Are Retro Games Too Hard? - Retro Bird

One of the biggest complaints I see made about older video games is that they are too hard. Is there any merit to this or is it just a result of gamers who have had their expectations warped by modern gaming?
Are Retro Games Too Hard? - Retro Bird / Are Retro Games Too Difficult? / Should Retro Games Be Easier? / Are Retro Games Too Challenging?
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#retrobird

[@RetroBirdGaming]

Games played: Contra Hard Corps (0:00), Jackal (0:10), Vectorman (0:19), Super Castlevania IV (1:00), Super Mario Bros. 3 (1:10)

[@futrellr]

that game with the dog head guy and the flame thrower is Contra 3?

[@ringfitmaster3079]

@Retro Bird I'm not going to lie. I like my games hard because I'm a masochist. I like pain. XD.

[@marinilsrud2681]

@@futrellr Contra Hard Corps on the Sega Genesis/Mega Drive. Contra 3 is on the Super Nintendo.

[@guillermos8447]

@@futrellr No, it's Contra Hard Corps for the Sega Genesis.

[@slow71971]

Try the barrel level on shinobi...takes a bit of practice...saying that mildly!!But I loved it!!

[@stevejd357]

I think I enjoy the repetition of these old games and getting better on each playthrough with practice. More modern games are often designed for essentially one playthough that you're expected to get through without much trouble. However, having to start each playthrough from scratch and gradually figuring more things out feels a lot more rewarding and addictive to me.

[@the_kombinator]

@ResetEjectStart Doing just that with Adventure Island right now :D

[@RetroBirdGaming]

You learn a little something each time. It's a fun loop to go through.

[@kenshinhimura2037]

@@RetroBirdGaming And the repetition is the essence of retrogaming to my eyes. You just learn every inch of the game, constantly optimise each action, so that at the end, you realy know the game, you learn it, it's printed on you, your mind, heart and soul ! I love this timeless attachment, and I find it's severely lacking in more modern games.

[@rockhyde7775]

I find the arcade style/length games to have plenty of replay value. RPGs in particular fail at that because they’re so freaking long and I have the tendency to complain about games being too long. It lowers the replay value for me. I can always come back to a shmup like Ketsui for instance because of its short length whereas I don’t have it in me to play something like Kingdom Hearts again because of its length unless I have some sort of motivation.

[@DilRyeMaster]

While there are still plenty of classic games that are stupidly hard I’ve found that a lot of games I used to think were hard was actually just 9 year old me missing the patterns and clues that developers were hinting at for me to learn from.

[@tonyp9313]

@ResetEjectStart Crash Bandicoot one is hard on the PS because you can't save after every level. I managed to beat that one. My fav is Crash 2 on PS 1.

[@the_kombinator]

@ResetEjectStart Oh man, I relished the manuals! I even drew maps and took notes on harder games (Crystalis and Final Fantasy for NES, Star Control II, NOMAD, Spacewrecked for PC) - if the games seemed like there was something more to them, I would explore every angle. Newer games have traded graphics and how cool shit looks for actual gameplay. Most new stuff is simply unplayable for me.

[@RetroBirdGaming]

You're tellin' the truth!

[@gaylordfocker7990]

How do you explain games you used to be able to beat with no problem but seem impossible now?

[@JohnSmith-zw8vp]

If only you had the Power...NINTENDO POWER! Then you could've gotten the clues that you can use!

[@mattb6522]

It is pretty satisfying to complete a challenging game. I think many people say that all retro games are hard as many of them don't have the quality of life features that they have grown used to in modern games. I think part of it is that some retro game developers made it so you wouldn't beat the game too quickly (the days of rentals) and other times it was just due to technical limitations. I like that many retro games teach patience and reward skillful play. Yes, you don't unlock achievements, but just getting a bit further each time to see more of the game was an achievement of itself. Most retro games aren't "impossible" and can be completed once you practice. I beat Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts through a lot of trial and error. Part of the fun of retro games is figuring things out and learning from your mistakes to ultimately achieve victory!

[@martinrbookermb]

I finished Super Ghouls and Ghost too and it's an awesome game! Challenging but you just needed to get to the next level!..

[@RetroBirdGaming]

Love your approach!

[@benaiahburns4046]

Absolutely! Most people have no ability to endure waiting on something. They want instant rewards now or else!!!

[@8ByteBrian]

The problem with retro games being “too hard” or not is mainly due to the hobby, imo. I have been playing retro games all my life from Atari to the present & some games I’ll never be good at. Take for an example, I was at a gaming convention years ago playing Contra, a game I can get to the 4th or 5th level without the Konami code. I decided to play it that day & use the code when someone rudely asked me: “You have to use the Konami code to play Contra?!” Like I was less of a gamer, & should be shooed out of the convention in shame. This type of attitude is very negative & annoying, why does everyone have to beat all hard games, or own “rare” games & accessories? Why does the hobby feel like a competition? I mean, sure I own rare games & have a ton of consoles, but so what? I proudly play games like T&C Surf Designs, or Super Dodge Ball because they’re fun & I go back to them over & over again. Ironically though I still enjoy some hard games, Ghosts & Goblins, & Ninja Gaiden are great because they’re fair, you get unlimited continues. Unlike a game like Gradius which is cheap, gives you no continues & is next to impossible. Too much emphasis is put on playing “hard” games, play what you enjoy, whether it’s Duck Tales or Mega Man, it shouldn’t matter as long as you’re having fun.

[@Crazy_Gamer_OG]

elitism is a common problem in a lot of hobbies. Seems like as I've gotten older, I just care less & less of what other people think since opinions are like butt holes, everyone has one & a lot of them stink.

[@newfiekiyaygaming2139]

I always play games on the easiest difficulty I'll be 42 in April and I just don't care for the look what I can do attitude, I really don't care, I just enjoy playing games! The first game I've ever played was Pac-Man on the Atari, who cares if you use the cheat code or not as long as you enjoy it, that's all that matters!

[@tonyp9313]

Yeah that sucks that someone was rude to you. Play the games however you want. I play games on the easiest settings now. The new gen games you'll die a lot in them I find & they aren't fun. With retro games you can master them. I can't say the same for Modern games.

[@the_kombinator]

It's only a competition because the person who's looking down on you for using the Konami code peaked in grade school and did nothing else with their lives. Ignore such losers, or pity them, as that code is all they have. The system may have aged, but such people mentally have not.

[@RetroBirdGaming]

I feel like I'm constantly trying to nudge my finger at this sort of thing in my videos. The hobby could afford to get to a healthier place. I think a lot of it is just misguided enthusiasm or passion. It's unfortunate.

[@Level1Sword]

I like hard games that are still fair. It's frustrating when in a fighting game it just seems like the computer is letting me hit them, but equally annoying when it just reads my inputs and blocks literally anything I throw at it. Every game needs to have balance, and that's a part of game design that is usually overlooked.

[@marioreyes7971]

I love playing UMK3 against people but hate playing against the CPU because the A.I. is garbage with it's button reading and such.

[@brettkihlmire573]

@@marioreyes7971 you beat me to it. MK 2 and 3 cheated like hell because they were designed as quarter munchers, but the AI was never fixed for home consoles.

[@marioreyes7971]

@@brettkihlmire573 that's definitely true the A.I. for the home consoles ports of MK2 & 3 were just awful. Playing the CPU wasn't really fun. But on the other side the Street Fighter 2 games ports were so much EASIER than the arcade versions.

[@TimeYT]

In Super Mario Kart SNES the Ai will blatantly cheat. Not a fair game but a hard one to master as it quickly makes you better at the game.

[@Productions-we2mo]

“I caught my copy of dark souls asking ghouls and ghosts for an autograph once” - bravo my friend

[@hussle2654]

Original Ghosts and Goblins was WAY harder than Ghouls N Ghosts. That game made scream as a kid, and recently when I revisited it as an adult 😂

[@lonreed9743]

I always developed a rhythm and memorization with retro games as a kid. Now as an adult, I sometimes forget and need to find that “in the zone” moment. Honestly, it’s like learning to ride a bike again after 20yrs. You’ll never forget.

[@veganpower7825]

I think it's all about adaptation. Older game's were definitely difficult because of the arcade era. I think developers who transitioned to console from arcades still had the "eat all quarters at any price" mentality. 😂

[@Adino1]

I used to beat these old NES games when I was 8-11 years old. But I had a lot of patience for them back then because they were the new and exciting thing Trying to get through Castlevania III: Dracula's Curse or the first TMNT today is pure torture

[@braillynn4903]

I need a full length version of that ending music, it's just so good!

[@TheHighestGodisGood]

You know what the retro community needs?! A comprehensive list of all games for each console, in order of difficulty! Then, new collectors/new retro gamers can assess what games they like, what difficulty rating they are, and then know what other games are around that difficulty/enjoyment level!!!!! You could create one and make a video about it!!

[@the_kombinator]

Difficulty is subjective though. For example, take a strategy game - some will have figured it out sooner than others, still some others may not ever understand it or care to. Learning curves play a big part, I picked up Binary Land (I remembered I have a 500 (really 400) in 1 cart the other day) and it was really easy to get used to controlling the penguins, but some games you legit need a manual to figure out and you gotta plan for things and sometimes follow a story arc... I'm afriad the list can only be generalized, and then you'll get wildly divergent opinions about a game's true difficulty. Still, interesting concept.

[@RetroBirdGaming]

Yeah, problem is that would be so subjective and hard to come up with. I love the concept of it though. Great idea!

[@benaiahburns4046]

That would be impossible, as some would say for instance that Karate Kid is hard on the NES, yet I can finish the game in 7 to 8 minutes. Sure, it wasn't my first or second time, but still. I mean, I've finished Super Mario World for the first time in 2 days, Legend of Zelda Link to the Past before 30 days (probably more like 15+ with school), and countless others in record times. For many others today, they would rank games I've finished as difficult or very difficult. For instance, I've played games like Final Fight on the SNES, and easily finished it. However, I've NEVER to this day saw anyone in person finish the game without cheats. This goes for thousands of other games I've completed. However, even if you had someone like me judge the hardest games to complete, there would be five other people saying they didn't have much trouble with that game, etc. I think the games that are among the hardest usually get told over and over often. Games like Ghosts n Goblins, Silver Surfer, Battletoads, etc. are many of your harder games. Either way, don't worry about what others think. Let your first experiences with a game be fresh. Who knows? You might blow through a game most everyone on KZbin says is HARD.

[@Estorium]

@@the_kombinator I came here to say the same. Difficulty is hard to gauge, for instance I am pretty good at the Souls games as they are slower and methodical, but absolutely suck at most shmups that others can breeze through.

[@the_kombinator]

@@Estorium ... and then there are those who play sports games... rather well lol! j/k to each their own, I like bowling ;)

[@JetWolfEX]

Some of us are like video game thrill-seekers, always looking for the next hardest game to sink some time into to master. Usually you want to do things in games you can't do in real life, like driving through traffic as fast as you can while doing some crazy stunts for example, I don't have much tension or adrenaline pushing activities in my daily life so I get my fix from playing challenging games.

[@RetroBirdGaming]

Haha I like your way of looking at it!

[@scottpilgrim2]

And to others, games others consider hard are considered easy. As is especially apparent in the RPG genre. Over there, hardmode is like a normal mode to me. But I'm not shy of grinding a minute either. I'm glad there are games for the casual crowds as well as ones that can't get the same appreciation for those easy games. To each their own right?

[@rodrigogirao8344]

The idea of "its creators meant it to be this hard" falls apart when a game had the difficulty increased from the Japanese original to the US release. Looking at you, Contra Hard Corps, Streets of Rage 3, and almost anything from Working Designs!

[@VladlustTV]

I think difficulty in games is a balance between the time invested required, and the feeling of progression. For example, you can take a hard retro game that takes an average person 8 hours to beat but they will spend most of that time re doing the same things, so the feeling of progression may not be super clear. Whereas in an average modern game that takes 8 hours to beat you won't die super frequently, and spend most of your time reaching new places and seeing clear progression. So in the end, I feel it's just a matter of your personal preference on how you want to spend your time, and what feels rewarding for you.

[@tonyp9313]

Yes that is true. It's a matter or perception.

[@codenamezz9993]

Challenging, yes. But it take less time to get the hang of them than newer games. Plus, they are complete, not like all modern games😉. Or they don't ask for money for having a particular weapon or skin.

[@codenamezz9993]

@ResetEjectStart yeah. They were challenging and more rewarding because of the challenges. For me 3do is also retrogaming, but not a big fan of this console, except for a couple of games.

[@davidchevez4690]

Save states are great for practice. I used to drill hard games straight up until I was able to get that no death run. Save states are a short cut to develop the skills necessary to eventually beat difficult games completely unassisted.

[@Nokia3310do]

Louis Castle (SNES Lion King game director) explained that they ramped up the difficulty of early levels because DIsney decided they wanted to tackle Blockbuster rentals. Their analytics showed that people wouldn't buy a game if they completed a large proportion of it in 6-8 hours play and so games were adjusted in difficulty to prevent that happening. To me, that's not a good reason to raise a difficulty curve but explains why more games of this time aren't as approachable as they should have been.

[@tonyp9313]

I think his analyses was wrong. I remember beating Turtles Hyperstone Heist when I 1st rented it. I bought the game right after. When I rented the Lion King & saw that the game was too hard, I didn't buy the Lion King.

[@megamob5834]

A good level of *fair* difficulty makes for much more satisfaction when you do finally beat the game. If a game is to easy and ensures that you will beat it, there’s somewhat of a ‘hollowness’ to completing it. I prefer the heart-pumping, sweaty hands, jumping up and down, giving the tv screen the middle finger upon completion, type of victories 😝

[@tonyp9313]

I prefer making the games easy as possible now when they get too hard.

[@trashpandaprivatetab2845]

I felt that way with only one game and it was bloodborne on ps4

[@brianhatcher2799]

Because it adds to the mystique: What’s past the third level on Mickey Mousecapade, or can I really beat Little Nemo The Dream Master? How far can I get on a charming game with lackluster controls like Bart vs. The World? Also, beating challenging games like Batman, the Mario games, and the Mega Man games as well as progressing farther than you thought was possible on hard games is SOOOO satisfying.

[@TheMysteryDriver]

Oh and Zelda 2 was accidently hard because of the play testers wanting more difficulty. So weird.

[@Bkuuzin]

For me, retro games are quite difficult! But if I play them long enough, I can get the hang of things. Sometimes you need to do tricky jumps while running forward, then quickly move backwards. Or time attacks just right. There’s a method to the madness! Ultimately, it’s all lots of fun!

[@Pandacalifornia]

At first the banana thing was like “heh that’s funny,” but following it with the “sinking your teeth” pun was pure genius.

[@DP12321]

One could even call it a-peel-ing 😌

[@rotallyPumpered]

Overcoming a really hard game is one of the most exciting and engaging experiences you can have with a game. I think it's important that the design, mechanics and tone really appeal to you before you have a good time struggling through. I definitely found that with God Hand, and it quickly became one of my all time favourites. If not, it can be really easy for me to drop off the game entirely. I don't think I'll ever make it past the first couple of levels of Alien Soldier, because there's just not enough for me to latch onto when I'm dying within seconds. I don't think there was the same expectation to make it through to the end when people bought a game before the late-90s. A game was just meant to entertain and amuse for a while, and if you died, maybe you'd do better when you tried again another day. I don't think I've ever completed a pinball video game, but there's still plenty I enjoy coming back to and seeing if I can do a little better all these years later.

[@jeffjackson9679]

I agree with you. I'm a JRPG geek and just bought Trails of Cold Steel, and the ONE thing that ruined that game, is that, if you die, you can replay the battle at a weaker setting, and keep making the enemy weaker and weaker, until you beat it. Their is 0 challenge in this game. Even the final boss fight is like this.

[@RetroCave-wr9tl]

Retro Games seem harder for few reasons IMO. In the days of simpler electronics, CRT TVs, and digital joysticks pretty much every move you made in a game was almost instant. None of the HDMI/LCD/Bluetooth lags where there that we are used to today. Players purely relied on their reflexes. Another things is, the modern games are multi-dimensional. They rely on different skill sets with combination of 3D space and complicated inputs. In the old days you play on a 2D plane, with only couple buttons to deal with. The difficulty they had to add to those games were testing how good you were timing your jumps and shots. That is why modern games had to expand on different aspects which makes them feel easier if you compare 2 minutes of gameplay.

[@eduardosegura192]

This Nintendo holding a knife had me on the floor! LMAO!

[@GoodVibeCollecting]

Retro games were designed to be hard. Pre 3D era gaming, most developers still used that arcade mentality of "Be cheap as possible so the player can put in as much quarters as possible." Plus games were designed to be hard so they couldn't be beaten very easily. Retro games are much shorter. It wasn't until the 3D era when arcades were dying off that devs started backing off on the difficulty because they realized console games don't need to be cheap like arcade games.

[@crazyconan28]

I feel that retro games are like older books, they have styles that might be harder to comprehend for some modern day people while for others they might be able to adjust easier. As some may say Frankenstein is a slog to get through similar to how some might see some early RPGs, while others enjoy the different way it was written/made and can adjust to those who see it as a challenge.

[@diegog1853]

I would go in a different direction and say that 2D sidescrollers can feel in average by its very nature harder (in terms of skills) than other genres. Just because of the simple fact that they require more inputs per minute, they are working in a far more limited space so just moving the character left or right is not very interesing. While in top down or 3D games just moving arround navigating this huge areas is a big part of the game. Even the more difficult games still can have minutes at a time of just moving from one place to another with the stick. 2D games can't do that, it wouldn't hold your attention for long, pressing the dpad to the right, they have to make you engage somehow with an obstacle or something. Someone that is used to playing 3D games might find it too jarring and intensive, starting super mario bros and imediately having to deal with an obstacle or die. And of course 2D sidescrollers are very prevelant in the retro era.

[@vibaj16]

I would say the biggest reason is simply that you have a limited amount of lives. Modern games don't put you back to the very beginning of the game if you die too many times.

[@TheBLBShow]

I think one problem with Savestates is that they can make a game seem harder than it is intended. I've seen people brute force their way through heat man's stage in megaman 2 constantly falling into the lava thinking the game is way too hard but the megaman games are not designed so that you can first try every stage but instead find an easy one and use the items you get to make the harder ones more manageable. (Item 2 trivializes heat man's stage for example) Same with Death in Castlevania. The holy water wrecks him but it is at the beginning of the stage. A place you likely won't revisit when playing with save states.

[@marioreds7826]

old games are not too hard. and i honestly never quite got the complaint some people have on this point anyway, who wants to play games that are too easy? where would the challenge or the satisfaction be?

[@cober5768]

Considering how short they would be if they weren’t, I’d say no.

[@RetroBirdGaming]

Yeah, it's just wouldn't feel quite right.

[@vibaj16]

I'd rather it take an hour than a month when it's the same amount of content. Plus, I find that 90% of the difficulty simply comes from the fact that you have limited lives, which is a pretty cheap way of making a game "harder".

[@megadriveleo]

Something that pisses me off is people disregarding a retro game because it’s too easy, and one of the examples you gave, Castlevania IV, really resonated within me. That game was hard enough when I first beat it, I mean nowadays I’ve beaten Castlevania 1 and Dracula X but Castlevania IV was still pretty challenging in some parts, the game being slightly easier actually helps for the atmosphere it’s trying to build

[@Brututsfan99]

I’ve been playing Madden since it came out. My favorite way to play now is by putting it in rookie and scoring 149 points. But I try to beat Eldon Ring as low a level as I can. I’m living my best life.

[@SkyStream-lt4dz]

I love how you tackled all the different mindsets that each player will have without being biased. Great video :)

[@leeartlee915]

That NES with a knife is one of the most terrifying things I’ve ever seen. I’m pretty sure that’s the stuff of nightmares.

[@bettywhite9634]

I think retro games were harder because their arcade counterparts. They was designed to suck quarters, thus were made hard to play.

[@PEHfinale]

I wonder how many people who have a problem altering the intended design of a game also used a Game Genie when they were kids 🤔

[@thomasschnaars8164]

It’s rewarding to struggle through a game and then finally overcome the struggle. A game that holds your hand too much can be relaxing and all, maybe reward you for thinking ahead and understanding its mechanics, but it can’t give you that specific kind of reward feeling you get for learning a pattern of seemingly insane chaos and then making it through that.

[@troystrain2436]

I find them much more difficult than I did growing up, but I also am out of practice on a lot of them. Oh hey, if you've never died during a cutscene, try Resident Evil 4! Plenty of opportunities there. 😊 Great video!

[@tonyp9313]

You mean the quick time events with Krauser?

[@troystrain2436]

@@tonyp9313 That one, the boulder scene, etc.

[@tonyp9313]

@@troystrain2436 Yeah that's something I don't like about that game. You are pressing said button as fast as you can & still die. I 100%ed that game even played that on hard. Did all the side missions & got the extra Gun if you played this on PS2 or Wii.

[@troystrain2436]

@@tonyp9313 Nicely done! I struggle with the Mercenaries mode and anything above the regular difficulty, so it's cool to hear when others can actually handle the challenge and get the rewards.

[@tonyp9313]

@@troystrain2436 Yeah the Mercenaries are really hard. I am not a 100% sure. But I believe once you beat the normal mode of the game the weapons that you have carry over to the hard game. I played it like in 2005 so I don't remember if that is the case.

[@Ty-douken]

Personally I really enjoy a balance of hard & easy games, though I do enjoy playing some retro games I own on mini systems or emulators instead of the original carts due to save states. I find this gives a balance of difficulty staying the same, but allows for fitting into modern life & allow some games to be more respectful of my time. As for why I like hard games, it mostly boils down to 30+ years of playing games & being determined to get better at understanding what makes each game tick. Playing Elden Ring now, I've never felt so confident in a Souls game before because I've played a bunch of them, the game has some new mechanics that leaninto how I'd like to play (block counter) & I've gone with a new build that allows use of faith spells which gives me more tools than I'm used to.

[@richyroa]

I think it is worse when you respawn real close to where you died, but you loose all of your powerups. In that scenario I'd rather restart from the beginning.

[@ChrisStoneinator]

Looking at you, RAIDEN!

[@MaryTownsendRyokansDomain]

Most retro games are but in a way the harder the game the better you are at playing any game, I always love a challenge game because I feel rewarded just to finish them

[@SuperGameHulk]

The NES controller with a knife taped to it really got me good!

[@NateTheGnat]

One of the hardest games I played was Roger Rabbit for the NES. You are thrown into an open world and have no idea what you're supposed to do. You are instantly killed in the first screen by a falling potted plant or a stray cat jumping at you on the street corner. When you go outside, you are attacked by swooping vultures (that instantly kill Roger and thus you) or are flattened by cars, or are chased by the super-speedy Toon Patrol. And if you somehow make it to the end of the game (which I never did), the battle with Judge Doom is one of the toughest boss fights of all time.

[@wiz3421]

I don't know how anyone is able to beat Judge Doom without assistance. I had to see it for myself and it was laughable how poorly I did without a Game Genie lol. If Judge Doom isn't the hardest final boss on the NES, there is no denying that he is at the very least in the conversation for the distinction.

[@64-Bit-Gamer]

Back in the 90's, I beat Zombies Ate My Neighbors (SNES) at least a couple of times and loved it. I tried playing recently and realized just how difficult it is. How did I beat this back in the day, I wondered? Well, I think I only went from one password to the next if I was satisfied I had saved all the victims I could, and not lost any lives. Of course, I had few games and time on my hands then, so that dedication was possible. I don't think I'm ever going to legitimately beat Zombies again. The End.

[@HotDogRock]

But it doesn't save your inventory! It's really hard to start from scratch but now in the harder middle of the game. I don't know how your kid self did it but congrats!!

[@64-Bit-Gamer]

@@HotDogRock That's true. I guess I must have just played it lots and got good, and to complete it, did a full play through without switching off. All the staff are present on the end sequence.

[@Ihnini]

In Rick and morty, Morty used save states in one episode. It didn't end well for him.

[@VGamingJunkieVT]

I think the beautiful thing about games is there's something for everyone. Not every game has to cater to you specifically, you'll always find a game that's as easy or as hard as you specifically want. You're not entitled to an easy mode.

[@watson3047z]

Darn you Battletoads! I can get to the last level with the warps but can't get to the final boss. It's a fun game that can go south very quickly. I think the challenge is what brings a player back to it. If the game could be beaten the first time it was played then players wouldn't remember it nearly as much.

[@adammason4314]

For "Hard Games" I usually exclude stuff like "Bullet'Hell" or even just the Side-scrolling Shmups in general. I've been stomped on by R-Type and Ikaruga that I just can't play the genre. I don't mind dying in a game but these make Elden Ring or Dark Souls trivial in comparison.

[@RetroBirdGaming]

It gets especially difficult when going after feats like 1 credit clears. Which, fans of the genre are prone to chase.

[@TimeYT]

Retro Bird: "I've always made it through cutscenes! Never died once." Halo Reach players after finishing Lone Wolf: 👁👄👁

[@Edwinschuur]

A lot of the difficult retro games are not hard in the way that you need to have good reflexes or are smart in your approach. Most hard games are easy games that want you to die a lot on things you can never react to or see coming. They want you to memorise when you have to make a small or big jump over a pit not be hit by an offscreen enemy or enemy projectile. This is just lazy design to prolonge the time it takes to beat a game rather than actual challenge you.

[@devonwilliams5738]

The sensation of having to earn progress can be rewarding. At least if the game isn't too difficult.

[@WayOutGaming]

I think modern games are tougher. It's way harder to sit through a six hour tutorial than to just boot the game up and learn as we go.

[@tonyp9313]

Yes this is true.

[@RetroBirdGaming]

haha :)

[@Weis_731]

No...

[@ikee5687]

I think it's because when we play these games, it always feels like "if I just had one more life, I coulda..." then you get a bit farther and that feeling hits you again on next game over. I will say one game I didn't expect to be near as tough was beating all the mario kart levels in Super Mario Kart. 150cc special cup is no joke. The other drivers cheat so hard with the ability to jump whenever, rubber-banding, knock you off stage, and there BS specials that somehow always found a way to land right in front of my kart. I was getting more heated failing to obtain gold, then I ever was restarting in Contra Hard Corps after a game over.

[@megadriveleo]

Beating Kid Chameleon was probably the most satisfying feeling I’ve had in a WHILE. Battletoads on the NES was also cool but I felt better with Kid Chameleon because I’m more nostalgic with that game. (Battletoads took me 5 months to beat but Kid Chameleon took me 8 years)

[@bluetarantulaproductions6179]

My buddy was trying to explain to me why he likes playing games on easy. He told me that he enjoys playing games on easy difficulty and because he can breeze through the game and do it before he has to go to work, do chores, etc. I told him that by playing "kindergarten mode" (easy mode) he's not truly experiencing the full game itself, that and if there is no true challenge, what's the point of playing the game? Yeah you can still have fun, though in my opinion not only is it fun, but if you overcome something challenging it feels great to reap the rewards (exp, extra ammo, extra life, in game achievement, etc.)

[@apexanomaly]

Fairly straightforward answer for this video's question. Easy games are boring, honestly it's probably why I haven't really loved any of the Kirby games I've played.

[@Bluegundam13]

@ResetEjectStart Kirby games can be challenging if you're not great at platformers

[@RetroBirdGaming]

I get what you mean. It feels like there's less at stake.

[@wagwagz6062]

if i was a pilot id tell the passengers there idiots all the time for not being able to fly. lol

[@jeffjackson9679]

The old 8 bit and 16 bit games were relatively short compared to modern games. SO the companies made them tough, making gamers have to replay them over and over to see the ending. The original FF on NES for example you could beat in about 10 hours, where FF 15 was probably about 50 hours of gameplay, even more if you grind and do sidequests. And that's an RPG, most action games back then, you could beat within an hour if you were a pro at the game. Basically, the companies were trying to make you get your money's worth , making those old games so hard.

[@inputfunny]

Exactly. I can imagine a kid going to the store to have their parents buy their yearly 1 or 2 games for the year; only to go home and beat it in an hour because it's so easy. There was very limited space on these cartridges because of how expensive memory was back then.

[@martinrbookermb]

BRILLIANT. when I was a kid i used to get games for Christmas and birthdays, and that was it,twice a year. Unless you had a paper round and you saved like crazy! You had better get good at that game you were looking forward to getting for 8 months. When I play them now I don't know how I did it? I don't last 10 seconds without getting killed? With emulators and such you can just scroll through the games give it a try and and if it's hard try another. I am spoiled now and my young self would look at me in shame! Great topic..

[@tonyp9313]

Yup. Same here I would only get games on christmas & my birthday when I was a kid. The fact that there was no emulation & very limited resources, you had to practice a lot to get good at a game.

[@martinrbookermb]

@@tonyp9313 Right on brother! It definitely made you work harder at the game. Now I'm older I appreciate that. It spured me on to go on to collect now I have a little more disposable income. I think that's why people collect now, not just games but anything that they were excited about as a kid.

[@ArnoldJamesXT]

Things like game over and having a limited amount of lives are things about retro games that don't exist in modern games. You had to be meticulous and careful when playing old games. Modern games allow you to be reckless, which is a death sentence when playing retro games.

[@retrogamingknight]

The difficulty of retro games seems to be a little different from that of modern games. Most retro games are considerably short compared to modern ones so levels had to be challenging every step of the way and if they didn't send you back and limit continuing, you'd learn the upper levels too quickly. Even without speed running, games like Ninja Gaiden takes around 30 minutes if you know all the patterns whereas a game like God of War will takes hours. Anyway, anyone that thinks retro games are hard has never tried to 2-All DoDonPachi SDOJ, now that's maximum difficulty.

[@tonyp9313]

If you use save states in retro games they are far easier than Modern games.

[@brettkihlmire573]

@@tonyp9313 Hit, save, hit, sa,ve die, reload.. lol I'll admit, I did that for those crappy gameboy castlevania games.

[@tonyp9313]

@@brettkihlmire573 I played Castlevania 3. Man is that hard but you can continue all the time & it has a password feature. Only thing that makes it hard is that they only give you 3 lives per continue & start you from the beginning of the level.

[@brettkihlmire573]

@@tonyp9313 Oh yeah, they're definitely possible defeat conventionally. Just some battles (death in CV1) are damn near impossible without full health and/or a specific weapon.

[@vibaj16]

@@tonyp9313 yep, it's simply the fact that there's limited lives that makes retro games so hard

[@mikeymacaque]

I also think there are different kinds of hard as well. For instance, I’m going back and playing Chrono Trigger right now and the difficulty doesn’t come from blistering fast gameplay, but from choosing the right party, learning the battle system, figuring out weaknesses, discovering side quests, wearing the correct equipment, etc. I enjoy older RPGs because they made it feel like my choices in the game carried more weight.

[@justinmohan7103]

It was just the way it was back then and modern games don't need to be impossible to beat. They should be fun and not frusterating. I'm stuck on The Messenger for no reason, just because it has to be hard because in the 80s games were hard. Developers need to move past that and understand that you should be able to beat the game and have quality of life improvements to do so, like saves and difficulty levels and greater life bars.

[@samuelallen2831]

Contra Hard Corps being at the beginning made me so happy lol absolute favorite Genesis game still!

[@TheMysteryDriver]

I think it's just that certain games that were popular were also difficult. Comix Zone jumps out at me. Like Mario and Sonic and Bubsy and Vectorman were all popular and beatable.

[@tonyp9313]

Yeah Comix Zone is really hard. I don't understand why they just give you the 1 life & 1 continue for.

[@halluc1nate]

I'm a save states guy and not ashamed about it. But I'm also an original hardware snob. Fortunately technology (!) caters to folks like me so I'm overall quite hunky dory with my retro games being hard as heck. I mean, yYou still gotta get through the hard spots, just with way, way less grinding. My time is very limited as is my attention span... squirrel!

[@albatross1779]

Agreed, retro games vs modern games really comes down to preference, and no game needs to please everyone. An additional argument for playing games the way they're meant to be played is that getting good and beating them was actually part of the experience. They may have been shorter games, but in actuality, making them difficult meant getting tens of hours of enjoyment out of them at least.

[@FoolishTeenDistortion]

This video has helped me!! :D I was starting to get frustrated and thinking to myself man this is just stressful and not fun..., but I was coming at it from the wrong angle because I'd actually forgotten what you point out about retro games in this video. It's about practice! If you wanna just put on a game to unwind and breeze through it like it's nothing and really enjoy it without having to use up much energy - then you've really gotta chuck on a game that you've already mastered ! This is also a good incentive to master other games by practicing them so there's more options of games to do that with .. A lot of people stop playing a game once they've mastered it and finished it ..but if you keep playing it , you only get more and more skilled at it and the game becomes super easy . Not easy in a boring way but easy in a more pleasurable way to play it..and it also enables you to be able to show off too lol... I'd forgotten that you need to practice to get to that point though lol I always think that because I've mastered this or that game that then any game I put on next should just be easy for me lol? I'd totally forgotten that retro gaming is about learning first and it's good that you keep dying or loosing in the begging because that IS the practice! lol retro games are complex , the better you get at them - the more fun playing them is ! For me anyway . I love being in games you see , so once I'm able to do everything like it's second nature , then that's when I go back and play the game start to finnish and seriously enjoy the journey! Not that the learning and practice can't be extremely fun also , but if you forget you need to learn and practice first - a game can become very stressful! Lol

[@retroradkat]

My experience with hard games has changed a lot. As a kid, I had very little skill but all the time and energy in the world. As an adult, I'm more skilled, but much less time to get better at a game and learn levels. There is room for both easy AND difficult games in my life, depending on my mood and energy. So I really don't think any game deserves to be bashed for being too hard or too easy. They serve a purpose to cater to a different mood. Restricting yourself to one kind of difficulty really limits the amount of great games you can experience, imo.

[@retroradkat]

A lot of the difficulty in retro games can be credited to missing manuals. Back then, they actually served a purpose, being helpful or even crucial for knowing where to go and what to do. A lot of games I had trouble with were loose cartridges for the Atari 2600 and Super Nintendo, and getting my hands on the manual made those games a lot easier to understand!

[@wantspizzadaily1316]

I always suspected my NES controller had a knife inside waiting to stab me, now my fears have been confirmed!

[@Jarod_Schultz]

I've heard developers made NES games hard because they wanted the games to last longer. If you pay $50 for a cartridge, and beat the game in less than a week, you might feel like you're being ripped off. If a game is difficult, it takes longer to beat it, and is more satisfying. NES games are known for being some of the hardest. I love Monopoly on PS1, and can beat the AI characters every time. But I've never done that on the NES version. The AI characters are much tougher and propose unreasonable deals. They want 3 properties for 1.

[@inputfunny]

Very true. Look at a lot of walkthroughs for these older games on KZbin, and you'll see they usually beat them in an hour or 2 because they're good at them. Also adjusting for inflation; the games back then would probably be around $100 in today's money. I think people wouldn't buy many games if they were spending $100 to beat it in an hour.

[@3DevilDog]

Most of the "hard" retro games I have played are timing, rhythm, pattern type stuff. Use trial and error, learn the game. And then there are the ridiculous mechanics games. 1 game I really, really wanted to like frustrated me with its sillyness. I think it was called Deadly Towers. The only parts of that game I remember are the ones where I died more times than I like to admit. Never finished it.

[@wiz3421]

Deadly Towers has game mechanics that are so hard to get the hang of. Never completed it myself either.

[@WhitePointerGaming]

In many cases retro games were designed to be difficult so they couldn't be beaten by someone just renting the game over a weekend. They didn't get any money if you rented it, they wanted you to go out and buy the game. Because the practice of renting games was pretty popular in the west but not so much in Japan, it was often the case that the Japanese version of the same game is actually easier, and they deliberately bumped the difficulty up for the western market. Contra: Hard Corps that's featured in this video is a great example of that - the Japanese version had a 3-hit life bar and unlimited continues while the western version had 1-hit deaths and just 5 continues (or only 4 continues in the case of the PAL version Probotector).

[@AnthonyFlack]

Aladdin on the Sega Master System will take you maybe two hours, if that? Still quite a cool game, but the fun is short-lived. There were a fair few games that came out back in the day that were infamous for everyone beating them on the first go and feeling ripped off.

[@tonyp9313]

I have to try that. I never played it on master system.

[@AnthonyFlack]

​@@tonyp9313 - it's a completely different game to the Genesis or SNES ones. I'm not sure how it came about but we got three entirely different Aladdin games, and they're all worth checking out. One's a Dave Perry classic, one's an early Shinji Mikami game, and then there's this one. OK, the SMS one is the weakest, but still has amazing graphics for the system and recreates the entire plot of the film. I'm sure kids would have loved it.

[@tonyp9313]

@@AnthonyFlack I tried it on the Sega Master system. I don't like it. I love the fact that there's a password system every time you quit the game. I keep dying a lot in it & retrying the level. You have to get used to it. I found out a couple of things like he can tip toe and this doesn't activate the spikes on the ground. Basically you are finding Keys to go to said area.

[@AnthonyFlack]

@@tonyp9313 - it mostly alternates between those vaguely Prince of Persia-like levels and autoscrolling action stages, which are fairly basic although the parallax scrolling effects in them are amazing for the SMS.

[@mazonemayu]

I like my games hard, coz there is always room for improvement in my gameplay. It’s basically a contest against myself: can I 1CC a certain game? Ok, now do it with a single life. Once that works, try it without dropping a single bomb, or do it with the worst weapon, and so on… It doesn’t always work off course, some games are just too hard to complete with a bunch of self-imposed set of rules (and I’m getting old 🤣), but therein lies the challenge for me. Atm I’m playing the Japanese version of Fire Shark on the Mega Drive, because that version is already harder than its Western counterpart. I can easily 1CC it, but I want to do a 1 life run, so as a rule I have to play the game at least once a day, before I thouch anything else…this is how you get better, it’s simple math really.

[@soulblazerz]

Save states are also the best way to train your skills. Also, I play hard games, though usually wishing they were a hair easier.

[@tonyp9313]

Save staes makes it super easy. How are you training your skills?

[@ILuvMoogles]

In my experience, there are many different kinds of difficulty in games. Some I like and am happy to spend hours mastering, some are just infuriating and unfun. By the same token, some games are only fun to me when challenging whilst some are made better by the removal of it. I think it's the same for a lot of people, though which is which will depend entirely on the person. That said, we should all just enjoy games the way we want to so that we can each focus on the elements we individually enjoy.

[@SuperPerfectFGC]

videogames can be really fun and fulfilling if used as a skill building hobby. My favorite genres are action games and fighting games for this reason. Breaking down something complex and turning parts of it into muscle memory so I can execute it quickly and easily feels really good. The process is not always fun though so I don't only play video games this way. But I really appreciate that there are games that give me the option to do this.

[@orkestriusmusic839]

The hardest part of retro games is knockback when you get hit

[@RetroBirdGaming]

Ahhh the dreaded knockback.

[@erneststackhouse1133]

Quick Little Story for Ya, there is no Quick Little Story for Ya in this video! :( Anyway, I like harder retro games as an adult as I do not have the time to put in 80 plus hours into a video game. I usually play 20 to 30 minutes top before someone needs me to do something around the house. In that amount of time I usually can play a game through all my lives at least once. So I really enjoy retro games more because of that reason!

[@Andrew_TS]

I generally like action adventure games over twitch-action, so I have not beaten many games considered very hard. I love retro-styled modern games, many of which have challenge, but great QoL features like saves and checkpoints.

[@erickmonroy5363]

Bro I love when you make those face expressions while talking about games I don't know what it is but they always Crack me up🤣🤣 love your channel it's mad underrated and keep up the good work!!.

[@21wagstaff]

I’ve read that the US versions of titles were often deliberately mate tougher than the Japanese version due to the absence of a rental market in the latter. Devs didn’t want US kids renting their game and beating it over a weekend with no incentive to buy it

[@moandaindesigns]

I love my retro games. I like the Challenge. However I really dislike when programmers resort to cheating in games instead of making clever/good designs. Like when the rules of a game apply to you but not your enemy. "oh Mr. bad guy can use this weapon and has infinite ammo, but oh no you only have 3 shots with it when you get the weapon." The rules of a game should be applied evenly and fairly to the player and the rest of the population of the game, or at least give a proper explanation as to why.

[@33Dannyb]

Been gaming since 1988 and I can tell you with zero shame I prefer easier games. Not too easy of course, but I don’t like frustrating experiences. When I pop in any classic game I always put it on easy because yes, they are usually hard as hell. Once mastered on easy I’ll tackle normal. For modern games it’s the other way around for me. I start on normal and if it’s too hard I’ll put it on easy.

[@tonyp9313]

Same here. I prefer easy games with little to no challenge to them. Modern games I'll put it on easy so I can finish the game a lot faster.

[@guillermos8447]

I think limitations of the consoles back then pushed devs to make the games difficult to try give time value. If you can't put much into the game, you at least make it difficult to see it all in one sitting.

[@tonyp9313]

This is what I honestly think. I think developers just pick and chose which games to make hard & which ones to make easy. There are games like Mega man 2 that have a passcode for every level, unlimited continues or a Save file like Sonic 3. Then you have those games that just give you the 3 lives with 2 continues limited. I think when Sony came out with there PS1 they set the standard to have you save every game on a memory card.

[@benaiahburns4046]

I saw below, where 8ByteBrian made a point where people worry so much about what games you own, etc. I think for most today, it IS about the games you own. It is like having a special badge that says.. "I'm IMPORTANT." The fact is, aside from the praise you might get for that one or two moments, spending huge amounts of money on certain games is NOT worth the small amount of praise you might get. It is also counter-intuitive to living a good and happy life that pleases you, and not everyone else around you. I'm saying this from someone who DOES have most of THOSE games. The thing is though, I paid very little for them, and for most of the "rare" games today, I would never pay those prices. Not only do I own over 12,000 games, I also LOVE to play them, and have finished over 4,500 games. What you will find with most "collectors" is that they might play a few games from time to time, but only for short or brief times, and then not play much of anything until they get something new. For these people, I wonder what the point is, besides to make KZbin videos, or brag to their friends about what they have. In the end though, most will eventually sell their collection, and move on one day. For me, console video games are a part of my life and I'll never part with them. In fact, they will continue on at the Console Purist Museum, long after I'm gone. Either way, sorry to talk so much about my own plight. The conversation Retro Bird started is a good one, and at the VERY core of why people do what they do. With a world so motivated by fake people, posing in scenarios or positions they don't like or even shouldn't be in, it is obvious I suppose why so many spend a decade or more of their lives on spending thousands upon thousands on games they won't play for very long or none at all.

[@tonyp9313]

Wow you own over 12 000 games? That's super impressive. I don't know what this has to do with the topic of retro gaming being too hard. Ok cool that you own that much & have played 4500 games.

[@danhoppy5517]

I remember playing the original Sonic games on the Mega Drive back in the 90s, and thinking they were quite easy (apart from the special stages). However, being a man of 50, my reflexes and eyesight are on the wane, and I can barely get past level 2 of any of these games nowadays!

[@professorjd2023]

To answer your question: Masochism? Seriously though, "tough but fair" offers a sense of accomplishment. This is why the NES Mega Man, Contra, and Castlevania games have endured.

[@tonyp9313]

Contra is 1 of the easiest games. I beat that without dying once like 4 times out of 500 times I played it probably. I can beat it with 3 lives everytime.

[@BlankSpacePub]

Tony P , I’ve become familiar enough with the NES Contras to beat them consistently without the codes, and Mega Man games are second nature to me. But Castlevania 1 and 3 still give me some trouble.

[@tonyp9313]

@@BlankSpacePub Mega Man 1 is the hardest out of the 6 because it doesn't have a passcode or save file like the remade ones for the Mega Man Collection. Aww man lol I just died in a way easier game in Sonic & knuckles. I was playing that on it's own so no save file. I died at Metal Sonic. You fight him like 3 times which I forgot lol. Sometimes I will beat the hardest of game & then fail at an easy game lol.

[@CasperEgas]

Some retro games are unfair or too difficult. Mostly because the testers were very good gamers, giving the wrong feedback. But I do like the challenge of a lot of retro games.

[@tonyp9313]

If I were in charge of games I would make sure every game would have a password for every level you complete. Mandatory at least 3 lives for every game. Check points mid way through the stages. This would apply for side scrollers, Airplane shooters, Top down scroller, Gun games & beat em ups. Then for RPG games I would make sure you would have a map, time travel & Marker indicating where to go with a save file in them. Passwords for fighting games. More importantly I would tell them no matter what difficulty you beat the game on you get the same ending regardless of what difficulty setting you play on.

[@Theophanis_Ketipidis]

I don't know if retro games are too hard or just hard but modern games are definitely easy

[@GibbsBro]

2:36 gave me a good laugh

[@mmeditatio]

i prefer the skill-based difficulty of old games to the forced difficulty of 'hard' modern games

[@MyBrothersKeeper101]

Some retro games are hard the fact of the matter is today's society isn't confident enough to approach these tasks without an immediate reward

[@boyonthephone1]

It took me 3 solid months to finish ghouls and ghosts on the mega drive. I was so satisfied when I finished it but man it was hard. Still I've got great memories. Keep on keeping on oh brother of the microchip and the sprite!

[@ekahnoman7331]

Comix Zone is so unnecessarily punishing. For a game that draws you in with how stylish, creative, and fun it is; then to only give you ONE continue is just plain cruel.

[@AnthonyFlack]

IIRC you get one extra continue for each level you clear. Don't forget to use the rat often to reveal secret items.

[@RetroBirdGaming]

Yep. You can earn more continues. It helps a lot.

[@ekahnoman7331]

I remember reading that online and then trying it, but not having any luck earning continues.

[@inputfunny]

It is punishing because the whole game can be beat in like 30 minutes. Hard difficulty was used to cover up the short length. Imagine paying $40+ for the game back in the 90's(around $80 or more with inflation), and then beating the game in 30 minutes because it's easy. Memory on cartridges back then was expensive, so they were limited in what they could put on the cartridge.

[@blackwalls]

Funny- I heard the song at the end of your videos played on a different KZbin Chanel “wild pogo”. I always thought it was a retro bird original :)

[@RetroBirdGaming]

Nope. I intentionally chose the beat from the KZbin free library to avoid any copyright issues.

[@colt5189]

I think the main reasons why retro games were hard is because the publishers were used to making hard games for the arcades to drive quarter sales, and so they just implemented what they knew for home console games. Other reason is because those games were short. And probably to make customers feel like they got their monies worth, they made the games really hard. As really, you can beat a lot of those games in 30 minutes if you use save states. Other reason is because game saves, etc. was expensive, and passwords were probably more of a pain to program. And so they just set it up where you had to beat it in one go with limited lives and no saves. I remember wanting Felix the Cat game on the NES. And for some reason I didn't rent it first. But got it for a birthday, and that game was super easy and rather boring. And I beat it in like 30 minutes or so and was super pissed that I wasted an entire birthday on that game. Whereas I spent years trying to beat Battletoads and other games like the first TMNT NES game. I don't like super hard games, and I don't like super easy games. I wish Battletoads and Ninja Gaiden, etc. were a little easier so you could at least get to the end of the game. Like with Ninja Gaiden, just make it where he controls more like Mario, and get rid of the endless spawns in certain areas, and make it where your character doesn't fall backwards when getting hit.