Are Champions Too Overloaded? | League of Legends

[@Rajiner]

"What separates Senna and Lucian?" Thresh 👍

[@VarsVerum]

Ok. I gotta pin this one xD

[@andji3882]

That's a good one

[@deejayf69]

Ah yes, the classic wife steal stat

[@oliverz4133]

Petition to start calling lifesteal on thresh wifesteal.

[@DexFire1115]

667st like

[@Zancibar]

The problem I have with a few of the most modern champions is that they have a lot of plausible counterplay, but in practice they really don't because all of the counterplay they have requires your champ to have a specific tool and be in a specific situation or requires the enemy to objectively fuck up to a degree that will get you killed on literally every other champion, so it's simply like the supposed counterplay wasn't there. Take Akali for instance: You can still hit skillshots in her shroud, except no you can't because she gains 30-50% ms. You can also try to one shot her before she one shots you, except no, you can't because she has 3 different dashes, 2 ms buffs and the invisibility so she'll simply play safe until she has enough tools to avoid your attacks. You could try to force an extended trade that she'll lose, except she won't lose an extended trade bacause her Q has a 1.5 s CD and it empowers her basic attack as well and gives her 30% ms to kite and you also cannot force an extended trade if you're melee because of the aformentioned 3 dashes. Oh, and since she has so much sounterplay, the second you miss an ability she will jump into you from half a screen away and one-shit-on you because she's an assassin. It's like modern champions don't have counterplay, but rather they have counterpicks, so that their winrates more or less reach 50% between 40% insta-wins and 40% insta-loses. They are designed for the casuals but balanced around the pros. And I think champions should be balanced over several games, but they should also be balanced at least most individual games, not every laning phase has to be fair, but if I can only play 3 games a day I shouldn't end every laning phase feeling like I lost in champ select.

[@dukeg.rabbit368]

Omg thank you. You can't think how many times i have to go Lissandra to not get utterly fucked by Akali. And even then, the moment she gets her ult and enough ap, either I insta cc her to death or I explode. And let's say that losing a whole kit of cc on one assassin when there are four other champions on the enemy team is really frustrating cuz if you don't kill her the moment you can, she will one shot your team.

[@Dingdong2730]

Akali has a notoriously toxic design, perhaps the most toxic in league. Its the same toxic category as Yone of being a bruiser/assassin hybrid, where they kind of circumvent the whole design of bruisers. Lets give some examples of where Akali's toxic design makes certain lanes unplayable for the enemy. This is my personal experience, but for squishy bruisers like Fiora, Tryndamere, Katarina and Yasuo, Akali is the most unfun and cancerous champ in the game, you want to uninstall after playing against her. She has a billion ways to "outplay" you, and all you can do is chase after her untill she turns arounds and bursts you down. If you play against her mid as those bruisers, you will be perma pushed under turret, while your jungler cant really gank because if she doesnt waste her cooldowns for no reason, she is ungankable, she can run 1 way then dashing a mile in the other direction right after, both with W+E1+E2 and with R1+R2, and you can combine those 2 as well for extra "outplay" hehe xd. Fun design, just not to play against.

[@brohham3078]

Well akali's main counterplay as melee or ranged is to dodge her E. Akali's damage comes from her passive so avoiding her E means you instantly deal more damage in any trade

[@Dingdong2730]

@@brohham3078 Bro just dodge the Camille hookshot and its a bad champ XDD. Also you sure you know how her E works? She dashes backwards, if she misses, most melee champs cant engage.

[@brohham3078]

@@Dingdong2730 akali E is on a 15 second cooldown earlygame and cant pass through minions. Camille E is on a 10 second cd and can not only pass through minions but she can flash to extend it's range AND it's impossible to Cc her out of it. They are two very different moves

[@AndyBrixton999]

Someone on KZbin (can't remember who) said "lately, champions have a clear weakness, but they give it so many ways to overcome said weakness that it isn't really a factor". Think about Kai'Sa, por example. She is supposed to be a late game champion yet she can outduel most ADCs at lv 1 or 2, thus making it insanely easy for her to reach her power spike. She doesn't have a weak stage in the match, only a strong one and a super strong one.

[@VarsVerum]

Sounds like the super top.

[@soulsemblance3163]

@@VarsVerum you watch and pray to our God the supertop hashinshin?

[@Sammysapphira]

Yes Heroes should have 1 or 2 identifying, strong attributes to their toolkit that separates them from other characters. But now everyone has an incredibly powerful tool on all 4 abilities.

[@mikhailthegreatestdragon3627]

1 or 2 identifying features can only go so far until you start stepping on people's toes tho, that's hardly sustainable

[@vuivraalbastra]

I feel like Heroes of the Storm handles hero variety better than League does lately. It's true there are way more champions than heroes, but even outside of that it's very hard/impossible to find 2 heroes that play the same. For example Li Ming and Orphea are both mobile mages with little to no CC. However with Li Ming you generally dish a lot of damage from a safe distance (teleport build is a thing but even then you need to use your orbs beforehand) while Orphea needs to go in and out in a fight to deal maximum damage no matter what build she picks. Raynor and Valla are both autoattackers but Raynor has more sustain and can take more hits while Valla is more mobile and so fragile. I feel like Riot thinks of 1-2 cool abilities for a champion and the rest are an afterthought, while in Heroes the devs first think about the general fresh gameplay for a new hero and then craft abilities that support it. Also I feel like Riot complicated their job so much by adding high mobility to way too many champions, so nowadays everyone receives a dash to make it fair. But I'm not an expert in champion design so I might be very wrong about all this.

[@mikhailthegreatestdragon3627]

@@vuivraalbastra That's a pretty shitty comparison to make, you know. HoTS uses pre-established material to make their heroes, they aren't making kits from scratch like LoL champions are made. Of course the heroes have distinct kits, it's easy to make it distinct when most of the heroes have distinct personalities and content to draw from.

[@vuivraalbastra]

@@mikhailthegreatestdragon3627 They're adapting kits from completely different games not from other MOBAs, so it's not a copy paste job. The challenge there is keeping the feeling of the champion the same while fitting into a MOBA, which was probably not easy for many heroes, Deathwing being a more recent example, plus they had to add new ults/abilities anyway even for Overwatch heroes. They also added Nexus original heroes, Orphea and Qhira, so there the kit is completely done from the scratch. And how is League champions not having lore beforehand an issue? They can make up whatever lore they want for an ability or make a champion related with already existing ones, like Viego or Senna. I'm not gonna say that it's easier for either Riot or Blizzard to design the kits for new heroes, both their own challenges and opportunities.

[@mikhailthegreatestdragon3627]

@@vuivraalbastra I'm not saying it's a copy paste job either, though? That's not the same as making a character's identity in their kit, which I would honestly say Blizzard has an easier time doing. They have several games and prior hours of content worth of research materials, they have baselines they can use and can just pick out what they need to make their Heroes distinct. Riot doesn't have that. They need to look at their work and make sure their abilities don't step on anyone's toes, it's basically going in blind at first and hoping you don't stumble. I'll be the first to criticize Rito for their sketchy ideas but this ain't it.

[@fernandosuarez43]

Short answer: Yes Long answer: Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees

[@indrickboreale7381]

YES YES YES YES YES! YES!

[@1v2bot47]

@@indrickboreale7381 YES YES YES oh my god

[@caol8075]

0:31 that sylas flash e was amazing

[@a.arrondel6379]

Funny how this gets released right after Yone's video

[@carlosheredia8395]

Which Yone video?

[@avalosp]

@@carlosheredia8395 why everyone plays yone

[@carlosheredia8395]

@@avalosp thank you bro, I saw it after my comment haha

[@studiocapone6313]

Oop-

[@avalosp]

@@infected5148 LMAOOOO DUDE YOUR HILARIOUS😐 LITERALLY NEVER HEARD THAT BEFORE😐

[@OatsMealz]

Riot: We need to stop making stat check champions! Also Riot: Keep making fast attacking champions who have tons of lifesteal!

[@Manafighter]

Then instead off nerfing their healing THEY BUFF GRIEVOUS WOUNDS AND FUCK AATROX EVEN MORE WOOHOO

[@brandont860]

@@Manafighter ah, a fellow enjoyer of Aatrox

[@viklifts-zk8bl]

Old aatrox has to go tho, he is high attack speed low damage and heals off of stuff... WAIT

[@RegahP]

????? Where. Literally where. They did that for viego, and gwen. Yone is Yasuo's brother, he's bound to be similar. Anyone else?

[@jacekmaraj1774]

@@Manafighter and enchanters

[@Nat-ri3ip]

12:05 That's Aurelion Sol. The proof that a champion doesn't need to be overloaded to be a balance nightmare.

[@bielhelp]

Aurelion is a balance nightmare because his whole kit doesn't make sense.

[@jamiesadf5829]

@@bielhelp his kit makes sense. Its just not a good concept.

[@alucard5841]

@@bielhelp his kit makes Sense, it's all about zoning, vars has a vídeo about him, the problem with aurelion is that in the past, he could Farm, poke, trade, push, teamfight, Just by walking, the stars would do everything for him. And his current problem is that the stars are only good with W.

[@ditlev5154]

@@alucard5841 Another problem is how easy he is to counter. Any champion with a dash like akali can simply desh over to him and then his stars cant do shit

[@febreeze4677]

@@ditlev5154 Akali surprisingly isn’t that bad of a matchup as long as you play safely since she doesn’t have any cc like irelia or pyke

[@deadlyvphantom1160]

New Champs nowadays: "Y'all like dashes?"

[@meneither3834]

Poppy : "yeah I do."

[@rike971]

Sett, Aphelios and Seraphine : Dash ? I don't have that here.

[@dingdongs5208]

"Y'all like manaless kits?" "Y'all like AoE CC?" "Y'all like invulnerability?" "Y'all like stealth?" "Y'all like omnivamp?"

[@meneither3834]

@@dingdongs5208 that's Viego right ?

[@dingdongs5208]

@@meneither3834 bit of a mix of gwen and viego, I missed out on true damage!

[@dissonantprotean5495]

it seems like you are one of the only people making good non-clickbait LoL content these days, thanks for that

[@VarsVerum]

Thank you! But you should check out Necrit and Exil too! :D

[@phoenixflamegames1]

@@VarsVerum oh yeah I watch both they really have solid content

[@Aleli_C_A]

And Pekin! His videos and titles are so literal, is really funny.

[@marchewmen]

Tbskyen does design non-clickbaity i think

[@HighLanderPonyYT]

You gotta look harder.

[@tripleD2301]

Samira's passive is even longer than all the achievement of my life.

[@gibbyboi5703]

The problem here is the number not how overloaded they are, you can have an overloaded champion but really "lower" all of their AD/AP ratios, so in that way their abilities dont hurt alot, numbers matter here, if you have Ryze's q and e 400 ap scaling then he would have been broken, and if you have Samira's abilities only 30% Ad Ratio depending on her current ad then its balanced, numbers really matter here and Riot doesnt even know this

[@TheIrrelevantYT]

Samira's passive is actually pretty intuitive. "Overloaded" is why Samira's E (her dash) gives her a short ATK speed bonus for no reason.

[@99temporal]

@comi o cu de quem me respondeu mundo's passive is bigger than my self steem

[@wallacepurge]

Compare to Sivir's passive when she got a flat MS of 55 when damaging champions. What the heck.

[@TheRealHiltsy]

its also WAY cooler.

[@apollyon1311]

I was expecting to be original with a simple "Yes" but it's too late... It's too late for me

[@StoneDeceiver]

wow idk what to say. breathtaking, shattering my being into ten thousand shards of momentary anguish. you are a master poet

[@strawburryjamz2974]

Wait Ur PfP Seems Very Familair

[@apollyon1311]

@@strawburryjamz2974 I don't what I should fell about that...

[@RonSwan18]

I agree a ton with the rell point at the end. One of the only champs in recent memory that wasnt absolutely busted on release. Problem is they dont do this consistently. See yone being broken from the jump and never being fixed

[@phantasiatwo721]

Can't wait. All of the recent videos have been so good

[@EzKay_PX]

Tbh, i think Sett was something of a step in the good direction, since tho he had more stuff than your typical garen/darius he doesn't feel overloaded, he was simple to understand, easy to grasp, but semi-hard to master, as all things should be I think maybe balancing out the more flashy "overloaded" champs with a couple of useful but simpler champs would be a decent balance, but nobody can be pleased at the same time :p

[@shawnlee6775]

Sett best champion released in a long time.

[@ditlev5154]

The reason he doesn't feel overloaded is most likely because you're playing him most other top laners can't really do anything about him. He has hard cc a move buff PLUS a gigantic shield that allows him to tower, dive, whenever he fucking wants and if he's about to die under the tower he can quite simply drag himself and you out of there with his R. Not to mention if you're building tank it won't work because then his ult is gonna do a fuck load of damage, and if your try to go for damage his shield is just removing every chance you had for winning the fight.

[@liandrysanguishinshin7955]

Ditlev Overby sett is the easiest champion to kite in the entire game you know? Just don't let him touch you, it's quite simple. If you're an enemy toplaner, simply play high mobile top laners like aatrox, malphite, riven, etc. Because if he can't keep auto attacking you his horrible cool downs and terrible gap closing leaves him vulnerable to you using your casts like riven ult, malphite combo, or aatrox combo. Sett is part of my champion pool in top (among aatrox, renekton, garen, mordekaiser.) so I'm quite familiar with him. Just stop letting him touch you, it's not that hard.

[@RisottoNero-z1w]

Please, my grandma couldaster sett in an afternoon

[@billho2009]

For me honestly the new champs are fun, its just the healing and life steal that triggers me and grevious wounds would do nothing to them. Yone at 5% hp can heal back to at least 60-70% with shieldbow and greaves even with an ignite on

[@liandrysanguishinshin7955]

I mean, that makes shieldbow the problem, not yone, so why are you complaining about yone?

[@CelVini]

@@liandrysanguishinshin7955 If the problem was shieldbow other Champions would be as OP as him, but they aren't

[@tristancarter4324]

@@CelVini REAL TEA

[@issacoh4775]

12:02 "Let's make them fly over walls and give them an ultimate that fires thousands of meteors on the enemy team" Talon mains: *sweating intensifies*

[@PedroAce]

I'm amazed how you didn't mention Aatrox when talking about "removed pieces of kit". Yes I'm still sad about it.....

[@entonberg3945]

Same, first i mained Aatrox and riot deleted him, after that i mained aurelion sol and then they gutted him, after that i just quit league...

[@StoneDeceiver]

imagine being an irelia player and having your champ turned into a cringe lord waifu thats extremely annoying to play when before she was soo elegant

[@123hattan]

Oldtrox was best

[@g00sigamer45]

@@StoneDeceiver irelia pro rework is way better may be op but better for sure

[@StoneDeceiver]

lol, no.

[@gyroinquisitor8618]

Yet another banger from Vars Now let's watch the banger

[@dtxas1]

The problem isn't in "overloaded kits" it's overloaded mobility/invincibility. You can't outplay them, because they can always pick when to fight, they can play safe and escape your any efforts in offense, but doesnt sacrifice their potential to kill you because of it.

[@NocturnalX7]

As someone who's played since S2 I can say Fizz, LeBlanc and Kassadin were defintely the most cancerous matchups in League and apart from LB they had a higher than average ban rates. Their high damage and mobility which translates into high defense since you can't hit them made them stronger than other champs at high level. Now that the elements that shut them down, point and click abilities (old Ryze) got turned into skillshots and minions being easily able to block stuns and abilities diminishing their effect after the first target is a huge boost to those hypermobile assassin pieces of shit.

[@argon4756]

Non of those abilities come without a cost. I mean yes, it can be annoying to deal with but if you had a single brain cell to use and think of counters to the ability then you wouldn't say it's overloaded

[@ghostpants7282]

@@argon4756 Lmao ok hit viego when he is invincible for 2 seconds

[@inslava]

Jax is overloaded with mobility/invincibility. All this "new champs op" is cool and nice till jax beat you with a stick

[@liandrysanguishinshin7955]

Ghostpants pre-cast your cc and burst him like a normal human being.

[@Arachne64]

Newer champions are really interesting with all these new things they can do, but riot definetely has to try and add more simple champions like Sett, because they're also really interesting

[@dawidlol1337]

Samira plays like Katarina but with a wind wall and can move during her ult tbh

[@CryoConnoisseur]

she atleast does only physical dmg, not like kata being able to 33% physic, magic and true damage

[@facundolucianogomezcena5801]

How to counter Katarina: 1st: stun her. 2nd: praise to god that she's dead before the stun ends. Note: in case of this strategy fail, ff.

[@CryoConnoisseur]

@@facundolucianogomezcena5801 or just react to the midlaner's pings

[@dawidlol1337]

@@CryoConnoisseur Her melee and E do magic? Did you not read the patch notes where Kraken Slayer Katarina was gutted? Yes it was broken, no denying that, but not anymore. When Kat builds AD she is still like 60% plus magic damage. Early in the game it may be more physical due to her having no damage so she has to auto you to death with auto resets from E if she has conqueror and long sword/d blade start.

[@dawidlol1337]

@@facundolucianogomezcena5801 From my experience good lane picks into her in an isolated 1v1 are Lucian, Tristana, Pantheon, piece of shit fish, wind shitter, wind shitter 2, Vladimir, Diana, Talon, Zed, Kassadin, Annie, Akali, Ekko if you don't int before level 6, Garen, Renekton, Volibear, any bruiser really, Azir if you want to get reported for picking such a low winrate champ, Malzahar if you don't int pre 6, Zoe unless you manage to somehow miss bubble, Orianna is actually quite hard for Kat but you actually have to be good at her otherwise you die off cooldown. Just don't pick Veigar or Taliyah and you're good. Galio is less good due to AD builds now though. How to stop Kat going bot lane and getting a double kill is an entire different story however. At least an 0/5 Kat is irrelevant but an 0/5 Zed one shots your ADC without R and a wind shitter 2 pentas at full build (boots, shieldbow, IE)

[@wonthangsoop]

I haven't played this game since Qiyana's release, and this is part of the reason..

[@carnivorze1052]

Qiyanna is for me the most overload assassin in the game. Passive : damage buff on first hit Q : skill shot that can slow and stun, execute and grant invisibility. Also when using during E it's point and click. W : Passive : ATK speed, move speed and magic damages on hit. Active : dash that grant a new element between grass, earth and water. Also reset Q. E : point and click dash that redirect Q. R : AoE bump and stun on terrain that hurt a lot. Jax's kit : Passive : when attack, attack more. Q : jump W : auto reset E : can't auto attack Jax, then stun. R : tank stats.

[@pride3231]

I think riot just confused making champions unique with making them have everything that they need to be broken

[@freshlymemed5680]

At this point I think they're trying to make champions that fit more with actual competitive tournaments than the actual player base. How many of the new gen champions got released with huge play making potential? Oh right, all of them did. I don't blame Riot for trying this though, seeing the same champions being picked over and over in pro games got stale real fast.

[@JaceGarrdok]

10:33 Azir's W also used to be castable on towers to have something like a mini Demolish proc. he shredded through lanes like it was nothing.

[@craeond]

What i really miss about him is his old passive where in cooldown=attack speed.

[@ptkprincipe6209]

Men, I've just discovered your channel and I have to say that your monologues are really OP. It's like a scientific dissemination and really love it. Great to see this quality content. Cheers from Argentina!

[@VarsVerum]

Gracias amigo! Es un honor escuchar eso :)

[@mr.g1672]

12:00 "Let's make this champion fly over walls and give them an ultimate that fires thousands of meteors" - *Reworked and buggy Aurelion sol 1 year later:* Allow me to introduce myself Jeez, vars can almost predict what's gonna happen with the game at this point

[@OljeiKhan]

@0:31 Can i get an F in the chat for that Sylas?

[@hansypans5447]

F

[@deejayf69]

Vars: Are champions too overloaded? After all 1 champ can have 10 dashes, invincibility and a global that hits everyone. Riot: Write that down! Write that down!

[@inigo137]

So karthus with dashes? Lol

[@fredstercooney5497]

I have no problem with an overloaded champ if it takes a lot of skill to play well. For instance I believe azir is one of the strongest champs in the game. But he takes hundreds of games to get down while a champ, my main, jhin only takes tens. But while jhin isn’t overloaded another champ that only takes that many games is someone like sett, yone seraphine, or senna. Champs that are decently easy with amazing damage, kits and versatility. So I agree with you and I don’t. But as always great video vars.

[@happyoblap]

I personally believe that conceptually, champions are all different, but gameplay-wise...recent releases feel the same...like not strictly but I feel that Samira is kind of the same to Yasuo in terms of overloadness...and I can give you a lot of examples

[@DastardlyDistaste]

Having not seen this at all yet, I hope he mentions Viego. When you look at his kit, he is literally a 100% complete champion without his character-stealing mechanic. With a typical ultimate reset on kill, nobody would even question that he was a fully realized character. To me, that is the very essence of overload- When you could remove a mechanic entirely from the character and they would still seem complete.

[@fredstercooney5497]

Yea but you could remove jhin a lotus traps and he would still be a complete champion but no one is saying lotus traps are broken.

[@DastardlyDistaste]

@@fredstercooney5497 ??? Jhin not having an E would be highly noticeable, and everybody would find it weird if he only had three abilities. Noticeable enough that Aphelios not having an E is something they deliberately noted. Also, who said Viego's steal mechanic was broken?

[@DastardlyDistaste]

@Koatei Harven You're not reading what I wrote. I didn't say he's overpowered or broken. I said he's overloaded. I do play Viego and I enjoy his kit a lot, passive included. His results in-game are statted around his passive, but what I'm saying is that if he were released without that passive, nobody would be saying he feels incomplete. His kit works 100% on its own, his ult operating as a reset mechanism works on its own, and if he simply got 1 second of untargetable and health back whenever he killed an enemy champion, I guarantee you Viego players would still 'pop off' on him just fine.

[@edog6696]

My favorite of the recent champs is Sett, he had a much simpler kit than the rest of recent releases.

[@123hattan]

The issue is though that even when a kit can do multiple things, the champions still are accompanied by loads of unintuitive passives too. It is ironic that the newest champs play unique and yet are also insane stat sticks like older ones.

[@liandrysanguishinshin7955]

Bruv pls don't try to stat check an old juggernaut with ANY new champion, you will lose every single time. There's a reason I can ult any champ in the game with mord and kill them with 50% hp remaining.

[@123hattan]

@@liandrysanguishinshin7955 Mordekaiser is reworked. He is not old.

[@liandrysanguishinshin7955]

Quacky yeah I forgot that mordekaiser is so new with his very simple kit, but my point still stands, a yone can't beat a garen to death, viego can't stand in front of urgot and Gwen most certainly can not try to punch a nasus to death.

[@123hattan]

@@liandrysanguishinshin7955 Urgot does one bad E and he dies in a team fight. Garen has predictable movement and easily kited. Yone has literally a failsafe button on his E for bad positioning. A dash on his Q and a dash on his Ultimate. All go over walls. Then he also has a flash. He also has a lot of sustain, burst, hybrid and true damage and general dps that he wins MOST trades. He is a Duelist AND Assassin (something which is not supposed to be).Yone's kit is so designed that he has always 1-2 tools available to always have the chance to make a good easy play. Compared to most champs, a champ like Yone only needs to be lucky once in a battle to win because he is so overloaded with strong, convenient tools.

[@jvjv8093]

Here's a sughestion for a video. One trick ponies and why they exist, who even plays them, who are the champions being one tricked, and what do they provide to the community.

[@thinking2460]

Y E S

[@lucker8753]

Im not gonna lie this sounds kinda pointless lol Vars already makes contents very similar to what your questions ask Why do they exist?: because humans exist and some of them like certain champions in this game which humans made? 😂😂😂😂😂 Who plays them? :humans Who are the champions being one tricked: whatever humans decide to one trick What do they provide to the community: 0/10 yasuo

[@jvjv8093]

@@lucker8753 Sure.

[@mr.mystery9338]

The good old days of season 4 when i just picked up the game and build frozen mallet phantom dancer runaan cho gath and fiddlesticks. That s my nostalgia lens.

[@lissandrafreljord7913]

Sett actually has a pretty normal kit in my opinion. Not overloaded at all, even compared to older juggernauts. Juggernauts in general have very simple and straightforward mechanics that are not overloaded, unless the numbers are too high. I think Aatrox was the only one who was overloaded after the rework.

[@murphygay7606]

I agree sett isn't overloaded. There's champs that legit have way more than 4-6 mechanics in thier kits, and then there champs that simply have some decent support systems for thier mechanics, but are still over all simple enough that they aren't overloaded, but people will call them overloaded. Srsly compare release Irelia/Akali/Samira/Yone to Sett, Lillia, Viego, the former clearly have way more going on. Being strong, and having strong numbers isn't the same as having 8 different mechanics. even Aatrox doesn't have that much going on, he has AoE dmg with a sweet spot knock up, a skillshot tether that pulls, and dash, and a dmg boost.

[@CorruptionAura]

They could add new maps quite well. For example, a smaller map, maybe make it a3v3 map. Possibly a spider boss much like baron. They could even base it on the shadow isles

[@kapitan19969838]

Or a round map, with towers which You can capture

[@hiimdino99]

Vars you have the same interests as me and it’s kind of awesome! I love the yugioh, pokemon and smash references as I used to play all of those competitively! Great vid and keep it up man!

[@VarsVerum]

Ah yes a man of culture :3

[@janchryslerhogat5793]

0:30 what an outstanding move

[@facundolucianogomezcena5801]

"fly over walls and give them an ultimate that fire thousands of meteors on the enemy team..." bro, that's Hou Yi from Smite lmao

[@UltraSexyChipotle]

My thoughts

[@dingdongs5208]

I'm a relatively new league player but a long time magic the gathering player. Mtg had a massive power level upswing between 2019-2020, players complained, formats were ruined and a lot of bans had to be made, thankfully they have listened to our complaints and feedback and now in 2021 power level has come down to a much better and fun power level. Riot doesn't listen to its players and doesnt need to. Which is what worries me about the future of league

[@emiliolocura2]

That Irelia vs Sett is so painful to watch. That amount of dashes is just so broken

[@SoulyPlays]

Only 1 problem with this video: the Pokémon reference You couldn't be more wrong with that reference: Cinderrace is currently positioned in the Uber tier(a tier where the most broken Pokémon reside like legendarys) and Charizard is positioned in PU(poorly used) which is the bottom of the tier list where the most weak Pokémon reside and it's only higher than untier which is Pokémon so useless you should never use them. This is competitive Pokémon btw. Other than that the vid was great

[@valkonik566]

Honestly i am okay with overloaded champs but they just need to keep reworking the old ones if that’s gonna keep happening

[@abideasthat]

Cool, so you make a game that is unplayable for the average person. Most of the user base are very casual players. How many times I’ve tried to get friends to learn league to join me but they felt the learning curve was too high.

[@CATJAMMING7272]

”Lets make them fly over walls and shoot thousands of meteors on the enemy team” That did not age very well

[@whole.milk__]

this is a much needed video especially since s11 and the new items which imo added even more overloadedness to champs by removing unique strengths and weaknesses

[@dankmemes8254]

The issue with season 11 items some of them complement the playstyle and roles but others just straight up remove the weaknesses of the class a good example of this is gale force for adc and stridebreaker for top laner good luck kitting a garen or Darius with this item and ghost

[@walkerwilson1397]

Charizard avoids power creep because its gamefreak's favorite pokemon

[@hellfrozenphoenix13]

I think riot just needs more of the "Sett" type champions, who are direct and easy to understand, to balance the more complex ones. Their psst few Champs have done this well, and I hope this is thwir new dedicated direction

[@paulgibbon5991]

Hard to believe you released this before Akshan's release.

[@jacquelynthompson5346]

7:01, I thought he said spiders. I was like “What? Elise?”

[@nicholasharlan6504]

As a lifelong pokemon fan, thank you for using them for comparisons in your vids as I think it highlights your points very well.

[@joshblue3150]

im pretty sure they CAN make another version of rift that isnt what is currently is. like 2-3 additional maps with varying lanes and objectives, while the over all game objective wouldnt change much (Example destroy the enemy nexus) they can easily make varied maps to have a map pool, not just same old plain boring ass SR. I dont wanna use Heroes of the Storm as an example but SOMETHING like that but not nearly as objective heavy.

[@gu1581]

My biggest problem with having so many champions is the drafting in competitive: What good does it do if you can ban 5 counters to your comp when there are 50?

[@rhythmribbon6282]

I will still say that two champs I’m mad didn’t get the azir/akali treatment are seraphine and kaisa. Both of these fuckers have been meta since the start of the season, yet they remain untouched by nerfs. I’m hoping now that spring split is over, sera can finally get the axe along with kaisa.

[@creaketh]

I'd love that too tbh

[@ronthehuman3618]

On one hand, yes, but a while ago a saw a tweet from blizz (who is on the balance team I think? Maybe QA) where he says that champions with a lot of parts are easier to balance because there's a lot of moving dials, unlike more stat stick-y champions which are mostly either op or useless. Honestly, I can really see that point, so maybe the problem isn't that they are overloaded, but that they are unevenly overloaded?

[@steaki8032]

Really good point. Champs like yone and seraphina can be nerfed just by tweaking numbers but if you try to do the same to any stat checker, you end up with a living ward.

[@armandklink4843]

Champions being overloaded isnt truly the issue. What I find to be alot worse is how many new characters are basically just old champions remade in a modern environment, stuffed with a billion+1 new tools to hide away how painfully similar some characters are. Seraphine-Sona is the most obvious one, but champs like Camille for example basically do everything a character like Vi or Jarvan would, just alot better and effective. There will be a point where theres no reason to ever play old characters unless they're deliberately overtuned and minireworked/VGUd, which frankly is about to start ramping up like hell. They even awknowledge it with multiple older champions getting bigger gameplay changes

[@mikhailthegreatestdragon3627]

I've played both, the Seraphine/Sona comparison isn't true. It's more Seraphine/Lux tbh

[@wanderingthewastes6159]

4:08 "naturally to keep players engaged and excited to play League more stuff needs to be added" *Laughs in TF2*

[@Nipotazzi]

A FPS isn't the same of a MOBA, TF2 is retro and the community is solid, League is also solid but the game can get stale with time.

[@primcrane8736]

@@Nipotazzi i guess that could be true but league already has a ton of champions and a huge skill ceiling that most players aren't anywhere close to reaching. IMO even if they stopped adding champs there would still be a lot of replay value, esp at lower levels where the Meta™ is less impactful because players can't always exploit champ traits that make them meta.

[@Seoul_Soldier]

You’re the only League KZbinr still worth watching since you don’t make clickbait bullshit, I love your breakdown.

[@HighLanderPonyYT]

Neace hasn't either.

[@user-bg1uc1gm3q]

6:38 the only example will probably be yone, but the only things i see similar are the playing around shields playstyle, q ability, knockups and the 1/10 powerspike and your team vs my team meme

[@enkiimuto1041]

This video will blow up hilariously in the next few days

[@Tokumastu1]

Riot could've easily stuck to simple straight forward designs and still had a consistent player base, instead of doubling down on overloaded kits. Hell if Smite can go as long as it has by sticking to simple kits and only doing the overloaded experimental stuff sparingly, Riot could've done the same.

[@barb1493]

18k players a day lmao.

[@florianstraub72]

Arthur, realy simply kit he only has 1 Ultimate. And is a god thats why he is fitting for the battle ground of the gods. Heimdall (at least hes a real god). BabaJagga or however its written out. They also start to make overloaded champions even bevore i quited Smite. and that was one or two Years ago. Belona basic attackpattern changes on 2 of her 3 ablitlys, while the 1 first ablitly gives blocks. Nearly every meele champion has there own Atk pattern. For Amaterasu it was 1 0,5 1 + Swingtime. The game even on a basiclevel is more overloaded. In LoL you have passiv q w e r. And in Smite you start out with Basics, passiv, 1 2 3 4. And belive me, i forgot a lot about atk patterns for intence. There is so much more you have to know bevore you go up against a champion. When a passiv stats that the passivs are boosted based on the specific enemy chamption they are up against its gets funky. Like Horus and Sett. There is a like i mentioned a lot of stuff unnessery.

[@astolfo11]

12:03 "Lets make them fly over walls and give them an ultimate that fires thousands of meteors on the enemy team" literally the aurelion sol rework haha

[@zenazouzu1607]

11:59 It's funny you say that, because there's this niche new champ called Aurelion Sol

[@streptococo4735]

would you imagine if Riot one day fed up after just making crazy champions, they just one day release a champion called Bob, and all of his abilities just say "Bob does something" and is passive is "passively, Bob does something"

[@beltashazzar5277]

You know, I'd LOVE that. XD I would play the crap out of Bob. Feels like a better Ivern - They took Ivern a bit too seriously, I think, and it took away from the fun of it.

[@Fbsuab]

This sounds so much like april first material xD

[@ambiguousfate.]

11:49 gotta love that shield...

[@firefox6285]

Very nice breakdown. I feel like part of the problem is that Riot states explicitly that they value change and 'freshness' over achieving a static balance. They also put theme over balance, e.g. Akali having all these cool ninja moves, but way overloaded. Akali being a balance nightmare is in my opinion, because they started with giving her everything they wanted a ninja to have, rather than starting with a plan to have a balanced character. Then they have soooo many moving parts... individual base states, item interactions, rune interactions, some with mana, some energy, some none etc. Yet I feel some of the best characters in the game have relatively simple kit designs that ALLOW for skill expression.

[@notreally5920]

Rell and Lillia are my favorites of the new champions o:

[@ASwallie65]

I'd argue Sett and Garen are the similar ones. AD juggernauts who can viably build full tank, damage, attack speed or mixed. A passive that gives regen, Q that gives movement speed and an auto reset, a W shield that increases in power the more you fight, and a big damage ult that synergizes with your opponent's max HP.

[@varietyhour731]

honeslty azir's dash blocking was broken then, but would feel really damn nice now

[@killzxc3]

this could of been a 1 second video of just yes but this 14 min explanation is way better

[@dvdv4270]

12:03 Vars casually predicting Asol rework(when he released he had a glitch with his ult to…ehm…let’s just say to make him more faithful to his lore.

[@damdu28380]

i don't mind if a champ is overloaded, if this champ has clear weakness that you can exploit to counter it like Sett has poor range with low mobility so you can stay away or that if he uses his w only the middle part do true damage, but i don't like when a champ is overloaded with no big weakness because you can't punish the errors like akali is pushing with no wards and is being ganked she can e out use her shroud and double ulti out and others can't be punish like that it's just frustrating

[@Freshwitdaposites18]

I think the problem Riot is having when creating champions is agency. Newer characters have more agency, no/fewer weaknesses, or improved versions of old abilities

[@PsQueak2]

I don't think they should stop making champs with a lot of features, but I do think they should throw some simpler ones in the mix sometimes. Especially when concerning mechanics and mobility. I'm someone with very average mechanics but I'm really good at placement and zone control. As such, casters and mages are my favorite thing to play, and I love the elation from well-placed skill shots and zoning (top 3 are Ahri and Lux over 400k, with Morg next at 380k+). Their kits are super simple and even people new to the game can play them. But I feel like in a long time they haven't released a champion that caters to my "simplistic yet effective" playstyle that I use in my roles, mid and support. The last one I can think of was Neeko and she herself almost has too much to call her simple.

[@ianjohnson3274]

I started playing in late season 10, early preseason 11. So I don't have any rose tinted glasses when it comes to this topic, yet I can still tell that the s11 champs are insanely overloaded to the point where even the smallest of leads causes them to snowball out of control. Yone and viego have the most overloaded kits imo and it really shows in their gameplay. Either one of them gets 1 or 2 kills in the early game, and the match is basically over.

[@theannoyer2953]

a really good video that gave me a new insight about the new championn released

[@artemiswillhelm2633]

I quite like the overloaded champions , I feel like in a lot of cases they're mechanically more demanding champions and that's kinda cool but I also really like the simple grounded champs as ease of access is pivotal in league, I'm not sure what this comments achieves aside from telling a bunch of random people that I like league but here we are uwu

[@DRUKENHOBO]

personally i feed the exact opposite, it takes no skill to outplay someone if over 1/2 your kit negates their champ. i feel that using your limmited ability set to outplay people is more mechanically demanding then face rolling your keyboard.

[@arandomphoenix7005]

I just dislike how some of the simpler champions are being sidelined for a champion that can do what they do, and so much more. Take soraka, who’s main job is healing. She is currently the worst enchanter in the game simply because almost every new champion made recently has healing and sustain in their kits, enough to make soraka nearly useless. And since healing is becoming a more common kit element, things like grievous wounds are being built more often, which is fine for those overloaded champions considering healing is just ONE thing they do. But for champions like Soraka whose kit is centred around just healing, her entire kit is erased with 800g. It’s just frustrating

[@lolon7550]

but the fact a champ is hard doesnt make it fair their completly broken and overloaded (yone and he isnt even that hard)

[@duytran9086]

You play League of Legends, not Champion of Legends. Stop trying to be cool with "wow so skill expressive champion, I can smash 8 buttons in a span of 2s without consequences and outplay everyone, I'm so good." Meanwhile don't even understanding wtf is "pathing".

[@artemiswillhelm2633]

@@duytran9086 bro when did I say I could even play mechanically demanding champions? What I said was that I think they're cool so sit the fuck down Oh, and did you just decide to ignore the part where i said the simpler champions where also cool ?

[@gabrielb.5882]

When you think about it, some time ago, in the s11, one of the most broken champ was Udyr. Champs that Tops are afraid to face are Vayne or Darius, ect. Over all, yeah, new champs have bunch of stuff and all, but they don't excel in one of them. Everytime you wanna do something, there is a champ that can do it better.

[@Dysonsfear771]

For the intro: the champion menu still has a difficulty meter, gat actually indicates how versitile a champ is. Alistar, Annie and Cait are difficulty 1 so their versatility isnt that much just like sett or yuumi but the champs you talk about (viego and yone for example) have rating 3 meaning its pretty versatile. It really is a good indicator imo, pls have a look. I'll always be open for discussion :) Edit: i only talk about the start of the intro with the champs i talked about i agree with all the rest of the vid

[@ArceusShaymin]

Hey, Vars, this was a great video discussing one of the more controversial parts of champ/game design. When you mentioned how Riot can't add new maps to the game like other multiplayer games can, it lit a sort of fire in me, reminding me of the maps that Riot had removed in favor of supporting only the main two. I would love to see you discuss the situations of the removed Dominion and Twisted Treeline maps, what they were, how they played, how they fell off in popularity, and eventually got removed. A neutral, perhaps more informative discussion on the subject would be nice, and at least fill some of the void TT made when it left for me. I, personally, am biased in that I believe Riot was just really lazy and didn't want to have to balance a less popular map, preferring to alienate a playerbase rather than put man-hours into a potentially unpopular venture, and that their arguments of 'it was unpopular so we canned it' fall flat when considering that it didn't receive any changes past 2012/2013. But, again, I would love to hear some arguments from both sides, and learn some factual history along the way. Love what you do, keep up the good work!

[@VarsVerum]

I never actually played TT or Dominion LOL

[@flameofmage1099]

Soon enough we'll see champions with two paragraphs per ability.

[@destructive_thoughts_]

You mean Gwen?

[@icigs3964]

As they will keep making overloaded champs, i only want to see a lol's version of dota's champion Invoker. I think is the highest point of overloading a kit because his spells are combinations of his 3 basic skills so in fact he has 10 basic skills.

[@spatz2219]

Tbh it feels like they tried to do that with aphelios and we know how that turned out lol

[@Meowthix]

The class orientation they follow is very similar to D&D/Pathfinder archetypes. A good solution to preventing power creep would be to flesh out classes untouched, you've mentioned it in Taric but a "Paladin" Class seems to be a missing option, you have "Wardens" But it just doesn't feel the same. You can make an argument most operate more as a warpriest than a paladin does, outside of Taric. Although the berserker isn't necessarily a class as much as an archetype it's largely untouched outside of Olaf and a few others that you could make an argument for, Tryndamere and Sion mostly. Fleshing out their "class" system a bit more at the point then developing those to an equal point would work very well. Edit: I understand at this point League has been out for so long and has followed it's own set path so retconning powercreep isn't a simple feat. Mostly I think the the pro scene pushed powercreep to the point it is now.

[@lukesky6138]

How do u only have 50 k subs can’t wait to see u grow

[@sandortojzan5409]

I think the best term to describe these new champs is "hit or miss". Basically what Riot has been doing with a lot of their designs is making champions do things that their respective class is not supposed to, either covering up a big weakness of the class or getting something that belongs to a different class, and in some cases, even mashing two classes together, like with Yone being an assassin-skirmisher, Senna being a marksman-enchanter, and Seraphine being a burst/poke mage-enchanter. And while this is a good way to make new and interesting designs, it also leads to some big problems with game health and balancing. Of course, if you make an ADC that is extremely strong in melee combat like Aphelios and Samira, then those are going to be very unique and fun to play as. The problem is that just the idea of a "ranged carry that can fight at melee" is simply not healthy for the game. The same way that "enchanter that goes untargetable and matches your speed" or "assassin that goes in, one shots, and then warps all the way back to his team's backline" or "ranged poke toplaner that turns into a teamfighter tank with lots of CC" is also an unhealthy concept. Which is why I think it's a problem that League is trying to stay alive with frequent champion releases. I personally think it's a bad idea to force 6 champion releases per year, instead of doing LITERALLY ANYTHING ELSE. Like, just prioritize reworks on outdated champions like Cho'Gath and Corki, or make a bunch of new maps and modes that people can look forward to, or maybe you can do christmas events with special PvE modes like DotA, or if you REALLY want to ensure a long lifespan for League, then make a custom mapmaker. People LOVE custom modding, and it is the main reason why Minecraft became so big (also here I am, playing Warcraft 3 custom maps and campaigns for more than 10 years now xd). It's enough to just have 2 or 3 well thought out cool new champions per year, as long as players actually get things that they want. But other than that, I don't really have that many problems with overloaded champions. For someone like Rell, it works, because she has clear windows of weaknesses where you can punish her, which I feel is what they wanted with Yuumi as well (...only to miserably fail). You have to be careful with how you design overloaded champions, as mistakes can backfire HARD (just look at Akali, Irelia and Azir...). But Riot seemed to have learned from their past mistakes, as despite the fact that Viego and Gwen are both squishy and mobile melee fighters, they still have a somewhat tame kit. I guess only time will tell if Riot's champion design is actually improving or not.

[@matthewnelson9702]

My pet peeve is Pyke. Sure he's been out for a while now but he's definitely overloaded. Long range hook, invisibility, hp recover/sustain on a massive move buff, dash aoe stun, reusable high threshold true execute (unlike Cho or Evelynn that a timely shield can wreck, his just does 9999 if you're below a decently high threshold) that scales with Lethality (as a "support") and all with pretty low cooldowns. Oh and he can dish out extra cash to another player involved in a kill. My fixes would be making his dash hit only one person (similar to Leona's e), making his ult do max set damage (even if it's amped like eve's) so it can be shielded, and unless he has a support item the cash doled out is half. Done. Massive nerf but still highly useful and viable, now with some outplay ability. Actually any two would do it, the third may be overkill? Oh well, send him back to the depths!

[@pebblebrowser]

I play Rell and other tank supports like Leona, Nautilus, and yes, she does feel different, but tbh I sometimes feel like the other, different thing she does is just much more useful to the game, and she's closer to "outclasses all other similiar kind of supprots" than "she does something different" imo. Although she *is* a lot harder to play perfectly than Leona for example, so I guess it kinda makes sense

[@HI-ge4fh]

*we don't think our champions have overloaded kits overall*

[@dobbvious2871]

I think the problem is that every champ needs to be overloaded, if everybody is OP nobody is. The games as it is right is more flashy, dynamics and epic i feel, more plays more action, but older champs start to fall behind, as you said, cause they have nnot so many attribute. In a way im kinda glad the manage to move forward frome the like of akali and irelia rework (which terribely frustrating champ to play against to this day still for me) and i didn't have a vibe of "opiness" from Viego, Sett and Rell, they are overloaded but not frustarting, with clear weakness and strength. And i gotta the same feeling form the Gwen when i tested her, overloaded but still pretty well balanced, at least for me. Keep up the good work i love your video !!!

[@inkromancer_studios]

"Despite most of them having *just a passive*..." [Laughs in Kai' Sa] While I certainly appreciate your unique point of view on this issue, it very much was something Riot could have prevented. Samira was unique through her personality, attitude, and appearance, she (and the other recent releases by proxy) didn't need 10 page .pdf files for their abilities...

[@pavelzinchenko952]

0:31 Nice flash, dude!

[@streptococo4735]

12:02 Riot employees: Write that down write that down!!!!!!!

[@atsukana1704]

What I find interesting is sometimes its not a champion being overloaded that makes them difficult to balance. One great example of that is azir. At his heart, azir is really a simple champion. Make soldier, move soldier, go to soldier. Make wall. Make turret. That’s pretty much it. Its simply how he interacts with the game that makes him absurd in pro play because the skill floor has been met and the requirement to make it past early can also be realized. But in the end all he does is kind of just auto stuff with some sandy bois.

[@joseruizdiaz9622]

I think the idea of having new, different champions with new and different abilities/gameplay doesn't mean those champions have to be overloaded. Sylas's development proved how, with new times and new technology, they can design and make reality a champion with a crazy idea that was once impossible. So it is possible to design new champions with innovative features and interactions without making them do 3 separate, individual actions at the same time in just 1 ability, not to mention the walls of text for each of those effects, I swear, it reminds me of yugioh.

[@Zanodia]

Viego is a mix of Yasuo, Master Yi, Eve, and Old Mord. Rell looks like an adaptation of high-noon Ashe with a basic Q skill shot, an aura that attaches to an all like Taric, a mobility ability that slows her and shields her, and an aoe ultimate that's like a nerfed version of old Galio. Lillia has Darius's old Q that was removed from the game for having no counterplay, she also has a "bleed" passive, she has a high damage hit in a small area like Aatrox Q 3, a long-range cone-shaped ability that's like Graves ult on steroids, and has aoe Zoe sleepy pills which could be compared to an ability such as morgana ultimate. It's a lot of recycled material.

[@alexsere3061]

I disagree with sett being overloaded. Maybe he is, but I never felt he could do anything like gnar. He's very honest, if get gets you he will pummel you, if you try to bring him down watch out for his W. He has very clear strength and weaknesses. He has damage, cc, reposition, a shield and true damage skillshot. Look at gnar on the other hand, he has move speed, a double jump, range, poke, global skillshot (revers boomerang), a teamfight ultimate, stuns, etc... Whenever I play against gnar I feel like I have to wait for him to fuck up because he can respond to whatever I throw at him. With sett, I feel like I have to treat him like any other juggernaut: don't let him get near you, don't fight him when his conditions are met and don't fight him when the BIG NO NO indicator tells you to run.

[@tupacshakur5868]

6:30 if you manage to compare garen with darius then you can for use compare rell to leona

[@myonwontstfu]

Some: are BY FAR MOST: No Easiest way to(usually) tell if the character is overloaded is to take a look at their kit and ask yourself if you can see the same stuff being fit in more than 3 useful abilities, a really strong one and a passive. The answer also answers "Is this character overloaded?" question Now I can watch the vid