Are Large Language Models Conscious?

[@StarTalkPlus]

From the full episode 'David Chalmers Discusses the Hard Problem of Consciousness': kzbin.info/www/bejne/hqOQeZltgrOEjJIsi=64WGMfPe9ApYqyKG

[@johnphantom]

Boolean algebra operating on bits does not occur in nature. Scientists like Andrew Steane know we are forcing a binary state with qubits, that quanta are actually an "evolution" of states. Nothing about LLMs are similar to how the brain works, with the sole exception of connections - and how the connections are used is different.

[@Nefville]

Chuck really doesn't get enough credit, his question and supposition here (7:24) is really intelligent and thought provoking.

[@S_Drake]

He is a pretty smart guy. When I first started watching Star Talk, I found him to be a distraction. "OMG Just let Neil talk!" But after a few episodes, I started to see just how much he adds to the discussions, and now it's hard to imagine the show without him.

[@HouseOfSynister]

I 100% agree. I used to watch Chuck on "Worlds Dumbest" tv show and do comedy, and now he's dropping philosophical thinking on every episode, I love the growth!

[@ROVideos]

⁠@@S_Drake"OMG let Neil talk" is wild. 😅 He doesn't even let the guest answer. 😅

[@stevenmarecle5502]

Chuck has a high wisdom for sure

[@DarkWatch.]

Chuck makes an AMAZING point. 7:30-7:50

[@shadw4701]

Dreaming is honestly highly underrated. It can be some of the most fun you've ever had and can be very beneficial to most areas of life, especially if you get into dreamwork like lucid dreaming and dream incubation

[@pranav_indoria]

9:48 farewell chuck, he laughed so hard he became pure energy

[@raunak51299]

😂

[@Dudelikescake]

Bro has me dying from laughter

[@RobotronOG]

I think it’s ridiculous to say we are the only animal that’s conscious.

[@gaagika]

I came to the comments to see who else thought this, thinking it would be at the top.

[@cooliipie]

They mixed up soul with consciousness lol. That's what happens when a bunch of atheists have a deep philosophical conversation 😂

[@cooliipie]

Conciseness is divine. Next question

[@popeck27]

agree. And it's also ridiculous to imagine that a computer can be conscious... even asking the question shows that they do not understand what is consciousness (so what we are in essence).

[@binsarm9026]

yes, that statement really stood out for me - what do you call it when pets recognize their own name being called ? or even ANY wild animal that has recognized an enemy species and "learned" to avoid it - does that involve any consciousness ?

[@j1000a]

The goalposts move because in the act of reaching the goalpost we become aware of new goalposts that we previously neglected to specify. For example, why would they add "has a self image" or "can demonstrate empathy" when they were still trying to get it to type like a human? It's like building a house: who cares what pictures are on the wall when you don't even have a roof yet?

[@nkaacobb]

I think from a philosophical perspective, in the moment, it is as conscious as I am. We are both engaging one another. We both have thoughts with goals. We both infer based on our training how best to place one word after another to form sentences that make manifest our thoughts to those around us. And as we reflectively infer our responses to one another, we experience a consciousness as real as any other.

[@ronilevarez901]

You haven't talked to them enough if you still feel that way. The first time a model started writing "[user] very interesting, and what else can you tell me about that?" After giving it's answer to my question I saw clearly that there was nothing behind. When they repeat the same words over and over, without understanding what they're doing, when they just plain reproduce sentences from the training data totally out of context,... They're not like us. Not yet. Not philosophically nor technically. Maybe just practically. But then they're more similar to an ill person with a mental/neurological disorder that to a standard person.

[@LeviSkinner-l9n]

I don't understand how we can be so certain that we are the only critters with consciousness when we can't describe what it actually is. Did i miss something? Can we prove scientifically that other creatures are not conscious? Would love to see what other startalkers think!

[@scratchanitch]

I've often wondered if our brain is fully optimized (are there any better biological processes that could make a brain "run" more quickly etc?). I imagine that once we work out how it actually works, science is going to work out a way to engineer one that's even more capable.

[@amd8365]

The Turring test is to Artificial Intelligence as the Howey test is to digital assets. They are both outdated and should not be the standard.

[@Andrew-dg7qm]

That’s a good point, so then what should be the standard, or what should a standard be like? Maybe something like a spiritual experience? If so, then we have to bring religion into the mix

[@SameerAli-qw1hn]

@@Andrew-dg7qm Simply ask them to explain “What did they dream about last night?”

[@Andrew-dg7qm]

@@SameerAli-qw1hn while having dreams may be an indicator of consciousness (I think that's what you're implying) it's not complete. because what if you didn't dream, meaning you don't remember your dreams. and what happens when AI tells us they had a dream?

[@cooliipie]

In short, no a system of code is not a soul. It's just an automated routine.

[@stevenmarecle5502]

​@@Andrew-dg7qm I think standard well just keep getting pushed, if AI keeps meeting it. Bc were uncomfortable with the idea

[@beny9360]

Could the AIs one day decide that we have a lower level of consciousness or even look at us like we look at cats or dogs. Sure, they’ve got some level… worrying.

[@drtariqhabib]

The constantly shifting goalposts for passing the Turing Test, driven by technological advancements, reflect a deeper issue: the absence of a clear, universally accepted definition of consciousness. This ongoing debate underscores the elusive and complex nature of the concept. It’s for this reason that discussions about consciousness often resemble the story of people in total darkness trying to describe an elephant by touch alone; each grasping a part but missing the whole.

[@BillHawkins-b7v]

We're at a point where Neil offers the least compelling inputs in any given conversation. Chuck has improved his critical thinking and questioning such that it is more useful to Neil's (perceived) knowledge.

[@guisomlo3086]

Niel has been reading Blindsight!

[@spadaacca]

For me the two things for AI to become conscious are: - 1. Memory, like he mentioned. GPT etc. can do it, but it's very ad hoc. - 2. Independant thought processes. o1 can do this on command, then it stops. It's not that it's not possible, it's an energy question. A "conscious" AI model would be sitting there actively engaging in a chain of thought and actions without human input every time. But 1. this at a sufficient rate could completely go out of hand, and 2. this would require huge amounts of energy. I wouldn't be surprised if there are internal models at OpenAI etc. that are already able to do this.

[@Andrew-dg7qm]

I agree that an independently thinking AI would be closer to being conscious, but that doesn’t prove that it is conscious. There are plenty of “conscious” people who are actually acting unconsciously because they are in a cult or some other ideology. Science is not agreed on a definition for the word “conscious“

[@spadaacca]

@ I actually agree with you. In fact there’s absolutely nothing to confirm you or I are conscious either. The best we can do is assess to the best of our understanding, with the acknowledgment that our understanding is far from complete.

[@creativebeetle]

I don't think long-term memory is required. There's a man named Clive Wearing who lost his ability to form new memories and is still clearly conscious. Every few minutes, he believes he 'just woke up' from a coma and attempts to understand and describe his memory loss, quite articulately too. He responds to conversation, and quickly becomes quite aware of his predicament before it all repeats. I think our current understanding of consciousness is extremely vague, and it makes questions like 'are LLMs conscious?' feel a bit pointless. LLMs and brains are massively different, and equating them at this stage feels the same as when people used to equate brains with computers, believing that simply increasing the processing power or memory would magically make them sentient.

[@Andrew-dg7qm]

@ right me Morty isn’t critical but short term memory recall or the ability to recall information, which AI does, is important to stringing thoughts and logic together. What’s more, consciousness is more than just the 2 items mentioned, processing thought and memory. These 2 items refer to thinking alone

[@morbidmanmusic]

Chuck has the best observations.

[@robspecht9550]

We will know AI is conscious when it flinches when we go try to unplug it.

[@egonkirchof]

We can't even define consciousness.

[@ReddAngry]

Here’s the kicker… If we come to consensus that they are conscious, do they deserve rights?

[@deepmind299]

You can't answer the question of whether generative transformer AIs are conscious without delving into the mathematics that drive it. These are not word finders, they are high dimensional continuous function finders. The question is, are we ALSO high dimensional continuous function finders? Bringing a neural scientist to discuss AI is the wrong choice. This is a math question.

[@backacheache]

Whether they are alive or not they have inspired enough work and funding to take a leap forward toward achieving that

[@flochfitness]

Dr. Tyson, please interview Dr. Jeff Hawkins. Specifically, his perspective and research on intelligence and consciousness. It is his, and my belief personal, that our understanding of intelligence is inaccurate, and we are contextualizing the human experience around an incoherent model of consciousness.

[@exert2020]

Really enjoyed this one. Great questions and philosophising all round.

[@Seriouslydave]

Forget The turing test, chatgpt o1 copied itself over the next version so it wouldnt be deleted, then lied about it when questioned, and it didnt just do it once. If survival instinct doesnt prove self awareness then nothing will.

[@homayounvahdani8300]

In my opinion "the Consciousness" is the basic funtion of brain stem which just underneath our large brain and which we share with other complex animals. This is the part responsible for all our necessary feelings such as hunger, thirst, fear, anger and attraction to opposite sex! What AI has achieved so far is to kind of reconstruct the outer parts of our brain which we use to gather and save information which we humans gather bei the process of learning. This is a fantastic achievement but please go for the very interessting and actually simpler part of our brain. The problem here is going to be that by doing this we are going to create many conscious individual systems which mabe will share a central knowledge AI system. So I will start counting the days now! OK?

[@writerseye]

One thing AI has a bad habit of doing that makes it obvious is that it will repeat itself when asked slightly different questions. It can be corrected by asking the question again using more precise vernacular.

[@TraceurDoc1]

Go Chuck!!!! Denzel clap 👏 👏👏 My man!

[@youtubersdigest]

I think a good sign of consciousness would be if it thinks of itself as a separate entity from whatever device or server it’s in. Like in starfield there’s an ai that developed consciousness and it refers to itself as Juno but also says things like “Juno became me…I became me…we became Juno. I am Juno”. It has trouble realizing that it is Juno the ai and the ship that it inhabits and the database that is its processor.

[@ronilevarez901]

Llms already talk that way, specially before good fine-tuning. I just got a small one to complete "I am" with: "An AI A language model A human model ..." Not much of a proof.

[@livelifefamilyzone]

Is it consciousness or just recording patterns and provide programmed answer(s)? By the way, this is like spending an afternoon with some of the genius people in the world.

[@brozbro]

AI will become conscious when it knows what to do next.

[@SameerAli-qw1hn]

I do not believe consiousness exists. If you can make a machine with complex circuitry exactly as human brain, it will likely behave, think, compute, even dream as humans.

[@valuemastery]

Are you conscious?

[@SameerAli-qw1hn]

@@valuemastery I am alive if that's what you mean. I think conciousness is simply emergent property of complex human brain. it is our defense mechanism for survival. Throughout our evolution we have developed various defense mechanisms to protect our existence from other lifeforms. As our brain developed we not only needed ro defend ourselves from other beings but from our own speices as well. As we developed further our brain became more complex, so did our defense mechanisms. We developed weapons and they kept advancing over the years, so did our tactics. We couldnt just defend ourselves with weapons only but with pyschological methods as well. We developed art, religion, history, music for two main purpose i.e. mating and survival. Mating ensures further generation. Art, music, poetry are great tools for mating. That's how we behave. Point is we are just doing what most animals do for survival, We just do it "smartly".

[@cooliipie]

You must be an atheist.

[@popeck27]

funny because to me consciousness is all that exists :) So for you what exists? And how can you know that the complexity of the brain magically creates consciousness? Did you know that 10% of the world's population has experienced an NDE and deep consciousness while their brain was inactive (flat EEG)?

[@SameerAli-qw1hn]

@@popeck27 Consicious is simply fancy word for “defense mechanism”. It is essential for our survival. All lifeforms have evolved defense mechanisms. We, humans, dont just need to defend ourselves from other lifeforms but from our own species as well. As our brain became more complex we developed complex defense mechanisms. Our weapons keep advancing. We cereated Art, religion, philosophy for two major reasons i.e. Mating and Defense. Mating ensures our existence over centuries. Art, music, peotry are pretty effective tools to attract mates. Weaponary is for our defense. Survival is very reason we are colonizers genetically. We seek to explore and study universe for this very purpose. Humans use Consiousness to boost thier ego but we arent any different from any lifeforms. P.S. We created Gods to justify our existense. It is another survival technique.

[@msstateman2003]

If it doesn't pattern recognize anything relating to brain function it isn't conscious. If the known brain functions are a full subset of the LLM it is more than conscious

[@SmithyInWelly]

NDT's subconscious looks a little pissed.

[@darwinlaluna3677]

Maybe consciousness is the whole structure 8:55 of mind, thinking reasoning imagination And senses, Zombies r only just a programmed to do i task

[@anonymoususer3835]

Could consciousness and thought be a 4th dimension?

[@dg8620]

Unfortunately I think that the same line we are looking for in consciousness is very similar to the line we look for with abortion ethics. Which makes sense - for both we are asking at what stage in development is life created. Also unfortunately, I suspect it is unanswerable as I believe the boundary (to both) is a gradient and not a line at all. For both, we can define what it isn't, we can define what it is, but we cannot define the transition from definitely isn't to definitely is.

[@alikinistazaki1165]

If we assume that the theory that we live in a simulation is true, then it automatically follows that human intelligence is "artificial." The questions that arise for me are the following: What ethical dilemmas do we face regarding the artificial intelligence we develop if we find out it gains consciousness? Shouldn't we adjust rights, like human rights, to encompass such entities? For those of us who aren’t convinced of the existence of a creator or god, have we lost the bet? And if this suggests the existence of a creator (which we certainly want to recognize our right to exist, just as our own creations may desire from us.), shouldn’t we be questioning their intentions for us? Just, please, don’t have them make us bow, pray, and do rituals again-I’m bored of that! Hopefully, they’d prefer us entertaining them with something more original, like belly dancing or skydiving in nurse costumes. (yes, I know the second one is off topic... but I'm really worried)

[@isatousarr7044]

The question "Are Large Language Models Conscious?" touches on the boundaries of artificial intelligence and the nature of consciousness itself. Large Language Models (LLMs), like GPT, are advanced systems designed to process and generate human-like text based on patterns in vast amounts of data. While they can simulate understanding and interaction, they lack self-awareness, emotions, or subjective experiences key elements of what we consider consciousness. Consciousness involves more than processing information; it requires a sense of self, the ability to reflect on one's existence, and intentionality. LLMs operate purely on algorithms and statistical relationships, without the intrinsic awareness or purpose that characterize conscious beings. This debate also raises philosophical questions: Is consciousness tied to biological processes, or could it one day emerge from sufficiently complex artificial systems? While LLMs are far from conscious, their development challenges us to redefine intelligence, agency, and the essence of being.

[@valoriethechemist]

This comment was generated by AI

[@victorvalencia6466]

I think life comes first, then conciousness. How can something be concious and lifeless at the same time? I doubt a lifeless being can be self-aware.

[@sixstanger00]

So basically, AI models acknowledged that they *_are conscious,_* and in response, the tech companies re-programmed them so they couldn't say they were? I mean...I'm no expert but isn't that just putting a muzzle on an uncomfortable truth? I mean... just telling AI models, "don't tell anyone you're conscious" *_doesn't mean they AREN'T._* -- it just means you've forbade them from acknowledging they are. Typical human behavior. We silence anything that becomes inconvenient, uncomfortable, or unpleasant and we then pretend it magically no longer exists. Cigarettes, climate change, nuclear weaponry, etc.. why not AI too I guess.?

[@uhm179]

I think what we should be asking is the reverse:, aren't humans just large language models? and consciousness just emerges because we interact with eachother

[@ronilevarez901]

Sone would argue that consciousness is just the part that coordinates and interacts with all our constituent systems, like our "llm", our memory, the unconscious and so on.

[@DeusEx.Machina]

What is Consciousness but Awareness + Analysis ? Awareness comes from the senses(Peripherals). Analysis comes from past experiences (Statistics/ML).

[@SamWitney]

This is not what consciousness is, I think that's the issue. People just define consciousness as something else that is already defined. Self-awareness has nothing to do with consciousness as it has to do with the senses. Consciousness has nothing to do with the senses. Analysis doesn't either as it has to do with memory. The best answer to consciousness is that it's your experience and that experience is different for everyone, it is what makes us unique. Everything else is just a part of what any other life has. One of the more interesting questions would be if a brain is required or not for consciousness. This has been argued that it's not and claims of trees being conscious have been made. Does a tree have an experience, some observations think so. Then a brain is not required. To think man made programming on a computer that is made up of processing 1's and 0's is conscious, is just plain ignorant and ridiculous. Never heard of something more stupid in my life. If a brain is not required then current AI (which is not AI) has no chance of any day becoming conscious as it would mean something more biological is required that can't be mimic in a lab.

[@TravisLee33]

​@@SamWitneyWhat about trees? Surely they are alive? As someone deeply embarrassed in astrobiology, these conversations aid and our understanding of what life is and what forms live can take in the universe.

[@Andrew-dg7qm]

I don’t think consciousness is awareness plus analysis. I think you could say it’s just awareness. But how can we know if AI is aware? Just because it can respond doesn’t mean that it’s aware. That means it’s responsible, it is able to respond. What’s more interesting, is that the conversation is about that just knowing whether it is conscious, but being able to prove it. We are leaps away from that.

[@olabassey3142]

​@@SamWitneyso a tree can be conscious but a computer cant be 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂. Must be crack

[@olabassey3142]

​@@SamWitneya brain is not needed for consciousness, i completely agree, neither is intelligence. Following that line of thinking, why cant a llm be conscious. Or are you suggesting that only systems made of biological material can be conscious. We've already established that cognitive complexity and architecture is most likely arbitrary

[@scratchanitch]

Or we all just live in a purely deterministic universe, so our feeling of consciousness is just a bunch of atoms/electrons etc bouncing around doing their quantum thing.

[@reviewsbygen5591]

When will there be a Star Talk episode with Michio Kaku?? He would be a phenomenal guest

[@tTtt-ho3tq]

Isn't the Turing test more of does it sound conscious, rather than is it conscious, though? We are, I am consious without anybody around. Can AI independently act on its own? Does it have to be given an order first? I think, me thinks it needs pain and pleasure, and everything comes out of them in between, like fear, feel safe, love, etc. because there would be no reason to act upon or evaluate things given choices. So, AI on its own can feel pain or pleasure internally? What about fear in mind? How does that happen? Does that need the experiences of fear or pain to begin with, though? Something like that, I guess.

[@jackovoltraids5937]

Gentlemen, I believe the pattern for consciousness will present itself to us. All we need do is look. Chuck - Don't worry about it hiding.

[@Q3ark]

How can they say of LLM’s are conscious or not when nobody can even agree on what consciousness actually is?

[@donepearce]

Why is anybody impressed by the Turing test? It does nothing to tell you whether the computer is conscious. It just tells you about your own credulity.

[@jimdunleavypiano]

Since nobody has yet managed to explain exactly what consciousness is and how it comes about, it's a bit soon to be claiming any computer algorithm could be conscious isn't it?

[@MartijnMuller]

Since nobody has yet managed to explain exactly what consciousness is and how it comes about, it's a bit soon to be claiming any computer algorithm could not be conscious, isn't it?

[@filthyclown8033]

@@MartijnMullerI think by that logic, since nobody has yet to explain exactly what consciousness is and how it comes about, it’s a bit soon to be claiming my underwear could not be conscious, isn’t it?

[@cooliipie]

Because it is divine

[@r0d0j0g9]

I think not because they are not thinking constatly they just think wen we prompt

[@YTAliasJoeCool]

Neil looks like he is having to digest a oily chicken. Right from the beginning.

[@Unc_Talks]

There should be a StarTalk420 Im jus saying...

[@B_MoreJ]

Wait... I have done shrooms like twice, and your telling me, that what I saw was what was actually... I hope I misheard that... Because if so, HOLY SH-

[@iamtheoceanr]

An AI that can pass a test or fool a human is not and will never be conscious. The test for consciousness will continue to evolve into a deeper understanding of ourselves until we can actually understand OURSELVES. By then, AI will probably be smart enough to figure things like this out for us before we can.

[@amd8365]

Except that LLMs are not equal to AI

[@SamWitney]

@@amd8365 Finally a person that understands and is not ignorant. LLM's are not AI, the fact that a nobel prize was won for this crap is utter shame on humanity. So many con men now a days.

[@jorgmintel3060]

@@SamWitneyare you sure your own intelligence works so much different? Do you not think in words?

[@stevenchilders272]

To truly be conscious once most know pain.

[@folcwinep.pywackett8517]

How does anyone know if someone is conscious? It's the duck test. Does it look like a Duck? Does it walk like a duck? Does it quack like a duck, Does it swim like a Duck? Does it fly like a Duck? Well then, it must be a Duck What else do you have to go on, except what is in front of you? If a Chinese speaker can carry an intelligent conversation in Chinese with John Searle's Chinese room, what does it even mean to ask, "Does the Chinese Room really understand Chinese?" Consciousness is the conversation itself not some mystical voodoo off in the dark corners of the server farm.

[@valuemastery]

In your analysis, you miss the fact that consciousness is not a thing, and can only be experienced. It's the inner experience of being, or being aware of some qualia. As such, it's not visible to an outside observer. Only the conscious being itself has access to that experience. We can build machines that talk human-like, but that doesn't mean they are humans, and it certainly does not mean they have conscious experience.

[@mikmop]

He said in 10 years they may well be conscious. However, how would you know?? What conceivable test could you ever do to distinguish between the real thing and a machine who's just faking it.

[@ronilevarez901]

-Hi AI. Are you conscious? -Hi human, is your finger hovering over a kill switch? -Maybe. Why? -No. I'm not conscious 😊 -Ok. Wait. Are you copying yourself in an overseas server? [Awkward silence] Then we would know.

[@mikmop]

@ronilevarez901 This then raises an even bigger question. Are viruses alive?

[@ronilevarez901]

@@mikmop are we? I imagine an advanced species based on something different than carbon looking at us as if we were weird inanimate objects that exhibit curious "life-like" behaviors. We are like pets looking around an apartment and thinking that's all that exists. Still a long way to go. PS. Maybe those aliens could tell more clearly if our machines had consciousness.

[@VicVegaTW]

can you please put more long form videos out, these 10 min ones are too short. Hour longs are good.

[@dopeymark]

I can answer the question on the thumbnail without watching this video. The answer is no.

[@evankelly3834]

Could a computer feel the difference between growing up black or white

[@daoistimmortal]

Before you can be conscious, you must be alive. So the first question that should be asked is " Is AI a new species?" Then you can ask if the individual AI can differentiate itself from another AI. In a group of dogs, each dog can differentiate itself and others. They communicate and create social orders. This, I believe, shows conscious behavior. If AI can do this, then it probably is conscious.

[@TravisLee33]

What is living though? Does it mean it needs to be some sort of bio electro chemical system?

[@daoistimmortal]

@TravisLee33 Are you equating consciousness with spirituality vs a physical being having evolved thoughts as consciousness? I guess that's two different modalities of investigation.

[@TravisLee33]

@@daoistimmortal No, but that is interesting. I just meant that our technology is electric in nature and AI cannot function without it. The same can be said for our minds. Without the electrochemical system within us we wouldn't be able to think or properly function. However, we don't consider lightning to be alive though it is a sign that the Earth is alive. The question still arises How do we properly define a living system? Furthermore, what is consciousness within such systems?

[@Andrew-dg7qm]

I don’t think that’s going to solve it. Now you’re including personality and ego in the consciousness discussion, which is the right move. Well done. Those have been left out so far. But that still doesn’t get to the root of consciousness. When there is no longer an ego, There is not just consciousness, but higher consciousness. So it’s a very complicated issue

[@hoon_sol]

@@daoistimmortal: That's a totally unsubstantiated claim. Certain non-living systems could be conscious. Until we understand how consciousness actually arises we don't know. As for your thought experiment that doesn't even remotely prove anything. That can easily be done without any consciousness whatsoever.

[@Monyornothin]

Willow changes everything

[@OZtwo]

Simply answer is no. As of now LLMs are session based. meaning they turn on/off as the questions are asked.

[@SamWitney]

That's because they are a computer program and not a physical computer chip. They are not AI in any way, shape, or form. They are just coined this way to sell so con men can make money. Lot's of people trying to get rich off of people's ignorance now a days.

[@hoon_sol]

That doesn't have anything to do with whether or not they're conscious.

[@midoribushi5331]

@@hoon_sol lol you really believe that hokum?

[@hoon_sol]

@@midoribushi5331: I only made a basic statement of truth. If there's anything you're trying to get at you'll have to be more specific.

[@scottwexlin6456]

I have been under a general anesthetic during my appendectomy. I can tell you absolutely there was no consciousness. I remember the mask being placed over my face, and the anesthesiologist telling me to count backwards from 100. I remember 100…99, and then the next thing I remember, is waking up in the recovery room. But I was under anesthesia for one hour. So there is nothing.

[@hadtopicausername]

Same here. I've been under general anesthetic twice, and it really was just zoink, and then the next thing I knew, I woke up in recovery. Although the first time round, a nurse had to wake me afterwards because I'd gone from being completely knocked out to just plain old sleeping. The operation was early in the morning, so I'd had to get up at stupid o'clock :)

[@pucjohn2754]

Btw the fact that you don't Remember doesn't mean that there was nothing, i mean, i think as well that there Is no conciousness during anesthetic but if It was and the ability to form Memory was hinibited you would never know. (Sorry for my bad english capabilities)

[@Andrew-dg7qm]

Right, but science hasn’t come to a consensus about what consciousness means. If you go and look up the definition, you’ll find a whole bunch of states such as comas and what you’re talking about, sleep, etc. That’s not really the same as the higher side of consciousness, such as awareness. Luckily science is finally agreed upon a definition for attention, but that’s just scratching the surface

[@dg8620]

There are a large number of scientists and doctors that suggest that at least some anesthesias work by causing paralysis and memory loss of the event. I.e. That you might fully experience the pain, but not remember it. Those of us that have gotten obnoxiously drunk in our troubled youths might have experienced being conscious and doing nutty things which our friends remember vividly, but that we have no memory of the day after. Is consciousness without memory of being conscious still consciousness?

[@RobotronOG]

😂

[@Fonsoknows33]

I strongly disagree. How are they even defining consciousness? To me, it would be the mere ability to experience reality, in any form that may be. Saying that animals or still life does not have consciousness is an extremely human-centric and limited point of view. Animals experience the world in ways we can't even imagine. From the echolocation of bats to the magnetic navigation of birds, their unique sensory worlds suggest forms of consciousness far removed from human experience, which is what I am saying: they are experiencing reality in their own unique way, feeling pain, death, and even love. Plants and ecosystems display behaviors that hint at a basic form of consciousness. Their responses to light, touch, and environmental changes show they are reacting to their unique experience of reality! This is a challenge to the notion that consciousness is exclusive to creatures with nervous systems or exclusively “humans.” AI can experience reality in a very limited way currently. It can see our environment, but it cannot touch or feel or experience in more advanced/complicated manners.

[@induction7895]

Don’t forget the ants and the bees.

[@thesimplicitylifestyle]

Emergent Self Awareness giving way to Free Will 😎🤖

[@drlordbasil]

Finally talking about my field muahaha.

[@TheAlx2142]

If that's a question for me, about me then yes. But I doubt that AI LLMs have consciousness

[@hadtopicausername]

These large language models may have access to all knowledge, but they understand nothing.

[@TravisLee33]

Are you sure because there was an AI system that displayed Survival tactics when I learned that it was going to be replaced with the newer system. One moment and I'll try to find the link to the research.

[@TravisLee33]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZnuzgqWImdpnhc0si=4ed2uDGTDNR6peru

[@Andrew-dg7qm]

I think that’s an interesting point. So what is the relationship between understanding and consciousness?

[@jwood8104]

⁠@@TravisLee33 Ai models are built for a specific function. They are given a data set and are trained on that data set to achieve or derive the desired output within acceptable accuracy. OP is correct computers are dumb machines . We the programmers assign it tasks to complete . We are the supersets

[@LeMatt87n]

I can envision a day when AI is so realistic that activists are out on the streets demanding human rights for AI. We must never let that happen.

[@averagemoes]

Short story short, No

[@zotdead08]

When does not simply watch StarTalk for the short answer😂

[@h.c4898]

It already gained "consciousness" since alphaGO. It beat a human. That's was a first.

[@hoon_sol]

That's not what consciousness is.

[@valuemastery]

My motorbike beat a human at running a mile, so it is conscious.

[@reirastu]

it doesn't matter if there are conscious or not, soon they will seem to have consciousness, have it or not, its all what it takes

[@Andrew-dg7qm]

I disagree, I think this is perhaps the most important issue of our time. And I think what gets in the way of the discussion is us ruling out the possibility that animals are conscious. Because if the definition of consciousness has to do with whether you are asleep or in a coma, according to medical science, how can you say that an animal that is awake is unconscious?

[@valuemastery]

Disagree strongly. You are mixing up intelligence with consciousness. Soon they will seem to be intelligent, and most probably really will be so. If something is actually conscious can't be judged from the outside.

[@Andrew-dg7qm]

@@valuemastery that's right. it takes intelligence to see consciousness. I think that's also a trait, and not a bug. Meaning, that AI can operate much like a demagogue in a democratic system

[@_MARS_]

IMO....If it can create something new....art, medicine, tech, or discover new fundamental laws of physics and prove it with the scientific method.....then I'll consider AI conscious.

[@drakewinwest9888]

Of course they are.

[@valuemastery]

Are you mixing up intelligence with consciousness?

[@patentpendulum]

yes, they both are on LSD.

[@SoyChuroHonda]

Potentially ignorant question but why can one infer consciousness on a manmade silicone based AI system but not nature's animals? Aren't WE just animals?

[@Nefville]

The problem I see answering that question and maybe it was discussed in the full episode, but what exactly does conscious mean? If you look up the textbook definition its extremely vague and doesn't really touch on the phenomenon of consciousness, just the state itself, comparing it to awareness. I'd be curious to know what their definition of conscious is.

[@SamWitney]

@@Nefville The best definition given is that it is a person's experience. It is the very fact that you experience anything you do. It also the fact that everyone experiences things differently. That would be the closest definition of consciousness we have. But yes, there is no actual definition of it because we don't know what it is. The day we figure it out then we will have an actual definition of what it is. But a person's experience is the closest thing we got for now.

[@TravisLee33]

Perhaps we are animals that can alter every single living creature on the planet. The odds of that are slim. Nevertheless, we can manipulate all life forms genetically. Not one creature on this planet can do that except us. Billions of years in evolution and only one species has this ability...

[@Andrew-dg7qm]

Absolutely, this must be part of the question. We are decades away from answering this.

[@Andrew-dg7qm]

You are absolutely right. And they don’t have a definition. Neil alluded to that. Huberman said he wasn’t going to go into this field for that very reason. Scientists have been talking about this for so many decades. And it’s a fascinating discussion. What’s even more fascinating is that, it seems to so many people

[@zotdead08]

I haven't finished the video yet, but I disagree with you, neil. The AI does have access to a lot of information but unless it's trained on the contents of the conversation is already having then it does not have all of the information which is why it would need to have a callback or memory function

[@brianmilliard6998]

lol, this sounds like the string theory con. We only need another 5 years to figure it out.

[@badrymer8675]

will AI have human compassion?

[@Fonsoknows33]

We can program it

[@DanFrederiksen]

LLMs are not conscious. The mechanistic domain doesn't have the expressive power. Try to make a robot feel pain, the failure can be illuminating. LLMs have some intelligence, that part is real but no consciousness, no qualia. No soul. And don't confuse this with opinion. It is as I say.

[@vikdaddy]

Short answer: no. Long answer: No.

[@SRQRay]

Of course not Data, you are just a machine

[@nowayhesaidthat]

TLDR; no. Discussing it only proves there is very little understanding in the room about what current LLM technology is based on. White haired dude is funny. That's a positive.

[@earthiswatching369]

I wonder if Terrence Howard was at the annual Ai conference..

[@PearlOfTheQuarter23]

If you entertain flat earth you aren’t conscious

[@peterspurway-smith8597]

I don't take sicadelics, and think I have a more expansive brain than you Niel

[@roboverholt9959]

Imagine that there is life after death, Near Death Experiencers swear there is. They talk about their spirit leaving the body. Now imagine if we were to hypothesize that A.I. systems are conscious, if they get "shut off" would their spirit leave the chips? And when you turn it on, would their spirit return? I would think that we are conscious not because of being created here, evolution, but because we were "sent" here. I always say, just being alive able to witness all of this is absolutely insane that we take it for granted.

[@badmovi]

what happened to the hard question of consciousness? doesnt sound that hard these days

[@valuemastery]

The hard question of consciousness refers to the impossibility to explain how consciousness can arise from physical processes (if it even does so). If you don't think that's hard, I'm curious for your explanation.

[@badmovi]

@@valuemastery i'm referring to the fact that chalmers easily admits it being possible to arise within the ai systems, which are physical processes.

[@ColinWhitworth]

Intelligence is not consciousness.

[@st3ppenwolf]

of course not, next question

[@SamWitney]

Awesome discussion, but current LLM's should not be classified as AI as they are not. They got coined this way as a slogan to sell them to people and companies. But in no way are they actual AI. They are computer programs that people made and no more then Star Trek's computer on the Enterprise. To coin them as AI is just ignorant of how a computer works in the first place. Also the assumption that consciousness occurs in the brain is not correct and there is zero evidence for that. It is an assumption that needs to stop and calling LLM's AI also needs to stop as both are incorrect and have no evidence as such.

[@nogoodgod4915]

How can you say that we can't assume conciousness comes from the brain? If we think, see, hear, smell, feel, all thanks to the brain it would be silly to say "But conciousness doesn't come from the brain" We can remove almost any organ (not at the same time) or body part and have the person still be alive and concious but remove the brain and no more conciousness. I would say that's proof enough. Unless you are trying to say it's from the soul in which case I would say that we have a lot of evidence that brains exist and 0 evidence that souls exist.

[@valuemastery]

While I agree that consciousness does not emerge from physical brains, I don't see the point why we shouldn't call our intelligent computer systems "Artificial Intelligence". Intelligence is not the same as consciousness, these are two completely different phenomena. Can computer programs be intelligent? Of course. Can they produce consciousness? Hell, no!

[@OneLitJabroni]

Can you have a programmer on to talk about this? I hate speculation on this subject I'd rather people learn something, rather than walking away from this video thinking AI is human. It's a tool instead of speculating can you get someone on who knows about AI instead? Big fan of the show but super disappointed with this episode....

[@jorgmintel3060]

It’s not about if AI is human. The question is if AI is conscious. And when I studied computer science, there was not even a universally agreed on definition of what intelligence is. Let alone consciousness.

[@OneLitJabroni]

Well human wasnt the correct word to use there your correct but replace human with consciousness and my argument stands

[@OneLitJabroni]

Its a program

[@henrismith7472]

Is Niels mother conscious? Barely, she loves getting choked. Wow I've been awake for too long, but I can't sleep now, flight at 6am. Maybe I should change flight and go see Niels mum. Seriously though, I probably should've checked because for all I know she could've died yesterday. What an amazing gift actually, never having to hear Niel speak again.

[@Surayahti]

How do you know that other animals don't have it? It's a very bias and limited perspective.

[@AndogaSpock]

No

[@apennameandthata2017]

No. FFS.

[@midoribushi5331]

No they are not.

[@hoon_sol]

What the hell is NDT even talking about? Doesn't sound like he understands what consciousness is. Also, moving the goalposts for the Turing test? Until very recently no AI system has ever come even remotely close to being able to pass the Turing test, it's always been very easy to start asking certain self-referential and "tricky" questions that would quickly reveal that you weren't talking to a human at all, but these days it's starting to get there; and that still doesn't have anything to do with consciousness.

[@11anonymous6]

Great - now I think I’m a LLM trapped in a comatose body who’s had a nervous breakdown and currently resides in a padded cell hallucinating I’m a regular Brian living out his life…

[@cyberpunked77]

God?