Are Realistic Prop Weapons RUINING Furry Cons?

[@mistycrom]

At conventions here, there's a thing called 'peace-binding' where any prop weapons need to be checked by security, and anything that could be dangerous either isn't allowed, or is a fixed in the holster or sheath or whatever by a brightly coloured zip-tie and if it's broken, you're out of the con. They don't play around.

[@eavids128]

I love this system! Have seen it at cons before, it always makes me feel a lot safer. iirc Furthemore has a similar system.

[@whoahanant]

I've been to multiple types of cons and festivals in the US and they all have had the orange tipped guns, staff checks, no weapon swapping, no swinging them around, ect. Some even go far enough to mark real/faux blades (swords, knives and axes) because mass stabbings are also just as real as mass shootings. The furry cons I've attended here haven't had all these same protocols though for some reason idk...

[@sarrakitty]

I feel like this is the best solution. Looking outside of just furry cons as well, there are plenty of characters where it makes sense for them to be carrying a weapon as a part of the cosplay. Some of those are obviously sci-fi or cartoony in a way that you wouldn't mistake it for a real weapon, but even then, might as well have them checked for safety. That way you don't have to compromise having them and the con is a safer place.

[@Threetails]

As someone whose fursuit often carries a blunt sword, I approve.

[@SpoopySquid]

Gee i wonder why waving around realistic weapons in a country where public mass shootings are a a very real risk might upset some people

[@AshCoyote]

IKR

[@kilerkane]

I'll say it before and I'll say it again; That is a LIE manufactured by the MSM (which consist of Fox News, btw.) to garner clicks and attention, it's as much as real risk as is going outside and getting mugged, or getting hit by lighting, or actually being shot; It is a fraction of a fraction. The FBI categorizes Mass Shootings as incidents where two or more people are shot and injured, not even killed. These are things that happen mostly in inner cities via gang violence or disagreements between two groups. Despite all the Quote unquote *mass shootings* happening, the annual, deaths attributed to firearms is a fraction of the annual gun incidents, which is half a million (500K) and that fraction I mentioned is 20K. (and the majority of those are Self-deletions) You are more likely to fall to your death then you are to be shot, and let me tell ya what you'll absolutely experience every Minute of every day. (Hint: It starts with a G and ends with ravity).

[@00Skyfox]

Not just a risk. They happen on a daily basis to varying degrees of casualties. It's just the ones that happen in schools or involve lots of victims that seem to make the national news anymore.

[@arvurebantra7639]

I don't mind the prop weapons that much, what I have problem with is when these people wave them around as a joke, and expect everyone else to be aware of the fact that it's just a joke. Sorry pal, but if I see you on a balcony pointing something that looks like a gun at me, I am going to assume the worst. I am not in on your joke, I don't know you.

[@splatter_proto]

Yeah... he's pantomiming a mass shooting with a realistic prop gun in Georgia, a state with permitless carry. That seems like a good way to catch a bullet from somebody who fancies themselves as a "good guy with a gun" 😬

[@graveyardshift2100]

Yeah and all it would have taken for this to go bad is for someone to have snuck in a real gun, and assumed he was a shooter. This originally happened in a southern state, so it's not even that hard to see it happening.

[@arvurebantra7639]

@@graveyardshift2100 I barely even care if it is a real gun. You just don't point stuff at people who aren't in on your little "joke".

[@piku5637]

Lots of anti furries are literal Nazis, never assume it’s “just a joke”. Be vigilant.

[@graveyardshift2100]

Gun safety 101 Treat ALL guns as if they are loaded, functional, and real.

[@fireisnotreal]

so what about a nerf gun like the nerf p90

[@graveyardshift2100]

@@fireisnotreal we aren't talking about a nerf gun. Don't be the guy that tries to pull a gotcha argument here. But to be clear, all means ALL. Especially in a crowded space where not everyone is clear about what is happening.

[@Frost_Husky]

Like i get using them for cosplay but the argument of it being a "joke" seems like a way to dodge the real problem. Whats the joke? That you thought i was gonna shoot you, that its funny mimicing the act of aiming a gun at someone? Whats supposed to be the punchline?

[@AshCoyote]

right thats the issue I have with that particular incident as well

[@arvurebantra7639]

If I'm not in on the joke, is it a joke? Because I'm not in on that "joke". I don't get it.

[@IIZPII]

​@AshCoyote listen ibal. You guys having been wah wah wah for something like this for years now. I could a nerf gun and you guys say t*rrorist

[@arvurebantra7639]

@@IIZPII You can't even basic grammar, let alone a nerf gun.

[@CrissaKentavr]

As someone whose father was wrongly shot and killed... this hits close. It's about consent. When there were fewer of us, it was also easier to know who was in the joke. Now, it's just unrealistic to have them outside specific closed off spaces where those going in can be aware and consenting.

[@guzma5524]

I remember on a podcast Finn the panther brought up a situation at a convention or furmeet where someone was cosplaying as a siege character and because of all the tactical gear it made him and many others around very upset. I don't think a lot of people online understand how important these spaces are for us. even if no one at the convention said anything someone at the convention could of saw the prop and gotten really worried. I sure would have if I saw a realistic looking weapon.

[@AshCoyote]

I know I would of had a bad reaction to seeing it as someone who struggles with PTSD around firearms.

[@ducky2379]

Especially since many of the "I hunt furries" crowd is into LARPing as military soldiers. Like I wouldn't be able to tell, are you a fellow cosplayer, or are you trying to scare me and make me feel threatened?

[@VestedUTuber]

One thing that a lot of "mostly harmless" shooting sports have to differentiate their weapons from real firearms is the orange tip law. The orange tip is meant to designate an airsoft rifle, nerf gun or lazer tag blaster as not a firearm, and this also applies to weapon props. The only thing it doesn't apply to is anything that uses a gas propellent such as paintball markers and pellet guns. In fact, in the US at least, cosplayers who are carrying realistic gun props without a bright neon orange tip are technically violating federal law. So, at least in the US, the solution is to, you know, ensure guests are complying with federal law. Don't allow anyone to bring a realistic gun prop into the convention space in unless it has the orange tip, and do an inspection to ensure that the prop is either not functional at all or that its firing mechanism is fully mechanically disabled (springs removed for Nerf and Airsoft guns being used as props).

[@AshCoyote]

The lack of visible markings is really the major concern that I have. It is a situation that could easily escalate for folks who can't tell whats going on. I have seen how anime cons handle it and think that is a viable alternative in certain circumstances.

[@sarrakitty]

@@AshCoyote I think the orange tip really should be required, and have someone on security check it just to make sure.

[@arvurebantra7639]

@@AshCoyote Honestly, I disagree with the use of the orange tip. What happens if someone paints an orange tip on to a real gun? The problem is that these idiots wave them around, point them at random people, and expect everyone to be OK with that. I don't care if there's an orange tip on it or not, someone points a gun at me, I am going to assume the worst if I don't know them.

[@rexcanis6110]

@@VestedUTuber That doesn’t work in con spaces. Orange tips can be covered with paint, marker, or tape once coming through a checkpoint. Real weapons can have an orange tip painted on them A holstered pistol likely won’t show the orange tip so it can’t be easily identified as a prop.

[@VestedUTuber]

@@rexcanis6110 Which is why I recommended having inspections on entry. It's obvious you only read the first paragraph of my comment. And if someone's walking around with a realistic firearm prop without the orange tip, you boot them. They make a stink about it, you call the police.

[@Yargestein68]

Realistic prop weapons are simply illegal in Germany (§42a Waffengesetz). You are not allowed to wear or even carry them in public. Especially not in conventions. So Bomb Voyage would be facing a felony case over here.

[@AshCoyote]

Like you can't even own them in Germany?

[@Yargestein68]

@@AshCoyote You may own it. You can hang it to your wall. You may transport it in a closed container. You may use it for a film or theater. Even for a cosplay event if it would be closed to public and everyone is aware that prop weapons will be used. But you will be prosecuted if you carry it in public.

[@IIZPII]

​@@Yargestein68 Germany is ass

[@youkofoxy]

@@AshCoyote As side note, and a bit out of the blue. Since is extremely hard to classify and identify some types of threats to safety of con goes, I would recommend avoiding talking about them in open public spaces. Some attacks vectors and how to deal with them is best left to behind closed doors.

[@SashaTheDog]

@@AshCoyote You can own them but keep them out of sight and if you carry them publically mark them with orange tips or even more as prop guns while informing law enforcement. And most Cons do not allow weapons with working triggers, mechanisms, scopes, lasers etc.

[@111cars102]

Im from a military town and i understand ptsd very well. Its 100% not a laughing matter. These props could very easyly cause someone to snap. Like most people that are not around veterns dont understand how dangerious that could be. People could easyly get brought back into the mindset that they are back in a war zone. Their is nothing good that can come of it. worce we would see a cosplayer being attacked. Ptsd is nothing to joke about and you can not predict what would happen if it gets triggered. Thank you for bringing this topic up Ash it really does need to be taken seriously.

[@eavids128]

Ok unrelated to all the actual video points I just wanna say, Bomb Voyage doesn't have a gun, he uses bombs that's kind of the whole point, him also having a gun makes no sense he has bombs.

[@AshCoyote]

I have mentioned that to folks as well. Its kind of absurd

[@Caffine_Kitsune]

@@AshCoyote Thats true now that i think about it, Bomb Voyage with an M4 is cursed as hell

[@aislingheld5816]

i think i remember somthn about the bomb voyage cosplayer borrowing the prop gun from another cosplayer

[@astarianaira6968]

The cosplayer claimed FWA staff had cleared the weapon and if true, that's a huge failure on their part to adhere to con policy. I realize it can be tough with a staff of volunteers but weapon policies are put in place for a reason. While he and others feel the backlash is way out of proportion, I don't think it is. A random cosplayer of a non-furry character showing up at FWA and pointing a realistic weapon at people immediately raises red flags, especially after the chlorine gas at MFF. In a country that keeps touting the "good guy with a gun" mentality, he's lucky he wasn't shot or at the very least tackled for his actions.

[@AshCoyote]

I find it interesting that he is cosplaying a character that never had a gun in the first place. I heard a similar story that folks at the con cleared the weapon and agree that it was a huge oversight if that was true.

[@astarianaira6968]

@@AshCoyote I thought the same thing. Inappropriateness aside, it was a bad cosplay! Show up with some comically large money bags or rig some LEDs into the little bomb things on your bandolier!

[@dogguy8603]

​@@astarianaira6968i dont think we should police how others cosplay, especially as people who dress in neon colored dogs

[@mattwolf7698]

It would be a mess if something like this happened at a furry convention. It could possibly cause a crush from people trying to escape and cause people to get trampled from a panic. And even if that doesn't happen people's expensive fursuits could still get damaged from such an event.

[@ultraultramegadude]

Yeah, on the enforcement thing, any anime con I've gone to if you're bringing a prop weapon (or even things like flag poles) you have to go take it to the staff at registration and get a peacebond tag for it after they inspect it. Never seen it at a furcon though, but probably the best way to make sure the rules are being followed. No neon tag on your prop and you're screwing around? Enjoy your ban

[@AshCoyote]

I have seen how they handle it at anime cons and do think that is one potential avenue to explore as the community grow.

[@Pexil_Effex]

​@@AshCoyote yeah, that's probably the best option all things considered. Especially since I can see this sort of thing being worked into furry outfit designs at some point. Tactical gear on fursuits would look really cool

[@Forysan]

I was going to come here to say this. Every single anime convention I staff are very strict with weapon policies and are heavily guarded with law enforcement.

[@merrowley]

@Forysan never seen cops at the ones i go to but they do have either hired or volunteer security

[@Fenrir_Baphomet]

I am a cosplayer I make an umbrella cosplay and I use a replica but I would never have thought of using a gas weapon

[@Threetails]

Bomb Voyage wasn't even on theme! The character was never shown with a rifle! There's absolutely no reason apart from causing panic. What an asshole.

[@TheAwareWolfSolis]

Fam, we've been talking about this for ever on the podcast and im glad you're taking a swing at it! Personally, cons are not for 2A cosplay and in our current social political environment, its uncomfy and shouldn't be allowed. Like... maybe nerf guns. But none of these realistic looking tac gear and weapons.

[@AshCoyote]

Yeah its sort of a read the room situation. The guy was obviously trolling.

[@dogguy8603]

Then you might consider not going to conventions if it makes you uncomfortable to see people cosplaying, then you probably shouldn't go to cons

[@TheAwareWolfSolis]

@@dogguy8603 Or maybe we can read the room and acknowledge the social poltlitical climate we live in and know that its just not appropriate for Furry Cons :)

[@dogguy8603]

@TheAwareWolfSolis it seems to be fine for evey other con, it seems this is drama for drama sake, and he had been at other cons with no issues, none, the only people complaining seem to be people who saw a clip on Twitter, and not attendees

[@Mailylion]

Thank you for speaking up about this issue. I wholeheartedly agree. People way too often aren't considerate about others around them when it comes to realistic weapon props. Even at anime conventions where military cosplayers are getting a more common sight, I must admit, I sometimes feel anxious around them, since at least for me, they look threatening in a way (especially if they are looking exactly like the real deal).

[@skanpandion7181]

Keep preaching Ash! You're helping the fandom one video at a time.

[@AshCoyote]

Thank you

[@IorekByrnison086]

At the cons ive been attending, I have seen checkers check the prop to make sure not only that it is not real, but also non firing as well. And projectile weapons like BB, airsoft, nerf, etc. are banned from being checked in. Real looking ones (even with the orange tip as in guns) are also banned. I felt safe enough at the cons I go to. FWA 2023 I had a blast. But FWA 2024 I felt uneasy after seein this bomb voyage character wave and aimed a realistic looking firearm at the crowd. I think that characters like this should not be even allowed to attend any cons. Its just the feeling of being (well, you know) unalived. You made great points in the awesome video. Love it all the way, Ash. Keep up the awesome job.

[@AshCoyote]

Since you were there at the con, how did that moment effect others around you? and thank you!

[@IorekByrnison086]

@@AshCoyote There were some who felt very uneasy and just plain left. But those who stayed just cheered on and continued on like there were nothing. The prop itself looked an M4 with a grenade launcher on the underside of it. Yeah, I know my weapons cause I was AirForce. That's what I observed there. Hope this helps. And keep up the awesome job.

[@Archer1182]

Ok so first off I am 100% 2A. Gun enthusiast gun collector and a concealed carrier. And I am absolutely not ok with the Bomb Voyage guy, his actions have no place in a con space whatsoever. I can’t even believe any con would allow him to act like that. If I was at a con and this was happening I think I would have to pack up and leave. Now I have seen cons that had a lot of people carrying prop weapons especially guns but most kept them slung or at low ready not waving them around like that.

[@XydexxUnicorn]

Well said, Ash! Thank you for raising the issue. I hope more conventions will adopt rules to keep events safe and welcoming. Be good, stay safe, have fun. 🦄💕🏳‍🌈

[@AshCoyote]

I hope so too! I think its important to remember how these actions affect the safety and wellbeing of the attendees.

[@XydexxUnicorn]

@@AshCoyote As I mentioned on BlueSky: Every sentence in a con's Standards of Conduct was put there because someone, at some time, did something that made it necessary to do so. There is no reason Furry conventions should allow prop weapons. We're here to be fluffy animals, not for dipshits to live out their mass shooter fantasies.

[@Z3r0Sk83r]

100% agree. Hiding behind trying to do a silly character was cope on their part and to no one's surprise the dude was a boogaloo type as well. I know that *they* know better because if he tried this shit at like, a RNC convention in Texas he would have gotten lit up the minute he started pointing it at the crowd.

[@eavids128]

I'm a big gun fan, but I do not think it is at all appropriate for people at cons to walk around wearing extremely realistic fake rifles, ballistic helmets, and plate carriers with rifle plates in them. Minimum, dudes who walk around like that have threatening right wing militia vibes. Who else walks around Navy Seal larping for funsies?

[@aurorakins]

that's the most extreme example, theres more nuanced cosplays that people want to do that isn't just tactical gear that a blanket ban would effect. Coming up with a better way to mark prop weapons would be ideal in my opinion.

[@AshCoyote]

I think better identification could really help folks feel safer in some situations.

[@eavids128]

I getcha there, I often use very abrasive language to describe things that do have a lot of nuance, apologies! There are definitely levels to this.

[@WibblyMart]

I'm so glad awareness to this is being brought up. The last thing I want to see in my safe space is a gun,/realistic prop. Thankyou thankyou thankyou So much for putting this in the spotlight and showing how it's affecting the community.

[@pivottech8881]

I'm a bit of a what you would call a "Military Larper" among other things, I like military, tacticool and LEO sort of accessories and I do play airsoft. Here in the UK you can own replica firearms (I'm speaking strictly airsoft in this part) However, you need to be over 18 and either have the weapon of choice painted in a distinctive colour (two-tone) it's similar to orange tips in the US but it's 51% of the weapon so majority of the weapon is for example blue, pink, green etc. Something to identify it as fake or you need a specific licence to own what is known here as realistic imitation firearms. I think if people brought nerf guns or maybe at a push two tone firearms THAT WERE STRICTLY HOLSTERED AT ALL TIMES it could be okay outright banning props I would say is a big jump cause I would say for example what if some star wars fan wanted to dress as a storm trooper, he could have a blue blaster or something and I think people would be okay with that but a storm trooper with no blaster is like having no spaghetti with my spaghetti bolognaise. I am very generic and boring when it comes to cosplays so most of mine are stuff like: SCP etc. However, I have also got a ZPD one (yes I am a Zootopia enjoyer 💀💀) and I wouldn't consider taking a replica firearm with these cosplays (the SCP one I'd take a nerf gun) but some outfits need one and others don't. I know for a fact the ZPD one DOESN'T NEED a firearm, why? Because it's based off a kids movie not any fancy action based movie. I also have one that is based off the TV show NCIS (It has funny badges on it too to make sure I don't actually get arrested 😂) would I take a firearm with me with this cosplay? Again, no because like you say it gives off bad vibes. Again, long story short, banning props? No, banning 'realistic imitation firearms' (which the one bom voyage had), yes. (Bom voyage doesn't even have a gun in the Incredibles movie so it just seems like a pure stupid thing for him to do)

[@jimmyjam49]

Along with freaking people out and possibly causing a panic. He put himself at risk of getting himself shot by someone thinking he was a real mass shooter. All it would have taken was an armed security guard, cop, or some paranoid guy sneaking his handgun past security walking by at that right moment and thinking he was the real deal and the headlines would have read “cosplayer mistakenly shot dead at furry convention after pointing realistic prop rifle at crowd”.

[@shinjiinuep]

You bring up a lot of good points about why realistic weapons shouldn’t be allowed at conventions. It’s gonna be a tough discussion but not impossible. I have faith that the community can get behind it.

[@ollieroo3334]

Thank you for talking about this Ash! I definitely have anxiety attacks and deeply chilling feelings of danger and hyper-vigilance any time I see a gun in a space I’m in. Happened just the other week actually, when I saw a gun (I don’t know types) like the kind cops use. My heart dropped and my whole body tensed. When I go to cons I don’t consciously think about how safe I feel, but I DO, I feel VERY safe at furry conventions! I don’t wanna take it for granted. I’m incredibly grateful when cons have things like gender inclusive bathrooms and signage. Or low sensory rooms for those of us who get overwhelmed. I went to a con with one of those recently and it was SO relieving to be able to be in safe quiet peace to go. We have consent badges and many people wear them! Ask for hugs, no hugs, non speaking suiters & Autistics, I have one that says “please be patient with me” cuz I sometimes take a while to do or say things. ANYWAYS yeah, this is important. It would be devastating to me to have that feeling of safety and acceptance shattered! I’m sure thousands of other furries and con attendees feel the same. Let’s keep our fingers wonderful community safe 💕

[@kloa4219]

It's not even accurate to the cosplay and it is not even funny either. I think everyone can reasonably conclude that it isn't in good faith.

[@carnelianfox5010]

Makes me very happy you’re talking about this! There’s a point where doing stuff like bringing around realistic prop weapons for shock value just doesn’t fly. Times change, standards change

[@otakutsukonko]

Thank you for bringing this perspective to light. I both have seen BV at Anthrocon and have seen another video talking about this, but with a lack of context and visual examples. I had previously just thought they were silly and entertaining, but seeing them here, as well as hearing your take on the situation, I definitely agree that something has to change.

[@AceNightblitz]

As someone who has volunteered as security at ANE, and Cosplay with prop weapons, you have to be respectful to the rules and those around you. Posing for a photo, sure! Waving the prop around and aiming at other patrons, unacceptable. Follow the rules so everyone can enjoy a good time!

[@neon_saber]

I think what also makes this feel threatening with the bombvoyage guy and other similar behavior with cosplayers and realistic prop weapons. Is that like when going to a con and cosplay like to a degree it is playing out a bit of fantasy. Usually all in good fun. But with ppl like the bombvoyage guy he is cosplaying a villain and acting out as someone shooting ppl. Like he is having fun/fantasizing, pretending to be someone commiting violent acts. Like someone who doesn't have malicious or threatening intentions about others wouldn't play pretend about actually doing and with purposly made realistic weapons. Like that in of itself doesn't have good intentions.

[@KetsuekiRose]

I appreciate this coming up, I will not go anywhere that realistic guns, prop or any which way are allowed. I have trauma from firearms, I appreciate you saying this.

[@EmberTalks]

As someone who has frequented anime conventions for years where gun props are extremely common, the conventions would have "peace binding" systems with colored zip ties or ribbons to mark a weapon prop as safe + signal to other attendees that it is safe. I'm honestly surprised this isn't a standard already in furry conventions but it also makes sense given that weapon props are way more common with cosplay than fursuiting.

[@Blaze_The_Fire_Wolf]

I’m back and after everything you talked about in my opinion Ash I think their should be measures on banning realistic guns,knives,swords etc even Air-Soft guns BB guns and paintball guns, I’ve already had the experience with being shot with Paintball and Air-Soft, both painful and having something like that in a convention?!? I don’t even wanna imagine it. I’m on board with everything you said here Ash 💖🐾

[@Tyler_Zer0]

In my personal opinion, I'm fine with the presence of prop weapons (mainly referring to prop firearms here) at any type of con as long as they have exaggerated features, or a generally unrealistic design that makes it easy to tell them apart from a real gun. The problem I feel with realistic prop firearms at places such as furcons, is how such props could be easily mistaken for real firearms from a distance. And how that could cause a lot of fear and panic, especially the US, where gun violence is such a rampant issue. My personal takeaway here, is that prop weapons aren't inherently bad to use for cosplay, but realistic prop guns and explosives while okay if you're only cosplaying at home or in a generally private space where no one can get hurt, rub me the wrong way from the perspective of carrying them out in public, where things like nerf and waterguns only have an orange tip and bright colors, due to past controversies surrounding toy guns and how scarily realistic many of them used to look. Anyways, idk what else to say, that was my lengthy ramble about my thoughts on prop weapons at furcons, and I'm gonna get back to doing whatever, have a good day whoever you are!

[@AshCoyote]

I appreciate your thoughts and feedback and agree. The more realistic the prop the more likely folks are to react negatively to its presence.

[@alexthekitsune8740]

Ouch, yeah while I have cosplay before and never use hyper realistic firearms like the trigger work but its doesnt shoot. I always look to see that cons have foam and 3D printed weapons. I use to work at security at otakufest I inspected every over exaggerated blade and firearm. I'm Should these weapons be banned? No, just better security and the check up on the people who has these props. That's just my opinion but understand it gravely

[@AshCoyote]

I think if they are allowed there should be better ways of identifying them visually.

[@eavids128]

That's very fair! I think that one of the big reasons I was more scared at an event like Otakon in DC, and absolutely no offense to those folks, is that they didn't have many resources dedicated to detecting and inspecting real weapons. Iirc they used a non metal detector based AI enabled system I happen to know is a scam that unfortunately a lot of venues have fallen for, and they had folks from con center staff looking at weapons, which, obviously these folks did their best but they were also on tight deadlines and (because it was DC) probably didn't have a lot of experience with handling firearms.

[@eavids128]

Evolv systems, for those who are interested. They're under investigation right now for fraud, but a lot of DC uses them unfortunately because of sunk cost, it's hard to get rid of a million dollar fake metal detector.

[@themadyokai]

i saw a couple cosplayers at furrydelphia this year and they seemed pretty chill

[@merrowley]

@themadyokai honestly a lot of the people who have these cosplays are pretty chill overall and most aren't out to upset or harm anyone, they just need clear rules set by conventions.

[@aurorakins]

Should focus on making the peace-bonding or markings better and providing better guidelines rather than banning all prop weapons. That way, people can still cosplay their favourite pieces of media alongside furry and do what they love.

[@Kibatekno]

I agree that realistic gun Props need to be banned. I’ve been to plenty of conversations and no one’s cosplay ends up looking stupid when they choose to use a toony/nerf gun or none at all. Sure zip ties and stickers on props are good. But you can’t see something like that from far away. Or in a suit for that matter. Sooner or later it’s going to happen. A cosplayer or normy with a realistic prop gun is going to get shot by the cops or a non con goer because they caused a panic.

[@RubeusArchos]

I get the point of weapons looking too real at a con but feel there more to it than just that. How people act also impacts this as well. Any prop weapon can be used as real weapon in some way. But this is not to derail what your saying. Many things can trigger folks. The fact that the world has gotten more violet as we gotten older dose not help. I have some ideas that could work , one is have people with realistic stuff get there props Tage that way ever one else knows what's up or just ban them all together from furry conventions. In the end there is no easy answers here. I feel we all need just pull together to find some common ground over all.

[@AshCoyote]

I think highly visible identifiers could be a viable solution as well as common sense around what looks too realistic.

[@RubeusArchos]

@@AshCoyote cool

[@jessiestar23]

My partner has a cosplay he loves of his Mobile Task Force persona from the SCP Foundation. He doesnt have any prop guns with it but the outfit is super tactical. He has patches that say MTF and SCP foundation. He does his best to put on furry accessories on his gear to show he isnt an actual police or swat officer. No one has complained to him directly about it but I know it upsets some people in general. I dont want him not to be allowed to cosplay but I dont want people to be afraid. IDK what to do. At MFF he put a santa hat on his helmet to not scare anyone

[@AshCoyote]

I think some of it is reading the room to know whats appropriate for the space. Ultimately if they are acting in good faith and having fun people will be able to tell and probably won't be scared.

[@ViroVeteruscy]

Just to clarify a bit, the cosplayer borrowed the gun from another cosplayer to mess around for a bit. Bomb Voyage doesn't use guns. Should he have been playing around like that? Probably not, but it wasn't his prop to begin with and if it was allowed in for the other cosplayer then it's also on the venue/security to properly check for those things in case a real weapon appears. I believe there was a tag to indicate that it wasn't real, but I could be wrong.

[@dutchvanderbilt9969]

I feel like this would be a good time for me to also suggest and encourage everyone and I do mean everyone to at the bare minimum learn the basic rules of gun or knife safety. And if you have a friend or relative who's rather knowledgeable when it comes to weapons and the like talk to them and let them educate you however they can.

[@sarrakitty]

I will say that I personally was among the people who was on the Bomb-voyage guy's side in thinking that people who wanted a hard ban on prop weapons were being too sensitive. Sadly more things have come out about him that make me change my stance about his personal character and I think he's kind of just an edgelord and possibly a provocateur. However I think that there is still a safe way to allow prop weapons at conventions if the con organizers want to allow that. Especially fan conventions for general nerd stuff, not just furry conventions, plenty of characters from more sci-fi and realistic settings might feel kinda bowlderized if cosplayers are blanket banned from having any kind of weapon props. But IMO all prop weapons, realistic or not, absolutely MUST be checked with con security, and an orange tip needs to be present. If someone refuses to let their prop be checked, just kick them out. Also if any particular con wants to opt to ban them entirely because of a lack of staff to do such checks, I do think that's fine, but I think it would be a bit lame if the new standard just became "no prop weapons allowed, ever" and that spread to most cons.

[@pokeypancakes]

I guess for realistic prop weapons, you could do what fortnite and call of duty does, put a spray or wrap on it. Like spray paint it where it doesn't look so violent. You could even paint it to look like your character.

[@sorenlandfall9629]

Convention staff cannot control behaviors in private spaces(hotel rooms) and publicly accessible areas(Hotel lobby, restaurants, outside, etc). There's nothing con staff can do about it outside of con reserved areas. Cons can ban individuals or props at their leisure. But they can't stop them from appearing without getting the venue staff involved. For example, Bon Voyage could get banned from FWA, but until the Marriot bans them, they can still show up, just not to areas requiring con access.

[@willjapheth23789]

Animefest had a prop check. Something like that should be fine. I'd mainly want it to be obvious so a real threat could be spotted sooner.

[@youkofoxy]

Overall, if someone has a serious anxiety around guns. They should read the cons rules about it and the details, as some forbidden any prop that looks remotely like a real one. If one do not like the rules, one should politely let the con organizer know their concern. On fear, there is two major way to deal with it: Confront the fear and revalue it or avoid it entirely. yes a con is not exact the best place for a shock therapy. Yet how should avoid complete panic and avoid escalating a situation, regardless of perpetrator. Now, on size and Zeitgeist, I do not think it matter much for wrong doers. Sure a bigger fandom it may attract outsider even more, however is all about risk management. And even if the Zeitgeist changes, does not mean old policies or ideals do not work, just that a revaluation of them must be made.

[@Lutan_the_fey]

There could be a lot said for and against realistic props, I think. To me it ultimately comes down to this. If ever a non essential thing I brought to a furry convention ruined the fun for another, I would be very sad about that. And I do not want that to happen. Clear and open rules about this should definately be a thing, though. Whether realistic props are banned or not, anyone attending should know what they are getting into. And people who point realistic looking guns at others for fun will... not make a friend in me.

[@revvingnoodle7192]

And then there is the possibility of actual law enforcers or military personnel on leave that due to their training and reflex can do something that can end badly out of muscle memory and their training as the orange tips at times can be hard to spot when you need to take decisions in split second, i don't mind the cosplay shenanigans, but be mindful to show is not real as some can be trained to act first, ask questions later and then the whole fun part goes out the window

[@AshCoyote]

especially if they are behaving in such an erratic manner

[@fritzedelweiss]

it must be terrifying living in a country with so triggerhappy police that you have to fear being shot while wearing a costume and weaving around a piece of plastic

[@muzunomi]

It wasnt even his gun prop tho? Someone at the con was cosplaying as a half life grunt and they gave it the prop to him for like 5 minutes. This is more a failure of con staff approving such a realistic weapon.

[@kloa4219]

@@muzunomi He brought a gun to a different convention later on after that

[@AshCoyote]

There's a cascade of bad decisions at play here; starting with the fact that the prop made it on the con floor. Pointing prop weapons at folks in a dark noising environment is a pretty awful idea as well.

[@muzunomi]

@@AshCoyote Fantastic points. The entire situation just makes me sad honestly.

[@chris_is_here_oh_no]

Fantastic video, excellent points!

[@AshCoyote]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@floofylogic]

I usually find it very hypocritical when I see the fandom gatekeeping and at the same time seeking acceptance. But in this case, I agree the cosplayer is acting in bad faith especially in a fandom so divisive...

[@Blaze_The_Fire_Wolf]

Dang I’m early lol but I’ll be interested in watching this, it’s better than being late.

[@AshCoyote]

It should be an interesting discussion

[@Blaze_The_Fire_Wolf]

@@AshCoyote I’ll share more info after the stream Ash 👍👍

[@charleighkimber4611]

He aimed down at people in a con lounge called The Pulse. That wasn't an accident.

[@brushnut1909]

I agree with you Ash

[@JerichoYeet]

Is that BOMB Voyage in the thumbnail?

[@logono9414]

While I do feel prop weapons should have some form of identification I still feel this is a bit of an overreaction as it’s a convention known for suiting and cosplay and yes, there is cosplay at furcons there is a lot of edgy furries that use prop weapons.

[@personalgoogleaccount9694]

As Furry conventions continue to get more popular, having a dedicated prop screening team will become essential. I'm talking full-on metal detectors. No different than the larger Comic-Cons that run today.

[@Ploxtifs_OldAndDeadAccountXD]

Moral of the story: use common sense An issue stated at 5:35 is where’s the line? One convention would be fine with just a red/orange tip(which bomb Voyage even adhered to, albeit with a very faded orange colored tip), and another would say no to even gun-shaped pop tarts. There should be a universal bare minimum with the MINIMUM amount of restrictions possible. A universal “no guns” policy wouldn’t work either, as not only would it potentially ruin many people’s costumes, but it would broadcast to genuine bad actors that it’s open season with plenty of vulnerable targets that are guaranteed to not be able to fight back or stop such a tragedy. There should be common sense rules for both props that can be waved around, and taking personal responsibility for one’s own security. No one should be allowed to be waving around a loaded gun, but you should be able to conceal carry for self defense or open carry and be safe and responsible(if your state allows it) Here’s my solution: It is a sort of “open carry prop” pass. A security “check” for every prop weapon/gun should be at required for registration, and a convention attendee should “declare” it prior to arrival(likely as a part of getting tickets for the con online). If you select “yes, my costume will have a prop weapon involved”, and the prop will be checked upon entering for having a VISIBLE orange tip that can be seen from 100 feet away(if it’s a fake beaded weapon, it must not have a blade able to cut through or damage a taut 1/4” thick Manila twist rope on one pass through the entire length of the blade once, objectively showing that it has a dull blade), which then you will be given a special card for the event that security can ask if you have it, and if you do, then you are let back in no problem. Security can only deny such a pass if the prop fails at the well defined test, and NEVER denied for ANY other arbitrary reason. If you have such a pass, you are then able to wave it around/have it on display. You can keep actual weapons concealed if needed, but without the pass, you can’t show it without probable cause. No need to ban anything, and will allow all convention goers to be happy and safe.

[@Ploxtifs_OldAndDeadAccountXD]

The convention should be responsible for ensuring the most inclusivity, and ensuring that these requirements are well-known and honest/fair. Con staff must not arbitrarily discriminate against anyone by denying someone of such a pass, and if such discrimination is shown by someone being denied a pass despite having a passable prop, then the convention should be held liable for breach of contract and arbitrary discrimination.

[@merrowley]

@Ploxtifs_OldAndDeadAccountXD i mean in the us, "having the orange tip" isn't some kind of kindness they're doing. It's the absolute minimum required by federal law for prop weapons

[@Ploxtifs_OldAndDeadAccountXD]

@@merrowley I’m pretty sure it’s federal law when selling it, but not mandated to stay on. Certainly many states and counties have their own laws and regulations(especially in states like California, which has even more restrictive legislation for even fake guns) but I doubt such a law exists on a federal level. Airsoft guns being a good example of such a thing. Many airsoft guns require the orange tip for sale, but many airsofters remove them for games.

[@merrowley]

@Ploxtifs_OldAndDeadAccountXD this is not accurate. There's even penalties if you intentionally alter something to not have them.

[@Ploxtifs_OldAndDeadAccountXD]

@@merrowley can you please show the section code pertaining to this matter?

[@richardsmith9726]

Even as a anti furry this is kinda fucked up I feel bad and I'm sorry for u about the school shooting and it is bad

[@piku5637]

Are you aware of how many anti furries are literal Nazis? That’s a bunch of abusers in your side.

[@Zushi_Tsunami]

Thank you. Ash for your informative videos.

[@AshCoyote]

Glad you like them!

[@Leethebeagle]

Yeah can't bring realistic prop guns to a place where it doesn't belong which would be schools furry conventions and the like I get if your fursona is a soldier during like 1700s to vietnam (just as long as it doesn't depict Nazis or the Confederacy) but even then don't bring guns there just leave guns, grenades and any of the like there guns belong in reenactment groups

[@EmojiDrawsArtlowkey]

If you make it look like a prob then Im fine its when it looks like an actual gun thats an issue 💀

[@fritzedelweiss]

before banning prop guns we should ban fetish gear( obviously im not advocating for either because freedom of expression is important but whats really hurting the communities reputation?)

[@mickeywild252]

Ahhh... you hate the fetish gear community, and want them killed. That's why you defend the guy mocking a shooting at them.

[@Ashvamproot]

The reality is some states harbor the old days and it can come down to the evils of our congress and picking and choosing. We need to vote the power of the evil out then we can make change

[@dreamydragonyx1110]

I remember seeing that guy at FWA. I jumped out of my skin at first. The weapon shouldve had a big orange piece on it like airsoft guns does so it can be shown its fake. And also dont oretend to be on a balcony shooting it.

[@aaron-v5r8e]

As so many con not just furry cons are open to people i can see a nut going into not a e.g role play etc going crazy as if the US is a scary place at times no one want area of fun turn horror

[@aaron-v5r8e]

Yes it is dumb a con should only have fake non realistic weapons e.g guns after all who knows if the person has a real live weapon and may used it to gun down anyone in a con inc sci fi etc 😱

[@TheShockedboy]

Having requirements and guidelines is understandable, though making rules around peoples anxieties, and mental disorders only limits peoples creativity. I've met cosplayers that spent a tons of time building prop weapons that go with their characters, only to be told some random people decided they apparently made it look too real. So long as a prop is checked and deemed safe, and they don't brandish them to threaten other con goers then that should be enough.

[@merrowley]

@TheShockedboy federal law says you need the orange tip. Making it too realistic without that marker is literally illegal, so honestly your buddies can shut up regardless of how much time they spent. Mass shootings happen regularly in the us and we need to be able to distinguish if someone has a real weapon. This is about peoples lives. Your enjoyment of a con will never be more important than the safety of others.

[@TheShockedboy]

@@merrowley I think you missed the part that said "checked and deemed safe" so long as and event has guidelines for prop weapons, and are followed by con goers then that's fair. My issue is if a con goer follows the posted rules, but a random staff member makes a judgement call based on their feelings.

[@merrowley]

@@TheShockedboy you're making up a different situation than what is happening then. They aren't checking anything and you making up a situation where you'd be right isnt really relevant

[@TheShockedboy]

@@merrowley Every con I have ever been to does prop weapon checks. They then use a coloring zip tie to show it's gone through inspection. Also the orange tip law is meant for toys marketed to kids, I've never heard it apply to scratch made props.

[@ewingtaylor5487]

A genuine problem. Waving around and pretending to shoot a realistic-looking toy firearm is not fun entertainment, period. The AR15-wielding mime (not even a remotely furry-theme costume) should have been shown the door immediately and permanently. Short of a total ban on such toys, think the "Peace-binding" mistycrom comment on procedure should be the standard enforced restriction at all Furry conventions.

[@null.psyche]

Really trying to get moneys worth out of that stock footage subscription. I get your point, but a blanket ban on these kinds of props would alienate a lot of people.

[@chickadeestevenson5440]

the character only had bombs in the movie anyway, this just feels like somebody pushing boundries and being a dickbag.

[@SniffHeinkel]

How was a guest who clearly wasn't a furry allowed to walk around a con with a realistic prop M-16 with an underside rocket launcher pretending to shoot people? Did no one contact security?

[@jimmyjam49]

From what I heard security themselves cleared it. It was someone else’s prop gun they had for their cosplay and he ask if he could borrow it. He did it again at another furry con not long afterwards but that one was mark with more orange on it including orange tape.

[@itsOasus]

Realistic guns have no place in conventions. And it is up to conventions to take the very serious concerns of their attendees into consideration when they are making safety policy that will apply to everyone.

[@AshCoyote]

Ultimately it will be up to the conventions as private events to make their own decisions. But I hope that we are able to keep are spaces safe and welcoming

[@Nitrofox2112]

Yeah, that Bomb Voyage guy is bad news all around and should absolutely not be allowed to go to any furry cons

[@wasuptime]

id like to see more citations and mentions to actual situations when you reference multiple instances of realistic prop weapons at conventions. in not doing so it comes across as ingenious or grabbing at straws.

[@merrowley]

@@wasuptime this isnt a scientific paper, there's not research studies on this. It's well known in the con scene that this happens.

[@Nightmare_bat0]

GUNS ARE NOT TOYS

[@rustthelion8270]

I would say keep the orange tip on the prop and you wont scare anybody

[@FirebreathXIII]

The issue with this is that it only works in the proper conditions, at the proper distance. You might be able to tell from 150m if a weapon has an orange tip, what model it's made to look like, if it's peace-bonded or not... But a lot of fursuiters can't make out a face beyond 10m, so them being able to identify an orange tip on what looks like an M-4 being brandished in their direction from 50m in bad indoor lighting is unrealistic at best. Not to mention a LOT of folks might be visually diminished due to poorer vision, for instance. Not to mention that nothing stops anyone from bringing real steel to a con and taping the tip orange either. I have nearly a decade's worth of conrunning, 8 of which were on various conventions' security teams, being a "team lead" for one of the bigger Canadian cons until a few years ago when I hung my constaff badge. I've participated in a number of events in the last 20 years, some of which were VERY "gun-friendly" due to the themes. And I wouldn't do those again due to the extremely different climate that we have today, and the rise in general violence, especially towards minorities (which are disproportionately represented at furry conventions). Need I remind you that actual attacks, which were passed as "pranks", have happened in the past? I was one of the responders at FurFright's "Parkinglot Con". Two years later, there was the chlorine "incident" at MFF in 2014. And recently, there was a firearm callout at Furnal Equinox that prompted a response from the authorities. The fear of actual violence is warranted at this point. And having realistic firearm props is NOT going to make anyone safer; quite the opposite, in fact.

[@somthinwrong]

what's the purpose of carrying a prop to a convention?

[@Caffine_Kitsune]

@@somthinwrong to cosplay

[@Caffine_Kitsune]

I would keep the realistic body but make it orange as hell

[@RainbowNanaki]

@@FirebreathXIII I was at FE the year of the firearm callout! After experiencing that, as well as all the mass shooter threats that furry cons get regularly, I'd prefer a full ban on realistic prop firearms, especially as someone that already doesn't see particularly well out of fursuit

[@dorianthegrey2685]

Twitter: the one case where deadnaming is not only okay, but morally correct

[@fritzedelweiss]

I can honestly tell you with basic common sense that the guy with the painted face who is clearly cosplaying waving around a plastic gun isnt a threat, if its a safespace why cant furs being into guns be themselves and have a toygun while in character, its not about threatening anyone when my sona has a gun its about my fursona portraying what i enjoy. I mean im from Europe so chances of some fursuiter bringing a real gun are basically zero but also every prop needs to be approved by conops. Im yust feeling stabbed in the back by you making that push against freedom of expression in the community. also very dangerous looking authentic explosive devices there

[@MelodyMute]

You missed the very important fact that the prop was checked by security multiple times, orange tipped, and tagged. Security made sure any realistic props were just that. The problem is staff communication with security, as they had different protocol on how to handle it. Banning realistic props does nothing to stop real weapons from being brought thanks to most con security being as cautious as they were here. People who want to bring dangerous stuff will always sneak it in, regardless of prop rules. If you want more clear signs of a prop being a prop, have cons put larger markers on the prop that changes each day or halfway through the day, like giant tags or stickers. This way, it's the cosplayer's job to check in frequently, security can list them, see who hasn't checked back yet, markers are visible even at a distance, and can't be replicated quickly.

[@mcgaggles]

OK, not a furry, don't go to cons, BUT more than one mass shooter has dressed in costume or noticeably bizarre attire. Obviously this is in poor taste and reeks of /b/, but considering this is, y'know, America that's really stupid on his part If a "normie" had no clue what was going on and saw a dude dressed as a clown, pointing a weapon -that cosmetically resembles a real firearm at a crowd, would there really be any repercussions for physically subduing or even using deadly force to neutralize a potential threat?

[@stazanimations7211]

Let's ban weapon's :3

[@Rockbullet-su9go]

I disagree

[@SpoopySquid]

I disagree with your disagreement

[@Rockbullet-su9go]

@@SpoopySquid cool

[@articusramos808]

My take? No. Do not ban

[@startracker5386]

If you believe prop weapons should be banned from furry conventions then you should also be fine with banning fursuits at non furry related events. Think about both sides, one side feels uncomfortable seeing prop weapons and the other side who attends comic or anime cons also feels uncomfortable when seeing or being around fursuiters. We can't just ban things we don't like and still expect people to be comfortable with us bringing our fursuits or furry related items to non furry related spaces.

[@merrowley]

The difference here is how could seeing a fursuit actually harm someone? Seeing a gun that you have to report because you aren't sure if it's real can shut the whole event down for an undetermined amount of time. Because you should be reporting anything you think is a real weapon, because if you're wrong, you've caused a disruption, if you're right you might be saving lives.

[@eavids128]

Bit of nuance here, one makes people uncomfy because it looks funny, the other makes people uncomfy because they think they might die. I own several rifles, I'm a huge rifle fan, but real life mass violence is common enough now that you can't just walk around with ultra realistic fake rifles and plate carriers and expect people not to be on edge, and nobody likes feeling like a shooting is about to start at a furry con.

[@aurorakins]

It's not really the same thing and its a very broad comparison. I think it's better to just focus on a better way to mark prop weapons that makes everyone happy and not just blanket ban things.

[@startracker5386]

​@@merrowley Yeah because somehow he passed all the security and passed a lot of people holding a real weapon😑 If people at comic cons can handle the dozens of fake guns there we can handle a couple but I forgot furries are the most sensitive people on the planet.

[@startracker5386]

@@aurorakins It's really the same comparison since the gun isn't real, you guys hate fake guns and people hate our fursuits. We ban fake guns and they ban fursuits for other events and that will make things equal.

[@tki1831]

I carry the real thing, so if it has to be left behind or "peace bound" I just don't go. And through hard experience I have found it is better to have and not need than need and not have even if the venue does not want people armed. If that offends you then tough you can cry me a river I will use it to make my coffee.

[@AuraDragoness]

And if you get caught carrying at a convention which implicitly states that you cannot be armed at the event, then I hope you didn't enjoy that convention much, since you will not be welcomed back. I don't care what your opinion is about carrying; you're straight up breaking con policy, whether you like it or not, and there are consequences to that.

[@tki1831]

Ah my first cup of coffee. Dont rightly give two hoots for lilly livered yeller policies, its not law and besides I dont go to cons because of their stupid policies, because I have seen how security is "gaurenteed".

[@AuraDragoness]

@@tki1831 Your language really does sum up the fact that you employ outdated thinking. What are you, some 19th century prospector? And if you don't attend conventions, why are you even _here_ commenting on this video? I don't know why I even bother with people who are just here to start shit; I should know better than to stoop.

[@merrowley]

@@tki1831 have fun not going then. Remember tou wont be allowed i to schools and airports either. Not our problem if you dont like it. You're the one making a fuss about bans.

[@meanteen]

This is outrageous... as a being of war, pain and growth (as a person) this is literally discrimination against me

[@angelnoel5464]

getting gaslight vibes

[@fireisnotreal]

so if that bothers you then let's ban everything that could trigger fear in some people like spiders, clowns... and so on

[@Szymek-yf6ho]

Fake weapons ruin the atmosphere... BETTER USE A REAL ONE 🤣

[@Spl1ntMan]

yes, lets embrace all this stuff... no mental ilness here at all... just well adjusted humans