Are those yellow hooks legal?

[@graemegaerth14]

Hi Robert. This is the first time I have seen your site and appreciate the time and effort as well as knowledge you have put into it. I have been caravanning for 40 years and am pedantic on compliance with towing regulations. The days of hooking up a 22ft Viscount Supreme behind an EH Holden station wagon loaded with kids, pets and pushbikes heading for the beach are unfortunately long gone but rightly so. We currently have a 20ft van and 3 ltr Mazda BT50, it is a good combination set up correctly and travels extremely well. The caravan builder is responsible for the safety compliance of tow chains and tow hitch. the vehicle supplier is responsible for safety and compliance of the tow bar and ball. Providing I comply with load regulations and weight distribution all is sweet. Where I am totally responsible it the safety chain connection of caravan to tow vehicle. Why would I go to all the effort to ensure I am totally safe and legal then shortcut on an undersize shackle or similar connection. I have been watching the gradual increase in usage of yellow hooks. You still require two hands to disconnect and while it is each to his own I am yet to find a benefit. With all the ambiguous documents you outlined at the end of the day if there is an unfortunate incident it will be the Insurance company that will be looking for an out and then the transport department looking for someone to hang. With that I use the largest possible tested shackle I can fit after all they are cheap as chips compared to the other towing aids required and the day I can't bend over and do up a shackle that's the day I sell the van or get my wife to do it. Apart from that thanks for an exceptional presentation and I have now that I have subscribed look forward to viewing more.

[@L2SFBC]

Thank you, I appreciate such a detailed post. I agree with all your points.

[@361noble]

Dude, I don’t even live in Australia and I watched the whole video. Your commitment to evidence-based reasoning and rational thinking is both highly admirable and highly appreciated. It’s what makes your channel worth watching.

[@L2SFBC]

I appreciate that, thanks so much!

[@stco2426]

Completely agree!

[@peterrowe3509]

Totally professional analysis, Robert, and in complete contrast to the slack formulation of 80% of the regulations surrounding this important safety topic. Those regulations are SUPPOSED to guide safe practice! Instead, they make it extremely difficult for anyone to understand what they need to do, both for safety AND compliance. Your work here helps. Thank you!

[@L2SFBC]

:-)

[@stephenhunter70]

They are trying to convert what they probably think is legal English (Blacks law dictionary )to plain English with the results you are seeing.

[@tastiger91]

@@stephenhunter70 They don't know how to use english and maths now, not taught it like they used to.

[@davidbroadbent2529]

A really clear and factual video Robert. Thank you. I would like to add the following points for you to consider and comment on, even maybe do an update to this video, if you see fit. 1. As I understand it, safety chains are REQUIRED to serve (at least) two purposes. a. Maintain an "Independent Secure Positive Connection" between the Towing Vehicle and the Towed "Load" (eg Caravan, Trailer etc); in the event of a Failure of any part of the Towing Coupling Connection. b. Restrict the Drawbar of the "Towed Load" from coming in contact with the Road Surface in event of a Failure of any Part of the Towing Coupling Connection. About 50 years back, a VicRoads Inspector told me :- a. to "Keep my safety chains as short as possible b. CROSS my safety chains. eg right hand chain on towed vehicle neck is to connect to left hand connection point on Towing Vehicle; and vice versa. c. He would NOT approve a "Towed vehicle" for Registration where the AS RATED SAFETY Chains had simply been welded to the Towing Neck, as at that time there was concerns raised of the effect of all aspects (welding temperature, rod choice etc) had on steel of rated chain. He recommended using Hammer Locks to secure the safety chain to suitable steel (or Aluminium as requires) welded per an AS std to the towed vehicle drawbar. d. He also stated that he felt, with vehicle that had removable tow couplings, secured by a Cross Pin ( eg HR) and with very "average quality thin steel plate, with hole for shackle: that this safety chain connection point was not in keeping with point 1a. above. He was recommending that at the least, for removable tow necks that a SEPARATE pair of short chains be required to go from separate adequate fixed LUGS on the Main part of the Tow Bar to their Respective "chain eyes holes" on the Removable Tow bar. And it is to either a rated shackle or hammerlock coupling used in a way that the continuity of the safety chains goes from "Fixed Tow bar assembly" all the way to Towed vehicle drawbar. [In simple words the chain connection points on the removable coupling are ONLY used as chain support, and not as a safety anchor point.] Thus one maintains a Safety Connectivity per the meaning of the relevant Australian Standards that cannot be questioned in any Coronal Hearing. As a final note, over last 40years when I connected any trailer using shackles, I always use a shifter to just nip them slightly tighter than finger tight. Also generally if I am going long distances I use a bit of tie wire though shackle pin eye to shackle.

[@hughgreen7826]

Magnificent memory

[@bobaitken9006]

Well done Robert you have now learnt that you don’t live in a single country but a commonwealth of states who can’t get the act together over lots of different regulations. Keep up the good work.

[@gruffystrawbry2715]

Nice work Robert! I deal with this in our large fleet and we say it's a rated shackle only. The reasons we don't allow hooks are; 1, because they aren't recommended by any authority. 2, because the spring mechanisms aren't reliable or durable in the dirty off road environment we operate in. I will hang my hat ( and my professional reputation) on the standards and advice from the feds.

[@Nascup]

Fantastic video and very nicely explained.

[@L2SFBC]

Thank you Nascup, much appreciated!

[@ricoda5]

great video, can i add that years ago during my apprentiship as a fitter, the instructor demonstrated a twisted chain climb out past a safety catch on a hook when load was applied, so to this day I still remember that from 40 years ago and wont use hooks on a trailer for that reason

[@lukehiggs2420]

Nice well researched video, very informative. One thing a lot of people don’t consider is the wear caused between the tow hitch and attachments when just left swinging in the breeze when not in use.

[@FladFlidington]

Great effort, having worked in a NATA test laboratory with the Australian Government certifying test results to AS standards I know what goes into a writing and compiling test results to prove compatibility to the relevant standards and you are dead right a Commer hyphen or mis spelt word, hours of searching through Thesauruses and Dictionaries just for a proof reading, the back and forth before it is rubber stamped is mind numbing. This is one country, and those standards are Australian Standards, not state interpretations and they mean exactly what they say We have ADR rules for cars and Trucks that every state complies to, all this gear you mentioned hooks shackles and chains if used on the road should also comply to a single set of ADR rules.

[@madmadmickhog]

what a breath of fresh air !!! A pity our statutory authorities don't hire this guy to clean up their files /good work mate / appreciate it !

[@JulietHotelFoxtrot]

The specificity of road safety in Australia appears to be magnitudes greater than here in the USA. For instance, the only legal requirement for me towing a trailer in my state (not a fifth wheel or truck bed mounted hitch) is that "it shall be coupled to the towing vehicle by means of a safety chain, cable or equivalent device in addition to the primary coupling device...." That's it. Hence, a law so loose the Facebook arguments would slide right through it.

[@L2SFBC]

Good point, thanks JHF

[@mikeburston9427]

Well done Robert this is the best video covering this topic. Another issue with the spring loaded gate hooks is you can get a situation known as chain roll out causing the chain to become separated from the hook. Great work

[@axelknutt5065]

Very interesting information. The biggest issue is buying your yellow hooks off Wish or Alibaba .. if they do have any markings, can you trust them and if they don’t have any markings, it’s going to be pretty hard to convince the authorities that they do comply.

[@stoneyblack6905]

Chains welded to drawbars have issues as well! Some links have not enough weld on them, some welded links has been under cut in size by the weld, and some welded links are at right angle to the straight pull of the chain. There are so many factors from the tow bar to the trailer hitch that need considering!

[@bradkark]

Thanks for this video! I really like your evidence based approach. I recently replaced the worn chains on my 4T van and struggled with the regulations, particularly for the G80 chain. I now understand the various standards better and while I’m pretty sure I fitted the correct components I can now make sure they are correctly marked so I can justify their suitability , if I need to. I didn’t know about they safety factor of 4 for chains and hammerlocks, I had thought it was 6 for chains, shackles and hammerlocks. I see many people who just put the shackle in the end link and let the chains touch the ground. This was the case with my van, even though it had passed a road worth inspection just before I bought it some links were worn through by more than 50%.

[@L2SFBC]

Safety factor of 4 for G80. Not hooks, G80 hooks, and whatever else is tested to G80 (AS3776 in Australia). The standard is different to the unit.

[@Xstream65]

Another great video Robert. Appreciate the effort you put in to enable the facts to be conveyed in an easily understandable format. I’ll be sticking to a a pair of WLL1 shackles, the cost differential is a no brainer

[@YoyoPrivate-l7m]

Hi Robert, I sell this equipment and it is a great explanation of what I try and tell consumers when they enquire. I have had "technical experts" explain to me Australian Standards and in short there is a great deal of misinformation as you have detailed in the video. My only additions to your video (in relation to AS3776) is to consider G100 in place of G80 connectors (hammerloks) and hooks. 6mm G80 hooks will fit 13mm trailer safety chain (AS4177) and as you pointed out 1.12t WLL (and in fact many are sold as 1.1t). And many towbars actually require an 8mm G80 connector (hammerlok) in order to fit. The G80 8mm connector would be compliant with ATM 3500kg, but the 6mm G80 eye safety sling hook / self locking hook would not. A G100 6mm hook (AS3776) (either safety sling or self locking) would have a WLL of 1.4T (with a 4:1 safety factor) so MBS of 5.6T, therefore being compliant with ATM of 3500kg x 1.5 = 5,250kg. The other aspect not mentioned is in relation to hook orientation. Many use these hooks with the latch opening being towards the rear. This is not how these hooks are designed to be used. I won't go into too much detail on here, but the hooks are tested and designed in an axial load. Any qualified rigger can explain hook design and application of strength. The complexities of the hook orientating itself correctly in a decoupling scenario is the grey area that correct hammerlok selection/tow bar design do not really address. You also hinted at variation in trailer safety chain dimensions that are being sold. I can tell you first hand that this is true, and in fact some chains even copy the required chain markings! But may not have the correct dimensions, nor even correct test certification. I won't go into CTA's (Component Type Approvals) in relation to upcoming ADR compliance, but very few manufacturers have CTA approval. In fact from all importers only one that I know currently has a CTA approval number, and another is still waiting for theirs to be allocated. The others import chain with 4177 markings, but cannot provide CTA numbers. I say import as to my knowledge trailer safety chain under AS4177 has not been made in Australia since KitoPWB ceased Australian production. Thank you for your video which cleared up many aspects of information circulating, and backed up by credible references. And of course anything works, until something goes wrong....

[@L2SFBC]

Brilliant, thank you - I didn't mention G100 as I've not seen anything sold for towing that's G100, and the video is already long. The hook orientation is something I should have mentioned. In a decoupling scenario it isn't clear how the load will be applied, unlike a hoist when you know exactly. QLD TMR had dark words to say about hooks but would have been better had they said "the hooks may not orient correctly for strength in the event of a decoupling". Relieved to read that's all you picked up!

[@peterskennerton5198]

Very thorough review of the matter and gives a good guidance for people to make an informed decision. I'll keep to my 1.5t D or Bow Shackles as it's overkill but less likely to give me grief on interstate trips.

[@Aphony66]

Personally I will not be using hammerlock hooks. My reason: When a caravan/trailer rolls it is expected that the forces acting on the hook would be expected to occur in more than 1 plane eg tensile load. I can safely assume that the forces acting on the hook would be expected to occur on at least 3 planes eg tensile load, side load and torsional loads. If the hammerlock hook were to bind, the torsional load exerted could encourage the hook to contort possibly opening the gate for the chain to slip out. This is less than ideal. A correctly rated and approved bow shackle has much less chance of allowing an opening to occur during a torsional load exerted upon it during towing in my humble opinion. I will stick with correctly rated bow shackles thank you.

[@davidrobinson990]

Quite simply,…..bloody well done Robert! You are always such a reliable source of information. Thank you.

[@L2SFBC]

Thank you kindly

[@GerardCullen-lv1cq]

Thanks!

[@GerardCullen-lv1cq]

i hope this keeps me legal and fine free tanks Mate Gerard

[@L2SFBC]

Thank you for the Super Thanks!!

[@tungstentwohundredandtwent7007]

Great research & presentation. There are still a couple of aspects that amaze me about this subject. Having a look at a few brand new trailers before I built my own, the standard of welding the chains to the drawbar varied (visually) from average to shithouse. There doesn’t seem to be much checking of compliance on that point. I went the other way & used hammerlocks through holes in the the 10mm drawbar plate, no welding. At the vehicle end of the chains I’m running the yellow hooks with hammerlocks to the chain. I pointed all this out at the VicRoads inspection for the initial registration & it passed without question.

[@L2SFBC]

Well, AS4177 says you need 13mm chain, so that's what it is. I didn't want to complicate things with G100.

[@paulmcintosh5589]

Follow hosting load guide, hooks are designed for constant load, trailer chains are not constant load. The safety latch on hooks is not designed for what can happen when a trailer comes off the ball, chains can be rolled out of the safety latch allowing the trailer to become completely free, and should not be used for slack chains and the twisting that can happen if the ball fails. Bad advice.

[@jamesosborne218]

Thankyou for your knowledge and amazing presentation. The takeaway im getting is it is worth the extra 5 seconds to do up a shackle whick can accommodate multiple chain sizes but a hook cannot its limited to a matched chain size. I will continue to use correctly rated shackles, once again, thankyou for you amazing research and presentation on this issue!

[@L2SFBC]

Glad it was helpful!

[@Okapimoja]

Great presentation and knowledge, thanks. I had previously read the Victorian regulations for shackles and found them very vague and also the regulations surrounding mirrors for towing, also vague. I have often wondered how strong the 6mm plate with a hole drilled in it on most towbars is, potentially the weakest link.

[@samday6621]

Outstanding presentation on such a technical subject. You even stopped me giving my opinion on using these hooks, which is irrelevant. I’ve subscribed. Thanks!

[@L2SFBC]

Glad it was helpful!

[@dennisharvey4317]

Damn fine presentation ! Once again each state in Australia has different requirements and standards , not unlike traffic regulations, crazy! I totally agree what you are saying. It is imperative that there should be one standard for towing equipment for the whole nation in this regard. Keep it right, keep it simple. Thanks for your informative video.

[@gregbuck9679]

Thank you Robert, I wish the authorities of all states and territories would watch this video. Then get together and put together 1 set of rules and regulations in simple English that we all understand. By the way another great video.

[@L2SFBC]

thanks Greg, please share

[@davidstephens1092]

That would be excellent but I really doubt that there would be any chance of them reaching an agreement. I hope they prove me wrong.

[@paulmartin7737]

Good luck getting all states to sing from the same hymn sheet, better get a flight plan ready for the pigs!

[@robertboyle7790]

Thanks Robert for the through analysis. Clear and concise.

[@paulsiebert4863]

Lot of these showing up on farm vehicles. Good reasons: short trips and time short. Caravanning? D shackles. They're lighter (?) for the same ratings, and if you're unhitching 10 - 30 minutes later, that'd be unusual.

[@robyoung1890]

Well, I found this very interesting and thought provoking, but for those of us in South Australia (yes, there is such a place), there was no mention of our regulations. and that's a little sad as so much detail was provided for other states, even the Northern Territory. Thanks for your hard work bringing this info together, it was a really excellent presentation Robert!.

[@waxhead63]

Come on Rob we don't have caravans in SA nor do we tow anything .... with that we should be able to keep all the east coast caravaners away from our hidden gem

[@robyoung1890]

@@waxhead63 you are funny LOL. Very drole.

[@shafmahar4974]

Thank you for recording these detailed guidance.

[@terrysmith7740]

I've been using massively oversized bow (3.5T) shackles due to ignorance, Thank you for clearing this up. Subbed.

[@robkeith1776]

Fascinating Robert. Your video should be compulsory viewing by all who wish to tow a trailer. My pet hate - all who wish to tow a trailer should complete an approved course.

[@L2SFBC]

Thanks Rob, please share!

[@michaeldallimore8590]

Useful video many thanks. I was looking at the Mawby hook as I don't like those large hooks hanging down low all the time. I now know what to look for.

[@L2SFBC]

The Mawby is much smaller, the hook goes on the chain...only problem I see is the throat size for 13mm chain.

[@paulsparks560]

Great video, I went to a trailer manufacturer here in Australind "Boz Built" to buy some hooks as I already have the hammer locks fitted by them and was informed that in WA they are illegal to the extent that the pits will fail the test. The reason given by Boz was they are used only for lifting. Now I'm totally confused. Paul

[@L2SFBC]

Boz is wrong. Now you're not confused. Have them watch this, and then email me the regulation that says the hooks are only for lifting and cannot be used horizontally.

[@michaelslee4336]

I see lots of vehicles with these on and always think to myself good luck explaining your actions with your insurance company and the coroners court if things go pear shaped.

[@JustAskDave]

Robert thank you for doing what no one (for some bizarre reason) has done before and put an end to the arguments! I do like the Mawbe hooks design and that they are much smaller, but I can buy a dozen sets of appropriately rated D shackles for that price! Thank you again, very well researched and presented.

[@L2SFBC]

Yes, none of the hooks are cost-effective compared to AS2741 shackles.

[@dustyfarmer]

Those lifting hook latches aren't rated to carry a load where as shackles are an enclosed solid loop, load rated 100% around their entire body.

[@KitiBits]

Thank you, I LOVE a good video that is investigated thoroughly prior to providing the information. I was looking for information to see if the hooks were safe for floats but I am going to say NO.

[@L2SFBC]

Glad it was helpful!

[@commonsense-grs]

What it all and very informative. I have seen these yellow hooks regularly on American towing shows and thought these would make life a little easier when constantly hooking up and unhooking my van. Ok, people may say I'm a bit of a princess, but anything that makes my caravaning holiday simpler and easier, why not. I think I may give them a go.

[@L2SFBC]

FAQ: 1. Does each connector need to be 1.5 x ATM? - yes, each one. 2. Why no SA? The video was long enough and their regulations are no different. Read www.infrastructure.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/vehicle-standards-bulletin1-revision6-trailers-with-aggregate-trailer-mass-4-5-tonnes-or-less-may2023.pdf which has at the top an ADR62/02 reference which is included in the video. SA didn't have anything specific I could screenshot. 3. I don't know why regulations are hard to read and vague. I suppose it's because the end result is never tested with the audience, probably only read by people who already know the subject well. Please in the comments differentiate between your opinion on what's safe, your opinion on what should be legal, and what the regulations ACTUALLY say and do NOT say. Feel free to hit Super Thanks or join my Patreon if you found this useful.

[@olivermorton9852]

I love how you are tearing these docs apart at the same time. Good job 😆

[@L2SFBC]

I went easy...they are poorly written. Vague and even some unforgivable errors.

[@NoFixedDestinationAu]

Thankyou for taking the time to investigate this issue.

[@L2SFBC]

You're welcome!

[@davidmilledge221]

You wouldn't use them as recovery hooks for towing out bogged vehicles , think about it folks , there not designed for big shock loads

[@L2SFBC]

did you even watch the video?

[@IanSHarrison]

Nicely done and well cited. Think I will stay with Shackles.... nothing like staying with KISS principle and you dont have a kg of dangling steel (2 hooks) under your tail. Thought about Mawby hooks but would be a pain if you moved to another vehicle and needed different chain length.

[@karlmeredith710]

just found your videos ,very informative and thorough , i have come up against similar things with ADR information but i don't believe a lot of the people that wrote them understand them ,and trying to get information from anyone or at least same answer from any two people is next to impossible

[@Tex260Z]

Hi Robert, thank you for your fantastic research, very nice to see some facts rather than Chinese whispers we usually find when researching this sort of stuff. So I went straight out and bought a set of Mawby Hooks for our pop top, (10mmm. chains). However, I came across a small issue on which your opinion would be appreciated. I have a Mercedes Benz SUV with an Australian made tow bar, unlike any vehicle I have had before the shackle point on the bar is horizontal, it does appear that this follows a pattern used in Europe where I can see trailer chain mounted hooks being mounted directly to the bar without a hammerlock shackle attachment. Using the the hammerlock with a horizontal mounting point seems to me to be a bit strange, and to my mind the more devices you have for the load to go through the more chances you have for a failure. I actually put the question to Dix Engineering and after a few days got a reply simply stating that they do all their testing with the hammerlock, and their installation instructions are based on that, end of story. Fair enough, but that doesn't answer the question of which is better from a pure engineering performance perspective, opinions please?

[@L2SFBC]

do you have a link to a photo?

[@terryjongen7299]

Fabulous presentation. Cuts through the myths. Thank you

[@BrucePinkerton]

An excellent report.

[@nevillehyatt621]

Great video - I've just been through trying to ensure my boat trailer which has an aggregate mass of about 2.2 ton is legal the way it is setup, in South Australia - you have answered a lot of the questions I had even though you missed out SA in your summaries

[@geofflines60]

Great video. Have you approached the Austrian govt for their comments on safety chains and shackles in tassie🤔

[@rodsmith2560]

Thanks Robert for a simple explanation, as others have mentioned insurance companies and enforcement agencies would have a field day if users were not able to prove that the chains and shacles were not compliant, I personally don't trust hooks for towing but for lifting they're ok.

[@desparky]

Robert, Thankyou for your meticulous approach as usual. I don't care for the look of hooks hanging off a tow bar, but I am also concerned that they would wear at the point of attachment of the tow bar when not in use. If I were to use them, I would prefer to have them connected permanently to the trailer chains. If I were attaching and removing a trailer several times a day, I would probably be more inclined to use hooks. However, for the extra time needed to simply screw up a shackle I'll just stick with them. Also, should I become involved in an accident where the trailer becomes detached from the vehicle, at least I am compliant with the recommended attachment method in every state. If this was to go to court for any reason, as you have pointed out, there are grey areas and ambiguities in the road rules. Lawyers would have a field day.

[@chuckmaddison2924]

This must be the most comprehensive video produced. I wonder how many out there being " lifestyle " heading off on vacation with a trailer have any idea. And the rental outlets where they hand you a couple of bits when you pay.

[@L2SFBC]

Thanks! It's not an easy subject and for something so simple it took a LONG time to research!

[@colinbreguet1359]

Great video Robert. Thanks for trying to show some clarity to a very confusing issue. To my mind some caravan manufacturers confuse the issue further by attaching their safety chains to caravan drawbars with hammer locks. From my perspective, being a structural steel fabricator I see this as an acceptable alternative to welding a link of a rated chain to the drawbar due to the welding process being highly likely to alter the metallurgy of the rated chain thus creating a weak point. Regards Colin.

[@graemegaerth14]

Totally agree Colin, this has been a bugbear of mine for years. At least with hammer locks the chain can be replaced.

[@robk6670]

Thank you, Robert. You have done a lot of research there and I'm sure that will close out a lot of arguments!

[@L2SFBC]

Thanks please share!

[@snowgray6364]

Very well done, thank you Robert for all of your effort in this very informative video.

[@L2SFBC]

You are very welcome

[@stevep2073]

As Mr Pepper wisely says if somebody says something on the internet, ask for definitive proof. That’s exactly what I would have liked to see in this presentation. An individual’s interpretation is one thing but I would have liked to see the specific question asked of all State and Territory authorities and to see their responses. The video started by saying we well see ‘exactly what the authorities say about these yellow hooks”. Unless I missed it, I only saw that he asked Victoria and Queensland the specific question about the hooks. Victoria came back with a response that didn’t specifically answer the question. Mr Pepper then applied his own interpretation to their response and concluded that we “can imply from this they are in fact legal”. Part of the thinking seems to be that he’s “pretty sure they mean “e.g” instead of “i.e.”. This is all supposition and while it may well be valid, I would have preferred to see a definitive response from the authority. Queensland were more specific in their response. They said initially said “When connecting a safety chain, hooks with an open side or securing clip cannot be relied upon to retain the integrity and remain connected to the towing vehicle should the trailer detach”. When asked for further clarification, they said “it is technical legal to used closed hooks* as described, however it is strongly recommended they are not used. Using these hooks could be considered non-compliant with the other safety obligations referenced in our response, should an incident occur.” * The term “Closed hooks” was not defined, it was used in communications with TMR Qld. The summary includes none of this seemingly critical qualifying commentary. I know from my own enquiries of the authorities into this issue that the key concern is not so much the rated capacity of the devices but the latches. This is what sets these devices apart from shackles. This issue received little coverage relative to the capacity issue. I’ve got other concerns with the video but I’ll leave it there for now unless anyone wants further information.

[@L2SFBC]

Freel free to add your other concerns. I am glad you could differentiate between what the authorities said, and my interpretation as I hoped to make the two clear by showing the words I found and links to the documentation. Also note I did not claim to have succeeded in a written response from every authority, but in some cases the hooks were specifically mentioned as a valid solution so to me that counts as 'what they say' whether that be a direct question, or a clear statement in a regulation. I agree the concern seems to be the latches and mentioned that point. However, we are now into what is sensible and safe, vs what is legal and the two are sadly not quite the same.

[@stevep2073]

@@L2SFBC Putting aside the issue of need for proof of what constitutes 'legal' I personally see no reason why you wouldn't look for a hook that has been tested to AS4771.4 rather than any other standard. This, as you said is the next best thing to a relevant standard for safety chain connection devices. You concluded that the hook should meet a standard such as AS2741 or AS3776. AS2741 relates to shackles so I can't see how they could even apply. AS3776 relates to lifting and you clearly showed that some hooks don't fit well with towing chains. So to me, I'd only look at hooks that have been tested to AS4771.4. To my way of thinking it should be much easier to justify via the provisions of Circular 0-1-3 if called upon to do so. Also, I don't think enough coverage was given to the Mawby Hook. The method of attachment is different and they've been tested as combined unit. They fit together. No question. They've been tested to the (closest) relevant standard. No question. They're properly rated. No question. Sure, they don't fit 13mm chains but that's clearly covered in the specs and shouldn't come as a surprise. I may have missed the point but the whole ADR62/02 discussion lost me. As I see it this apply to the connectors to the draw bar end and has nothing to do with connectors to the car? I was generally concerned with the depth of coverage given to the issue of latches. This is the potential weak point. Sure you said make sure they're well made, inspected regularly etc but I'd like to think than a stronger position can be reached than words to the effect of "I've given you the information, it's up to the individual to decide". Again none of this was covered in the Summary. I know from own enquiries of the authrorities, the latch is the 'weak link' and the only one that I wrote to give me a Yes nod was Northern Territory. If as you say the 'closed' (external) type latch is better I would like to have seen this put to all relevant authorities for comment. PS I've obviously missed the point that some authorities mentioned hooks being a valid solution. Is that in the video or in the links?

[@L2SFBC]

Fair comments generally, thanks. Re the standards; again I'm going off what's legal vs what's sensible, maybe I didn't differentiate clearly enough. As for the Mawby Hook - nothing I saw say it wasn't suitable for 13mm chain, and it says it's rated for 3.5t ATM trailers which, according to 4177, must have 13mm chain. And they are bringing out a new version. It was not clear to me that they'd tested it to 1.5x 3.5t, so I called and asked, and they have. So, like every other company in this product space, I feel their packaging needs a bit of clarity. The ADR62 discussion - that's what specifies 1.5x ATM, and from there the regulations are drawn. As you say, I did cover the two types of latches...maybe I could have spent more time on it. As for questions to the authorities - always a problem with often a long time to answer, and when you do get an answer, it's often vague. I was surprised and pleased Queensland came back a second time, that's rare.

[@sirgregoir]

Hook has to have a double action to disengage, or I'm not using it. Do a rigging course, and you'll see how easily single action hooks come off.

[@slowboat6021]

thanks Robert really good over view of the situation. i fitted hooks to our tow cars recently and they make hooking up and unhitching so much easier.

[@sickdevs]

Great video, thanks. I'm currently using some hammer locks rated as 2T WLL / 8T BL without hooks. My trailer is only 1400kg ATM. The holes to secure the shackles are really tight on my Pajero towbar and the hammer locks are far easier to hitch up to using the shackles attached to the chain. From my previous research I believed they were legal as you can use them to extend safety chains or connect them to your trailer. FWIW I think the hooks are really ugly but can live with the hammerlocks. I had never seen the hooks attached to the chain as you showed at the end, they look interesting and hopefully you can get the bigger ones in future to test again...

[@Hemanfreeman536]

Great and detailed information. It’d be interesting to see what some insurance assessor’s would have to say. Ie; they might be the ones responsible for knocking back some insurance cover if an accident was caused due to an accident involving some of the connectors you’re referring to.

[@scottwilliams3266]

Another great video and thank you for all your effort and great explanations. I love the detail (I am a legislation tragic).

[@L2SFBC]

Thanks!

[@markkerin5699]

Very good. Now all of the weights and standards are clear as can be defined BUT all are related to one line of pull. Does this not then halve when using two chains as most trailers do. I know some caravans have one but it's usually considerably bigger.

[@ianmoore4327]

I asked someone why did they fitted the hammerlocks and hooks. “ It stops the patrol owners from stealing my shackles all the time” 😂

[@geoffwright7110]

a very good explanation for these joiners. I have some questions not touched upon, the attachment point on tow bars may be welded steel plate with holes, the material to the edge plus thickness has a design load limit due to shear and tear out. surely this is just as critical in the loading. Also hooks with spring closing clasps, may be subject to a roll out condition. this is explained in safety bulletins for working at height lanyard hooks. that is why they have locking clasps. question, if there are two chains, does this alter loading interpretation. Once again, a great presentation. cheers

[@andrewiannello6548]

Excellent summary 👌

[@ianmac2963]

Once again, excellent info and presentation. Thank you Robert. Should be compulsory viewing for ALL who tow!

[@L2SFBC]

Thank you please share 🙏

[@davidhowell5945]

Excellent analysis thank you Robert. Has clarified a lot of confusion for me. I would prefer hooks on my setup as space is really limited around my tow hitch for doing up shackles. Think I’ll wait for the Mawbey hooks in the right size. Thanks again.

[@L2SFBC]

Yes the Mawby looks like a decent product.

[@cyclemoto8744]

Great to see this presentation because I've had my suspicions about these hooks which appear to be increasing in popularity. Great idea for ease of use but I have not been prepared to switch due to the unknowns and not having had time to perform due diligence to confirm the legalities compared to rated old school shackles.

[@L2SFBC]

hopefully I saved you the trouble!

[@cyclemoto8744]

@@L2SFBC Indeed, thank you Robert

[@GrahamPorter-u6e]

Thanks Robert, you cleared up a lot of confusion, I appreciate it. It annoys me that the so called Government authorities can cop out by not giving a definitive Yes or No as to the legalities of the shackles, it's almost like they do not want to commit themselves to an answer but Poli Speak instead. keep up the great Videos. Kindest Regards Graham

[@boxheadmr]

Thanks Robert for the work putting this together. Great video and the evidence base approach makes it some much simpler.

[@L2SFBC]

Glad it was helpful!

[@michellebayly100]

Great Vid Robert! Sorry if I missed it, but have you found any reference stating you may only have one shackle per chain. Plenty of people believe this to be the case, but I can't find any authoritative reference limiting the number of shackles (you could probably build a chain entirely from shackles.....)

[@L2SFBC]

I have not found any such reference. The regulations are silent. Therefore, anyone who says yes or no to that is speculating and providing an opinion, not relaying the facts. I could very well interpret the regulations to say it's okay to have more than one, and nothing says you can't, so that's my view. However, I'd want to double-check with the authorities, and it was not a question I asked. Life's easy isn't it!

[@SALUTE-INT-S]

Great video. Best I have seen on the subject. I would just add something which is generally less relevant than it used to be, but by no means irrelevant. The quality control, method of manufacture (i.e. annealing etc) of the device has a very large impact on its shock load capability. You are absolutely correct from a regulatory point of view re shock loading. It can be ignored from that point of view. But in reality, the quality of the device, which can often be derived by the reputation and history of the company, makes a significant different to the actual resistance to shock loading, and hence in reality affects the meaning of these safety factors. Some will be much less than stated, even if they have been tested under shock loading which most haven't. The reason testing will not necessarily reveal the actual safety margins to shock loading in particular (and therefore overall safety if not legality) is that depending on the quality control procedures of the company who makes them, the individual resistance to a shock load of each link being tested will vary. Those made without the correct procedures - and too may to go into here - will have a much higher variance in their tolerance to Brittle failure under shock loading. For heavy industrial use, and this is 20 years ago so things have changed, we stuck to MacGregor lifting components. When we tested a few of the much cheaper Chinese ones they snapped like carrots and too far below the point at which they should have via reverse calculation. This was due to the brittleness' of the steel. Again, Chinese quality standards have changed since then. It is more hit and miss than usually miss. A suggestion would be to check the background, reputation, and where you can the length of time the company who manufactured the device has been in operation. However, an excellent video and really appreciate the level of detail you have gone into here.

[@L2SFBC]

Thank you, appreciate that thoughtful post!

[@CARBON10]

There's a new system now in (new Zealand) which utilises a cable from the tow bar to the hand brake of a braked trailer and is designed to shear leaving the trailer disconnected from the vehicle but with its h brake on fully, now you have a trailer smoking ing its way down the road and out of control, not to sure about this one

[@peterkovacs-qn3wz]

Hello Robert, Thank you for the research and indepth explanation. I'd like to have one question: what is the situation regarding the European style swiveling towbars? They have one safety chain connection point in the vertical centerline right below the ball. ADR 62 / 01 asks for two safety chain attachment points in 13.4.1, but regarding drawbars, it seems to be mandatory only above 2.5t (14.4.1.1.).

[@L2SFBC]

Sorry not familiar with those bars

[@jamesdigby-jones6960]

Hi Robert - Fab video. One question for clarity, so it's legal then to use two Hammerlocks with a hook on a chain as in 28:06 in the vid? The Hammerlock isn't counted as an extra connecting device?

[@stukaplane]

This is how all things should be with real facts, not how you feel like the current world system of wokeism. Thank you, Mr Pepper, for a very understanding explanation. I now feel confident in fitting my new Hammerlock and hook set.

[@wazza8687]

A question regarding the placement of the hooks. You have pictures of the hook on the chains. As far as I am aware, the chain needs to be AS4177 only(with the exception of hammerlocks for joining and extension chain). As the hooks are similar to D shackles in that they are used to connect the chains to the towbar. This would make connecting the hook to the chain illegal. The hook needs to be connected to the towbar with a hammerlock, not a d shackle(and not a stainless steel one, like in one of your photos. I would think this is the reason DIX Engineering had their hook tested to AS4177, so they can connect it to the safety chain.

[@L2SFBC]

Dix did not mention that to me. The unrated shackles shown are definitely wrong. The regulations do not cover this specific scenario so I'd go back to 1.5x atm.

[@ab7406]

This is from email from Dix, regarding Mawby hooks “ The Mawby Hook complies with the ADR 62/02 table 1 safety chain size selection. The Mawby hooks have been independently tested and have min breaking load between 5.4 - 5.6 Tonnes. The ADR requirement is 5.1 Tonnes. “

[@ab7406]

Have rated chains with stamps for 4177-35 and the Mawby hook fits the 13mm chains. Had mawby hooks now for couple of years

[@davewalmsley8883]

I'm sure I read that chains should not be 'extended' by the use of more than 1 shackle, so wouldn't that mean a hook plus a hammer lock is not suitable?

[@L2SFBC]

Hammerlocks are fine

[@officialWWM]

As a Tasmanian, trying to make sure I comply, I appreciate the work and effort you put into this video. Interestingly, I think any decent lawyer could get you off a ticket here with that ridiculous “Austria” typo 😂

[@L2SFBC]

I'd like to see it tested in court!

[@officialWWM]

@@L2SFBC me too. But I don’t really want to be the one to do it 😂😂

[@brigeteking4298]

Thank you for your well informed video. You are the only reliable channel with the correct information and you go to lengths to prove it and explain it well. Could you please tell us if it is legal to carry petrol in jerry cans in the holders on the rear bar of a caravan. I can’t get a straight answer from Vic roads or my insurance company. Your help would be appreciated.

[@L2SFBC]

I have not researched that question sorry.

[@SkylinersYeti]

I am in the US but still Love your videos. I have always wondered is my safety chain set up strong enough? The question is it safe enough should consider the entire system, Connector to the trailer itself, the chain, the chain connector to the hitch, the hitch it self and how well is the hitch attached to the vehicle? Keep up the good work and help viewer THINK.

[@craighanham8120]

Thanks for the well researched and presented material.

[@L2SFBC]

Glad it was helpful!

[@kenlewis2353]

Hi Robert. A very well presented video very informative. Just a query Ok we have all our towing chains and shackles etc and they all are Australia Standard as you have just talked about. My question what certificate or standard applies when the safety chain is "WELDED" onto the Frame, this could be done by anyone and be almost impossible to keep track of.

[@L2SFBC]

Can't answer that sorry, didn't inspect those regs.

[@kadmow]

very professional, methodical presentation. Quoting AS2741-2002 is great. AS2321-1979 "short link chain for lifting purposes". A4177 - Caravan and light trailer towing components. (WLL - or SWL - has more to do with "infinite life" under fatigue rather than than shock loading, nothing can really account for shockloading (how much energy was absorbed??) , lifting gear is rated for "steady state" crane work, NEVER shockload a crane/lifting system - terrible things happen. (if gear like this actually gets properly shockloaded - and deformed in any measurable way, it should be replaced. ) - just as the debate on towball heights (use another hitch, not a 50mm ball) - there are ways around the hassles with respect to light vehicles (just drive a 4.5T or higher GVM and all light vehicle rules are null and void). A hammer lock IS an interleaved, spring secured, pin shackle, or in US vernacular a symmetrical/reversible pin secured clevis. NOTHING in industry should have a breaking (MBS is terrible information) strength / stress - WLL is the "never exceed load limit, totally safe (6x safety factor when new) G70 - is transport rated - not for lifting.. (80 and higher are lifting rated - high alloy steel) Why were you using a 13mm chain in a fitting designed for 10mm chain? - lol... (not suitable) Under some interpretations (esp. by highway patrol) hammerlocks are "not permitted" as connectors for light vehicle safety chains - perfectly allowable in industry (as are safety hooks). PS, yes I have bought yellow safety hooks off george4x4, for putting on transport chain ends - to use as drag / lashing chains, rather than for the towbar (I prefer a ziptie or wire secured/moused shackle). The point of a fully closed "rigging" solution is that it is simple to see when it isn't done properly. Gate Hooks should also only really be used with a master link - they aren't designed to have chain placed over their tips ( and chain hooks aren't safe without lashing)- using such massive chain on a 2-3.5T trailer is a bit crazy. Gate secured hooks aren't great for this use, a safety hook is more robust - year in year out, the gate can't get damaged through improper use.

[@L2SFBC]

Thanks, informative comment. A 13mm chain is what's fitted to both my trailers in accordance with AS4177, that's why. Agree re WLL; I emphasied the shock load bit because there's 10,000 comments talking about shock load. I did mention to replace it on shock load. Highway Police are not allowed to interpret the regs any differently by making up their own rules...but I am aware they do, which I have found never to be malicious but the result of poor process.

[@allentrevena6841]

Pro.... I'll stick to shackles... But whats the old tail about crossing chains.

[@L2SFBC]

Cross them and shorten them.

[@dalehatton6965]

As a qualified rigger and also a mechanic who has fitted literally thousands of towbars, I also contacted many of the relevant authorities about using lifting hooks, yes, at the end of the day you can use them at your discretion, but you're an idiot if you do, in the event of a disconnect of the trailer from the towbar chains can whip and end up on the hook latch followed by failure of the latch. Legally, No matter what you use, if your connection fails that is apon you, it becomes your responsibility and if you kill someone as a result of failure it is entirely your fault, your responsibility and you will face prosecution as a result

[@L2SFBC]

Very true, thank you!

[@davidcarter5012]

Also, I had my van chains inspected (with AS 2741 rated bow shackles) by a mechanical engineer who is authorised by TMR Queensland and he told me that I was one of only few he had spoken to who any idea of the legislative requirements. A lot of grey nomads have no idea at all.

[@papa7745]

Thankyou for a very informative video backed up by regulations. A question on using 2 D shackles one attached to another. It is easier for me to have one shackle permanently attached to my motorhome to which I attach a second shackle. The trailer is a Dolly trailer towing a small car with ATM of 1.2 ton. Is it legal to use the 2 shackles attached together if they are AS2741, 1 ton shackles?

[@L2SFBC]

I don't see anything in the regulations precluding that, but nor do I see it explicitly permitted. I think it'd be hard to argue it is unsafe as the overall breaking strength of the chain system is within limits assuming chain and shackles are appropriately sized, so there's that.

[@AquaMarine1000]

Thanks Robert, for a great informative video. This reply is not to challenge the safety standards, but some life observations. At the point when a towed trailer becomes disconected, both the vehicle and trailer are travelling at the same speed. In this case, the vehicle and trailer should be slowly brought to rest. In my experience the chains have taken the towball weight. I know of a caravan a-frame fracture leaving only the LPG copper pipe connecting the two halves of the trailer chassis. Both the vehicle and van were brought safely to rest. I suggest the loading on the safety chains are minimal. These standards suggest they are taken from lifting standards, the overcoming the force of gravity. Gravity is a minimal force on vehicles through road gradient standards. It would be interesting to know how the regulators came to their trailer safety chain standards. Has there been any real world strain gauge tests? Cheers

[@L2SFBC]

Well, if you look at trailer sway crashes then there is significant force on the chains. I have no idea how the calculations were done to arrive at the figures in ADR62...only so much detail I could go into!

[@AquaMarine1000]

@L2SFBC Thanks for your reply. If this is the case, the towball coupling has failed. This should have a design review. Safety back-up devices should be of last resort.

[@philhealey4443]

As a non-Australian, it seems amazing that there is not one cohesive set of national regulations for this and all other aspects of motoring life. UK seems to manage without separate English, Northern Ireland, Welsh and Scottish vehicle regulations apart from a few HGV speed limit variations for Scotland.

[@L2SFBC]

It's amazing to us too. Imagine having different MoT criteria, learner license rules, modification rules, towing rules etc etc from Surrey to Sussex to Kent.. each having their own legislation!

[@stephenhunter70]

What is also amazing to anyone in the know is that our standards are published by a (now) American publisher and not a Australian publisher.

[@LouiseBye-y1n]

Thank you for the video. Like you we found our chain too big for the Mawby hook. Would it be legal to attach the hook to the chain with a D Shackle.

[@iamurage]

for you to research get you hand on the NSW guide for Rigging. This book lists all the relevant figures for lifting chains,wire slings, hooks, shackles. All to be used for lifting via cranes, winches lever blocks etc. This does not lay down any rules or guides for towing. Memory tells me one place they state never use lifting equipment for towing, because of the shock loading of equipment when towing.

[@L2SFBC]

I think that means "if it's been used for towing then don't use it for lifting ever again" not "you can never use anything designed for lifting for towing"

[@iamurage]

@@L2SFBC I stand corrected. I did not mean to deceive.

[@MichaelWaghorne]

You quoted several standards plus ADR 62/01, yet you failed to quote ADR Circular 0-1-3 or ADR 62 Circulars which have detailed requirements. In relation to breaking strengths there is one required for safety chains and the safety chain anchor points are also required to meet. Also many safety chains for trailers up to 3.5-tonne are welded to trailer drawbars, in 99% of them they welded. This is actually not correct, however provided the trailer manufacture can prove the testing where it will not fail in all 6 directions of loading then it maybe considered safe, the problem is welding introduces hydrogen which tends to create inbrittlement of the material where it can fail under high shock loads. There nothing in AS 4177 that's permits welding of safety chains. The chains should be attached at both ends with rated anchor points or rated attachments like rated D - Shackles that have the required stamping as per ADR Circular 0-1-3 for trailers up to 3.5-tonne rating.

[@L2SFBC]

Watch again. 0-1-3 is covered. I didn't go over attaching chain to trailer at all by intent.

[@Excitedtobehere]

Looking forward to this Robert 👍🏼

[@kathyl67]

Great video Robert! The regulators could do with your help as far as wording goes it seems.

[@L2SFBC]

Wouldn't even need anyone with technical skills for a first pass, just simple grammar and edits for clarity.

[@kathyl67]

@@L2SFBC 100% agree!

[@ak23995]

I call them Ute Balls... as they dangle around like ..... when not connected to a trailer 🤣