Are External Frame Packs Good? Kelty Tioga 5500

#survival #bushcraft #camping #edc
EXTERNAL FRAME PACK LINKS
Amazon** amzn.to/479JKTx
Kelty** alnk.to/faxgXac
Backcountry** alnk.to/hDoP1pK
Moosejaw** alnk.to/4Xu7Rm9
_________________
Amazon** www.amazon.com...
Bladehq** shrsl.com/1hs3c
Gpknives** shrsl.com/1mf0b
Smoky Mountain Knife Works**
www.pjtra.com/...
__________________
Gideonstactical Gear Link Hub: solo.to/gideon...
__________________
LA POLICE GEAR LINK
la-police-gear...
10% Off Your Purchase With Code GTTAC10
_______________
BACKCOUNTRY.COM LINK
alnk.to/gVGQLbW
________________
MOOSEJAW LINK
alnk.to/4Xu7Rm9
___________________
5.11 TACTICAL LINK
511.pxf.io/e4MKDO
________________
MONTANA KNIFE COMPANY LINK
alnk.to/4BEBTMj
________________
GRAYL Water Purifier LINK
alnk.to/dpqvGkY
_______________
SPORTSMANS WAREHOUSE LINK
alnk.to/8iPIHhA
________________
MYSTERY RANCH STORE LINK
alnk.to/60VRWIw
________________
KELTY GEAR STORE LINK
alnk.to/faxgXac
________________
HLTH CODE Meal Replacement Shakes: bit.ly/2PVUUbR
Get 15% Off With Promo Code: EATWITHGT
Paypal Link: www.paypal.com...
Paypal Username: [e-mail]
Links Provided May Include Commissions For Me As A Content Creator. It Is Free For You And Helps Me Create More Content.
DO NOT ATTEMPT ANYTHING SEEN IN THIS VIDEO AT HOME. YOU TAKE ALL RESPONSIBILITY AND RISKS WHEN USING, HANDLING, OR ARE OTHERWISE ENGAGED WITH ANY OF THE ITEMS, SCENARIOS, OR TOPICS MENTIONED IN THIS VIDEO.
/ gideonstactical
/ gideonstactical300
/ gideonstactical

[@Marcel41021]

I thru-hiked the Appalachian Trail in 1983 with the older version of the Tioga. It was tough and able to withstand the rigours of long distance hiking and provided a high level of organization. Whenever my back or hips would fatigue I would readjust the hip strap and shoulder straps on the fly to change the weight distribution. This worked well on those twenty plus mile days. My sleeping bag, food and tent were kept as close to my hips and lower back as possible leaving the top of the pack for lightweight items. I also kept two large garbage bags one to waterproof my main compartment and one for my sleeping bag during those days of heavy rain.l

[@macmurfy2jka]

In my experience, external frame packs work best when the majority of the load is sitting on the hip belt. The shoulder straps are then really just for stability. I would say load be about 65-80% hips with the load shifting ever father to the hips as load weight increases. That is why the back panel isn’t that comfortable. The designers aren’t expecting you to really be pressed against it in any meaningful way.

[@jpjpjp453]

@R K My current pack is a Granite Gear Nimbus Trace 60 and yes virtually all the weight is borne by the hip belt. It's a nice pack and all but i got to thinking about all the stuff i had strapped to it on my last AT attempt. After hearing mention of the 5500 from someone at my job who used it hiking on the AT years ago, i looked it up and after taking a close look at it figured that everything on the outside of the Granite Gear could easily fit inside the Tioga and they weigh pretty much the same even though the Kelty is a larger pack. Thankfully found one of the companies doing the closeout and ordered one.

[@jpjpjp453]

@R K Looking at the Tioga, the only thing that would go outside is the sleeping pad. Last time out from Amicalola to Springer Mt my pack was just under 40 lbs fully loaded. The Kelty is made for serious loads and i'm not even going to be near it's limits as i'm currently looking at 30 lbs. Combined with a RIBZ front pack for pocket type items i really think it's a very nice setup for an AT thru hike. Can't wait to test it out.

[@RH-nc8uu]

@R K If mean at 4:02 that't not at all what he said I'm not listening to the whole thing " Also, he said the mesh back panel was digging into his shoulder blades. All of that makes me think he was carrying the pack way too high"

[@friarrodneyburnap4336]

Where can you get the long stiff piano wire that used to come with the pack? You can do away with the split rings using that...I had a Kelty Serac Backpack...all of Kelty Backpacks came with them when Dick Kelty was the designer and owner of the company... No split rings in the beginning...

[@Thunder-Chief]

gideonstactical Aaron, I believe you had the pack adjusted incorrectly. You can see @7:27 (when you started to mention the shoulder strap issue) that the shoulder stabilizer straps are cinched all the way up, which is not properly adjusted for someone of our size (I am also 6'2"). I believe you were hiking with it this way as well, which I can see briefly @0:27. However, this caused the pack to ride too low, not too high as R K recently stated, as the apex of the shoulder straps were pulled too close to the frame. There should be a sizeable gap between the apex of the shoulder pads and the frame. Additionally, the mesh panel should most certainly touch the wearer's shoulder blades (unlike what R K mentioned), but they should land in the middle of the mesh panel, not near the top. The incorrect adjustment is further evidenced by the belt having an upward slant to it @0:37, and the buckle not being positioned over your navel. If it had been adjusted correctly, in order for the belt to be at your waist, the belt would have to be slanted downward from the pack forward. I would love to hear you re-review this pack after field testing it again with it properly adjusted. I think it would make all the difference in the world. That being said, this was a fantastic review of the pack itself, much more comprehensive than any of the other reviews I have seen here on KZbin. I was looking for a review of the Trekker 65 (which I just got a hold of), but this works as the two are very similar, aside from the extra space and the much larger single pocket on the left side. One last thing, not to be nitpicky, but if one were to pack an entire tent, poles and all, it should be placed on top of the pack, not on bottom, as the pack is designed to carry the heaviest items up high (hence the internal brace that creates the shelf when the main flap is closed).

[@misery13666]

You're not being nitpicky. I have been watching reviews in anticipation of buying one and noticed he had it on wrong too. he had it pulled super tight up top. now for climbing/scrambling this pulls the weight in to prevent shifting, but for hiking it keeps everything too tight. The way he had it he was bearing far too much of the weight on his shoulders not his hips. But then nobody makes a proper fitment and use video....not even kelty.

[@friarrodneyburnap4336]

I believe the mesh panel touching your shoulder blades or not, depends on your torso length ...I have been carrying my Tioga for a couple of weeks and because of my Torso length adjustment...the mesh panel is higher on my body...

[@Lawson80]

Thunder Chief, I couldn't agree more mate: for a start those loadlifters are suppose to be at a 45 degree angle to the pack straps. I am yet to see a product review of external frame backpacks with the pack adjusted correctly. Heck, If you're unsure how to do it, even go to a quality camping gear store, and for a small tip I'm sure the staff will help you properly adjust your pack. I've owned LOTS of packs, and a poor fitting pack spoils your camping trip right from the start. The only pack I use now is the Hunter Pack from "Frontier Gear of Alaska", and I will never go back to internal frame EVER. Frontier Gear frames and suspension system are rated up to 120+ pounds; not that I ever go anywhere near that, but because their suspension system is rated for that, it shoulders the weight insanely well. As for internal frames: IMHO they are pushed by companies (and sponsored reviewers) because they are simpler to mass-produce, and give them a greater profit margin: it's just all marketing hype (Honestly, tell me how much "Rock Scrambling do you do, compared to countless hours hiking on trails?) . I've wasted so much money on internal frames, and none shoulder weight well at all, and because of this shortcoming there's now this big push for expensive ultralight gear. I don't have to count ever ounce, or fork out for the latest in ultralight gear; I can opt for more rugged/heavier gear and hike in comfort using my External Frame Pack, and if I do go light it feels like I'm carrying nothing at all.

[@Lawson80]

I just waited to add that I still very much appreciate gideonstactical for reviewing this pack, as most hiking gear reviewers will not even look at an external frame pack. I'd love to see you take this pack into camping store with professional staff who can adjust the pack perfectly for you (while it's on your back and weighted down), and then take it out for another spin mate. I can almost guarantee, after that, this will become your #1 pack. It would make for a interesting vid too.

[@shcmoly]

I have friends who bought this pack in the 1970's and still use them. I have carried 60+ lbs on a multi day trip with this pack. Very different than an internal pack.

[@Funkteon]

Supporters of internal frame packs are just people who have never had to take a shitload of food and water on a long hike, i.e. the AT and PCT types who have a food store and water source every 40-50 miles or so... I'm from Australia, and I generally need to take up to a week worth of water with me, so that's a minimum of 14kg (30lbs) of weight just in water, as well as 4kg (9lbs) of freeze dried food, that's right, I carry almost 40lbs just in food and water because Australia isn't like North America with all its rivers and lakes and streams and creeks and edible flora everywhere, it's a dry, dead hellscape crawling with spiders, snakes, venomous biting insects and even 6 foot tall Velociraptor-like birds (the Cassowary) that can disembowel you... As such, an external frame pack is the only kind of pack that can haul the amount of stuff you need to bushwhack through the Australian outback over a long period...

[@oldgeccko8207]

What I did about those horrible pin rings on my old external pack was replace the rings with some heavy duty cotter pins and that works great! Just remember to carry extras. I wish I'd had those nightize gear ties because I was using zip ties and they're great but hard to get right sometimes and you have to carry extras because they're a one time use thing, but you should try using cotter pins to see if you like the ease of use.

[@friarrodneyburnap4336]

I own a Kelty Trekker 3950 and love it...this model of backpacks was the first commercial backpack Kelty made...Kelty was the first to sell modern commercially made backpacks...The Kelty Trekker 3950 can still be bought with modern upgrades and material . . .I just reordered a brand new Kelty Tioga 5500 Backpack.... Dick Kelty started out welding his backpack frames in his garage, And his wife would make the pack bags inside on there home sewing machine...

[@Jason-hv4eu]

Good review! Similar to my Army Rucksack. I walked 100’s of miles with it. I’m a fan of external frame backpacks.

[@BBQDad463]

I have tried many packs over the past 55 to 60 years. The Kelty Tioga is my favorite if I am doing more than two to four days. It will take quite a beating. I have a 65 liter internal frame pack that is great for up to four days. I like to have a bit of extra room in my pack so the stitching is not stressed. I feel that a packed that is stretched too tight will fail prematurely and will almost certainly leak in rain.

[@rcmurray571]

I bought one of these packs and am so glad I did! I am an old school old fart who was brought up on external frame packs in the late 70’s early 80’s. I later adapted to internal frame packs but was never quite a convert! This pack is awesome. I can stuff a ton of stuff in it and it carries well. Love it!

[@CaptainJimJames]

You had issues because the metal portion of the pack is not intended to touch your back. External frames only went out of favor because pack makers can make more money with internal frame packs that are slightly different every year. The external frame is by far superior. The pack should sit on the padding over your shoulders and the padding around your waist. That is it. How to properly wear and adjust them seems to be becoming lost. You should have zero pinching. As for technical climbing and balance, it is learned. Spend more than 3-5 days on a trail, and you will be running circles around anyone with a lesser pack.

[@highplainsdrifter9631]

Preach brother 🙌

[@cj_m2477]

I use to carry a similar Kelty, although not as large in the early 70’s. Keeping my tent lashed to the bottom I learned it was best to keep it in a trash bag because every time you put the pack down on a rainy day the bag the tent was in would get wet and muddy; eventually passing through to the tent. I still have that pack too.

[@friarrodneyburnap4336]

They can also carry UL loads better then a UL no frame knapsack style backpack....10 lbs or less...

[@jjaylad]

Nice to see this. Watching this and listening to your comments I see everyone walking with heavy loads and no way to take a break while still walking. If you can ever find a JanSport 68 liter D3 or the smaller 51 liter D5, with hip wings, you will find it to be a soulmate, We've trekked all 4 seasons in forest and mountains ...even trekking for days above snowlines, as well as used them for extended canoe trips with lots of portaging. This has been over the span of 52 years since purchasing them in 1972. I take care of my gear and they are as good as the day we bought them. Lifetime guarantee but the only thing I've used that for was to replace a JanSport patch that snagged on sharp rock. The hip wings are a HUGE advantage with extreme weight because you can grab them and hang the weight on your arms to relieve your shoulders and hips once in a while as you hike. The top shelf used to support my aluminum camera case with camera, lenses and accessories and with strapped on tripod. A 5 day load out back then was over 70 lbs. If you ever have an opportunity to try one with 60+ pounds aboard you will be amazed. We've tried internal frame a few times to see how they've progressed, but after our JanSport D's, those internal frame packs were about as welcome on our backs as a company of biting ants. They'll outlive us and probably our offspring too. :)

[@Funkteon]

Supporters of internal frame packs are just people who have never had to take a shitload of food and water on a long hike, i.e. the AP and PCT types who have a food store and water source every 40-50 miles or so... I'm from Australia, and I generally need to take up to a week worth of water with me, so that's a minimum of 14kg (30lbs) of weight just in water, as well as 4kg (9lbs) of freeze-dried food, that's right, I carry almost 40lbs just in food and water because Australia isn't like North America with all its rivers and lakes and streams and creeks and edible flora everywhere, it's a dry, dead hellscape crawling with spiders, snakes, venomous biting insects and even 6-foot tall Velociraptor-like birds (the Cassowary) that can disembowel you... As such, an external frame pack is the only kind of pack that can haul the amount of stuff you need to bushwhack through the Australian outback over a long period...

[@derrickwalker538]

I heard that! I wish some folks would try and pack all the gear we had to pack in Afghanistan! At it 80+ lbs and long hauls with water mre not including your weapon and ammo and our Kevlar with body armor

[@STOKERMATIC]

I’ve used both over the years and appreciate both. Great job putting it together as well. I’m still fleshing out my channel and approach but I definitely appreciate how you put your content together, keep up the great work!

[@pspicer777]

Best packs ever. I have tried everything even custom (McHale etc) over the last 50 years or so. Seriously rugged and durable.

[@jeffreylarson3508]

Aaron Great video!!! I been using external frame packs for a long time...my first Kelty was a super tioga from 1983 or 1984. I also use internals when I am mountaineering / climbing. I would like to give you a little feedback 😎, @ 2:08 it appears to me that the load lifter straps are wrapping down below your shoulders, they should actually angle back up at approximately 45 degrees from the top of your shoulders / upper traps. Seems to me that your pack needs to be readjusted in the torso...if that is the case it will take a huge part of the load off your shoulders and load your hips appropriately. I also look for the hip belt buckle to right around the level of the belly button, this should have your hip belt positioned on the Iliac crest of the hips. I will adjust my pack frame length after I establish proper ride position on the hips, the cross bar on the frame for the load lifter straps should be above your shoulders to achieve that 45 degree angle I mentioned earlier. I know you are very experienced, I thought that would help since you are just starting to use your external frame tioga. Cheers

[@salsalvio821]

Jeffrey Larson yeah, he doesn’t know what he’s doing

[@jeffreylarson3508]

@@salsalvio821 I just did some training with my tioga with 55 lbs and it was comfortable, no shoulder back or neck pain. I am glad I went back to an external frame packs. I also have the trekker 65 love those packs!! Cheers

[@gobinday]

2:08 yes, the shoulder strap position is too low at the top connection, i.e. the hip belt should ride higher, or be attached to a lower hole on the frame below, thus hoisting the frame a bit higher.

[@jerrydavis5934]

the molle 2 shoulder straps make this a friendlier pack to carry.

[@opalprestonshirley1700]

Thank you for the honest review. Getting her dialed in can be a pain I hated those rings but once you get that done she a pleasure.

[@silaspitch9485]

I've only ever used external frame packs for extended hikes, say a week or more. I do have two internal frame Kelty packs, but I rarely use them. My two go-to packs are an old, size large Tioga and a smaller Kelty, both with external frames; both from the early 1980s; both with the old-style solid stainless steel aviator quick release hip belt buckle. Both are of the old design that places nearly all the weight on the hips, unlike current models that have the shoulder straps in more or less the same configuration as internal frame packs. Both are still in top shape. Both are lighter in weight than any of the external frame packs in current production. Both are from the days when pack models often came in different sizes to fit different hikers and load requirements. I've gotten to the point where I can't imagine using a pack that doesn't keep the sleeping bag or main pack bag off the wet ground if placed against a tree. I've long since gotten used to the greater organization offered by most external frame packs and the ability to lash full-width gear across the top or bottom in a more secure manner. I generally detest the feeling of an internal fame pack in warm or hot weather. The only time I think about using one of my internal frame packs is in the unlikely event that I am going to be out snow-shoeing or cross-country skiing. If I had to choose just two packs to have for the rest of my days, it would be my two Kelty externals. I'll not part with either of them.

[@colnagocowboy]

Been a kelty fan since the early 70's shopped at thier store in Glendale Ca.

[@amiassullivan7854]

He was saying you can put heavier load on the bottom but heavy stuff should go on the top

[@Libertarian_Neighbor]

External framed packs are good for hauling out deer and wild pig.

[@Dankyjrthethird]

Kaya BRUHH

[@MrLlama999]

Pro Tip: you can fit a 2 liter soda bottle in the side “bottle” sleeves. Great for water.

[@christophvonwaldhuf]

The Loadlifters should be attached above between pin and crossbar, not underneath on the keychain ring.

[@friarrodneyburnap4336]

You don't need to carry this external frame backpack with only a heavy load you can still carry a UL to a light load...and this Backpack will be just find better then fine...also you might not have taken into consideration a external frame backpack...is packed different then a internal frame backpack..if you didn't pack it right...and just packed it like you would have your internals this would also make the Tioga backpack not carry comfortably...I have owned about 8 different external frame backpack...and love them...

[@alantaylor6691]

Are the external frame packs more affordable than the internals?

[@friarrodneyburnap4336]

@@alantaylor6691 Yes and No it all matters what internal pack your looking at...

[@bradmoulton138]

I love it when people don't set their gear up properly then give things a bad review.

[@GrumpyGrunt]

Trying to keep my eye on that spec sheet was brutal, man. I finally remembered I could just pause it. 😜

[@spencerdodds2207]

You didn't think of doing a test and adjust before your trip?

[@ExploringCabinsandMines]

Im considering going back to my old frame pack, when i strap on a tent and sleeping bag to a frame less it is all loosey goosey and doesn't hold its form, also my external frame has more compartments.

[@vannederynen1]

I know this is an older video but i feel like this guy didnt really research how to strap gear to an external bag.( Also only the smallest of extension on top and none on bottom means he is missing out on a whole lot more capacity.)

[@mariateresafernandez5750]

Great video thank you, your video really help me 🙏🙏🙏

[@dennisharris144]

Why not try it with a light load? If it works with heavy load why would it not work with light?

[@filmic1]

Really nice review. Lovin that Kelty. I used to have a Camp Trails when I was a young fellow. It was a real hauler. It had a spreader bar that had a small sleeve to hold it in place. Did some nice backpacking trips with it in the Canadian Rockies.

[@Oldcoinsandstuff1]

I don’t understand why they quit making external frame packs. I really think they are better.

[@highplainsdrifter9631]

They're better in many ways. A few brands still make them, and I just scored a Kelty 5500 Tioga Classic, brand new.

[@surlycyclingrag3347]

They are the original packs I am sure they will become a icon of some one that knows what they are doing again. For a backpacker that likes to modify or use a piece of gear more ways than a tarp and rope then a imagination can grow. Don't worry the kelty brand will never go extinct.

[@ripHalo0002]

Great review

[@slick8086]

I put a small flashlight on that internal "key keeper."

[@Superduper666]

The pack is great for winter hikes

[@friarrodneyburnap4336]

I do really like this video... I have some different opinions but that's mine... But it doesn't take away from this video...any video about external frame backpacks is a step in the right direction....along as the video isn't anti External frame Backpacks...

[@JohnMiller-oz7gv]

I've lost a lot of weight, (cancer club), Thanks for the info.

[@Eric-ew8jt]

A 2 for 1 day This is awesome! I just called work told them I'd be 30 min late today, have to get my GT fix

[@neemancallender9092]

I started with a Karrimor in the late 60s Graduated to a Kelty in the 70s The best for unsupported 10 wilderness trips on trails Where a high center of gravity is stable The load weight was before ultra light had been invented and it managed it well Not good for x-country skiing or snowshoeing where you need a closer fitting pack for active balance where i used the ‘new’ Berghaus Cyclops one of the first internal framed packs Highly recommend external frames for the type of hiking you do

[@fensterputzernuernberg]

Some beautiful scenery there ..

[@toddevans4667]

Was gonna pull the trigger on this but saw the tidewe 5500 for a few dollars less & looks more comfortable with the backpadding.

[@danawankinthewoods.5642]

I'd love one of these.

[@QuachMD]

Have you ever tried the Eberlestock Mainframe? It's kind of a modern external/internal frame hybrid. I'm just wondering how this Kelty compares to the Eberlestock with extreme heavy loads.

[@vpjohnston]

I have the Eberlestock mainframe. It's absolutely the most comfortable pack I've ever used. I picked it for the versatility in setup. This Kelty looks pretty awesome for $200 !!

[@floridianpatriot9229]

I own one and I also bought a separate rain cover for it; not sure if they still sell in.

[@XA1985]

I’m thinking of going external frame pack but no idea which one to buy

[@keithshwalbe6981]

Thank you for a very fine talk thru.

[@uthewallstreetbetsgod4714]

He has no idea what he is doing. From wearing it to packing it. Best pack ever unless technical climbing. I burn past anyone with an internal pack. Especially by the end of a week. Can gain an entire day of miles. From how the weight is carried to the cooling between the pack to back, best pack ever.

[@friarrodneyburnap4336]

But you don't have to carry any where near that much weight... And you have to have your external frame backpack dialed in to or adjusted to your torso size...your shoulder straps...have to be adjusted wide or tighter depending on you, at the top...I would recommend using a very tight rain cover over your external frame backpack...this will keep tree limbs an bushes from getting tangled up into the straps...the back mash that holds the backpack away from your back, can be loosened up...you don't have to keep it tight all the time..you can't compare an external frame backpack to other backpacks... it's an external frame backpack... there is a different learning curve with this style of Backpack... P.S. 60+ lbs is over kill for most backpacking trips...

[@Besalu]

How much does the pack weight? I missed that.

[@redoak3809]

I'm thinking you really don't know how to setup your external pack. I love my external Kelty Super Tioga which I have had since around 1992. The only problem I ever had with it was when the hip belt failed while hiking at Mount Rogers in VA. Before they stopped making the Super Tioga it had a better hip belt, load lifters, etc. which the Tioga didn't seem to have.

[@kaitlynchermak6488]

Hey Aaron, appreciate your videos on this pack as I research external frame packs! Been a sub to your channel for years now, always good stuff! Curious what you thought of it long term and if you may be looking to sell it now that you’re RV’ing. Thanks as always!

[@kaitlynchermak6488]

Also, if you don’t have the pack loaded to capacity, how much of the frame could you possibly expose at the bottom to lash to? Thanks

[@badbeetle2942]

Need to carry the weight higher

[@coolbeans6148]

You should have went with savatta 80L. Best exteral on the market imo

[@bobbieschke599]

.....old saying ;"you carry an external frame pack, you wear an internal frame pack!"You can get usable, in good condition frames packs, at reasonable prices on ebay ! Mystery Ranch and others are too expensive ! Grizz 🐻

[@monocogenit1]

If your looking at 90-100 liter packs..... Don't go hiking... Take your car. LMAO

[@ivankrylov6270]

Winter backpacking requires far more capacity. Once you get all of the sleeping and camp kit in there smaller packs cant handle it at all

[@charlesreynolds7608]

have you tried back country edge for tioga 5000

[@roosteraj3289]

How tall are you? I am trying to get an idea of how big the external backpack is. Thank you.

[@happy-kz8lb]

6,2

[@mikedrabick8545]

Have you tried the osprey aether ag 70?

[@gideonstactical]

Mike Drabick not yet

[@charlesreynolds7608]

back country edge carries the tioga 5000

[@jrquarnberg4317]

I bet a quality backpack would blow your mind... kifaru or stone glacier. Blew mine compared to these type of options your mentioning.

[@friarrodneyburnap4336]

The Kifaru make hunting and military style backpacks... These backpacks can be very heavy...I owned there 4 person with there small wood burning stove, after backpacker magazine give it there editor's choice award...the Tipi is great but the wood burning stove for backpacking was over kill...the set weighed 8+ lbs... Kelty External Frame Backpacks are the best on the market...if you use it for what they where design for... Backpacking... don't carry any more weight then what is absolutely necessary...

[@Roman-lu1xn]

Maybe you can cross the bottom straps for more of a pronounced "V". I'm not sure about that though.

[@jt8180]

If your carrying any amount of load or weight on your shouders you don't have the pack adjusted correctly!!!!!!!!!!! A frame pack should be adjusted so as to carry ALL of the load weight on your legs, thru your hips and hip belt. This is the advantage of a framed pack!!!! If yours and you cannot do this ,you don't know what your doing!!!!!!!!!!! JT. from Oregon,,, LONG time frame pack user. I also noticed you don't have your shoulder adjusters correctly installed on your pack, they are set up wrong!!!

[@05generic]

Apparently companies like Kelty don't put much R&D into ext. frame packs and treat them as a fringe market. If there are companies that specialize in ext frame packs they are probably the better option.

[@charlesreynolds7608]

try enwild to buy one

[@bradmoulton138]

Tedious??? Want some cheese with that wine?

[@toddevans4667]

You can still buy one in 2021 for $180

[@friarrodneyburnap4336]

"Retro or Retrogrouch Backpacking" ...I read this in a add on the internet...talking about Backpackers that primarily used vintage backpacking gear...now is this a real thing...is there a new fad called Retrogrouch Backpacking? I know Vintage backpacking gear is becoming more in Vogue. . .then it was... Some call this ("Retro" (Grouch) Backpacking)...for short. Retrogrouch -noun 1. One who is skeptical of technological developments until their usefulness and reliability have been proven. 2. One who insists on minimalist equipment that may be user-serviced, and has proven its usefulness in the past. . . 3. He is such a retro Grouch he still uses a camera that takes film. . .

[@teresakinney9601]

Does anyone else here baby in the background