Are GA Airplanes Overpriced?

[@PatrickDuffy-u3s]

In 1960, A new Cessna 182C cost $16,000. Adjusting for inflation, a modern cost of $150K, yet a brand new 182 today is from $700K to a million dollars, about 7 to 10 times the cost in today's money. Yes the technology is much better than in 1960, but not 10x better. GA is now the playground of the rich. A few people build kit planes, but otherwise, GA is out of reach for most people.

[@dehydratedrhombus2473]

Time to get rich then

[@speedracer9132]

It’s become a dream out of reach in my lifetime thanks to these prices

[@jmizzonini]

yup. i'm going to be renting it's the only way I'll be able to stay up there. Maybe when I'm in the twilight years of my flying career i'll be able to afford a clapped out cherokee

[@RenTheOriginal]

I bought my IFR certified 1968 cessna 150 ready to go for $50k this year. GA is affordable if it’s your passion and you put in some work to find a good deal.

[@antoniog9814]

I agree. The technology is much better. The new panels are beautiful, but not the engine technology. For all the advancements in automotive engines, airplane engines have remained in a vacuum. There is no reason why a brand new Cessna (or any other brand) would still have 3 levers per engine when FADEC technology has been around for as long as it has.

[@jackperry7445]

These prices are fkn sick. Its not even close to a sane world. The market will go extinct with these prices

[@Qtip855]

The Holy Grail price of a 2 seat sport aircraft should be between $50 to $80 thousand IMHO. The same price as the avg. New mid to High end family vehicle.

[@Mike-01234]

Have you priced a Mid to high end family car these days? Cars that used to be in the 30k range are now 60k F-150 quad cab Lariat is 70k before tax.

[@JB_Hobbies]

If I had $300k to spend on a plane, there is a near zero chance that it would be on a brand new light sport plane. That hypothetical minuscule chance is only open for the off-chance that some crazy light sport plane has a higher useful load, better performance, higher service ceiling, better at handling strong winds (would need to be heavier), is better looking, and is more fun than a used non-light-sport plane at the same price point. Seems like a tall order.

[@Mike-01234]

True but if they were not able to find buyers at those prices would be lesser price. That means they are finding buyers I believe lot are older people who retired in 2020-2021 during covid with large retirements are their buyers. Their health and the current FAA medical certification process makes light sport lot more attractive if they only want to fly two people around which is what most folks are when they retire husband and wife. Then have the professional 30-40 something just make lot more money then I did when I was at their level. I'm in my mid 50's I work in IT for a large company were seeing guys right out of collage first job getting 100k. If go back 6 years CIS degree out of collage made 65k wage has almost doubled in 6 years.

[@JB_Hobbies]

@ I get that there are plenty of people who have $300k to spend on a plane, but my point was that for the price, and considering that basic med exists, I don’t see why anyone would pick light sport. New light sport should be competing with used certified, but they appear to be trying to compete with new certified, and that is what has me scratching my head.

[@edwardh2f2]

There was a time when a light plane cost the same as an up market car.

[@chippyjohn1]

If you look at a nice porsche they are around 300-500k. A bmw is around 200k

[@Qtip855]

Please read my response. 50 to 90 grand….tops!!!

[@jrazzarelli]

You can blame lawyers and tort laws.

[@nicholasrucinski1651]

the problem is that they used to make so many more planes making each one more cost effective

[@cessnaace]

I have a brother in the Atlanta area who co-owns a 1949 Navion A with two other pilots. It handles well and is an amazing aircraft considering when it was made.

[@rauldiaz3193]

No airplane is worth what they are asking for it. I’ve seen the same airplane a Cessna 170 get flipped on the airplane sell sites 3 times with new mods to speak of in the pics and other than regular maintenance go up over 50k in the last 3 years. That’s just ridiculous. There is a lot of price gouging and Cessna and all the other big manufacturers need to come up with new designs instead of selling 50 plus year old tech for stupid prices. The same goes for the engines manufacturers selling 100 year old tech like it’s pixie dust magic. If car manufacturers and cell phone companies did the same thing we would be buying model T fords for 200 k and flip phones and blackberries would still be around. I realize that regulations and litigation come into play but it’s beyond crazy at this point.

[@TheZuluPilot]

Well said!!!

[@BotanistOnDuna]

In market economies, whenever there is a monopoly of overpriced gouging done by already established brands, it is bound to happen that a new business will pop up using the opportunity to deliver a similar product at a far lower price point, because that new business sees a huge opportunity to seize market share from overpriced brands. Expect a sub 150k mosaic sling tsi level four seater in the next 5 years. Also expect a risen/blackwing 916 competitor at the same price point in that time frame. Current LSAs have huge profit margins and that leaves lots of area to be seized by companies that produce planes at a lower price point, which would still be profitable.

[@chippyjohn1]

You know a 916 cost about 75k. You think a company could deliver the rest of the aircraft for 75k?

[@BotanistOnDuna]

@@chippyjohn1i checked and the 916 costs 50k, avionics should cost around 20k, labor should cost 25k, and other materials shouldn’t cost more than 10k. In total, it should cost 105k. They could make a big profit selling planes for 150k Look at the aerotrek a220, it’s a rotax 912 ultralight/lsa that cruises at 120kts and it costs 90k new ready to fly. LSAs like the risen should cost no more than 170k.

[@chippyjohn1]

@BotanistOnDuna I was talking Australian dollars. What about propeller, insurance for the manufacturer, building or warehouse costs, and much more

[@BotanistOnDuna]

@@chippyjohn1 the company would be making a big enough profit even at 150k to cover it. Look at the aerotrek a220, has all the stuff u mentioned, a rotor, and it costs 90k new.

[@chippyjohn1]

@BotanistOnDuna Looked at it. Czech made aircraft. They have been the leaders in lsa aircraft for a long time, there is a lot of knowledge and experience in this country which makes it easier for them. This is where my passion was encouraged as a child. I agree on pricing is high. I'm looking to market a helicopter I am working on, but selling it cheap, well. The cheaper you sell the more people with less money fly it. is that a good thing? People look after things less if they are cheaper, selling more means higher chance of failure, or it may mean higher fleet hours. People now want to build or buy an aircraft and then sell it soon after for something different, so many never get made or don't last long. I think it's better that people pay more for an aircraft that is really good, they look after and commit to in the long term. You also don't mention that many aircraft are now part owned, so they are cheaper even if the base price is more expensive. 300k between 4 people is better than 150k for one person.

[@PATW0LF]

It’s the reseller and private equity, like everywhere else.

[@Techdiscussed]

Prices are crazy, I want to get my license. But doesn't make much sense with these prices to be honest.

[@tripleseven8361]

Indeed, the prices are unbelievable…Look at the crazy price of the new Super Petrel XP…And if you’re in Canada, add another $.30 for every US dollar…The LSA, was supposed to be the solution to expensive “Certified “ aircraft!

[@cut2cureZ]

Someone alluded to it earlier. I suspect artificially keeping supply low with relatively high demand will allow a high price point.

[@brentprosser7293]

The issue is that a lot of these light sport planes are a charade. I mean, look at the sling 2 and the sling 2 LSA. They have the same engine and build, but one can carry more weight than the other. They just take a certified aircraft and slap less weight to meet lsa. Same with the montear plane. Same plane and engine is sold in South America as a four seater but I have to believe it can’t carry that same weight?

[@DanFrederiksen]

Word. Like I've mentioned I was offered a Carbon Design Vampire II 600 for well under 100k new from factory including chute, minimal analog gauges though. I don't know if that was going out of business or the last older model they had but if they have good prices we should definitely promote them instead of the robber barons. If LSAs used to be 100k which included the 19k overpriced rotax and all their administration and now LSAs are 3-4x more expensive and even Rotax 912 hasn't ballooned further in price. 915/916 has but that's another matter. So profit margins on those 3-400k LSAs must be extreme. I looked at JMB's eastern european factory, material and work and it sounds like they spend a little under 1 manyear to build one plane including all secretaries etc. Salary there is maybe 25k$ so all the labor for one plane is under 25k. fiberglass costs nothing. rotax and avionics costs. If we say ballpark 50k overpriced stuff and 25k for the rest it costs them maybe 100k per plane for a 912, 120k for a 915. Without garmin and rotax greed it would be 50k$ including a full year of work. Yet somehow price snuck up to 350+k$. They make about 10 a month so that's 2.5million dollars per month in pure profit that you the aviation sheep are fleeced. The answer seems to be simple, we need to call them out on it, promote those with more reasonable prices (they are often poor at marketing themselves) and not buy the overpriced products. No cirrus, no JMB, no bristell, no Risen. Risen is such a great configuration that it should be copied at far more reasonable price. Put them out of business with extreme prejudice.

[@BotanistOnDuna]

Can you recommend me obscure LSAs for under 100k? TBH I’d probably wait for a risen copy at a 150k or 130k price point, it’s great but overpriced.

[@DanFrederiksen]

@@BotanistOnDuna like I said try Carbon Design FM250 Vampire. Good looking sleek composite, 912 with decently good speed. Iirc I was offered one brand new for 83700€ including chute but analog gauges. Google them and ask. Also google around if they have ok reputation, I haven't purchased from them. Mike could do a collab with them. Put them on the map. Promote them.

[@speedracer9132]

I just don’t see how leasing/shared is viable option when you need to coordinate who can use the plane when and who’s to say the person needs/wants to fly when it’s their turn with the plane, maybe they needed to travel for the holidays like most people who would be sharing ownership also want to travel for the holidays

[@HectorYague]

That is what endless monetary and fiscal stimulous do to the economy: they distort the economy, specially is niche markets like private planes, beachfront properties, vintage cars, etc.

[@garrygballard8914]

Great idea Michael.

[@chippyjohn1]

There are a lot of people out there that are happy to pay 300-500k. Why would a company sell an aircraft cheaper if they dont have to. People in the US still buy carburetted engines for 50-75k.

[@nickbermel4726]

Yeah, it’s insane, my flight instructor bought a brand new continental for his v tail bonanza and he said it was 70 grand, immediately I thought you can buy a luxury car for 70 grand and on top of all that they gave him one year warranty🤨

[@Mike-01234]

I think I'm going to build a zenith they look funny but I think are one of the more safer experimental. The all metal construction means I don't need a hanger I can find a covered spot. Hangers in cities like mine are 10 year waits now lot of sub-leasing going on from what I have heard.

[@jdotsalter910]

Prices never go down.

[@trumpetscott]

I love this idea. Do you have any in the so cal area yet? Seems like a good place to promote this business.

[@Pa27pilot]

Another option is rather than spending 350,000-400,000 on an experimental aircraft, you can put that money into an older certified airplane and have it reconditioned, upgraded and modernized to the max and end up with a like new certified airplane. The only downside to this is that it takes about 2 years to do it right.

[@steve2736]

Two years and a boat load of cash. Fixer uppers commonly need new panels, new seat coverings, new seat rails, new rigging, new tires, new bearings, maybe a top end or cylinder overhaul, ADSB install, prop overhaul, and don't forget those AD compliances.

[@Pa27pilot]

@ yes exactly. So rather than build an experimental, you rebuild and end up with a certified airplane, like I did with my Piper Archer II. kzbin.info/www/bejne/rZCtaKaQjrSNrKc

[@Pa27pilot]

@ This is exactly what I did and I now have a like new certified Piper Archer II.

[@jmizzonini]

This is the leading cause to the death of general aviation. There will be no GA flying as we know it in 20 years mark my words. It'll be just a few ultra wealthy pilots up there along with students getting their ratings in the school planes to move onto a career in airliners. Used to be something in the reach of the upper-middle class "back in my day". Not any longer. Heartbreaking for anyone who loves flying.

[@kboy2219]

Do you guys plan on doing Rotor craft training ?

[@Truth-N-Controversy]

Love your channel.... Looking for good flight school outside state of Georgia. Do you have any recommendations.? Im in Northeast Ohio.

[@JabariHunt]

With AirMojo, do you have partner insurance companies that you work with?

[@mojogrip]

We are es exploring options

[@aaronwinchell4343]

I hope to God these new rules lower the cost of entry into the hobby of flight like damn half a mil just to get a plane, then at least 100k for your private and commercial licenses. My question for anyone who knows the answer is, can I use a federal grant to purchase an aircraft, or is that something you can't do as someone who recently turned 20 my dream has always been to get my PPL and fly but I'm working at a Circle K making 200 a week and can barely afford bills I'm living with my parents and struggling to find my footing I would like to hopefully get my commercial license and maybe go work as a private charter hell even maybe international Airlines but the prices are basically out of reach so if anyone can help guide me to that answer that would be nice as that's the only thing I can think of that would allow me to be able to do any of this please and thanks in advance

[@FernandoPerez-en8sc]

Insane those price. And what is happening? Pandemic is not here anymore. It’s time to reduce those prices.

[@tomi6261]

The industry itself is going to kill the industry. There is NO reason that these LS planes should cost this much

[@steve2736]

Precisely correct.

[@fudogwhisperer3590]

These prices are in bubble territory. They will come down. In my opinion there will be a crash.

[@flyingplumber3565]

I honestly think the prices are finally catching up to what it should be. I don’t understand why people thinking airplanes should be cheaper than cars. It blows my mind lol we’re talking about something that you get you from point a to point B and less than half the time.

[@jameshuggins7320]

Wow what a smart way to distribute costs which would otherwise be intolerable as a sole proprietor

[@Captndarty]

Stupid question geared for comment metrics

[@licence1001011]

❤WHEN i get money.... im contacting you🎉

[@FLAC2023]

Ridiculous... only for the rich that don't work and make money off the stock market...

[@Hibis29]

It's bad to live in an era of change!) Now there are mainly European brands on the market! And in Europe itself, after sanctions on Russia and cosmic energy prices, hundreds of enterprises are closing! And the rest are overcharging because they don't know what will happen to them tomorrow! According to statistics, aircraft prices grew by 7-8%, but if the president-elect increases duties on Chinese and Europeans, then no new rules will help! For a million dollars, there is only enough for a motor from the Austrians!))))