Are FRT-15 Triggers Legal? Should you surrender them to the ATF?

[@Lakecenterlawncare]

Sounds like we need a class action lawsuit against the ATF

[@canyougetthat507]

Haha, didn’t this comment age well

[@fearrogue]

RIP Freedom if they beat us.

[@brokenmedic9133]

I got a letter. I can NOT afford an attorney, I am disabled former fire rescue. I bought it when It was legal and sold it when it was legal and they were bitching about it. I am fed up being bullied and will NOT give any more info on it. It’s gone. I do want to ask, what favors are in the polar opposite sides of your recommendation to surrender it or not? Money seems to be the main motivator to fight the terrible over stepping AFT but if I am broke, I am guessing I am the one that should lay down and lick their boots? Maybe I as a law abiding citizen can go to the state range and request a year and a half of video and find the sale to show them too? I’m so freaking PISSED!

[@brokenmedic9133]

@@bigdubzzzz6377 Exactly what I told them when I got the call.

[@xephael3485]

Don't talk to them, don't give them any information. If it's gone it's gone. You don't need to tell them anything and it's best that you don't talk to or engage them AT ALL.

[@xephael3485]

@@bigdubzzzz6377 No do not engage them at all. Do not provide any information, do not talk to them at all other than to ask them to leave your property.

[@Sithikus]

" it was lost in a boating accident "

[@mikesuch9021]

I know people don't say this enough. THANK YOU for being there the only time I needed a 1st responder. Hit and run by a car on my XR650R. On a lone road in Arizona. Left leg ankle and foot in eight piece's. Left arm broke. 10 min go by One car slowed then took off. 15 min later I saw flashing lights a mile or so away. Words cannot relate to my feelings at that time. Never fully recovered. I have been riding since 1966 I'm not giving up now. Hang in there. Things are going to change again./ Back... USA needs a 1st responder. And his name is TRUMP.

[@Zenergist]

If frt-15 is still being determined in court, how can owning one be illegal now ? Just because the ATF saus ao, doesn't make it so. It wouldn't be illegal until the point at which the courts rule on it. Until then, it's not illegal.

[@PsychoMantis308]

The ATF doesn't make laws. They can go pound sand

[@andrewcloy1]

This man is with the people! God bless you

[@rexmasters1541]

Imagine an attorney is tell you to call your attorney for information. The trigger set is NOT illegal and until it becomes illegal DO NOT TALK TO LAW ENFORCEMENT!!! When the trigger becomes illegal then tell law enforcement that you sold it years ago at a gun show. To avoid wasting money for useless legal work just keep your mouth shut.

[@Zenergist]

God the government hates when the private market do what they do by reading between the lines.

[@Fl3iR]

The one time capitalism is good for the majority and not the few.

[@Great_Lakes_Discus]

@@Fl3iRfound the communist. Capitalism isn’t perfect, but we’ve created the strongest, most free country in all of history with it. I’ll take it if you won’t

[@bobbobbington3615]

That unelected gov agencies can pass a "law" is terrifying.

[@robertsaget6918]

You can blame the supreme court for that.

[@charlescarmichael1124]

What I want to know is how does the ATF have the information that you bought one??

[@WhalenLawOffice]

In most cases, during the litigation they have subpoenaed the purchase records. Since the company doesn’t have physical stores and sells most of their triggers online, they keep the database of customers to comply with tax laws. So they have lists of every purchaser including their shipping addresses.

[@BStott]

Kind of curious. ATF doesn't have powers to write law. If they have grievance they are required to request Congress to create law. It's how USA Government works.

[@BStott]

There is no law against the trigger.

[@mikesuch9021]

I don't answer the door unless I'm expecting somebody.

[@michaeldarby2242]

They are legal, they have 30 days to return. Spread the word...

[@Zenergist]

How do they know who bought one without a publicly awarded warrant ?

[@markbest5127]

The postmaster gave them up on anyone who bought the WOT in the last year. Apparently DOJ has names from when they first started selling, but can't release too ATF without them providing some info. That said, I'm sure DOJ will give them up soon enough, regardless of requirements being met to steal info from UPS.

[@bigdubzzzz6377]

because they have all of rare breeds files and vendors information

[@hughezzell10000]

It's easy. First, without any warrants, they dont know. I assure you the company you bought the trigger from didn't share that info unless a warrant was in play. They have either your credit card information or your bank information or your web browsing/transaction history. With any of those three, their computers can, very very easily, track your purchases with that company, match those purchases up with the expected cost of the trigger and deduce that you have one of those triggers. I suspect they could even track secondary or tertiary purchases that way and have a pretty good idea that you have the trigger. The only real way, I see, to thwart the ATF on what you're buying, is to go to the mfg, buy paying cash, and use a fake id with fake address. It's a lot of hassle, but very hard to either detect or track. Even then - you can be assured that if they want your trigger, they'll find it. Hey - it's the US Govt we're talking about here. Dont EVER underestimate what the ATF or FBI can actually do if they put their minds to it (or ignore, if you want to talk about 911).

[@Zenergist]

@@hughezzell10000 how would they get financial information without a warrant as well? Seems like there is no legal way for them to acquire such information unless through a warrant.

[@bigdubzzzz6377]

@@hughezzell10000 it’s because they raided rare breed and have all their files , that simple

[@PoormansMachineGun]

ATF considers the Rare Breed FRT15 a machine gun because THEY CLAIM it functions "AUTOMATICALLY" by a "SINGLE CONTINUOUS PULL" of the trigger! They disregard the fact that the triggers "SINGLE CONTINUOUS PULL" is interrupted by the trigger being force-ably reset for every round fired. Applying the 5th circuits Cargill V Garland bump stock decision to the Rare Breed Case where the court stated..... "We agree. The statutory definition of machine gun utilizes a grammatical construction that ties the definition to the movement of the trigger itself, and not the movement of a trigger finger. Nor do we rely on grammar alone. Context firmly corroborates what grammar initially suggests by demonstrating that Congress knew how to write a definition that is keyed to the movement of the trigger finger if it wanted to. But it did not. The Government offers nothing to overcome this plain reading, so that we are obliged to conclude that the statutory definition of machine gun unambiguously turns on the movement of the trigger and not a trigger finger. All of this being said. Is a $400 trigger worth spending thousands of dollars in court fees, and risking prison time should you be found guilty by a jury?

[@colinv100]

Why no one will remember your name. ATF can pound salt.

[@PsychoMantis308]

Ruling recently came that FRT is not a machine gun because a machine gun requires 1 trigger pull. The FRT does not therefore it's not a machine gun

[@Monkeywrench542]

The atf lost their current case against rare breed trigger. The frt is legal again to own.

[@tso115]

You can feel the trigger set everytime it fires, a michingun does not reset. Iv fired both and there both different

[@Sithikus]

"The ATF says constant finger pressure on an FRT-15 trigger will keep a rifle firing like an automatic, and the fact that the trigger is moving doesn't make it legal." Don't let the ATF bully you,

[@CAPTIVEPULSEMAKER]

Elaborations concerning Flex-Fire 2 Technology It will become obvious with comprehensive consideration that my invention's basic methodology of positive displacement/high energy trigger reset per unit operating cycle combined with unlocking a trigger at or near being in battery can be accomplished in numerous variations by practical mechanisms. Mechanical contact between the trigger and the gun bolt may be used to prevent depression of the trigger until such depression is desired. This invention provides an effective, and technologically advantageous means capable of exceeding many features, and capabilities of existing fire control/operating system methodologies whether they are low energy trigger reset, medium energy trigger reset, select-fire, binary trigger, bump-fire, slide-fire, or full-auto only type technologies. I do not limit my invention's applications to any particular ammunition cycling mechanisms, whether hammer fired apparatus, or striker fired apparatus, or otherwise. No form of my invention may be construed as an “automatic firearm” or machine gun in any technical or lawful manner within American engineering nomenclature or constitutionally established context. The US BATFE defines a machine gun in a very strict technical sense. The US National Firearms Act defines a machine gun as “Any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger”. This definition is taken to imply a historically well-established concept. This concept effectively limits access to a firearm that may continue to fire automatically in a dead operator's hand or with a single accidental, or incidental trigger depression. In general a trigger may be moved towards, and from the operator, completing an entire trigger operating cycle. There are two distinct trigger functions and a small arm must fire more than one shot per trigger function, or two shots per trigger operating cycle to meet the lawfully accepted definition of an “automatic firearm”, or a machine gun. My invention is technically a semi-automatic type operating system that strictly and with digital precision provides a single shot per operating cycle, and this in no way qualifies my Invention as a machine gun, and therefore is not included as a NFA restricted weapon, nor does it necessarily constitute a BATFE controlled firearm of any type.

[@maybeyournextdoorneighbor]

Never surrender em

[@brucelebeau411]

When you are from Russia, you know what kgb look like

[@d.rodriguez1638]

THANK YOU FOR SPEAKING ON THIS

[@AntonioJimenez-ri7ie]

How should someone go about if he or she would like to purchase one is it illegal or legal? Just wonder considering that third an option to purchase one online

[@dannypierce1426]

Bitcoin

[@mickyashey9818]

BUT THEY ARE ABSOLUTELY 100% NOT ILLEGAL!!!???

[@PsychoMantis308]

FTATF

[@mikesuch9021]

No we don't need more Kamala word salads

[@lehisilver1191]

Is this trigger against the lawI think you can still buy them.. 😳😳😳😳😳😳😳

[@NgJackal1990]

Here’s a funny thing: “The government said rifles equipped with Rare Breed's FRT-15 triggers were capable of firing faster than military-grade M-16 machine guns, which can fire at least 700 rounds a minute.” What in the Hell are they talking about here!? 😂🤣

[@Fabio.-.]

It’s actually true, some guy made a comparison video here on KZbin

[@NgJackal1990]

@@Fabio.-. come on bro, whose side are you on? :V

[@Fabio.-.]

@@NgJackal1990 XD my bad

[@AaronScutt]

Cyclic rate has nothing to do with the definition of a "machine gun". That's a red herring.

[@SourPatchPuss]

@@Fabio.-.Don’t apologize to that dork, if it’s true it’s true, it doesn’t change the argument that we all here agree on, they shouldn’t be illegal.

[@late6812]

Curious as to how many of them have been surrendered ?

[@robjones5]

Pretty sure they were all lost on the same fishing Trip 😂

[@pARabell9mm]

TITLE - Are FRT15 triggers legal?... Yes. They are. Part of the NFA definition of machine gun says "Single Function of the trigger" the glorious wonderfulness that is the AFT has taken it upon themselves to change the wording of the law to "single pull of the trigger." They're just pissed off someone found a way to shoot giggle speeds and stay within the letter of the LAW. And they've taken it upon themselves to put down dogs I'm told...

[@daverohn383]

The FRT trigger doesn't even work. It's a total scam to get $400 outta you for a piece of shit that doesn't do what it claims.

[@Tigris_River_Sand_Fleas]

If you bought one and can't get it to work, I will gladly buy it off of you because they work great for me.

[@daverohn383]

@@Tigris_River_Sand_Fleas What are you doing to make them work? H3 buffer and a carbine length barrel made no difference.

[@shippudenkonan2070]

Switch to mcr duel feed upper. its built for full auto..

[@ellismike2793]

You do not just give anything they must give you money for it.

[@SchiZ03]

should i order one of these triggers or no its not worth it?

[@joebalu6694]

If you can find a legit site go for and if you do find a legit site I will buy them as-well , it is not an automatic fire arm it just has a high rate ( completely possible for semi which it is )

[@SchiZ03]

@@joebalu6694 do you know a site

[@johnkorn1810]

​@joebalu6694 that was my question. Is there a lot of fake sites selling them? I see them for sale but was wondering if it's legit.

[@SchiZ03]

@@johnkorn1810 not worth the purchase history all the customer service reps sound like police

[@joebalu6694]

@@johnkorn1810 no none of them are legit , at this moment in time the only trigger you can get is the WOT trigger or go binary like I’m running currently on one of my set ups hope this helps . Also remember the atf can make laws anytime but currently they say it is legal by their standards and I don’t see that changing based off of some research I have been doing and we might be able to soon own as many frt triggers as we want with no problem. Still by law the atf are in the wrong about this whole trigger thing due to the mechanism in an actual tax stamp full rate fire vs an semi frt .