Are Buffet Clarinet Mouthpieces (Chedevilles) good? Or: Facing vs Material

Okay, most stock Buffet mouthpieces from the 60's and before were Chedevilles. But, were they any good?
...no; or, at least, not most of them. Sometimes you find a really great one that has a nice H-frame, or mild A-frame. Generally, these mouthpieces still need to be refaced to be a their best.
But...it begs the question, how objectively important is the material of a mouthpiece?

[@floridaclarinetstudio2338]

BRAVO Dale! Thank you once again for letting us experience your sound which in turn FORCES us to LISTEN, HEAR and ANALYZE our own! :) Bravo!

[@JoeTigheOnline]

Great sounds.

[@super20dan]

dale-what are your thoughts on charles bay mpcs? would love a vid on these.

[@patrickmaples1147]

Makes me want to pull out the buffet mouthpieces I had refaced. One by McClune and I believe another one by Brad Behn. I always was flat on the M13 lyre. I had one shortened before this pandemic. Maybe I will see if it fixed anything with that mouthpiece. Agree, there is more to a mouthpiece than facing.

[@DaleFedele]

It's interesting, you probably know this, but McClune's newest line is based off a really fine Buffet Ched! He had a bunch of them and one was very fine and had it scanned and 3D printed, and then he finishes them...at least I believe that's what he told me. I'm also sure the one Brad did was really great! I need to send him one sometime! It's funny about the 13 series, I had major trouble biting when I was in undergrad. I used xylactin to numb my bottom lip, and I eventually bit through. I got what I think is a pretty incredible sound for an undergrad, but at what cost? If only I had one lesson with my future self, I could have prevented so much pain...also with palatial leaking (I had a major rupture), a small hernia of my diaphragm...I don't mean to complain about this, but I do believe the lower pitch and poorly resonating material on some of these mouthpieces contributes to this. Obviously I still have a lot more research to do here (especially medically-focused), but I hope eventually I can help more people not get so stressed out and cause physical and mental harm when they play.

[@patrickmaples1147]

I could see how that would be a problem. I have a resonate sound that some people thought was bright for my job. I was playing on a M30 Lyre 13 and got pretty good results, but always had a sore embouchure afterwards. It also doesn't help when you play Sousa marches for 30 minutes or 45 minutes which tends to task brass players. It was a struggle to stay up in pitch. I switched back to my Behn and no trouble since. Plenty of people sound fine on Vandoren, but in the end, not my cup of tea.

[@Riedel777]

Txs

[@jimis3167]

Today's orchestras will probably like the type of sound you get with the M13 and dislike the type of sound you get with the Buffets. It's that bad situation.

[@ibrokemyfingerbowlin]

That Henri Ched makes your mic struggle. The M13 just sounds small.

[@DaleFedele]

Thank you, David! I love your videos. I agree about the M13. I played on an M14 for eleven years. After four years on it, I developed issues with my soft palate. Then I switched to stronger reeds in an attempt to stop manipulation in my throat...and to get more sound. And then I herniated my diaphragm! It didn't help that I was playing in a very dead environment the entire time, and yet still needed a very big sound. I'm still trying to figure it out! ...and also, look out for my students, and some colleagues, in the process. I understand that the problems I encountered may have been heavily influenced by my physiology, but I also think it was due to a disconnect between my concept (what I expected myself to be able to achieve) and the equipment I was on (that I was told to simply learn how to make it work). Some day, I almost think I have a form of dystonia, in terms of voicing/what I used to be able to do. Or, some other form of damage. But I also realize the contextual differences between jobs, and the level of volume & projection I'm expected to produce now. I'm sorry to write so much, but I'm always looking for any solutions here you might have!

[@ibrokemyfingerbowlin]

@@DaleFedele I've played nearly every mouthpiece out there, even dozens of my own that I refaced. I once slapped on an M14 at a rehearsal and the sound was HUGE. I liked that part but eventually shelved it because I thought it was too bright. At the time I was going for the darkest sound possible. I've played an M13 Lyre with a Vandoren traditional 3.5 for many years now and when I heard you play it on this video, it sounded very familiar. Not bad at all, but just a solid regular clarinet sound. The Cheds really do project differently. The last few years I've gone back and forth between a BD5 and the M13 Lyre, two very different mouthpieces. I played the BD5 on my Army Band audition knowing that the more diffused sound it makes would be more popular, but that isn't the kind of sound I prefer. When I've had to play something for real, I pull out the M13L. Last week on a whim, I bought Brad Behn's new Prescott mouthpiece, the closed version. OMG this thing is incredible! It is an effortless mouthpiece that rings for days. If you haven't tried Brad's mouthpieces, I recommend you do. If you like that ringing sound of the old days, then Brad's mouthpieces are where to look. I played one of his vintage models for a while before I joined the Army and did a few concerts on it. That particular mouthpiece was just to live and buzzy for me, but holy crap! did it project! I like the recordings I made on it, but it just wasn't something that worked for me long term. I sold it. Now I have that Prescott, and I'm pretty certain the M13 and the BD5 are finished for me. I'll record something on it this week if I can find the time, some etude... I love playing those!

[@randyrandy3733]

Henry Chedeville

[@enriquelasansky4412]

I have a Buffet mouthpiece that came with my clarinet I bought around 1982. The logo is the regular Buffet logo. On the side there is a C followed by a crown. I’m guessing this is not a Chedeville mouthpiece, right?

[@DaleFedele]

That is a B-stock chedeville, most likely! Probably has a very wide internal throat, and probably has a medium-open-to-open facing that is asymmetrical. It probably has a great 'glow' of the sound even though the facing might not be great for classical playing. Am I correct in my guesses?

[@enriquelasansky4412]

Dale Fedele Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately, even though I’ve played for a long time, my knowledge of mouthpieces is rudimentary. I own about 30 of them, including a Kasper (not a Cicero or Ann Arbor) and some other old ones. I think the parameters you’ve described in this Buffet mouthpiece are correct to the best of my ability. I had never attempted to play this mouthpiece in my entire life. I had no idea Buffets came with Chedevilles at one point. My first teacher, years ago, told me Buffet mouthpieces were worthless and that I should get a Selmer asap. Eventually I ended up studying with A. Gigliotti and consequently have played close facings ever since. I could barely get a decent sound out of this Buffet, It probably takes a number 2 reed or something like that. Do you think it’s worth having it refaced?Thanks.

[@anneharpercodown]

@@DaleFedele I have one with one stripe up top and three below, a C on the side but no crown. It plays pretty well but is a little tight in places, wondering if it might be worth having it looked at - is the C alone indicative of the Chedeville blank? Thanks for your videos!

[@anneharpercodown]

Oh - on the opposite side to the C in tiny letters it says FRANCE - but I don't know if all Buffets have this...

[@jordan-c-bay]

I thought I would reply in case anyone wanted more info about these “C Crown” pieces. I bought a Buffet alto sax with one of these still rattling around in the case, original to the horn. The facing wasn’t great, but I refaced it myself just out of curiosity and it has turned into the best alto sax mouthpiece I have ever played by quite a huge margin. It has similar qualities compared to other alto pieces as Dale has demonstrated in this video… I have played well over 50 alto sax pieces over the years, and owned at least ten. This one takes the cake with none other even close, which was a massive surprise as I was always told “Buffet mouthpieces are junk.” Bogus! I can’t tell you whether to have your refaced, but I will say I bought a cheap “C Crown” clarinet piece at auction in the hopes I can get the same qualities out of it as I have from this alto piece. So, in my opinion, yes these can be excellent.

[@TheGuiBat1]

Do you have Zinner mouthpieces? Could you make a video about them?

[@DaleFedele]

I will do that! Thank you for the suggestion.

[@zebrobson2639]

I have a Evette master that has it's original mpc and a I.N. Gennusa G*1 which I believe was a zinner blank, so I was just wondering the same thing after watching this!