Are Christians Evil? | Doug Wilson

[@BenjaminBowmanlive]

A foolish son brings grief to his father and bitterness to the mother who bore him.

[@billbeen9350]

I wish I could buy Abraham Piper's thoughts for what I think they're worth, and sell them for what HE thinks they're worth.

[@johnmoline8688]

I was this angry too when I was an atheist, but did I admit I was angry? Of course not--I thought I was witty and charming

[@DM-dk7js]

He’s not angry lol. Nor were you ever an atheist.

[@wishyouthebest9222]

@@DM-dk7js how do you know?

[@DM-dk7js]

@@wishyouthebest9222 because nobody goes from being an atheist to a theist. Only the other way around. He may have been agnostic. Definitely not atheist tho.

[@wishyouthebest9222]

@@DM-dk7js the words "nobody" and "only" are used here: Can you please elaborate and back up these claims?

[@aallen5256]

@@wishyouthebest9222 There aren’t any public figures I can find who were atheists and then converted to evangelical Christianity, do you know any? There’s two who converted to Hinduism!

[@n8mac876]

All of his giggling aside, Abraham doesn’t sound like he’s having fun. He fails to see the logical fallacies he commits as he argues against himself and his own positions. Sad that men like him have influence, would that he would repent.

[@EmmausChurchA29]

Praying for Abraham. Wow…

[@mary-janechambers3596]

Yes an evil worker cannot have real joy as that is a gift from God. “A backslider in heart will be filled with his own ways, but a good man will be satisfied from above.”Proverbs 14:14

[@DM-dk7js]

What logical fallacies did he commit? You forgot that part. I don’t think you actually know what that means.

[@TGoodie1717]

He commits a false equivalence fallacy when by comparing himself to God subjecting sinners to hell.

[@DM-dk7js]

@@TGoodie1717 no he doesn’t. Sure he isn’t god, but that doesn’t make the situations not analogous.

[@dbaldwin237]

Just another reminder to be praying for Abraham Piper

[@cj6814]

Abraham Piper: the overwhelming urge to give people what they deserve is one of the stupidest aspects of human nature. Me: so you desire to receive grace through faith in Jesus Christ today? Abraham Piper: absolutely not!

[@jpix96]

Yeah, the problem is that he still thinks he deserves grace so because of that he rejects it!!! But Paul said: "... there is none rightious, no, not one." Romans 3 : 10. So he actually doesn't deserve it and should follow his own logic!!! 😁

[@cj6814]

@@jpix96 to be honest their is a point I can see a atheist point of view to some degree, before I was a Christian I was a pretty nice guy, compassionate even. Here's the issue, God is light and in him is no darkness at all and he's looking for a bride sanctified, in support of what is good without spot or wrinkle. There's no room for darkness, there's no room for reasoning, there's no room for 72 genders and subjective morality. Of course a athiest might claim to be doing what they thought to be good but they have a concious that is going to tell on them, they will see how others hurt them and they hurt others and this continuous cycle that occurs if you don't bring it to the Lord. They will see the weights we all have put on people at times, putting people down, gossiping, bearing false witness, boasting and doing evil things in search for power and control. How awful it is going to be to see are own words, everything we ever said and how it effected someone, come back to us and we are going to be held accountable because that's just. We all are going to be needing the grace of God and the same grace they mock and say I'd never serve they will see truly loved them and they will weep finally being humbled knowing they deserve destruction and really blew the chances they got with this life. If God let a bunch of sinners in heaven unsanctified, unhumbled by grace, saying don't tell me how to live my life than heaven will once again be filled with pain and evil. We all have a choice to serve two masters and I've seen too much of God to even think he's not real or will not draw near to those that draw near to them. For all I know Abraham could be hurt by religion but I know God loves him and has not left Abraham without a knowing of him, Abraham has rejected God. I personally didn't know there was a God in confusion but I also stopped looking, didn't really care to push in to find out if there was more to this existence, I figured I had a pretty good plan myself to be honest. The question is, is there more to life than the high of life and things and is God going to separate light from darkness and good from evil. At any moment I could have decided to press into that and God made several attempts to get my attention hence why I here today a Christian. Destruction is deserved but grace is offered. I'd like to ask Abraham what good Adolph Hitler deserves form God provides he finds out he is real and doesn't he think many of the characteristics that Adolph Hitler possesses, including thinking he's superior to someone else, needs to brought to destruction? We have a God of mercy and grace giving us plenty of time to come to the light or stay loving the darkness. We all have taken part in the darkness so the choice is up to us to receive the washing only the Lord can do being made new or to stay in are filth refusing the washing being not fit for what is clean and pure in eternity having chosen to stay defiled. Tough to admit it but it really is a choice.

[@jpix96]

@@cj6814 Hmmm, i do think most of what you say is true. I'm only a bit worried about you saying that Abraham rejecting God. Why would we call it the God of Abraham, Isaak and Jacob. If Abraham would not follow this God? I mean he was even ready to sacrifice his only begotten son (from Sarah). Let me remind you that this son was promised by God even on there old age. He even believed God's promise of making a great people out of him and Sarah. He shows his trust by being ready to do what God asked (sacrificing his son), which wasn't needed in the end. But Abraham believed the promise of God and showed this by telling his son that God would deliver the sacrifice!!! I mean come on he knew Gods plan better than most of us in the 21e century. And he trusted God for the salvation! Abraham was saved through faith in God just like we are saved through faith in God!!! 🕊️❤️😇 P.s. in the end one of Abrahams sons is sacrificed it's only many generations later. 🐑✝️

[@cj6814]

@@jpix96 I'm talking about Abraham Piper, the person this video is about. Lol

[@jpix96]

@@cj6814 Hahahaha, sorry... I didn't pay attention to his name! 😅

[@thatsnotmyname7659]

I feel sad for him. I'm worried for his soul. We should all be praying for him 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

[@schaeffercox3158]

Do you think we should pray for the devil? His minions?

[@imb6068]

@@schaeffercox3158 Well if the devil had the possibility of becoming saved, yes. since he does not, and his minions do not, we should not. God can save any human he wants. Jesus's sacrifice was only for humans and not for angels and demons because then he would have to come in an angelic body to save the angels.

[@Michael_Chandler_Keaton]

Sometimes we need to recognize when all the signs of reprobation are there. This guy comes from a biblically grounded household and has heard the gospel from birth. He has actively rejected and hates the God that he knows exists. Likely a reprobate who's destiny is hell.

[@imb6068]

@@Michael_Chandler_Keaton Maybe so. But what if God in his great glory destined piper to have a radical transformation. It is not for us to say. Our responsibility is to pray for them.

[@thatsnotmyname7659]

@@Michael_Chandler_Keaton and that's in God's control but we can still pray that God softens his heart. I think there's a possibility that he was neglected (not intentionally or out of malice) due to his dad's fame and nobody has perfect theology and so maybe he has some misunderstandings that have led to questioning. Another possibility imo is that he felt afraid to ask questions and judged for doubting because there's a lot of pressure to be "perfect" to uphold an image for your parent and community. I'm not familiar with any verses that permit not praying for our enemies or the unsaved people we see as a lost cause. If I'm missing something, please advise. I will clarify that I'm open to correction on this - I'm not offended by your response or anything I just don't agree with the conclusion. That being said, I've only been a Christian for 2 years and so I can relate to the resentment he feels towards God as I was resentful in the past too and I'd hate to think people may have viewed me as being too far gone. 🤷🏼‍♀️

[@caitlin6151]

My heart goes out to John Piper, I have a son that is probably worse than this. Trying to love him is something that I can only do by the power of God thru the Holy Spirit.

[@JR-rs5qs]

John Piper is no victim of having an unbelieving son. John Piper reaped what he sowed through his pietism and his obvious lack of teaching his son Biblical truth. Abraham's criticisms are so rudimentary and childish, it's as if he wasn't taught a lick of doctrine.

[@rockycomet4587]

John Piper is pro-abortion in practice. Don't feel too sorry for him.

[@olamideadesina3506]

@@JR-rs5qs please can you be quiet?

[@olamideadesina3506]

@@JR-rs5qs who do you think you are? His my father able to save me? No, he isn't so stop talking this way. This is not typical of a Christian

[@JR-rs5qs]

@@olamideadesina3506 of course not, but it is a father's job to disciple his kids at least to the point that his kids understand the Gospel and the Bible.

[@Telkor]

Thank you Jesus for making it so I don't get what I deserve.

[@TheSaintFrenzy]

Preach!

[@ghosteyes2708]

This is why christianity is such a mind parasite. Imagine believing you ''deserve'' anything bad. This religion is making you weak and miserable. WAKE UP.

[@markchristian787]

This hurts to watch this. Even though I have issues with his dad (writting style, somewhat recent "woke" move) I still appreciate a lot of what hes done in his ministry. This is just a reminder I need to keep this guy in prayer more.

[@maxonmendel5757]

woke what?

[@markchristian787]

@@maxonmendel5757 You might be able to tell through his speaking engagements and sermons..probably somewhat recently (in the past few ys). You could also look at his pupil-Jason Meyer at Bethlehem.

[@CuteSceneChic]

If someone commits murder of an entire family including the child, and a judge convicts him to 45 life sentences without parol is that judge evil because only evil people can judge evil people and give them "what they deserve?" I'm slightly confused by what that man's point he is trying to make was. :/

[@wojak91]

Abraham has a debased mind and cannot understand things like justice.

[@tonyputman3398]

The murder deserves to be executed, not have his housing, clothing, meals and medical treatments paid by the taxpayers for the remaining years of his life... God bless y'all!!

[@shenanigansofmannanan]

He's making a moral judgment against God. That to "give an evil person what they deserve" that the same or worse actions must befall the sinner...therefor the one punishing the sinner is morally as/more depraved than the original sin.... basically... Abraham Piper thinks his father is a monster for spanking Abraham when he lied...or stole... Abraham doesn't like the black consequences of his actions and blames Yahweh for "allowing" him to sin....

[@emilyrl.]

I would never ever ever EVER want to reside in a place that is completely cut off from God. Even during the worst day of my life here I could not deny that although this is sometimes almost unbearable, this life in this place is a wonderful gift.

[@foghornleghorn262]

Hitler, and Stalin thought the same thing about people who resisted or disagreed with them. All the while, they thought they were doing humanity good.

[@Yesica1993]

Oh, this is so heartbreaking for Pastor John and his wife! I didn't know anything about John Piper's family until this guy's videos came along. I had no idea he had a son who hated Christ. (And apparently hates Christians too. The anger is dripping here.) I can't imagine how difficult this must be for the family.

[@jimflys2]

@Prey R Huh?

[@daltonadger6489]

@Prey R yes, we all know that every Amish child is numbered among the elect and none have ever rebelled against God or their parents. Also, how are you posting a KZbin comment from your Amish community? You guys do internet now?

[@s.e.garcia3635]

@Prey R Paul says otherwise in 1cor 5:10

[@JR-rs5qs]

John Piper is no victim of having an unbelieving son. John Piper reaped what he sowed through his pietism and his obvious lack of teaching his son Biblical truth. Abraham's criticisms are so rudimentary and childish, it's as if he wasn't taught a lick of doctrine.

[@SuperExodus13]

@Prey R why did you bother posting a comment on a video made by calvinists with calvinist fans. BTW, John Piper is a calvinist. Get off your high horse.

[@patrick_dy3r]

I really hate -- this way of talking -- on TikTok -- where you have to -- jump cut be -- tween -- every -- single -- wor-- d.

[@jawshh559]

It really makes you wonder if this self appointed translator of the divine has even a single thought clanging around in his head that isn’t half-baked.

[@shenanigansofmannanan]

"A fool does not delight in understanding, but only in airing his opinions. With a wicked man comes contempt as well, and shame is accompanied by disgrace." Proverbs 18:2-3 "A fool’s lips bring him strife, and his mouth invites a beating. A fool’s mouth is his ruin, and his lips are a snare to his soul." Proverbs 18:6-7

[@sorinankitt]

'Let all criminals go', is all I got out of Little Piper's rant.

[@rubenschoeman4880]

I have seen people burn other people to death while dancing and cheering because they are not of the same tribe. He obviously grew up very protected.

[@reganjeremiah08]

Yes, Ruben, good point. I thought the same thing. Though I have not personally seen humans burning other humans, I know it has occurred. Abraham's conception of human nature comes from the privilege he enjoys from living in a nation running on the fumes of its Christian heritage.

[@robertdouglas8895]

People have their own minds and decisions.

[@freespiritpearl89]

Humans are cold to the bone.

[@allcleanenterpise]

I love my dear Elder, get your labor on my dear brother. I appreciate your platform, may God keep and spur you on!!

[@NicholasPaulFranks]

Oh, Lord…please have mercy and reveal your loveliness to Abraham. 🙏

[@renlamomtsopoe]

Breaks my heart 💔

[@Kyle_Hessler]

Im telling yall right now. For Grace Agenda have 1 Live studio episode of Doug Reacts. I'd pay money for that ticket!

[@countrysidefilms3860]

1:32-40 Best Doug Wilson laugh ever.

[@blsdanielmunster2449]

Doug, I don't think that the scare quotes around "deserve" are there to question the idea that people "deserve" this or not. It's to contest the claim that anyone "deserves" hell.

[@robertdouglas8895]

We deserve to be taught to correct our ideas. Punishing people make terrible teachers. Love doesn't punish; fear does. ” "There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love."

[@ter8330]

I wonder if Pastor Doug and his wife laugh together alot? He's pretty damn witty!

[@michaellautermilch9185]

Language

[@MrTheclevercat]

Flat Earth creationists still mad that people think their religion is evil.

[@deejitv]

I wonder when it will dawn on Abraham Piper that he is ironically taking after his dad by preaching to/evangelizing people? I guess there are just some things you just cannot escape...like God (Ps. 139:7).

[@timorean320]

Well, 1st I would ask, "What is your metric?" How do you even know what evil is?

[@eastbay_bay]

My guess is that this is tied up in some personal issues for Abraham, not the true word of God or the Gospel.

[@scottfw7169]

Excellent point.

[@bnato8209]

Pastor Wilson, what do you think about the doctrine of covenant succession in Piper's case?? Is it not unbiblical to baptize babies of believers and consider those babies part of the church waiting their full confession of faith?? Thank you.

[@dabhidhm4093]

Don't all churches that practice infant baptism also practice confirmation, which is when a person makes a full confession of faith? If course Piper also was probably confirmed at one point, but he is manifestly now in a state of apostasy. That doesn't say anything to invalidate infant baptism or confirmation.

[@cosmictreason2242]

@@dabhidhm4093 it beggars the question of what his baptism accomplished or signifies

[@dabhidhm4093]

@@cosmictreason2242 Not really - people can apostatize whether they were baptized as infants or adults. I don't think any church teaches that infant baptism seals a person forever. I certainly know some people who were baptized as adults and yet have slipped into apostasy. Whether they will ultimately return or not is not yet known, but it ain't looking good.

[@cosmictreason2242]

@@dabhidhm4093 the sound Presbyterian churches don’t say explicitly that baptism increases the likelihood a kid will be saved, but I think they cross the line of expecting that, in practice. If both infant and adult baptism aren’t protective against apostasy, what is the greater benefit of infant baptism over adult baptism? The begged question would seem to be answered, “it gives them a better shot,” and I think that’s subtly heretical

[@cosmictreason2242]

@@dabhidhm4093 you could point out that while both modes of baptism may baptize the unregenerate, infant baptism baptizes the unregenerate 100% of the time

[@lukedornon7799]

"I'm such a good person, I could never cause someone else pain even to justly punish them for doing wrong" That right there is the moral philosophy underlying the parenting that has created several generations full of Abraham Pipers...

[@robertdouglas8895]

Love doesn't punish; fear does. ” "There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love."

[@JenniferoftheSea]

What?

[@rickl4159]

@@robertdouglas8895 A loving father disciplines his children for their protection and wisdom

[@robertdouglas8895]

@@rickl4159 I use the above verse as the definition of punishment. "There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love." Discipline is teaching. Do you think Jesus punished or disciplined his disciples? Children are our disciples. I spanked my son once in his life when he started to run across a street without looking because he wouldn't have understood words. I had no need for him to fear me.

[@robertdouglas8895]

@@rickl4159 I await your reply.

[@leonpope861]

This young man is Wise in His own Conceit.He is disconnected from the rot, inimicus, gaffe, harm, toxicity in our world.If he spent time in Kensing- ton in the Philadelphia,Pennsylvania area,instead of producing this rumination content that is only produce to salve his guilt,to pump up his pride,he might have the scales removed from his 👁👁👀, the clog from his 👂👂👂👂,the veil from his 💔, and the vexation from his 🧠.Seems he is rueful of the Gospel 🥳🤯🤡🤖😳

[@stephenwells1559]

Because people who kill for fun will stop killing for fun if we simply removed punitive justice 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

[@stephenwells1559]

I notice Doug actually did a real facepalm 🤦‍♂️ whilst watching this 😄

[@aallen5256]

Doesn’t sound like people who kill for fun are particularly inhibited by punitive justice as is! Maybe some sort of treatment / rehabilitation might work better than punitive punishment.. 🤔

[@stephenwells1559]

@@aallen5256 to a point. God requires us to deal with others the same way as He deals with us. That is with correction, forgiveness for those who REPENT and ask for forgiveness, second chances, turning the other cheek and mercy. But ultimately those who take no responsibility for their evil deeds, He destroys. The penalty for murder is execution. The penalty for rejecting God is Hell. This keeps most of us in line. The ones who aren’t kept in line are ultimately removed from society permanently for the good of everyone else.

[@aallen5256]

@@stephenwells1559 Execution is also the penalty for cursing your parents, or striking them, for adultery, violating the sabbath and a host of other things! Truly bloodthirsty. If it's only the threat of hell that keeps you from murdering then you should probably see a therapist...

[@tyc4587]

Abraham really thought he did something lol

[@ridethelapras]

Anyone who just walks around filming themselves on their phone, and thinks they are doing something special, is truly misguided.

[@danbrown586]

Does he seriously not believe in punishment of any kind, at all? Because that's really the only consistent way to interpret his words.

[@RevBrettMurphy]

He seems like such an unhappy and sad man. May God bring him to true and saving faith, he knows the truth I pray he returns to it fully.

[@War-Daddy]

Abraham’s problem is that he can’t see his sin. If he could see his sin clearly, God’s holiness and wrath would make sense.

[@SirWalrusButt556]

True. Sadly he's blinded. May God redeem Him if He so chooses...

[@TomPlantagenet]

I guess according to him, prisons should be emptied out?

[@tedkijeski339]

I see the title Are Christians Evil? | Doug Wilson and I think, “Okay, let’s get the stopwatch and see how long it takes for DW to use the phrase, ‘By what standard?’” ANS: He did not use the phrase! In a 4-minute video! I don’t think I’ve ever seen that before.

[@deeds7529]

Wonder if this mindset is due to him being afraid of getting what he deserves- which is hell as the rest of us..

[@sorinankitt]

Little Piper doesn't like the fact that he is not in control and his worldly actions are catching up to him.

[@colina4699]

Some needs to get DW a microfiber cleaning cloth for that laptop lol

[@judahmarx9742]

Praying for Abraham's prodigal son revelation. Pig food or return to a loving Father. When he returns, he will be so on fire for the God he now hates. Like Saul of Tarsus.

[@icelineman]

He doesn't understand justice

[@aallen5256]

What does “serious theology” think about hell??

[@cosmictreason2242]

Beyond the presence of flames, it isn’t speculated what the nature of the torment is, unlike Dante’s Inferno which influences most peoples ideas

[@aallen5256]

@@cosmictreason2242 okay, so there's not enough specificity in the Bible (lakes of fire and sulphur, wailing, gnashing of teeth but no taxonomy of sin to punishment or anything like that) so "serious theologies don't think that way at all" (1:14) - I'm still not sure what Doug is suggesting the serious theologian do think though... Doug believes in the garden, believes the earth was made in six days and is 6000 years old, but doesn't believe in Hell as a physical place of deathless torture? I'm just not sure what he's saying. Serious theologians know that they can't know?

[@cosmictreason2242]

@@aallen5256 yes it’s a physical place of “deathless torture,” it is not a place of having molten gold poured down your throat, being roasted over a spit, flayed with cat-o-nine-tails, chewed on by monsters, dismembered and re-membered, etc. Any of those things could happen but it’s too speculative. The only thing the rich man complained about to Abraham was thirst and pain from being “in this fire”

[@aallen5256]

@@cosmictreason2242 well fire and thirst certainly make sense as the conception of hell for a desert dwelling people, like how Hel in Norse paganism is all ice and darkness! So the position of the serious theologian is that it’s a physical place (where??) of ambiguous death-less torture? Is that fair to say?

[@cosmictreason2242]

@@aallen5256 your first statement is abysmally poor. They have trees in Israel, too. Even snow. That’s just really painfully bad. I’m embarrassed for you

[@anaquaduck5252]

Surely we want justice, an action against evil, not just words. However we should leave it to God for justice and or vengeance. As hard as it can be at times as we struggle with this and that.

[@NathanMarchandAuthor]

What if someone "deserves" something good? Say, they repent of their sin and turn to Christ. Should they not get that?

[@cosmictreason2242]

The WHOLE point is that it’s not what you deserve. You don’t earn salvation by repentance, that is a huge mistake to think! Repentance is a gift from God. Imagine if you return a gift to sender and expect them to be pleased and reward you for giving them what they already gave to you. It would be extremely offensive.

[@glfriendliness9793]

Also, if a person who committed petty theft is given the same condemnation as a genocidal murderer by an all knowing, all loving, all powerful god, then that god isn’t worthy of worship.

[@razegaming1686]

You seem to think that they wasn't condemned already

[@zapazap]

Remember friends: *Unregenerate trolls* are best left unfed. Except perhaps with a cookie.

[@theresa42213]

l was praying for Abraham yesterday, so its interesting that he made a video today. l think Abe really hated the idea of hell when he was a professing Christian. l dont like the description of hell either ...so l was told that the only way to avoid God's judgment is to go to the only one that could save me from it. God Himself .

[@SirWalrusButt556]

Nobody should like the idea of hell.... That's the point lol.

[@DM-dk7js]

@@SirWalrusButt556 agreed. Absolutely nobody should condone the idea of punishing people for all of eternity for holding different world views then you. How disgusting.

[@SirWalrusButt556]

@@DM-dk7js all you do is scroll Doug Wilson's videos and comment and troll on them. Why? We know you don't like anything anyone has to say about biblical truth.

[@anthonyb.2876]

Another atheist trying to make a living and a name off the very thing he claims to hate.

[@briancasey4917]

Guys like Abraham Piper live inside their own hypocrisy constantly chasing their own tails.

[@thecrypt5823]

The Bible says that obedience begets knowledge, and sin induces stupidity. That's all I'm going to say about that.

[@mike16apha16]

so i guess all those people that convicted rapist and serial killers to jail are evil themselves. learn something new every day

[@fritzd2116]

Sounds like Piper is in a dark place? I hope he will get right with the Lord.

[@Henry._Jones]

Abraham Piper: "This is super-fun, right?" . . . well, yeah, it is, once Doug gets ahold of it. 😁

[@chrisroberts313]

Where does everything go on this planet over time? Sucked into the earth and spat out of volcanoes.

[@thrivewithjesus5216]

What happened in Piper's home? I am so selfish for asking this question, but the terrified parent in me wants to know what happened or what did NOT happen so Abraham ended up going this route? He is asking and making fun of some of the most basic questions that I was asking as a seeker in my 20's, but my father was not... John Piper!!!! I just do not understand, what in the world happened here. What was missed? What was said OR not said? What went wrong?

[@SirWalrusButt556]

Not selfish to ask, but also, many forget God is the one who redeems people. He could've grown up with all the best teaching, solid theology, etc but when you aren't actually redeemed, soon enough the true self comes out, and you're seeing it in him. Perhaps John didn't teach him well, who knows, but John Piper also can't redeem his son, only THEE SON can do that.

[@cosmictreason2242]

Proof of total depravity. It’s not a lack of knowledge or intelligence that results in this

[@scottcarter1689]

A couple things are foundational Abraham's resentment... But if you scan over cyber forums- and how Piper has been persecuted because of his unwillingness to vote for "Jesus as a Republican" in support of Trump... Abraham has seen his dad get death threats throughout years of his ministry for preaching the sovereignty of God amidst Arminian man-centered theological culture... And now the latest proving of the vitriolic nature of right-wing christianity's persecution of Piper now... which proves that Abraham's resentment is founded. Capitalisms benefit that God has historically implemented in this country for the springboard of the Gospel in modern nations, has bread right-wing Christians that don't (realize) understand that when God regenerates someone, they don't automatically become Republican that day. Geographical incidences and socio-economic localities which God has placed with his people ("I have many people in this city"... Acts 18) are in linear time and require the activism of inspiring and reorienting people's hearts. It's actually becoming embarrassing to be right-wing and Christian for someone who has Gospel sensibilities. This is a primary reason why Tim Keller says things that seem outrageous... and that's because Christianity is like a fish that doesn't realize "wetness". And lastly from Abraham's imminent/experiential perspective, he has first-person narrative experience of the atrocities within Christianity's persecution of its own people (other Christians)... And has the theological acumen to know that the things he says are outlandish to Christians and insight indignance. It's the ability to push the right buttons. If he were theologically ignorant it wouldn't be so effective. But this self-fulfilling nature of Christian self-persecution is the proving of Abraham's point which then gets confirmed by Tick Tock audience that is an affirmation of 'a calling" and reiteration of the resentment that is actually being proven even within this comment section in the persecution of Piper even here. It's a vicious cycle of human depravity attestation... ....and the more Christians treat each other- like is the case with Christianity's intra-condemnation- along with the increasing bombasticism of atheism from a biblically-understood greater proportion of unbelieving humanity, ...the more Abraham is getting affirmed for a seemingly accurate appraisal of Christianity (that stunningly and embarrassingly is not wrong!). Sin proves the validity of Abraham's resentment as well as the validity of Christian doctrine- simultaneously. "This is famously the Reformed demonstration of the "impossibility of the contrary"... and it holds true! Anyway... hopefully this sheds light on the Abraham Piper situation. Abraham's (as well as the other biblical patriarchs families) are replete with examples of belief and unbelief within their structure... And a convincing argument could be made that- especially in light of modern culture's amenity, pastoral families -in which all the kids are believers... is more an example of false conversion- then flawless parenting. The self-fulfilling moral amenity of American evangelicalism, lends itself to the unproven veracity of "belief" that someone like Richard Wurmbrand endured and was proven by the Holy Spirit. I would say that's what we're headed for- and in danger of- now. ✝️

[@johnkw47]

Thanks, Doug for your insights. However, you made fun of his thought experiment partly because of its sophomoricness, and said something like Abraham Piper should really interact with more sophisticated Christian thought on the matter of the torment of the damned. But does it matter? No matter how sophisticated you get (and I assume you don't hold to the modern Evangelical default that rather than God sending people to the lake of fire, they damn themselves by their choices), it boils down to the fact that God will subject some of His creatures to eternal torment, eternally. As in forever. As in, "In 1000 years this agony will be just getting started." Perhaps Piper's making a point that he doesn't have to be sophisticated, that it really does boil down to someone holding someone else in the fire. What kind of nuance can be applied that will take away the fact that God will be eternally enforcing the eternal (did I mention that?) torment of some of His creatures? Jesus did engage in rhetoric that compared God to finite creatures. "What father among you, if his son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead." He did this more than once. It seems like you're disqualifying Abraham's argument precisely because he's comparing sinful human creatures to the perfectly good and almighty God. Let me double down like Jesus: "If you then, *being evil*, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more then shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!" So even the Son of God compares (not "contrasts") God to evil people. Why can't Abraham Piper?

[@MunsterBoarders]

Anyone else hear, “another video from Abraham Kuyper”? I was a bit disappointed.

[@pipermaisiemae1999]

He is saying that no real person with feelings and emotions could torture someone in that way. The God you believe in is a monster. It's pretty simple to understand.

[@MFPWM2010]

He is ruled by his hatred and anger. Unfortunately this will inevitably have severe negative consequences on his life. But like many, God uses these tragedies to open your eyes, humble you, and eventually bring you to submission.

[@jeanettejeanette1199]

LOL "We're good!" Ummm... by what standard? hahaha

[@sid5ofus]

has John Piper reached out to you about his son?

[@JR-rs5qs]

seems Piper hasn't even reached out to his own son with Biblical truth...ever

[@SirWalrusButt556]

@@JR-rs5qs how would you even know that?

[@JR-rs5qs]

@@SirWalrusButt556 principle of deduction...I'm being hyperbolic though. I'm sure he was taught some Biblical truth. What I'm getting at is it is obvious that Abraham is not even swatting at an accurate depiction of true Christianity. It would be one thing to know what the Bible claims and then trying to refute it but he seems to not even understand the basic truth claims of the Bible. Growing up in the home of a prominent pastor, one would believe these basic truth claims would be known by someone who grew up in that home, but it appears they aren't. Discipling kids is hard, I get it, but a man's first loyalty to discipleship is within the home, no matter how large of a platform one has.

[@SirWalrusButt556]

@@JR-rs5qs I would agree. My problem was it's hard to make that assumption (in my opinion at least) because I've heard stories over the years of guys having pretty solid upbringings theologically speaking and they also apostatize. I guess my qualm is, is he this stupid on basic logic and Biblical Christianity because he wasn't taught well or is it because he's now full blown apostate and has bought into illogical/irrational lies of the world? Also, if God hasn't actually gifted him with faith, then he could know all the truth he wanted but would he make such stupid claims even if apostate? Most likely not...so you're probably right on this.

[@cosmictreason2242]

Why would he or would he have to sid

[@DASales-yh3gj]

So it seems to me that he calls evil what God calls justice, that is, punishing sinners for their sins. In other words, God is evil for giving us what we deserve and calls it in his own word BS. He failed to understand that God is just and good, if he allows evil people to not get punish, he will be unjust and immoral. Imagine what this guy is saying if a father of a little girl who got raped and murdered says to the judge, “The one who rape and murder my daughter shall get punish!” Now imagine if the judge says, “I’m not evil, therefore I will not punish the one who rape and murder your daughter. Only “evil” judge punish evil people.” Look at the futility of his argument. This man is claiming to be wise and moral but became a fool. You think it is fun to not punish criminals? You have no idea what fathers feel when their daughter was murdered by this evil people. He’s laughter makes me sick. Is everything not serious to you? He also failed to understand that God doesn’t want sinners to be punish, but desire that everyone will repent and see the beauty of His Son on the cross, where he took the punishment that we deserve on Himself, so that we might live and be with God who loved us. To this end, I pray that this man repent and see the beauty and justice of God, revealed perfectly on the cross on Christ.

[@waitwhat3148]

He overly enjoys pot.

[@SheevPalpatine66420]

Deliberant obscurantism at work people

[@banemaler]

Would you please consider a review of the claims against the reformation Jonathan Paguae made on Mikahla Peterson's podcast. That video had close to 400k views when I last looked. Why haven't you been invited to her podcast yet. Seems she is scouring the net to ground her new found faith.

[@bradspitt3896]

He could probably talk to Jonathan, would be cool. EO is like another world to many protestants.

[@bradspitt3896]

@Prey R The search for truth precedes the repentance...

[@bradspitt3896]

@Prey R Now we're in the realm of conspiracy theory: predetermined guilt. Christians are charitable, which doesn't just apply to money.

[@bradspitt3896]

@Prey R You're making accusations about intent. It's epistemically impossible to know, and not Christ-like. You don't know the heart of another man/woman. You can critique actions sure, reading their mind is acting like God.

[@bradspitt3896]

@Prey R You can only do so after a confession, you don't know intent prior to that.

[@jonathandoran2623]

I see. So earthly Judges are now evil too?

[@michaellautermilch9185]

There are fools, and then there are fools who take it upon themselves to teach others to be foolish with them. James 3 has strong words for those, like Abraham and Doug both, who teach others. The only difference is that Pastor Doug is not teaching lies and Abraham is. Let's thank God for good Bible teachers, but be careful yourself, whenever you start talking to others trying to teach them something.

[@freedomstream1506]

If you are capable of burning someone alive you are evil, no matter what that person did, no matter what crime they committed. If you can push someone into a lake of fire from which there is no escape for all eternity, you are evil. There is no one more evil than you. Period. This video is not difficult to understand but it's good fun reading the comments to see how Christians are able to twist and turn to avoid the unwanted information. Doug could do it. He's a really good Christian.

[@benjaminperez1149]

AP sounds insane.

[@stevemassengill9236]

Abraham piper doesn’t deserve his first name

[@PaxMundi118]

Can one know that John Piper will be delivered from hell?

[@caroldonaldson4565]

At 40 yrs of age - and looking every day of it - he's the oldest stroppy adolescent I've ever seen! His rantings just look & sound ridiculous in one so old - clearly a late developer!🤦‍♀️😇

[@royhiggins7270]

Observation: Things most American Christians love more than Jesus. 1. Guns 2. Fetuses 3. Billionaires 4. Nationalism 5. Owning Libs

[@BrandonCorley109]

"Justice is stupid" - Abraham Piper

[@mexvantil7523]

Yes and no.

[@freespiritpearl89]

I’m going back to God.

[@MrGoodrat]

DOES HELL BURN FOREVER? Many people claim that God is unjust because He burns and tortures men forever as the punishment for sin. Like Abraham, these souls are asking the question, “Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?” (Gen. 18:25). It seems unjust to have an everlasting torture for a temporary sin. So what does the Bible say on this subject? First there seems to be a contradiction between what the Bible says about hellfire and what it says about the punishment for sin. Notice that Jesus calls hellfire “EVERLASTING fire, prepared for the devil and his angels” (Matt. 25:41). So one would assume the Bible does teach that the wicked will burn forever. But then, on the other hand, the Bible says the wages of sin is death, not eternal torture (Romans 6:23), and on top of that, when describing hellfire itself it calls it the second DEATH and says that death itself will be the final enemy destroyed in hell: “Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death” (Revelation‬ ‭20:14‬). So what’s the deal? Is hellfire everlasting or are the wicked finally killed in hellfire? The answer is: BOTH. How so? Where does hellfire come from? It comes from God out of heaven (Rev. 20:9). This is because “our God is a consuming fire” (Heb. 12:29). If God is eternal, then that fire which comes from Him is also eternal. This is just as Jesus said. But who is it that will live for eternity in that fire of God’s? Is it the wicked? Notice: “The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness has seized the hypocrites: Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? Who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings? He who walks righteously and speaks uprightly, He who despises the gain of oppressions, Who gestures with his hands, refusing bribes, Who stops his ears from hearing of bloodshed, And shuts his eyes from seeing evil” (Isaiah‬ ‭33:14, 15‬). It is the RIGHTEOUS that dwell in everlasting burnings forevermore because they dwell in God’s presence forever. Remember: “For the wages of sin is DEATH, but the gift of God is ETERNAL LIFE through Jesus Christ our Lord” (Rom. 6:23). It is those who believe in and obey Jesus who gain eternal life, not the wicked. The wicked are destroyed or CONSUMED by God’s fire. That is why He is called a CONSUMING fire. Sin is destroyed in His presence along with those who cling to it. So is the punishment for sin everlasting torture or death? It is death. The fire that consumes sin is everlasting for it is from God who is everlasting, but the wicked are consumed by it and turned to ASHES according to Malachi 4:1-3. The fire is everlasting, the wicked are destroyed by it and put to an eternal death, and the righteous are the ones living eternally in God’s fire with God joyfully forever. It was Satan’s first lie to say that if we sin we would not surely die (Gen. 3:4), and sadly the majority of the Christian world has continued this lie by stating that the wages of sin is an eternal life of torture, instead of death. God is just. He is not willing that any should perish, but all come to repentance (2 Pet. 3:9). But He also allows us to make our own choice of life or death (John 3:17-19). Sin is suffering and must be destroyed. God has made a way of escape, but must in the end destroy those who refuse to let go of sin. Murderers, rapists, liars, and the like cannot continue forever for God is just. Thus hellfire will cleanse the world of sin. But God is no tyrant, and it will not last forever. Once sin and those who cling to it are destroyed, suffering will cease. This is the true teaching on hellfire according to the Bible. “And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away” (Revelation‬ ‭21:4).

[@mytreasuredcreations]

This is really interesting and insightful. Tku for sharing.

[@MrGoodrat]

@@mytreasuredcreations Praise the Lord. God is love and takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked. But part of His love is justice and He will give people the consequences of their own choices. But He doesn’t torture them for eternity and that makes me love Him all the more. Let me know if you want any more info or online Bible studies about wonderful Bible truths that reveal God’s love. By the way I want to go fully whole food, plant based myself, though I have struggles with it. Glad you are able to do it!

[@cosmictreason2242]

@@MrGoodrat you’re in danger if you haven’t already apostatized. If death is annihilation then the second death and second resurrection make no sense. Hell, heaven, and GOD go on for the same amount of time: the word aeon, eternal, is used for all three. Hell is forever because God is forever

[@MrGoodrat]

@@cosmictreason2242 Yes, hellfire is eternal because God is eternal. That’s what I wrote in my op. But the Bible is equally clear that hellfire consumes sinners, ends them, and turns them to ashes as I’ve shown above. God’s consuming fire is eternal, but sinners are not. The wages of sin is death. The gift of God is eternal life. Sinners are not immortal. Only God is (1 Tim. 6:16). And He gives eternal life as a gift to those who receive Jesus. Sinners receive the second death, according to the scriptures. You have to take the totality of the scriptures on any given subject to fully understand. God bless.

[@cosmictreason2242]

@@MrGoodrat you are wrong, The sinner is not turned to ash. You condemn yourself with your final comment because you are guilty of not doing what you say

[@BiffScooterIII]

i understand why John Piper is over the top jellyfish-like with sin and sinners now. Poor guy.

[@JR-rs5qs]

yep, Piper reaped what he sowed within his own family. His pietism, unnecessary dramatic flourishes and effeminacy are plaguing the American evangelical church.

[@damianwhite504]

@@JR-rs5qs unnecessary dramatic flourishes.. you are right there. Sometimes he looks like he is having a siezure

[@christianuniversalist]

EARTH TO DOUG: the problem is Calvinism.

[@robertdouglas8895]

We know sinners don't exist when we forgive, everyone according to Jesus. Matt 12.7 If you had known what these words mean, 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice,' you would not have condemned the innocent. Love doesn't punish; fear does. ” "There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love."

[@ThereforeGo]

In his worldview there is no such thing as “evil” so he is borrowing from Christianity to pass this judgment.

[@simonbelmont1986]

He who has mercy on a unrepentant murderer will have his life on the line. He who has mercy on those who loves his lying tongue risks his own reputation. But mercy for a broken and contrite hearted has saved his soul. And your own.

[@freedomstream1506]

Oh, Doug, you're always good for a moment of hard cringe. You're the sour candy of Christian conservatism.

[@Syed_12]

( Do Christians And Jews and "OTHER" non-Muslims go to Heaven? ) Quran 2:62 '' Those who believe (in the Quran) and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures) and the Christians and the Sabians->ANYAllah< Is The Protector Of Monasteries, Churches, Synagogues And The Mosques ) Quran 22:40 [They are] those who have been evicted from their homes without right - only because they say, " Our Lord is God " And were it not that God checks the people, some by means of others, there would have been demolished monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques in which the name of God is much mentioned. And God will surely support those who support Him. Indeed, God is Powerful and Exalted in Might. Note: Why did Allah protected Churches and Synagogues if they worship false Allah ? ( Why Are There So Many Different Religions In The World ? ) Quran 5 48 ''...... If God wanted He could have made all of you a single nation.( ie single religion ) But He willed otherwise in order to test you in what He has given you (ie Scriptures) therefore try to excel one another in good deeds. Ultimately you all shall return to God then He will show you the truth of those matters in which you '' >DISPUTE verb < not noun like other religions Islam mean "submission" to God ( The above verse saying is that God will not accept a religion from the >MUSLIM< and the Non-Muslims but total "submission" to God ) Question: How Can Muslim And the Non-Muslim "submit" to the God? Answer: Be kind to other human beings and Do not lie, Do not steal, Do not cheat, Do not hurt others, Do not be prideful and Do the charity work. Note: If you obeyed all the ABOVE Allah-God's moral laws "YOU" submitted to God.( ie Islam mean "submission" to God ) The only people who will enter Paradise those who '' Submitted to God '' ( ie by good deeds ) God does NOT accept your religion of birth but only ''Your Total'' Submission to Him. ( God Allows Interfaith Marriages And Eat Food From the Christian And Jew And Vice Versa ) Quran 5:5 ''This day [all] good foods have been made lawful, and the food of those who were given the Scripture (ie Christian and Jew) is lawful for you and your food is lawful for them. And [lawful in marriage are] chaste women from among the believers (ie Muslim ) and chaste women from among those who were given the Scripture (ie Christian and Jew) before you, when you have given them their due compensation, desiring chastity not unlawful sexual intercourse or taking [secret] lovers. And whoever denies the faith - his work has become worthless and he in the Hereafter will be among the losers.'' Note: > Only < Islam allows interfaith marriages (>14 hundredsSame God< but They are >ALL Corrupt< more or less, some more than others from their original foundational teaching. The older religion are MORE corrupted than newer religion. Question to Muslim and Christian: Does God / Allah only answer your pray ? And God / Allah does not answer non Muslim / non Christian pray? Did Allah '' Canceled '' all other religions Judaism and Christianity? Quran 5:48 '' And We have revealed to you [O Muhammad] the Book in truth, confirming that which preceded it of the Scripture ( ie New and old Testament ) and as a criterion over it. So judge between them by what Allah has revealed and do not follow their inclinations away from what has come to you of the truth. >>>TO EACH OF YOU WE PRESCRIBED A LAW AND A METHODone nation>differ qualified < for to enter Paradise ) On the day of judgement God will ''NOT'' judge humanity bases on Sunni Muslim sect VS Shia Muslim sect ''NOR'' by Muslim VS non-Muslim >but< Doer of Goods VS Doer of Evils. '' YOUR " birth in the Muslim's family is NOT a > qualification < for to enter the Paradise. '' YOUR " religion / sect / foot long beard is NOT a > qualification < for to enter the Paradise. The > qualification < to enter Paradise is > Faith in God and Good Work

[@cosmictreason2242]

Bye heretic. He who does not have the Son does not have the father

[@manynoree2173]

Do U believe in literal worms in hell

[@cosmictreason2242]

“Their worm does not die” is an idiomatic phrase meaning they won’t be physically annihilated, but will continue to suffer physically forever

[@manynoree2173]

@@cosmictreason2242 thanks for your reply I see now...spose was thinking if hell is literal fire(notsayingthat)than why not literal worm

[@cosmictreason2242]

@@manynoree2173 sure but the descriptions of fire aren’t idiomatic but vividly descriptive, see the rich man and Lazarus

[@manynoree2173]

@@cosmictreason2242 is proverbs 25:22 referring to literal hot coals..(I know it's not)I just assumed that when.CHRIST spoke of Fire of hell it was in the same way....(but I don't think it matters to much... it's very terrible either way)

[@kevinhook6000]

Poor guy

[@shenanigansofmannanan]

"I have come to ignite a fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled! But I have a baptism to undergo, and how distressed I am until it is accomplished! Do you think that I have come to bring peace to the earth? No, I tell you, but division. From now on, five in one household will be divided, three against two and two against three. They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law." Luke 12:49-53

[@CuteSceneChic]

Ahh yes, not every peice of scripture is an easy read. But none the less very important to take in and understand what it means, not from a human point of veiw but of God's point of veiw.

[@sauronsrighthandman301]

@@CuteSceneChic That, and it's easy to make any piece of scripture look suspect or, dare I say, "Wrong", when taken out of context.

[@shenanigansofmannanan]

@@sauronsrighthandman301 please elaborate your point and it's connection/relevance to the overall context of my comment in relation to the original video? I don't disagree on your statement in Proximity to the topic but I'm struggling to find a way to move forward on this specific line of reasoning. Sincerely, I'm trying to understand what/how your contribution can be engaged in a way we can all work and benefit from. Thanks for your understanding

[@shenanigansofmannanan]

@@CuteSceneChic sometimes you just gotta sit back.... and watch the chess game unfold.... when the opponent knows a move is coming... and there's absolutely nothing they can do to stop it...it's masterful...

[@sauronsrighthandman301]

@@shenanigansofmannanan It's just that sometimes I'll see people try to make a point (people other than you, you're doing great) that use verses to try to argue their point while entirely missing the point due to lack of context. (Such as Hebrews 6:4-6 as evidence for losing your salvation, while ignoring/missing the context) Looking at my comment it may come across as an attack on you, but I didn't really mean it in that way.

[@scatoutdebutter]

After doing such a good/helpful job of dismantling all his statements/conclusions/logic... that last "No :)" was a little bit of a cheap shot! :)

[@davidjakob9062]

You really have circelt in on John Pipers son.

[@Puhleeeez]

Christain hellfire is real. I pray God spares Abraham Piper from it. But, I'm pretty sure that hat is goin in.

[@DM-dk7js]

No it isn’t.

[@mickeyt1593]

These guys

[@Kylecombes4]

This is fun, huh, 😂

[@redmane_0725]

His anger is symptomatic of inescapable guilt. Abraham, come to Jesus, and live.

[@justmefl7045]

Just another angry little boy living in his self-made world of importance.

[@michaelbee2165]

Typical self righteous unbeliever who places his own standard above that of God.

[@damianwhite504]

Abie boy is a great thinker and theologian

[@graysonhoward1562]

I always believed that God's mercy is limitless, and as long as you choose to accept it, your evil actions will be redeemed. Therefore, I think hell is a place that you send yourself. It's a room locked from the inside. I'm not God, so I could very easily be wrong about this though.

[@joetaylor1976]

We can all say the concept of Hell is still pretty sick. At some point you think God would let up a bit.

[@mcdoublenfries7412]

Perhaps when man would stop sinning. Why do we think the wicked will be sanctified upon their death? That is a gift to His people only Also, sin is pretty sick. Gods justice is not

[@MrGoodrat]

DOES HELL BURN FOREVER? Many people claim that God is unjust because He burns and tortures men forever as the punishment for sin. Like Abraham, these souls are asking the question, “Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?” (Gen. 18:25). It seems unjust to have an everlasting torture for a temporary sin. So what does the Bible say on this subject? First there seems to be a contradiction between what the Bible says about hellfire and what it says about the punishment for sin. Notice that Jesus calls hellfire “EVERLASTING fire, prepared for the devil and his angels” (Matt. 25:41). So one would assume the Bible does teach that the wicked will burn forever. But then, on the other hand, the Bible says the wages of sin is death, not eternal torture (Romans 6:23), and on top of that, when describing hellfire itself it calls it the second DEATH and says that death itself will be the final enemy destroyed in hell: “Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death” (Revelation‬ ‭20:14‬). So what’s the deal? Is hellfire everlasting or are the wicked finally killed in hellfire? The answer is: BOTH. How so? Where does hellfire come from? It comes from God out of heaven (Rev. 20:9). This is because “our God is a consuming fire” (Heb. 12:29). If God is eternal, then that fire which comes from Him is also eternal. This is just as Jesus said. But who is it that will live for eternity in that fire of God’s? Is it the wicked? Notice: “The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness has seized the hypocrites: Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? Who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings? He who walks righteously and speaks uprightly, He who despises the gain of oppressions, Who gestures with his hands, refusing bribes, Who stops his ears from hearing of bloodshed, And shuts his eyes from seeing evil” (Isaiah‬ ‭33:14, 15‬). It is the RIGHTEOUS that dwell in everlasting burnings forevermore because they dwell in God’s presence forever. Remember: “For the wages of sin is DEATH, but the gift of God is ETERNAL LIFE through Jesus Christ our Lord” (Rom. 6:23). It is those who believe in and obey Jesus who gain eternal life, not the wicked. The wicked are destroyed or CONSUMED by God’s fire. That is why He is called a CONSUMING fire. Sin is destroyed in His presence along with those who cling to it. So is the punishment for sin everlasting torture or death? It is death. The fire that consumes sin is everlasting for it is from God who is everlasting, but the wicked are consumed by it and turned to ASHES according to Malachi 4:1-3. The fire is everlasting, the wicked are destroyed by it and put to an eternal death, and the righteous are the ones living eternally in God’s fire with God joyfully forever. It was Satan’s first lie to say that if we sin we would not surely die (Gen. 3:4), and sadly the majority of the Christian world has continued this lie by stating that the wages of sin is an eternal life of torture, instead of death. God is just. He is not willing that any should perish, but all come to repentance (2 Pet. 3:9). But He also allows us to make our own choice of life or death (John 3:17-19). Sin is suffering and must be destroyed. God has made a way of escape, but must in the end destroy those who refuse to let go of sin. Murderers, rapists, liars, and the like cannot continue forever for God is just. Thus hellfire will cleanse the world of sin. But God is no tyrant, and it will not last forever. Once sin and those who cling to it are destroyed, suffering will cease. This is the true teaching on hellfire according to the Bible. “And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away” (Revelation‬ ‭21:4). Biblical hellfire is justice, not endless torture.

[@joetaylor1976]

@@mcdoublenfries7412 Would you enjoy watching people burn in hell?

[@joetaylor1976]

@@MrGoodrat I hope you are right.

[@DM-dk7js]

@@MrGoodrat no. It’s endless torture. For those who, for example, simply disagree with you. That’s bad, that you accept that people who disagree with you should be tortured for all of eternity.

[@ministryoftruth1451]

Sad how angry he is.