Are These the Important Proto-Hair Metal Albums? (w/Martin Popoff)

[@garym6688]

When Martin mentioned the Canadian connection with Loverboy et al, I was surprised that Aldo Nova wasn't mentioned. To me, "Fantasy" from 1982 is a definite candidate for THE blueprint followed by the likes of Bon Jovi a few short years late. As Pete mentioned "Bringin' on the Heartbreak" as the template for the power ballad, I submit "Fantasy" as the template for the non-ballad hair band rock track. And for a lesser-known band, I'm gonna throw in Chequered Past ... with Michael DeBarres (ex-Detective) on vocals, Steve Jones from the Pistols on guitar along with Tony Sales, and the rhythm section from Blondie, Clem Burke and Nigel Harrison. On paper, not a lineup you might expect to be a hair metal inspiration, but listen to that album (which came out late 1983/early 1984) and tell me that they weren't in on the ground floor. Even the generic song titles "World Gone Wild," "Let Me Rock," "Only the Strong Will Survive" etc were all recycled MANY times by the end of the decade. Despite their pedigree, the band flopped and the album (to my knowledge) had never been reissued in all these years. Great show, gents!!

[@parishofrock2963]

Other artists I’d add are Cheap Trick, Twisted Sister, Billy Squier, Girl, and from an image point of view I’d include Duran Duran.

[@monkeyhouse1672]

Twisted Sister 💯 %%%%%

[@mikeklingenberg3644]

I'm really surprised AC/DC didn't get a mention here. There were plenty of Hair bands that lifted that AC/DC sound one way or another.

[@scottricci5063]

True, chord-wise with the hard rock blues progression. But AC/DC didn't sport that girly look with the lipstick and spandex. They had a tougher aesthetician lyrically, especially with Bon. They're a drinking man's band.

[@andrewcarr5923]

Agreed, but they certainly fit into the lyrics category with the sexual innuendo and tongue in cheek lyrics.@@scottricci5063

[@axljonsson1716]

A lot of hair bands were just glammed up ac dc (Cinderella, Kix, Britny Fox@@scottricci5063

[@andrewcarr5923]

Its more the lyrical content than the look of the band itself that puts them in this category.@eyesofmadness

[@independenceltd.]

@@andrewcarr5923 everyone compared Tom Keifer to Brian Johnson when Cinderella came out. Even me.

[@lateramae]

I definitely agree that Eddie Van Halen's flashy guitar playing style helped influence the hair metal scene.

[@Jamie.Laszlo]

I'd add Boston to the mix...and Aldo Nova.

[@damienfoyer]

A lot of Rock Candy reissues are these pre-hair metal bands and their influences.

[@davealmer3803]

Aldo Nova is a GR8 guitar player. Have all his stuff.

[@alexandergilles8583]

Cheap Trick deserves a mention too I think. They really nailed the "short catchy radio friendly songs with great chorus" thing that the both of yall brought up and which was a big part of the scene. Plus Zander and Peterssen both really had the look too. The two of them didn't have the feminine/androgynous look like the New York Dolls, Bowie, and Hanoi Rocks, with all the makeup and crazy outfits, but they nailed the cool and sleazy rock star look. Nikki Sixx has talked for decades about how huge Cheap Trick's influence was on him as a songwriter

[@independenceltd.]

Rick Nielsen should take that as a personal insult.

[@Blizofoz45]

Pull up the album cover for "In Color" and compare that to "Girls Girls Girls" by Motley Crue. Very obvious influence. But credit Nikki Sixx for understanding the importance of a frontman that can sell the band and pulling from a wide variety of influences. He either knowingly or unknowingly built a band that could move between metal and pop from song to song.

[@cdp2017]

Some favorites of mine in this genre... Starz - Tear it Down Sweet - Cockroach AC/DC - Touch Too Much New England - Don't Ever Wanna Lose Ya Quiet Riot - Inside You Montrose - Rock Candy Kiss - Hotter Than Hell Y&T - Nasty Sadie UFO - Lookin’ Out for #1 Triumph - Hold On Angel - Anyway You Want It Rex - Violent Playground Talas - Stop! In The Name of Love Detective - One More Heartache Streetheart - Action

[@powrnap]

I’ll add the debut albums from NY Dolls, Angel, Starz, Billy Squier, Quiet Riot, Twisted Sister

[@glenfinston704]

Thank you guys fun show! Maybe that’s why you call it the Funhouse lol?! 🤔

[@stevefletcher6163]

UFO , Doctor Doctor,Lights out Schenker period and Scorpions , Lovedrive Mathias Jabs period, were both doing the commercial rocking that weren’t far removed from what became hair metal.

[@RodPower78]

I agree with you on UFO. They had an underrated influence on the hair metal bands, mainly musically and their wild and crazy image. In fact, the clear evidence of UFO's influence is Nikki Sixx getting bits and pieces of his image from Pete Way, mainly playing the Gibson Thunderbird.

[@mikeb.7183]

@@RodPower78 Pete also influenced Steve Harris, He even admits in the early days he wore stripped pants because of Pete.

[@wunderthunderray]

Y&T should be mentioned as they influenced bands like Motley and other LA bands who opened for Y&T back in the day

[@bigredmachine1]

Quiet Riot as well...

[@TimsVinylConfessions]

Y&T should always be mentioned. But then I'll always say that.

[@bigredmachine1]

@@TimsVinylConfessions went to an after show party in Hollywood one night. Nice guys!

[@garybrigham9538]

Y&T should be household names!

[@TimsVinylConfessions]

@@garybrigham9538I couldn’t agree more Gary. Shameless plug, but are you aware of my Y&T book (which Pete and Martin both contributed to) where we break down each of their albums?

[@hrothgar64]

Hanoi Rocks. They may not have sold millions, but their whole image was vital to the LA hair metal scene.

[@jcollins1305]

When I think hair metal (albeit very rarely) I immediately think of mid-late 80’s Los Angeles, skinny dudes, the showman front man and shredding guitars. The progenitors? Early (1979-81) Motley Crue (hair), Van Halen (shredding guitars) Quiet Riot (showman frontman) and KISS (stage show, more accessible ballads for female fans, etc)

[@samhouston1979]

this would be a good topic for Brendon Snyder or Bryce Talks Metal

[@gino88]

I was thinking a good topic would be “who invented the power ballad?” I think REO Speedwagom makes a strong case with their 2 power ballads on their 1980 album “High Infidellity” a year before Def Leppard’s “High and Dry”. Then you add the opener from that album “Don’t Let Him Go” is borderline a blueprint for some hair metal if you check the lyrics and shredding by Gary Rickrath. I think the fact that NWOBHM was so big in 1980 that people probably just dismissed REO Speedwagon as “corny”. But i think Sea of Tranquility should revisit REO Speedwagon and especially Gary Richrath as a shredder and evaluate them with new ears and give them their props for being road warriors and paying their dues in the 1970s to peaking in the 80s. Journey might have claim to the Power Ballad too, but their big ones came after REO’s. Either way would be a good discussion with the right panel. Another good topic would be “when does the genre ‘classic rock’ begin and end, and which bands are the first and last of those genres?”

[@slurrygod]

Kiss' Beth or even Hard Luck Women was before any of them

[@gino88]

@@slurrygod See I consider those songs just slow ballads played by a hard rock band. If that is the criteria then you can go back even further than Kiss to Maggie May or something like that. Power ballads, some define by that hard electric guitar chord that supports the vocal with a shredding electric guitar solo at some point in the song. Neither Kiss song has either of those.

[@slurrygod]

@gino88 true and I agree with your point using those rules. High Infidelity kicked ass for sure.

[@Duality_of_Man]

Similar to Martin's point about early Aerosmith, I would put Pump, Get A Grip, etc into that sort of Glam / Pop Metal category... and one thing I've always said is that almost any song from those classic albums (Rocks, Toys, etc) could have fit on a Pump or Permanent Vacation, albeit not vice versa. What I'm trying to say, is you can hear the early Hair / Glam in those SO well, but it's not necessarily YET Hair Metal

[@monkeytennis9087]

Having been in this hair/glam scene (in London at least) from around 1982 I enjoyed the show but was surprised at some of the picks here, guys. Influential to the sleazy side of glam/hair were acts like the New York Dolls (Johnny Thunders in particular), The Faces, The Sweet, Aerosmith, Alice Cooper. I mean, we listened to NMOBHM, Sabbath, Ozzy, Deep Purple, AC/DC, Motorhead, punk ..... even Venom. But the driving force for the look and sound of glam/hair of the 80s were the look of Johnny Thunders meets the Runaways mixed with the sound of Van Halen meets Aerosmith. The influential early 80s bands to me were Hanoi Rocks (their 1981 debut was a game-changer - and how freakin' cool was Nasty Suicide?), London (although the fact they couldn't get a deal early enough meant they missed the big wave, debuting in '85), Kiss, Crue...I liked Ratt's sound but not so much the vox. Genuinely Sammy Hagar and Triumph were not relevant to us, and Night Ranger were pretty much AOR. The late great Kelv Hellrazer at Shades Records used to be into the AOR side of things as well as glam, and I bought some of his recommendations from him directly, but the harder stuff was where it was at.....LA Guns, London, Crue.....a bit of Dokken, bit of Kix, Black n' Blue, etc.

[@paullennon8366]

I’m surprised at no mention of Scorpions, the Herman Rarebell era but specifically when they got Mathias Jabs. I would also make an argument for UFO. A more obscure one I would add would be Axe although they might not have been pretty enough. Two I’m also surprised were missing were Twisted Sister and Y&T

[@independenceltd.]

RIP Wayne Kramer. Kick out the jams, brothers and sisters!

[@eddiepavlore9500]

Great episode! Sweet definitely an influence an also Mott The Hoople in the early to mid 70s. Twisted Sister and Quiet Riot in the late 70s/early 80s.

[@yankeefan1208]

I always thought Angel had a big influence on the L.A. scene with the look and the hair and the power ballads.

[@garybrigham9538]

Starz is a band not many know but they put out 4 kick ass albums from 76-79 and have been cited as an influence from many bands like Motley Crue, Poison, Bon Jovi and even Lars Ulrich! I can hear all kinds of early 80's influences in their music and they had plenty of controversial lyrics. They were managed by Bill Aucoin who managed KISS, so they kind of got left on the back burner. Otherwise, I think they would have been VERY successful.

[@tylerpatterson4787]

Good call on Montrose lots of 80s hard rock and glam metal bands were influenced by them, especially Tesla Frank Hannon will tell you. I’m surprise Queen was not mention

[@michaelvandiver2475]

Hey Martin and Pete!...I'm enjoying the KISS book Martin...well done! Enjoyed this episode so far...I'd say hair metal might've started with hair/pop/metal Starz? Or Sweet with Desolation Blvd in 1974?

[@jeffd5759]

I think Ozzy Osbourrne should be mentioned too. You had his first couple solo albums come out in 80/81 with Randy. Definitely an influence on the many of the first wave of bands.

[@jamesuden5219]

When Martin is discussing Dokken, he talks about an early compilation on which the band appeared. Steven Reid holds up a copy of that compilation in the Dokken Ranking the Albums video!

[@FinalBaton]

To me, Don Dokken's voice influence has to be the soulful voice of a Paul Rodgers or similar. And yes, the Carrere version of Breaking The Chains is very early on, being in 1981. I like it's inclusion here. I like the inclusion of Japan as well regarding the other countries who catched on.

[@howie5th]

I have no idea if these are Proto-Hair metal albums. But what I do know is, High 'n' Dry, Rocks, and VH 1 are 3 of my all-time favorite albums !!!

[@goldrag3163]

Strange how they overlooked Queen.

[@jeffreyyannuzzi4832]

I’m surprised no mention of AC/DC. Great show as always

[@samd1569]

Great discussion guy's. I've always believed Aerosmith's song Rats In The Cellar influenced RATT'S debut album title Out Of The Cellar. Also Def Leppard's Bringin' On The Heartbreak set the blue print for the hard rock power ballad,

[@danielwolski873]

Van Halen was definitely the first true Glam Metal band. Not only because of the music and lyrics but also their look which would be so influential to many 80's bands.

[@brunosaullo3004]

Great topic gents!! I remember this era quite well...I was always trying to avoid falling into this scene...keeping with heavy metal and classic rock but it wasn't long until i too got into this great time of rock in the arena...I offer to Martins point of Canadian bands big in this genre...Streetheart and Lee Aaron

[@747jono]

Great show as always guys thank you

[@Mofos_of_Metal]

On a side-tangent - I'm a big fan of "US Power Metal" of the 80s - those American bands that took Heavy Metal up a notch but went in a different direction to Thrash. I traced back the US Heavy Metal sound to Queensrÿche's 1982 demo - it has a very notably advanced sound - taking things a definite step further than the NWOBHM bands they were influenced by. To me - this was the blueprint for a whole new distinctly "American" Heavy Metal style. I know this is a different discussion to the "Hair Metal" scene but both scenes are connected by their prioritization of melody - and not going the Thrash or Extreme Metal route.

[@independenceltd.]

Queensryche's demo, EP and debut were all pure Iron Maiden worship. And there were plenty on US power metal bands before QR came around: Riot, Cirith Ungol, Manilla Road, Manowar, Metal Church, Armored Saint, Savage Grace...to name a few.

[@ryanjacobson2508]

​@@independenceltd.Those bands were all stuck in no man's land. Not aggressive enough to scare away normies, but not pretty looking or pretty sounding enough to get girls to come to their shows... Consequently they mostly languished in obscurity. Queensryce was really the only band to succeed commercially.

[@independenceltd.]

@@ryanjacobson2508 are we talking commercial success now, as opposed to the original premise that QR invented US power metal?

[@mkonesky]

Fun show Pete and Martin! It would be fun to do a ranking of Sammy's solo albums at some point. Also maybe even a ranking of Loverboy albums!

[@Hecatecrossways]

I always considered Loudness as the Japanese alternative to the Dio band. Thunder in the East was quite similar to the Last in Line album in song structures . The pre Thunder in the East albums were more of an early Rush style. Thunder in the East was by far the Heaviest of the American market Loudness album. Lighting Strikes was their Dokken worship effort

[@michaeleaster1815]

7:01 also part of the blueprint: the equipment, as Super Strats became synonymous with Hair Metal, and the _blonde_ singer leading a band with relatively non-blonde hair colour (a huge doubling-down on Led Zep's act)

[@MackeyWilliams]

Some good growling from Pete today re: the weather.

[@countralfus6408]

I blame the whole genre on DLR

[@ronaldsmith1484]

I also thought AC DC would get mentioned I think some of the Hard Rock anthems from the late seventies albums in their catalog kinda worked like a blueprint for the rock anthems of the 1980s

[@musicisajourney]

79-82 was a period of its own for Canadian hard and heavy bands. Geoff Barton referred to it as Maple Mayhem.

[@stephanerichard6267]

I think Thunder 7 by Triumph still fit in the category, , after that they went more Pop.

[@JWD1992]

I am a huge 70s glam rock fan. Among those artists, I feel like Sweet might've had one of the bigger influences on 80s glam/hair metal. Especially if you listen to the heavier album tracks. Plus the image. Great band.

[@Hecatecrossways]

Don Dokken sounds like Mike Reno , with the fairly soft Vocal delivery, and occasional shrill scream . Turn Me Loose could have fit in on any of the 3 popular Dokken albums. Breaking the Chains was different from Tooth and Nail , Under Lock and Key , and Back For the Attack, as would be the future Dokken albums.

[@Hecatecrossways]

I can't believe that nobody ever brings up how mellow Klaus Meine's Vocals became after Animal Magnetism. He used to have a Dan Mc Cafferty type of aggressive screaming style on nearly all the Scorpions hard Rock songs. His style change seems like he might have been influenced by Don Dokken, besides the larynx and vocal nodes health issues

[@pvdguitars2951]

Carl Dixon (Coney Hatch) and Don Dokken sound quite similar, both have amazing melodic voices. The male versions of Ann Wilson.

[@metaldams78]

I don’t view Van Halen as proto hair metal. I view them as the first hair metal band, period. The only reason why in my mind it is argued is because it took five years for a scene to follow in their wake. If Metal Health, Too Fast for Love and Out of the Cellar came out in 1979, I don’t think anybody would hesitate to call Van Halen hair metal. Like mentioned in the video, Roth was as definitive a frontman as one can get and Eddie’s guitar style, unlike based in the blues Aerosmith (not a knock, I love old Aerosmith),was ground zero for all the shred players who came from that scene.

[@franciskocher200]

Nice video.😃👍

[@petebrown3715]

Great episode gents per usual. How about proto thrash soon. That'd be awesome.

[@Hecatecrossways]

Autograph definitely sounded like Pyromania era Def Leppard. Never heard another Vocalist that sounds so close to Joe Elliott

[@rickrobb6546]

Triumph.......................................... Rules

[@michaelholycross2633]

Allied Forces is a fantastic album!

[@troyv8302]

I would consider Journey and Styx to have been precursors to hair metal. Power ballads, strong guitar, great singers, flash outfits, and band turmoil for days.

[@ryanjacobson2508]

I dunno... They dressed in trendy 70's clothes in the 70's. But look at Journey's 80's videos.... They are dressed as normal dudes with somewhat toned down hair styles. And Journey always had a fairly wholesome and at times soulful image, not at all like the gritty/sleazy street vibe of hair metal.

[@troyv8302]

@@ryanjacobson2508 I see old Journey video's where they have the longish hair, muscle shirts, and their songs are almost a blueprint for a classic ballad at times. Without them, we would have had nothing to do the last dance at all school dances or for the slow skates at the roller rinks. I do agree that they were fairly wholesome but they click many of the other boxes.

[@kevinbrown1893]

I can't remember any proto hair metal bands that were bald...yeah, I know, glam. All I know for sure is that most of the glam metal acts left a trail of slime, confetti, cake icing, sparkly vomit, beer and whiskey bottles, needles, hair dye, A.I.D.S., cocaine and meth addictions permeating far beyond the Sunset Strip during and after the late '80s and early '90s...good times.

[@randycunningham7318]

ZZ Top....the main lick in Van Halen's Hot For Teacher sounds like Top's Heard It On The X. Not to mention all their blues rock and boogie songs, heavy riffs, and having two guitar solos in songs. They also helped make sexual innuendo and songs about hot women popular. No way they can be looked over.

[@dustyoldtapes580]

I'd like to put in a nod for the first Kix album, from 1981. Imagewise, you got the goofy hats and sunglasses, and though the band would go on to be bona fide hair metal, that first album is like a mishmash of AC/DC, Cheap Trick, Aerosmith, the Knack, who knows what else?

[@tankmacnamara3734]

I've always thought of Dream On as paving the way for the power ballad. And Angel might be one to consider for anyones proto hair metal list.

[@jimmycampbell78]

It was Stairway to Heaven

[@Hecatecrossways]

Sweet were oddly influential with both Thrash, and Hair Metal.

[@roberttee9790]

Another good show guys. I would add Queen. Same time period as Aerosmith. 👍

[@Hecatecrossways]

Musically Loverboy could be considered as a more Pop Dokken, but image wise they looked more like Dire Straits than Motley Crue

[@ronbo11]

According to books I've read, Van Halen (especially DLR) did not like to be labeled as Heavy Metal. They admired (and used to cover) bands like Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, etc., but their sound was mainly hard, fast and bright, not dark, overlong and dirge-y. Roth tried, and failed, to get the journalists to call the VH sound "Big Rock" music. They definitely were the biggest influence on Glam Metal acts, but they were also not a part of the movement. They just rocked their own way and if some of their songs veered into that category, so be it, but most did not.

[@AidenSwords-md1do]

Van Halen wud b far more metal than deep purple

[@independenceltd.]

Most 70s bands didn't want to be called heavy metal cuz it was considered to be a derisive term coined by the music press. Kinda like "hair metal". It wasn't until the late 70s and early 80s where bands embraced it as a badge of honor.

[@jackblondie9424]

Cheap Trick is a major omission. Robin Zander has to be considered the primary vocal inspiration for dozens of hair metal singers. If you’re talking about primary influences on the scene in the years leading into the 80s, I think there are 4 main ones: Aerosmith, Kiss, Cheap Trick and Van Halen. There are of course individuals of the era like Alice Cooper, Ted Nugent and Sammy Hagar who were influential as well but it was always more of a band scene than a soloist one. They were taking things from contemporaneous New Wave metal, hard rock and even some mainstream rock. Like Aerosmith and Van Halen, groups like Foreigner and Journey were also descended from that Rolling Stones template, but skirting towards hard rock at times and adding increasing touches of keyboards and synths to the mix. Groups like AC/DC and The Scorpions were around in the 70s but don’t seem to have directly influenced the look or attitude of the new hair/glam aesthetic themselves and instead were just veteran hard rock acts who slid comfortably into the new scene in the 80s. There were a slew of other acts in the 70s who contributed more indirectly to the general sound or attitude like New York Dolls, Slade, Queen, Sweet, Heart, Boston, Styx as well as the metal groups. Motley Crue seems to be the first instance where the new elements all came together unmistakably as Hair Metal.

[@ryanjacobson2508]

I don't really think of Cheap Trick/Foreigner, and especially Journey, as having much in common with hair metal. Those bands aren't really menacing or sleazy sounding, and also not really a lot of guitar pyrotechnics. AC/DC and their fans never really identified with anybody the hair metal bands.

[@independenceltd.]

@@ryanjacobson2508 AC/DC had bands like Whitesnake, Def Leppard, Y&T, Yngwie Malmsteen, Queensryche, Loudness, King's X, LA Guns, Krokus and Slash's Snakepit as openers. to name a few...

[@colelong8896]

@@ryanjacobson2508 Zander could be menacing when he wanted to, Auf Wiedersehen, Ballad of TV Violence

[@colelong8896]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/gXjZe3l7mb5nhKc kzbin.info/www/bejne/gZm6oHiLf6h_aLs

[@musicisajourney]

With High n Dry, I think the production also points the way to mid-eighties production style.

[@gregwatson3300]

Creatures of the Night was a different sound for them -- Eric's drum sound was heavy and far up in the mix, the gang vocal became prominent, there's a power ballad, and Ace's guitar style was replaced by flashy shredding. Something was lost, but something was gained.

[@saigawesnovember]

Def Leppard High and Dry. Hands down a definite go to.

[@pvdguitars2951]

You gotta throw Angel, Queen, Starz and Y&T in the mix.

[@peterdelaney7061]

The music industry is a copycat industry. A lot of these hair-metal bands sold out or went to great lengths with androgynous looks and not much originality just to get signed. I agree with Pete. Labels were scurrying around looking for the next Van Halen. Twisted Sister, Poison, Warrant, etc. Mostly unoriginal garbage who were signed to fill a gap in a label's roster. Eventually, the genre gets over saturated and people get sick of the same ole same ole

[@mikeb.7183]

Scorpions- Lovedrive was key. You had the title song, Another Piece of Meat and the Holiday for the OG Power Ballad. They also made a huge change from their Hippy 70's image to more of a spandex look.

[@davealmer3803]

Cool Europe Shirt Pete.

[@bobjoe7508]

Kix definitely needs a shoutout because they’re one of the first bands that I would say actually played glam metal.

[@srvuk]

As fun and interesting as this was, it really did do the rounds, going back to 1973 with the Sweet reference and because somewhat of a circular discussion. I fell about laughing when Sammy Hagar was put into the equation, who's only embarrassment was the I can't drive 55 video outfits and that short period of Devo clothes styling. Only Disco, New Wave and Punk were really missed off the list of influences present in the 1980's that some rock bands dipped into in order to appeal to wider audiences. It did show how the origins come from a potentially wide range of musical genres and trends. Every time that I hear the term hair metal or similar, I smile because way back in the 1980's, in the UK I never ever heard the term. Everything tended to come under what was, at the time the new term of Heavy Metal. The placement of Whitesnake's Come an' Get It alongside the style of Kiss was very baffling. "Wine, Women an' Song" is as bluesy and of the Coverdale style typical of the time than you can get, a million miles from hair metal.

[@johnnyhunt9447]

Ok let’s see what kind an Album I agree with You Guys Aerosmith! I was So Blessed To grow up in Perfect timing of what Amazing Music was Happening! I remember The Def Leppard High and Dry Album Ranks Up with The Greatest Rock’n Albums ! Got to go to so many concerts well priced around 7 to 8 dollars for a ticket! From 1977 still going I am within a couple concerts having gotten to see 700 concerts sandwiched between Shreveport and Dallas in 1980 I went to see Def Leppard touring with a Rock’n album On Through The Night and The Scorpions were on tour for Animal Magitism Those 2 Bands were Unbelievable and Ted Nugent Headlined and he Really had tough time staying with them Def Leppard was already playing new Songs from High well my senior year High and Dry from Def Leppard and I would go to so many concerts that I knew to listen to what the road crews for The Major Bands and Always from start to to finish that High and Dry album would be getting everyone ready and the crowd always wanted the stage guys to let Song finish and that said alot to me of the Impact I am friends with Vivian Champbell Guitar Player Amazing Guitarists and getting to meet and Hang out for hours with Such a Nice Guy my Late Good Friend Custom Guitar Builder has made for so many Legends Like Vivian We lost one of The Most Wonderful Talented Funny Friend he knows Vivian is one of my Top Guitarist with So many and Buddy kids with me kinda and tells Vivian that Neal Schon is my All Time Favorite’s and Vivian and ware only 2 weeks apart in age and he says to Buddy He knows his Music and when subject of as Big as a Def Leppard Fan I was getting ready to be and after High and Dry Definitely Ronnie James Dio with Vivian And Venni Oh Wow! Great Show and subject this is what I like hearing about! Ok I will say one thing I remember my old Girlfriend liking Posion and To this Day I Believe Bay City Rollers became Posion High and Dry Lady Strange everyone! Triumph Rains Supremacy I got to see this Band 9 times and Unbelievable Amazing Performing Band Hands down their Light show is Better than KISS light show and Songs the Guitar Player Lead Singer has several of my Top 20 Rock Performances I have gotten to see and that last Triumph Album with Rik Emmett has Steve Morose playing with T I’m Rik and a Song Gil sings the Guitar solo Duel Off is The Best! I got to see Triumph 3 times on Never Surrender Album and first time was 2 weeks after Triumph Played a Near Perfect Set there and did in Dallas Tx at Texas Jam and I was not sure what I would think first time I saw with out lights Nearly Perfect!

[@joeylyons4549]

Y&T maybe. And in a strange way Sweet possibly. Just for the image

[@apparaoapparao]

Whitesnake, Quiet Riot, Def Leppard

[@scottnorris8071]

It’s all rock n roll

[@damienfoyer]

A lot of people listening through their eyes, A typical post in the comments of this video "I hate hair metal, I love the band *insert name of a hair metal band* and never considered them hair metal."

[@richardwillis6936]

A band that nobody ever mentions here could have been very early Hair metal is Detective.

[@randycunningham7318]

White Snake, Night Ranger, Journey, Rush.

[@petegreenfield3645]

Sweet Fanny Adams...

[@SGED392]

Not American but I think Scorpions Love Drive was a huge influence

[@cornchipsnovemberland3565]

Regarding the Dokken discussion, IMHO, Don Dokken is the best singer of his generation. Every vocal track on Dokken records is meticulously crafted, with each phrase and melody delicately arranged. No one sounds like Don because he follows his own vision and developed his own voice. He started as a bright tenor, but his tone filled out beautifully throughout his career. Although his range, due to health issues, has greatly diminished in the last decade, he always sounds like Don.

[@Lodgerizer]

What separates Mötley from the rest of the bunch is that Mick Mars was never a shredder, he wrote guitar solos in the vein of Jeff Beck, but he always wished he could play like Van Halen or DeMartini. And yet Mötley beat all the "hairbands" (I hate that term) in terms of success, so I think Nikki's songwriting is the difference. As a Crüe-head since '83, I always thought Mick would be the first one to be replaced. I was wrong, and Mötley has dealt with the whole Mars-issue all wrong. I'm team Mars but I also hope for a splendid future Mötley album.

[@JasonJamesHatch]

I would have guessed that Judas Priest would have been in the mix.

[@brunovallesmunoz4757]

The Sweet/Cheap trick/late 70s KISS/VAN HALEN

[@SGED392]

I had a comp called Heavy Metal Thunder and it consisted of Dokken , Rage, Demon ,Brian Connelly Heatbreak and Saxon ..maybe that’s the comp you had Martin

[@independenceltd.]

Aerosmith/Kiss/Van Halen/Hanoi Rocks

[@Mark-bi5dk]

I remember a show similar about the bicycle wheel of genres

[@sleepycump5532]

I think about Kenny Loggins. I'm Alright and Footloose are big 80's hits. Plus he wrote Poison's smash Your Mama Don't Dance.

[@randycunningham7318]

Can't look over Skynard, Allman Brothers and other classic southern rock bands.

[@johnmichaelwilliams6694]

Popoff and Pardo are at it again discussing the genesis of Hair Metal or, perhaps more specifically, important prior-hair metal albums. Another interesting discussion with Martin and Pete. Glad to hear Pete mention Bowie's Ziggy Stardust/Aladdin Sane phase and my mind also reaches back to possibly some Alice Cooper with the whole make up and stage show approach but that may be reaching too far [or even not far enough is we're looking at the make-up aspect of hair metal]. But the look of Van Halen on MTV [when it cranked up in the early 80s] must certainly have had some significant impact on the blueprint for band to come looking for that MTV break as well. In any event, thanks again, gents, for this dive into the history of music and its genesis. There ya go!

[@user-pl2rw5cg7e]

I think music video influenced this whole era in music history

[@independenceltd.]

there was already the LA glam scene going on before MTV grabbed ahold of it. but they definitely influenced many other bands that came after, and even caused several other once-respectable bands to put on glittery clothes and hair spray to get their videos aired. *looking at you ozzy, scorps, priest*

[@markc5771]

It's funny that you guys say the 'hair" started in 1983. I have contended for the last 30 years that rock and roll was born in the 50's, was an adolescent in the 60's became a mature adult in the 70's and died in 1982.

[@DanM-mi8oo]

Where would Aldo Nova fall into this discussion as well.

[@neuroisis85]

Do the so called 'corporate' rocks of the mid to late 70's like Boston, Foreigner, REO, Styx, Journey etc contribute here or is that just a completely separate thing?

[@ryanjacobson2508]

Hair metal commercially supplanted those bands but I don't see much overlap myself. Those 70's bands were smooth, melodic, had objectively strong vocals, and generally didn't lean too hard on sleaze or machismo. Hair metal overall was much more decadent and gritty.

[@Chaz4543]

Thats all proto-hair metal in my book. All the hair metal bands of the 80s were no doubt heavily influenced by those guys.

[@damiankarras]

Don Dokken was totally influenced by Klaus Meine. He even filled in for Klaus on the Scorpions Blackout demo recordings in 81 when Klaus was having his well documented vocal troubles back then. Don absolutely loved Klaus and has that tone and soaring quality without Klaus’ screech.

[@PatPakken]

I think Sweet, Slade and even early Y&T.

[@jeffreywebb7932]

Good show guys.I would add Angel,Starz,Piper/Billy Squier and maybe latter-day Sweet.🙂👍

[@Hecatecrossways]

Scream Dream, and Intensities in 10 Cities stand alone as more Extreme Metal style for Ted Nugent with goofy violent lyrics, and screaming Vocals. Wango Tango is a bizarre song, that was on the verge of pure insanity

[@Hecatecrossways]

Jeff Watson might be the most technically proficient guitar player in the history of music. There would be no Buckethead if not for Jeff Watson

[@flyerbob7525]

RIOT SPERANZA REALE SO UNDERATED GREAT BOOK MARTIN