Are Tennis Servebots Going Extinct?

[@GiovanniGiorgio74]

Servebot still exists. They're just being outperformed by the returnbot.

[@benjaminpedersen9548]

Ha!

[@BrockMak]

Who would be classed as returnbots?

[@ethaneverett1092]

@@BrockMakAlex de minaur, djokovic and alcaraz are the first that comes to mind

[@Rory626]

What's a "returnbot" supposed to mean? A strong return game is how you are supposed to win tennis matches

[@mezutzizu]

​@@Rory626 the is no "supposed way" to win matches. being a servebot or returnbot is okay, a win is a win.

[@fikiskill]

I'm glad you said that Hurkacz isn't a serve bot. He plays a painful amount of tiebreaks but some of his rallies are great

[@ClimbingKeen]

Bro is the definition of a serve bot. Y’all are high. He can stroke his groundstrokes but he’s inconsistent throughout matches. He can’t move well and only stays in matches because of his serve

[@tennisoutlook7571]

Servebot hasn’t been clearly defined so a lot of people have different interpretations. To me a servebot is someone who has a dominant serve and needs to win the point off the serve or shortly thereafter. They usually have a limited baseline game and will either come to net or go for winners early in the rally to shorten the point. Under that criteria Hurkacz is not a servebot. That point I showed in the video vs Monfils is not something guys like Isner, Karlovic, or Opelka could pull off because it was extended and required great movement/defense and stamina.

[@dxfifa]

@@tennisoutlook7571 He's not as limited as the other servebots but his very poor break record and dominant serve means he's still completely reliant on his serve to beat any player who has the elite level serve to be in the top 100. Clearly a servebot. Your rally game doesn't have to be terrible to be a servebot, just a dominant first serve, very rarely broken or gets a break. Either your return OR rally game needs to be inadequate to not get breaks and that's enough to be a servebot

[@Noah55555]

​@@dxfifa"Your rally game doesn't have to be terrible to be a serve bot" That is one of the main criteria that people use to determine a serve bot. You don't get to make up your own criteria here.

[@mfzoom5401]

@@Noah55555 Hubi can’t hit a FH to save his life, I’d say that equates to poor ground strokes.

[@stapiscz1478]

i think the fact that servebots are going extinct is because the courts are being slower and carpet courts are banned from atp events so there are just slower surfaces that helps other players to receive those big serves

[@ilijazivkovic5640]

Just chech your source man.Courts are faster than before not slower

[@amsd1231]

​@@ilijazivkovic5640 kzbin.info/www/bejne/fqupmot_qLukgtEsi=1E0radvh_DXz7k_8 Former number 1 and Miami open director & former no.4 saying the courts have gotten slower.

[@amsd1231]

​@@ilijazivkovic5640 kzbin.info/www/bejne/fqupmot_qLukgtEsi=1E0radvh_DXz7k_8 US Open winner/Former no.1 & Former no.4/Miami open director saying the courts have gotten slower

[@amsd1231]

@@ilijazivkovic5640 YT keeps deleting my comment because there's a link in it but I'm gonna post until it sticks. Roddick and Blake(Former no.1 & no.4) telling you that surfaces have indeed slowed down. kzbin.info/www/bejne/fqupmot_qLukgtEsi=iU-wSO-V3Dwl6XaB&t=145

[@leumas0412]

@@ilijazivkovic5640 I really don't think so. Do you have any source that they've made some courts faster? Because I have only heard about slowering courts down

[@GreekPatriot07]

Great video with enjoyable commentary for both involved and new fans, on a topic that is being hidden by the long baseline rallies of today. Glad you made this exist. I'd also like to add Mpetshi Perricard atp164 who plays lots of tiebreaks and has multiple matches with 20+ aces but more into the Hurkacz-like category. Keep up these classy videos!

[@tennisoutlook7571]

Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for watching.

[@hsy2448]

There are less serve bots because everyone needs to be able to rally to stay in the top 10, some tall guys like Christopher Eubanks or Shelton aren’t servebots because they are big hitters, so they aren’t as boring to watch, or blatantly slow.

[@huzcer]

Confidentially Eubanks and Shelton are the two worst returners in the Top 50 by return points won. They have servebot return stats that's for sure.

[@whyyouhaden1320]

Forget the tennis man, the video was really well made!

[@tennisoutlook7571]

Appreciate it. Thanks for watching.

[@johnlicciardello2389]

Also, they have been dramatically slowing the court speeds since the 90s (because Sampras was too dominant). They slowed the courts again in the 2000s to Fed and Nadal could thrive. We would see more big serves if courts were not so slow (Indian Wells is much slower than the old clay)

[@patrickbateman1660]

It's crazy how slow some hardcourts are even some grass courts. Wimbledon plays like a hardcourt. US open plays like clay it's so slow. Now the AO is slowing down again.

[@mikeybee98]

How does this happen? How do you "slow down" a court?

[@spinshotballmachine]

@@mikeybee98 adding sand to the cement mix is the standard way, adds more friction to the court thus slowing down the ball.

[@Rory626]

How can you slow grass down?

[@spinshotballmachine]

@@Rory626 the type of grass, how much rye grass vs barley grass for example

[@alpinescope4441]

I wouldn't consider Sam Querrey a servebot. Servebots are characterized by not only big serves but also the fact they win most of their sets by tiebreaks. Querrey actually had a quite strong baseline game. He won plenty of sets without getting into a tiebreak.

[@brandonm8901]

Querrey won an average of 0.86 return games per set, and lost an average of 0.76 service games per set over his career. He may have been able to win sets without tiebreaks but they weren't often, and similarly he wouldn't often lose sets without going to a tiebreak.

[@alpinescope4441]

Considering at the top pro level typically one break determines a set, winning 0.86 return games per set is not too shabby. Querrey wins 17% return games, compared to Isner's 10% and Hurkacz's 18%. So if the poster doesn't think Hurkacz is a servebot, neither should be Querrey.

[@brandonm8901]

@@alpinescope4441 Simply taking the % of return games won isn't a great metric as it is dependent on the distribution of opponents and surfaces the player plays, which is why I used both service games lost compared to return games won to normalise it. I guess it depends on how loosely you want to define serve-bot. I would call Querrey a serve bot as I would with players like Anderson. Hurkacz I didn't used to but I am starting to consider him one. You are right that the poster should probably consider Querrey and Hurkacz the same as their stats are similar

[@Thomascloke123]

sam querrey was deffo a serve bot had a big serve that was it🤣🤣

[@superMarwin12345]

Damm´s screaming celebrations are funny as hell hahaha

[@toto_rf95]

Isner was great, he beat Djokovic at Indian Wells 2012 in an amazing match. Djokovic was arguably at his peak then, he had just completed his legendary 2011 season and won the classic 2012 AO. So that match at Indian Wells does not get talked about enough. Isner also beat Fed in Paris-Bercy 2015 and gave Fed a good match at the US Open that year when Fed was beating up everyone until the final against Djokovic.

[@info781]

He is a good guy, but he was a serve bot, he could not return.

[@Rory626]

Isner was the most boring player to watch I've ever seen. No variety

[@SamsMovies]

7:38 "he could be an up and coming serve bot" love that. 🤣

[@Emanuelpana97]

You forgot mbetshi perricard - he going to be the next up and comer serve bot for the next decade

[@Ninja-gt3zi]

He fell off where is he

[@alpinescope4441]

To define a "servebot", I think one can just look at players service game and return game winning percentages. Here are some players stats - Karlovic 92%, 9% (he won 92% of his service games and only 9% of his return games over his career); Isner 92%, 10%; Raonic 91%, 16%; Kyrgios 89%, 16%; Federer 89%, 27%; Djokovic 86%, 32%; Hurkacz 86%, 18%; Querrey 85%, 17%. So, where should we draw the line? It seems that a reasonable cut is (Service Game Win% >= 90% AND Return Game Win%

[@Rory626]

Worth looking at average rally lengths for points won too I'd say? The shorter the rally, the more servebot

[@jeremyd5850]

I feel like Ben Shelton needs to become a serve bot. His serve is great but he likes to rally. Instead of going for a first serve ace he does body serves

[@tomk5238]

its more like every one is good at serves now so people who are only good at serving dont cut it.

[@Funkytrip73]

I miss the reasoning behind the semi-extinction event. Is it because players start really far behind the baseline these days? Because they have become better returners? Racket evolution? Or just an anomaly in which a lot of serve bots happen to retire at the same time?

[@tennisoutlook7571]

I didn’t really get into it and I don’t think there is one distinct reason for the decline in servebots. All the reasons you stated likely make up for why there aren’t as many now.

[@neutronalchemist3241]

Slower surfaces and balls played a role also.

[@mightbefire]

7:25 Is this repeatable? Was it on purpose? Pretty amazing.

[@tennisoutlook7571]

Very rare lucky shot. Was not on purpose. I think he framed the serve.

[@mightbefire]

@@tennisoutlook7571 yes, it has to be a frame, but it almost looked like it wasn't

[@PandaFan2443]

​@@mightbefire I've played someone that does something similar. Obviously not as good, but they would consistently do similar looking (but much slower) serves.

[@mat3327]

Shelton?

[@johnlicciardello2389]

Martin Damm Jr is one to watch. Has an amazing serve and had an ok run at Miami Open

[@lorenzop3982]

Shelton, Zverev Berrettini Fritz, Landaluce, Opelka Hurkacz are still here

[@lorenzop3982]

Kyrgios

[@mountaineersportsandgaming2688]

Awesome video! I don’t know how you only have 2k subs and views

[@lucasfavre1282]

Good video. Would def call out Huesler and Giovanni Mpetshi Perricard though

[@iTenn7]

Huesler ?

[@850twalker]

Never thought of Anderson as a servebot. I'll have to take a closer look

[@sinkso]

I like the thumbnail 😂

[@felipecabrera511]

You forgot to mention Nicolas Jarry, though he’s been progressively deviating from the stereotypical servebot during the last years since getting reinstated into the ATP Tour

[@elektrik_exekutioner6822]

Jarry isn't a servebot.

[@eawesomest]

Borna Gojo is a true serve bot. Injured right now but he’ll come back.

[@gabrielemm6313]

i am following damm since US open 2023 when he got the Wild card against Delbonis and he was 399th in the world, the first thing i noticed was his serve and yeah that's legendary

[@NinjaBoy606]

24-22 tiebreaker is absurd 😭😭

[@chunkyboysoccer]

Is Shelton not a serve bot? I figured he was. The serve is like his best asset.

[@jhho7022]

Cressy is not a serve bot he is a serve and volleyer. He does not hit a crazy amount of aces just charges the net on serves and returns.

[@1904forever]

damm serve is crazy, the next isner in the tour

[@markaven5249]

One of these days a 7 foot 5 guy that can do everything will come along

[@davemillard411]

You're missing a few, Chip Hooper, even Ivanisavic...

[@benetttoth9219]

I think we have a contender from France, Giovanni Mpetshi Perricard is definitely a servebot

[@andrewrumayar3103]

Many years in the 90s and early 00s where the game was 😴 when players like Ivanisevic and Safin played.

[@diggeriza5757]

you didnt mention Antoine Bellier, that guy dont know a thing about a rally, only serving

[@raymisonraynel9138]

lol where’s Sam Groth

[@MarcSalamina-jf7le]

Where is Ben Shelton?

[@amsd1231]

Hey can you tell me why I can't post comments on this video? Are you deleting them?

[@tennisoutlook7571]

I am responding to a comment you posted, so it looks like you can. I don’t delete comments.

[@amsd1231]

@@tennisoutlook7571 I've been trying to reply to one of the comments below and it's being deleted every time. If you're not deleting them then I guess it's google.

[@tennisoutlook7571]

That’s odd. Yeah it has to be Google cause I don’t delete anything.

[@mightbefire]

Hurkacz is this generation's Berdych - not a servebot, but not much better to look at

[@Nani-du9ym]

My brother in Christ Berdych had some of the cleanest technique of all time. Beautiful attacking game

[@lukepatten6028]

Sorry? Berdych was a pleasure to watch. Learn the sport

[@fikiskill]

Completely different personality tho

[@mightbefire]

@@lukepatten6028 I'll keep trying. I'm learning to love watching paint dry too. It's going alright.

[@ollie5399]

Agree with the comparison to Berdych in terms of type of play. Interesting to hear some other comparisons between this gen and previous gen... De Minaur/Nishikori etc. Any ideas?

[@Dzmcgee]

Eubanks not a servebot?

[@Ninja-gt3zi]

Has that backhand

[@matthewwalsh974]

Idk.. I think it's way too effective to ever die completely. Faster courts still exist. Damn I miss Karlovic.. That guy was awesome to watch. Love his unique game. Massive serves, absolute cudgel of a forehand, slice backhands and all net approaches❤

[@justindubin5166]

Cressy serve is nutty

[@90sshuffle]

Was Sampras a servebot...I think not

[@info781]

Pete had a great return game, he had everything.

[@Krwler]

If you have serve bot potential why would you engage in brutal rallies?

[@Kikoo1121]

You still have cressy & damm that are servebot

[@thebigmonstaandy6644]

Creesy is not a serve bot : he has great volleys but his serve in not great

[@youngsuit]

Not extinct just evolving

[@nelsonagholor1097]

Just wanted to throw out a couple Leandro Reidi Rinderknech Lucas Pouille Otto Virtanen Huesler Edit; Hazem Naw

[@treybourgeois2459]

Pouille?!😂

[@jaccorubens2211]

Rinderknech, Huesler and Virtanen maybe. Pouille and Riedi are the opposite of serve bots tho haha

[@nelsonagholor1097]

@@jaccorubens2211 I feel like pouille became a serve bot. I’ve watched his last like 20 matches and he pretty much just serves and volleys and hits great placed serves. Usually hits double digits aces. Same thing with Riedi. Rarely see points on serve going beyond 2-3 shots and almost always had double digit aces

[@nelsonagholor1097]

@@jaccorubens2211 I would say Huesler definitely is and virtanen has some skills and I’ve seen him play really well in longer rallies

[@РоманТригуб-ь2ц]

Forgot Giovanni Mpetshi-Perricard. He serves better then Damm.

[@larryjablinski3570]

I think its more that there are less great survers today than anything else. If you out a prime raonic, isner, tomas berdych etc in todays era they would be laughing

[@legija-hz2qs]

Yes they are cause the shoulders can not keep up with the rhythm.

[@emvilegaspi3811]

We literally need more serve bots, and this video does them justice

[@jandroid33]

Once I saw a replay of serve bot vs serve bot, and it was great because I could immediately skip to the inevitable tie breaks, so I saved some time!

[@dn-anonymous]

We need one or two in the mix, just for the matchup. More than that, no thanks.

[@baguettedepain3975]

No.

[@dmitryishtuganov1942]

Tennis is losing part of entertainment without servebots. These players were the ones who could pull an upset or at least force a close match against a higher ranked opponent

[@johnhawk4162]

Damm's celebration against Kukushkin was really cringe ngl

[@justinsaehoon]

Ben Shelton?

[@tennisoutlook7571]

Ben Shelton has a big serve and low break rate but is not a servebot. He has a good baseline game and wins a lot of points with his power shots from the baseline.

[@FBLB-cv7qn]

Jarry maybe ?

[@nacho_a24]

He is just a big hitter, with an amazing forehand btw

[@thebigmonstaandy6644]

Creesy is not a serve bot : he has great volleys but his serve in not great

[@treybourgeois2459]

Have you ever watched tennis?

[@thebigmonstaandy6644]

@@treybourgeois2459 yes. of caurse. i even played very well. Creesy has very low 1st % and to many double faults : if you make 20 aces and 15 double faults and have only 55 % of 1st serve, than is your serve is not great.

[@elektrik_exekutioner6822]

Querrey wasn't a servebot.

[@wadecarroll3572]

Hurkacz is 100% a servebot

[@saberdiamond3425]

Completely agree. If your game is more than 75% dependent on serve, you’re a serve bot. No hate to him, but it’s just the truth

[@mountain_bikeer8427]

you forgot cressy

[@mountain_bikeer8427]

sorry i didnt see the last part

[@asantesamuel13]

That obnoxious screaming by Damm is gonna lose him a lot of fans. I like big servers but he’s a tool for that ridiculous celebration. It’s like a college player bro on steroids.

[@isaac6260]

bublik a servebot?

[@tennisoutlook7571]

Really great serve but he is a good baseline player, able to hit any shot while playing long rallies. He is also very entertaining. For those reasons he is not a servebot in my opinion.

[@Megarenegade666]

Anderson is not servebot, he is great in rally.

[@playmakergabe]

Said no one ever

[@danguee1]

Only 2 of the top 15 servebots of all time are still playing - Berretini and Hurcasz. But, hang on - if the ATP stats go back 40 years, isn't 2/15 a reasonably high representation for this era? I don't think they're dying out... By they way, the stats don't lie: Karlovic is the greatest server of all time by a substantial margin

[@maniac_q]

Mpeshi Pericard

[@24Xesus]

thanks for not mentioning Ben Shelton. he’s far too talented to be considered one of the

[@doctrinehigh]

Opelka vs Isner: The most boring tennis match ever.

[@maniac_q]

Diallo

[@Mavert83]

I admit, It’s a workout playing a tall power server, but it’s part of the game. Serve is 60-70% of the game as well as the return. It is what it is 🥲