Are Ceramic Bearings Overrated?

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#cycling #bikes #bicycle

[@Jacob99174]

Like marketing’s use of “aerospace grade aluminum” for my jacket’s zipper? 😂

[@wokex]

but just imagine how well it will zip up and down when you're in space

[@davidburgess741]

Made of surgical stainless steel comes to mind. Mindless marketing.

[@TrickyTree84]

NTN. Stainless steal. Full contact seals. Ceramic bearings don't last. The race gets wrecked by the harder ceramic balls

[@Ergustavinho]

The SEALS hahahaha i pissed my pants ! HAHAH

[@tommays56]

Ceramic was developed for high speed life NOT the low speed of bicycles

[@JohnnyRabbitQC]

Exactly and they don't resist to shocks. And by the way Enduro bearing are shiet.

[@pedwah]

In my experience, ceramic hub bearings can be prone to brinelling the races when used on poor road surfaces (ie all of the UK) 😢

[@lynxg4641]

Absolutely, 100% agree, ceramic for the avg person is definitely a waste. Don't think Enduro had the special SS finish/coating when I tried the ceramic BB in 2005, it died the same as the others during the wet season and lack of maintenance, as I thought I wouldn't need to be doing as much as with normal ones, water ingressed and caused rust on the races, they got pitted and bam, done.

[@josh33172]

Ceramic is harder than steel and dissipates heat better. Nothing on a bike spins fast enough to generate the heat to require ceramic. The corrosion and contamination aspect is what kills ceramic faster than anything, and they generally have worse seals to lower the resistance.

[@user-od7hh8qg9d]

Harder always means more fragile. Meaning, they'll be smashed after some time.

[@singletrack4614]

At my old job, we had a machine that used ceramic bearings. One day we took one of the ceramic balls out of the bearing and tried to smash it with a sledge hammer. Long story short, the ceramic ball ended up denting the sledge hammer, and it also made a divot in the steel table it was sitting on. It took several over head swings before the ceramic ball finally broke.

[@deanf2259]

Ceramic bearings are for ultra high speed rotation applications, 100,000 revs per minute of shafts. Cycling is a very low speed rotation. So using Ceramic bearings on bikes is the incorrect application. So pointless.

[@seahorserider33]

"1 Watt.. that would double both our FTPs" Hahahaha 😂

[@_cpdchua]

Emily bit with the SEALS hahahahahahahaha

[@vaporizer82]

Please show any data that says a ceramic bearing has any meaningful increase in lifespan being used on bicycles in real world applications. ANY

[@br5380]

I've a ceramic bearing Hope bottom bracket in my Cotic MTB, originally bought back in 2006 for my Specialised S-Works Enduro and been moved across many bikes over the years - still spins freely.

[@adaycj]

Hope has enough sense to use good seals in their BB.

[@krzysiu4003]

Even standard Hope bottom brackets last forever.

[@roymendez6615]

A Enve sale rep told me if I don’t use the approved rim tape for tubless that would void the wheel warranty

[@richardggeorge]

Fark enve. They wonder why people are turning to Chinese brands (my tubeless rims have no spoke holes and hence no tape required)

[@davidburgess741]

I don't Envy you!

[@psychoal1967]

The cage wears in ceramic bearing (and the races also). Riveted steel cages in steel bearings give best life.

[@petersouthernboy6327]

Ceramic is meant for very high rpm’s under dry conditions. Think drones. There is zero *performance* advantage to ceramic turning 300 rpm. The quality of the ball and race and seal and grease are more important to harmonics and resistance.

[@bchearne]

Not to mention, your bearings won’t meaningfully affect bike speed unless they are defective. Even if they were slightly better, it wouldn’t be enough to matter. Speed is definitely not the issue here, only durability

[@petersouthernboy6327]

@@bchearne well stated

[@BlueMoonday19]

Ceramic bearings are not just for the Dave Brailsford fans. There's also the Gucci crowd, who I suspect are the real target audience, as with so much of the industry's high end products.

[@adrianbotting6015]

Please from an engineer ceramic bearings are for high speed low load cases, not cycling. Used in n the food industry.

[@foxy1706]

Can we get view on seat masts.... limit bike future saleability and options to change

[@bchearne]

I assume the ceramic material doesn’t have good tensile strength, which would explain why it isn’t suitable for the bearing race

[@yonglingng5640]

Ceramic is also harder than steel, that's why their bearing races wear out faster than steel bearings.

[@PorscheCaymanB]

Honestly, I'm getting some because they're a cool color! If I want to gain speed, I'll lose another pound.

[@razorree]

well.... set of CeramicSpeed bearings for my roval wheels is ONLY 775eur ! it's a steal ! take my money ! I want 2 sets !

[@davidburgess741]

If it fails when not riding it= no warranty. I did observe one of my spokes pop, while standing 5 metres away. Where would I stand! Waiting for warranty performance has never been one of my strong points.

[@AG-el6vt]

Ceramic bearings do *not* last longer than steel ones! The races are still metal! Wtf is this guy talking about?

[@stuartdryer1352]

There is some nuance here. Not all ceramic bearings are created equal, just like all metal bearings are not created equal. Some are good, and some are made to poor tolerances, etc. Of course, ceramic bearings in cycling normally have a specific user in mind. So, generalizations are maybe not a great idea, even though that is what you always like to do with these underrated vs. overrated schticks. They came in one of my wheelsets and once they're dead, I'll replace them with metal. But if I raced very seriously, maybe I'd do something different. Of course, they would always be dumb in a head tube.

[@kovie9162]

The only reason I'm even thinking about ceramic bearings is because I have to remove one of the sealed bearings on my rear wheel to fix a freehub play issue, and because I might damage it in the process and have to replace it, might as well consider doing so with a ceramic version, which doesn't cost that much more. But I'd like to know of any downsides first beyond the additional cost. I couldn't care less about speed as I'm not a racer and the traditional bearings on the wheel are super smooth, but if ceramic ones last longer or are more rugged on rough roads or handle moisture and so on better, then they'd be worth considering.

[@yonglingng5640]

The thing about hybrid ceramic bearings are that the bearing races wear out faster than those with steel ball bearings because ceramic is much harder than steel on the Mohs hardness scale. They also usually have a larger bearing clearance when compared to a steel counterpart.

[@donavinnezar]

in the case of bottom brackets , they can be rebuilt if you have some knowhow and the tools you probably wont catch me paying for a ceramic bearing EVER , steel one shot? replace the bearings ride for another 3-5 years

[@jamesmckenzie3532]

I had steel bearings on my bottom bracket and I was replacing them every three months due to corrosion. Switched to ceramic bearings and this stopped. The bearing was not corroding anymore.

[@Finnspin_unicycles]

@@jamesmckenzie3532 Sounds like an issue with your seals. I've had a bike that was ridden in all weather and stood outside a lot and no corrosion..

[@jamesmckenzie3532]

@@Finnspin_unicycles It WAS a Trek after all but the shop said the seals were ok. I also had this issue with a Specialized Roubaix and they have cups external to the bike. Probably because I didn't get them serviced as often as I should have.

[@cb6866]

Thanks Emily , Jimmi, and Nic...what about chains ? SRAM has several different priced options , which is better ? Please ?

[@appelflapdrol]

"best" is quite a broad concept

[@ericpmoss]

At least one video (with the Silca guy?) was saying that the hard chromed models (X01 and above) last many times longer than the lesser models.

[@cb6866]

Thank you. I did see another as well , saying the same thing . Im learning @@ericpmoss

[@davidburgess741]

Save your money. Lube it once In a while, and when the CC-4 says it's worn, replace it. Chain religion sucks.

[@cb6866]

Thank you. I am learning !@@davidburgess741

[@DoNuT_1985]

Here's your "magic" comment: I don't know if this was only justifying spending 1000€ on alloy wheels but when I went from the stock wheels to upgraded Fulcrums RZs which happen to have ceramic bearings (or "Ultra Smooth Bearings", as they call them), the first few descents felt like the bike was rolling away under me compared to the old wheels. To be fair, the wheels are light, I like Campag/Fulcrum, bearings weren't part of the negotiation.

[@SingaporeUntold]

Tried a ceramic once and lasted 1000km. I use a cheaper steel one and then replace it more often Nothing makes me cringe more than the overdone unloaded crank spin on a brand new bb. What’s the point ? Ah if spins. Spins like a 50 buck bb the same. How much pressure are you putting on the cranks when you spin. Nothing measured. No data. Just hey look a spinning a crank

[@alistairmacfadyen9365]

Where can we find XT15, is it possible to have a link? Great videos, thank you

[@GHinWI]

Google xd15 enduro

[@ericpmoss]

Google “enduro bearings XD-15”

[@bluemystic7501]

When should we replace bearings? Are all stainless-steel bearings the same or can an upgrade be purchased?

[@yonglingng5640]

Not all steel bearings are made equal. Industrial-grade ones are considered an upgrade, such as SKF and NTN among others, since most bearings used on a bicycle and its components are standardised and are not proprietary, such as 6902, 6805, 6806 and so on.

[@bluemystic7501]

@@yonglingng5640 I've been looking at NTN but cannot tell which ones would fit my wheels or BB.

[@yonglingng5640]

@@bluemystic7501 Look at the numbers on your bearings, usually four digits, that will be the bearing sizes you need.

[@sultanabran1]

the ignorance of the industry and its consumers is staggering. everyone believing bullcrap marketing. if you think about how a bearing works, why would you believe a ceramic bearing is going to give you so much performance??

[@overland_adventure_nz]

Why is no one talking about the hybrid bearings that SRAM put in some of the derailleurs?

[@illuminatustm]

6:08 😂

[@danjohnson9705]

Steel bearings are fine, the problem is they're always shipped with cheap white grease instead of a quality synthetic (waterproof, wide temp range). True of every bearing i've ever bought (bike, snowmobile, ORV).

[@CycoWarriorx]

The bigger question is do ceramic bearings make a rider ** feel ** they’re faster… if they feel they are, then they generally are… let’s not ignore the psychological benefit(s)… lol… stop being the little old lady in the park, with a needle, popping little kids balloons… 😂😂😂🙌🏽

[@tristramcharnley2581]

Do you think you could get a bit closer to the microphones please?

[@bchearne]

Just turn up your volume, smart guy

[@alistair410]

1 watt is the difference between 56th and 57th place.

[@songjoseph3314]

its good for race bike, but for mtb or gravel, i felt like you wont get any benefit from ceramic bearings, and because of the shock you received from off road the bearing will got damaged. ceramic bearings cant last as long as steel bearings.

[@JohnnyRabbitQC]

I think you got shares in Enduro. These bearings don't last and the company name is the only thing that gets people thinking they are durable. SKF, NTN, NSK is a better choice.

[@LongbranchOlivetti]

They're not overrated, they're just used inappropriately. Ceramic bearings have their uses in industry where the environment is clean and the rotational speeds are exceptionally high. Ceramic bearing do not belong anywhere near a bike. Moreover, the kind that are used on bike are not durable. Even if the races are made out of this nitrogen infused steel nonsense, it will never and can never be stronger than ceramic. And so the ceramic ball bearing will always eat into the races. Then you've got the fact that most of the drag in a bearing comes from the seals, not the balls.

[@yonglingng5640]

In the case of a PressFit bottom bracket, angular alignment plays a role too. That's why one-piece BBs with steel bearings can spin smoothly as the angular alignment between the two bearings is already perfect.

[@davidburgess741]

Jet engines are the main usage.

[@diehardbikes]

The Chris King ceramic bearings are very durable. Best durability in the market.

[@LongbranchOlivetti]

@@diehardbikes Have you got any evidence for that?

[@diehardbikes]

@LongbranchOlivetti I used to work for Chris King, first off, so I know that company. Secondly, our bearings being the strongest, hardest, and some of the fastest, as well as the best tolerances on the market is literally what we are known for. But specifically we are known for how good our bearings are. Our ball bearings are all made in house, and are hardened in house. Again, the more we have control over that, the better, because we can make the best possible product. Literally you are asking for evidence of what Chris King is known for. You want the evidence? Go look it up. We are legendary in that realm. I no longer work for Chris King, but I know a good quality product when I see one. I've bought products from BB infinite, Wheels Manufacturing, even Ceramicspeed- none have impressed as much as the Chris King bearings. Fun fact for you: you can run Chris King bearings completely dry: it's actually faster and Chris King bearings wear so well that they only get faster with time. That's how hard both the balls and the races are.

[@zethjugos1250]

Ive been using ceramic bearings and the only real advantage i have noticed is that i dont have to worry about rust

[@carlosflanders518]

I think they missed the point of ceramic bearings and the main disadvantages. Look up Hertzian contacts to understand the small efficiency gains. They also don't chip or flatten like steel bearings can. Disadvantage is increased wear on the races because of hardness and elastic differences. In general, it's a poor choice to have a bearing made out of mismatched materials. Ceramic not a good choice for races though.. Tune made a ceramic bb with 100% failure rate, btw.

[@mrtjcom]

You should check out XD15 in that case…

[@eagerbob]

About the difference in hardness and elasticity: Hambini compared ceramic bearings with a steel race to driving a train on a tarmac road...

[@carlosflanders518]

@@eagerbob It's quite an exaggeration, but it gets across the point. tbh, I don't think Hambini knows much about friction or Hardness. It's quite a specialized subject that is little covered in engineering education.

[@adaycj]

I really have no idea what they are talking about in this video. As a person that has changed thousands of bearings in my life, from vehicle bearings, motors, bikes, to industrial machinery. The number one failure of bearings is contaminated lubricants, by far. Like 99%. Now that we all use cartridge bearings with seals that aren't supposed to by pried out to service the lubricant, corrosion is only the effect, not the cause. The seals already failed at their job. Bikes are a difficult problem for bearings. Tiny bearings with crazy and unpredictable dynamic loads, exposed to varying and unpredictable levels of potential contaminants. Any quality bearing with good seals should have a long life. We are sacrificing seal quality for speed, and the impact of some minute change in ball or roller drag is so insignificant that it almost can't be measured. Listen to 5:50 to 6:20, they even admit it in the video. Why are they going on about in the beginning?

[@user-zu4nl7bm9e]

This comment should be pinned.

[@stuartdryer1352]

This is the TRUTH.

[@kevinfrost1579]

"i really have no idea what they are talking about in this video" .............nor do they ............😂

[@stuartdryer1352]

@@kevinfrost1579 More TRUTH.

[@JohnnyRabbitQC]

The tolerance on most powermeters is +/- 1% so all the stats on ceramic bearings are rubbish.

[@chris1275cc]

LOL, Take that Knowledge and go to the Trainer Road forums and count up all the "None of my power meters read the same" threads and you realize if a PM is actually consistently acerate in RL situations to within about 10-15w of what you are actually putting out you basically found a Unicorn.

[@AntoineThisdale]

Ceramicspeed bearings (because they come with the bike, not my choice, really) - 3k in dusty/gravel/mud. Super crunchy and sticky. Replaced under warranty through my bikeshop. very happy.

[@user-zu4nl7bm9e]

1 watt saving for 100 bucks, sounds delicious.

[@stephensmith2820]

More repeats. I hope you can sleep at night.

[@Manetty6]

Most stupid thing engineering wise a ceramic or (in most cases) ceramic hibrid bearings. There's no heat and/or high rpm in a bike. And there's always be a problem: ceramic balls are much harder than the heat treated ball race. 3:39 If you BUY something and CONSIDER sustainability, you don't understand this world. Buy things when you actually need it. Stop green washing.

[@tomaslarsen7814]

F1 Dont use them

[@bicikircho]

hats off to dry seal / wet seal image.

[@cycling2005]

Ceramic bearings are not more durable than steel. This is nonsense. You have two materials pressing on each other and one is 3 times harder than the other. The races will pit. High quality Japanese steel bearings are the best application for bicycles.

[@gerrysecure5874]

Yeah 1 Watt *can* be the difference between 1st and 2nd. But what is the cost of the win and what does it pay ? Lets stay real please. I never ever buy top of the line, exotic overpriced stuff. If it did change my life, it would to the worse, for sure.

[@GokkunGuru]

For MTB they’re a waste of $!

[@brunoserafim4599]

I bought ceramic bearings for my wheels for 5 bucks from China. I bought them for speed/performance on racing wheels. Why are they so inexpensive? I mean, what's the difference in terms of construction and materials?

[@dtibor5903]

Buy stainless steel bearings, they are perfectly fine for the job and they fail slowly

[@pierrex3226]

Curious as well. That 80-100 price point mentioned in the video sounds insane.

[@johndef5075]

Why would you put cheap bearings in your race wheels?

[@dtibor5903]

@@johndef5075 for training is perfect. Actually the expensive ones may come from the same factory and from the same production line.

[@hockysa]

Nic might be mistaken on this one. Until we can make a race with the same Rockwell hardness as a ceramic ball bearing. Ceramic bearings will not last longer. The harder bearings slowly cut into the race, even heat treated races will suffer this fate. Hambini tested steel vs ceramic bearings and we see ceramic drop off at 500 kms and continue to decline.

[@GHinWI]

The ball is always harder than the race for any rolling element bearing, even steel.

[@hockysa]

@@GHinWI I’m talking Rockwell hardness of a material though. It’s a property of the material.

[@michaelmappin4425]

I put ceramic Kogel bearings on my Bontrager wheels, and it was like a $5000 better bike. The wheels spin for days. I was convinced on first ride after. 🎉

[@petersouthernboy6327]

Or it could have been that your original bearings were trashed

[@michaelmappin4425]

@petersouthernboy6327 wheels bought new. Bearings were all replaced last year. I'm very aware of these wheels and how they feel and spin. Ceramics are faster. Kogel bearings all the way.

[@petersouthernboy6327]

@@michaelmappin4425 No way Bontrager put NTN or FAG or SKF bearings in their OEM wheels. They went Chinese.

[@michaelhatch1994]

1 watt for a rider with 200w ftp over 40k is 11 seconds (typical power range for amateur racers) . I have won a triathlon by 1 second.

[@JamesSmith-qs4hx]

Your maths is wrong... it is 0.11 seconds.

[@michaelhatch1994]

Apparently both of my responses have been deleted. But the reality of a 1 watt change in power is shown exactly by any bike calculator program.

[@michaelhatch1994]

If you were using a bike calculator program that's 0.11 minutes (or more).... not 0.11 seconds

[@DiegoHorchata]

Ceramic bearing for the bb and the wheels are worth it.