Are Strategists BROKEN in Marvel Rivals? Overwatch META Warning!

[@real-pyre]

Literally just increase the amount of charge you need for ults, and you're good. Cloak and Dagger and Luna countering other ults is fine, they just need to be able to do it less often.

[@chriso7972]

No they have too much complete kit... they cant have strong ults but they neutral game has to have flaws... support can't have healing, damage, utility, heals, self heals, mobility, ults, and the best hit boxes... something has to go specially bc the class has monopoly over self-heals and heals

[@avariciousgaming1695]

​@@chriso7972this, healers don't have flaws or have to much utility to cover them up. Sue can push, double jump, go invis, and shutdown others mobility. Her basic also bounces off walls and hits twice. Her weakness should be her damage but with the bounce and cleave she actually does insnane damage and healing too.

[@chriso7972]

@avariciousgaming1695 I agree, support need to have flaws... I would argue little more than that bc they have monopoly over self heal and healing others... the reason why so oppressive to fight them is that you can't kill their team without burst or isolating teammembers so you must fight support but they have so much in their kit you can't win 1v1 but must of the time a teammate would peel so gl getting 1v1... if support have heals they must have weaker kit than dps

[@chriso7972]

@avariciousgaming1695 also I don't mean supports should be garbage but I want support to feel like adam warlock... he lacks game winning ult, lacks mobility, and lacks healing, but he still feels impactful and great and I should not win every duel or survive every encounter with dps

[@Randy-zw7mk]

This and they need more unique identities. All of them simply healing enough to deny ults is boring.

[@LeChevalierduLys]

My issue with nerfing Strategists, is that there is already so many people who ALWAYS play Duelists, Making Vanguards/Strategists more appealing/fun to play is important. As a support "Main" the number of times i'm being jumped by Iron Fist, Spider-Man, Black Panther, Psylock, Star Lord, etc... I, at lest, have a chance of survival, sometimes.

[@metroidgus]

but last season jeff was the most played character in quickplay

[@LeChevalierduLys]

@metroidgus some people like to play cute characters, and is ult IS op as all hell...

[@TheGamesaga]

whats your rank?

[@cadymus9657]

The problem is that strategists ultimates never take any skill. If they could survive and make others survive through skill, it would be great.

[@ekan46]

@@metroidgustake a look at what ranks jeff was the most played in..

[@Tetsuo_88]

Triple support meta? OW Veterans: "I HAVE PLAYED THIS GAME BEFORE!"

[@mylesriley2976]

I think support ults are the problem. They just have to increase the amount needed to charge them. The ults feel good to play against they dont feel unfair in power. They feel strong and oppressive in presence because they are in every single on of your team fights.

[@manuelgutierrez9675]

Ya a 20-30% increase in charge amount is required they should not be using ultimates twice back to back on first point i saw a cloak and dagger ult 4 TIMES

[@key2shawn154]

@@manuelgutierrez9675that’s not possible

[@cbaileychamp]

​@@key2shawn154unfortunately. Yes it is. Cloack and dagger is the worst offender rn when it comes to a busted ult that charges way too fast. Ive seen 2 times eithin 90 seconds

[@Kurtis922]

I find myself rolling my eyes and leaning my head back when a cool team fight happens and support ult after support ult is popped and know its a waist of my time trying to kill anything and just having to wait it out.

[@lucienwildfire2676]

Skill issue

[@Kurtis922]

@@lucienwildfire2676 Wow got me there, good one.

[@SweeneyII]

Can't you say the same from the supports PoV though? "Cool team fight happens and dps ult after dps ult is popped and it was a waste of time trying to keep anyone alive and just having to wait the respawn out"

[@emergency.jergens]

Q to save team is exactly the same as Q to wipe out enemy team. If you get a support to use their ult from a skirmish you probably win

[@jellosteffes4093]

​@lucienwildfire2676 drop addy lets fight in real life lets see if that's a skill issue bet you won't win

[@DarthPicarat]

This is whats so genius about the ban system...the players can always choose to ban the healers and not, lets say Hela...then whats the meta look like

[@wakandanbuttermilk4985]

not when i have to solo que i cant even get up to diamond rn, they need to have bans in plat as well.

[@jschlopes]

@@wakandanbuttermilk4985 bronze-plat the picks barely matter if you're good enough. I've lost games with triple support, 2 support, 3 tanks, 2 tanks, 2-2-2, literally nothing matters down in shitlow elo. At some point they will increase the amount of bans when there's more characters introduced as well which is perfect for this kind of stuff too.

[@anhkhoanguyen8562]

it's now reaching the point that it's impossible to ban to prevent a meta. There are already 5 supports with defensive ult: Luna, Mantis, C&D, Loki (can copy any other defensive ult), and now we have invisible woman, so even if you want to prevent a 3 support meta then the enemy team still have 3 supports to do that. I would say 3 supports meta already exist in season 0 (dear god that final match in Asian tourney with mirror matches of 2-1-3), but now Invisible woman broke the camel's back, people just can't ban that strat anymore.

[@nosequeponer3222]

I hope the developers of MR don't listen to the complaints of OW youtubers so they don't ruin yet another game.

[@yaxxydesu5776]

the only thing that OW YTBers want is to MR to succeed lmao they should listen to them because they lived this & knew/know how to fix it

[@jame8618]

@@yaxxydesu5776 yet it was never fixed on OW, im all for rivals taking a different approach really

[@Hawaii_Foxx-0]

​@@yaxxydesu5776My dude Your Overwatch sucked Blizzard's dick for the entire existence of OW2 He and Kar-Q defended the heroes locked in the battle pass at first All these creatures Warn, Your Overwatch, Stylosa, Jay3 etc they went to these NDA meeting and lied to every fucking body falsely advertising the game and hyping OW2 up, making excuse after excuse after excuse for years for the Blizzard dev team. Do not defend the OW Content Creators, 90% of them are total god damn skills and they should not have a part in the development of the future of Marvel Rivals after the way they contributed to the destruction of OW with their complacency and lies.

[@memes3751]

This is true, the parasitic community from overwatch don’t know what they want 😂. Look at the game their refuges from. They made there own game shit along with the devs and now their latching on to marvel rivals. Don’t let these parasites near any discussions

[@bambampewpew32]

​@@jame8618 it wasn't fixed in OW mostly cause they barely listened lmao

[@zyonhenderson67]

Its kind of a catch 22 Cause yeah there's too much sustain and everything feels unkillable. On the other a DPS meta will mean that no one will play tank and supports will feel terrible. I would honestly just nerf the defensive ults a bit but keep the sustain the same

[@BHPOfficial]

I think this is the way. Make Luna ult 9 seconds and her, invisible, and cloak all take longer to charge. EZ fix without making the whole game the 6 dps hellscape bronze 3 is

[@SimpleReally]

​@@BHPOfficial there is no point nerfing support ults when nearly every other dps ult is a noob instakill the whole enemy team button

[@jayyyceee8403]

@@SimpleReallyExactly man, if they nerf support sustain everyone will just insta die the moment a braindead Storm or Psylocke or any other dps decide to ult. Supports aren’t the only ones with “braindead” ults

[@RJA]

All they need to do is adjust Luna ult duration a bit and make cloak and daggers ult charge longer. Cloak gets ult way too fast

[@zyonhenderson67]

@@jayyyceee8403 You know, I find it funny that Supports gets shit for "brain dead ults" but every body else gets free pass

[@koelee]

Healers are definitely broken, but it's absolutely necessary in this game because of the low TTK (time to kill). In Overwatch, TTK has always been rather long. Strictly talking DPS, most take over 2 seconds to land a kill against a stationary target, giving players a LOT of time to avoid damage and take cover, and for healers to reactively provide healing. TTK is so long in overwatch that anti-healing is a necessary evil to keep sustain in check. In rivals however, a LOT of heroes have ways to kill you in less than a second. Think Psylocke, Hawkeye, Hela, Gamma Iron Man, Bucky, Namor, Storm, Moon Knight, Punisher. Tanks such as Thor, Groot and Strange also have combos that can instantly kill a target. Even the strategists themselves like Luna and Loki can land extremely fast kills if they want to. The balance between extremely low TTK and insane amounts of healing is what makes the game feel so fast paced, and why everyone feels broken in their own ways. Both are necessary for the game to keep feeling as fun as it is right now. If you nerf healing, eventually you'll have to nerf damage to increase the TTK to compensate, and the game will feel slower, and less impactful, which is where Overwatch is now, and has been since GOATs. Side note, this is also the reason why DPS characters who deal consistent damage, but have no way to burst targets have been left behind in the meta (Scarlet Witch, Iron Fist and most recently, Mr. Fantastic).

[@D_Jilla]

TTK is not faster compared to Overwatch. They are pretty much the same.

[@killertofu3600]

Ur right this is also the reason why people who complaing about not haveing the bigger dmg number dont understand the game. The burst dmg is what makes u imoortant. If someome has low dmg But the highest kills in the lobby, then they are playing optimaly. The best example is a cracked widowmaker in OW, low dmg but high kills while also applying lane pressure like a tank

[@lelenny7725]

What are you yapping about? There's a shitload of characters in overwatch who can either 1 shot or 2 shot kill.

[@ramsey-x2u]

Making the entire team invincible to 99% of damage and giving the same ult to multiple different healers is not necessary. It incentivizes having a team mostly compromised of healers, especially on defense. It doesn't help that multiple healers like Mantis have comparable DPS to actual DPS characters and multiple skills that entirely remove an enemy from the fight for multiple seconds.

[@bambampewpew32]

TTK has definitely NOT always been long in overwatch lmao, it started getting long after OW2 though, damage numbers for lots of dps were flat out nerfed, soldier, reaper, tracer (reverted), genji etc.

[@11679MRT]

Anyone else having games where the enemy isn't announcing their ultimates? I had one recently where the enemy Star Lord would just pop off his ult with no warning. Amazing to face in a competitive match.... I hope it was just a random bug.

[@appleseed445]

Did he come through a portal? Cause if they pop the Ult on the other side you won’t hear the queue.

[@D_Jilla]

I have had this happen occassionally where you don't hear the voice line. It happened the other day with the enemy punisher. Game is jank.

[@11679MRT]

​@@appleseed445No

[@CadaverJunky8]

Its a known bug. Love getting one shot by the world's most quiet Iron Man

[@depressionembodied]

Had this happen with a moon night ult, no strange in sight just died with no sound que

[@trilloff]

As it stands, triple tank is not meta. There is too much value in less tanks and more supports, bar 1 Tank. There's too many DPS that will dominate with 3 tanks on the enemy team. Wolverine being the best example. But also: Punisher, Squirrel Girl, Moon Knight, Hawkeye, Magik. Many more, but it's subjective. Who will kill Ironman? Who will kill Storm? Tanks "can" but not as easily.

[@jakegallant2021]

Without a role queue this is a pretty impossible task. A major nerf to healing just going make strategist feel bad. Duelists already have the “coolest” heroes. As others have suggested, maybe tweak ult power and charge. As a side note… other than content creators and streamers who cares if the game is fun to watch? I got really tired of blizzard making balance decisions around the top 0.1% of the player base.

[@nexus2624]

Role queue demanders continue to cope I see Y'all will take any issue and then go "This is why we need role queue" It's not coming. Because it's not enjoyable for most players. When you demand role queue you are asking for the same things that supposed "0.1%" wants. Overwatch died the moment role queue was introduced because it locks you into a role permanently instead of being flexible. It promotes and enforces the idea of playing just ONE role, instead of actually LEARNING WHAT THE OTHER ROLES DO and being able to flex any of them at any given time. Adding role queue would remove a core player type which are players who flex roles, and these players arguably end up being the best players in these types of games. The game encourages you to experiment, to try to learn things that work even if they don't appear to at first glance. Knowing how to play all roles instead of feeling forced to pick a single one is a necessary skill to learn and if you introduce role queue then it removes that aspect entirely which removes a lot of desire to play for a lot of people. Stop demanding role queue. It is literally what killed Overwatch. You guys are like "DON'T DO THE BAD THINGS OVERWATCH DID!" while at the same time requesting them to add so many features that turned Overwatch into a boring, cesspool grindfest.

[@GoodMenstruationAttitude]

I don't think it was a mistake for Blizzard to optimize the game around pro play. But the fact they were schizo about it was the mistake. The pro scene had its pull - but they kept waffling on the idea. If you want Moira, Brig, Dva, Zarya to be meta, fine, but don't worry about the pro scene if that's what youre going to do. Be real with your fanbase and cater to them. But they always tried to cater to both - so you have pro players leaning heavily on Widow... and also Brig 🤦‍♂. Lucio, gone, Ball, gone, the only really interesting viable pick is Tracer.

[@JCglitchmaster]

@@GoodMenstruationAttitude They shouldn't balance around pro's they should balance around grandmaster/top 500. Pro players have a completely unrealistic level of communication that will never get even close to achieved by the average playerbase and due to the nature of OW and how certain heroes synergies it just annihilates the balance of heroes for even the top people on ladder.

[@lycanmark]

No role q is not need in this game. All they need to do is make the ban system in all ranks. So if you play comp they you get to ban what you don't like. That will stop it from you always having to play against one meta. This is also the reason that ow failed because if they had add a ban system where the players could ban their would never have been the goats problem. But no ow decided to have a cat do random bans every week lol. They really thought their player base was that dumb.

[@GoodMenstruationAttitude]

@ I could agree with that for sure. I do think though that if they're going to invest in pro play, nothing wrong with making good television the meta. Coincidentally, imo the most-fun-looking characters are also the most fun to play.

[@fredrickwilliams293]

Why are you surprised Sty? A meta will always form no matter what format you allow in games. Gamers will always figure out the easiest way to win within any given set of rules.

[@ramsey-x2u]

No one is shocked that there is a meta. It's just this is the type of meta that everyone wanted to avoid after it killed overwatch. Making healers or snipers too strong is a quick way to kill off a PVP game.

[@battlericky17]

Im convinced sty has 0 clue what hes talking about when it comes to rivals.

[@lycanmark]

​@@ramsey-x2uya but it only killed OW because they did not want to add a ban system to that game. Instead they had a ban system where a cat decided every week what hero would be banned like they think the player base is that dumb. Here in MR they should just have the ban system at all ranks in comp that way if you don't want to play against it then just ban it. Easy fix for bad metas to not be there every game.

[@lycanmark]

​@@battlericky17ya sty saying we have a problem with 6 dps being picked every game we need role q. Next video supports are to strong they need a nuff. Lol that will in turn make more players play dps. You can't even make this up.

[@cykeok3525]

@@ramsey-x2u I thought this should have been obvious, yeah. Sty: "Uh oh, a 3-Support meta is forming in Rivals" Herpderp: "Why are you surprised there is a meta? metas always form, hurrr"

[@_EXP626_]

Sustain is really high where nothing dies, and damage is so high you just instantly explode. Can’t change one without changing the other.

[@KlayGoods123]

That is not true lol, mfs just wanna healbot and never die because they got no skill

[@Grim_Hxllow]

100% agreed

[@Grim_Hxllow]

They should lower healing and buff base hp or lower dmg

[@spotow9819]

​@Grim_Hxllow NO. LET'S NOT DO ANOTHER S9.

[@Quantum_Comics]

@@KlayGoods123hell yea brother I suck but my healers got my back we’re a true team

[@DNYLNY]

So many streamers were saying heal buffs don’t matter bc there’s a threshold to the healing. But obviously not. Since the strategist heal buffs, sustain has gone through the roof. I’m not necessarily upset with it tho. I think it’s fun and makes the game more tug of war and is unique to the hero shooter genre.

[@SH1NK1R01]

The buffs were to their ultimates. The actual healing done hasn’t changed. You are misunderstanding what has made them strong now and acting like you were right all along.

[@SH1NK1R01]

@@mintparfait my brother in Christ those modifiers have existed this whole time. The only thing that changed was cloak ult was buffed and Susan was added with another defensive ult. You wrote your comment as though “heal buffs” changed something about the game. The game is the same. Healing output wasn’t adjusted in season 1. Only the power of 1 ultimate and the amount of defensive ults available. Also damage was increased due to storm buffs making her played more. Which was the original reason 3 supports was attempted. You don’t seem to understand why things are happening in this game.

[@mintparfait]

@SH1NK1R01 nah I just literally didn't see the comment you were replying to because of mobile browser layout and misinterpreted what you said, no need to blow a gasket. My bad.

[@Wave-IIV]

we need those defensive ults when storm ults charges just as fast and does crazy damage, starlord ult is crazy , moon knight , psylocke etc. and ults like ironman , mag , scarlet witch can one shot even almost all the support ults

[@copiagueeagle]

May I interest you in our lord and savior Magneto that can counter fully or partially all of those ults? Hell, Hulk can counter Moon Knight and Psylock with a single button press. We most certainly do NOT need all those defense ults, we need you guys to actually learn some tanks. 😂

[@copiagueeagle]

Follow up: defensive ults suck ass, but abilities like Warlocks soul bond that basically makes the team unkillable but requires good timing/positioning and has a long cool down are sick and the game needs more actual skill abilities like that.

[@measlesplease1266]

@@Wave-IIV I wouldn't mind Storm's ult if her buffs weren't so easy to switch between and could make such a difference at any time. Her ult isn't too bad if you can escape or see it coming.

[@measlesplease1266]

@@Wave-IIV the rest, I suggest just getting good and either block, don't get hit, or eliminate them while they're yelling like most people with a brain do. No need to turn Invincible for 12 seconds just to avoid something.

[@measlesplease1266]

@@copiagueeagle totally agree. That's the fix I wanna see. Everything else in this game has counters, but healer ults being invincibility for 12 seconds is sloppy. I hope they just want casuals to get good at the game so they can nerf the healing. Cause that would be a smart gameplan.

[@PawgPudding]

Nerf heals and then DPS becomes oppressive, then they are nerfed - are we really going to go down this path

[@bambampewpew32]

Nope, just let dps be able to kill things, along with supports, honestly just nerf some healing but leave the rest of the supp's kits alone, let them do damage and their utility etc.

[@key2shawn154]

@@bambampewpew32they already can they are just made that people can defend themselves from them

[@bambampewpew32]

@@key2shawn154 there is a little too much healing, and a LOT too much healing with supp ULTS specifically

[@ElixoYT]

And what happened to hero bans in comp being the solution to the problem you just mentioned at the start?

[@akaiYaMa9]

Triple support has a 46% winrate according to the tracker. 2-2-2 has highest and 1-3-2 is second. People are playing it and not even realizing that its the worst comp of the 3 but it feels strong because you don't die much but you also dont kill anything either.

[@drjamaymay405]

Pulling from OW history, goats was one of the hardest compositions to pull off. It required very precise timing with all 5 teammates. 2-2-2 is way easier to do, so it's not surprising that it has a higher win rate early on in a games lifecycle. If supports aren't touched, I'd expect 3x supps and goats to slowly creep up the charts over the next couple months.

[@bekomon]

As a support main I gotta admit, they are definitely the easiest role to play for the highest impact in a match. One of the biggest issue is definitely how fast some of the strongest ults also charge the fastest. Like Luna, Mantis, C&D, invis all build their Ults WAY too fast for how strong they are and also how solid their kits are. But Adam and jeff for example, while their ults are technically strong, they also build pretty slow in comparison and have a lot of counter play ( they are better designed imo). It would've also been interesting if they actually gave rocket a faster ult charge instead of a heal buff

[@SHLoony]

As a support main I do agree that they need to nerf supports ult charge I have had games where a C&D and Luna ulted almost every team fight. if they nerf the healing numbers that would be cool as long as it is not a global nerf and is more specific to the hero.

[@WizKid313]

This was a really well put together video. I urge everyone to watch and listen to the whole thing! it is really thought about and very informative from a knowledgable content creator. Very good video

[@brandenallen6639]

Great vid Sty! Strategist grandmaster player for S0 & S1, so what I'm about to say is speaking from that context only. But my main issue mostly revolves around the strength of ultimates. Outside of the very first fight (which is also one of the funnest imo), ults feel like they are up for every battle (especially strat ults). So so much of the fights feel like they come down to who is managing ult rotations better. Either no one dies due to strong strat ults or too many get wiped in a devastating duelist or tank ult and the fight is essentially just over. You hit it on it in your vid, but being wiped with something with little cue or wind-up and just getting deleted also doesn't feel super great. There is also the 'fun' of having to wait out both teams popping a big healing ult at the same time and having to wait 12 secs before anyone can really do anything (which is super unfun too). No clue how to solve that problem. But would much prefer them to tweak something with the ult strenghts and uptime versus making strategists weaker in general. So many strats have fun and powerful kits and I think that's why you see more players willing to play the role versus OW. I feel like a lot of players outside of professionals may just switch to a different role if they feel like strat is no longer fun to play (especially in the context of the whole class getting watered down to make dps more fun). Will be fun to see how this game shapes up over the coming seasons and what lessons they learn from the pitfalls OW fell into for sure. Really hope they stick with being the 'fun' hero shooter and less of the forced esport route OW took tho. It's worked really well for them so far, so hope to see them making that one of their core pillars. Fun for the players should always trump fun for the people watching the players imo.

[@__________o____________]

the one time I felt like uninstalling was if 3 of the enemy supports have invulnerable ults almost 30 second of the game being unplayable

[@TomahawkGaming-uh9ny]

God forbid there's actually insentive to play support in this game instead of going 6 dps

[@measlesplease1266]

That's not really the argument. Besides, the fact that you can get kills and have cool abilities as healers is the incentive. No one's playing healers cause they heal. Sorry to tell you, bro.

[@MagicalVaati]

This is such stupid logic and we’ve been through this already in Overwatch. If those 6 DPS were concerned with the meta comp, they wouldn’t be running 6 DPS lol. Sustain metas don’t make DPS want to play support. It just makes them want to play less. Maybe that sounds good if you’re a shortsighted support player, but that’s not a good thing for the future of the game.

[@YeetmanSkeetman]

I play healer because they heal btw. Really not sure where you got this idea from.

[@daddyethan]

Stalemating or nullifying the enemy team for a duration of time with no counterplay is not an incentive to play support, it's just an incentive for people who lack skill to play the game in general

[@ksh9037]

​@@measlesplease1266 well are you for supports getting more damage buffs and lower heals? Then folks like you would cry you're getting outdueled by supports

[@LFanimes333]

Answer: yes It’s not even a discussion

[@tyisamess]

You can’t ban the support meta away because your team only gets 2 bans and there are 5 supports with OP ults that make your team unkillable. It’s a fundamental design problem we are dealing with.

[@xfatoushe-6908]

Arguably this only applies to Luna. Mantis and C/D CAN get bursted through their ults and I’ve seen it happen multiple times (I play Mag and I exclusively save my ult for Cloak ult and watch her get 1 tapped by it)

[@drjamaymay405]

​@@xfatoushe-6908can, but I've never seen a mantis or C&D die in ult (I've seen C&D die during the first dash, but that's when they aren't affected by the healing much)

[@NoxFox577]

I wish people would stop trying to make this overwatch. The reason a lot of people left overwatch is because of the streamers opinions messing up balance and tilting it in one direction it’s annoying let everybody be over tuned so you can play whoever you want

[@Just-A-Bit]

It’s most important lesson it could learn Is to not have over-tuned supports (most important class to have balanced)

[@amadhatter3280]

IMO the best way to deal with this is too increase the ult charge for healing ults (or the amount healing gives to your ult charge either way is fine) & increase the ban slots from 2 to 3 per team (so 6 total). The extra 2 ban slots can be used for your Luna & Mantis then banned say C&D or Sue & at best you have 2 healing ults which won't kill 3 supports comps, but it'll lower it's power a lot. (Sidenote the number of ban slots should keep increasing because the more heroes released the more broken sh!t will be in the game so having more bans is a good idea in general).

[@metime27]

No because people either ban who is meta rather than who they actually struggle with, only way that works is if you go in with a team. We shouldn’t be penalised for healing huge amounts of damage…you also should learn how to play against heroes you struggle against rather than banning them because you can’t deal with it…

[@FLoWxXxWoLF]

In Gm3, triple support is way overrated. Moon knight, psylocke, black panther, iron fist and punisher counter this hard when they group up. Throw in buffed Storm as well. Then you realize Goats in MR's is possible, but not optimal. In most my games Luna is usually banned anyway.

[@PawgPudding]

It almos feels like metal ranks are the ones complaining and Id take one step further in that its people maining duelists that cant secure kills

[@lycanmark]

Ya the main problem here is metal ranks dps mains that don't know how to use their kit right and can't land a head shot to save their life. Once you get to the higher ranks they focus fire and kill stuff. Low ranks the dps will be hitting the same tank shild whole match and not kill anything and then blam healers because he keeps dying when out of place.

[@fanaria2469]

iron fist!?!?!

[@lunadead]

@@fanaria2469 yes, because strategist that isn't IW have barely any pressure outside of their respective ults. Although I would have them nerf hps on their ult since 150 to 165 hps is already massive enough for their ult as shown with Mantis and IW ult....Luna definitely needs a nerf to the duration and bring it down to 190 hps while the rest of defensive ult should never go beyond 150 hps while also increase their ult charge.

[@doroza2lol]

I have been saying this too. Like there are duelists like iron man who can pretty much secure team wipes. Not to mention when enemy team is popping ults, isnt it better to retreat? Like you have to stay there fighting the ults? This youtuber seems to me like he is not experienced enough to talk about meta.

[@Collato]

I just hope they don't add an anti/reduce healing ability on a character, they will become a must pick. Ana was cool in the beginning but in my opinion became the character that decided who won the team fight if Kiriko didn't cleanse it, I just hope Rivals doesn't make the same mistakes.

[@felleyan]

I played a quick mtch game with my friend the other day, we had a 222 team comp and the enemy team was 6 strategists and it was genuinely hell. We won in the end but man it was near impossible to kill anything and the game dragged out for ages. Absolutely miserable lol

[@parvizakbari-x8v]

typical OW player always noob

[@measlesplease1266]

The last couple of nights I have accidentally ended up with 3 supports on my team and gone on to win, pretty easily. I heard about the 3 support meta but didn't think it would work at lower elos, cause I assumed there was more to it. But no, just running around, healing, getting headshots occasionally. That's all it takes. In fact the game I was just in I struggled as hulk for most of it, just said screw it cause Adam Warlock at least has dps, and switched. Everything went way better.

[@chriselkins6771]

It is super easy. We got rolled one time by 5 supports and 1 Bucky. So we tried 5 supports 1 tank the next game and it was stupidly easy

[@felleyan]

@@parvizakbari-x8v I don’t even play overwatch lol

[@ramsey-x2u]

We ran against a 1-0-5/1-1-4 comp and steamrolled them to the last point and then we could not push it the rest of the way because they would not die and their spawn was right next to the point even if they did die, so one healer could just pop a "i cant die ult lmao" to stall until the team came out of spawn, or Adam/Rocket would keep reviving them. Looking at the scoreboard you would assume we won with the sheer difference in elims, but it was virtually impossible to push the convoy the rest of the way because they constantly had ults to stall the cart or force us away from it with Storm ult. Completely lamed us out of a win by spamming healer and storm ults and started gloating about it despite losing every single team fight. The healer mains got what they wanted and I won't be shocked if it kills the game if not addressed.

[@478Johnnyboy]

it feels like when you get a enemy to 20% or less health a good healer can have them back to full health and seconds and that just does not feel good to fight against.

[@williamedwards4151]

Feels pretty good to be the healer doing that. Ya know.

[@drjamaymay405]

​@@williamedwards4151 getting someone down to 20% HP is kinda hard, but healing them back to full is trivial. Because of the difficulty, it's not really that rewarding to heal someone to full in rivals.

[@colinmccarthy8764]

I feel like it’s a little counter intuitive to say that the gameplay is so casual based, but then care about competitive Metas. People want to play duelists, they are the most fun and unique. They will get a ton of run in QP and lower ranks. But now, because of their strength, people actually really want to play support now. I am a support main, and I had some fun and Kiriko, Moira, and Baptiste, but I was NEVER having as much as I am now. I think this is how you counter role queue, make supports very fun to play.

[@Reaper-J129]

I think hero bans should be what the devs look at when deciding what heroes need nerfs or changes. Hela and Hawkeye are just frustrating to play against because they only need to hit enemies with their primary to melt anything. Luna and C&D can heal a lot, easily building ult charge really quickly that they can then constantly use to stop any type of point capture

[@Raapnaap]

Honestly the issues with the game can be resolved with slight numbers tweaks and moving the ban system into platinum and above.

[@caleb_dume]

Healing ults should be 10+ seconds in length with lower healing output, or 5ish seconds with huge healing. Not both. End of story. Especially considering how fast they charge, Luna especially. I will say Invisible Woman’s ult feels like it’s going the right direction. It’s significantly shorter.

[@chriselkins6771]

I think a better solution is just make the healing charge ults less, because then those support ults can be win conditions still like many other ults, but they can't use them every fight

[@ramsey-x2u]

TF2 had something similar to this with the quickfix, but you manually had to switch targets to give them the healing and it only lasted 8 seconds. Whoever thought giving a similar effect to the entire team next to the healer or in an area they decide to place it might be braindead, or they did it on purpose to make people feel incentivized to play healers. An AOE mass heal that lasts 12 seconds has to be one of the worst balance decisions I've ever seen in any of these games. The quickfix wasn't even as strong as these ults and it was still banned in comp because of how toxic it was to competitive play because of it's insane sustain and uber build rate. If you put the quickfix in rivals and adjusted it's healing rate to match the higher healthpools, Luna, Mantis, and CD ult would still make the quick fix uber look laughably underpowered in comparison. Hell Luna's burst healing without ult is probably faster than the quickfix's normal healing rate.

[@lunadead]

IW, Mantis and CnD actually have the same amount of time on their ult but only IW and Mantis have less than 165 hps and is also CC able to get easily focus target while CnD is 220 hps with constant dot dmg and the only way to counter is to use one shot ults...like MK can kill shit in Mantis and IW ult easily but CnD and Luna just makes everything unkillable...Hell Capt ult with 100 hps is already strong defensive ult.

[@zo_leo8401]

I say you can nerf support ults when you get rid of the insta kill ults from the majority of the cast. We have storm ult, star lord, moon knight, squirrel girl, winter solider, punisher, Hela, spiderman, and psylocke all who have ults that can wipe really easily with almost no time to react from support. I read someone said that they are tired of the support ult blocking their ult. Well there are normally two supports so the good players try and force the other team to use their support ult and then you use your ult. So that may mean killing the support and then ulting the rest of the team or sacrificing one of your ults and let your teammate use theirs while the support is on cooldown. I dont think its healthy to have a press button and win with no drawbacks.

[@jaxsonburch-eo1vz]

The support ults are press a button and win. Luna, mantis, cloak, and invisible woman all just press a button and you will not die if you’re in it. It should be strong but you should be able to kill if through it still. Not easily, but the sustain is too strong.

[@HRVillas]

I think 3 supports is fun, they need to chain their ults in order to work out, and there is some counters to it, any oneshot ult can do the trick, ironman, magneto, scarlet witch, even moonknight and namor can deny mantis, luna and invs woman ults, and i just saw a match of this high elo spiderman diving with a venom and deleting the backline with 3 healers, i think supports are just fine, in any case, add "anti heals debuffs" to some dps, like scarlet witch, black widows and all those low pick rate champions so they become viable on the meta, like every second SW keeps her auto on a target they get 3% less healing every second and stacks, black widows ult you can add that denies 100% healing to every enemy hit by it, etc, dont nerf healers, add counterplays

[@TheBloodyNights]

I think certain ult charges could be looked at like Luna's for example, it lasts a bit too long for how strong it is. And it kind of feels like there is no counter play to them walking/dancing up to you and forcing you to run away, or just lose a team fight unless you have your own defensive ult. But...some DPS ults there is barely a counter to them, they just do them and usually half your team is wiped. Psylocke, Starlord, Storm etc just obliterate your back line. Sure there might be some things you can do, but usually in the midst of chaos you are probably going to get killed. Also I don't think this is actually a problem in Marvel Rivals to begin with. I feel like a 1 tank, 3 dps, and 2 healers as long as it's the right dps will shut down 3 tanks. Wolverine and Psylocke will shred through tanks super quickly for example, and then wait until a defensive ult is used to prevent them from dying from whatever and then wipe the supports with their ult that they are getting constantly with how much damage those tanks are soaking up. The third dps can focus on flanking supports, or be annoying like Iron man since none of the tanks can really deal with him. Winter Soldier is also pretty good at doing damage and finding picks with his hook grab, while doing solid damage to tanks. Also the supports on the 1/3/2 comp might have to deal with Venom or something, which probably won't survive getting thrashed by Wolverine, and Psylocke. Won't really have to deal with flankers like Black Panther, Spider-man, Iron Fist etc, so they can focus on keeping everyone alive easier. Tanks also don't really have massively game changer ults, while DPS do. Only thing I really agree with on this video is Moon Knight needs a fix. Before he even gets done saying The, in the The Moon Haunts You! You are dead, and tanks will probably be dead or near dead before they realize they are even in it. lol

[@jaydeeg3240]

If they can’t figure out a way to balance damage/healing you just put a 2 max strategist per team. I literally just played a diamond comp match where the enemy team had 3 strats and you just can’t kill them. It’s not fun, I hope they fix it soon

[@lunadead]

Or they can introduce a debuff depending on how many defensive ult is on the team. 2 defensive ult can be a net 15% healing decrease on defensive ult and 3 defensive ult or 2 defensive ult and a loki will gain a 30% healing decrease on defensive ult.

[@Just-A-Bit]

The rocket buff confused me, his healing wasn’t great before but it was easy to heal, it heals multiple people, the downside though was if your teammates are taking too much damage, they would die; in other words, it was easy heals but can still be punched through. Rocket was perfect to me before

[@Kittynelson4]

I think there’s three simple changes that they can bring to this game that would make it a lot more enjoyable in my opinion. 1.change one adjust how much healing is done as a percentage dependent on how many healers are on the team for example if you have just one healer on your team, you do 25% more healing for that solo healer. When you have two healers, it’s at a normal. But when you have three healers all the healers do 25% less healing. And if you have anything more than three, you would just stay at 25% less. This would stop them from being so oppressive to fight against. My second main change is reduce the amount of ultimate charge you get from healing teammates. Supports get their ultimates far too quick. The supports in this game have way too much to offer. They do good damage. They do good healing and a lot of them have really good self sustain/movement. I don’t feel like nerfing the supports themselves is the right way to go. I feel like nerfing their ultimate up time is a far better route to not punish people for playing support because you don’t want to discourage people from playing support in the game. 3. I think some of the displacement and CC abilities in the game are over tuned and just miserable to play against. Characters like Wolverine, Penny Parker, Luna Snow mantis, just name a few are not fun to play against especially as a tank. I think the tank roll in general could have a reduction in the amount of cc they receive. I personally just don’t like playing the tank roll because you just get pushed around all game. My first 50 hours of this game were playing tank and most of those hours were just Captain America because he’s my favorite MCU character but holy shit is it ever miserable to play against pennie Parker and Wolverine man. Those characters are far too forgiving in low ELO between Wolverine’s passive and penny Parker’s three second stun cool down and never having to reload. they make every match into a nightmare. Just a constant getting my ability to control my character taken away from me as a very un fun game mechanic.

[@RandomGaming114]

What if luna’s ult heals less the further her teammates are away from the center and luna gets less healing overtime to the point where she is actually killable? I think this introduces some kind of risk reward mechanic rather than just press a botton and rub it on your face

[@Royal.Grand.Majesty]

In games with a Rocket + Adam support combo, it feels so great. Both characters have resurrect potential, rocket has the best reliable group sustain healing while Adam has the best burst single target healing, both compliment each others weaknesses perfectly.

[@kjbzabrini768]

Main issue for me is that this is just a community problem. Gamers will min max the hell out of what they play these days, even if the sustain meta is nerfed into oblivion they'll find another way to make something cringe become extremely popular. The ban system seems to be the key to keeping the things the community can do in check, it seems, i hope the rivals devs don't give in to so much of the noise and keep doing their own thing. These devs at the very least are gamers with an understanding of their game unlike a certain other games' dev team.

[@BaconTaco412]

3 support comps actually have very low and currently falling winrates, its only percieved to be "meta" because its so god damn annoying. 2-2-2 and 1-3-2 are both largely outpreforming both of the common triple support comps 2-1-3 and 1-2-3.

[@mycelia_ow]

a proper 0-3-3 team is super broken though, it's a meta but a niche one requiring a lot of skiII. Against them you'd have to do something like 2-1-3 in that case. 2-2-2 doesn't work against it. If they use 3 supports you kinda need to as well.

[@BaconTaco412]

in the highest rank where 0-3-3 has been played which is currently diamond this season, it has an 18.18% win rate which is the second lowest out of all team comps that have been played. maybe pro players can make it work but you and your ranked teammates certainly cant. Even if that were the case though i find it to be extremely telling that players in gm and above havent played this comp (in the current season at least) if it was truly a comp which required a high level of skill as you claim it is I would expect to see players of higher skill gravitate towards it and they just havent. apparently theyre leaving this extremely powerful and highly skill dependant comp on the table for what reason exactly? these are the exact players who should benefit the most from running this in their games and yet they simply dont. ever.

[@lunadead]

@@BaconTaco412 it's just the fact that it's way too much work to do. Pros don't go for the hardest comp to use but the easiest comp to turn their brains off

[@BaconTaco412]

100% agree that this is THE most annoying comp in the game, but its far from "meta" thats all im trying to point out. when triple support runs into 2-2-2 or 1-3-2 in ranked its not often that triple support actually comes out on top it just makes the game worse for everyone involved for no good reason.

[@doroza2lol]

@@mycelia_ow "proper 0-3-3 team is super broken though" I disagre. It might be played by top players, but why would they risk playing this. The eHP is extremely low, making your team getting easily bursted or chipped. 3 supports is so overrated ICANT.

[@trogdor420]

Unrelated but last night I encountered a team holding the first choke on defence that was unstoppable. They were running a Punisher guarding the main choke, Moonknight guarding the flank, Mantis and Invisible Woman in the back and Thor & Cap' running around picking off anyone who dare try to get through. 2, 2, 2 teams will always be the bread and butter of hero shooters.

[@TheNorseWolf]

I don't see many issues with characters in the game. There are so many high-grade characters, plus seasonal changes are eventually coming to the game. Plus new characters being added in that will shake things up. I think bringing up such a not an important thing like this isn't worth it meta is not meta and meta is meta. Which means there is many characters with potential that they could make meta and break the mold. Its streamers and KZbinrs that make the meta and pro players. Marvel Rivals just started and yeah you could say there is a meta but a lot of heroes counter each other and benefit greatly from seasonal team ups to unique comps. Magneto Thor or Magneto Captain America is very strong combo from personal experience but it can be countered by Hulk and Strange or Hulk and Ironman since the dmg and defense they put it up rivals it.

[@thenewsatinbobcat5575]

I think if they just slow down support ult charge rate and potentially allow some abilities to negate some support ults, like Luna and Mantis, that would be a good start. One idea would be if Wolverine could grab Luna or Mantis out of their ults, or at least move them, or potentially hulks ultimates grab could cancel their ult, making that part of his ultimate more useful. As for invisible women, I don't get why her ultimate needs to slow enemies as well? I've both played and fought her, and either side, I don't get it. Her ultimate has constant healing and turns your team invisible from outside attacks. The mass slow just feels unnecessarily broken.

[@jonathannateesri5666]

This is a self correcting problem in sub diamond rank because almost everyone would rather play 3-4 dps than flex to an objectively better team comp

[@ミクミクビームー]

CnD's intangibility is insanely overtuned. It is impossible to control her defensive ult and the sustain it gives their team is insanely long for how quick you can get it.

[@dylanwolff741]

The amount of C&D mains rn is crazy because you don't have to be a good player to get crazy value. The ults for them, mantis, inv woman and luna are also annoying when they all serve the same purpose of being an overpowered AOE healing zone where it cancels 90% of enemy dmg/ults.

[@FrostyShock349]

"maximum pulse!"

[@Wave-IIV]

@@FrostyShock349 “Fear Magneto”

[@xfatoushe-6908]

@@Wave-IIVong i love watching Cloak finish her final ult dash only to get insta popped by 1 Magnet boy ult like get that shit outta here bruh 😂😂😂

[@jarodwilliamson6788]

The supports get they Ults so fast and all of them are OP Luna won’t get nerfed like that cause she is Asian and the CEO ❤ loves her crazy 😅

[@PraiseGodandJesus528]

Nope

[@SamWhite-pg7bj]

I think there’s a few ways to try and fix this, I just hope they actually fix it and balance it instead of bandaging it with a role queue like overwatch did

[@richardespinoza9989]

Does luna snow ultimate really need to last 12 seconds? Im ok with supportive ults being strong but man they last for what feels like forever. I think the huge AOE healing ultimates should last no more than 3-4 seconds.

[@michaelharper5693]

So fast

[@richardespinoza9989]

@ thats the idea, this forces the ultimates to now actually be used strategically instead of pressing a button and having a whole team being immortal for over 8-12 seconds. 3-4 seconds means there is counterplay to bait out the ultimates too and thus will also kill the sustain meta all at once.

[@YellowSpaceMarine]

She has to do the dance! How will they sell skins otherwise?

[@hariswasti3816]

It's only the support ults all of them are basically invincibility and to do anything you first have to make supports use their ults.

[@chriso7972]

It's not the ult dude, the support can move from neutral game back ult game easily dude to having flawless kits... I argue that most support have better kits than dps kits specially with self healing... I been arguing this for years in overwatch that a monopoly of self healing should result in support class have incomplete kits which means flaws

[@hariswasti3816]

@chriso7972 imo DPS kits are the most broken in the game same with tank kits then support kits but in terms of ult's supports are far superior.

[@wackywarrior001]

Goats only worked at the highest level of play , I was in lower tiers and constantly watched people try to go goat and fail, I would argue, the battle against goat, also killed the game , you can’t balance the game around the top 5-1% of players , and honestly if “ watching “ is what is boring , than if they do make a league , or high end play become stagnant they should implement rules just for those levels of play , not the entire game . I’m so glad hero bans aren’t in the lower ranks , and I don’t play any of those characters . Balancing games around the highest level of pay is not a good idea ever

[@drjamaymay405]

Most games balance for a variety of skill levels. (Yes it is possible) There is most certainly a way to make 3x supps worse at high level without moving the low elo meta.

[@GodWorksOut]

They are only playing what you think as meta at the highest levels. For the casuals, the majority of players, they play whatever they want

[@sonicguy1996]

Luna and Mantis?? Yes absolutely! C&D and Sue Storm?? No. Both of those have stationary ultimates, where as Luna and Mantis can move the fight anywhere they want with massive healing and an absurd duration. When C&D and Sue Storm do their ultimate it's "Oke we can't get near that", and in C&D's case they can still get killed while they deploy their ult. When Luna or even Mantis do their ult it's: "The next 12 seconds are gonna be pointless no matter what we do.". So imo if they do nerf strategist, hit Luna and Mantis's ult, those 2 are the biggest problem atm cause it completely halts the game.

[@KeiraLunar]

when it came to quick play with how sweaty it was i have witness this triple support hell with Mantis , Luna snow and Susan Storm and since it was clearly a premade stack the ult stacking was STUPID locking out doing any damage for 30 seconds

[@phatpat63]

Everyone knows when they're sick or when their car isn't running right. Very few people actually have the capacity to actually identify what's wrong and how to fix it, and it's no different with game development. For my 2 cents I'd point out that the game's built for fast paced kills and respawn to the point that you _need_ sustain to not just immediately die over and over. And if you NEED a healer, you need 2 lest your sole strategist be focused down and your whole team immediately collapse without any heals. A 3 strategist meta suggest to me that it's actually more likely that the overall level of damage in the game being too high might be the actual culprit; that much sustain isn't overkill against the level of damage the team's receiving, and the dps of the strategists themselves is so competitive with duelists that you're not punished enough for not having any duelists on your team. OW clearly flubbed this, but the way TF2 handled the problem was with much more limited healing, 12 man teams, and a counter system that harshly punished you for going too heavy into one thing with your comp. This is what flankers are supposed to be for. Rivals emulates that system without flankers being strong enough to shut down an inflated back line entirely (which isn't really a bad thing necessarily), and, more importantly, without having enough team slots to have dedicated flankers and snipers to punish a team that has too many squishys and also still have enough team members left to actually even have a front line fight at all. So, if you ask me, I think an expanded team size is going to be a vastly underrated solution to these kinds of problems. That, or the game's dive tanks could kill this meta in the crib as people adapt or with further buffs.

[@xargonanaris2516]

I hope instead of nerving everything into oblivion they add more counterplay to the game. Like Anti-Heal already exists (Dr. Strange has it), so maybe the next DPS focuses on applying anti-heal debuff? Then support ults cannot just be popped whenever but actually require awareness of the enemies anti-heal capabillities. So i would like for season 2 if the follwing happened:' - New hero: Blade (a little bit less damage than other melee dps but can apply anti-heal, would quite fit to him fighting vampires and so on) - Black Widow -> add pulsating anti-heal to ultimate (BW is the least played DPS in the game and her ult considered useless, with that change you could use it to counter luna making everyone immortal on point.) New Combo : Black Widow -> Venom, Hulk. Black Widow adds her anti-heal abilities to venoms right-click and hulks smash. Would be quite fun for the dive tanks I think and boost BW hopefully a little more. New Combo: Some DPS -> Jeff: Jeffs e cures debuff, including anti-heal. The reason for this is that anti-heal (without counter) is also unfun. So I would suggest having someone to remove it (maybe even also the next support champ). Jeff is the least played strategist and his sustain is lower than other strategists. So if player go for the counter they loose overall healing which is then the tradeoff.

[@Gryff782]

Rocket is fair to have a high healing amount because he can't immediately heal people on the opposite side of the map as him. He also has very low offensive pressure himself and his ult doesnt add any sustain since its Orisa bongo. If Brig had had bongo in Overwatch she wouldnt have been anywhere near as oppressive.

[@JM128-u8c]

1. Goats Meta can't be good considering most Vanguards besides Venom, Peni and Magneto with the team up ability are terrible. Magneto and Peni are defensive tanks that don't do that much damage besides traps. Venom is a dive tank. 2. Iron Fist and Spiderman are nuisance for supports give them a break. 3. Goats could work with off tanks like Iron Fist, Reed or Wolverine. Reed is fairely new, Wolverine lacks mobility and Iron Fist is a good brawler. It's just that they don't replace Vanguards as a whole. 4. Role Que is ok if you don't make it mandatory. It will likely destroy creativity of team up abilities and team compositions. 5. Hear me out Iron Man, Wanda, Loki (copying a strong ult) and Moon Knights' ults can take out Luna's ult and Invisible Woman's ult. Let the meta change so that people can finally pick Iron Man and Wanda for counterplay.

[@manuelgutierrez9675]

30% ult charge nerf at MINIMUM for healers it makes them have to think more when using them they cant just spam them out its absolutely ridicouless that a team fight lasts MINUTES because no one can die and it forces players to play certain characters because of it nerfing their ult charge makes adam warlock and rocket more viable since they are effected due to their ults not being invincible.

[@MM-me9vb]

I feel like it’s better in this game than OW. Because there are characters that actually make it harder to group up. Like moon knight. Let alone wolverines niche is to kidnap the tank and take them to your backline.

[@koko-hh2bq]

Same could be said back in OW, but that didn't work out. Wolverine can only kidnap one tank at a time, and Invisible Woman also hard counters him (he's also very prone to CC so Peni is unironically great against him too). Moon Knight loves when enemies are grouped, but enter a few dive tanks/brawl tanks with good mobility and he's kinda screwed.

[@iriya3227]

It's BS when people say you need support ults to counter dps ults, you can counter most DPS ults without needing ults. It's support ults that cannot be countered at all without certain heroes ults like ironman and that is ez to block or avoid. Supports are just ulting to push on CD and they charge 3 times faster than everyone else...

[@jijoux9161]

I don’t think this meta could apply to rivals honestly, not with how the current dps are. No matter how much healing you have, a psylocke can still melt a squishy in 1-2 sec, hawkeye can still oneshot almost anything and obliterate half a tank’s health. A raccooned punisher is still able to melt through pretty much every defensive ult, no less normal healing. Boosted iron man still melts. Will the sustain in the game is crazy, the damage a lot of characters do is still so insane i doubt you could see a goats meta in this environment, at least not without the addition of a character that would greatly push the meta towards that

[@EnPerkasa]

yes if u want to wins more games just runs 3sp/2dps/1tank but the tank must be either a mag/strange n sp u need 1 defensive sp especially luna, the others 2 is situational either u go for team up or 1 more defensive ulti.

[@xMrNight]

out of all the metas that can emerge, sustain meta is one of, if not the worst of them all btw I main Moon Knight and he does have a sound q when using his ultimate, it is ''The Moon haunts you!'', sometimes it simply doesn't go off or it gets overridden with some other sound I guess

[@Soramew]

He is saying (or I will say it) that you don't have time to prepare unlike strange or storm etc.

[@chriselkins6771]

Yeah you definitely have a second to get out with the sound, circle on the ground, cloud above your head. Especially since you know there's an MK, just spread out more, especially if he hasn't ulted in a while, and just be expecting it in tight chokes to counter it

[@xMrNight]

@ thing is, he raises his ankh and has to have clear view of the target area, the circle appears and the sound does go off more times than not, I myself find it pretty easy to avoid, maybe because I main MK myself, the correct play with the ult anyway is to ult and throw an ankh in the middle to trap one or two enemies inside AND the ult has an area but the hands do the damage randomly in that area, the ult is fine imo

[@SH1NK1R01]

This is just untrue and makes me think you haven’t played many games. The worst kind of meta is not sustain it’s the opposite, assassin/dive metas are the worst form of meta because unlike sustain where things have periods of invulnerability assassin metas have periods where you can play at all. Then the rest of the time you are in one shot range.

[@gameover_477]

I think Marvel Rivals has viable counterplay to goats unlike OW, there's Wolverine who loves to kidnap and slash up high health targets (percent damage does numbers to vanguards) and Moon Knight loves clumped up enemies. MR devs are acutely aware of OW and the consequences for role lock

[@Robert-hy3fq]

As a storm main since season 0, I have slowy but surely noticed and felt the increase in my ult being completely useless. I know what people are gonna say, oh you shouldn't be able to just get free kills on the supports Everytime you have your ult, And I agree. The problem is with there now being literally FOUR defense ults in the game already, my ult is basically only used to bait support ults. And having to rely on a magneto, or a moon knight or punisher to then follow up with their ult to ACTUALLY counter the defensive support ults is not plausible most of the time even in diamond, and that's if your teammates even pick them. Again, I'm not saying supports shouldn't feel strong and have strong ultimates as well, but it just feels like with the introduction of sue storm there is literally no value my ult is getting like ever, except for bating ults, which I know is value in itself. But like I said you can't plausibly rely on your team to follow up everytime. If anything I think a shorter duration on some of the defensive ultimates would make it feel a bit better to play against.

[@Noah_AWICB]

Left half of the Community "To ensure everyone has a fair match, we should have a role queue, this will account for solo queuers/duos which will be the most popular way to play" Right half of the Community "We don't want role queue, we want people to come up with strategies that aren't 2-2-2!" Left half "Okay, here's our strategy, we will counter your high burst damage with big health bars and lots of healing" Right half "Not like that!" Who cares how fun it is to watch? This game's eSport scene just isn't a big enough deal for that to matter. If people are not good enough at damage to burst down 275 hp, they shouldn't be on damage. People need to suck it up (Like strategists suck up getting targeted every single game) or implement role queue.

[@proof2864]

I noticed this last night when I was playing strange and thor. Before I would have no problem getting kills if I did everything right but now its become increasing impossible to kill someone when they have 3 supports. I usually average like 30 kills on strange and am a bit worse on thor but holy was it impossible to kill anyone with all the healing they always had.

[@Renna_FGC]

Ive lost so many matches the last couple days because everyone in plat is abusing triple support. Its absolutely dogwater

[@xfatoushe-6908]

If everyone is abusing it then doesn’t that mean your team is too ? And if you’re losing then isn’t it just a team diff ? Git gud brother.

[@Renna_FGC]

@ this man thought he ate, then liked his own comment lol.

[@xfatoushe-6908]

@@Renna_FGC I ain’t lie

[@Geo255420]

I do want them to learn from OW but I think they are good for not taking the crazy meta style. I have fun with Duelist. (Magik, Storm, IronMan.) Winning games I play Luna Snow and Loki. Had fun games with Magik but its harder. Win's are less. 2 Vanguard and 3 Strategist has been the crazy win comp.

[@Inspectornills]

hmmm, maybe that's the reason why theres so many duelist compared to vanguards/strategist, we really need to be opressive to the triple strategist strat with a ton of duelist

[@shinigami7226]

I hate support ults in this game. I wish there was more counter play to it. Maybe some kind of healing mitigation? Also I'm low diamond at the moment and it seems like people are not banning supports that often. I see more bans like storm, hulk, hela, even moon knight.

[@sebastianmichaelis564]

The worst feeling in marvel rivals right now is playing a dps and have your ult counter by cloak and dagger ult and then she uses it again the next fight when you the dps are at 50%-60% ult charge

[@Dex6909]

Yeah, there ult charges a little fast, but that's because they're actively always healing and applying damage. So it's not because they just have a fast charging ult It's because they're always actively doing something.

[@mr.tmoneybagz5988]

​@@Dex6909healing should give less ult charge then imo or just increase the energy needed for the ult.

[@FrostyShock349]

That just means your enemy is stationary if they're moving the cargo, fall back a bit and keep them stationary until the ult clears up, same with Rocket's ult, Warlock's ult you just have to hunt down where everyone respawns, Luna's and Mantis's either to have to pressure them into ulting too early or late.

[@mycelia_ow]

@@mr.tmoneybagz5988 buff healing output all around if you want to increase the ult requirement then.

[@lunadead]

@@mr.tmoneybagz5988 Issue is because both healing and dmg gives them ult charge...3.4k ult charge is too little for that compare to dps where for the same ult cost, they can only gain it by dmg because lemme tell you that Cap in s0 have the same ult charge but he gains it so slow and despite the ult cost being lowered, he still gain it more slower the CnD.

[@WynneL]

The only ones who need a nerf are Mantis and Luna. Maybe Luna's ult duration could go to 10 and Mantis can just have a bigger hitbox or something.

[@MrTheBigBang1]

I run into a 6 strategist team yesterday and belive it or not they win ... there was to mutch healing, it was almost impossible to kill someone outside of ult. And some strategist have good dmg so its kind of working

[@JaJatheJetplane]

Tbh the base kits of the supports is fine it's definitely ultimate generation thats the problem. Luna snow, cloak and dagger, and Mantis can generate their ultimates faster than everyone else in the game and completely control who is gonna win the teamfight. I think their ultimates being strong is fine but they shouldnt be able to get ult within 20 seconds into a teammfight. (Ive had games where cloak and dagger or a mantis were able to get their ultimate before the domination point was even available to cap)

[@CadaverJunky8]

Stop trying to meta-tweak this game and turn it into another miserable Overwatch clone. The game is fine right now aside from some bugs and performance issues.

[@remyrmxrmxpinville5049]

No its not

[@vampireking3341]

Please dont start with this so what if things are broken they are fun we dont want another overwatch, where everyone and everything gets nerfed till everything feels the same and its boring as all hell. Go back to overwatch if you find things to broken here. God forbid that things are fun.

[@vampireking3341]

Not only that it's a power fantasy game you know why it's successful it's because people don't feel like there hero is absolutely useless.

[@evannnn420]

just played the game for a couple days, gold 3 rn, i'll say this. Having immunity for 30-45 sec because of the triple support ults its BS. I cant do anything. They gotta do something

[@Krusnik66]

I would make everyone a type of DPS with different playstyles. Dualists and Vanguards could have their own healing Gimmick like medkits with a modest cooldown for heroes like Punisher, Black Widow, or Hawkeye that heal similarly to the ones found around maps or proper (heal out of combat) healing factors for heroes like Wolverine, Bucky, or Spiderman. Strategists could have their burst healing reduced and/or modified to act more like healing stations that do not outpace DPS.

[@erjohn5404]

For me as a starlord main they are perfectly fine

[@someGuy-kl7cb]

lol theres like...zero hope. not only did they release yet another transcendence ult, they also buffed cloak so her mini transcendence has enough room to just....cover point, aka, its now a transcendence. its like the devs didn't understand zen being unable to interact was a very intentional move. and lucio can move but his beat quickly falls off and only lasts a short amount of time for that clutch save, that AND they have lower healing to compensate for such INSANE burst healing. the only hope is they realize "oh god this is actually really bad for the game" and nerf them. i personally think luna's is the only one id say is designed well, with my only real issue is the obvious 12 seconds is kind of INSANE, but id argue its not that big of a deal, but mantis, cloak, and sue being able to use their abilities while immortal is just not right. they should give good healing, but NOT immortality levels.

[@scotyclash8647]

In my opinion luna, cloak, and mantis’s ults are way too powerful. You run all 3 you basically have 3 zenyatta ults which is just ridiculous

[@xfatoushe-6908]

Luna for sure. Mantis and Cloak CAN get killed during their ults and fairly easily at that ESP Mantis

[@GaymerXL]

Uh oh, is the honey moon starting to fade? Maybe, just maybe, all hero shooters need to be competitively balanced if people want to play it competitively.

[@TheShapingSickness]

I've now played rivals for like two weeks, since all my friends moved to rivals from overwatch. I still think overwatch is a superior product but rivals is fun too. However, I feel just like playing OW1 all the glaring balance issues from OW1 are back, and it's these types of issues that make the game just not fun at all. Specially the overpowered support heroes.

[@measlesplease1266]

I just thought of something while watching this video. What if the number of roles on your team affected something in game? Like too many supports increases their ability/ult cooldown times? I don't know if you'd need to do this for other roles but at least for supports it could keep them balanced if they aren't always using their abilities. Something like that should be a mechanic that can balance in a way that isn't unfun like nerfs or buffs can be.

[@chronosoul1837]

Marvel Rivals has the perfect opportunity to make the easiest solution to avoid Goats meta from dominating. They just need to increase the number of bans to 3 or even 4 per team.

[@xfatoushe-6908]

They already do brother. Wolverine. 2-2-2 meta has the highest win rate rn with 1-2-2 being the 2nd.

[@GolemOfMagic]

20 Marvel Characters I think would be super interesting to see come to Marvel Rivals. let me know your thoughts and what you think about this list. Madcap Doorman Scarecrow The Orb Doop Nimrod Dr. Voodoo(only bc I like him) Singularity(only bc I like her) Golem Daimon Hellstrom Apocalypse Gladiator Mystique( Or id prefer Raze Darkholme) Dormammu Ares Whiplash Sandman Nate Grey Mister E Mephisto Honorable mentions Arkon The Magnificent and White Tiger And lastly My personal favorite and would love to see Husk(X-Men)

[@shawnpolluch3510]

I think they just need to rework all the top supports with push button get massive giga healing. The giant aoe healing is not creative, has no counter play but worse of all no decision making. I think of Juno from overwatch (if I remember correctly) has a good heal/dmg giant beam from the sky the moves forward slowly. So you must aim it. Be patient for a good lined up team and enemies. Lots of little things to make a good ultimate and a great ultimate.

[@nebulista]

I've been wondering why people don't just ban Luna or Mantis even before the triple strategist meta.

[@mycelia_ow]

because that would mean allowing hela and hawkeye. who is worth more?

[@nebulista]

@@mycelia_ow But if they can't kill through Luna and Mantis ults, what's the threat? (Genuine question)

[@mycelia_ow]

@@nebulista Very good point, but answering anyway; every second that neither strategist has their ult or when they're sent back to spawn. them alone aren't enough unless everyone is playing perfectly.

[@Ramxenoc]

I think its fine I feel like this game has enough damage to outdo it. When I'm squirrel girl it is a lot harder to outdo 3 healers because any healing they get means I gotta hit an extra shot usually and that means I have to maintain perfect aim and predictions on where they're gonna move to but its what also makes it fun. If anything needs to change then make the Luna and Mantis ults take longer to get but right now I still don't think they're too OP most things in this game feel right