Are Birds Dinosaurs A Debate with Kent Hovind (Audio Remaster)

[@katamas832]

48:50 Just a timestamp for anyone who wants to hear Kent say he has no idea what a dinosaur is lol.

[@DapperDinosaur]

That gets a 📌

[@MartTLS]

What’s a Kent ?

[@johnrap7203]

Watching 3 months later, I hear part of your intro. Spooky...

[@caleberwin65]

@@MartTLS if I found a Kent skeleton, I wouldn’t know how to make it not believe in the Bible.

[@MartTLS]

@@caleberwin65 Would if it be a ‘missing link’ ?

[@shanewilson7994]

Dino: Explains that birds are a subset of dinosaur Kent: Dinosaurs always give birth to dinosaurs ..... well, yeah. That's the point.

[@DapperDinosaur]

yeah, he's rather dense.

[@DapperDinosaur]

@Trebuchet No worries! How do you think I felt?

[@shanewilson7994]

@Trebuchet I wasn't able to get all the way through it either. I got a good bit in, but the constant belittling that Hovind does, and the lying, just annoys me too much. The weird thing. He's harder to listen to than a flat earther. Dino, you did a great job explaining your position, and the details.

[@alsmith5526]

Get a clue. Not one time in history did a dinasours give birth to a bird and there is no proof of that.

[@alsmith5526]

@Trebuchet please prove to me dip sh$#t that he is a con man. Timothy proved nothing.

[@mr.pseudo4300]

"Dinosaur means terrible lizard, therefore dinosaurs are big lizards"... Would Kent argue that a Jaguar car is an actual Jaguar?

[@DapperDinosaur]

I doubt he would, but it's certainly the same logic.

[@parmaxolotl]

@@DapperDinosaur I wanted to tell him "jellyfish means squishy thing and fish, would you argue that jellyfish are fish?" The Sapir-Whorf is strong with this one.

[@DapperDinosaur]

@@parmaxolotl yeah, he loves argument from etymology.

[@Zeresrail]

Let me channel Kunt for a sec: "No, a jaguar car is cleary a truck"

[@bigcahoonah5318]

Everyone knows catfish and tiger sharks purr and meow.

[@agoodtheory]

"you'd think computers would get better if evolution is true" -Kent Hovind, *literally every single debate he's in*

[@DapperDinosaur]

I'll ge honest, I chuckled the first time he said it, but it has just gotten cringier every time since.

[@unholybeing6414]

But they have

[@unholybeing6414]

(But probably not the way Kent meant

[@leeshackelford7517]

@@unholybeing6414 hahaha... Just before I moved to Taiwan, to teach English, I bought an LCII Macintosh It was the newest thing by Mac......40 MB ..yes, 40....MB..... Computers definitely did evolve

[@MartTLS]

He’s still using a Commodore 64.

[@zootlend1750]

I wish I had the type of courage to participate in a debate on dinosaurs without even knowing what a dinosaur is

[@DapperDinosaur]

Is it courage or hubris?

[@jamespacker9110]

Courage requires you to have at least some knowledge of the danger of what you are doing. It takes a special type of hubris and lack of respect for your debate opponent to go in with as little knowledge or preparedness as DOCTOR Kent Hovind PhD ScD JD EdD DFA MD DO DDS DMD

[@LadyDoomsinger]

Are you kidding? That is literally my worst nightmare: To have made a complete and utter fool of myself for years and never realizing it.

[@ajpatter210]

Your strategy here was seriously brilliant. I get so frustrated watching people play into Hovinds hand when he is SO predictable. The way you had slides prepared reminded me of Kent's worst loss against Bill Ludlow. (R.I.P.) What Kent chooses not to understand is that the classification system that taxonomists use has birds in the category of dinosaurs. He can't disagree that that is how they have been classified.

[@DapperDinosaur]

Sorry I missed this, YT held it for review for some reason. But thank you! I thought really long about my strategy, glad it panned out.

[@AtheistJr]

That was my old personal account. When I said "strategy", what I specifically meant was your argument ONLY being that "this is the anatomy of birds, let's compare that to the anatomy theropod non-avian Dinos, this is why birds are dinosaurs" and not arguing that evolutionary theory is true and has happened/continues to happen. I think you had to tell Kent about 6 times that you were not arguing that evolution was true. I also found it really telling of how uneducated Kent is on the topic when kept saying "Birds are dinosaurs, and dinosaurs are birds". No, Kent, all birds are dinosaurs, but not all dinosaurs are birds.

[@thewoollyviking5928]

@@AtheistJr I have to wonder if it was just plain old stupidity on his part, bad faith can only excuse so much...

[@Ugly_German_Truths]

@@AtheistJr The problem with Kent is that he never knew anything and for his Snakeoil sales program then also had to unlearn some more things. Basically nothing in his hastily repeated script is true. And most of the things he claims evolution says speak of such a deep and thorough ignorance of any evolutionary biology, that it's almost unbelievable the clown has done this for the better part of fifty years!

[@parmaxolotl]

Tim: we're not talking about evolution Kent: evolution

[@DapperDinosaur]

Sums up like 50% or more of the debate lol

[@rightsarentpolitical]

@@DapperDinosaur The rest is weird ad hominem attacks on Darwin.. that was awkward and uncomfortable, and this is supposed to be a grown-up.

[@LisaAnn777]

I can't stand Mr Hovind.

[@risky_busine55]

That's it that's literally the whole argument like Kent literally cannot stay on topic, all he knows how to do is insult, lie, and commit crimes (cuz lets not forget that he is a criminal)

[@bobknob2518]

"Also Kent admits he doesn't know what a dinosaur is." But let's be real, we didn't need him to tell us what we already knew.

[@DapperDinosaur]

LOL true

[@vestafreyja]

Let's be honest with Kent he could have stopped at I don't know.

[@DapperDinosaur]

@@vestafreyja Especially since I doubt he ever did any of that research, just like Bill Morgan.

[@bentm99]

I bet Kent has never done real, scientific research in his life.

[@vestafreyja]

@@bentm99 Well when Kent starts and stops at the Bible it is really tough to do any scientific research using actual science publication; or when you use Chick Tracts, Creationist Web sites as your primary source of data it is equally tough. When I was doing scientific research in the 70's to 80's you actually had to head to a library and check the science journals instead have being able to use google to search for you.

[@sahb8091]

I’ve got to echo what others said; your approach was genius. This is the first time I haven’t had to hear the whole 6 definitions of the word evolution crap. He’s proudly done 200 debates, and I’ve seen many of them, and rarely has it been this clear that he doesn’t know what anything is, he was going in circles with his drawing ⭕️ circles line of argumentation. Dr. Dino couldn’t even tell you what animals he would and wouldn’t put in his own park! THIS, this is the debate that needs to be circulated to his followers. He only knows that Triceratops and T-Rex are dinosaurs because those evolutionist scientists have categorised it so; which means he has to accept that birds are classified as such too.

[@DapperDinosaur]

thank you for such high praise

[@purgatoriprytania5382]

48:53 You've got to love how the guy calling himself 'Dr. Dino' doesn't have the first idea about how one might determine whether a skeleton is a dinosaur or not.

[@DapperDinosaur]

That's my favorite part :)

[@tanyanguyen3704]

Cant wait to see this. Im reading comments as i watch! :)

[@EdwardHowton]

To be fair, Kent _does_ have a doctorate in Doesn'tknowjackshitaboutfuckallology. He's just playing to his strengths!

[@jeleeson]

I love that when Kent tries to make fun of the "circle of things" that Birds and Dinosaurs have in common he realizes very quickly he's painting himself into a corner and immediately changes to "things that move."

[@DapperDinosaur]

Lol I know, he's off script at yay point so he has no idea what he's doing

[@Elios0000]

i feel like some one should ask him both a Titanasaur and Compsognathus are both dinosaurs but that comes back to "drdino" cant even define what a dinosaur is...

[@DapperDinosaur]

@@Elios0000 lol that he is no clue what a dinosaur is is the most hilarious thing.

[@JasonHenderson]

He was this close to getting it.

[@morganstiefvater2019]

"Oh, you're saying that just because two things both move means you can categorize them both as moving things?" .... Literally yes? I'm so confused about what he's asking.

[@thylacoleonkennedy7]

The fact that you explained about five times in twenty minutes that you weren't arguing that birds evolved from dinosaurs, just that they have anatomical similarities that group them with dinosaurs and Kent _still_ didn't understand is absolutely incredible.

[@DapperDinosaur]

Kent is basically incapable of listening to his opponent.

[@catpoke9557]

I'm certain he understood. He didn't want the people WATCHING to understand. He just tries to steer people to follow HIS script and even if it doesn't work he continues following the script he had planned. And sadly, it actually works quite often. He's good at turning debates into steaming piles of crap because people fall for his tricks. Luckily, it didn't work this time.

[@LisaAnn777]

He can't go off his script. He isn't smart he's just like a parrot (ironically) and can only repeat what he's heard. He can't come up with new arguments because your average theropod is smarter than him.

[@JCTheSniper15]

Kent is an extremely dishonest interlocutor. It's gotten to the point where I honestly think we should all just refuse to debate him. Now that we have the technology to just do video responses to him and debunk his nonsense that's probably the way to go. He doesn't actually listen to his opponent. He just reads his script and says "that's stupid!" "You're calling God a liar" "I'm incredulous".

[@mathiasrryba]

Kent's argument for why birds aren't dinosaurs: Here look at all the similarities between birds and dinosaurs!

[@DapperDinosaur]

Lol pretty much and also he pretends dinosaurs are lizards.

[@chadzsideg7710]

@@DapperDinosaur so are they of the dinosaur kind, or lizard kind? It seems like he is okay grouping some animals in multiple kinds. Like humming birds, and penguins. They are both a part of the bird kind, but are of their own kind as well? Seems like a terribly inefficient classification system you have there Ken.

[@johnackerman9441]

“This is what they teach in textbooks and I find that criminal.” That’s pretty rich coming from a criminal Kent. Thanks for doing what you do DD, you really are a great science communicator

[@DapperDinosaur]

Thank you so much, and you're welcome!

[@thewillo1317]

Dappers opening statement: birds are dinosaurs, this is true even if they are created Hovinds responding opening statement: I think these similarities are a common creator Yes Kent, he didn't dispute that. Stay 👋On👋Topic

[@DapperDinosaur]

He is fundamentally incapable of doing so.

[@FilipCordas]

"How would you know that a skeleton you find is a dinosaur? Well that is an interesting question have to look into that'. That had me laughing, maybe you should investigate things that you are debating sometimes Kent.

[@DapperDinosaur]

And his website is DrDino.com. I mean come on.

[@FilipCordas]

@@DapperDinosaur Have to say you did an amazing job Kent usually knows how to fake his way in a debate but this was just excellent.

[@DapperDinosaur]

@@FilipCordas Thanks! As far as I know he still hasn't put this one in his list of debates. And I love how defeated he looks after about 35 minutes.

[@gajamukhu]

@@DapperDinosaur You *really* got him there.

[@DapperDinosaur]

@@gajamukhu I know! I love it so much!

[@GlenHovindOfficial]

I love how Dapper Dino start saying that the debate is NOT about evolution... and then Kent can't stop talking about evolution...

[@DapperDinosaur]

He only has one script, and I purposely denied it to him.

[@tanyanguyen3704]

@@DapperDinosaur and that is where you dominate in this. You shifted kents game. He is still saying the same 23 lines, over and over, and you say “and???”

[@DapperDinosaur]

@@tanyanguyen3704 tytt as was the plan.

[@rogeriopinho4855]

Im a Christian And I completely agree that Kent is completely wrong!

[@DapperDinosaur]

Most Christians do!

[@DapperDinosaur]

@Mountain Lion and your evidence is?

[@DapperDinosaur]

@Mountain Lion nothing he has said indicates a turning away from God. Your theology isn't the only one. It's not even the majority in Christianity.

[@zemorph42]

@Mountain Lion Accepting reality doesn't mean rejecting God. If Kent was right, reality would be extremely different.

[@ForgedinPrint]

@Mountain Lion he's talking about the con man, not god. Sorry he doesn't fit your little bubble of what a Christian is but he says he is then he is. No reason for him to lie about that.

[@Raptorworld22]

"The word dinosaur means 'terrible lizard" Yeah and the french word for cotton candy means "Daddy's beard", what's your point kent?

[@DapperDinosaur]

Kent has never met a fallacy he didn't like.

[@xironevarus576]

@@DapperDinosaur I don't know he is preatty sensitive to ad hominem.

[@DapperDinosaur]

@@xironevarus576 Against himself, not against others.

[@EllenL11]

This was painful. Hovind just did not comprehend was the argument was. Parrot and velosiraptor wound both still classify as dinosaurs even if they were in Ganden of Eden.

[@DapperDinosaur]

He's in his own words, "willfully ignorant," "dumb on purpose."

[@jeleeson]

Dino: I'm not arguing whether birds evolved from dinosaurs. I'm just saying they have similar anatomical structures that mean they are both in the same class of animals. Kent: That just means they have similarities! It doesn't mean that birds evolved from dinosaurs! *eyeroll*

[@DapperDinosaur]

It was very frustrating.

[@michaelmccarthy4077]

Even though I watched the original, I've played this on it the background to up your view hours. 🙂

[@DapperDinosaur]

I really appreciate that! Every minute of viewing helps!

[@lucamedugno]

I’m doing this myself.

[@DapperDinosaur]

@@lucamedugno and I appreciate it!

[@Call_Me_Emo1]

@@DapperDinosaur The life cycle of Drosophila orphan genes (Drosophila obscura species group) elifesciences.org/articles/01311/figures I can't post links without a wrench

[@Call_Me_Emo1]

@@DapperDinosaur give me an email address

[@patldennis]

DD "How would you know a dinosaur fossil if you saw one?" *Doctor Dino*-"Oh well that's an interesting question. I guess I'd have to do some research."

[@DapperDinosaur]

My favorite part!

[@smequals]

Yup, after all these years Dr. Dino, we guess you do need to do some research. I loved this part too!!

[@ToastyMcGrath]

"Dr. Dino" apparently never thought to figure out what dinosaurs are...

[@DapperDinosaur]

Lol I know. In all these decades!

[@ParanormalEncyclopedia]

“Dr Dino” apparently never thought.... sums him up pretty well

[@Captain_Gargoyle]

This is so worth re-watching. Hilarious lol The number times Kent fumbles around looking a bit put out with himself before stumbling back to the familiar ground of "this only proves a common designer".

[@DapperDinosaur]

It's one of my few videos even I rewatch.

[@Captain_Gargoyle]

@@DapperDinosaur lol I don't blame you. It's quite satisfying. And I imagine rather illuminating to people who consider Hovind to be a smart debater. This is what he looks like he can't use his script.

[@DapperDinosaur]

@@Captain_Gargoyle yup he goes off script and he's inept.

[@EddyBombay]

I'm very hesitant to give praise that I feel is hyperbolic. That being said this was the most impressive debate against Kent that I've seen since King Crocoduck. I do also believe that you performed better than both Bill Ludlow and Aron Ra. Well done.

[@DapperDinosaur]

Wow, that's some really high praise! Thank you so much! I'm not sure I'd go as far as you did, but I'm quite happy with the debate.

[@EddyBombay]

I'll expound: I believe you did better than Bill because on the numerous attempts that Kent tried to steer the conversation away from what you were actually arguing, you came right back with "that isn't what I'm arguing". Also you pre-empted his tactic of boasting that everything points to God by saying that this information may point to God or Evolution, but it doesn't matter because it still means they're the same group.

[@EddyBombay]

@@DapperDinosaur I believe you did better than Aron because you kept your cool. Plain and simple. Kent went on his irrelevant tirade and you came back with: ok but that's not my argument. Also using the Bible and his own analogies against him really threw a spanner in his gish-gallop machine.

[@EddyBombay]

@@DapperDinosaur Just some points I'd like to give from my years also of watching Kent: He always uses non-living analogies for living things which I believe he deliberately uses to confuse the argument. You did very well in making your analogies as relevant and easy to follow. He will always try and steer back to his script. Another thing you did well was keeping him on topic and using information he doesn't know about. He never updates his information so before you debate him next, try and pre-empt what canned rebuttal he will use and keep a debunk ready. Finally, if he or any theist resorts to threats of damnation or saying "you're calling God a liar" You have effectively come out on top. Sorry for the long messages but like I said, I was super impressed.

[@DapperDinosaur]

@@EddyBombay I see your point :D Thank you!

[@JadeElf]

the fact that Kent said that "he didn't know and would have to look it up" after Dapper asked "if you found a skeleton how would you tell its a dinosaur?" shows he never taught biology lol anyone educated enough to teach biology should understand basic anatomy without looking it up.

[@DapperDinosaur]

I honestly wonder if Kent could name the bones in a dinosaur jaw.

[@JadeElf]

I doubt it lol

[@tanyanguyen3704]

@@DapperDinosaur - he cant even name the bones in a human, or simple types of dinosaurs. :)

[@DapperDinosaur]

@@tanyanguyen3704 no surprise there

[@tanman2000]

3:27 Oh my goodness, somebody finally said it! I'm sure Kent considers crocodiles and snakes as both reptiles despite them not sharing a common ancestor in his view. Another thing: Who's to say God didn't create some "kinds" utilizing genetic material from previously created creatures? After all, isn't that what he did with Eve?

[@DapperDinosaur]

Yup, Creationists don't actually have to reject taxonomy, but they like to anyay.

[@dancurtis8476]

I do enjoy rewatching this - you can see right away that Dapper pulled the rug from underneath Kent, from his uncertain opening statement to his continuous retreat Well done lad, one of my favourite Hovind-Handlings of all time 👍 👊

[@DapperDinosaur]

Thank you so much! I'm really proud of this debate.

[@fuguestate44xx13]

A Hovind-Handling,is that prison slang for what might have happened to Kent when he was locked away for the non-crimes he definitely didn't commit! lol

[@rabbitpirate]

Kent is so fixed on his script that regardless of how many times you say you’re not arguing for evolution he keeps bringing it up. He knows you have a point so keeps bringing up things to derail the conversation onto something he is more comfortable with.

[@DapperDinosaur]

Yup, my whole plan was to make it obvious that he had no clue, and I think I succeeded

[@anyoneandeveryoneexceptyou6788]

"National Pornographic" ~Kent Hovind, 2019

[@DapperDinosaur]

Yeah, it's super cringey each time he does that.

[@John.0z]

I grew up with that journal. It has it's faults. It is not a science journal either, it is intended for a wider audience. But the organisation behind it is undoubtedly financing many quite fundamental science projects - the Leakeys and Leakey snr's three Trimates - Goodall, Fossey and Galdikas. Just to reference one area of science that they support, and I followed for decades. NatGeo may not be perfect, but the magazine is far above the emptiness of Hovind.

[@DapperDinosaur]

@@John.0z Couldn't agree more that Nat Geo is leagues above Hovind. But then that's a low bar. :)

[@John.0z]

@@DapperDinosaur I did meet one of the researchers that appeared often in that journal's pages - George Bass, at the university at College Station, Texas. I had bought one of his books years before, and he signed it for me. George was a very nice man all round, was fascinated to see a paperback printing of his book. It was a great pleasure to meet him, and speak to some of the team.

[@DapperDinosaur]

@@John.0z That's really cool! I can't say I've had any such encounter aside from meeting Bill Ludlow in real life.

[@TranslatorCarminum]

Kent's argument is like saying that a wolf always begets a wolf and will never give birth to a Chihuahua. He has some arbitrary threshold of morphological divergence beyond which he insists that no category is broad enough to justifiably include both of the creatures being compared. Show a five-year-old four pictures: a wolf, a husky, a malamute, and a Chihuahua. Ask him which of those things is not like the others. Chances are pretty good he/she'll pick out the Chihuahua. Now show that same kid a different assortment: the same wolf, the same husky, the same Chihuahua, and a horse. Run the experiment again and watch as, to the surprise of virtually no one, the child selects the horse as the odd one out. Oh, my Sagan! It's almost as if relatedness (be it evolutionary or purely categorical) is actually (*gasp*) a NESTED GRADIENT rather than a strictly binary state! Seriously, though, Kent may as well argue that blue is not a color because it just looks too different from red.

[@DapperDinosaur]

You should see this video I made a few months ago. It's very relevant to your comment :) kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y5TCooWdqsZqsLs

[@nclarke3765]

End of the day, the truth of a message stands firm, always. To kill the messenger won't affect that fact. We all know that the truth hurts sometimes but to not accept that truth harms only those who reject it. To fight against the truth is futile because the truth remains the same come what may. (Paraphrased Biblical message). NAC!!

[@Bezimienny11]

Mate... You hit him HARD. Im around minute 50 and its simply beautiful. Hovind HAD TO constantly keep retreating to bigger and bigger circles, because he knew, he KNEW, that he had to distract you from continuing your point. He had no arguements whatsoever. Amazing job, amazing job.

[@DapperDinosaur]

Thank you, and yeah his constant going to bigger taxa was frustrating.

[@tylerwest719]

I love to see Kent being put in his place by people who know what they are talking about. Kent’s biggest, and perhaps only, strength is his ability to equivocate and derail a topic. Timothy holds Kent on target and exposes how inept Kent is when it comes to science. Can’t wait for another round.

[@DapperDinosaur]

Thank you so much :D

[@NoahCarlcia]

So this discussion is called “Are Birds Dinosaurs.” And Dapper asks Kent how he would know if a skeleton was a dinosaur or not. And Kent responds with “I don’t know. I’d have to do some research on that.” For fucks sake.

[@DapperDinosaur]

Highlight of the debate, by far.

[@lancemill5683]

Kinda funny how birds were around before dinosaurs went extinct lol and they just appeared in large numbers 😂 you guys are seriously brilliant

[@DoktorDeino]

Thanks again for letting me look this over in a stream, Dapper! Hope you enjoy our commentary!

[@DapperDinosaur]

No worries!

[@savannahbroadway2888]

I like to think I'm a pretty non-violent person, but every time Kent mentions Spongebob I just want to violently shake him. A curse of recurrent toe-stubbing on whoever introduced him to Spongebob.

[@DapperDinosaur]

I think it was Standing for Truth.

[@BluePhoenix_]

I hope his pillow is always warm on both sides.

[@paullawtable]

I wish Kunt would read some of the science text books that he has. More importantly, he should try to understand them. Maybe get a four or five year old to explain them to him.

[@DapperDinosaur]

He knows he's being dishonest.

[@rabbitpirate]

DD: so Americans are descended from Europeans Kent: wait, you’re saying Europeans gave birth to Americans. Well who would the first American marry? DD: well there would have been a population of Europeans productions Americans Kent: so now you’re saying there were lots of them doing it at the same time, all these Europeans were giving birth to non Europeans DD: yes, Americans are descended from Europeans Kent: well that’s what you think, but that’s just your imagination

[@DapperDinosaur]

Yup, basically.

[@rightsarentpolitical]

This is a great analogy. Also, I love how apologists use 'faith' and 'religion' as dirty words when that is LITERALLY their entire foundation. "Oh you just have FAITH" "Well, Dapper, I wish you had faith in Jesus Christ". /double face palm

[@InsekiJisatsu]

I'm only 16 minutes in and you can tell that Kent didn't listen for a second. All you said leading up to that point was that Birds are Dinosaurs, regardless of whether it was from evolution or not. And immediately, Kent starts bashing evolution. The man is clueless.

[@DapperDinosaur]

He is allergic to going off of his silly script. He barely even noticed what I was saying until like half way through.

[@daverobson3084]

To use Kent's favorite scale for making determinations, even a 2 year old ( sometimes he uses 5 year old) would have figured out, after being told 10+ times, that Dapper Dino WAS NOT arguing for evolution here. But Kent didn't. Ergo, Kent is not as smart as a 2 year old.

[@DapperDinosaur]

But we already knew that :)

[@risky_busine55]

It is painful seeing a well structured, thorough and properly researched argument which includes both the specific evidence that would disprove the argument of it existed, but also a disclaimer of what is specifically not being argued and then seeing that responded to with a tirade arguing against the points that DD specifically went out of his way to highlight that he wasn't making in this debate. Just wow.

[@DapperDinosaur]

Kent is incapable of thinking in any way beyond his script. I knew that going in.

[@risky_busine55]

@@DapperDinosaur your patience despite that is astounding

[@ajscuell7155]

"The first bird - who did it marry?" Kent with his vast knowledge of the mechanisms of population genetics. The mind boggles as to why Hovind thinks some people take him seriously.

[@DapperDinosaur]

They take him seriously because he says things they want to believe.

[@ajscuell7155]

@@DapperDinosaur He is in the category of professional liar, surely. Hovind knows the things he says are absurd, right? It's a scam with the objective being both financial and massaging his gargantuan ego rather than "spreading God's word" as he pretends. Do you think there is a shred of honesty about the man, or is he laughing all the way to the bank?

[@6UAXINIM9]

"... In a court of Law..." Knowing his prison record and his denial of guilt, his fixation on Courts of Law are hilarious...

[@DapperDinosaur]

And that his most recent case was tossed out with prejudice.

[@jeleeson]

You'll notice he always says an "honest" court of law, by which he means "a court that agrees with me."

[@joshdoz9234]

All Birds are Dinosaurs but not all Dinosaurs were Birds.

[@DapperDinosaur]

exactly

[@morganstiefvater2019]

Listening to Kent always makes my brain feel like it's going to explode.

[@DapperDinosaur]

Hopefully my utterances alleviated that problem.

[@GlenHovindOfficial]

At the end, when talking about the first bird and with whom it reproduced... a very common analogy that I think is very useful and probably you know already, is the language analogy. If Italian comes from Latin, whom did the first Italian speaker talk with? Where did they found someone to communicate in a see of Latin speakers?

[@DapperDinosaur]

Yeah I wish I had remembered that.

[@GlenHovindOfficial]

@@DapperDinosaur Either way, you are the best rival Hoving has had in these debates, you could clearly see he didn't know where to hide

[@tanyanguyen3704]

I have no idea why im torturing myself rewatching this, except that you lay out, perhaps most clearly in this video than any others, exactly what a dinosaur is, and what a bird is. At fifty, i love learning this. In my school, no one thought birds were dinos much less reptiles. (We did not once talk about clades, either). But im 1/2 in (again), you aks the key “ok, you tell me what birds are” he says “ill have to research” then pulls out ARGUMENT BY DEFINITION. Arrugh. Seriously, how did you not throw the screen across the room. Yes, we also call a wolf spider a wolf spider. Is it a wolf? Cries silently for the brain cells you lost on this day.

[@DapperDinosaur]

Patience is my superpower. I acquired it while being mentally and physically abused in the military. Fun times. But yeah that's honestly what it comes down to. I learned to deal with basically anything by just not reacting.

[@tanyanguyen3704]

@@DapperDinosaur that does not make me happy for you. Sighs. I gain more respect for you each month i find more things to learn from you, and about you! Keep teaching.

[@DapperDinosaur]

@@tanyanguyen3704 I'm really glad you're enjoying the content, and hey I have it better than a LOT of veterans.

[@ninagadsdon8414]

I have no idea how you manage to remain so calm, but I am very glad you do. Mr Hovind's arguments have more holes than Swiss cheese, and you just kept calmly pointing to them. Excellent stuff.

[@DapperDinosaur]

I was in the navy. It made me extremely patient.

[@ninagadsdon8414]

@@DapperDinosaur my cousin's the same, calm, patient and an all round good egg

[@DapperDinosaur]

@@ninagadsdon8414 umm I'm not your cousin an I? I have a lot.

[@ninagadsdon8414]

@@DapperDinosaur I have a step brother with your name, but no cousins. Sadly.

[@DapperDinosaur]

@@ninagadsdon8414 oh well. It wouldn't have been the first time I accidentally ran into a cousin without knowing it though.

[@KunouNoHana]

I hate that Hovind demands he be allowed to call everyone he debates their given first name. Its very clearly a power play every single time he says "Timothy". Its not about calling you your name, its just about his superiority complex.

[@DapperDinosaur]

You are probably right. But it wasn't worth it to me to correct him.

[@bariumselenided5152]

Idk if it's just because of the way I feel about internet culture, but it seems so deeply disrespectful to me. I have a friend who insists on bugging anyone he makes friends with in online games for their irl names, and it's so weird to be around. For one, that's private information and it's rude to dig for that imo. For two, they chose their username, they didn't choose their name in all likelihood. Their username tells you far more about them. For three, their username is what they want you to call them, so calling them anything else is like somebody introducing themselves as X and you calling them Y over and over. Baffling why anyone would try to do it. Although my friend unfortunately has some narcissistic tendencies not unlike Kent, so it may well be a symptom of that

[@petrkinkal1509]

Bat is mammal. Bird is dinosaur. What in the name of holy bone is hard to understand there.

[@DapperDinosaur]

I do not know.

[@daverobson3084]

Kent Hovind. King of the nonsensical analogy.

[@DapperDinosaur]

No lies detected.

[@Captain_Gargoyle]

It's _so_ hard for Kent to get off his evolution script. You can see him struggling to do it but he keeps falling back into it. It may be projecting but i think i can see on his face when he realizes what he's saying about animas being created has nothing to do with what you're saying.

[@DapperDinosaur]

Even after he finally got it he never could stay completely off script.

[@Captain_Gargoyle]

@@DapperDinosaur Well he's been following the same rails for decades. Gotta be hard to jump the tracks even if they're leading you somewhere irrelevant lol

[@DapperDinosaur]

@@Captain_Gargoyle haha so true

[@Captain_Gargoyle]

@@DapperDinosaur I mean, I'm not into video titles along the lines of X DESTROYS Y but damn...let's just say Kent is not giving us that shit eating grin as often as he usually does lol

[@DapperDinosaur]

@@Captain_Gargoyle lol no he is not.

[@Goober353]

"You’re calling Jesus a liar. You may regret that one day." Is oddly threatening lmao

[@DapperDinosaur]

And I'm sure that was his intent.

[@johnbrinsmead3316]

listening this again, im once again blown away by the way Kent sticks to his script to the point where it's obvious he's not even pretending to be engaged in the actual debate or topic at hand.

[@DapperDinosaur]

Is say he's just senile, but he's been doing that for decades.

[@DavoidJohnson]

Kent has lying down to a fine art. He ain't gonna change because that's how he makes his money.

[@DapperDinosaur]

You are correct

[@masterkey2554]

proof birds are dinosaurs: their feet and upright bipedal stance isnt it bizzare how somewhat "close?" cousins, birds and pterosaurs evolved flight seperately with different methods?

[@DapperDinosaur]

That separate evolution of flight in ornithodira is a really awesome example of convergent evolution.

[@grrsss8335]

I like how nothing kent says refutes any of what you said.

[@DapperDinosaur]

Yup, once he's off script he is head empty no thoughts.

[@karsonpetry6363]

this mans whole debate strategy was just yelling about automobiles every 5 minutes

[@DapperDinosaur]

More or less, yes. LOL

[@ReedBetweenTheLines]

You and I are taking a very similar approach in our debates. I go into my debates allowing for the possibility that creationism is 100% correct and that evolution is 100% wrong. Even with the above assumption, evolution has real-world applications that we take for granted every day while creationism has none.

[@DapperDinosaur]

Tony I'm honored you're watching! I agree I dare your debate with Hovind and thought the same :)

[@rogeriopinho4855]

Kent: has a misunderstanding of evolution Everyone: roasts Kent Everyone when the see Dapper Dino: "time for Some..." Me when I see Dapper Dino: "AWESOME GENIUSSSSSSSSSS!"

[@DapperDinosaur]

Lol thanks

[@Captain_Gargoyle]

Just a really great job, Dapper. Love your debate style....concise and ironclad in undisputable evidence.

[@DapperDinosaur]

Thank you do much!

[@pacman5698]

The biggest question here is that according to Kent...what DOES constitute similar skeletal structure meaning animals are in a same group or "kind" to him. It's pretty damn clear that birds share every defining characteristic in their skeletal structure as therapod dinosaurs do, so even of we were to accept Kent's idea that everything about his 6k year old creation story is true, that would simply mean God created a special "kind" of dinosaur which we now recognize as the bird. What does Kent accept as skeletal structure showing two "kinds" of animals are in a larger "kind"? Does he only think animals can be related if they can interbreed? If so then that would mean he doesn't think that basic related groups of animals such as birds, amphibians, reptiles, or even mammals exist. As many people have stated, "kind" is just whatever Kent wants ot to be when he needs to refute evolutionary theory.

[@DapperDinosaur]

He has no articulable criteria for kinds or anything else in taxonomy. He chooses not to think about it.

[@charliemclean6382]

I really wish he'd stop calling Darwin "Charlie"

[@DapperDinosaur]

He's an extremely disrespectful person, so he won't.

[@charliemclean6382]

@@DapperDinosaur I appreciate this video because the only way I can listen to a knobhead like him is with a friendly voice like yours responding to every piece of nonsense that falls out of his face. Love ya Dapper, you're the best-dressed bird cousin I know.

[@MattBenicFlintZA]

You have incredible patience. I would be table-flipping at his refusal to acknowledge/understand the distinction between what you’re arguing and what he’s arguing against.

[@DapperDinosaur]

Patience is my super power.

[@biuuuwulf6975]

59:00 "Is it possible to have a scrambling of the dna and produce an offspring that is not capable of living?" Yes, Kent, that's called a birth defect.

[@DapperDinosaur]

Yeah, he's not the sharpest tool in the shed.

[@PurpleRhymesWithOrange]

He's in a room full of science textbooks, but has he read any of them?

[@DapperDinosaur]

Not as far as I can tell

[@MartTLS]

He hasn’t finished colouring them in yet.

[@thewillo1317]

Kent really hates Darwin, must have made him look silly when they went to school together

[@DapperDinosaur]

Yeah he makes things up about Darwin, and I just don't know why.

[@thewillo1317]

He just makes things up full stop. Your opening statement couldn't have been more clear, "birds are dinosaurs independent of miraculous creation or evolution" and yet his immediate response was just his normal script as if he didn't even listen. He'd be a meme if he didn't threaten the education of the children who taught via his videos

[@ToumaitheMioceneApe]

Though I mostly work in anthropology, and teach at a museum about it, I still love your content about dinosaurs and birds etc. because it’s still so fascinating. Though I’m technically allowed to teach about dinosaurs, and have access to the related teaching fossils and replicas, I chose not to since I’m less experienced. Your content is making me want to look more into this subject and educate others. Until I get more confident in my teaching ability though, I think I’m going to stick with my hominin replicas.

[@DapperDinosaur]

Hominins are super cool too!

[@jeleeson]

Dino: Birds are dinosaurs, and here's why based solely on anatomy. This could mean the evolution is correct. It could also mean that God created Birds as part of the Dinosaur kind. Regardless, anatomy proves I'm right." Kent: well golly, all you've proven is that there's a common designer! Dino: (I hope - just getting to Kent's opening set of lies) "Yeah, I know. I said that's a perfectly reasonable explaination from your perspective, but it doesn't disprove the anatomical evidence that Birds are part of the Dinosaur "Kind".

[@DapperDinosaur]

Add Kent: I don't know what a dinosaur is. And that's basically the whole debate in a nutshell.

[@samuelbedsole5089]

Not believing that birds are grouped in with dinosaurs seems to be the same as not believing ths Tasmanian tiger was a marsupial. While tasmanian tigers look almost nothing like other marsupials, and appear more feline like than anything, they have features that make it a marsupial. Likewise birds have features that would group it as a dinosaur despite them looking wildly different from the likes of T-rex or stegosaur. To use his automobile analogy we can see similar features that would group one vehicle as a Ford and another as a Toyota. Likewise we use features to group a bird as a theropod dinosaurs. Whether or not evolution is true is not the question here, Kent seems to be unable to, or unwilling to, understand this. I only have a basic understanding of biology and *I* can grasp this concept!

[@DapperDinosaur]

Yup I picked the topic specifically because I knew he'd be unable to deal with it.

[@samuelbedsole5089]

@@DapperDinosaur You cheeky devil, you. I look forward to see what you bring to the table next time you debate him, assuming there is a next time.

[@shananabark]

I just don't think Kent understands taxonomy at all

[@DapperDinosaur]

He makes it his business to TRY not to understand it.

[@smequals]

This wasn't a debate. This was a dinosaur class, with Dapper Dino teaching Kent "Dr. Dino" what dinosaurs and birds are. And Kent being pretty much the worst student ever, but still got schooled. When Dr. Dino's main argument was "these ideas are stupid" and "The Bible says...", it stopped being a debate. This is Kent Hovind completely outclassed and trying so hard to cling to his 40 year old script, yet showing that he has never learned a thing about biology or science. Dapper Dino did a great job putting Kent in the position where he is totally exposed. Fun facts: Dr. Dino is neither a real doctor nor a real dino. Dapper Dino is both dapper and perhaps not a real dino, but at least knows and understands what dinosaurs are. And that was the debate. Well done Dapper Dino!! Well done!!

[@DapperDinosaur]

Thank you! I cannot confirm or deny if I am a real dinosaur.

[@CryptidGrimm]

Great debate, you did an awesome job using facts and observations to disprove what he said before he even said it. Although i believe in a god you cannot argue with facts, they trump opinions. On a random nitpick, when he mentioned humming birds having teeth I thought to myself, but they do not, they're attached to their beak, which they have evolved to use when fighting for flowers, as the sharper beaks provide for them with more food. Great video Timothy!

[@DapperDinosaur]

Thanks, and I don't think you have to not believe in a god to accept evolution. Also, I did address the beak serration/teeth thing.

[@Bathawk23]

Has Kent ever seen a highland cow give birth to a Texas longhorn?

[@DapperDinosaur]

I very much doubt it.

[@SnakeWasRight]

Why do creationists think taxonomy is done with a single trait?

[@DapperDinosaur]

Because if that were true it'd make their arguments better.

[@EddyBombay]

Because Pokemon is a documentary, apparently.

[@DapperDinosaur]

@@EddyBombay Wait, isn't it?

[@SnakeWasRight]

@@DapperDinosaur yeah. It's hard to tell if they actually believe it or they're just being deceitful or they trick themselves into being lazy just because its easier.

[@SnakeWasRight]

@@EddyBombay pokemon just want to sin, that's why they evolve so much

[@mtbee9641]

So if you showed Kent different unlabeled skeletons of a duck, ostrich, penguin. Owl and a small Theropod dinosaur, how would Kent separate them into their different ‘kinds’?

[@DapperDinosaur]

He'd probably say each is in its own kind and not offer any real explanation.

[@mtbee9641]

I also wonder what Kent would say about the large variation of the number of chromosomes in different butterfly species when they are 'obviously' the same 'kind' of creature.

[@ToastyMcGrath]

As usual, Kent ignored everything Timothy said and just waited for his turn to recite his usual spiel.

[@DapperDinosaur]

I expected it.

[@fuguestate44xx13]

At the very end when you are talking about the first bird/bird population Kents questions gave me the impression that he thought the small group of birds had all had the same mutations around the same time.Have i understood him correctly??? It's just if this is the case then Kent isn't just playing stupid he really is stupid when it comes to evolution.Your ability to remain calm and collected is very impressive when talking to these fools.Sticking to the pertinent facts and not letting him waylay you was awesome.Well done!

[@DapperDinosaur]

I honestly think he was just dissembling. I'm not sure he has any coherent notion about what's going on in the evolution of a new clade. Also thanks, yeah I have well practiced patience. :)

[@ALLoam-eg3pw]

I think this discussion shows most clearly and plainly the absolute obstinateness of Hovind. Congradulations to you Dapper Dino for have such a clear and concise point with as much flexability that anyone halfway reasonable or acting with good faith could acknowledge without feeling they betray their convictions.

[@DapperDinosaur]

Thank you! It's greatly appreciated.

[@ALLoam-eg3pw]

@Dapper Dinosaur recently found this dark alleyway of KZbin and am enjoying/cursing this sphere.

[@DapperDinosaur]

@@ALLoam-eg3pw lol I know EXACTLY what you mean! BTW I go live Tuesdays at 6pm MST and Saturdays at noon MST, come say hi!

[@rexon31]

He forgets that animals shaped by the environment so a species would change as a group at the same time.

[@DapperDinosaur]

Does he forget or willfully ignore it?

[@casualsleepingdragon8501]

According to kent his kids should be exact clones of himself After all "dogs produce dogs" so Kent Hovinds should produce Kent Hovinds

[@DapperDinosaur]

LOL that would be horrifying.

[@secularidiot9052]

​@@DapperDinosaur Now I'm imagining an entire room full of Kent Hovinds all repeating the same script ad nauseum

[@BluePhoenix_]

​@@secularidiot9052remembers me of the family guy Episode, in which Peters dozens of children come to his home (he donated sperm) and all look exactly like him, even the girls.

[@tristancoetzee6059]

This guy just said that we have 2 eyes for binocular vision whilst also JUST mentioning that some animals don't have them on the front of their head? Damn this is 3 years old too im petty 🤣

[@DapperDinosaur]

He's very dumb, and worth being pretty to. He's also since been convicted of domestic violence against my friend Cindi Lincoln.

[@DavoidJohnson]

Had to laugh at 1:04:40 where Kent says "you'd think that a router could fix it's self " That's exactly what it did by re-booting. Show me a bird that can do that.

[@katinapac-baez5083]

This was beautifully done on your part Daper. I get so sick of Hovind's dad joke condescension and it was great to listen to you tear his "arguments" apart.

[@DapperDinosaur]

Than you! I'm quite proud of this debate.

[@alexm2404]

Timothy made it clear that they will not debate evolution or creationisms, but if birds are dinosaurs, for which Timothy provided compelling and sufficient evidence. Kent played hid old record - dogs produce dogs, or whatever...

[@DapperDinosaur]

I think I did a decent job getting him off his usual script after the opening though.

[@alexm2404]

@@DapperDinosaur You were great. It was another school day for KH :)

[@DapperDinosaur]

@@alexm2404 Thanks :) I may be debating him again in January.

[@threetythreepercent]

If Kent thought evolution hinged on the sky being blue he would argue that it wasn’t.

[@DapperDinosaur]

Yes he would

[@ulfhazelcreek8108]

Went at this one late, but man I can’t get through Hovinds BS, and knowing what he has done makes it even harder. No knocking Dapper though, to be clear. Well presented, calm, correct and clearly communicated.

[@DapperDinosaur]

Oh I didn't know about all his horrible behavior when I did this. If I had I probably wouldn't have spoken to him.

[@ALLoam-eg3pw]

Also love the slip where he almost said he doesn't have enough faith but had to quickly change to saying "it's misplaced" 😂

[@DapperDinosaur]

Lol he's so bad at this, isn't he?

[@js1423]

Congratulations on reaching 10 000 views on this one!

[@DapperDinosaur]

🎉 Thanks!

[@bariumselenided5152]

How anyone can stomach to talk to this guy, let alone debate him, is beyond me. This whole thing was like one of those "But it's not my wallet" memes

[@DapperDinosaur]

Oh that's easy, years of psychological abuse in the military made me very patient.

[@hughjarrse]

How can you have any kind of scientific debate with someone who says "as it says on the bible"?

[@DapperDinosaur]

You kind of pretend he's not there in your opening

[@gandry501]

“NUH-UH!” Ten points to Hovindor!

[@DapperDinosaur]

Lol

[@katamas832]

Dapper: Quite explicitly says he does not argue in this debate that all birds share a common ancestor Kent: Birds never came from dinosaurs (which presupposes the common ancestor of all birds are dinosaurs) I just found this so amusing, Kent does not listen. But why would he, he's not interested in a debate, he's here to lie off of a script

[@DapperDinosaur]

Yup, I picked the debate proposition and my tactics specifically to throw him off script, because once he's off his complete ignorance of basically everything is on full display.

[@katamas832]

@@DapperDinosaur Absolutely, and I love how desperate he is by trying to derail the conversation to Evolution every chance he gets to talk lol.

[@DapperDinosaur]

@@katamas832 and I wait until he's thoroughly down to be inept before I allow it at all.

[@sciencenerd7639]

58:04 it sounds like Kent started to say yes sir and then changed his mind about the sir

[@DapperDinosaur]

He can't grant me an honorific, like that.

[@BanjoRomo]

You did great here dapper. I loved your clear opening where you stated your point. It's a shame that Kent can't have a focused civil discussion on one topic without reverting back to his nasty condescending script. If he would just shelf his presuppositions for a moment, he could have learned something here. It clearly shows that he is not inspired by nature or motivated by a love of learning, because he doesn't care to learn more. He just wants to know enough to feel confident in arguing and so he stopped learning a long time ago.. He just loves arguing.

[@DapperDinosaur]

He thinks he knows all that matters, so why learn?

[@zhuting2795]

Going through the Dapper Dinosaur backlog, and hoo boy..... It's been a while since I've heard Hovind's script. It's incredible how it doesn't change, regardless of the topic. Even down to the "[opponent], I don't know how you can't see that." Lol. Incredible.

[@DapperDinosaur]

That's why I designed this specifically to negate that script as much as possible!

[@zhuting2795]

@@DapperDinosaur It was awesome to see! Evolution has been a passion of mine since I was young, and as I gained access to more in depth classes and resources, the passion I felt as a kid turned into pure awe. I'm so glad there are competent folks like you and so many others on this platform standing up to these goobers and helping ignite interest in real science.

[@DapperDinosaur]

​@@zhuting2795that really means a lot

[@sunix6551]

This debate was settled during the first few minutes, after it was a reiteration of the same conclusion: anatomical similarity is not proof of ancestry (that argument works for creationism just as well). Now if you could only map the dna of a dinosaur ancestor and compare it to a modern day bird and reveal where, when and how did the changes in the nucleotides of he dna took place...oh well, there is still imagination to cling to.

[@DapperDinosaur]

Unfortunately, we'll probably never get non-avian dinosaur DNA

[@xironevarus576]

@@DapperDinosaur we may get lucky. Thanks to global warming we are getting access to both of the polls. We may be able to find some lineage that may have hid at the edges of the earth. Probably not. But wishful speculation

[@DapperDinosaur]

@@xironevarus576 I guess I can't say that's 100% impossible, but I definitely won't hide my breath. :)

[@Elderbch]

This is only the second time I’ve heard Kent speak and both times he spoke with a level of condescension that just has no place in polite scientific debate. I don’t care for the man. Dapper was very professional. It must be very difficult to have a rational discussion with a man who debates like it’s some grade school kids having a playground squabble. Notice how Dapper kept trying to be respectful and not dismissive of Kent’s beliefs, while Kent just kept implying (or out right saying) that Dapper is stupid. Throwing smug insults at one’s opponent does not a case make, Kent.

[@DapperDinosaur]

Goodness if you want to see just how awful he really can be I'd suggest watching this interview with Cindi, his 3rd ex wife. kzbin.info/www/bejne/qpS0ZmWbpqenpNU

[@borttorbbq2556]

I had the right this thing like five times because it just gets too long. Basically it's funny that Ken is trying to do his normal talking point even though you basically granted them all except that birds are taxonomically the same kind as dinosaurs.

[@borttorbbq2556]

Still doing his usual stick

[@DapperDinosaur]

@@borttorbbq2556 to Yup I knew that he couldn't sound smart and go off script, so I made sure his script was already irrelevant going in.

[@borttorbbq2556]

@@DapperDinosaur I mean to be fair he doesn't sound very smart when he can use his script anyways. And this just makes it even more obvious that he really is just using the same debunked and worthless arguments because yeah all his arguments were irrelevant. More than usual