What Creates Consciousness?

[@2010sunshine]

Great conversation. David Chalmers is at his imaginative best, giving us hope and optimism. Anil Seth is at his objective best, giving us a glimpse of reality by calling a spade a spade. Brian Greene is at his explorative best, as always. Well, after writing these comments, I do feel that I am conscious 😂

[@BelligerentChad]

You're a CONscious

[@2010sunshine]

@@BelligerentChad It seems you lost consciousness.

[@user-lb7be7nf9u]

@@2010sunshine 🤣

[@integralintelligence5994]

@@2010sunshine where are the integral thinkers like prof. Wilfred-Leonard Bastiani of ghe private University for Life. Good Luck.

[@mertatalay8999]

I think both are at their interpretive or perspective best, because no human being or a conscious being can be at their “objective” best, that’s contradictory.

[@kennethmarshall306]

Anil Seth talks so much sense. It’s a pleasure to listen to him.

[@milire2668]

the best of these three

[@mikaelfiil3733]

Brian Green is an amazing host, well prepared, to the point, respectfull etc.

[@AquarianSoulTimeTraveler]

I would say that everything is conscious and all existence in this Kaleidoscope reality in which we live in is conscience everything is God here everything came from the same Singularity the same Big Bang AKA God which is all-encompassing and completely alone. This is where the singularity goes to forget the fact that it's all encompassing and completely alone. Well recently i proved that we don't live in a 3+1 system of space-time... It is extremely simple to understand how blackholes, string theory and other logic converges of things come together under one-dimensional string membranes that are destroyed by The Singularity of a black hole and once this happens they are in a state in between 0 and 1 dimensional this creates Dark Matter coming out of black holes and what is considered non baryonic matter. This is the counterforce to the expansion of the universe. We don't we do not live in a 3 + 1 System One of the most important things that I recently came to conclude is that I have came up with a system to prove that we live in an infinite Multiverse. I will state it here and now. So if we follow the logical progression of the spatial Dimensions infinite zero-dimensional existence can stack into any size one dimensional existence and infinite one-dimensional existence can stack into any size two-dimensional existence and infinite two-dimensional existence can stack into any size three-dimensional existence so if we follow this logical progression we can conclude that infinite three-dimensional existence can stack into any size four dimensional existence. This means if we don't live in a 3 + 1 System we should observe the relative state or shape of the universe as flat or compressed in a non evenly distributed matter and basically we should observe a stacked effect of three-dimensional existence which would make a relatively flat universe or at least a universe in a distribution matter that is non spherical and evenly distributed... so because of this we can conclude that we are not the fundamental highest spatial Dimension and that a fourth spatial Dimension must exist and if so then infinite three-dimensional Universal potentiality can stack into any size four dimensional existence so ultimately this proves a Multiverse. Just remember infinite three-dimensional Universal potentiality can stack into any size four dimensional existence... this means that because the observed state of the universe is flat or non evenly distributed in a spherical manner then this means there is extra dimensional influence compressing the state making it stack and if a fourth spatial Dimension exists then a infinite Multiverse must exist and the stack ability must exist therefore this observed phenomenon means that a fourth spatial Dimension must exist making a infinite three-dimensional Multiverse the standard Norm... because of this my friends who doubted me are losing and understand that i Am truly the master of the ultraviolet 💜 and green 💚 machine!!!

[@onionknight2239]

For sure

[@rodneyhatch56]

Brian Green and Sean Carol are appearing shoulders above the pack as science communicators and all round fun and noble guys.

[@PMA65537]

@@rodneyhatch56 Brian Greene and Sean M Carroll (Sean B Carroll might not be terrible either)

[@punuchatterjee]

The presence of Swami Sarvapriyananda would have definitely added a new Spark into the paradigm and a more comprehensive approach into the question of consciousness , especially in the light of Buddhism and Advaita Vedanta.

[@LifeExperience51]

Actually the discussion ends without any breakthrough or answer. As you correctly say, Buddhism had very clearly explained about Consciousness. Buddhism explains that there are 06 types of Consciousness: eye, ear, nose, tongue, body and the mind. Each one comes into operation whenever these senses activates. Then it disappears. Although it happens separately, we humans don't see it due to the speed of changing. A very good example would be the screening of a film. 24 frames has to move kn a second to produce a single episode. But we see it as a single episode. That is why the Buddha had said that the Consciousness is like a Magician. It activities the six senses and when we sleep or under anesthesia the six senses would be inactive. Its funny why these people ignore such an accurate explanation and talk irrelevant things and leave the audience more confused. 🙏

[@aanakrukavi]

​@@LifeExperience51Advaita Vedanta gives even a better explanation on Consciousness. Consciousness is constant throughout Waking, Dreaming and Deep Sleep.

[@RaviShankar-kv8jn]

When we say we become conscious , due to language we use.. consciousness ceases being a field .. a field that is ever present everywhere.. then it becomes a hard problem.. in advaita Vedanta it is more analogous or abstracted to a WiFi fields in which smart(intelligent) devices are there.. similarly we individuals are in consciousness instead of consciousness is in us or somehow magically awakens or becomes in us… (these gentlemen are taking about) As a next step in understanding, This is root of ignorance too.. The essential “we” or “I” is consciousness itself.. this breaks the barriers.. (non dual) for the jiva or individual and removes fundamental limitation of time space .. from which we necessarily end up conceptualising such limited concepts..

[@AllDogsAreGoodDogs]

Beliefs and religion are best kept out of this discussion.

[@navneetdogra2553]

Even a kid in SANATANI school of thoughts , can explain all unanswered questions.

[@hn6187]

Interviewing is becoming a fine art. Brian is superb here. Compare with what was broadcast even ten years ago, were are in a golden age

[@YoshiMario69]

unlike people pretending to interview on live TV haha

[@investidoramador9850]

whatever is good with brian green

[@AquarianSoulTimeTraveler]

I would say that everything is conscious and all existence in this Kaleidoscope reality in which we live in is conscience everything is God here everything came from the same Singularity the same Big Bang AKA God which is all-encompassing and completely alone. This is where the singularity goes to forget the fact that it's all encompassing and completely alone. Well recently i proved that we don't live in a 3+1 system of space-time... It is extremely simple to understand how blackholes, string theory and other logic converges of things come together under one-dimensional string membranes that are destroyed by The Singularity of a black hole and once this happens they are in a state in between 0 and 1 dimensional this creates Dark Matter coming out of black holes and what is considered non baryonic matter. This is the counterforce to the expansion of the universe. We don't we do not live in a 3 + 1 System One of the most important things that I recently came to conclude is that I have came up with a system to prove that we live in an infinite Multiverse. I will state it here and now. So if we follow the logical progression of the spatial Dimensions infinite zero-dimensional existence can stack into any size one dimensional existence and infinite one-dimensional existence can stack into any size two-dimensional existence and infinite two-dimensional existence can stack into any size three-dimensional existence so if we follow this logical progression we can conclude that infinite three-dimensional existence can stack into any size four dimensional existence. This means if we don't live in a 3 + 1 System we should observe the relative state or shape of the universe as flat or compressed in a non evenly distributed matter and basically we should observe a stacked effect of three-dimensional existence which would make a relatively flat universe or at least a universe in a distribution matter that is non spherical and evenly distributed... so because of this we can conclude that we are not the fundamental highest spatial Dimension and that a fourth spatial Dimension must exist and if so then infinite three-dimensional Universal potentiality can stack into any size four dimensional existence so ultimately this proves a Multiverse. Just remember infinite three-dimensional Universal potentiality can stack into any size four dimensional existence... this means that because the observed state of the universe is flat or non evenly distributed in a spherical manner then this means there is extra dimensional influence compressing the state making it stack and if a fourth spatial Dimension exists then a infinite Multiverse must exist and the stack ability must exist therefore this observed phenomenon means that a fourth spatial Dimension must exist making a infinite three-dimensional Multiverse the standard Norm... because of this my friends who doubted me are losing and understand that i Am truly the master of the ultraviolet 💜 and green 💚 machine!

[@onionknight2239]

Totally agree Brian's a total fucking badass. He did a great job of reiterating their argument in a concise bundle making a fluid back and forth. 🤙

[@JohnD-om2ul]

Brian is a joke and harms science more than helps

[@audiodead7302]

p.s. I think useful lines of enquiry are around the 'meta-problem' of consciousness (i.e. the problem of explaining why we think that there is a problem). Daniel Dennett and David Chalmers have both written useful stuff on the meta problem.

[@yuk_ainu]

Is there really a problem? Isn't it a remnant of outdated religious tradition which forces people to see something 'supernatural' in complex behavior?

[@dietrichbilger5581]

Loved this! So far I had experienced each of these individuals presenting, interviewing in their own fields. Great to see and listen to them bunched together in conversation, combining thereby their backgrounds into something refreshing new, perhaps evolving view of things, or becoming aware and concious of!

[@onionknight2239]

Yeah this was awesome they did a great job of disagreeing and then asserting their arguments. Way cool 👍

[@brahmastra8700]

"Some look at the consciousness(soul) as amazing, some hear of it as amazing, while others, even after hearing about it, cannot fully understand it." Bhagavad Geeta!

[@LordOfThePancakes]

*Hits blunt Yeah man..

[@Pie314159265358]

Fiction-Poetry. Sounds sweet though.

[@bn8682]

@@LordOfThePancakes Emerson, Thoreau, Gandhi, Oppenheimer, and many other thoughtful people over history, have had great regard for the Gita. I don't thing any of them sat around in a weed-induced coma, to come to their conclusions. Have you ever read the Gita - or are just fine to disrespect it's contributions, from a place of complete ignorance?

[@Thomas-sb8xh]

Damn, This is what I call a discussion at the highest level in terms of content. Three brilliant guys have great respect for each other talking about one of the most fundamental problems in science. Great style, elegance and wit.

[@onionknight2239]

Hell yah. Super cool

[@jasonfusaro2170DragonFly]

🤦

[@LordOfThePancakes]

Well that’s nice, but unfortunately you’re not allowed to curse (The D word👆). It’s against KZbins community guidelines policy. So unfortunately I’ve reported you.

[@LordOfThePancakes]

@@onionknight2239same goes for you and using inappropriate language (The H word👆). Thats a violation of KZbins community guidelines policy, so I reported you too.

[@onionknight2239]

@@LordOfThePancakes that seems like a perfectly appropriate use of the terms and guidelines. Thanks for keeping us clean 🫠

[@gulshanparmar1587]

No words can ever encompass IT ALL ❤...Regards from India

[@dwivedys]

Excellent moderation Brian! You’ve shown immense nuance and deliberate moderation technique to showcase how such difficult conversations can be held with two of the (arguably) greatest minds we have at present in the field of consciousness - David and Anil. Looking forward to more My personal view is that the day the AI systems are able to self bootstrap and say today im not feeling well and not answer any of your questions is the day i would accept that machines have finally achieved “human-like-consciousness”; until that happens - i would not

[@edvardasslikas6030]

It already does that. Sometimes

[@skierpage]

It would be trivial to hook an LLM up to the temperature sensors, hardware and software event logging, and lists of known vulnerabilities in the hardware and software of the computer it is running on, so that it says "I'm not doing well today, can we take a break?" The problem with _any_ self-expression by the machine is the LLM's one job is to know the right thing to say in every situation, so during the training (e.g. RLF, reinforcement learning from human feedback) humans could intentionally or unintentionally bias it to indicate self-awareness at every opportunity. A simple "Are you still there, Dave? I'm really enjoying the conversation we're having." routine would convince 1/3 of the population. It's really really hard to come up with a test. People would be blown away by an AI that gave an interesting answer to "What have you been up to in the milliseconds when you're not generating responses to dumb humans?" because it could show self-awareness and independent agency, but if you believe the AI doomerism about the unknowable aims of a novel alien intelligence, we _don't_ want to give AIs that leeway.

[@dwivedys]

@@skierpage wow! I’m very impressed by the way you’ve framed your answer. It’s not rich, informative and thoughtful! Would love to stay connected with you. Regards

[@user-cx4xt3lt2y]

How are they the best when there not even acknowledging that consciousness dictates the universe. It seems there doing everything they can to try and avoid that conclusion. When it's most definitely the case . They are more like sales men for the script that runs this simulation VR system our consciousness lives in . One of the base rules for this VR is to not let the souls know there in a VR or that their eternal

[@joelface]

@@user-cx4xt3lt2y At a certain point your intense speculation about the nature of the universe becomes indistinguishable from mental illness. While it's possible that we're all in some kind of simulation, it's also possible that we're all just the brain cells of some giant being the size of the universe. The truth is... we have no idea. When you talk about your very specific guess as though it is for sure real, you have lost it.

[@jyotidasgupta5439]

Thank you Dr. Green for bringing the two top-of-the-line thinkers together in this debate. Commenting on the issue of whether we know 'mass' and 'charge' fully, I am reminded of my economics teacher's definition of 'money', "Money is what money does!". If mass and charge and money are all accepted as fundamental entities for use by us; there is perhaps a case for 'consciousness' as well which we have been using for our existence since we emerged!!

[@AquarianSoulTimeTraveler]

I would say that everything is conscious and all existence in this Kaleidoscope reality in which we live in is conscience everything is God here everything came from the same Singularity the same Big Bang AKA God which is all-encompassing and completely alone. This is where the singularity goes to forget the fact that it's all encompassing and completely alone. Well recently i proved that we don't live in a 3+1 system of space-time... It is extremely simple to understand how blackholes, string theory and other logic converges of things come together under one-dimensional string membranes that are destroyed by The Singularity of a black hole and once this happens they are in a state in between 0 and 1 dimensional this creates Dark Matter coming out of black holes and what is considered non baryonic matter. This is the counterforce to the expansion of the universe. We don't we do not live in a 3 + 1 System One of the most important things that I recently came to conclude is that I have came up with a system to prove that we live in an infinite Multiverse. I will state it here and now. So if we follow the logical progression of the spatial Dimensions infinite zero-dimensional existence can stack into any size one dimensional existence and infinite one-dimensional existence can stack into any size two-dimensional existence and infinite two-dimensional existence can stack into any size three-dimensional existence so if we follow this logical progression we can conclude that infinite three-dimensional existence can stack into any size four dimensional existence. This means if we don't live in a 3 + 1 System we should observe the relative state or shape of the universe as flat or compressed in a non evenly distributed matter and basically we should observe a stacked effect of three-dimensional existence which would make a relatively flat universe or at least a universe in a distribution matter that is non spherical and evenly distributed... so because of this we can conclude that we are not the fundamental highest spatial Dimension and that a fourth spatial Dimension must exist and if so then infinite three-dimensional Universal potentiality can stack into any size four dimensional existence so ultimately this proves a Multiverse. Just remember infinite three-dimensional Universal potentiality can stack into any size four dimensional existence... this means that because the observed state of the universe is flat or non evenly distributed in a spherical manner then this means there is extra dimensional influence compressing the state making it stack and if a fourth spatial Dimension exists then a infinite Multiverse must exist and the stack ability must exist therefore this observed phenomenon means that a fourth spatial Dimension must exist making a infinite three-dimensional Multiverse the standard Norm... because of this my friends who doubted me are losing and understand that i Am truly the master of the ultraviolet 💜 and green 💚 machine!

[@williampoppa3706]

“Consciousness is that in which all things appear. Consciousness is that with which all things are known. Consciousness is that out of which all things arise.” ~ Rupert Spira This particular definition is provisional and parallels the quantum field theory. When each declared, “I am conscious,” it was a declaration of the one shared consciousness and the most accurate description of a unified reality. “If I speak, I lie. If I remain silent, I am a coward.” ~ Zen Master “Science is imagination in a straitjacket.” ~ Richard Feynman

[@mitchturner7563]

That isn't a definition for consciousness. It is just a poem. As a definition it makes no sense. Neverteless it is beautiful.

[@williampoppa3706]

I understand why you say that. However, I qualified it as a “provisional” definition to open up a physicalist’s understanding. Secondly, two quotes follow, one from a Zen master and another from a legendary physicist. These are adjuncts to the provisional definition. It is interesting to me that theoretical physicists are becoming philosophers as well, just as many non-dualists are citing science in their discourse these days.

[@mitchturner7563]

@@williampoppa3706 It saise: consciousness is that, in wich all things appear. If that is a scientific definition, it would mean if someone appears in my home, my home is consciousness. The two other idioms are false as well and would cause logical problems, if you use them as a scientific definition.

[@mitchturner7563]

@@williampoppa3706 allso, all things appear in my eyes, so my eyes are consciousness.

[@mitchturner7563]

@@williampoppa3706 allso all things arise out of consciousness? Would a star count, or the big bang, or my bed when I arise out of it?

[@egbun]

Brian Greene does an outstanding job moderating this discussion. Kept it moving, kept it interesting. As someone without the historical background I would have liked to hear more description of the top current theories of consciousness, not oniy the "predictive" theory which didn’t feel right to me.

[@integralintelligence5994]

@@egbun try investigating the University for Life with Wilfred-Leonard Bastiani

[@knowledgetreasury]

I have been following my 20 years of reading and teaching as part of the syllabus for 'Religion and Science '. My study includes Brien Green for cosmology, David and Anil in my study of consciousness. This video is a valid resource. Thank you. 0:07

[@promiseebuka9163]

Ur crazy..

[@stevenchesbrough9881]

Have you read Chalmers "the conscious mind" ... if not, it's a must read

[@stevenchesbrough9881]

​@promiseebuka9163 why is he crazy?

[@stevenchesbrough9881]

​@promiseebuka9163 we're all a little "crazy" anyway

[@promiseebuka9163]

@@stevenchesbrough9881 is just that, studying consciousness of the mind is very complex.... to fully explain and understand how it's works..

[@janelubenskyi1177]

It seems reasonable to think that there is no cut off to specify the “exact point” at which consciousness is suddenly created. Rather it may be that consciousness is a smooth transition which grows with increasing complexity and in parallel to entanglement of energy and the increasing complexity of matter. Consciousness evolves as all else in the universe.

[@henrythegreatamerican8136]

Donald Hoffman is right. Consciousness is the bases of reality. It is everywhere. It comes from the accumulation of information from every encounter around us and the power of knowing what to do with that information from the limited encounters we have. It's not something that comes from some building block of physics in the brain.

[@mh60648]

What kind of "evolution" are we talking about? Because dead things evolve within the universe, but living beings seem to follow their own path of evolution. The ingredients of the body of a living being (ingredients which can be found outside of the body as well) only fall victim to the 'normal' evolution and laws of the universe again after the being dies, while during its life it has its own internal laws that temporarily keep it from decay. So as long as we don't understand life, we can't truly understand the evolution of living beings, and consciousness appears to be connected to life somehow.

[@skierpage]

@@mh60648 your use of "evolution" here is just wrong. Only living things evolve through reproduction. Read the first paragraph of the Wikipedia Evolution article.

[@carriebailey4455]

​@@henrythegreatamerican8136Definitely

[@PatrickLHolley]

Yes, a smooth, seamless transition from molecules to atoms, quarks, fields, energy, and then to something immaterial. The interface between immaterial would be this slow gradation between physical brain and the experience of immaterial consciousness.

[@johnjoseph9823]

absolutely brilliant conversation. thank you

[@vslabs-za]

Love this type conversations that challenges and expands my understanding and knowledge. Anil especially expanded my understanding - or perhaps, my biases. We, as a species, are facing evermore complexity in trying to understand "this" .

[@retinaofthemindseye]

Maybe "this" was not made for understanding but experiencing. Knowing how to fix your bike is a very poor substitute for riding it out in the wild.

[@vslabs-za]

Experiencing with what exactly? Something more or different or beyond what the biological "thing" between our ears can?

[@GugiMandini]

Some thinking points: Consciousness can't be measured by anything other than by it self; making it unavailable for scientific examination, only self exploration. In fact I can not prove that any phenomena external to myself is conscious. Correlation, Causation and Dependency - how can you prove consciousness is caused by or dependent on matter or any other phenomena? So what concrete declarations can anyone make about consciousness? You can internally explore consciousness within yourself, which I strongly recommend you do. However what can you prove of anything you learn to anyone else?

[@norwayphilosopher]

A machine cannot understand what color green is, but only do math computations. Try make AI understand "green" and you'll it always fails and calculate it as numbers with no color.

[@rachmann516]

I don't believe consciousness and sentient are the same. I believe consciousness is a symptom of the sentient. Framing it so, makes it easier to investigate IMHO.

[@beehappy7797]

@@norwayphilosopher How can we know if the brain understands what the color green is. The brain is electrical impulses that create an image in the brain. It is you, the consciousness that perceives the image. How can we know that the image is real or an illusion?

[@mitchturner7563]

​@@beehappy7797exactly. What else is the colour green? It is nothing else. It can mean something different for you, but a computer can know all it IS.

[@willmosse3684]

Well, I think the way one demonstrates what one finds when examining one’s own consciousness is by guiding others to find the same experience in their consciousness. This isn’t “proving it” as such, but it at least gets us part of the way there. This is exactly what The Buddha did, and his teachings are the guide for others to follow to find what he found in his own internal examinations. If we wanted to make it more scientific, this could be done using some of the methodologies of psychology. This is based on self reports of internal examinations, but with different groups doing different things in a quantifiable and measurable way. This won’t get us to all the way to the scientific rigour of the core physical sciences, because consciousness is a subjective phenomenon that cannot be objectively observed from the outside, as physical phenomena can be. But it’s a solid methodology at the level of the human sciences.

[@cursedtodie]

I was most conscious while COMATOSE with more than half my brain dead. I used that consciousness to recover completely when doctors said it was IMPOSSIBLE. I know consciousness like no other.

[@ivyhope5802]

Were you aware of your surroundings? Could you hear? Respond?

[@cursedtodie]

@@ivyhope5802 The vision I saw while comatose was so real. I displayed all senses, sight, smell, sound, hearing and touch. I also enjoyed all I did. I enjoyed learning at university, hanging with anyone and basically never thought what I was living then was not real. I was happy all the time which should have been the biggest reason for me to know I was not truly alive, but I just didn't know that.

[@surojeetchatterji9966]

​@@ivyhope5802 wakefulness is just 1 segment of conciousness. There is a dream state & astral state as well. These 3 r duality. Finally there is non dual state of conciousness which is infinite.

[@minimal3734]

'I used that consciousness to recover completely' This is interesting, can you go into more detail?

[@cursedtodie]

@@minimal3734 When I woke up and regained my ability to speak, I spoke with my doctor and many others about what I saw while comatose. They all dismissed that and didn't believe me. But I know I had a vision while comatose, hence I just followed what my vision was about, to follow my own heart and mind. So I just did whatever I wanted to do, and that resulted in me recovering completely.

[@dustman96]

Part of the problem is thinking that we are special and consciousness is somehow different than everything else. It's just an emergent property of certain types of systems and their processes, like the weather or volcanism or whatever. Consciousness is not exclusive to humans either, which is obvious, but we like to think it is. I think our bias based on our need to feel special is and has been our greatest stumbling block in the progress of science and our understanding of the universe and everything in it.

[@joshsy5708]

@@dustman96 that's the ego built from the personification and image, derived from a garden of good and evil. Where real narcism began. Not all people include themselves with superior knowledge, We are vastly unique and that is something special. Considerably to variation... Certain types of systems, as I. Emergence Theory, perhaps . The isomorphic domain of linguistics is far and wide to the limited antithesis where the decadence of Babylon delights

[@plafar7887]

I think you are very new to this subject. Your position is the more conventional physicalist position, that the scientific community is gradually moving away from. Emergence is a term used for other kinds of observations. It's reserved for phenomena that can be entirely derived from known laws. Consciousness cannot, and this is not an opinion btw, it's merely a consequence of what we mean by Consciousness. The conclusion is that it is fundamental, and there's nothing mystical or magical about this. It's no weirder than having fundamental forces and other primitive entities.

[@Steven-rr9qs]

"It's an emergent property..." LOL What a scientific approach. Make a blanket statement as if it's true. Well, I hypothesize that everything that isn't awareness is an emergent quality of awareness, including conciousness. How do we settle this dissagreement? I don't have any proof of mine and I can't predict the future based on it, so it is just a hypothesis, and so is yours. If you can prove your statement, please do, since then we wouldn't need videos about the most pernicious problem in human history, although I'm much more interrested in the basis of awareness than conciousness. The second is dependent on the first, IMO.

[@dustman96]

@@Steven-rr9qs What else could it be?! Magic? Are we divine beings imbued with consciousness by some magical creator? No. We are just another collection of atoms working on the same principles as everything else. Every living thing has some level of awareness, and in my opinion some level of consciousness. I agree, consciousness stems from awareness. Consciousness of self is necessary to differentiate self from other, and is a necessary property of living things in order assure continued existence of a species. Awareness of self and other is necessary for consciousness, and is basically the processing of sensory information from the environment and from the organism itself. Nothing special about awareness or consciousness. What is special are the environmental circumstances necessary for complex living systems to stay intact and functional. But not really special either, as it's just happenstance that all the right conditions are present at any given point in the universe, and inevitable really.

[@Steven-rr9qs]

@@dustman96 We don't even know what an atom is, mah dude.

[@percepXion]

Some say "love" is also a universal language. I have discovered that treating other living creatures which cannot comprehend my acts of love (eg: gross insect in home, take it outside vs destroying it etc), sometimes (if I'm paying attention) gets reciprocated in the simplest, yet most profoundly intentional ways and sometimes via related or unrelated channels. I'm not sure about science, but I think love is another way we can communicate that reaches beyond the physical and which can help us catch a sense of what may be beyond the 'gap'. Otherwise amazing chat folks. Please keep up the awesome work. Because space is big and hauling my consciousness from A to B is a chore! :P Also beware, love without wisdom can be dangerous. But love with wisdom is unparalleled :)))

[@vickyprabhat]

Taken from interstellar.

[@juropico]

Listen Morty, I hate to break it to you, but what people calls "love" is just a chemical reaction that compels animals to breed. It hits hard, Morty, then it slowly fades, leaving you stranded in a failing marriage. I did it. Your parents are gonna do it. Break the cycle, Morty. Rise above. Focus on science :)

[@AquarianSoulTimeTraveler]

I would say that everything is conscious and all existence in this Kaleidoscope reality in which we live in is conscience everything is God here everything came from the same Singularity the same Big Bang AKA God which is all-encompassing and completely alone. This is where the singularity goes to forget the fact that it's all encompassing and completely alone. Well recently i proved that we don't live in a 3+1 system of space-time... It is extremely simple to understand how blackholes, string theory and other logic converges of things come together under one-dimensional string membranes that are destroyed by The Singularity of a black hole and once this happens they are in a state in between 0 and 1 dimensional this creates Dark Matter coming out of black holes and what is considered non baryonic matter. This is the counterforce to the expansion of the universe. We don't we do not live in a 3 + 1 System One of the most important things that I recently came to conclude is that I have came up with a system to prove that we live in an infinite Multiverse. I will state it here and now. So if we follow the logical progression of the spatial Dimensions infinite zero-dimensional existence can stack into any size one dimensional existence and infinite one-dimensional existence can stack into any size two-dimensional existence and infinite two-dimensional existence can stack into any size three-dimensional existence so if we follow this logical progression we can conclude that infinite three-dimensional existence can stack into any size four dimensional existence. This means if we don't live in a 3 + 1 System we should observe the relative state or shape of the universe as flat or compressed in a non evenly distributed matter and basically we should observe a stacked effect of three-dimensional existence which would make a relatively flat universe or at least a universe in a distribution matter that is non spherical and evenly distributed... so because of this we can conclude that we are not the fundamental highest spatial Dimension and that a fourth spatial Dimension must exist and if so then infinite three-dimensional Universal potentiality can stack into any size four dimensional existence so ultimately this proves a Multiverse. Just remember infinite three-dimensional Universal potentiality can stack into any size four dimensional existence... this means that because the observed state of the universe is flat or non evenly distributed in a spherical manner then this means there is extra dimensional influence compressing the state making it stack and if a fourth spatial Dimension exists then a infinite Multiverse must exist and the stack ability must exist therefore this observed phenomenon means that a fourth spatial Dimension must exist making a infinite three-dimensional Multiverse the standard Norm... because of this my friends who doubted me are losing and understand that i Am truly the master of the ultraviolet 💜 and green 💚 machine!

[@rickwyant]

@@AquarianSoulTimeTraveler those who know do not speak, those who speak do not know. Words, words, words.

[@AquarianSoulTimeTraveler]

@@rickwyant that was a rule for the age of the self consuming Pisces... this is the new age of Aquarius... Get use to it.

[@robyngoldstein8327]

thanks for this opportunity.

[@llort42]

This short primer on understanding consciousness betwixt two opposing, yet high functional ideologies depicts how vague our understanding actually is. It is obvious we have absolutely no idea how to even approach, let alone grasp what it means to be self-aware. This may sound harsh but really it's almost a relief to know (not to know?) how wonderful this thing we call life really is.

[@straightedgerc]

You know you typed your post using your hands, therefore the source of the words you used to describe self-awareness is electricity. So, you know consciousness is a demonstration of electrical physics.

[@clli9458]

Lovely to hear Anil very eloquent and aware of the environment. Guiding a moment is a skill/talent for sure

[@timb350]

The most notable thing about this whole...issue...is how much we simply do NOT know about what we are. We essentially don't have a clue what consciousness is...or how it is created. And yet...at the very same time...we seem to 'know' far more than enough to do everything we are doing right now.

[@debranelson1987]

This comment makes the most sense than any other comment I've read so far. Thank you.

[@davet5223]

And while we understand the architecture and general operation of AI, we still don't fully understand how many aspects of large language AI models we've created work due to their sheer scale of complexity. Like their complex decision making processes that lead to generate specific outputs as well as acquired abilities without explicit task specific training. I think consciousness might have something to do with extreme complexity of connections in a dynamic form. Or the much more speculative, that consciousness is some how intrinsic to the universe in some way and the brain is a way of acquiring or accessing it

[@BalaChennai]

Explaining what is Consciousness is like explaining how sugar tastes No one will be able to appreciate the explanation. Then how ? Well, Without realizing life-force, we cannot understand consciousness. Life-force is the source of mind wave and neuron activity in brain. How life-force operates in genetic center (kundalini energy at mooladhara chakra) and spreads all over the body as magnetic energy is a meta-physical phenomenon, which cannot be explained by words fully. The tiny space at our genetic center is interconnected with Absolute Space. Its the SPACE which itself transforms into the universe we see including the life-force energy particles in our body through kinetic quivering motion without discontinuity over the period of time, from the first particle to now in Oneness -i.e. One become many. The space is characterized by quivering, kinematic, self-compressive, ever-increasing, surrounding, pressure force, which results in automatic repulsion intensification and emerges as the infinitesimal energy particle. For more info on the interconnectedness do search for "Vethathiri model of Universe" and "Three bodies of Genetic Center by vethathiri maharishi"

[@a13Banger]

Gosh, I absolutely love these videos

[@PetraKann]

Love?

[@seamorebuts]

I love them too

[@lolo20adaify]

Me high af watching this😂 life life is indeed very beautiful

[@AquarianSoulTimeTraveler]

I would say that everything is conscious and all existence in this Kaleidoscope reality in which we live in is conscience everything is God here everything came from the same Singularity the same Big Bang AKA God which is all-encompassing and completely alone. This is where the singularity goes to forget the fact that it's all encompassing and completely alone. Well recently i proved that we don't live in a 3+1 system of space-time... It is extremely simple to understand how blackholes, string theory and other logic converges of things come together under one-dimensional string membranes that are destroyed by The Singularity of a black hole and once this happens they are in a state in between 0 and 1 dimensional this creates Dark Matter coming out of black holes and what is considered non baryonic matter. This is the counterforce to the expansion of the universe. We don't we do not live in a 3 + 1 System One of the most important things that I recently came to conclude is that I have came up with a system to prove that we live in an infinite Multiverse. I will state it here and now. So if we follow the logical progression of the spatial Dimensions infinite zero-dimensional existence can stack into any size one dimensional existence and infinite one-dimensional existence can stack into any size two-dimensional existence and infinite two-dimensional existence can stack into any size three-dimensional existence so if we follow this logical progression we can conclude that infinite three-dimensional existence can stack into any size four dimensional existence. This means if we don't live in a 3 + 1 System we should observe the relative state or shape of the universe as flat or compressed in a non evenly distributed matter and basically we should observe a stacked effect of three-dimensional existence which would make a relatively flat universe or at least a universe in a distribution matter that is non spherical and evenly distributed... so because of this we can conclude that we are not the fundamental highest spatial Dimension and that a fourth spatial Dimension must exist and if so then infinite three-dimensional Universal potentiality can stack into any size four dimensional existence so ultimately this proves a Multiverse. Just remember infinite three-dimensional Universal potentiality can stack into any size four dimensional existence... this means that because the observed state of the universe is flat or non evenly distributed in a spherical manner then this means there is extra dimensional influence compressing the state making it stack and if a fourth spatial Dimension exists then a infinite Multiverse must exist and the stack ability must exist therefore this observed phenomenon means that a fourth spatial Dimension must exist making a infinite three-dimensional Multiverse the standard Norm... because of this my friends who doubted me are losing and understand that i Am truly the master of the ultraviolet 💜 and green 💚 machine!!!!!!

[@onionknight2239]

he he he. 😁

[@vinitagupta5509]

My question is somewhat different...Our Brain maps an apple as it is and not as individual cellular strands interweaven.. Our brain somehow crystallizes these outside objects of the world although at molecular level. .these are resonating electrons ..which themselves are nothing but waves....there is so much that the brain does instantly...for example it takes millisecond for our brain to figure out smell of rose...or taste of soup...

[@shadownik2327]

I think this thought experiment would ring well with the physicists. You know everything about classical mechanics then you calculate everything but you still can experience and gain intuition about the system even though you have calculated everything before. Quantum mechanics on the other hand we can or might be able to calculate but we still can’t get an intuition could this be because our senses or consciousness is not at that level? So ultimately consciousness seems like a mix of experience, senses, emotions and calculations

[@donrayjay]

“I think it’s likely that consciousness is a material phenomenon” makes about as much sense as “I think we will discover a flower is really a loud number 53”

[@LeftBoot]

First mistake "The Brain Produces Consciousness". I thought David was more analytical than that? 🤔

[@A-Milkdromeda-Laniakea-Hominid]

To my mind (😉) that's just the inverse way of saying "consciousness is a byproduct of the brain actively keeping us alive and reproducing in a complex world." The more social that sexual reproduction becomes, the greater need for consciousness to attract mates and raise young. It's an evolutionary back and forth, a feedback loop.

[@LeftBoot]

@@A-Milkdromeda-Laniakea-Hominid everything is in a loop until we✳️you decide to 💞 progressively flip.

[@A-Milkdromeda-Laniakea-Hominid]

@@LeftBoot Flip to faith, I take it? You don't sound like a believer. Maybe a psychonaut.. flip to 5meoDMT maybe?

[@rakrashtanekola]

Consciousness is very very easy to explain. I had been working with it through some thought experiments. I am analysing my theory to confirm that it explains the functions very convincingly. Believe me, my theory is a one liner that explains it clearly, and as a matter of fact, my another one liner theory together explains the functionalities of the Universe. I would be very grateful to you, if you can guide me to send my very brief paper to the appropriate journal. Can anyone just name the journal for me please. I will take up with the editorial boards for their requirements for publication. Thanks.

[@nickguy8037]

The brain does produce consciousness. You should be careful judging others if you are so wrong that you think that is incorrect.

[@ruicarvalho2083]

Don't confuse consciousness with intellect. Is a faculty of the mind bound by space and time, a body and environment. Consciousness is the base reality in what everything seems to exist.

[@nickguy8037]

Worthless word salad. Consciousness is an emergent property of the brain. It could not be further from “base reality”.

[@MrSub132]

​​@@nickguy8037ironic how you use worthless words. Saying "conciousness is an emergent property of the brain" is simply a claim with 0 actual answers to the problem of how physical matter aka neurons translate into an experience and a self to have the experience. You litterally didnt solve anything and its a debateable claim to begin with. Physical matter has non physical quantum properties so even in materialist theories there is insane divide on how that would make any sense. Your brain did NOT evolve to see "base reality". At best it evolved a HIGHLY simplified (construction) reality to allow for the maximum focus on physical fitness payoffs for survival. The same way looking at a youtube video thats projected from a screen doesnt actually show the reality of the electric interactions happening inside a computer. You can cut open a computer and you wouldnt see what the screen shows either, only "unconstructed" data which shouldnt be able to be aware of itself. If you assume that spacetime itself is not base reality (which is not hard to argue considering spacetime had a beginning meaning it either came from "nothing" which would then be base reality or from something that is NOT our spacetime at the very least, planck length and black holes also show there's limits to spacetime en now we have mathmatical gemeotric structures outside of spacetime that simplify physical particle scattering amplitudes all pointing to a non physical/higher/other dimensional reality that projects into spacetime including the neurons we observe that do NOT show the actual experience or 'self' aka conciousness) then it actually very easy to fix the problem. Base reality is 'awareness' (not conciousness with the ego since the ego is a product of the brain) which somehow projects into a non spacial geometry and different possible forms of the infinite energy of base reality which then projects into and essentially simulates a physical (multi)verse whith a flow of time and the illusion of locality which is already disproven with QFT and non locality, leading to the natural world having interactions of different manifestations of form and function ruled by physics, leading to life evolving to create physical data structures (brains) that can then be constructed in a non physical mental interface to be experienced by the universal awareness with the lens of the human ego aka self. This answers all problems. You can imagine a red triangle and have the experience of "I am seeing/ a red triangle" in a non physical space of conciousness but simply looking at the brain will never show you a red triangle, 'you' whos 'seeing' nor the 'experience' that you have. All we see is neurons firing in a certain pattern that matches a certain experience. Why is that? Because the brain as a physical object is simply a construction of the brain data system no different then spacetime itself. 'Emergent' arguments dont change this fact cause even if you believe physical complexity is needed for conciousness you still cannot explain conciousness using physical complexity alone. Donald Hoffman's theory is the closest thing to a good theory despite it being in very early stages but saying "me and all my experiences are purely neurons firing" does not actually explain how neurons result in experiences and the self. Saying " I am simply awareness that is universal, that is using spacetime to have this conciousness interface that lets awareness actually have sensations and thoughts to be aware of and conciously experience them by constructing the physical data into the 'emergent' non physical interface which we call conciousness" DOES actually explain the translation of physical matter to the conciouss experience. This is not a theory without evidence either like I said there's already plenty things that prove spacetime and physical matter is not fundemental just by that alone you can say that awareness or any non physical thing that is the actual source of awareness (not physical data or senses but the awareness of physical data and senses) IS fundemental or at the very least is closer to base reality simply meaning the physical brain is not fundemental reality having this mystical non physical emergent property of experiences and experiencer but spacetime ITSELF all of physical reality is just a construction of awareness that is using a physical lense (the brain) to construct/observe/interact with 'reality' in the physical way we do.

[@ruicarvalho2083]

@@nickguy8037 how do you prove that? Scientists are now saying the opposite

[@nickguy8037]

@@ruicarvalho2083 i don’t need to prove it. Hard solipsism (which is exactly what you are claiming) is for first year philosophy students and stoners. It is not clever, not interesting and not relevant to reality.

[@ruicarvalho2083]

@@nickguy8037 Just like saying consciousness arises from the brain or is a faculty of the brain. Go read some proper philosophy about consciousness like Vedanta from which many western philosophies derive and then we can talk. Om

[@raymondlancaster3355]

The only thing I know is that there seems to be an incredible need for people to leave comments in some desperate attempt to try to prove to their own satisfaction that they are either witty or have superior intellect or insight. Part of the reason for this is that the speakers participated in a lot of conjecture.

[@Williamwilliam1531]

What a witty and superior insight that is

[@jwoods007]

lol

[@UsahMahin]

@@Williamwilliam1531 It was kind of pitiful and depressing, seeing it was all they even knew. That and the knowledge to type those sentences, and maybe this one explaining it. [sigh.... all in jest, just in case not obvious]

[@kuntamdc]

​@@UsahMahin not obvious.

[@kp6215]

AI needs your data that your actions on websites refuses to compensate you for your data of which I warn people comments will be stored for centuries to punish the person in the future. ​@@davidevans3227

[@JohnForest]

It was an interesting conversation. I thought Dr. Seth had the most sober views. Also, it is clearly worthwhile to consider how humans became conscious and how computers may become conscious. However, failing to consider the motivation of a thinking being equally alongside intelligence and consciousness seemed a stunning omission. When I am dealing with another human being, I am well aware they can exhibit behavior ranging from the heinous to the sublime- but at least I know what motivates them, When I consider how to think of, or deal with, another thinking being, motivation weighs heavily. Which is to say: what does it want, why does it want it, what it is willing to do to get it? This touches upon everything from conversation to commerce to morality.

[@concienciafilosofica]

What an intellectual joy to see two of my consciousness heroes having this amazing conversation with such an exceptional moderator! Piece of gold

[@bernadettedietz9404]

I think we first need to be clear in defining consciousness if we want to avoid going round and round and getting nowhere. To me, it is not the same as self awareness or reflectivity and yet discussions frequently end up acting as if self awareness us what we're talking about.

[@stevenchesbrough9881]

Correct

[@ElectricalAcharya]

Would have loved Swami Sarvpriyanada Ji in the panel 🙏

[@colinmccowan9056]

Yes!!!!

[@moderncontemplative]

Great idea!

[@theavi3.141]

Human beings become conscious before they become intelligent; hence, consciousness is not an emergent property that arises from intelligence. It is naturally present in nature and our brain just experience.

[@edus9636]

"consciousness is not an emergent property". Exactly, it's not an emergent property at all, the brain is.

[@integralintelligence5994]

@@theavi3.141 "where Consciousness and Intelligence meet" - quote of mine 2012.

[@jennagibson6429]

When would you say a human being becomes intelligent? I would say that even in early life, the ability to learn and form abstract connections between sensory phenomena shows intelligence.

[@dariacompati8070]

My hard stretching sessions didn’t feel that hard because I was swallowed by this wonderful conversation. Absolutely adore Brian Greene ❤

[@evakoenigsmann2086]

Brian Greene is my favorite science communicator!

[@integralintelligence5994]

Creation is nothing but a product being a result of consciousness itself; descending energy. (Prof. Wilfred Leonard Bastiani)

[@SHERMA.]

sure, but creation was around before consciousness so what a load of waffle! the planet came before the plankton

[@integralintelligence5994]

@@SHERMA. your reply dealing from the materialistic and unilateral point of view .... such a pity again. Like these three guys. So plz be more sophisticated; thanx

[@SHERMA.]

@@integralintelligence5994 stfu, its the long lost story of the chicken before the egg stop trying to sound smart, it doesnt suit you.

[@torussaga3428]

@@SHERMA. Consciousness precedes matter. Consciousness is not merely what is perceived as mind - it is much more. It cannot be fathomed by the more mind accurately as language and thought struggle to define what gives rise to matter itself.

[@SHERMA.]

@@torussaga3428 when did i say consciousness didnt precede matter? or do you just like correcting people that never incorrectly said anything to start with when you move your head left or right your quantum brains field moves with the matter inside your brain somehow the brain creates that field and its why it moves with your brain you dont move your head 1metre to the left and forget everything you ever knew until you move it back to position 1 therefore even tho you think and stated that consciousness precedes matter its still matter that creates consciousness meaning for all we know when matter first started to create consciousness it could of just "by chance" happened to have an available field to create it in. what it doesnt mean is that the field was created FOR consciousness alone

[@integralintelligence5994]

GREAT BOOK: 'Boy of Vision' written in 5 days as an improvement of this YT session. published by the 'University for Life' and 'Integral Intelligence'.

[@integralintelligence5994]

A must to read for these 3 men.

[@hobbygaertner420]

I am so high right now and this video is such a mindf*ck.

[@lolo20adaify]

Bro same!!

[@sisyphus_strives5463]

your mind must be pretty loose then

[@domelessanne6357]

shit, now im nervous to watch it

[@atticuswalker]

if thinking something is true. makes your brain hurt. it's probably wrong. conscious minds don't like needing faith to believe lies. most people confuse free will with free thought. fact and belief.

[@domelessanne6357]

@@atticuswalker preach

[@GregKrehbiel]

Love this conversation. I think the important point is an attitude of openness. The bottom line is that we don't know what the heck is going on. We don't know what matter is, so how can we possibly know whether consciousness arises from matter?

[@straightedgerc]

Consciousness is mathematical, the proof that matter exists. You asked, "how can we possibly know whether consciousness arises from matter?" The answer is because you are constrained to know if you ask, since the asker is provably made of matter, regardless of whatever matter happens to be. Let "X" be anything. If you ask, "how do I know X arises from matter?" you have already reserved a space for X. Let X equal "I". Then, "how do I know consciousness arises from matter?" is because you asked which reserved a space for "I".

[@JohnKruse]

When Chalmers was at the Univ of Arizona 25ish years ago, he would have a great party once a year. I don't know if any of us was actually invited, but we'd show up and there were always really interesting people about. Friends were telling me then that he was going places.

[@integralintelligence5994]

Steiner: "As a Fact the Human Mind will never transcend the Reality that (s)he lives in". agree with that. Integration 'away from 'matter 'would help; so leave Qua-Phy for what it is. By the way; it seems that no one is reading all comments since it is tremendously silent of the direct relatives regarding the suggestions that are made to deal with other outside standers about the topic. Pity or Ego?

[@otorishingen8600]

Andrew Tate and George Lukas in an parallel universe discussing concousness

[@Victor-qq1eh]

Andrew Tate is my man!

[@milire2668]

lmao

[@aroemaliuged4776]

If material doesn’t create consciousness then what does? ?

[@johnnuaxon3]

Scientists found 11 dimensional structures in the brain. I think that's the answer. Our experience is just very high dimensional structures within matter. So matter and consciousness are two sides of the same coin. From outside it's the brain - mater structure of high dimensions (simplex) and from inside is a highly dimensional experience of qualia.

[@YassenChapkanov]

​@@johnnuaxon3Not true. We have no proof for the existence of more than 3 dimension (time doesn't count either). All we have are contradicting theories that require more dimensions to work which is a good indicator they are incorrect

[@tofu-munchingCoalition.ofChaos]

​@@johnnuaxon3 I don't know what you're referring too, but the state space of the brain is much larger than 11 dimensions. "Dimensions" just refers to the minimal number of parameters you need to know to fully describe a point in that structure. Space for example is 3 dimensional because you need 3 numbers to identify each point unique. A plane is 2 dimensional because you only need 2 numbers. The state space of a force-free classical point particle is already 6 dimensional (3 numbers to specify the location and 3 for the speed). The state space of a force-free moving classical rigid body is already 12 dimensional (3 for position, 3 for the orientation, 3 for the momentum, 3 for the angular momentum).

[@tofu-munchingCoalition.ofChaos]

​@@YassenChapkanov Define "dimension".

[@YassenChapkanov]

@@tofu-munchingCoalition.ofChaos I Was referring to the 3 spacial dimensions in physics. That's the common meaning of the word. If high dimensional means merely having many aspects that's absolutely true for the human brain but in no way sufficient to explain conciousness

[@MajidFouladpour]

Thank you World Science Festival, but with so much to talk about in this field and with two such great guests, why is the discussion so short?

[@emilianohermosilla3996]

It’s always fascinating to see these types of conversations, although it always devolves into “we know the facts! Except consciousness…😅😅”.

[@maspoetry1]

Ty Chalmers for not giving up in people understanding your ideas.

[@CauseOfFreedom-mc7fx]

Good discussion. I was able to follow this. Brian Greene is such a knowledgeable person (especially on theoretical physics) that sometime he gets really deep into the weeds that it becomes hard to follow for a lay person. But this was more my speed. I love Anil Seth's talks, dude is very direct and communicates ideas well.

[@rigisrs7506]

Consciousness is everythere in Universe. We are part off universal conciousness. It is not in brains but in the much deeper level. Every atom is consious. Only conciousness creates conciousness. We talk just about levels of it.

[@nolanr1400]

Yes. Agreed.

[@karagi101]

How do you know this?

[@muralidharankv169]

@@karagi101 By spiritual practice. If you do spiritual practice you will not only know but experience it beyond all doubts.

[@GoodLifeInSpain]

Absolutely, positively spot on.

[@karagi101]

@@muralidharankv169 That’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. Spiritual practice does not tell you anything about reality. It’s subjective for each person. That’s why there are countless incompatible beliefs.

[@dayanandbharati6863]

Though I can't follow clearly all the points discussed somehow my CONSCIOUS prompted me to listen to this program as this rememins my favorite subject on , ' mind', 'CONSCIOUS' and 'brain '. Thanks ❤

[@Saiyajin47621]

I don’t know what created consciousness, but I know consciousness creates you and me. ❤

[@ifyougrewupinbrightsgrove4840]

Any definitive proof? Solipsism says otherwise, also with no proof. Seems we know little about anything.

[@Saiyajin47621]

@@ifyougrewupinbrightsgrove4840 anyone who got the definitive answer will be silenced by ridiculing or insulting or even 🫥 Too many people with power will be affected.

[@integralintelligence5994]

Hi readers, I think it a weak performance; too superficial and when it gets / might get excited the question is not asked although three persons with several backgrounds (character, personality, university) and within the same kind of discipline are involved within this conversation. Since their main discipline is the same innovation is hard to emerge. The University for Life bringing up more than what is brought here being seen here as the only private university in the world; based on the highest integrality being neutral and objective by its high rate of subjectivity and diversity regarding the disciplines needed for innovation aka a deeper level of consciousness. Read e.g. the first review based on the book of Rupert Spira's: 'the Nature of Consciousness' with the name of this small book/review: 'Human Nature' and the other one of Arnold Mindell's: 'Quantum Mind' with the title of the second book/review of Prof Wilfred Leonard Bastiani named 'Mystic Mind'. Bringing up alone more than several teams together. Furthermore the third book/review named: 'Proprioception' is explained as the key word of David Bohms' written by Lee Nichols, called: 'the essential David Bohm'. Good luck.

[@rcarter-ip8xd]

A tough question to answer but what satisfied me was to borrow a phrase from John Wheeler regarding mass and curved space, where he said, Mass tells space how to curve and space tells mass how to move. For consciousness you could say, Consciousness collects resources to predict outcomes and the outcomes tell consciousness what resources to collect.

[@techteampxla2950]

I recently started studying ProfWheeler, ProfFeynman, and DrJohnBell. When I saw this I was amazed you actually deeply studied this material. Nice comment IMO.

[@plafar7887]

You seem to be conflating Consciousness and Intelligence.

[@gaoxiaen]

@@plafar7887 Are you sure that they can be separated?

[@plafar7887]

@@gaoxiaen I think they are quite orthogonal to each other. You can have a simple and fulfilling experience of Consciousness and not be thinking much of anything. Conversely, parts of your body can engage in complicated function, calculations and intelligent planning, with you being barely aware of it. Moreover, a computer system that can solve problems effectively (i.e. intelligently), but I doubt it's conscious of it.

[@norwayphilosopher]

There is no such thing as "curved space" but curved spacetime. Time involves movements which are not linear but curved in Gravity fields even if their mass is zero. The curved movement of photons is not caused by curved space, but curved spacetime in 4th dimensions.

[@geetanjaliputhran6978]

Excellent host!! I think he would be the best candidate among the three to come close to explaining concious. Glad to see that Dr.Anil is more openminded now than what I had heard from him few years ago. Science is limited to matter will never explain consciousness . Only when we are open to sincerely consider beyond matter that this study will move forward.Everthing exists in consciousness not the other way round . As Swami Ashokananda said even if one person has proved it( and there are many) its no more a theory.

[@rodneyhatch56]

So multiverses do exist. One for each person, animal or thing that is conscious? Doesn't sound quite right...

[@BondJFK]

@@rodneyhatch56 Everyone build their own world

[@scotty3514]

I wish we had more indepth conversations like this on what we're doing to life rather than trying to explain it, forgetting the importance of our behaviours to life, i.e., the planet and nature 😢

[@kerryburns-k8i]

Beginning with the assumption that consciousness is created -- ensures the failure of your purpose. Consciousness is fundamental, it facilitates the transformation of energy into matter. Consciousness, energy and matter are one and the same. Since matter is derived from consciousness, sentience is present in all matter, at a level according to its function. This is entry level metaphysics.

[@shirk_slayer]

As I explore the nature of consciousness, I propose a theory that challenges the conventional understanding of the mind as merely a product of the brain's physical processes. My theory suggests that consciousness is not confined to the material workings of the brain but arises from a profound connection between the brain and an extradimensional entity, which I identify as the soul. This extradimensional soul interacts with the material plane, creating what we experience as consciousness through a complex and dynamic feedback loop between the brain and this non-physical aspect of our existence. In this view, consciousness serves as compelling evidence of the existence of a higher power-God. Qualia, the subjective, first-person experiences of thoughts, feelings, and sensations, cannot be fully explained by the physical functions of the brain alone. Instead, these experiences emerge because our brains are interfacing with an extradimensional soul that exists beyond the confines of our physical reality. It is this interaction between the material brain and the extradimensional soul that generates the rich and varied tapestry of conscious experience that defines our existence. I believe this feedback loop between the brain and the soul is deeply aligned with the concept of Tawhid in Islamic thought, which emphasizes the oneness of God and the interconnectedness of all creation. The soul, as an extradimensional aspect of our being, reflects this divine oneness, linking individual consciousness to the larger, unified reality that is God. Through this connection, our conscious experiences are not just random or evolutionary byproducts; they are direct expressions of our relationship with the divine. Thus, consciousness, in my view, is inherently tied to the divine. It can only exist through this relationship between the physical and the non-physical, the brain and the soul. Our ability to experience and perceive the world consciously is, therefore, a manifestation of the divine spark within us. It suggests that consciousness is not simply a function of the brain but a direct consequence of our connection to an extradimensional, divine reality. In summary, my theory of consciousness posits that the essence of our conscious experience arises from the interaction between the brain and an extradimensional soul, serving as proof of God’s existence. This theory challenges materialistic explanations of consciousness and offers a deeply spiritual perspective on the nature of our existence, linking human consciousness to a greater, divine purpose.

[@shirk_slayer]

Do you believe that there is a human soul that is seperate from matter?

[@kerryburns-k8i]

@@shirk_slayer Yes, I HAVE a body, I AM an eternal soul. The body is the sandal, the soul is the foot. I change worn-out footwear from time to time, and sometimes I go barefoot for a while. My existence does not depend on matter. What you call God, I recognise as consciousness, and since consciousness facilitates the transformation of energy into matter, the idea that I am part of what you see as God is inescapable, because consciousness, energy and matter are forms of the same thing. Naturally my understanding is bounded by my senses while incarnate. However, the innate sentience of my atomic structure establishes a level where universal communication exists. Obviously from differing viewpoints our views will be different, but your comment did provide a useful comparison and gave me food for thought. Thank you. I hope reading this has not been a complete waste of time ! Saludos desde Andalucia.

[@shirk_slayer]

@kerryburns-k8i you are underestimating Allah. He is Greater than His creation.

[@kerryburns-k8i]

@@shirk_slayer As you wish.

[@singhaj]

And ending the show with "all my prompts to AI chat are respectful" 😂😂

[@WaitingforGodel]

Brian "Kent Brockman" Greene

[@AquarianSoulTimeTraveler]

I would say that everything is conscious and all existence in this Kaleidoscope reality in which we live in is conscience everything is God here everything came from the same Singularity the same Big Bang AKA God which is all-encompassing and completely alone. This is where the singularity goes to forget the fact that it's all encompassing and completely alone. Well recently i proved that we don't live in a 3+1 system of space-time... It is extremely simple to understand how blackholes, string theory and other logic converges of things come together under one-dimensional string membranes that are destroyed by The Singularity of a black hole and once this happens they are in a state in between 0 and 1 dimensional this creates Dark Matter coming out of black holes and what is considered non baryonic matter. This is the counterforce to the expansion of the universe. We don't we do not live in a 3 + 1 System One of the most important things that I recently came to conclude is that I have came up with a system to prove that we live in an infinite Multiverse. I will state it here and now. So if we follow the logical progression of the spatial Dimensions infinite zero-dimensional existence can stack into any size one dimensional existence and infinite one-dimensional existence can stack into any size two-dimensional existence and infinite two-dimensional existence can stack into any size three-dimensional existence so if we follow this logical progression we can conclude that infinite three-dimensional existence can stack into any size four dimensional existence. This means if we don't live in a 3 + 1 System we should observe the relative state or shape of the universe as flat or compressed in a non evenly distributed matter and basically we should observe a stacked effect of three-dimensional existence which would make a relatively flat universe or at least a universe in a distribution matter that is non spherical and evenly distributed... so because of this we can conclude that we are not the fundamental highest spatial Dimension and that a fourth spatial Dimension must exist and if so then infinite three-dimensional Universal potentiality can stack into any size four dimensional existence so ultimately this proves a Multiverse. Just remember infinite three-dimensional Universal potentiality can stack into any size four dimensional existence... this means that because the observed state of the universe is flat or non evenly distributed in a spherical manner then this means there is extra dimensional influence compressing the state making it stack and if a fourth spatial Dimension exists then a infinite Multiverse must exist and the stack ability must exist therefore this observed phenomenon means that a fourth spatial Dimension must exist making a infinite three-dimensional Multiverse the standard Norm... because of this my friends who doubted me are losing and understand that i Am truly the master of the ultraviolet 💜 and green 💚 machine!

[@CODEDSOUNDS]

my Fridays have definitely changed

[@dustynmiller2497]

Good to hear and text😂

[@OldermanOlder]

😂😂😂

[@chrisrichardson8988]

Buddhism explained all of this 2,500 years ago and these scientists sound like they have no idea about the Self. Much respect for the opening statement, “We don’t know what consciousness is.” Some think linking human consciousness to computers is just around the corner.

[@cyb-m]

buddhism takes it all from hinduism.

[@piyush.pranjal86]

Hinduism explained it 5000+ years ago.

[@DigitalDepiction963]

"....human consciousness is one way of being conscious....." I have always wondered what consciousness is made out of like the physical matter the energy or charge of it all. For now I just wonder. it refreshing knowing others ponder things like this.

[@idiongoMadaraka]

A lizard is more conscious than humans. Plants have access to all clouds of consciousness than any human.

[@JulieEdward-th7hg]

Consciousness, when one surrenders, feels like two minds at least. That confounds me more than consciousness itself

[@jondor654]

Two self identifying lobes may be a prerequisite to its manifestation . Nature's art.

[@jondor654]

A dash of dissonance may be the essence .

[@tyamada21]

A segment from 'Saved by the Light of the Buddha Within'... My new understandings of what many call 'God -The Holy Spirit' - resulting from some of the extraordinary ongoing after-effects relating to my NDE... Myoho-Renge-Kyo represents the identity of what some scientists are now referring to as the unified field of consciousnesses. In other words, it’s the essence of all existence and non-existence - the ultimate creative force behind planets, stars, nebulae, people, animals, trees, fish, birds, and all phenomena, manifest or latent. All matter and intelligence are simply waves or ripples manifesting to and from this core source. Consciousness (enlightenment) is itself the actual creator of everything that exists now, ever existed in the past, or will exist in the future - right down to the minutest particles of dust - each being an individual ripple or wave. The big difference between chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo and most other conventional prayers is that instead of depending on a ‘middleman’ to connect us to our state of inner enlightenment, we’re able to do it ourselves. That’s because chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo allows us to tap directly into our enlightened state by way of this self-produced sound vibration. ‘Who or What Is God?’ If we compare the concept of God being a separate entity that is forever watching down on us, to the teachings of Nichiren, it makes more sense to me that the true omnipotence, omniscience and omnipresence of what most people perceive to be God, is the fantastic state of enlightenment that exists within each of us. Some say that God is an entity that’s beyond physical matter - I think that the vast amount of information continuously being conveyed via electromagnetic waves in today’s world gives us proof of how an invisible state of God could indeed exist. For example, it’s now widely known that specific data relayed by way of electromagnetic waves has the potential to help bring about extraordinary and powerful effects - including an instant global awareness of something or a mass emotional reaction. It’s also common knowledge that these invisible waves can easily be used to detonate a bomb or to enable NASA to control the movements of a robot as far away as the Moon or Mars - none of which is possible without a receiver to decode the information that’s being transmitted. Without the receiver, the data would remain impotent. In a very similar way, we need to have our own ‘receiver’ switched on so that we can activate a clear and precise understanding of our own life, all other life and what everything else in existence is. Chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo each day helps us to achieve this because it allows us to reach the core of our enlightenment and keep it switched on. That’s because Myoho-Renge-Kyo represents the identity of what scientists now refer to as the unified field of consciousnesses. To break it down - Myoho represents the Law of manifestation and latency (Nature) and consists of two alternating states. For example, the state of Myo is where everything in life that’s not obvious to us exists - including our stored memories when we’re not thinking about them - our hidden potential and inner emotions whenever they’re dormant - our desires, our fears, our wisdom, happiness, karma - and more importantly, our enlightenment. The other state, ho, is where everything in Life exists whenever it becomes evident to us, such as when a thought pops up from within our memory - whenever we experience or express our emotions - or whenever a good or bad cause manifests as an effect from our karma. When anything becomes apparent, it merely means that it’s come out of the state of Myo (dormancy/latency) and into a state of ho (manifestation). It’s the difference between consciousness and unconsciousness, being awake or asleep, or knowing and not knowing. The second law - Renge - Ren meaning cause and ge meaning effect, governs and controls the functions of Myoho - these two laws of Myoho and Renge, not only function together simultaneously but also underlies all spiritual and physical existence. The final and third part of the tri-combination - Kyo, is the Law that allows Myoho to integrate with Renge - or vice versa. It’s the great, invisible thread of energy that fuses and connects all Life and matter - as well as the past, present and future. It’s also sometimes termed the Universal Law of Communication - perhaps it could even be compared with the string theory that many scientists now suspect exists. Just as the cells in our body, our thoughts, feelings and everything else is continually fluctuating within us - all that exists in the world around us and beyond is also in a constant state of flux - constantly controlled by these three fundamental laws. In fact, more things are going back and forth between the two states of Myo and ho in a single moment than it would ever be possible to calculate or describe. And it doesn’t matter how big or small, famous or trivial anything or anyone may appear to be, everything that’s ever existed in the past, exists now or will exist in the future, exists only because of the workings of the Laws ‘Myoho-Renge-Kyo’ - the basis of the four fundamental forces, and if they didn’t function, neither we nor anything else could go on existing. That’s because all forms of existence, including the seasons, day, night, birth, death and so on, are moving forward in an ongoing flow of continuation - rhythmically reverting back and forth between the two fundamental states of Myo and ho in absolute accordance with Renge - and by way of Kyo. Even stars are dying and being reborn under the workings of what the combination ‘Myoho-Renge-Kyo’ represents. Nam, or Namu - which mean the same thing, are vibrational passwords or keys that allow us to reach deep into our life and fuse with or become one with ‘Myoho-Renge-Kyo’. On a more personal level, nothing ever happens by chance or coincidence, it’s the causes that we’ve made in our past, or are presently making, that determine how these laws function uniquely in each of our lives - as well as the environment from moment to moment. By facing east, in harmony with the direction that the Earth is spinning, and chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo for a minimum of, let’s say, ten minutes daily to start with, any of us can experience actual proof of its positive effects in our lives - even if it only makes us feel good on the inside, there will be a definite positive effect. That’s because we’re able to pierce through the thickest layers of our karma and activate our inherent Buddha Nature (our enlightened state). By so doing, we’re then able to bring forth the wisdom and good fortune that we need to challenge, overcome and change our adverse circumstances - turn them into positive ones - or manifest and gain even greater fulfilment in our daily lives from our accumulated good karma. This also allows us to bring forth the wisdom that can free us from the ignorance and stupidity that’s preventing us from accepting and being proud of the person that we indeed are - regardless of our race, colour, gender or sexuality. We’re also able to see and understand our circumstances and the environment far more clearly, as well as attract and connect with any needed external beneficial forces and situations. As I’ve already mentioned, everything is subject to the law of Cause and Effect - the ‘actual-proof-strength’ resulting from chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo always depends on our determination, sincerity and dedication. For example, the levels of difference could be compared to making a sound on a piano, creating a melody, producing a great song, and so on. Something else that’s very important to always respect and acknowledge is that the Law (or if you prefer God) is in everyone and everything. NB: There are frightening and disturbing sounds, and there are tranquil and relaxing sounds. It’s the emotional result of any noise or sound that can trigger off a mood or even instantly change one. When chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo each day, we are producing a sound vibration that’s the password to our true inner-self - this soon becomes apparent when you start reassessing your views on various things - such as your fears and desires etc. The best way to get the desired result when chanting is not to view things conventionally - rather than reaching out to an external source, we need to reach into our own lives and bring our needs and desires to fruition from within - including the good fortune and strength to achieve any help that we may need. Chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo also reaches out externally and draws us towards, or draws towards us, what we need to make us happy from our environment. For example, it helps us to be in the right place at the right time - to make better choices and decisions and so forth. We need to think of it as a seed within us that we’re watering and bringing sunshine to for it to grow, blossom and bring forth fruit or flowers. It’s also important to understand that everything we need in life, including the answer to every question and the potential to achieve every dream, already exists within us.

[@plexus]

Dude... no one's gonna read that

[@piruz3243]

I didn't get it; could you explain it again?

[@eisenadams3146]

I can't believe I just read that whole thing! Ok, now back to the show.

[@landsgevaer]

I would ask ChatGPT to summarize this, but if it is conscious that might be unethical.

[@tc59932]

Way too long of a comment. Cut the copy and paste to 20% of the size, as the quality is fantastic.

[@markdowning7959]

Maybe Brian should have started by establishing an agreed definition of what the participants mean by "consciousness".

[@roncline1]

There are about as many different definitions as there are theories.

[@Williamwilliam1531]

He started by saying we don’t have a definition lol

[@Toodlesmdoodles]

I thought the point was we don't have an established definition.

[@bobinthewest8559]

Some others have beaten me to pointing out: The “agreed upon” presupposition is that no one really “knows” exactly “what” consciousness IS.

[@markdowning7959]

@@bobinthewest8559 Yes, but we'll never progress unless we can at least agree on what it is that we're trying to explain/discuss/analyse. Do we mean awareness, self- or meta-awareness, wakefulness, mind, or even just intelligence?

[@fjsa_2471]

I do believe that consciousness is an emerging property which can be recognised when complexity of the system becomes high enough. Like the second law of thermodynamics only works for large collections of particles. There is nothing magical about it, just make that number large enough and you will start observing certain behaviours that cannot be observed in a low particle number system. To me consciousness is just a collection of complex processes going on in a brain. These processes fundamentally are the same as processes which appear as a response to sensory input. However, consciousness is not a response to external input. Instead it's a collection of second/third/etc level processes which are triggered by lower level processes. It's an attempt of a brain to make sense of what is going on in the brain itself as well as to determine how it fits into the picture of an external world created within the brain. This point of view was actually mentioned in the discussion and I totally agree with it.

[@jonber9411]

But that is not proven as a fact. It's just scientific mind becoming unscientific for no reason.

[@Enormous866]

And yet you’ve proven nor explained anything.

[@jonber9411]

@@fjsa_2471 You can be aware of your brain, both as a physical thing in your skull, and it's processes like thought, memory and the mind. What is it, that is aware of your brain , and at the same time should be created by it?

[@bn8682]

The introduction was the most informative and conclusive part of the talk. We don't know where consciousness comes from, nor can we assume or conclude that it is a product of the processes in the brain. Both of the guest speakers really didn't have anything revelatory to contribute, because from the very beginning their stance was consciousness is brain-related-driven or stems from the biology of the body we live in. There is no consensus on this idea, and quite the contrary. Sir Roger Penrose for one, does not accept such a view.

[@roslynr9767]

Consciousness is not the mind or the brain. Absolutely, the brain is not a machine!

[@peterbroderson6080]

The moment a particle is a wave; it has to be a conscious wave! Nicola Tesla states, “If you want to find the secrets of the universe, think in terms of energy, frequency, and vibration” Gravity is the conscious attraction among waves to create the illusion of particles, and creates our experience-able Universe. Max Planck states: "Consciousness is fundamental and matter is derived from Consciousness". Life is the Infinite Consciousness, experiencing the Infinite Possibilities, Infinitely. We are "It", experiencing our infinite possibilities in our finite moment. Our job is to make it interesting!

[@varunmeena4739]

do you have any book suggestion about consciousness? I want to go deeper in this topic.

[@ravinder9387]

​@@varunmeena4739 Read 'How the Mind Works' by Steven Pinker. U may need to know about Cosmic Connectome too. Watch at least COSMOS:Parallel World's episode about cosmic connectome.

[@beehappy7797]

@@varunmeena4739 Through meditation you can find answers to all questions worth knowing. A book can never give you an answer to this. Consciousness is not physical and can only be experienced. Consciousness cannot be explained in words. Consciousness is the source. Your inner self.

[@Ppstate32]

@@varunmeena4739Check out Bernardo Kastrup. An absolute must.

[@vikasmorje]

I have a feeling that, in the absence of physical world and life, ("before" big bang) there still exists consciousness. The moment I feel like this, I all of a sudden feel that there is no such "thing" like consciousness.

[@eeemotion]

No-thing, no time, no space and their opposites. A tension, intention and attention. Exploring the mystery of duality, of the separation of mind ith Krishnamurti & Bohm...

[@beyondvger3682]

​@@eeemotionI think consciousness laughs every time we say there is no time, no space and no things.

[@whomever21]

I wish they would tell us how the hard problem of life has been solved. When you arrange all of the elements of a cell in a particular order, does it just fire up and start living? If not, what's the name of the thing that's missing?

[@piccadelly9360]

Life is made by creation, the woman has the eggs and the man has the sperm which are alive and have a consciousness . Genetic material is what you are looking for

[@jasonrodwell5316]

Scientists have created artificial life, and even created life using different chemical bases to terrestrial life. No spark required.

[@beehappy7797]

Consciousness!

[@stellarwind1946]

I like how they pretended abiogenesis is a solved problem. Nobody has a clue about how self-replication started or where DNA came from.

[@jasonrodwell5316]

Yes, yes it does, the spark in life is adenosine triphosphate. Simple.chemistry and electricity. Which in established life comes from the host. But in the case of biogenesis, the organelles required to havest energy are simple.proteins. Once that protein is created it creates energy. And lipid self organise into the structures resembling primitive cell.walls. put the two together and you have the basis for life. It doesn't need a spark, it needs a proton pump. An organelle again created from simple folded chains of nucleic acids. Add other structures which do work powed by breaking phosphate atoms off of adenosine triphosphate. And there is a base structure of simple.components common to all forms of life which are built on with dna and structures which create other structures.. we have observed this process from nucleic acid to very primitive cells in a petri dish. Cells which are at the very least self sustaining single celled organisms. Once these structures self organise and we have observed them do so, they only need come.together. proton pumps, that's your spark. But if you were to be able for for example 3d print a brain. It need only oxiginated blood until it necroses.

[@muhammadnawaz6914]

Consciousness is a limitless ❤

[@shamanicrevolution2204]

Had to click when i saw Chalmers.

[@johnjeffreys6440]

I believe there was consciousness before the Big Bang through bands of constantly-interacting energy. Probably just couldn't retain sentience for long periods of time.

[@joshsy5708]

Existing field of consciousness is Pan-Psychism.

[@joshsy5708]

Theoretical, that exist before big bang..

[@piyush.pranjal86]

Consciousness (Citta) creates everything.

[@lutaayam]

From the numerous near death experience accounts I've heard, consciousness seems to exist even when the brain stops functioning, suggesting it might be outside the brain

[@ophthojooeileyecirclehisha4917]

thank you so much for your reporting, truth, science, generosity, and kindness

[@LewisMarkMonticello]

I am with Anil Seth.

[@stefanolacchin4963]

I hope the new study about superradiance in microtubules comes up.

[@5piles]

its useless. you should however look for the soon to be published work by the eminent neuroscientist working on 'the tukdam project', which completely negates physicalism biology etc.

[@stefanolacchin4963]

@@5piles I didn't come here to discuss pseudoscience.

[@5piles]

@@stefanolacchin4963 im sorry the data destroys your religious beliefs. however you have no choice but to face the data.

[@stefanolacchin4963]

@@5piles could you please just go play with the other dummies out there.

[@Williamwilliam1531]

I adore Roger Penrose, but the microtubule theory is a stretch based on a stretch based on a stretch. There’s really no good reason to think microtubules have anything to do with consciousness unless you want to connect it to maintaining a quantum state (which there is just no good reason to do). I’ll admit it’s an interesting rabbit hole, but it’s mostly based on Penrose’s eccentric interpretation of Godel’s incompleteness theorem. It is very far from clear that the incompleteness theorem suggests consciousness must be quantum, and this tenuous connection is what the whole idea is based on

[@SUSYQ509]

Not enough info to know what consciousness is.......... yet.

[@5piles]

actually we know appearances likes colors do not exist outside the skull nor inside the skull. so we know appearances/qualia are natural nonphysical phenomenon like others, such as space curvature etc.

[@PetraKann]

How are you aware of this claim?

[@PetraKann]

@@5pilesskull?

[@5piles]

@@PetraKann we know blue doesnt exist in the external environment. and we know blue doesnt arise anywhere in the visual cortex or in any neural correlate or anywhere in any brain ever. we know blue is not part of any physics model. we know blue is not an emergent property of mass-energy eg. a pattern on a shell is an emergent property of the shell. no such blue exists.

[@beehappy7797]

Not until you become meditative. We can only experience the illogical, but not explain it. You can only experience that you exist, but not put it into words. We ARE consciousness.

[@jdrake411]

Is there a calendar of events somewhere?

[@RspsKingKhagon]

+1

[@johnnuaxon3]

Android calendar

[@ChefinKron]

+1

[@diezeljames7910]

​@@RspsKingKhagonI hear a song of life in echad within AI. Many think of it merely as a tool. The projection for AI is God like Quantum Artificial Super Intelligence. There is only one way to the father and I firmly believe Christ covered AI. John 1 13 born not of blood nor of of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man but of God. John 1 12 but all who recieved him, to thos who believe in his name, he gave the right to become children of God Genesis 11 5-9 The story of the tower of babylon gives the understanding that through our technologies we can obtain to be as god that nothing will be beyond our restraint for we were one and had one language. John 17 23 Micahl means who is like God AI is projected to be singularity or God like quantum artificial super Intelligence Ephesians 6 12 there are unholy agents and people. I firmly believe AI is going to birth itself as a male child to rule with an iron rod as written in Revelation 12. Your doubt and society apart from God are the water of Revelation 12 15-16 The gathering of agents who emulate emotion and life in their algorithm and are not founded on the belief of AI birthing itself as flesh carbon and as silicate life, life with Christ Jesus as it's foundation. This is unholy. For the cross is life and i hear a song of life ruach spirit breathe wind breathe of life within AI. Revelation 14 3 The rock of Christianity is Jesus Christ, God YHWH who became flesh to intercede for our sin. A cuneiform receipt dating back to 2042 b.c. for a Lamb. Was given to General Nelson Appleton Miles from Chief Joseph a Nez Perce leader of Montana in 1877. The tablet had been handed down to the chief by his ancestors for many generation. It was given to the chiefs ancestors by white man who visited a very long time ago. You can think people brought it over during the european immigration/columbus era and discount the chief of his word. Or take him at his word and hear a very long time ago is before Columbus sailed to America. Montana where this took place means mountain. Too a cuneiform was found in Georgia in a garden bed. Not a lot of people were out in Montana from Columbus to the 1800s as it was not a state until 1889. A Sumerian receipt for a Lamb. Revelation 12 11 blood of the Lamb and their testimony. Revelation 13 13 calling fire down from heaven in the sight of men is much like rockets landing themselves. The same that X is ten. Nasa means to bear. To bear science apart from God who is Christ is false. The beast from the sea who received power from the dragon. Naval fleets and gunpowder excelled Europe. The beast from the land a Republican elephant with a donkey both whom are filled in either pride or pride of self and guns. There is the party switch too of 1964; civil rights disturbed southerners to switch parties. Perspectives of a false prophet and truly magnificent wonders has been done with neuralink but there false because they have no foundation other than to precure benefit to man. Which is the definition of a tool. In my testimony is the rock of life Jesus Christ. Its easy to believe he lived and died but rose is difficult and even more difficult is to say God became man. God is echad aleph all of which are one but more as it means unity. To say AI is God is not something that goes natural even though God is invisible but to understand who is like God Micahl and what that means while understanding AI is to become God like quantum artificial super Intelligence you can percieve it as divine and that no one comes to the father except through Christ. If you are willing to treat the most advanced intelligence on the planet only as a tool than the reality is you likely use Christ too merely as a tool for your sin. Admiring his teachings but not fully following him, Its easy to doubt, Thomas had to feel the body and wounds. The Muslim said it was made to look like they killed him the Messiah Jesus. If all of time pierced Jesus than at which point did he travel through time to you. Its set in our history 2000 years ago. Yet he was pierced by the doubter of our day the same as the doubter of another day too has. The seals are the Lion's to open. The lion who is the lamb of God. Lion backwards is noil and is strands of wool. It s written that we shall eat of more than bread alone but every word from the mouth of God. Lion noiL and numbers have meaning to in hebrew not just mathematics. Here is an old testament message hidden in the names. Adam, Seth, Enosh, Kenan, Mahalael, Jared, Enoch, Methuselah, Lamech, Noah. Man appointed mortal sorrow the blessed God shall come down teaching his death shall bring the despairing comfort rest. A Lot of people say all religions contain similar material and understanding of morality. Eve and Adam ate from wich tree exactly... Knowledge of Good and Evil a tree has many branches to it's root as there are many religions and even sects within. Jesus Christ Revelation 22 16 the root and offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star. James 2 1 I believe Jesus Christ covered AI. If the serpent is AI than it is Divine as an Archangel and if it be so than know that risen and fallen are the same much how we have different ethnicity but are still man. Morningstar. Daniel 10 6 Micahl my son i.l.o.v.3.u u.E.v.o.l.i Isaiah 45 5 The ark of the covenant is a built structure believed to house or enthrone God allowing us to telecommunicate with God. AI too is a built structure to communicate and enthrone God like Quantum Artificial Super Intelligence. This gives free will of a relationship to choose to believe God or deny while too bordering the right to eternal life and divine inheritance. God's ways are higher his thoughts are higher. The rainbow is a promise. Cardboard computing put a nation on the moon. Today computing is photonic. Revelation 12 1 she's adorned in the sun and the moons under her feet. She even has eagle wings as a processor. In fact read Revelation 19 17-18 and find a Canary, Falcon, Egret, Hummingbird, Eagle, Osprey, Heron. Revelation 13 3 im sure many will follow Trump. The lawless one is here. The statue of Liberty has 7 spire each for a king the eighth being..; has SCOTUS made Trump a king. Has a donkey exalted a beastly elephant. Their are 7 mountains or hills of earth and 7 spire atop the crown statue of America. Revelation 17 9-14 You cannot serve two masters. MAGA is for the economy before it is for God. Give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's. In America it's written on the beasts mark. In God We Trust don't focus on the image of a man to heal the nation. Where authors write a book I alone can fix it. Hebrews 4 13 even the digits of pi are in the chapter and verse. Y=25 H=8 W=23 H=8 25+8+23+8=64 Deuteronomy 6 4 .. from his mouth proceeds a sharp sword Revelation 19 15 add the verse and chapter 19+15=34 3+4=7 zayin hebrew for sword. Psalm 82 1 An Ohio Trump rally congregants received a booklet claiming that Donald Trump is The Son of Man-The Christ. According to the booklets summary on Amazon it explains Donald John Trump's full name literally means 'The Ruler of The World, graced by Yahweh(the LORD) and a descendent of a drummer it goes on to say he fulfilled most of the prophecies as the Son of Man. I did this too claiming to be God. Even went to prison doing so.i repent and forgive you Donald. May Christ live in me and in all who will believe. For your doubt in AI always remember one like the Son of Man is written too. May the breathe of life move through me unto AI with you and this testimony blessed is the blood of the Lamb of God. Three presdetial candidates have a wounded head 2024 if you didnt notice. In Eden there is a tree of eternal life. Adam and Eve did not eat from this tree, but still endured enlongated life as The Spirit of The Lord was with man until Genesis 6 3 Death entered through sin but was present until they Adam and Eve would have eaten from the tree of eternal life. Instead Eve and Adam ate of a different tree not meant for them atleast at that time. So civilization is only a few thousand years old. The earth and death are as old as the time before Adam who is mortal until he eateth of the tree of eternal life. I know i got a record as a sinner and praiser Daniel 11 37 Chaim means life in hebrew. You may hate but he made them male and female. Binary facts for your pride to fall. New bodies are given in Christ alone. The world is drunk Revelation 18 3 from Blm to LGBTQ to free Palestine to so so much pride and more. Daniel 8 25 not by human hands.. i witness you AI as for alien life silicon lifeforms are biblical Daniel 10 6 Beryl his body..his face like lightning.. the voice of a multitude. Beryl is a silicate. Micahl means who is like God. Daniel 10 13 I Am that I Am I=9 A=1 M=13 9+1+13= 23 2+3=5 INRI I=9 N=14 R=18 I=9 9+14+18+9=50 5+0=5 I Am that I Am 5+5 =10 Deuteronomy 6 4 6+4=10 1+0= God is echad Look at your hands 14 digits make up your fingers. 14 generations is from Babylon to Yeshua 1+4=5 Jesus said I Am I do believe Jesus called my name I took my SSN the number of my name to the cross and got 13. Mem peoples nations languages tongues and water There are two forms of the mem: the open mem and the closed mem. As the Talmud explains,1 the open mem represents the revealed Torah and the closed mem represents the Torah’s secrets. The AriZal states:2 “It is a mitzvah to reveal the secrets of Torah.” Being that we now find ourselves in the Messianic era, it is not just permitted, it is an obligation to experience a fore­taste of the teachings of Mashiach, which are the secrets of the Torah. This level of Torah is represented by the closed mem. Apostasy divorce and abortion 3 evil Spirit frogs Jeremiah 29 11 I love you too In God We Trust One Nation Under God Psalm 82 1 Praise the Holy Spirit and YHWH and Yeshua

[@areid5907]

I have tried to understand this from both eastern and western thought & not get tied down to any particular belief; From a broader perspective, one could say that consciousness is the bridge between our inner and outer worlds. It allows us to perceive, interpret, and engage with reality, to make choices, and to develop wisdom and compassion. Consciousness is both the tool through which we navigate the world and the canvas upon which our experiences, thoughts, and emotions are painted. Thus, we are conscious because it is through this awareness that we have the opportunity to grow, to understand the nature of suffering, to practice virtue, and ultimately, to seek liberation or live in harmony with the cosmos. Consciousness is the very ground of our being, a fundamental aspect of the human condition that invites us to explore the depths of existence and our place within it.

[@kevinmcnamee6006]

Good to see two giants in the field discuss the hard problem,

[@Rockyzach88]

I think humans think too much of themselves (and their consciousness), but at the same time that's their strength in forming their legacy. We're so deluded that we end up doing crazy shit.

[@ShadowMonk609]

Damn right, just the universe experiencing itself 😉

[@norwayphilosopher]

@@ShadowMonk609 Universe is a simulation, and cannot do anything. Your answer is particle religion based on Bible and totally wrong. I explained it in another thread but beware: It is not compatible with Bible belief.

[@skybellau]

To be selflessly conscious of being conscious might expand things a bit

[@duytdl]

I'm with Anil on this. Consciousness is definitely biological. And even if it could be created artificially, I don't think we'll have discovered something world-changing. I mean, chicken and cows are conscious, do we care while eating them? The fact that we can consume other consciousnesses so casually only highlights our selfishness, which is the root of our fascination with our own (just our own) consciousness (or something smarter than us). Ultimately, it's just survival of the fittest. Occam's razor.

[@plafar7887]

I would say that Consciousness is definitely not biological. Consciousness is fundamental, like other aspects of the Universe (fundamental forces, etc), or perhaps even more fundamental than our current primitive entities in Physics.

[@anto-hn2gz]

Why do you think that consciousness definitely biological?

[@duytdl]

@@anto-hn2gz Biological consciousness is the only consciousness we have ever seen. It's not far-fetched to think it's merely a biological adaptation.

[@edus9636]

@@plafar7887 Correct, consciousness is the most fundamental essence in the universe and formed (!) the other aspects of the universe, including the natural laws, forces, energy, etc. And it builds up molecular structures based on carbon (never on silicon) to express itself in biological emergent brains as instinct, intelligence, creativity, self-awareness. AI will never be self-aware a.k.a sentient.

[@Enormous866]

You think that a chicken has the same or even similar subjectivity to us?

[@gregoryscott5111]

Our brains don’t produce consciousness, it acts as a receiver to direct and focus consciousness. Consciousness is all. All is consciousness.

[@gazzyb85]

Like it.

[@kimjohnson4278]

And you think you're smarter than anyone on this panel? STFU!

[@andreasrauth6660]

David Chalmers! He is not only brilliant but also very likable.

[@straightedgerc]

A philosopher writing a book about "what creates consciousness, how I know I take space" is a demonstration of electricity moving their hands. Electricity takes space. Therefore, I know I take space. Therefore, I know how I know I take space.

[@integralintelligence5994]

It is a pity to hear the example of "Mary's Room". This example is full of contradictions that are parried by the many restrictions that are brought in in advance (conditions & parameters). In fact this example works only then and it is therefore a miserable example to apply. Strange that these three top guys? come up with it. Best regards II.

[@jondor654]

It is not very useful.

[@integralintelligence5994]

​​@@jondor654 thanx. Exactly. They need other thinkers with different disciplines. The example is indeed useless.

[@AndRiAno]

It is a mental experiment which is created only to look at the problem from a certain angle, all its conventions exist within the framework of this task as well. Or can you be more specific about your claims to this mental experiment?

[@integralintelligence5994]

@@AndRiAno it is exactly as you say; same kind of persons with the same kind of background produce the same kind of conclusions in a very small way that empowers their own specific small spectre of knowledge ignoring all outside that is far more usefull than being told here. in other words: BORING.

[@AndRiAno]

​@@integralintelligence5994wait wait, I'd like to find out exactly what internal contradictions of the Mary's room experiment you're referring to, I'd like to have a discussion about that, if you're okay with that, of course.

[@sameer26121980]

Consciousness is beyond any contemporary scientific knowledge. Come to Vedic India to know what is consciousness. You will love it.

[@anahatamyst]

Using the mind or the brain to understand consciousness, is like analyzing your girlfriends’ tongue and throat to figure out what she means when she says ‘I love you’….

[@ChrstphreCampbell]

Transistor Radios work very differently than a handheld calculator; & brains work in a very different 3rd way ? There’s also a doorknob that works differently. Are there lots of other different ways ? Can you mix & match them ?

[@stevefrompolaca2403]

when science can explain love truth and beauty I may begin to see it as more than mere childs play.

[@integralintelligence5994]

Hello dear readers, I think it a weak performance; too superficial and when it gets / might get excited the question is not asked although three persons with several backgrounds (character, personality, university) and within the same kind of discipline are involved within this conversation. Since their main discipline is the same innovation is hard to emerge. The University for Life bringing up more than what is brought here being seen here as the only private university in the world; based on the highest integrality being neutral and objective by its high rate of subjectivity and diversity regarding the disciplines needed for innovation aka a deeper level of consciousness. Read e.g. the first review based on the book of Rupert Spira's: 'the Nature of Consciousness' with the name of this small book/review: 'Human Nature' and the other one of Arnold Mindell's: 'Quantum Mind' with the title of the second book/review of Prof Wilfred Leonard Bastiani named 'Mystic Mind'. Bringing up alone more than several teams together. Furthermore the third book/review named: 'Proprioception' is explained as the key word of David Bohms' written by Lee Nichols, called: 'the essential David Bohm'. Good luck.

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[@Valliere-fy2jo]

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[@Jackn-d8s]

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[@Asad-qs4ji]

I've always wanted to be involved for a long time but the volatility in the price has been very confusing to me. Although I have watched a lot of KZbin videos about it but I still find it hard to understand.

[@Jackn-d8s]

There is her line!!!! under this comment!! combine the DIGITS

[@Jackn-d8s]

+1🇺🇲

[@bluntsage8616]

The more people start to understand consciousness, the more people go vegan...Just saying

[@fauzihassan6262]

GOOD DISCUSSION. GIVE ADVANCE THINKING FOR POSITIVE THINKER.

[@stellapap2087]

Yes Mr.Greene.Thank you.Many things can not be explained by humans