Are any of us actually artists?

[@monicasdesignprocess]

This has been such a fascinating discussion that stemmed from Morgue's original video, I really appreciate these thoughtful commentary videos like yours. Yes, you could say that because your job was solely focused on creating art does mean you've "made it" but I don't think that's what everyone who wants to make "art" their full-time living actually wants. They want the freedom to create whatever art they want which isn't how it works when you're hired for a specific art or design job. You were hired to create storyboards for a story you didn't create and probably worked on many things you didn't like or care about at all. It's also not your original art or ideas, you are considered work-for-hire which means the company owns the intellectual property, in a way you are a tool for the company that publishes that art. But most people want the glamor of being the original creator, making whatever art they want, and then surprised when no one else wants to buy it. Those who believe "you can't make a living from your art alone" have to decide what matters most to them. Do they literally just want to focus on creating art all day long, regardless of whether it's original to them or not, and nothing else (as in business, marketing, etc.)? Then develop a portfolio, apply for jobs and freelance gigs. But in this case you are still creating what someone else wants, not necessarily the art you want. If you want to have more freedom, flexibility, and actually create art you want to, you'll have to create your own business out of it with MULTIPLE streams of income. Every business does this, it is suicide to only have one income stream. It is completely ok for some of those income streams to be adsense, sponsors, coaching, etc., these are all considered advertising for the core work or the "art". I don't understand why people criticize those who are doing what every business is doing. Also realize this route will take years before you're profitable, a lot more work than a 9-5 storyboard artist who immediately gets paid for what they're creating that day. So you also have to consider your risk factor and how "comfortable" you want your life to be (let's not forget about benefits and vacation, not guaranteed when you start your own business).

[@siamystery]

this is a really great point, thank you for sharing! in my experience people in animation have a very broad set of skills depending on what department they work in, and those skills can easily transfer over to other creative endeavors, like self-publishing a comic or selling paintings for example. we all just happen to end up in the first category you described, for various reasons. appreciate your insight!

[@Papershire]

Exactly! There is nothing wrong with having several income streams and passing on your knowledge to others (albeit a fee) is not a bad thing at all. We also have to care about what our customers want, not just draw whatever strikes our fancy. I personally am trying to break through youtube and it has been a pain in the behind lol. Those who managed to amass a community here earned the right to monetize that. No one is being forced to buy their courses either.

[@regis_red]

I will say this, as an animator who has a Fine Arts degree AND a Finance degree: any activity / passion that one wants to make a living from HAS a business side to it. As soon as you want to make a living from something, business knowledge comes into it. Finance can be intimidating but it’s simpler than you might think. You don’t have to be a Wall Street wiz to get the basics and make your activity work.

[@TamPop]

I just wish that at the very least, the videos Morgue mentioned could be titled "How I Support My Art Business through [Content Creation/Streaming/My Online Shop/Brand Deals/Educating]" or like "The Pillars of My Independent Art Business" instead of like… "How I Make 10k/Month as a Full-Time Artist". I understand the click-through-rate game, but like… I dunno. For me, transparency is like, putting the fact that the income is multiple-streams, upfront.

[@punkSKVLLY]

I think there is ultimately a really unfortunate situation right now where a lot of people are having to hustle (in one sense of the word) to get by and almost as a direct result consumers are really wary of being hustled (in another sense of the word). Combine that with the fact that content creators in every category have been exposed for explicitly cynical and predatory behavior, it seems overall like a really tough time to be a consumer and a really tough time to be a brand or even just an independent creator trying to market and monetize your work.

[@Amelia_PC]

Let me see if I can explain this-and if I can do it clearly. The definition of 'artist' and 'art' has been debated for centuries. But right now, in this moment in history, let’s consider: if you’re working for someone else, on someone else’s idea, can you still call yourself an artist, or are you more of a craftsman? Is creativity tied to having the original idea, or can we just execute someone else’s vision (for a studio, company, writer, etc.) and still call ourselves artists? Does owning the idea make you an artist, or is it just the execution-or both? People tend to forget that we just sell our skills when we work in the entertainment industry. Is that enough to be considered an artist, or are we 'just' craftsmen? I think people are asking the wrong questions about what it means to be an artist. Or what is Art and Art's object (different from a product). (Yeah, I’ve been a comic book artist for almost 20 years, making a living solely from my this. I’ve never taught classes or sold books or anything like that, and always relied on my agent. But now I want to learn how to sell things online. That's the weirdest times we're living in. Can't rely on just gigs in comics from now on - my hand is full right now, but I don't think it'll be like that in the next 6 months)

[@LexAup]

Hmmm. A craftsman is an artist. So art has always been a product to be sold like any other going back to the start of civilization which we can see by statues and pottery created by artisans. Philosophically and poetically speaking yes it's an expression but in reality it's a product. The debate on what it is started in the Romanticism era when galleries started, the middle class started purchasing art and started discussing it, it's not like that masses where having discussions about art before that because it was for the wealthy and only their close friends would get a chance to see those works.

[@BigMiniGeek]

If I say that I make a living as a "cheff" and I work "cooking" in my own "restaurant." But in reality more than 60% of my income does not come from my activity as a chef, but rather from other sources of income such as consulting, cooking classes, selling merchandising for my restaurant's brand and others... can I really say that I am a "cheff" and I "make a living cooking"?... wouldn't it be more correct and fair to say that I am an entrepreneur who is enthusiastic about cooking, instead of calling myself a "cheff"? As I see it, if more than 40% of your income depends on OTHER activities than those that correspond to your "professional title" (artist, athlete, musician, writer, doctor, architect, etc.) So you are NOT what you say you are... why more than 40%? Simple, any business/profession that depends on activities that generate income greater than 40% are "vital activities" and it is not possible to do without them. I understand that the strategy of many is to use a certain "professional title" because that way they will be able to connect more quickly to the market niche that interests them and on which they have designed their business plan. But they have to be careful, because things like Morgue and Kelsey happen.

[@PutineluAlin]

My biggest gripe is a bit harder to put in words so bear with me, you're actions determine your reputation and while we can't hold people in high regard art is a low barrier of entry to call yourself an artist does not mean I need to get commissions from the Vatican and paint like Michelangelo. No you can paint fan art in MS paint and you ARE an artist. Now on the topic of sustaining a business, making art is making a product to sell from scratch. We are not making labels for products or art is just 10% of the product, no art is the product and we sell our time to gain a living that has no need for an outside job that could take half or leave us with only 3 hours of art left to do on that day. Getting a sustainable business to have more time to make art is crucial. So with those points there lets now discuss the consequences of actions that will led to people having a bad stain on your business practices. 1.Selling a course and telling very vague or simple advice. 2.Get bombarded with in roll adds in the video, sponsorships. 3.Never update the store. 4.Doing commissions badly. 5.Gaslight. There are more points of bad practices. These will affect your reputation online. People will snowball things and you have to give responses but it's hard to defend yourself if people hate the bad practices or bad customer support. So yes it's not about being an artist, it's about the actions to not have an angry mob that another youtuber can take advantage of to resonate with people and gain a following of hate for other youtubers. Don't make a toxic community.

[@Wrathgir]

As a small artist and having a part time job as well. I wish I could be a artist full time, but you have to do so much just to get by with all this side stuff and art business stuff. I do have a shop open as well as going to start doing commissions and all cause of losing more hours at work. I probably should get sponsored for my streams and youtube videos. I just haven't done so yet. It isn't easy also doing all the work with social media stuff and also juggling a shop and a job while working on art. I also stream games at times and it's rough to run it all. I might cut back on games and do some art streams. I have tried working on comics I had ideas for, but I got kinda discouraged over a few things on them. Just so many projects at once kinda makes it hard to do, so I have decided to just work on one project at a time. It's rough to do all the things I do at once when you have friends wanting to do things like hang out or play games with me, having all the projects I have, and running a etsy shop. I have to schedule certain things on certain days cause of it.

[@kentharper2222]

Yeah I had to make an OF account where I paint while performing

[@Sunshineattacks3]

Wait… really?

[@kentharper2222]

@ it’s a jk

[@Sunshineattacks3]

@@kentharper2222 oh my bad

[@tharug5785]

Great video! Been enjoying hearing from someone directly in the animation industry. I feel like the main topic should be about how one advertises themselves. For example if someone primarily makes money through youtube rather than their actual art, should they market themselves as an art youtuber or art entrepeneaur instead of full time artist. Therefore not creating any illusions about where one obtains income. They can self identify as an artist, but im talking more from a marketing point of view which is about communication to other people.

[@mix-up9003]

I wish you well on your KZbin career.

[@senior_sakuga]

Gonna need that storyboard artist job like crazy lolol

[@nocturnus009]

Thank you for this. I think there is a need for a collective read or reread of The Grapes of Wrath. Especially Chapter 14. I have a different read of the story and our place in it because I read it with Red Famine: Stalin’s War on Ukraine. The creation space can learn much from the collaborative agriculture lessons not learned in the 1930’s by Okies and Kulaks. The Zygote has split and WE lost OUR land.

[@Sherif-the-Watcher]

Great content as always

[@Infinite_Repeat]

Really appreciate your videos keep it up

[@donovanmartin7946]

i respect you think adam duff might be a 'good person' but many of us in the whole anti gen ai speace really have turned against him becasue he essentially told actual genuine aritsts and those wanting to actually practice and hone are skills that 'we lose' and the suck it up, just figured you'd want to know then he walked back what he said realizing it was hash and unesscary to say

[@obkk]

he was wrong, doesn't make him a a bad person

[@mf--]

it's not necessary to mention it because he realized that his statements were harsh and unnecessary to say.

[@uhwaykin]

@@mf-- It’s still relevant to his judgment and potentially to his character, especially if he only walked his statements back because they hurt his bottom line. Personally I stopped watching him well before then because there’s a weird sort of guru shtick he’s got going on that I find very off putting.

[@mald379]

I totally support Morgue in this. There is a chain of people who end up learning a whole job and craft for them to only be able to make money by teaching OTHER people how to do the same. If this is not a pyramid scheme then i dont know what is. Don't get me worng, I'm struggling too, and i wish i could be an artist for a living, but this job is disapearing FAST. If my choice is to change my career path or teach others how to also be jobless - i will always choose another career path. Its different if you teach people how to paint for a hobby and be clear about the state of industry, but saying "look, im making money on art" meanhwile youre making money on making promises how to make money, its just not ok.

[@Papershire]

Teaching people the ropes in any given craft is not a pyramid scheme. No one is guaranteeing you a stable good income, in fact they all say you have to diversify your sources of income, have emergency funds, etc. These courses are just marketing strategy, you have to figure out for yourself things like niche, types products to sell and how you're going to make your art resonate with people. I solely make money off my art, but that's because I managed to find a product that people buy often, in a style that's not too intensive. This would not be the case if I was just selling art as it is. We all have to try and find the right angle to make it work for ourselves and push through with trial and error. Treat other artists' videos as entertainment and them as a buddy you are on the same journey with, not someone who can solve your problems for you. Try and find a good niche that you absolutely love, you can do it!

[@siamystery]

Pyramid schemes require multiple levels of people recruiting others where the person at the top earns a profit each time. That’s not what’s happening here. You could say that is dishonest marketing; I don’t personally agree but you’re entitled to your own opinion. Accusing someone of having a pyramid scheme however is very serious because that’s a crime in many places, particularly the US.

[@mald379]

@@siamystery I'm not talking about specific people, I'm talking about the industry as a whole. There are other branches too, similar thing happens in get-rich-quick schemes and courses where they teach you content creation buy the content creators aren't making living wage from specific content, they're making money on the courses. And then more people will make courses because they can't make living on making content. In the end the number of people making courses outgrows the actual merit of the courses, if it never stops then more people will be selling courses than actually doing the jobs. That's how it's exactly like pyramid scheme, because it's pyramid shaped. MLM are also not "technically" pyramid scheme, but they function as one.

[@pickledshoe]

A lot of people need to take off the rose colored glasses and realize what it actually takes to make money as an artist.

[@ameliaroseillustrations]

Finally someone telling the truth about how hard it is to run a KZbin channel! 😭😭