Should You Have An External Frame Pack?

[@clintstinkeye5607]

I’ll always love external frame packs. I wish more effort would be made by more companies to make a great modern external frame pack.

[@nathanferrey4486]

Amen

[@SophisticatedDogCat]

They’re obsolete, that’s why nobody invests in them.

[@TheDoddsworth]

Love my Seek Outside.

[@caseywalters500]

Kifaru!

[@liamsorensen5897]

Exo Mtn Gear

[@Steve-hb4my]

I love external frames; always have. I think it’s the nostalgia. I also don’t consider moving from an external to an internal frame an “upgrade.” It’s just a choice.

[@BexarOutfitters]

Agreed. There's just something inherently "cool" about an external frame pack heading up the trail. And that may have been a poor choice of words on my part. I consider them to be tools for separate jobs, not necessarily a natural progression of gear upgrades.

[@JRRob3wn]

I haven’t gone backpacking in 30 years and am just getting back into it. Bought an internal frame pack and I find having to jam every single piece of equipment inside the pack to be very annoying and time consuming. With an external, all the bulky stuff was just quickly strapped to the bottom of the pack significantly cutting down on the time needed to break down camp. It’s also far easier to organize your gear and find what you need quickly.

[@Steve-hb4my]

External frame packs will never be out of vogue; they will always have their place.

[@davyhaynes6716]

You forgot the biggest advantage of external frame packs-they are so darn comfortable! I started, and backpacked for years with internal frame packs, and have used many. However, a few years back I decided to try a KeltyTrekker just for the heck of it, plus it was a screaming deal. While there is a short adjustment to the external frame, you walk more upright, and learn to anticipate the weight swing as you straddle step high blow downs, wow is this thing comfortable! Now all my internal frame backs remain in the closet. Yes, it weighs more than a quality internal (at half the price or less mind you), but it carries the weight so comfortably I now always prefer it. Plus, the organizational features really make packing/unpacking and accessing the needed gear much more efficient and quick.

[@BexarOutfitters]

That's a big thing as well! Comfort is king when it comes to gear. I'd nearly always sacrifice a little weight when it comes to comfort.

[@nathanferrey4486]

Organization is huge and in my experience externals allow much more access and customization

[@XA1985]

Would it feel comfortable after many days of hiking?

[@davyhaynes6716]

@@XA1985 I have done a 300+ mile thru hike with mine and yes, it remained comfy the whole trip. Now, that being said, for thru hiking a long trail like the AT, PCT, or CDT, I think I would opt for a much smaller, lighter option as miles per day rule on such a hike. But for weekending, I prefer the E-frame.

[@friarrodneyburnap4336]

You don't need to cut anything from your pack frame, what you need is a rain cover with a drawstring to put around your pack...This will keep the frame and the pack bag from getting hung up on any of your branches... In my opinion you can not compare an external frame backpack with a internal frame Backpack...they are two different carrying methods. . .but you can compare two different brands of external frame backpacks or a different brand of internal frame Backpacks. . .before Mr. Kelty made the first External frame Backpacks in his garage back in the 1950s . . .very little Backpacking was being done, then Colin Fletcher came along, and he was the first real thru hiker...before it was called thru hiking. . .then somebody back in the 1970s thought it was a great I idea to put the frame inside a External Frame Pack bag. Now people are spending 3 and 4 times what a External frame Backpack cost, these Cuban fiber rucksacks, are warrantied for one year or one thru hike....my Kelty's Tioga and Trekker external Backpacks are warrantied for life . . .I carry my external frame backpack with the lightest gear... external frame backpacks are underrated by many folks that won't even try one... Modern backpacking gear is Ultralight, but much of it is designed not to last so you have to keep replacing it...

[@TexasFamilyCamping]

I like the idea of the external frame, and your points of more latch points and less contact with my back are both winning me over.

[@BexarOutfitters]

There's some definite pros to the external frame that often get overlooked. If you need any help selecting a pack, shoot me an email at [e-mail] and I'd be happy to help!

[@jimsmith264]

I have a 37-year-old Jansport external frame pack that is still going strong. Sure, it's a little heavier than new packs, but then again so am I.

[@calevel]

I scored an old but new condition Kelty Continental Divide 5300 external frame and when you compare it with the new generation packs you see how the industry has been cutting corners. Those old Kelty had more work onto it and were built to last. I reckon they are heavier than the newer bags but is due to thicker stronger material that will stand punishment way better. For me, I stick with external frame. I’m not a light backpacker, always never under 35~40 lbs and external seems to work better for me.

[@jimosage6499]

One thing I like about an external frame pack is being able to use it as a cabinet in camp. I set the pack right next to me and I have a place for all the stuff I use. I don't have to spread my stuff all over or put it in a pile. Makes things convenient and less easy to lose stuff. I can set it up in my tent or tarp so it supports the fabric and helps with headroom and flapping of the fabric when it's windy. When sleeping under the stars all those external pockets really come in handy. I'm old and slow anyway , so comfort in camp is more important now, rather than comfort on the trail. Just getting out there is the big treat now, rather than trying for big speed and fast traverses.

[@WilliamShinal]

I'm leaning more towards an external frame mainly because I'm inspired by Death Stranding's crate pack. Besides, what if I need to load said crates on my back one day? It won't be my first backpack, but it'll be my first for the outdoors.

[@blessedarmadillo8257]

Well said, good job. A chief deciding factor is how you are going to use it. If I'm doing a thru hike of the AT I'm probably going to not use an external pack (lookup "Devil's Racecourse" and "Mahoosuc Notch" and you'll understand why). But if I'm hiking the C and O canal towpath with a fair amount of weight, I'd love my Kelty D4.

[@waylonmartin5662]

They're both functional, but I prefer the external frame.

[@friarrodneyburnap4336]

A external frame backpack carries different then a internal frame backpack...they are two different ways to carry your gear...An internal frame pack will have you bent over all day as you hike... An external frame backpack will cause you to carry your load in a more upright position...so your not bent-over all day as you carry your load....Also an external frame backpack will give you more air flow so your back will stay drier then it will if you are carrying an internal frame pack...With an External frame backpack you can carry a ultralight gear load or a 4 season gear load. . .Kelty invented and designed the padded shoulder straps, the load lifting straps, and the sternum strap....and the padded waist belt...these up grades where copied by other pack makers, making there backpack designs knockoffs of the Kelty external frame backpacks...Dick Kelty invented the modern backpacks used today...Kelty was the first backpack inventor and designer to add the waist belt...evey other companies making packs that have a waist belts are knockoffs of the Kelty packs...

[@BexarOutfitters]

Always good to hear from you padre, I don't think there's a more fervent evangelist for external frame backpacking than you. Thanks for stopping by and taking the time to watch and comment. Hope to see you out there on the trails sometime, we'll grab a selfie with our external frames! Happy trails!

[@thesuperd1971]

External frame is right for me because I found it for $8! 😅

[@friarrodneyburnap4336]

"Retro or Retrogrouch Backpacking" ...I read this in a add on the internet...talking about Backpackers that primarily used vintage backpacking gear...now is this a real thing...is there a new fad called Retrogrouch Backpacking? I know Vintage backpacking gear is becoming more in Vogue. . .then it was... Some call this ("Retro" (Grouch) Backpacking)...for short. Retrogrouch -noun 1. One who is skeptical of technological developments until their usefulness and reliability have been proven. 2. One who insists on minimalist equipment that may be user-serviced, and has proven its usefulness in the past. . . 3. He is such a retro Grouch he still uses a camera that takes film. . .

[@stanleyheath5486]

When I first started backpacking 50 years ago Jansport made some state of the art external frame packs so that's what we bought. I loved the organization options with the external pockets and separate compartment for the sleeping bag on the bottom. but you are absolutely correct that on more rugged terrain they feel top heavy so about 10 years ago i traded them off for internal framed packs. more stable, yes, but hotter against the back and i hated having to unload almost everything to find what i needed in a top loading bag. separate stuff sacks help with identifying cook set from clothes, but i'm thinking seriously about switching back now that we tend to stick to the beaten paths in our senior season of hiking.

[@BexarOutfitters]

Yep, the external frame certainly has a time and a place, and when it's in the zone, it performs exceptionally

[@DarkMetaOFFICIAL]

External frames are basically better in every way possible, and add insane amounts of flexibility. Other than having a simple daypack, but that won't be too big of a load. even then, you want a strong internal frame but it limits you to an extreme degree, simplifying things. which is what you might want sometimes. the best thing about frames though, the modularity/ function capability expansion possibilities being endless, and swapping components for upgrade, different tasks, or repair. and having specalized harnesses and suspensions for extra heavy long term gear hauls. i love being able to stand my pack up, on it's metal frame, and even sit on it, no problem. awesome stuff.

[@huntarama9375]

Yea Ive never understood the design of US made frame packs , Id prefer less frame and more bag. Im a fan of external frame packs but most of mine are lighter than a internal frame pack of the same era. I had a good opportunity to test out packs a couple of weeks ago. I managed to knock over quite a large stag and as I was only about seven kms from the car I decided to pack all the meat out, I had a frame pack with me so I loaded up 70 kilos of meat plus my camping gear and as I was on a trapping explore I had some trapping gear as well so all up some where north of 80 kilos. Im 62 years old and after a struggle to just get to my feet and about 2 kms of walking it was clear I was getting my expectations mixed up with my capabilities. So before I started the up hill part of my trip I hung the front shoulders in a tree and GPS the location to return the next day. I found the 50 kilos remaining still a struggle but quite manageable . The next day I returned for the rest of the meat and gear I had left behind. I took an internal frame pack I had because it was more modern and had more padding on the straps . although I probably had about half the weight of the day before I just couldnt get the load balance right and the stitching Zips and Harness were right at the limit.

[@BexarOutfitters]

There's definitely pros and cons to both. Like I mentioned in the video, if I know I'm going to be hauling a lot of weight, it's hard to beat that external frame. If I need to be compact, with weight close to my body because of uneven terrain, etc. Then I like the internal frame. Just two tools in the tool box, each with a purpose. Thanks for taking the time to watch and comment!

[@Anomalous-Plant]

Only using an external frame backpack so far. I have little experience with internal frame but so far it is all negative in comparison to the external frame. I am not sure what does it achieve better than external frame, but the appeal is certainly there if you are an ultralight camper. I find it incredibly comfortable even with heavier weights and over 20km hikes through very rough terrain have felt like nothing even with a 20kg backpack, nothing has come close to that comfort they have offered me, yet. Been thinking about stripping mine down to the frame only and sewing a new simpler, lighter pack, which is basically just a roll for all of my things. Maybe I will try the internals again, if I ever feel the need to! My internal frame backpack experiences are based on some old, cheap military iterations which definitely are not the best in market... but I honestly can't see them replacing the external frame backpack for me.

[@canyonmannnn]

I like them both and own each of them. I will tell you, if possible I carry an external frame. 1. comfort 2. I can pack heavier 3. It's so much easier to get into and find things. I can lean the back up against a tree and if there are 2 compartments its quick and easy to get into and find things. Have you ever needed anything in the bottom of a deep internal frame backpack? I'm from colorado and I'm in the mountains and rarely have I ever do technical climbing that requires an internal frame backpack. I know there cool.

[@BexarOutfitters]

I have! Luckily I've got some good packs with a bottom zipper which helps alleviate that issue. Fantastic points all! Thanks for watching!

[@J0MBi]

External frame packs are excellent. They take a bit more skill to set them up and tweak them for your own personal usage, but this is totally worth it. These bags are rugged like you wouldn't believe and every part can be easily and cheaply replaced by just about anyone. The Ketly design has been the standard external frame pack for over half a century and that means there is a wealth of interchangable component out there. Different designs are lighter and more comfortable than others. If you are at all curious then give one a try, you might just be won over.

[@BexarOutfitters]

Exactly! I think that external frame packs definitely still have a time and a place in the backpacking community, particularly for people who are looking for durable gear that will take a beating. Thanks for chiming in!

[@elyasstephens8242]

I got mine for $16 at goodwill along with a $25 REI down sleeping bag. Cant beat that!

[@BexarOutfitters]

Can't beat that with a stick! Every now and then you can find some good stuff on the secondary market

[@nathanferrey4486]

I've always been fond of external frame packs and I wish they were more readily available nowadays. It seems that as gear got smaller (pads, bags, pots, etc.) backpacks have also gotten smaller. As you commented on in your video external frames allow a lot more lashing onto the pack. This a0llows a nominally 40L pack to double as a 70+ when needed. Also, from what I have experienced internal frame packs make getting to essential gear obnoxiously difficult unless one takes gear out to find what is needed. In my experience, external frames allow greater access to pack content and the ability to carry it securely outside of the main compartment. That being said if I were Bush whacking or scrambling up rocks I can definitely see the advantage of internal frame packs. Just my 2 cents. Great video

[@therealchickentender]

Like most that grew up with externals, I have both today... but the only external one I have is my first which is a very early-80s REI branded one that my first serious GF's father gave to me (there's some nostalgia for ya!). I keep it around for pack-in-to-camp type trips when the trail isn't challenging and I can load that sucker up with plenty of extra "comfort" items. Nothing ventilates and carries heavier loads like an external. Absolutely they still have their place, no question.

[@BexarOutfitters]

Thanks for watching, that's my stance as well. If I'm not scrambling on trails where I want to have the load close to me, or if I'm headed out on flats, I'll reach for the external. Thanks for watching, and happy trails!

[@richardross7219]

I joined BSA in 1962 and used an Offical BSA Yucca Pack until 1966 when I bought the "L" frame. It helped a bit. In 1974 when I was planning to Thru hike the AT, I bought a new Kelty pack and frame. It was very nice. Unfortunately, I never got to do the through hike. My wife had one of the Coleman fiberglass frames that was very adjustable. I liked the extrenal frame set up because it allowed me to have many things on the frame for handy access. That was probably a habit from the Army. Good Luck, Rick

[@ShakespeareCafe]

Get an external frame mule pack for carrying game. It’s got a folding shelf at the bottom you can use to carry game or even a small cooler. You can customize it by using modular bags to attach to the frame as well. Ive got my eye on an Eberlestock out of Boise to use for carrying some of my trail building gear.

[@BexarOutfitters]

Yep, having that "meat shelf" is a game changer for a lot of folks, particularly if you're carrying tools or game out, it can be a handy addition. Thanks for watching, and thanks for your comment!

[@hikewithmike4673]

great video....I am in flat level Florida and I love having the lash points so easy to use with bungee cords I use my external frame pack all the time for backcountry camping. I have used it in mountain foothill terrain and it can feel abit more challenge in that situation..it all depends on your climate and geography..the external frame also is perfect to slide a trash bag over the pack easily if it begins to rain.

[@BexarOutfitters]

Yeah! Some of my favorite hikes I may gain/lose like 30' of elevation over 10 miles, so an external frame works great. I also use it for when I do trail maintenance, since it's easier to tie implements into place.

[@kiltedcrafter6268]

For me the external frame pack is the best way to go. I have tried several internal frame packs only to find out 10, 15, 20 miles into a hike that I made a bad pack choice.

[@jasonbannan4024]

I used the heck out of my 1980's Jansport external frame pack in Arizona, Utah and Colorado. Loved it. and wish I still had it. Comfortable, weight higher up gave better back relief, cool in the heat and stood up on the frame when off the back. Is there a modern equivalent?

[@BexarOutfitters]

Great question! Vargo, kelty and ALPS all still make external frame packs of varying size and varieties. I'd also check out your local hunting outfitter, eberlestock nimrod and others are making some modular options for external frames

[@highplainsdrifter9631]

Check out Bull Pacs. They make great external frame packs for hunting.

[@scbane]

Some additional pros and cons for my fellow hunters. Pros: 1. An external frame makes a great rifle rest, since they are taller than external frame. 2. Hauls heavier loads more comfortably for tall guys. I am 6'2". Cons: 1. Slung rifle bangs against the frame with each step. 2. More noise.

[@MorrisLess]

No matter what kind of pack you use, 100% of its weight will be on your hips, either through the frame or through your spine. It makes sense, I think, to load as much of the weight directly on your hips as you reasonably can. Save your back and shoulders from unnecessary work. For that reason and because of better ventilation, I like external frames.

[@1001RMJ]

Great explanation of the pros and cons for both! Thank you!

[@mrmeme-jq6qr]

I’m buying my 4th frame pack tomorrow and I don’t even camp much

[@805gregg]

A newer model of external is the lightweight Varga Ti, a 50 liter with an external titanium frame

[@jjaylad]

Our JanSport D3 External Frame backpacks with hip wings have served us for 52 years of rugged use in mountains, canoe trips, and Canadian Shield trekking, in all 4 seasons. We tried getting into the 21st century with internal frame packs a few times but after a day or two on the trail each time …they were returned. No contest. Internal frame all the way for us. Not adjustable but my wife's is the identically designed but smaller model. Our D3's, despite an incredible amount of hard use, rubbing trees, rocks, canoe thwarts etc, have held up perfectly. Still lifetime guaranteed by JanSport but the only part ever needed in all those years, was a JanSport name patch that I snagged and lost off mine 3 years back, JanSport sent me a new one as soon as I requested it. They will outlast us and most likely our offspring who will get them when we can't use them anymore. Absolutely awesome gear.

[@BexarOutfitters]

That's awesome! Thanks for taking the time to watch and drop a comment.

[@ronrico2620]

I have sold all my internals. I now have just 2. A modern kelty trekker 65 and a early 90s super tioga(85lt I think). They are cheap brand new. Carry everything I will bring extra gear for people who are unprepared. The center of gravity is further away. But I've stuffed enough gear in them it would make a ultralite person poop their bivy. And here in Florida it's hot. It's so much nicer to feel a cool breeze through mesh over sweat soaked foam. Also in the winter it keeps my back from sweating when wearing a jacket. I haven't done this but I would say the big tioga pack could handle it. Drop my pack and strap an injured person to my frame and carry them. Or a giant bundle of firewood. I have done that. Just seemed to be more flexible. PRO TIP frame packs were from a time before water bladders. My newer pack has a area but it's short and wide unlike a tall skinny bladder. The camelback low rider bladders fit perfect. I have a full 100oz bladder where I would be lucky to get a mashed up 50oz.

[@BexarOutfitters]

Great stuff. Thanks for the great comment! Yeah, there's definitely advantages to an external frame pack, and ultimately it comes down to preference and purpose

[@elderhiker7787]

I always used an external frame as a young Boy Scout because that was all there was. The technology for internal frames didn’t exist yet. I still have those aluminum frames stored away somewhere. I’ve been using internal frames for the last 45 years with no real problems, but maybe I should give them a try again. Hmmmmm? What to do?

[@nathanferrey4486]

Try out an external on a shakedown. See how it feels. There are definitely situations to favor both but I am still a huge fan of externals.

[@friarrodneyburnap4336]

You can not compare an external frame backpack to a internal frame, external frames ...are not the same carrying device...you can compare external frame backpacks with an external frame backpack...I really like the Kelty Trekker and there Tioga...I had owned a few JanSport Carson's External frame Backpacks...the 80 liter...I always wanted a JanSport Carson 90 liters but have never been about to find one...

[@canyonmannnn]

That's ridiculous, of course you can compare. Many people are trying to decide what's the best option and which fits there needs the best. They both are designed to carry weight on your back while hiking. The roles these play overlap.

[@friarrodneyburnap4336]

@@canyonmannnn A external frame backpack carries different then a internal frame backpack...they are two different ways to carry your gear...An internal frame pack will have you bent over all day as you hike... An external frame backpack will cause you to carry your load in a more upright position...so your not bent-over all day as you carry your load....Also an external frame backpack will give you more air flow so your back will stay drier then it will if you are carrying an internal frame pack...With an External frame backpack you can carry a ultralight gear load or a 4 season gear load. . .Kelty invented and designed the padded shoulder straps, the load lifting straps, and the sternum strap....and the padded waist belt...these up grades where copied by other pack makers, making there backpack designs knockoffs of the Kelty external frame backpacks...Dick Kelty invented the modern backpacks used today...Kelty was the first backpack inventor and designer to add the waist belt...ever other companies making packs that have a waist belts are knockoffs of the Kelty packs...

[@michaelsagehorn8873]

My red Kelty from 1976 still rides well and I've replaced the straps and waist belt twice. Never fails. I own and have carried the Dana Design Astralplane Overkill in cordura. It carries military loads and extra weight as the load carrying dad. Without the need to be a military or paternal pack animal, I've return to the Kelty. It's light and easy to organize.

[@BexarOutfitters]

At the end of the day it all comes back to what you're comfortable carrying, and what you like to have around. Thanks for the comment!

[@pacificbuildingcare]

Yes I love external frame backpacks

[@albertborgman859]

Internal packs are better three season packs. They don't catch on branches and briars the way external frames do. In cross country or thick trail they are the best. ( They are more popular as the longer packs transport a taken down shotgun or rifle.) The external frames extended top and bottom for winter clothing and gear. A 0 degree bag won't fit in the packable down internal frame compartment. The big zero takes up the main compartment. So tent, pad, and Wal Mart zero would carry in the extension with parka and winter clothing on the top extension.

[@BexarOutfitters]

@@albertborgman859 where I grew up hiking you'd rarely pass a tree big enough to snag a pack anyway! Thanks for taking the time to watch my video and comment. I really appreciate the engagement this video has gotten over the years.

[@peakbagger7682]

Thank you. I recently attended one of Dr. Warren Doyle's ATI (Appalachian Trail Institute) courses In Tennessee to prepare to hike the AT in '23. Doyle swears by external frame packs. He has hiked the AT more times than any one person; he showed us his weathered, beaten external frame pack. I used an external frame pack in the Boy Scouts in the early 70s, and I got one for free left by the road with a "free" sign. I am not sure if this is my best choice. I think about the Whites (White Mts of NH & Maine), which I have hiked for over 40 years, and wonder if it is a good choice for that part of the AT?

[@BexarOutfitters]

Great question. For AT through hikes I think that the ultimate goal is speed and Ultralight gear so that you're not overburdened with stuff. I'd probably elect for something that's frameless and sub 1.5# if I was headed out on the AT. Especially where resupply and water are relatively abundant, I don't see the need to carry the extra weight of a frame on a hike like that.

[@njphotoman]

Though I'm sure everyone who ever backpacked with an external frame carried too much gear (60+ lbs), I know for certain that my external frame Camptrails Astral had great access, tons of organized storage and much easier to get on than my Osprey Kestrel 68. I recently went with my grown twin sons on an overnight trip into the hills nearby, and found packing the Osprey to be quite challenging, since I needed to stuff everything inside it. As I'm moving forward towards a return to backpacking, I'm inclined to resurrect my old Astral or maybe a more suitable external frame pack that can carry 35-40lbs easier than the Kestrel. Definitely going to look for the Kelty Yukon that you featured in your video!

[@BexarOutfitters]

Thanks for taking the time to watch and comment! Organization is a tough one and there are some great internal frame options that offer additional exterior pockets for accessibility. I have an REI flash 65 (may be 55?) That had a big J zipper on it that made interior access a breeze. You might also check out Vargo if you're looking for lighter exterior frame options.

[@njphotoman]

@@BexarOutfitters At one point, I was considering thru hiking the A.T. for my 70th year around the sun...but a really arthritic left shoulder would contribute to an early end of the hike. So, I'm looking more locally for 100-200 mile hikes. For 15 years, along with my gf, we maintained several sections of the Appalachian Trail in NJ, and I used my Astral to transport cutting tools, fuel, oil for my chainsaw etc. I do have other internal frame packs that are fine for day/weekend hikes, but in the interest of carrying, I do feel the external pack is easier to get on...since it's easy to support the weight of it from the top bar, while slipping the bad shoulder into the harness. Just wish the harnesses were more comfortable, like the internal frame harnesses. There is one internal frame pack that I believe would meet my needs quite well, ULA Catalyst

[@unknowuser1843]

Honestly...., been using an old military Alice pack for years now. Does have some disadvantages, but for a lot of stuff, cant be beat.

[@BexarOutfitters]

Alice hurt me too many times for me to take her out again. Glad it works for you though! Thanks for watching!

[@5564EVR]

The military appears to use external frame packs, besides weight, there must be more pros than cons to using external frames, or else the military wouldn't issue them.

[@BexarOutfitters]

Well, "lowest bidder" gear is always fun. Yeah, Alice packs and a lot of molle configurations make it easy to swap gear around, alternate gear setups and carry heavy loads. Stay tuned for some rucking videos in the next couple of months

[@XA1985]

I’m looking for an external frame pack 50L that I can attach a bv500 canister on top, any suggestions?

[@BexarOutfitters]

You might check out the Kelly trekker 65. amzn.to/3BZN3zW Or the Vargo AR2 vargooutdoors.com/collections/backpacks/products/exotitm-ar2-backpack Or the Alps Outdoorz commander amzn.to/3w12mom Good luck!

[@40s]

I use a messenger bag for my camera and wants something to be able to attach it to more ergonomically when it is loaded up with lenses. I was considering getting a 24 inch frame that I can take for carry one and use modularly

[@kishascape]

I have really bad chronic back pains these days. Maybe this will let me continue enjoying backpack.

[@toml.8210]

My internal frame pack had no place to add things like a tent, and everything had to b stored inside. so I had to sew on leather patches with D rings so I could dad my tent to the top.

[@BexarOutfitters]

Yeah, your mileage may vary on features on functionality. Thanks for taking the time to watch the video and comment!

[@s.sradon9782]

for meexternal frame packs are more reliable, cheaper, versatile and durable than internal frame packs for the tradeoff of added weight.

[@BexarOutfitters]

Yep, that's the crux of it isn't it. Value of an external frame is hard to beat! Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment!

[@Elkslaya1]

Every one of those packs are junk! I can’t believe you push that crap!

[@BexarOutfitters]

Thanks for taking the time to watch my video. I guess my objective in making the video is less about specific product recommendations and about not discounting an entire class of gear. My other point in the video is that you can often find decent packs on the cheap if you look on places like Facebook marketplace. Sounds like I may need to do an update video based on your feedback.

[@Dstonephoto]

Maybe I’m thinking about this the wrong way. When you deconstruct these you’re ultimately left with a skeleton frame and the internal vs external label is a redundant. The only difference I see is that internal framed packs have better engineered designs - but I see zero reason why one couldn’t simply design a better modular frame system . That way we’d have the benefits of a modular external pack with the benefits of so-called internal frames. I think the lines are much more blurred than we realize once you remove the bunk bed architecture of yesteryear’s external frames. A bag either has a frame or it doesn’t. Or I’m glossing over something major. 🤷🏼‍♀️

[@BexarOutfitters]

The modularity is a huge factor in why I think external frame packs have a place in modern pack offerings, particularly amongst hunters and those who want to set up a longer term camp and haul to it. The primary difference is the ability to separate the frame from the pack itself and use it in a meaningful way. Most internal frame packs aren't engineered to be used without the frame installed, or to be used solely with the frame. There are some companies out there making modern external frame packs, most are designed with hunters in mind, and still tend to skew towards the heavier side of things.

[@Dstonephoto]

@@BexarOutfitters Totally agree. I think we’re on the same page. In a perfect world modularity would be the standard and not the exception . Looking at my internal packs I’m often left thinking “god, if this had more modularity I would be set.” Internal packs really leave you at the mercy of a one size fits all paradigm dictated by companies - including their misleading volume specs (Osprey). Once you make it a two step architecture you’re free to mod it in the same way you could a bike or rifle. Making the market modular would further open the doors to a whole new subset of companies. I never thought about this until two weeks ago when i started planning my travel rig for my photo equipment and personal gear for Poland. Not to underscore anything here , but how hard is really to diy this? Looking at the back supports architecture on my current packs it doesn’t really seem like there’s anything special going on with the structural integrity of it. Never considered hunters as being a major market for backpacks, but it makes sense. I suppose like any other consumer driven market, once the manufacturers set the drum beat we implicitly assume their way is the only way (eg soldered ram). I saw Peli has a dedicated external frame for its cases but dear god…

[@CaptainJimJames]

Tell em. External is the best pack.

[@BexarOutfitters]

Aye aye captain! Thanks for watching!

[@snakedoc565]

How about the large ALICE pack?

[@BexarOutfitters]

I'm not a huge fan of the Alice pack, she's hurt me too many times. But there's a lot of people that use them and enjoy them.

[@insunreliable7875]

Do you have any idea who sells replacement shoulder straps for the external style packs? I picked up one for $10 today and it's in pretty good shape, but I definitely need to replace the straps and can't find them anywhere.

[@christophermoynihan4730]

Do you have any idea of what type of pack it is? Kelty and ALPS both manufacture replacement parts and they're fairly similar in styling and sizing.

[@insunreliable7875]

@@christophermoynihan4730 Honestly I have no idea. It looks very similar to Kelty style packs and might be one for all I know. I picked it up for $10 yesterday and I'm trying to see what I can do with it. I've looked at Kelty parts and apparently they don't have the shoulder or hip parts available. I can't seem to find anyone else who makes these types of parts either which is odd since it seems like there are companies who still use the clevis pin type systems. I'll check ALPS.

[@jaredanderson7494]

Ive noticed these external frames, my coleman peak1 in particular has issues w kidneu strap flapping around, any tips to fix I added some tension ropes but still comes loose after 10 mile daus

[@BexarOutfitters]

I'll have to pay attention next time I take an external frame out. I don't think I've ever had an issue with the straps once they were set.

[@jaredanderson7494]

@@BexarOutfitters kelty seems to have a better design w the very tight fabric at the bottom, coleman has a more modular design to the detriment of rigidity and load bearing may post a video of it soon.

[@I..cast..fireball]

Never understood why the Yukon packs don't have load lift straps. That's why I stockpiled a couple trekkers.

[@BexarOutfitters]

You know, that's a great question, I'm not sure why they don't have that style of strap. If I had to guess, it would be because most of the time they know that the load is going to be top heavy just by the nature of the design, so they don't worry too much about it. Something to keep on my "possible gear improvements" list.

[@monocogenit1]

I think they are designed for kids. Smaller torsos

[@I..cast..fireball]

@@monocogenit1 they are indeed for kids, but I don't get why that would mean load lifters should be omitted. I think it's just kelty being cheap.

[@liamsorensen5897]

Exo Mtn Gear

[@craigadamkelly]

I love my external frame buddy pay I've been using them for 30 years and would not change that

[@BexarOutfitters]

Yeah, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I wish more people took the sustainable approach to gear selection. (Spoiler alert, you don't need a new backpack every year)

[@Anomalous-Plant]

@@BexarOutfitters Absolutely agree! I have never felt the need to upgrade from external frame either. Mine achieves what I want it to, better than I could hope for.

[@withoutcontext7953]

Is there a way to attach a seabag to an external frame?

[@BexarOutfitters]

I'm sure somebody has done it, but the sea bag's purpose isn't for long distance hiking, it's for short transferring of goods. It's not really built for long trips.

[@gregcurlett2054]

So I've been hiking for years and I've had the Sierra designs internal frame one from Target that's served me pretty well. I recently noticed that the more I load, water, food, water. Water...(Texas 😏) it's really starting to show it's wear on me. I have made several adjustments and mods to make it work (extra lash and secure points etc) but I'm starting to wonder if an external frame would be the next step. I found a Field and Stream 45 liter on Offer Up and I'm really thinking it would be a good try, at 40 bucks too. Any advice or words would be appreciated. Thanks again !

[@BexarOutfitters]

For $40 it's hard to go wrong! Like I mentioned in the video, having that rigid frame for lash points on something heavy like water is well worth it.

[@gregcurlett2054]

@@BexarOutfitters for sure! Lately I've just spent so much time modifying mine to hold so much and I keep wondering if the external would be a good option, I've always had that romanticized thing about it too, ha. Like you said about the old backpacking guides

[@BexarOutfitters]

@@gregcurlett2054 they're really hitting a stride in the hunting community with backcountry hunters wanting to carry heavier harvests further

[@gregcurlett2054]

@@BexarOutfitters I've noticed that too, I don't really hunt but I can see the serious advantages of loading and carrying game in an external frame

[@williamle8300]

Great video. Perfect balance of facts and opining with anecdotes!!! Thank you! I’m getting an external frame!!!

[@BexarOutfitters]

Happy trails! Hope you enjoy it!

[@Uzwel]

Well I am starting into bushcrafting so I don't know much yet. But what draw me to external frame is that I could choose a camp location, un buckle the pack and go get wood with the frame

[@BexarOutfitters]

Yep. There's 1001 reasons why an external frame might be a great choice, camp chores is right at the top of the list. Thanks for taking the time to comment!

[@LakeHighiii]

An external frame allows you to carry a ton of weight. Hunting back packs for elk, moose and deer meat also rifles too are all external. They can let you carry enough weight for a month in the wild. If you hike in warm months too, it is so much better, .

[@BexarOutfitters]

I think that they definitely have a time and a place in the backpacking world. I hope that more ultralight packmakers pick up the torch and make some great new packs

[@gpwnedable]

I often have to carry a bear canister. My internal frame pack won't carry it sideways, and if I put it in vertically, then I can feel it up against my spine and I have to shove my other stuff down either side of the bear canister. So I bought an old external frame pack, and I just lash the canister across the top.

[@BexarOutfitters]

Another great reason. Bulky gear like bear cans or winter gear can be a pain to work around an internal frame pack. Mostly it comes down to planning the trip and determining what will work best for you.

[@kylestyer8240]

I bought the kiddos some kelty Jr's. But have a flash 55 for myself. This makes me want to take the Kelty's out myself.

[@BexarOutfitters]

Flash 55 is a great pack! I had the old 65 with the j-zipper, then I got a 55 to check it out a few seasons back. I've really enjoyed it

[@fudk_off1312]

i picked one up from goodwill, 7 bucks in really good shape. cant wait to try it out

[@glenn2595]

I've been using an internal framed pack for over 15 years. I dry it off and bring it into my 2-man tent when it rains. I was thinking if I go with someone and it rains the pack will in the vestibule. The bottom of the pack would be sitting on the wet grass all night, and maybe a puddle forms. I had an external pack in the Boy Scouts and remember how the frame holds the bag part off the ground. I carry my tent outside strapped to the bottom of my current bag anyway, so I thought maybe the external frame will do a more secure job. I’m researching videos like this for solutions. Thanks for the review I really enjoyed the video. Now I can see the belt would still be in the water, so I'll just either use something underneath like a water proof sheet or sit pad or try to hang my pack from somewhere inside the vestibule like lean a trekking pole in the vestibule and hang the backpack from it as it’s quite empty and light at that point anyway.

[@BexarOutfitters]

A little piece of tyvek is what I use to keep my pack out of the mud. When I use an external frame another option is to just tie the hip belt up out of the way.

[@sicko_the_ew]

An experiment you might want to try (and I don't have a definite opinion on what it all might mean; it just bears on an opinion I've heard about height of load): Take a broom handle, and balance it on the palm of your hand. And now put some weight on the top, and see how that goes. After that, move the weight lower down. My experience of balancing things like that is that it's easier if the weight is high. Similarly you can chuck a motorbike you sit high on around, whereas if you're down low it's difficult to correct any overbalancing. (So I suppose I do have an opinion. Seems like it actually makes sense to put the weight high - even though you want the support down on the hips, so the force hits your body low down). It might be something that's interesting to experiment with, perhaps rethink, discuss, and so on.

[@BexarOutfitters]

That's a great way of looking at it. I'd also think it'd be worth looking at how the broom falls if/when you do lose balance. Lower weight distribution may mean a more controlled fall.

[@sicko_the_ew]

@@BexarOutfitters Yes, that makes sense. If you're lying down on a skateboard going down some hill (I have vague and distant memories of something like that), if you lose control you start sliding right away, where if you lose control of a bicycle you first fly a bit. Not much fun if you continue to have an extra 10 to 15 kg of weight somewhere near your head. :-) But it would probably require experimentation or the reports of those who've made the "accidental experiment" of falling with a top-heavy pack. You might find if you have friends in the military that they have some relevant experience? (Of being loaded in various ways to the point of almost falling or actually capsizing).

[@BexarOutfitters]

@@sicko_the_ew I've spent a lot of time around military folks and rucking, there's some difference in the type of weight carried, etc. But general consensus between both backpackers and ruckers is that you want any heavy weight high and close. How that happens is a matter of debate amongst everybody. At the end of the day, pick what's going to accommodate the load you're carrying and your own carry style.

[@sicko_the_ew]

I actually have some military experience of running around with loads from years ago (but unfortunately I was too good at getting away with doing nothing to properly experience the whole range of such possibilities). I seem to recall that when I had to run around with an ammo case it was easier to carry it a bit "high" (but that's holding it in your hands). Our packs were WW2 surplus, I think, so not much to report there, except that civvy backpacks were much nicer (and some of the guys would just buy their own once they started patrols). "Pole PT", too was always less painful if you had the pole on your shoulder (but then there's no comfy way of carrying a phone pole. Also I managed to arrange things so that I have very little experience of the finer details of lugging such things around).

[@BexarOutfitters]

@@sicko_the_ew I'm working on a video about a goruck event that I did, lots of lugging heavy stuff around. Should be up in the next couple of weeks!

[@monocogenit1]

Isn't the Kelty Yukon a kids pack, with a shorter torso length?

[@BexarOutfitters]

It is! It works really well for short torsos like mine as well. If you want something bigger, you can check out the tioga, or the Alps Zion

[@redoak3809]

I would love to find a modern, lightweight external daypack with a canvas bag and appropriate colors.

[@BexarOutfitters]

That would be a great find! Not too many of them are sized for day use. I wonder if you could find a frame that fits you well, and then have a cottage vendor make you a bag sized appropriately

[@SamwiseOutdoors]

Pretty cool explainer on externals and what to look for. Gone ahead and subbed. Thanks for your hard work.

[@BexarOutfitters]

Thanks! I've had several people tell me I needed to do the KZbin thing so I'm working on making better and better content.

[@281covfefe5]

Thnxs for uploading and sharing this 👍🏻🇺🇸

[@wolfbushcraft3369]

My dad gife me today old external frame pack :D

[@BexarOutfitters]

That's great! Hopefully you get a lot of miles out of it!

[@SamM-lv8hr]

Loving the informative camping content.

[@BexarOutfitters]

My pleasure! Thanks for tuning in!

[@JoelWetzel]

Welcome to our next episode. For those interested, the current one can be viewed yesterday.

[@BexarOutfitters]

Haha, I hadn't thought about it that way, but I do have weekly "episodes", I hadn't really considered that most people will stumble on to one episode or another until relatively recently. Thanks for watching though! Any thoughts on the video itself?

[@JoelWetzel]

@@BexarOutfitters Good stuff. I'm making an external frame for my old NATO rucksack so it can keep on keeping on, though with a smaller USGI combat pack to keep it company. Since I have a woodshop but no money the frame is my best option and a way to practice my joinery skills. Peace.

[@BexarOutfitters]

@@JoelWetzel what would you use in that case? A pegged mortise and tennon? You might enjoy looking at some of the packs in the old Disney movie "Follow Me Boys", all the youth have varying wood framed packs.

[@JoelWetzel]

@@BexarOutfittersI'm thinking wedged through tenons and half laps, perhaps with cordage or leather wraps. In certain high-stress places I might use a single dovetail. By laminating thin strips I can do some bending to make it really cool. ALICE pack straps seem cheapest; do you know of better ones?

[@taslimhidjaz8096]

You took too much,not to the point about carrier

[@BexarOutfitters]

Care to elaborate? Sometimes your load is determined by things like water availability and packing out a harvest after a hunt. As I explained in the video, I think that there's a time and a place for external frame packs, just as there's a time and a place for internal frame or frameless packs.