]

​@@archersterling6726 no buddy, you just don't know how to actually play it, being lazy as you mentioned in another comment.

[@rotwiler661]

What's that picture of Jingliu lightcone 2 minutes into the video

[@Furiasu]

That was the original desing for her Light Cone, but ended up changed because of the game's rating

[@cloveangel]

@@Furiasupretty sure its not the old lightcone, but an artwork made by the official lightcone artist lol - i dont think hoyo would even consider such a….. suspicious lightcone

[@VeliaOwO]

Ohh you mean at 2:48? Didn’t even notice it :o

[@Seelie_Serenus]

It’s half past midnight for me, so I can’t watch the video now, but I look forward to watching it properly tomorrow! :D

[@crosssroads]

lcs have become so specific with the characters kit in mind that we haven’t had much flexibility with them. damage increase like jinglius aren’t my concern but rather qol and mechanical lcs like acherons, kafkas or topaz’s that make them much more important to own to utilize the characters kit .

[@janablom823]

Still waiting for them to make duo path characters/light cones

[@dominicjannazo7144]

Introduce a character who follows the path of beauty. Except they don't. Yeah, I wonder if there will be some hybrids in the future

[@Blackoutdmc]

Something to note is that they do go back every now and again to introduce 4 star lightcones to help fill in the gaps for units that require strange synergies. For example, releasing the 4 star Acheron lightocne that would make a brilliant alternative to GNSW, As well as introducing What is Real? for Gallagher at the beginning of penacony, as well as the 4 star Break Destruction lightcone that would be good on Firefly, and Xueyi. As well as giving us a good generic HP healer lightcone during the Huo Huo event. So it's not as thought they're leaving players to completely fend for themselves here, they're consistently giving us options to use, and as long as they continue doing that, I have no qualms about the lightcone system at the moment.

[@Ron-Aesir]

and then there's Xiangling, who can probably use every polearm in game

[@darkdude1996ify]

I think the primary difference between HSR and Genshin is that Light Cones are designed for their path/role and can't be swapped out, whereas Genshin has support/DPS characters/weapons all mixed together. There is no dedicated DPS weapon type, no dedicated support weapon type. Not many weird scalings, and even if there are, they're made to function on their own (i.e. Yelan scaling off HP but not necessarily needing an HP weapon to function, unlike Blade who basically has no options to choose from). In HSR, if you have a new character that scales off some weird stat, you really only have LCs in that path to choose from, and very often the options are going to be limited to 4* LCs that have very one-dimensional stat lines (like the aforementioned Blade only using Secret Vow because all the other LCs scale with ATK). Supports in HSR still have some leeway, since most of them work with ERR, speed and defensive stats anyway, but the same can't be said for DPS characters. It translates to relics too, and it makes it feel like every relic could potentially be a good one eventually because you get all these weird hyper-specific stat combinations that no other character uses, but is insanely good on that one specific character, but at the same time that relic is completely useless on every single other character. It also kind of ruins any creativity that people might have. Take the Abundance BP LC for example. It could've been a really good LC, but since it's locked to Abundance characters, it feels very lackluster. Meanwhile Genshin has Prototype Amber, which allows people to run teams without a healer even in content where they're expected to take some damage. In HSR you can kind of do this with certain characters (like Welt or Fire MC), but most of the LCs are completely locked to the role their path is supposed to fulfill, even with all the weirdly specific combinations of stats they have (as long as you ignore 4* Preservation LCs, seriously, why do nearly all of them seem like they boost the user's damage?). Luckily, as I've been saying since patch 1.0, HSR gives more pulls so that you have more freedom to pull for characters and LCs, and the LC banner is a lot more forgiving than Genshin's weapon banner. The premise for pulling is different between the 2 games. HSR gives out more pulls exactly BECAUSE you're expected to pull more, so the pain of having to pull for a signature LC sometimes is greatly alleviated.