Are The Blue Jays A *CHEAP* Organization?| WHY Are They Not Signing Free Agents? | Blue Jays Rumours

[@lockyer72]

If its another off season with no significant moves, i won't bother watching a single game next season

[@Dulcimerist]

The front office doesn't spend their payroll wisely. They get a good amount of salary budget.

[@gcanada3005]

The Jays have had 5 top 10 payrolls in 25 years. Never once top 6. Rogers has cried poor and run this huge market like a small team. Worst ownership group in the MLB. Not at all interested in spending to win. I've been claiming for 2 years Vladdy and Bo will not be resigned. Rogers wanted a rebuild and cutting payroll in half after 2025. Looks like I was correct. It's what Rogers has always done. If you thought offers to Ohtani and Soto were legitimate, you haven't been paying attention

[@PaulMoore-og3hy]

No there is nooo one cheaper than the Tigers cheap skates

[@Dulcimerist]

@@gcanada3005 Meanwhile, Rogers Sports & Entertainment, the division that owns the Blue Jays, doubled their ownership stake in Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment to 75%. Now they're the majority owner for the Leafs, Raptors, Argonauts, Toronto FC in MLS, Marlies, and the junior teams for the Raptors and MLS team. That purchase was $4.7 billion. The deal officially closes in mid 2025.

[@Dulcimerist]

@@PaulMoore-og3hy Thankfully the Tigers have done well in drafting, stocking, and developing their farm system so that they have good players under team control. The Blue Jays haven't done this. The Tigers really got burned on the final few years of the Miggy contract, so they might be hesitant to offer long term contracts like that. The Baez contract looks bad, too. I always thought the A's and Rays were the cheapskates of MLB.

[@logancampbell02]

It's pretty tough to call a😂 team with a top ten payroll in baseball cheap. This team has tons of money, they're just awful at building a baseball team. #fireshatkins should be every Jay's fans top hashtag in 2025.

[@teambigv]

Forget a cap the greedy players won't go for it... that's right I said greedy players. I believe adding an extra deterrent to going over the threshold I suggest taking away 2 draft picks away beyond losing any pick to the competitive balance. A salary floor should be put in for the owners at $100 mil in player salaries every year. I think that's a good compromise to avoid a work stoppage. No Toronto isn't cheap the money spent is poorly managed is the issue. I believe Ernie Clement is s keeper I also believed Spencer Horowitz was too, but they dealt him off for a light hitting 2nd baseman making way more than he should. Terrible move

[@gcanada3005]

Why would Toronto want a cap. It's the third largest market, largest single team market. With the highest TV and radio ratings in the MLB. First team to put 4 million fans in a season. They get Canadian dollar equalization payments. Just because Rogers doesn't care about winning, doesn't mean there should be a cap. When the Jays won 2 championships they had the top payroll in the MLB. That was different owners

[@teambigv]

@gcanada3005 I wasn't thinking about the Jays. I can see a work stoppage coming and it could be a lengthy one. It's just an idea that could possibly prevent one.

[@EmotionallyExhausted]

They're making a mountain of cash on Sportsnet subscriptions, disgusting hot dogs, incredibly ugly jerseys, omnipresent advertising, obscenely inflated liquor sales, and the novelty of the renovations. Every decision that Rogers makes is predicated on the belief that the fans are more interested in "the experience" than a winning team. Are they "cheap"? Well, they were ninth overall of thirty teams, and second in their division in payroll in 2024. By that measure, no. Do they over-spend when money is the only viable option to improve the team? Nope. Their budget is designed to field a passable team that keeps the money coming in. It's not meant or expected to facilitate winning. Winning would be a _bonus_ . It is not an _objective_ , and never will be with corporate ownership.

[@johnmorris8621]

In 2016 this organization chose to not compete. Said they needed to rebuild and raised the ticket prices (at least) twice between 2017 and 2020. That sound pretty cheap to me. This reaching out to the highest profile players in FA in not a cheap act on its own but ultimately I believe it comes from the same insecurity. I can't help but see the 2025 off season being much like 2016 if they can't get their house in order with the likes of Guerrero and Bichette. If that occurs, will we (as fans) be told the team needs another of these "can't compete" windows? How many times will ticket prices increase this time around?

[@TheTraderGuy]

Cheap? Probably not. Garbage? Certainly yes.

[@jrod9748]

No, not re signing all of those guys, is cheapness...

[@edhowell6759]

Think you hit the nail on the head, we have two people with Shapiro and Atkins that don’t know how to value players, have no clue how to allocate money where it needs to go, and have done so many players wrong over the last 9 years that agents and players are avoiding Toronto due to these two guys

[@SuperWeier]

No taxes are killing the Blue jays Nothing head office can do.

[@JimmyK-r2u]

Different kinds of cheap. Arbitration, extensions make players not want to come here. It is atkins and shapiro. They are not baseball people. Just accountants.

[@Trigger200284]

it's taxes... plain and simple. You can deny it all you want, but when 50% of your income goes to taxes and then another 15 to sales tax, it's a a giant red flag. Not to mention that Toronto is a terrible city from a layout, traffic and governance point of view. Any agent that convinced a player to sign there would be fired once the player spent a few weeks in that concrete dumpster fire of a city.

[@scottwilliamson2324]

They aren’t cheap, they allocate funds incorrectly due to not evaluating talent correctly

[@The_Zilli]

im curious what the payroll ranking would be once you factor in inflation...

[@eshep71]

If Soto signed for that price here, it would be like every Canadian giving him 30 bucks lol just shy a billion dollars.

[@Warren-BCBOY]

There's absolutely no way the Canadian dollar will ever compete with the American dollar. That has to be reflected in the contracts.

[@The_Zilli]

@@Warren-BCBOY 2007 was the last time the Canadian Dollar was on par with the USD. It has happened before but it wont happen anytime soon given what has transpired in the country since a certain idiot has been in power...

[@TheOgieone]

Brayden is like a ray of sunshine

[@LockedOnBlueJays]

Yea I’m a ray of sunshine 😂

[@DCswings00]

What do we feel about 1 year of Scherzer/Verlander or both and Santander? They would be a fraction of what they would’ve spent on Burns or Fried and would at least ensure workhorse veteran presence out of all 5 starters

[@LockedOnBlueJays]

If Ross truly wants to build a team that will compete this year, a verlander/scherzer type would carry very low risk so it would be hard not to get on board with that. With Santander they most likely are looking at a 3-5 year contract, but there’s no denying that he would immediately make this team better

[@paulduffy8774]

there beer is not cheat and they sell a lot of beer cause there team is not worth watching

[@eshep71]

My saving grace for this off-season is my new found understanding of WAR. I never considered it before, but WAR is like a pie. Its whole. It's literally a Tug o WAR if you will. I googled how much WAR total is accumulated each year, and that number is 1000. In the context of WAR each team starts with 52 wins. (Replacement level) The final 1000wins are split between the players based on their production. How much pie do they take? (33 per team is the average) In 2023 we had 32war in the lineup and 15 pitching. 47 total. Last year, 27war for the lineup (literally only bo's production was missing) and 0.1 for the pitching. Well below average share. The lineup isn't our problem as much as we all think. Not even close (surprised me) Part of me thinks they are building based on information similar to this. (Im sure they have their own 'WAR' version). Thats the inly way Gimenez makes sense. A free bundle of Value. For context, Last year, Yankees had 30war from the lineup and 17 from the pitching.. the same 47 war share we had the previous 2 years. (Weirdly, and a good counter argument for WAR, is that we had 50 total in 2021 and missed the playoffs. 30lineup/20 pitching) I can see the arguement they may have for the lineup being 'fixed' with a Bo rebound and Gimenez addition, tho only a fool would be comfortable without one more solid bat, at least. Based in this info, I want Bregman now because he puts up 4war minimum. Forget santander and his uncertainty. (Or make him the second addition) We need to start coveting guys like Yates, Scott and basically any pitcher who can produce positive results in the rotation to push YRod back. Thank god the bullpen is literally the easiest part of a team to fix, especially when it just went first to worst.. that's unnatural. I know the numbers aren't fun to watch and the arguement of oWAR vs dWAR can muddle it's value, but I'm an accountant, so I'll always have a respect for the math lol (And the 5 war we were missing from Bo, was all oWAR, the good stuff)

[@eshep71]

Other playoff team WAR totals.. Cleveland 32, Detroit 34, KC 41 Houston 43 NY 47 and Baltimore 42. Phi 48, Atl 46, nym 35, Mil 42, LAD 46 (only 6 pitching WAR), SD 43 and Ari 40 (also only 6 pitching WAR) Doesn't look hopeless at all. This same core had a higher WAR share in 2023 than any team has in 2024. Just need to pitch better. That's all.

[@Raptorsovereverything]

they are. u guys are out of ur mind vlad is not worth 500mil

[@jaysfan1236]

I really hope Edward rogers doesn’t resign Shatkins. I’m going to guess once rogers centre is completed, Shatkins will leave and jays will finally spend with new management 2026

[@Jello108]

Cheap i don't know.. although I didn't necessarily like hearing the jays had a separate number they'd spend for layers like ohtani or Soto as far as payroll goes but if they don't get those players their payroll would stay the same basically. Which to be fair I think is usually a top 10 payroll in baseball. I think the Front office is just stubborn and naive in their assessment of talent.. theyll have a certain number for a player based on their own evaluation and won't budge of it at all. But there's a lot more involved with not getting players also. Farm system sucks the team has sucked the last 2 years. They don't resign or seem to value homegrown talent vladdy. There is a bit of a tax issue with being more tax in Canada. A recent lawsuit against CRA by Donaldson and I believe Russell Martin doesn't help the tax conversation... there's many many reasons that are in play outside of the front office just being straight garbage their view on a winning team doesn't work.. the just total buy in to run prevention. Sacrificing hitting.

[@Jello108]

The fact that bluejays spring facility is in Florida was a disadvantage for Corbin burnes he lives in Arizona has a young family... and their spring facility is in Arizona he gets an extra 2 months of the season at home with his young family. I belive if more players had that option playing their spring season where they play the actual season having more time at home they would take it over a little bit more money.

[@keithleach1880]

I think the moneys there its just how they spend it and on who.Not sighning Vladdy looks bad to anyone including people that may have wanted to come here.Exept for the guy in charge.How long are we gonna put up with his mismanagement???????????

[@harryensley]

Cheap? No, indecisive and foolish. If they wanted bargains on Vladdy and Bo, they should of signed them years ago. Are they too passive on free agents? Likely. They need to change out the entire front office.

[@andrewwong4725]

Who invented copper wire? Two Blue Jay executives fighting over a penny!!!!

[@MikeStarr-lw5ol]

What if we were to sign Santander and sign Bregman and get guys like that, that would be nice, I really hope they can get someone good but I dont know why anyone doesnt want to sign here. I hate to think its all because Vladdy isnt extended for the future. Come on we got a good fanbase, we got good history with the 1992, 93 seasons.I would like to see another one in my lifetime and more importantly I would like to see the younger fans to experience that who werent born yet when those world series were won.

[@lockyer72]

It's because of the incompetent management, the Jays being a last place team, a horrible farm system, and roster construction sucks. Many questionable moves with their players....I could go on and on

[@eshep71]

@@lockyer72 the farm system would be ranked low-middle (15-20) if Ricky and OMart weren't dropped 50+ spots to end last year. I get why they were, but that doesn't discount them in any way other than rankings that don't really mean a thing. Their drop has nothing to do with their play and Only time will tell, but if both continue their trajectory, then this FO is probably taking undeserved heat in that regard. I'm not suggesting it's a great system. But we did just come off a half decade of playoff baseball where plenty of prospects were moved for pieces. Most great trades. There's only one LA, so it's not embarrassing to get depleted every so often

[@RandyJFuerst]

Only team in Canada they do not give a SHIT they know we will still watch COMPLETE HORSESHIT Hope 4 da BEST

[@gcanada3005]

"Consistently top 10", lmao check out Cots baseball contracts. The jays have had 5 top 10 payrolls in 25 years, never once top 6. Do some research before you speak

[@LockedOnBlueJays]

We’re trying to focus on the Ross Atkins era when we do our breakdowns, because that’s who is currently in management. Using the history of what he has done rather than what other GMs have

[@gcanada3005]

@@LockedOnBlueJays What difference does it make on who the GM is if there is a 25 year history of ownership pulling the rug out. I hated JP, told him so personally. He didn't like me either. When he left he said something prophetic, "if you want to play with the big boys, you have to spend". Until that changes nothing will. It hasn't changed. A 10,10,9,7&7 in payroll in the last 25 years notwithstanding. If you thought offers to Ohtani or Soto were legitimate you really haven't been paying attention. The Jays would have had to be a top 2 team in payroll for a decade to put a team around either. That will never happen. Ignoring history of Rogers ownership, means you will never comprehend what goes on today

[@gcanada3005]

I forgot to mention when the Jays won 2 championships they had the highest payroll in the MLB. That was different owners

[@MikeStarr-lw5ol]

I dont know if cheap is the right word, they are just not good at convincing anyone to stay or anyone to come to play for the Blue Jays. I wonder if they are going to trade Bichette and put Giminez at SS in order to get anyone.

[@gcanada3005]

What is wrong with you people. 5 top 10 payrolls in 25 years, never once top 6 makes you cheap. Those are the facts. 5&6 years ago they were 19th and 21st in payroll. That's cheap

[@scott_farr_8975]

No they are not cheap , the problem is you have two heads in front office who don’t know how to properly build a team from the ground up . These two guys are property management leadership , neither have a baseball mind or instinct . Instead of paying 4 diff players who all play the same positions because you want depth , pay one bigger contract for a set position who brings speed / power / not defense . We don’t need 4-5 middle infielders. Stop hiring 20 coaches , cut back and get better coaches and fewer of them . Get a better team manager not Jon Schneider back to AAA for him where he belongs . People who don’t know baseball making poor choices are compounding. Here we are Get rid of front office / get rid of core / start the rebuild under new leadership from top down . Clear the books $$$ Re establish credibility with fans and players , give them a reason to want to sign here . Rebuild the farm Show the proper commitment to the team and fans by the best signing of players they can get , not dumpster diving on the cheap.

[@archangelgabriel5316]

Bro, no one wants to come to Khanada.

[@kturetsky]

Bauer would

[@Gothondra]

Shapiro has zippers on his pants pockets.

[@robinmaelbrancke2560]

NOBODY WANTS TO GO TO CANADA, REGARDLESS OF THE MONEY AND LEGAL WEED....

[@paulfromtoronto1534]

I stopped watching at the trade deadline 2024. After a terrible off season where the jays couldn't land a top free agent, I won't be watching in 2025. This team is terrible as it stands. I'm predicting the Jays to be the worst team in MLB. The fools will still go to watch them live though. Last year, I canceled all products with Rogers. When asked why, I simply told them that the Jays stink and Rogers don't give a shit so why should I.

[@wildfrontierstories]

I think Canada is the prb here. Nobody wants to come here. Taxes, housing, weather, and wako ideas.

[@eshep71]

Happy new year boys. I'll be here until spring arguing that this is all going to be alright. Lol Gimenez still had a higher Owar than Clement. I like Ernie, but he needs to be that 5th infielder, at best. Lukes had 1.2 WAR in 22 games. We need more of that in a full season lol Do you guys remember that Ernie didn't swing and miss at a pitch in spring until the last week. Thats crazy Lol

[@eshep71]

It's hard to say if they are cheap, because no one is taking the money. We just watched them attempt the least frugal moves in baseball history while they're renovating a stadium that, by all acounts, is prepared to sit empty because the fans are quitting. If they sign Bregman or Santander or both, who arent expected to age the best, then I would say no, not cheap. Those are bad investments and take balls to sign. (By all accounts, they haven't even offered these guys a contract, where they have others, so do they even want them?) We're in the stage of twilight contracts. Springer is not worth his 25. They still intend to pay it. The 300m pitching staff that produced 0.1 war still needs to be paid too. Even if they took 400m of that 700m and spent it on 3 guys not named Soto, we're probably regretting it in 3 years, so as boring and confusing as this is, i still respect that they didnt react outside of the plan. This is why i disagree that they are desperate..NY just spent 100m to filled up their lineup up with the same stuff we have, 2023 rebound hopefuls. That's desperate in my eyes.

[@georgesam-reddy6510]

It's cheap and only shops from the scrap heap It's also the the biggest piece of garbage for an organization so why would anyone wants to come here.

[@JohnSopik]

Yes they are very cheap

[@laura-leez]

Cheap and incompetent

[@dagrcards3075]

The Blue Jays were once a class organization. The way they treated Joe Votto was criminal. We need a Beeston/Gillick 2.0 to run the team. These two clowns are a complete disaster!!

[@Dulcimerist]

They treated Joey Votto just fine.

[@dagrcards3075]

@Dulcimerist it was disgraceful that they didn't put him in at least in one game!!!

[@eshep71]

My thought is that they kept him back because they didn't want to chance his salary breaking the luxury tax threshold . If they knew they had 3m in room to play with (estimates were 5m over) then I'm sure they would have brought him up. Getting under the tax was a huge win for the FO. Not one word said about it, but it makes a big difference...if we can sign someone lol

[@MussellRartin]

Think if they treated Votto bad he would be the first to let us know

[@eshep71]

@MussellRartin

[@DennisMahaney-n3w]

Toronto is a shit hole crime taxes I am canadain and the last place I would go is Toronto.