Are Tolkien's Lord of the Rings Movies & Series using the WRONG WEAPONS?

[@scholagladiatoria]

Get Exclusive NordVPN deal here ➼ nordvpn.com/scholagladiatoria It's risk-free with Nord's 30-day money-back guarantee! ✌

[@Ferario1990]

Great video, thanks for the insights. This discussion also works for other fantasy concepts such as in video games like Warhammer vermintide. This game is also about fighting against large groups of enemies like orks, goblins/ratmen, demons, giants, etc, so it can be relevant to LotR's setting. This discussion about what weapon to pick also happens regularly among players since we must face mixed groups of enemies regularly. When dealing with large groups of unarmored troops with an unknown amount of armored troops mixed in, you really want to maximize the effectiveness of the primary weapon you are using against both types of units. You'd want to either have a light weapon that's good for speed and quickly killing light armored enemies while still being ok for killing or disabling that heavy armored foe long enough to at least get away from them, or have a moderately heavy weapon with good range so you can support a teammate at your front while being powerful enough to stagger any heavy armored foe you encounter long enough for your teammate to finish the job or get to a safer position. Ideally you'd have a small team of solders each with different weapon outfits which fulfill dedicated rolls. Going head on while solo vs a fully functional or atleast fully armed army is simply suicide. You want to be effective for most situations but you simply can't be 100% effective vs all types of enemies by yourself no matter how many cold weapons you carry. Having backup to cover your weaknesses will let you be more effective in your dedicated roll while leaving your counter enemies to others. Teamwork and good taticts can possibly overcome overwhelming odds. Someone with a sword and buckler can defend your archers at the back from getting mobbed while a Spearman behind him can cover his openings and protect his flanks, the heavy armored greatsword user will be at the front facing the hoard to thin out their numbers quickly while the archer at the back will cover him by taking out their ranged troops or picking off high value targets like commanders or mages. A well oiled team can out perform a difference in numbers with enough teamwork and skill, especially against lightly trained, low intelligence targets who rely on numbers to overwhelm their foes. Stamina becomes the issue in a small group as each person will carry many times more load than their opponents, but with the right setup they might even defeat 10 times their on numbers. You want to maximize the efficiency for each role so that you spend the least effort for the max effect whenever possible. If you are solo vs a hoard of mixed enemies, it's not easy to keep switching weapons in a game, let alone in real life where any number of things can go wrong at any moment. You can't have the right tool for the job always ready to be deployed and not face complications. Your main priority in that kind of situation should be to stay alive first, and kill things second. Your primary fighting style should be to create openings for yourself, and to keep moving and to kite your opponents to avoid getting hemmed in. If you must stand your ground for some reason, you want to make sure to cut off as many lines of attack for your enemy as possible by having something behind you like a wall or a tree, heading to higher ground to cut off high attacks, having a trench, barricade, wall, fallen log, etc. in front of you to block low attacks from pesky goblins, etc. It will be far more important to have free mobility to move around their army, than to have a great sword when you are being surrounded on all sides. Yes you could spin the sword around so no one gets close, but if they all rush at you with spears or decide to pile up on you to slow you down, you will die pretty quickly. They could also shoot at you of course, but you're probably going to be in armor so it might mitigate some of it, though a lot of damage could still go through. Ideally you'd want either a dual wielding weapon set or a long reach weapon that is capable of cleaving through or pushing aside multiple light armored enemies while also having a strong enough thrust point to get through a decent amount of armor and nimble enough to target weak points. Very few weapons come to mind which could have a strong enough swing to cut through two or even three enemies in light armor while also being nimble enough to target weak points and strong enough to go through mail or padded armor, let alone plate armor or thick troll hide. A few weapons like the kriegsmesser, trishul/swordstaff/hooked glaive style polearm, or short weapons like sword/axe/rapier and shield, dual short sword/sword and dagger, axe and armor, etc. come to mind in terms of surviving a hoard for a longer period of time, but each weapon also has it's disadvantages when it comes to either killing higher amounts if enemies, defending yourself while attacking, or just the stamina cost to keep fighting for the minutes, hours, or even days on end you would need to with minimal rest. The top candidates for it are I think the great sword types like the kriegsmesser or claymore, the long bladed pole arms like swordstaff or long spear, or the short and powerful weapons like the light axe/ falcion and piercing dagger for armor with a shield, or a Dane axe with enough armor to ignore missiles. Ranged weapons should be the secondary weapons since you must find advantageous positions to take out key targets, but it's hard to make it be a primary weapon since you are constantly on the move and can't always be sure to pickup dropped arrows while running for your life. It's also hard to have a large weapon like a pole arm or great sword and use any other weapon since you might have to drop the big weapon to switching but suddenly have to run away because you were being surrounded. In melee range, you have to be able to rely on your main weapon and your own skill to keep your freedom and kill your enemies. Switching weapons is very risky and can leave you open to attacks at a bad moment. It could be an option when using one handed weapons or things which are easy to carry without using your hands, but generally you want to prioritize mobility and reach to stay alive. Overall I think mobility and effective tactics are more important than your singular weapon choice, as long as it's good enough to kill what you want to kill without tiring you unnecessarily. A good position and the right tools can kill even the toughest opponents and enough distance from the hoard will let you choose your own battles instead of being dragged into the meatball of doom.

[@johannesmichaelalhaugthoma4215]

The classical Roman legion kit would have a good amount of versatility for the various kinds of opponents, with the pilum useful against large monsters like trolls and wargs while the scutum and gladius would be effective for bullrushing smaller and weaker opponents while maintaining stamina, particularly if supplemented by plumbata or similar weapon for dealing with multiple opponents just out of reach, as well as the large scutum negating the goblins arrows. Also, the practice of the legion having its own mobile artillery, i.e. ballistas, would also be very useful for dealing with the fewer, larger, more robust creatures in a goblin army.

[@joshuatempleton9556]

shout out to being on josh gates expedition unknown the other night.

[@fightforaglobalfirstamendm5617]

It's just woke drivel there's not alot of point looking at the TV show because they're not even accurate to Tolkien let alone reality and physics.

[@mathewvanlonden8310]

Talking about not being able to keep wearing armor for a prolonged period of time. Tolkien actually mentions this in the books, mentioning that the only members of the party wearing armor are Frodo, because of the lightness of mithril and Gimli, because his dwarfish constitution allows him to do it, without being at a major dissadvantage

[@MonkeyJedi99]

I also think that similarly, they did not load up with numerous weapons because they were already carrying food, water, clothing, cooking and eating gear, ropes, a few basic tools, and more. All with only one pack pony. They were also trusting more to stealth and speed than force of arms. Or at least that was their plan. - And with different people in the fellowship carrying different weapons, you did have some degree of flexibility already. Lots of pesky goblins? Four nimble halflings, an elf and a man with quicker weapons. Inrushing foes? An elf and a man with bows. Big beastie? A dwarf with a hefty axe and a man with a longsword. Sure, not as "perfect" as everyone carrying a bow AND a quick weapon AND a shield AND a weapon for big beasties. But how many pack animals would that lead to?

[@mathewvanlonden8310]

@@MonkeyJedi99 absolutely true, I really like how thought out the things they took with them are, there is an actual good reason for why they didn't all just suit up in full armor and it is also an opurtunity to chracterise gimly and the dwarves more.

[@anaussie213]

@@MonkeyJedi99 well the hobbits don't contribute much to the action in the books, it's really all on Aragorn, Boromir, Legolas, gimli and then Gandalf to keep them safe.

[@elijahoconnell]

in ttt when the hunters are laying boromir to rest, its mentioned that his maille and helm are laid with him. this could be from the gear that the hunters collected from the dead orcs, but i dont think so because its mentioned that they lay all of that into a mound

[@Antonovich74]

As the professor might say: I believe that should be “dwarven”, not “dwarfish”.

[@joshuascott5814]

I’m so glad you mentioned that fact that the armor in the book is chain mail vs the plate armor of the Peter Jackson films, because it’s definitely true. One thing I’ll say about Aragorn carrying a long sword is that Narsil was originally made for Elves of the First Age who were very tall (7’ or better according to some notes by Tolkien) and later wielded by Elendil (called “the Tall” because he was 7’11”!), whereas Tolkien’s idea of Aragorn was 6’6”, so even a one-handed sword made for those taller specifications would probably be at leas Mt a bastard sword for him. As far as effectiveness, when the Fellowship sets out from Rivendell the narrator specifically noted they took little war gear because they were relying on stealth, with only Gimli (the tough and enduring Dwarf) wearing any armor. Great video!

[@willek1335]

Mr. Mortensen is 5'11 (180cm), imagine 6'6'' (2 meter) tall Viggo Mortensen wielding the movie version of Narsil. I can get behind that.

[@video-rgb-es]

You beat me, Joshua! To add more context, Glamdring was the sword of Turgon, one of the tallest person on Middle Earth ever, second (or third?) only to Elu Thingol. A two-handed sword made for Turgon would be so massive that Gandalf, who is described as "short", would not be able to use it alongside his staff. Also, Narsil comes from Thingol's armory, so again, it cannot be two-handed, it would be too big. Great video! I agree with everything.

[@RogerS1978]

Glamdring and Orcrist were made by elves in the first age, Narsil was made by a dwarf along with the knife Angrist and Turin's Dragon helm (edit spelling)

[@peterszyszkiewicz5445]

That being said, Aragorn had 60+ years of combat and survival experience under his belt, so I can only imagine how good he would be with any weapon he could pick up. When he gets to the war he does start wearing Rohirric armor. Source material mentions that Legolas’ now was a 200 lbs draw and he got armor in the book as well. If the movie makers did the Gondorian and Rohirrim armies historical and practical justice, I think we would have seen more butt kicking on their part.

[@joshuascott5814]

@Joe Becker I didn’t say that it was forged by an elf, just that it was forged *for* elves.

[@blakewinter1657]

A remark on the technology: Tolkien envisioned a world in which technology was lost over time, rather than innovations leading to improvements. So it might make sense for longer and more durable swords to be older, and by the time of the LotR trilogy itself, the technology would have fallen to a lower level (except perhaps in Gondor, which might retain some Numenorean lore).

[@laramyelliott2903]

Exactly what I was going to say. Matt's "migration era" estimate is probably spot on for Rohan. Gondor on the other hand is essentially a post-apocalyptic remnant of the more advanced civilization, Numenor. People associated with that civilization will have access to tech that others don't which is why Aragorn has a long sword

[@Robert399]

That sort of happened in real history with the fall of Rome and the Bronze Age Collapse. I think those are far more realistic influences than the Late Medieval period.

[@iapetusmccool]

@@laramyelliott2903 so maybe: Rohan should use migration-era equipment, and Gondor should use Byzantine equipment?

[@joshm3484]

I agree, but considering Tolkien's areas of interest, I've always viewed Middle Earth as post-Roman Europe, where much technology and arcane knowledge was lost, but where everyday and often used knowledge, such as how to forge a blade, continued to advance (though at a slower pace).

[@ZemplinTemplar]

Tolkien explicitly said that the Third Age is the most "medium aeveum" (i.e. "medieval") of the three main ages described in his Legendarium. That includes the decline of technological knowledge and the decline of certain once-great polities by the time of the late Third Age. The Fourth Age might have once again reversed the trend, though that coincided with another period of transition from a "more magical" world to an ever more mundane, ever more "historical" world.

[@zgd100]

In the books it seems like a significant portion of the combat took place in relatively cramped spaces (e.g., caves, tunnels, dense forest, mines, ruins, etc.) with the occasional set piece battle thrown in. Something like a zweihander that looks good on paper for a battle becomes much less useful if there's no room to swing in most of the places where combat happens.

[@randlebrowne2048]

Not to mention the fact that it would be pretty awkward to carry around for long distances, especially while trying to be sneaky.

[@rojack79er]

Eh actually with all of the places they fought the only place it wouldn't work would be a place were you can't use any weapon at all. Cause all of the places they fought weren't that cramped as to restrict a greatswords use.

[@jacobmoore6874]

U could use half swording to maeiver tight spaces. But I think the Zweihander would be the best 1 weapon setup. U can manuever them alot quicker than u think with practice. And it has more than enough left for chopping heavily armored or lager foes without being large to the point ot exhaustion. They're only 3 lbs at most 4. Just long

[@mcdiscret9632]

Just use it like a spear then 🤷‍♂️

[@texasbeast239]

Then cast aside your great sword for a moment, and draw your arming sword/handaxe and shield. Remember to grab your great weap on the way out.

[@AnEnemySpy456]

Boromir actually does use his shield whenever possible in the movie. In Moria you can see him using it in Balin's tomb but later on in the battle of Amon Hen he had left it with the boats which is why he doesn't have it there.

[@Bastardson_]

Thanks. I going to point that out but if nobody else had. If I remember right, Sean Bean even uses the shield properly, always keeping it up in front of him during combat, which you don't always see in popular media.

[@Runegrem]

@@Bastardson_ You mean how they usually use the shield as a kind of counterweight to the sword?

[@Bastardson_]

@@Runegrem Hah, yep.

[@leepretorius4869]

Wow his lust for the ring probably made him neglect to take the shield with which left him vulnerable…

[@dauritas1460]

In the film version only "his broken sword they to the water brought" because his cloven shield has left the chat.

[@moleman7632]

One argument against the sword and shield as the predominant weapon is the geography of middle earth: It is a world where the vast majority of the land is unoccupied. In modern terms it is a more fit comparison to Eastern siberia than to europe, the towns are extremely distant from one another and the landscape is difficult to traverse at best. In such a world EVERY gram of extra weight and encumbrance for a traveler is either an active hindrance or it is replacing the supplies they need to carry. So in a simple example like this, would you want a shield (2kg or so perhaps?) or roughly 4 days more food. And since in LotR in particular the main characters were intending to travel over uninhabited lands and rely on secrecy over military might, taking a weapon that is easy to carry like a sword, or practical like a bow is of far better use than carrying a set of armour that they wouldn't need for 99.999% of the journey. However in the books Gimli for example is said to walk wearing a mail shirt constantly and to carry several axes, which highlights the biological differences you have already discussed.

[@VK-sz4it]

I think, best comment.

[@zoiders]

I think you are over estimating the size of the population of Europe in the middle ages and under estimating how empty it was. Huge swathes of France are empty. The highlands of Scotland take a week to traverse on foot. The Welsh mountains aren't much easier. The moors have a bleak bare arse harshness that you have to see to understand.

[@hafor2846]

@@zoiders Middle Earth is worse though. It's almost post-apocalyptic and it kinda is, if you look at places like the former kingdom of Arnor. E.g., they travel 40 days from Rivendell to Moria and only then are entering an area that's inhabited, and even that, Rhudaur, is very empty and sparsely settled. Medieval Europe isn't crowded, but 40 days straight through it, never meeting anone?

[@adambielen8996]

@@hafor2846 absolutely. Medieval Europe might be sparsely populated by modern standard but it wasn't league upon leagues of wilderness.

[@wolfensniper4012]

Yes it will be easier if they have extra carriage or pack animals Though I can't remember the reason why they didn't in the books, maybe complex landscapes?

[@Sarigar]

Another consideration, applicable only to Middle-Earth, is that many of the heroes' weapons (Glamdring, Narsil/Anduril, and Sting, primarily) were all enchanted or crafted in ways that made them more effective against orcs, goblins, and other dark beings (at the very least, psychologically more effective). In that case, it would probably make sense to carry a weapon that your opponents were terrified at the sight of, even if it wasn't the ideal weapon for every situation.

[@c.r.blankenship9040]

I do believe the elven swords are supposed to be lighter, too

[@mindstalk]

Magic weapons in Tolkien can often cut metal like wood.

[@slome815]

@@mindstalk Where in any of his books does that happen? I certainly can't remember it in LOTR of the Silmarillion. And about those magic weapons, I have seen that argument a couple of times now when talking about Aragorn parrying that troll sword with Anduril at the black gates. But really, it's not in the books that any of those famous swords give any kind of superpower to the wielder. The most magic a weapon is ever described is Sting glowing blue. Yeah, certain blades are ancient, made by the elves, etc, some might even be of Mithril, but thats about it. Even Narsil is never described as being anything magic. It's a symbol of the King of Gondor and Arnor, and orks are terrified of it, but thats mainly because of it's reputation, it did cut off Saurons ring after all. Even at the men of Dunharrow only follow Aragorn because he is the rightful king, not because of Anduril. If I remember correctly Aragorn parrying the dead king's sword is also movie only.

[@mindstalk]

@@slome815 "Beren despoiled him of his gear and weapons, and took his knife, Angrist. That knife was made by Telchar of Nogrod, and hung sheathless by his side; iron it would cleave as if it were green wood." -- Silmarillion "Then Beleg chose Anglachel; and that was a sword of great worth, and it was so named because it was made of iron that fell from heaven as a blazing star; it would cleave all earth-delved iron" -- Silmarillion "And from the blade rang a cold voice in answer: ‘Yea, I will drink thy blood gladly, that so I may forget the blood of Beleg my master, and the blood of Brandir slain unjustly. I will slay thee swiftly.’ " -- Silmarillion "But even as the orc flung down the truncheon and swept out his scimitar, Andúril came down upon his helm. There was a flash like flame and the helm burst asunder." -- Fellowship "Very bright was that sword when it was made whole again; the light of the sun shone redly in it, and the light of the moon shone cold" -- Fellowship "the bright blade of Andúril shone like a sudden flame as he swept it out" -- Towers "Andúril rose and fell, gleaming with white fire." -- Towers "three times Andúril flamed in a desperate charge that drove the enemy from the wall." -- Towers "with a clink-clink of chains... It made no trouble whatever of cutting through the goblin-chains and setting all the prisoners free as quickly as possible. This sword’s name was Glamdring the Foe-hammer" -- Hobbit So that's mulitple blades that can cut metal easily. Frodo also uses Sting to hurt a troll on which Boromir's blade had bounced off. And Sting and Glamdring don't just glow randomly, they glow specifically in response to the presence of orcs.

[@nikmenn2751]

@@slome815 well, blades of Arnor were specially made against undead and are the only weapons, besides, perhaps, elven swords and Narsil/Anduril, that can slay barrow-wight or even cripple a Nazgul, because other weapons could not do any harm to a ghost. Moreover, Anduril's ability to slay one of Oathbreakers was actually the only way, ruler of Dunharrow recognised Rightful King of Dunedain.

[@alistairgrey5089]

This video illustrates perfectly why mixed unit tactics in a fantasy setting would be absolutely devastating. With trolls, uruk-hai, orcs, goblins, olifants, fellbeasts, etc, you could combine those into attacking formations for which there is no solid defense. Just keeping trolls and orcs in a single unit able to counter various weapon types would be hard to counter. If the trolls are coming up first you might try and form a shield wall with spears or other polearms but then the trolls can slow down and the orcs can charge ahead instead. Fantasy tactics become much more complex than real world tactics and almost start to mirror modern tactics. With the trolls taking the roll of armor or mechanized units, flying units for air superiority, orcs for basic infantry, olifants for shock tactics, etc. The possibilities for various tactics are truly remarkable.

[@hosurosh4846]

You can play battle of the middle earth 2 mod "Edain Mod" where you have all this type of units base on the books and with specialty like heavy armour or armur special for heavy armour units. Example you have the normal orcs that are numerous and can create heavy armored Molgurs Orcs that are fewer but resist a lot and poison orcs for extra damage to normal units. The same as Gondor you have a Sword fighter of the sub kingdoms of Gondor with short sharped sword and shield for double damage to trash mobs units and the heavy armored Gondorians from Minas Thirit for pure defensive. value.

[@lostalone9320]

Mixed units always suffer from not having good formations though, and they generally don't work well against organised armies. Everyone in this horde is vulnerable to arrows, so blocks of archers will be hugely effective. And because it's a mixed unit they can't even bunch up temporarily. And then the various warbeasts are not disciplined - They won't just stop if told to. They will crush their friends in an attempt to complete their headlong charge. Or run away, or really anything they like. And what happens to all of the guys who are actually poorly armed for the encounter they find themselves in? Maybe the Olifant fancies his chances, but the Goblin clearly is not happy about being herded to charge a block of spearmen, that even if he had a spear he couldn't reach on account of being stunty. When we do see mixed units working they tend to be not really very mixed - We see blocks of men who all have some sort of polearm, for example. Alternatively we see formations like the Tercio, combining melee and firearms, but this rapidly developed into more and more firearms with just enough pikemen to fend off cavalry, and the swordsmen were forgotten about. And then the bayonet combines the two and now it's no longer a mixed formation. Formation matters so much. And the real value of the beasts is that they break up formations when they impact them. But they also break up YOUR formation. You can't form tight ranks, and you can't receive a charge well.

[@alistairgrey5089]

@@lostalone9320 first off, that's not what mixed unit tactics means. But also, why would you have the beasts with the front line of infantry? Shouldn't you be treating them like cavalry instead and flanking the enemy?

[@elladrinn4318]

Also, if we consider Games Workshop "fake" units (units not mentioned in books or only with single or brief lines) then most races have a battlefield seige engine aka Dwarven ballista or gondorian avenger bolt thrower. these dont exist in books but would absolutely be something these cultures would have (Dwarves having a ballista is particularly believable and Gondor using old Numenorean seige equipment that we do see on old ships, which the Pirates of Umbar used on the Black Ships)

[@Tareltonlives]

And we actually see that in films: Sauron is really fond of using troll shock troops since they just blast through the Gondor and Iron Hills spear formations and the orcs just spill in. The dwarves are pretty ready for the elf fight with ram cavalry, scythe chariots with repeating crossbows, ballistae, and a pike formation. There's some interesting combined arms in the book: wargs fighting alongside orcs and orcs atop wargs on a grand scale rather than the smaller fights in the films, and the Haradrim fight with first a cavalry screen with the infantry guarding the mumakil. We see a little of that at Ithlien in the films, but the Haradrim kinda lose total cohesion at the archery ambush. I like that the films introduce a lot more uses of trolls, the dwarves as less one-dimensional, and there's artillery used by the dwarves, Dale, Minas Tirith and the orcs. The attack on Minas Tirith has a big variety of siege engines vs trebuchets, and Sauron counters them in turn with his flying units. All Sauron needs is a good cavalry force like he had in the book and he'd have a really good army. And really the best general we get in the films is Azog who uses all the resources at his disposal and is winning the battle handily.

[@toddellner5283]

Considering Tolkien's professional background it is almost inevitable that he was thinking of something like that First Millennium CE British/Northern European/Saxon image. That period and culture were sea the Professor swam in for his entire life. It's what he researched, lectured, and wrote poetry in. 15th century plate armor, longswords and all the rest just weren't part of that world. When he draws magical warriors in Smith of Wootten Major - not LOTR but it gives an idea of his thoughts - they are wearing scale. The apex of armor technology in Farmer Giles of Ham is chain, and you need to see the dwarves about that. "But fantasy tropes!" I hear some people say. Yes. About that. JRRT didn't follow the tropes. Like Morris or Cabell or Dunsany he came before and created what grew into them. And his scholarly and aesthetic roots were from an earlier time with earlier arms and armor.

[@Blokewood3]

This makes sense considering how much Beowulf was an inspiration to Tolkien.

[@realhorrorshow8547]

Farmer Giles of Ham has whatever is available, rings sown on leather, rather than linked chain mail. "Ringing and jingling like Canterbury bells". If I recall. An overlooked Tolkienian hero, who deserves a film of his own.

[@toddellner5283]

@@realhorrorshow8547 I loved that part. No armorer. No armor. Just the blacksmith sewing whatever rings were handy onto a leather coat. I would love to see a FGoH animated film.

[@MrChickennugget360]

you don't need dwarves to get mail. All the Races use that technology once you get past the very beginning of the First Age.

[@toddellner5283]

@@MrChickennugget360 Farmer Giles of Ham was not set in Middle Earth

[@ycplum7062]

Just an additional consideration. The armament (and armor) of a line unit would be extremely different from that of a small group on a quest. The group on a quest would be similar to scouts (more akin to Long Range Reconnaisance Patrol) or deep penetration commandos. As such, I do not believe their kit would be geared toward fighting a large group. They should be avoiding all contact with enemy elements as much as possible. On contact, their primary goal would be to disengage, evade, and escape. The one exception would occur if they have to infiltrate a camp or fortress. Consequently, any armor should be minimal and any shields light, to facilitate quick movement, especially through woods. This would also eliminate large polearms, although a short spear may be useful. This would also exclude a large two-handed sword, although a hand-and-a-half sword would be a good compromise of size and striking power. I see missile weapons to include a very powerful composite shortbow or crossbow. They are a good compromise between ease of carry (through woods) and power against large creatures. I don't believe range is critical. If the enemy is distant, you evade. I think tower shield, full plate and a bardiche would not be appropriate for a quest through enemy territory. LOL

[@StutleyConstable]

I was thinking along similar lines but more 18th century than your commandos. Mountain men and long hunters of the North American Frontier would be a good comparison, don't you think? Them and the native tribes they would encounter. Regardless, your point holds together very well and I agree.

[@joshridinger3407]

in other words, more or less exactly how they're equipped in the books.

[@Blokewood3]

That is a very good analysis. I'm trying to think now if this "evasive scout" mentality fits most other adventuring parties.

[@andrewsuryali8540]

Historically in our real world, adventurers and quests did exist in Europe, in the form of the knights-errant and their travelling. While it sounds cool, realistically most of these were just roaming mercenaries drawn from the military landowning class. As such, a real-life, historically accurate questing party of adventurers would have been a knight-errant and his retinue. This would have consisted of at the minimum the knight, his horse, his squire, and if they're lucky a second horse or a donkey. However, from historical mentions of such retinue, it could also include a few servants, some specialist fighting men, and even the knight's wife and kids. At the extreme end it could be a knight, his family and servants, and his personal small army of fighting men complete with wagons and extra horses.

[@Bastardson_]

@HoboMaster They weren't expecting to encounter most of those things (wargs or trolls at the very worst). The movies make it look like the Balrog was something everybody knew about, and the Fellowship just blundered in there. In the book, Moria was thought to be at best abandoned, and at worst inhabited/ruled by orcs. Against anything bigger than a troll, there's probably nothing they could have brought that would be any help, except for specific things like Galadriel's phial against Shelob.

[@williamstapp1851]

As far as the type of armor and variations that exists in Tolkien's world it is important to remember the free races are estranged all of the nations are isolated with the exception of Rohan and Gondor. As a result you don't have the general progression of technology that occurs in our world.

[@cammoblammo]

It was quite the opposite-technology was actually regressing. There are quite a few times where it’s noted that the ability to create such and such a building or artefact had passed on.

[@robhogg68]

Yes, I agree. In fact, on the "Middle Earth Weapons and Armour in Middle Earth". Wikipedia page, it says that "In Letter 211 of The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, the author compared the war-gear of the Rohirrim to the Bayeux Tapestry, made during the Norman Conquest of Anglo-Saxon England", and I can recall no mention of plate armour, but several explicit mentions of mail. Beyond Gimli's mail shirt, and Frodo's, made of mithril, when Pippin is fitted out in "the livery and gear of the Tower [of Minas Tirith]", it specifically says "he had a small hauberk, its rings forged of steel", and does not suggest that this gear is any different to that of the men of the guard, except in size. What I would like to see you take on is the battle before the gates of Mordor in Return of the King. The way Jackson portrayed it always rankled with me. In the book, there are tactics: The armies of the West are drawn up on two small hills, "and about each hill a ring was made facing all ways, bristling with sword and spear" While it is not explicity stated, in my mental image they form a shield wall. In the description of the attack it does say, though, that the trolls "beat upon helm and head, and helm and arm and shield". These are tactics that make sense for a force which is vastly outnumbered. In the movie, of course, we have Aragorn leading that stupidly heroic, or herocially stupid, charge which (as I see it) would guarantee they'd all be slaughtered in minutes.

[@carlcramer9269]

I second this. In the story about the fall of Isildur, it is mentioned that the orcs rabbed the shields of the high men and pulled them out of formation, which very strongly suggests a shield wall.

[@crazypetec-130fe7]

I remember one passage, when Prince Imrahil of Dol Amroth discovers Eowyn on the battlefield, he notices that her breath fogs the polished steel of his vambrace. So JRRT did mention at least one piece of plate armor.

[@NOOBATRON-bs4jo]

for me i would be fine with either cause in the movie i like how like you say the charge will have them slaughtered in min, it really feels like if frodo dosent destroy the ring fast they and especialy aragon will die against that troll

[@robhogg68]

@@NOOBATRON-bs4jo Except the purpose of their stand they make was to keep Sauron's attention directed away from his lands. And, as they did not know exactly when Frodo and Sam will reach the Cracks of Doom, they would want to keep him and his forces distracted as long as possible. If the hobbits had not been at Orodruin, and they had been defeated quickly, with Sauron discovering that neither Aragorn nor Gandalf had the ring, then Sauron might have suspected it was a diversion and turned his attention to the Plains of Gorgoroth. Essentially, their task was like that of the Greeks at Thermopylae - to hold as long as possible. And in the book, like the Greeks, they adopt tactics which reduce the advantage of the enemy's numbers.

[@NOOBATRON-bs4jo]

@@robhogg68 yeah that is big true i forgot they couldnt have known where he was

[@F_Karnstein]

Adding a linguistic approach (because Tolkien): We may not get details in the stories, but there's quite a variety in elvish sword terminology as known from the linguistic material Tolkien wrote. The usual word for "sword" (macil or megil, depending on the variety of Elvish) is sometimes glossed as "long sword" or even "great sword" and there is the specific term 'andamacil' that literally translates to "longsword", so we do know that longer varieties aren't unheard of in this world. There is even another term (sangahyando/haðathang) translated "throng-cleaver" that most people take for an unused proper name, but it has a striking similarity to German "Gassenhauer" (lit. "gap cleaver"), so maybe even a zweihänder type sword to literally cleave a gap into the throng of enemies can be imagined? There are also several terms translated "cleaver" or even "cutlass", so the single bladed curved weapons the movie elves use also might not be outside the realm of possibilities, even though Tolkien only once mentions a specifically curved elvish blade - precisely BECAUSE it was unusual. One source mentions something specifically translated "short broad-bladed sword" and "short stabbing sword". So however Tolkien might have imagined the sword aspect in his creation, I think its safe to assume or imagination should not be too limited.

[@iivin4233]

The maker of Sting probably named Sting, Sting for a reason. It's the size of a dagger for anyone other than a hobbit and orc detection is a utility that would make it a good survival knife. I think the earliest elvish weapons would be interesting to see. I wonder what Morgoth taught the elves in secret. Did he give them specific weapon designs or did he teach them the science of violence? Did he simply frighten them with rumors allowing elvish minds to invent their own weapons and defenses as they had their own enemies?

[@FatherEli]

​@@iivin4233 The maker of Sting didn't name it though, Bilbo did. Or the descendants of Ungoliant in Mirkwood did.

[@F_Karnstein]

As far as Tolkien wrote about such matters there was no direct contact between Morgoth and elves before Valinor, but he "filled the night with terrors" (so that fear of the dark is explained) and we might guess that those were reason enough to at least consider using tools like axes against such creatures. Another interesting aspect into elvish minds concerning weapons is the fact that in one branch of Elvish the words for axes and spears seem to refer not to the whole construction but to the metal blades only. Like they considered wooden shafts not part of the weapon as such but rather a necessary accessory or something...

[@brettevill9055]

I have long thought that it was very odd that, when he encountered the hobbits at Bree, Strider was carrying the shards of Narsil in his scabbard. A precious treasure that is moreover _broken_ seems unsuitable equipment for patrolling the wilderness. My private head-canon is that he had just fetched it from a place of safe-keeping, such as a settlement of the Dunedain in the Lhûn valley, and was taking it to Rivendell to be re-forged.

[@wiikinger76]

Yes. Imagine he would have been forced to fight the Nazgul in Bree or swinging the torch wasn't enough on Weathertop (dont remember anymore if this scene is comparable to the book). He knew the enemy was probably after Frodo and the Ring so ... why go unarmed? And regarding survival in the wild lateron: how is he going to hunt for the Hobbits or the Fellowship with only his sword? So at least he must have been equipped with a bow, a dagger (for skinning and preparing the meat) and some kind of melee weapon for fights from the beginning. This is why I like the idea of Aragorn having another sword with him (at least until Andúril was reforged). And regarding "carrying the shards in his scabbard": Am I the only one who has to always grin when trying to imagine how Aragorn gets the shards out of the scabbard when presenting it? Like "Wait a second boys....I just have ... to turn it over.....and ...err....throw the shards on the bed. Otherwise I would cut my hand, if I would let them just fall in my open hand, right?" XD

[@ondrejvasak1054]

Nice thoughts, but don't forget that at the time we meet Aragorn, he is part of a semi-secret organization tasked with protecting the shire. His main job is to quickly travel all over the place and discretely investigate threats. He is deliberately trying not to draw too much attention and I think that carrying zweihander in one hand, longbow in second hand and a shield in a third hand would probably not be the most subtle option. If you look at it like that, longsword is probably the largest weapon you can get away with carrying without drawing too much attention to yourself.

[@cammoblammo]

Interesting thing: when we first meet Aragorn the only weapon he appears to have is the broken Narsil. We don’t see him using anything else (beside a burning branch) until he gets to Rivendell, where his sword is finally reforged.

[@purefoldnz3070]

A ranger using a shield wouldn't make much sense out in the wild. Plus Aragorn isnt quite human

[@criert135]

@@cammoblammo Kinda makes more sense in the film tbh

[@clasqm]

Aragorn may be of royal descent, but the Rangers as a whole are an impoverished remnant. They would use old hand-me-down weapons and whatever they could pick up on the battlefield. They would definitely not have the luxury of designing weapons for specific situations. The Rohirrim were in a similar situation. Gondor? It is a throwback to the old days, too fossilized and set in their ways to think of any innovation.

[@nevertrustatory9412]

In all my experience with various art departments on various productions over the last twenty something years, I can honestly say that any historical accuracy is more through luck than consideration. ‘Artistic interpretation’ will always trump proper context.

[@VK-sz4it]

I was asking myself question, would have been LotR better if there were more historically accurate things. And I think, it would not. LotR is historically accurate enough that nothing sticks out. When enough is done here, further artistic choices should be made to represent and individualize character. Not to satisfy small percentage of audience that have very niche hobby and OCD. I like history, but art is more important.

[@TGPDrunknHick]

@@VK-sz4it also to the point it is still a fantasy story with very low key magic. it's earth before the magic goes away so it's not like historical accuracy was a sticking point at any point either.

[@gregcampwriter]

I got the impression reading and watching the series that Gondor was something like Byzantium in comparison to the various small kingdoms in western Europe and the Sultanate. As a result, the uniform armor and weapons of Gondor's soldiers versus the hit and miss equipment of others made sense.

[@anaussie213]

Well yeah Tolkien essentially transposes the western charge at the walls of Vienna and the western alliance at the battle of the Catalonian fields to the fall of Constantinople (saving it from the 200,000 strong horde) in his battle of the pelenor fields.

[@NevisYsbryd]

He referenced the Egyptians as a major influence on Gondor, so more or less.

[@NevisYsbryd]

@@jacquesstrapp3219 In letter 211 Tolkien wrote to Rhona Beare: "The Numenoreans of Gondor were proud, peculiar, and archaic, and I think are best pictured in (say) Egyptian terms. In many ways they resembled 'Egyptians' - the love of, and power to construct, the gigantic and massive. And in their great interest in ancestry and in tombs."

[@NevisYsbryd]

@@jacquesstrapp3219 Mind, Egypt is the _only_ significant influence that is non-European that I know of, and the Hellenic Greeks perceived themselves as descendants of Egyptian culture, adding some level of cognitive affiliation with the Egyptians in the Western tradition.

[@hafor2846]

@@jacquesstrapp3219 Why are you even arguing? The man himself literally said this about his own work, whether you know about that letter doesn't matter, he clearly drew influences from Egypt.

[@laipplst]

I love the fact that you are giving us real world advice against opponents such as Orcs, Goblins and Cave Trolls. Love it!

[@leppeppel]

Matt talks Lord of the Rings? I'm rubbing my hands with delight!

[@DmitriyLusin]

Well, Aragorn is canonically 6`6"(198cm) and has a much better stats than a human, so I think he can get away using extra chunky longsword for everything.

[@MrLigonater]

I’m completely there with you in imagining Tolkien’s world to have a much earlier medieval aesthetic and feel when I read the books. When o collect and paint miniatures for LOTR tabletop gaming, I like to take late Roman or Byzantine soldiers and paint them up in Gondorian colours and iconography. It does become challenging to find models of orcs and goblins that look like they should exist across the battlefield from Beowulf, instead of the Yorkists battle host. I suppose my question after this video is, what weapon would you expect an ork to pick, if they were transposed into a late medieval context? Would their great cleavers and rudimentary plate armor be suitable against the armies at Agincourt? I imagine a knight in full harness wouldn’t be too worried about a stereotypical orc charging into him, he would simplify pull out his rondel dagger and stab into one of the many gaps in orkish armor.

[@fabiovarra3698]

Depend on what type of ork and from what fantasy setting. Even in Tolkien world the orks descripted in the Simarilion look way more fearsome than most of Sauron orks, and most of them would use spears. If you take the orks from Warhammer instead, then you have massive monsters way bigger and stronger than a man.

[@paavohirn3728]

The new One Ring 2e takes the approach of early medieval at least with armor though weaponry is a little inconsistent. Many of the images in the rulebook are pretty cool as well, except unfortunately the weapons.

[@kounurasaka5590]

Considering Orcs are almost always shown to be stronger than humans, I imagine big heavy warhammers, mauls, and poleaxes would be a major pick for orcs on the battlefield. Also, consider, if Orcs are stronger and hardier, their armor would probably be thicker and more durable than regular human made platemail.

[@LordVader1094]

Orcs would definitely be using chainmail

[@LordVader1094]

@@kounurasaka5590 Orcs aren't actually stronger in LotR, just more fierce and aggressive.

[@VestigialLung]

Seems like the long sword represents a compromise weapon in this. It’s not as effective against either enemy type you’ve laid out as the specialized gear kits would be, but it’s at least not borderline useless against one or the other the way the specialized kits would be. As for the armor shown, more would probably be better, but there’s a case for less when you’re factoring in stuff like trolls, where whether you’re wearing plate or nothing at all, a single hit is enough to absolutely wreck a person, maybe lighter to no armor is reasonable. I would imagine the troll fighting specialist would be lightly armored with a weapon that provides reach. Something like the Roman pilum might be of value, where it’s hampering the enemy, slowing them down enough that you can get in with your pole arm or boar spear and get out. For stuff like goblins, more armor is probably better, since I don’t recall them bringing anything to bear that could readily deal with a set of plate. But if you’re telling me I have to travel cross country, and I’ll be fighting trolls, goblins, and everything in between on the way, and I’m limited in how many weapons I can have on me because I have to carry it with me and don’t have the kind of support system that propped up the medieval knight, I might wind up not that dissimilarly kitted as some of the characters in the movies. I’d probably go moderate on the armor, breastplate with relatively light armor on my arms and legs to preserve mobility while making sure my center mass is protected, simple skullcap style helmet, something that won’t mess up my vision too much, since I’ll be hiking all day every day in it, probably a lighter bow like you discussed, and probably a spear over a sword, rely on keeping my distance.

[@VestigialLung]

Alternatively, I might specialize in fighting lighter opponents (similar armor, ditch the spear for sword and shield) and accept that my plan for stuff like trolls is run faster than my friends.

[@seanrea550]

Also when the circumstances arise augment your arsenal with what is available in the local armories.

[@randlebrowne2048]

@@seanrea550 Which is exactly what happened in both the books and movies.

[@seanrea550]

@@randlebrowne2048 yep

[@ulflidsman3064]

I would argue that the best solution would be to team up! Traveling alone into the wilderness of Middle-Earth would be very dangerous regardless of what weapons you chose. I'm thinking the Spanish Tercio in miniature! Say for example, four people armed with spear and shield, two on each flank with bows and sword and bucklers as secondary weapons and two large fellows with Dane axes behind the lineup. Bring it on!

[@hjgfor86fuyv]

100% this. It makes far more sense for groups of people to divide responsibilities than it does for each person to have all the things at all the times. Plus, when you encounter the bigger/beefier threats, the more nimble weapons can still be used in conjunction with the poleax. They might be less effective, but they can still contribute.

[@MPostma72]

With that many people making noise, you can be sure any trouble will find you. Whereas one or two people trained in stealth could more easily evade or flee from danger.

[@Tareltonlives]

That's why the Fellowship was made- Frodo alone, with his mail shirt and short sword, sneaking around alone? And at Amon hen and the chamber of Marzabul we do see a bit of this teamwork sometimes (more in the films than in the book)

[@Arkantos117]

I think that Aragorn, being a ranger, doesn't have the luxury of carrying lots of different types of weapons so a longsword with knives and a bow is a good low weight compromise allowing him to take on opponents of any size or type. Enemy archers would probably be less of a concern considering we see that rangers generally start fights by shooting arrows from behind trees and likely remain in the woods as long as possible. In Osgoliath we see them hiding and let the enemies pass them too before they engage, closing the gap an enemy archer might need. A buckler probably could've fit into his kit but I don't think the sword should be any shorter than it is considering he could be up against a wolf, warg, bear or troll. He could use his knife in his off hand I suppose as we do see him wielding his longsword onehanded at times which might help with multiple opponents.

[@Intranetusa]

@@michaelmurdock4607 He deflects a knife thrown at him, not a crossbow bolt.

[@Intranetusa]

Aragon uses the longsword Anduril after it was forged at the Council or Elrond since it is a part of his heritage. I believe the books do not say he used a longsword before Anduril was forged. The movies takes liberties with this and gives him another sword/longsword before he gets the Anduril. Furthermore, if you're fighting in the woods, then a long sword might not be the best good option since it could be snagged by vegetation.

[@Glimmlampe1982]

@@Intranetusa in the book he carries the broken sword around, which I always found strange. At least when he met Frodo, he shows him the broken blade.

[@bavariancarenthusiast2722]

@@Intranetusa in the books he is using a bastard sword before, a 1.5 hander - that's how I remember it from my childhood :) and now I am using one myself because of him. Later he is using Anduril which is way bigger not that handy.

[@louisvictor3473]

Actually, he does have the luxury of carrying other weapons, depending what he was against. And that is the key here, he knew the mission Gandalf gave him, which was to escort the hobbits to Rivendell (i.e. help them avoid battle, and if caught in one help them to get away - fighting was the last of the last resort). So he geared up for this mission (bow, longsword and dagger, all easy to wear/carry without calling attention, make little noise while transported this way; little metal armor makes less noise, shines less, weighs less so faster walking, drains less energy while moving), and why he showed up alone (fewer people = faster movement, harder to track/follow, harder to detect, needs less supplies, etc.). Same applies later to the fellowship. If it was a more usual situation, he was his people's chieftain already even before being king, he would have a posse well supplied and prepared for the fight instead, but for this one fighting was the opposite of what he was supposed to do.

[@SnakeWasRight]

The weapons in the Amazon series are wall-hanger costume weapons.

[@culchieman1995]

As opposed to the perfectly fuctional ones from the movies, like orcrist or arwens weird spiky katana thing

[@MonkeyJedi99]

Ugh. Once I saw that still of Galadriel (?) in that steel back brace (there is no way that is armor for a person who breathes or moves) I decided to not watch the thing if/when it ever comes out.

[@culchieman1995]

@@MonkeyJedi99 well, you have fun with that, I'll at least give it a proper chance before deciding if it's worth my time

[@SnakeWasRight]

@@culchieman1995 Arwen's sword is perfectly functional. Curved swords exist. The spike on her sword is at the handle and essentially forms a half cross-guard. Nothing wrong with that. Same with orcrist, it is a perfectly functional falchion sword. It looks a little thick to me, almost foam sword -like, but there is nothing wrong with the profile of that weapon at all.

[@SnakeWasRight]

@@culchieman1995 the marketing for the show has been enough to know it'll be crap. The costume design just doubly confirmed the low quality for me.

[@darthhodges]

It seems that when the makers of the films set up Legolas they were most in agreement with your thinking with regard to weapons. He uses his bow whenever possible, even at short range, and when he can't he has a pair of long daggers he is able to move very quickly with and also block incoming blows with. However, Legolas only wears any kind of armor at the battle of Helm's Deep, completely eschewing it when traveling even if he knows a battle is coming.

[@OmegaPaladin144]

One thing to keep in mind was that technology of the Elves, Dwarves, and the Numenoreans were significantly more advanced than the Rohirrim or Lakemen. In the Third Age, they were lost weapons of the ancients, and the gear of a rare few heroes.

[@mindstalk]

The differences were more in making magic swords that didn't rust or could cut metal, or in old Gondor's super-hard black 'concrete', not in having had plate armor and polearms in the past.

[@squashedeyeball]

I wouldn't call them "Tolkien's", but rather "various adaptations inspired by his works". That being said, your input is always a must watch!

[@dimitrovtesla7685]

I wouldn't call you "pedantic", but rather "highly interested in Matt's lexicon".

[@squashedeyeball]

@@dimitrovtesla7685 I love Matt. And I greatly love JRRT. Hence, my comment.

[@dimitrovtesla7685]

@@squashedeyeball It's clickbait. I don't think Matt is trying to convey some deeper meaning about the ownership of intellectual property.

[@squashedeyeball]

@@dimitrovtesla7685 Me neither.

[@hafor2846]

It always amused me that Movie-Gondor had an enormous standing army of thousands of entirely plate armoured men-at-arms. That's quite the army for a Medieval kingdom.

[@thesuperjohn57]

Well Gondor is decended from a line of demi god humans, the numenorians who were very wealthy and powerful and lived hundreds of years. So it is not far fetched that the decendents of said ubermench humans should have full armories at the ready which were accumulated over time.

[@randlebrowne2048]

@@thesuperjohn57 The Gondorians were, effectively, descendants of Atlantis (the island nation of Numenor).

[@iapetusmccool]

@@randlebrowne2048 and also functionally the equivalent of Byzantium (eastern remnant of a much larger empire, now much reduced and beset by enemies, but still powerful, and able to call in a multi-national coalition of allies).

[@EGRJ]

You can't fight evil if you ain't cute.

[@michaelj132]

How useless they were amused me. They were like stormtroopers. Useless fighters in useless armour. There portrayal was my least favourite part of those films.

[@couchpotatoe91]

One of the coolest weapons in the Peter Jackson films imo is the Zweihander of the Uruk berserkers: They're big with a basic yet intimidating style and have spikes at the top so they can't poke, but hook onto shields, soldiers or walls. And of course they're basically naked maniacs. They also have helmets which is nice!

[@howardgalloway5606]

This is a fantastic video, and I thank you for making it. As others have pointed out, the dwarves enjoyed enormous advantages in strength and endurance, as well as a superior knowledge of metallurgy. They were in fact made by Aule the smith to live in and endure a world at war with Melkor, in which war the shape of the world itself was often in flux, being thrown into dissarray by the strivings of the Valar and Melkor. I suppose that we would reckon such catastrophes as the dwarves were made to endure to be mass-extinction events. Their skill in the arts was so great that it was said they would have a hand in reshaping the world after Melkor's defeat. I leave it to you to draw what conclusions you can from this about their weapons, and I quote extensively from the Silmarillion, first from the final passage of the Ainulindale, then from Of Aule and Yavanna: "Thus began the first battle of the Valar with Melkor for the dominion of Arda; and of those tumults the Elves know but little. For what has here been declared is come from the Valar themselves, with whom the Eldalië spoke in the land of Valinor, and by whom they were instructed; but little would the Valar ever tell of the wars before the coming of the Elves. Yet it is told among the Eldar that the Valar endeavoured ever, in despite of Melkor, to rule the Earth and to prepare it for the coming of the Firstborn; and they built lands and Melkor destroyed them; valleys they delved and Melkor raised them up; mountains they carved and Melkor threw them down; seas they hollowed and Melkor spilled them; and naught might have peace or come to lasting growth, for as surely as the Valar began a labour so would Melkor undo it or corrupt it. And yet their labour was not all in vain; and though nowhere and in no work was their will and purpose wholly fulfilled, and all things were in hue and shape other than the Valar had at first intended, slowly nonetheless the Earth was fashioned and made firm. And thus was the habitation of the Children of Ilúvatar established at the last in the Deeps of Time and amidst the innumerable stars." ... "It is told that in their beginning the Dwarves were made by Aulë in the darkness of Middle-earth; for so greatly did Aulë desire the coming of the Children, to have learners to whom he could teach his lore and his crafts, that he was unwilling to await the fulfilment of the designs of Ilúvatar. And Aulë made the Dwarves even as they still are, because the forms of the Children who were to come were unclear to his mind, and because the power of Melkor was yet over the Earth; and he wished therefore that they should be strong and unyielding. But fearing that the other Valar might blame his work, he wrought in secret: and he made first the Seven Fathers of the Dwarves in a hall under the mountains in Middle-earth. ... "Since they were to come in the days of the power of Melkor, Aulë made the Dwarves strong to endure. Therefore they are stone-hard, stubborn, fast in friendship and in enmity, and they suffer toil and hunger and hurt of body more hardily than all other speaking peoples; and they live long, far beyond the span of Men, yet not for ever. Aforetime it was held among the Elves in Middle-earth that dying the Dwarves returned to the earth and the stone of which they were made; yet that is not their own belief. For they say that Aulë the Maker, whom they call Mahal, cares for them, and gathers them to Mandos in halls set apart; and that he declared to their Fathers of old that Ilúvatar will hallow them and give them a place among the Children in the End. Then their part shall be to serve Aulë and to aid him in the remaking of Arda after the Last Battle."

[@patmacken5130]

Something to consider is terms of weapons and armor is daily life/normal travel vs expecting a major war. If you are just sneaking about the woods you might not expect to face large groups of bad guys but if you are in a fortress and expect a battle you are more likely to get proper armor maybe a better weapon, a helmet and a shield . Then throw in cultural factors….

[@GodofTrek]

A huge factor to consider is that MAGIC weapons exist as well! depending on access ,and what precisely enchantments on a weapon can do, there is a huge variety of new combos/tatics that suddenly become viable or even preferred.

[@spamhonx56]

Also worth considering is that Aragorn is kinda stuck for weapon choice- a choice which was made long ago. Narsil was a longsword, made for use in heavy armour, against orcs. Aragorn doesn't weild Narsil himself until it is reforged into Anduril, but in the mean time, it just makes sense that he uses the same type of weapon so that when the time comes, he's not awful with a longsword.

[@101Mant]

Except he magic doesn't do much, its not like their swords cleave through armour or are lighter or sharper. They can hurt some creature normal weapons don't and glow when orcs are around. They don't really do more in a fight than a normal weapon.

[@bacul165]

@@spamhonx56 I think book Aragorn carries the broken Narsil and no other sword?

[@TheBeef2487]

@@bacul165 Correct, at least when we first meet him in The Prancing Pony. Considering his history campaigning in Gondor under another name he must have wielded something else at some point, but when we see him at first all he has are the shards.

[@spamhonx56]

@@bacul165 yes, in the books, but this video is about the films.

[@p4riah]

the thing you have to remember about Aragorn is that he is a ranger. what the rangers typically spent their time doing was wandering around the wilderness, living off the land, travelling far from civilization, often alone and on foot. they spent most of their time hunting down bands of goblins or other evil creatures in the wilds to protect places like Bree secretly from the shadows. rangers in Tolkiens world are the most skilled and experienced travellers in middle earth. as such, i cant see them routinely carrying large heavy weapons, especially ones like spears and zweihanders and poleaxes that must be held in the hand and cannot be worn. the thing you learn when travelling long distances on foot with no military logistics train or beasts of burden is that every gram matters. NO ONE in that situation is going to be carrying large heavy weapons or armor that doesnt leave your hands free. so most of the time, on foot and alone, a ranger is highly unlikely to be carrying a large primary arm. rangers are also secretive, hiding their true nature and work from regular people. carrying a spear or zweihander or polearm into Bree certainly would raise some eyebrows. in a pure combat context, rangers are foot skirmishers, scouts, and (sort of) assassins. they wander around, looking for signs of evil creatures in the countryside, then they track them down and kill them before they can become a problem. single trolls wandering down from the ettenmoors. packs of hunting wargs. small bands of goblins skirmishing down from the misty mountains. there are accounts where rangers fight in larger battles, when a goblin lord ammases a large horde and attacks somewhere (or the ride of the Grey Company in the war of the ring), and in those situations, the rangers are shown gathering together in small companies, riding on horse, and carrying larger weapons like long spears. so i think that for your typical dunedain ranger in the third age, a one handed sword, small buckler, large dagger (maybe a small hand axe too/instead?), and hunting bow make the most sense as a basic weapon set. these weapons can all be made fairly lightweight, they can be worn or carried fairly easily, and they give the ranger a lot of versatility in how he can fight a variety of enemies. the rangers are also shown to be considered kind of odd to the regular people of middle earth. they dont travel alone into the wilderness to fight evil creatures because its a good idea, they get away with it because they are said to be a people of near superhuman skill at it. they do it DESPITE it being a bad idea generally, because they are a grim, dedicated band and have become really, REALLY good at it. Aragorn is unusual in that he has a specific reason to carry a different sword, since his sword is The Blade That Was Broken, which is the symbol of his status as the Heir of Elendil. its a badge of office, really. and that sword, a long sword, was designed for fighting large wars in a big army, and while Tolkien doesnt directly mention the fact, its obvious that Aragorn carries it for reasons other than it being the best weapons for his job as a ranger. interestingly, in the books, before it is reforged, Aragorn is shown to travel as a ranger with this broken sword and no other weapons, which is certainly odd. he only uses his wits and knowledge and experience as a ranger to get them to rivendell against the nine riders. Tolkien doesnt even mention if he has a knife or a bow or anything (besides Aragorn saying 'i have some skill as a hunter at need', which might suggest he has some hunting weapon tolkien doesnt mention). in the movies they obviously thought it would be weird for him to walk around with nothing but a broken sword, so in fellowship before the sword is reforged they just gave him a similar looking longsword without thinking much about if it makes sense for a ranger to use something like that without a special reason like Aragorns lineage.

[@GruntBurger]

Also consider the setting each member of the fellowship hails from, as well as their profession. The rangers, for example, work in small groups or alone, using stealth and reconnaissance to their advantage, staying out in the wild for months at a time. Boromir is a professional soldier, and that is reflected in his use of an arming sword and shield. Their weapon choices reflect their personality and history and experience. Even if a big ol sword would be better for the task at hand, Aragorn has used a longsword for at least 50 years at this point, so he's going to take a longsword.

[@ElDrHouse2010]

For trolls pike formation, bow men spamming arrows on the troll until the big lad just dies. It's the same thing as dealing with War Elephants irl only more dangerous.

[@00784865]

The Rings of Power doesnt exist, you have been deceived by the one ring.

[@asahearts1]

Welcome to Lake Laogai

[@markcannon8522]

Its just a bad fan fiction

[@Snowsc-dp7qo]

The show is objectively a disgrace to lord of the rings but as a show i kind of liked it.

[@rileyernst9086]

Well in the books Tolkein mentions the shining harness of the Gondorian knights. So that really puts me in mind of actual plated armour rather than migration era maile. When he speaks of others like most the soldery and the Rohirrim, dwarves, elves etc specifically mentions shining maile. Prince Imrahil of Dol Amoroth also raises his vambrace to Eowyn's mouth(after she has succombed to the black breathe and is thought dead after slaying the witch king) and sees her breath misting on the polished steel. So quite clearly to me; most of the world uses maile. BUT the peoples of Gondor and her feifs have a plate armour industry and their nobility make use of it.

[@skyintatters]

But Pippin, Faramir, and Denethor himself wear mail. Surely the Steward and his son would wear the best available. Plate is wrong.

[@skyintatters]

"Harness" in that sense is just a term for arms and armor in general, like "panoply".

[@rileyernst9086]

@@skyintatters well he describes characters specifically in shining maile and other in shining harness. Prince Imrahil specifically has a plated vanbrace and you have yet to retort to this. In my opinion if Tolkein meant maile he would have not said harness. Denethor is not dressed for battle, maile can be worn under civillian dress whilst generally plate(excluding purpose designed stuff) can't really be concealed so easily. I did say the soldery of Gondor had maile, the citadel guard have maile, and that includes Pipin. What's more Faramir wore no armour when he was acting in a light infantry role in Ithilia. He raced back to West Osligath in time for the battle there, he'd have time to throw a maile shirt pn, but probably not be clad in harness, if he had his own harness stored in the armoury there(but i suspect it would have been in Miras Tirinth as Sauron's attack was caught Gondor not completely ready in its ford defences.)

[@skyintatters]

​@@rileyernst9086 "harness" just means kit, basically. And since the armor most often specified is mail, then it must be mail. Rohan bought or traded its mail from Gondor, if plate was available they would get that, yet they use mail. The elites use mail, they would use plate if they had it.

[@rileyernst9086]

@@skyintatters Your argument is not really compelling and is completely lacking in context, for example why might the Rohirim not adopt plate armour? Their thing is covering vast distances as swiftly as possible and being battle ready after a long day's ride. Wearing more weight in armour on the march means neither man nor beast will be battle ready after a long day's ride, and they will be slowed somewhat as well. Alternatively they could rely on a baggage train to carry the armour but it will be really slow. Gondor and especially her nobility really does not have these issues. Hell if you wanted to shoehorn Tolkeins fantasy world into the real world, which is a tempting idea but is still imperfect, the best candidate for Gondor would be the Eastern Roman empire. So yeah shining harness could be shoehorned to mean the encompassing laminated armour of the Kataphractoii, but its a bit of a stretch, Imrahil still has a vambrace of a single large steel plate(or it could be a full on hinged cannon), which would mean that logically, they can make large ish singular plates of steel, that can be polished to a satisfying shining silver with no unsightly inclusions etc. In other words: 14 century plate armour technology at least.

[@moreparrotsmoredereks2275]

I think Gimli actually has the perfect setup. He's a dwarf, which makes him strong, so he's wearing armor for the entire journey. He's got a kind of glaive/Dane axe weapon which helps compensate for his lack of reach, and he also uses it as a walking stick. He also has a shorter, heavy looking double bitted axe that would hit very hard and be more useful against armored opponents, as well as a third axe that is probably for wood chopping and 2 throwing axes.

[@stepheningermany]

Yeah, he must be built like superman, he even goes for a cross-country run wearing chainmail and all his equipment.

[@thawk5987]

@@stepheningermany Dwarves aren't really designed for cross-country. More a natural sprinter!

[@SimonAshworthWood]

If only Boromir had carried a shield, he might have stopped those Uruk-hai arrows..

[@itaka92]

So the ideal loadout you describe in the end is basically the loadout of a regular Gondor soldier in Jackson's films. Plate armour, shield, spear and arming sword as backup. Shows that Gondor had quite A lot of experience fighting Orcs by the time the War of the Ring takes place. Good job Jackson I guess :D

[@darthkek1953]

Gondor armouries : we have perfected the full-plate system. In old-money it's "Armour Class 0" Newbie : but my face is exposed for the close-up shots. Gondor armouries : don't worry, your face has PLOT armour

[@Loaderdani]

I think you would have phalanx style, shield and spear with short sword side arms, coupled with mounted “Troll experts” carrying heavy draw weight crossbows and short bows. Trolls can be devastating, and you need a good answer to them, but they usually only appear in battles. You avoid them, and the armoured orcs unless you are part of a decent sized group who are prepared to carry around similar armour, with a polearm.

[@Loaderdani]

*Uruk Hai. Forgot I could look up the spelling.

[@MerricMaker]

Glamdring and Orcrist are called "twins," in the Hobbit, yet bear no similarity in the movies. Made in the same city at the same time, yet in the film, one is a bastard sword and the other is a sabery/falchion sort of contrivance.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

"there's even things like Treants and stuff" Matt clearly plays D&D. In Tolkien they are called Ents. Gary Gygax used "Treant" because he wasn't allowed to use "Ent" for legal reasons (after the white box edition, which did have Ents)

[@Lowlandlord]

You see this to an extent in Warhammer Fantasy Battles (and the Total War version), specifically for the Empire, who have a wide selection of unit types for different units. Crossbows are relatively good versus armour, but not so great against unarmoured and massed units. Either specialist units that are good at one thing, or good enough at many things. Generally halberds are what win out in the boardgame due to the game meta and some numbers, but in the novels it tends to be more situational.

[@saltyshalquoir8008]

I've always been a fan of the dane axe for a lot of fantasy settings, largely because of the varied nature of the opponents one might face. Whether you're fending off a group of enemies or a giant troll, whether your cleaving through flesh or crashing against armor. Throughout the history of Middle Earth there are plenty of mentions of Elves, Humans, and Dwarves all using large axes as their primary weapon. I'm not sure why during the time of the Fellowship axes are exclusively attributed to Dwarves though.

[@АнтонОрлов-я1ъ]

They are not. At least one contingent of Gondorian army (from Lossarnah) is armed with axes, and some groups of Easterlings also used them (in the books, at least).

[@prussiagod45]

I think it was a movie choice. Woodelves actually preferred axes

[@criert135]

The Orcs, Uruks and Rohan riders all use axes as well

[@leppeppel]

Regarding Aragorn's load-out, I agree that a longsword isn't the best choice in combat with multiple orcs/goblins, but let's look at an even broader context. He's not a mercenary or professional orc-hunter; he's a ranger. That means lots of travel broken up by occasional combat. Really for that, he wants equipment that's as light an unobtrusive as possible, which rules out armour and shields. If he gets ambushed, survival is the top priority, so the best tactic may be to cut-and-run (pun slightly intended). A longsword is a fairly decent weapon of self defense, affording him reach without being too heavy. That said, he could still use a good quarterstaff, ideally with a detachable spearhead. kzbin.info/www/bejne/p6DIgmOKfJ5re6c

[@martytu20]

For a ranger, a messer would be even better combined with a longbow. Of course, Aragorn being the lost heir to the throne of Gondor means that the long sword is more of a literary device to foreshadow his true lineage.

[@SidneyBeers]

But Aragon is 87 at the beginning of the Books, he has spent most of his adult life hunting the servants of Sauron, and ruled for 122 years after the defeat of Sauron. He is not regular human, he also has been educated by the elves of Rivendale. It is not a far stretch to say that his reflexes and combat abilities are to a degree super human, this would explane why he can trust on his reflexes scirmishing with Orks and a long sword ist an effective weapon for hin. He doesn't need the same protection as a more sluggish baseline human.

[@chabis]

I had to think about Shad when he tried out how many weapons he could cary at once and looked like a walking armoury. He did, however, not try out how quickly he could deploy the right weapon for the current enemy.

[@adambielen8996]

Also he just was seeing how many he could fit upon himself. Going anywhere with that set up would have been hell.

[@chabis]

@@adambielen8996 Especially entering a tavern 😀

[@adambielen8996]

@@chabis Sir, tavern policy is that you leave your weapons at the door.

[@chabis]

@@adambielen8996 May take some time

[@V4N6U4RD]

22:00 So Boromir was right? Merry did say, "The closer we are to danger, the further we are from harm" so passing through the Gap of Rohan is the path Saruman would have least expected, and both Gandalf the Gray and Bromoir would have survived, and Boromir would have been able to allow the easier dialog story pathways if he successfully returned to Minas-Tirith?

[@davidgeldner2167]

I personally feel that the weapons Tolkien chose for each character, to put it simply, are deeper than just realistic they’re representative of their personalities and their abilities. Gimli IS his axe. Legolas IS his bow. Gandalf is defined by which staff he’s using at the time-wooden stick or fancy scepter. I get your point, about practicality, like maybe Gimli needs more reach or needs a shield. But that isn’t as iconic, and symbolic of who Gimli truly is. Gimli is an aggressive offensive fighter that would rather take a scathing hit and land a direct hit, than land no hit. He is that axe.

[@DmitriyLusin]

Good point.

[@CrimeVid]

Nord VPN is the wrong technology for the world I live in ! Try Express !

[@willek1335]

I only thought about it just now. The idea that a nobleman like Aragorn carried a sword makes perfect sense. That's also emphasized during the disarming outside the Golden Hall. However. The idea that a ranger carried a sword makes no sense for anyone who's spent more than a day out in the woods or walked ultra long distances off-trail. Think about it for a second and a sword makes no sense. Your goal 99.9% of the time is to walk: A sword attracts attention, when he doesn't want that. It's big. It's heavy. It has barely any use during the roughly 1000 miles the fellowship lasted, and then there are better alternatives for a journey. You also need to eat and carry more food to compensate for dead weight, slowing you down further. The magic for me is that Tolkien can make a great story, and as an outdoorsy person, I've failed to pay attention to a sword-armed ranger hitherto. :'D ha ha ha. He's truly a master of his craft.

[@davidgeldner2167]

@@willek1335 Yup. It’s not meant to make sense on that level so much as it’s meant to make sense Archetypally.

[@mindstalk]

@@willek1335 A sword is just 2-3 pounds, and this isn't a pleasure hike; he needs *some* weapon, because enemies exist. The point of the Rangers is to *find* enemies and keep them from the Shire and Bree. So what weapon would you bring? "No weapon" is the wrong answer.

[@BunnyOfThunder]

Omg I've been thinking about this a lot lately. Given that Tolkien was inspired by Finnish myth that was presumably a migration-era setting, and he frequently mentions mail and caps, I feel like Aragon's sword is probably closer to an Ulfberht-which was typically seen as magical because they were made of imported crucible steel and thus hard to break. The only mention of plate armor afaik is the Witch King. Merry stabs him in the back of the knee, under the harness, which is a very anti-plate kind of thing to do. Admittedly, longswords are cool, and that's how I've always imagined Narsil :D If you want to justify a longsword, here's some arguments: 1. The sword was originally made in Numenor. They did end up fighting a lot of orcs, but also other human forces, and were also very technologically advanced (in LotR terms). Perhaps a longsword made sense for their situation. 2. The forces of The Enemy include human cultures such as the Southrons and the Easterlings. They may have better armor than most orcs. 3. The longsword is equally mediocre at a lot of various situations. If you have to invest in a single magical weapon, maybe something that is usable (if not ideal) in all situations is better than something more specialized but sometimes is at a big disadvantage? (I'm not 100% sure on where the sword was originally made. It was at least Numenor, possibly earlier)

[@mrgoober6320]

Narsil was made by a dwarf smith of the First Age named Telchar of Nogrod. It gets broken by Sauron when he kills Elendil, and much later reforged by the Noldorin smiths of Rivendell for Aragorn.

[@elijenkins2181]

Interestingly much of Tolkien's most in depth description of arms and armour exist in poetry: From 'Song of Eärendil': In panoply of ancient kings, in chainéd rings he armoured him; his shining shield was scored with runes to ward all wounds and harm from him; his bow was made of dragon-horn, his arrows shorn of ebony; of silver was his habergeon, his scabbard of chalcedony; his sword of steel was valiant, of adamant his helmet tall, an eagle-plume upon his crest, upon his breast an emerald. From 'The Fall of Gil-Galad': His sword was long, his lance was keen. His shining helm afar was seen; the countless stars of heaven's field were mirrored in his silver shield. However, it should also be noted that this is very much in line with descriptions of mythological figures in Middle Earth particularly for the Third Age. Although the Song of Eärendil was intended to be heard by Elrond the son of Eärendil, so we can assume that Bilbo had done some research. Túrin Turambar is another character whose armaments are fairly established within that period and he was minimally armed through most of his epic story but the few items he had all carried mythical and magical properties.

[@DrDeFord]

Re: wearing armor all the time: I thought part of the point of brigandine/maille/etc was that it was reasonable to wear sort of continuously, unlike eg plate/breastplate.

[@martytu20]

It’s still uncomfortable to wear and gets cold in winter/hot in summer. There’s a reason why armies started abandoning armour when the protection is no longer worth trading comfortable clothing for.

[@Blokewood3]

What about just a breastplate or a mail byrnie? Minimal enough to be light, but enough protection to possibly make the difference between life and death.

[@timothym9398]

brigandine still doesn't breathe worth a damn. I mean, on a personal level I could see something like maille, or brig plus selective metal plates such as gauntlets/ bracers being fairly reasonable if I knew I was going through a high risk ambush place, but the idea of climbing a mountain, or wading through a swamp in high humidity in brig sounds like torture.

[@Ninjamanhammer]

Brigandine is just many small plates under fabric, it's not really lighter than plate.

[@majungasaurusaaaa]

They still weigh. A 15kg hauberk maybe more comfortable to wear than a plate cuirass but by the end of the day, it's still the same 15kg.

[@swe123swe]

I'm confused why your approach to this is that one person needs to handle all situations, taking on multiple kinds of foes at once. Why wouldn't there be a specialized unit to handle and engage with the heavier orcs while there would be lighter infantry to handle the goblin chaff?

[@mnk9073]

Got to love how Moria is the origin of "the Party": Tank (Boromir), Thief (Frodo), Wizard (Gandalf), Archer (Legolas), Fighter (Aragorn) and Barbarian (Gimli); and adopted usless NPCs (the other Hobbits).

[@mindstalk]

Sam kills an orc in Moria: "Boromir and Aragorn slew many. When thirteen had fallen the rest fled shrieking, leaving the defenders unharmed, except for Sam who had a scratch along the scalp. A quick duck had saved him; and he had felled his orc: a sturdy thrust with his Barrow-blade." And Frodo doesn't do anything thief-like, that was Bilbo. He does attack a troll.

[@vampyrjack]

If you're the Gondorian commander, tasked with training and kitting your soldiers, I think your best option is to have specific units kittet and trained for specific tasks. So you have a troll task force behind the frontline ready to deploy where the enemy would send their trolls. The adventurer however, well a sword shield and bow seems the good option, trolls are less likely enemy, and if you meet one, you might wanna leg it rather than put up the fight. But if you have to, use your low draw weight bow to aim at it's head. If you're lucky you'll take out an eye, but even if you don't it should distract the troll, having an arrow or two shot in the face.

[@bacul165]

Just remember you can best trolls by literally talking them to death ;)

[@Dannyboyefc]

All the weapons used are great designed weapons, not over the top fantasy designs like most films

[@HamsterPants522]

There's nothing wrong with over the top fantasy designs. They're fun too.

[@louisalmeida45]

@@HamsterPants522 **rebellion and devil sword dante intensifies**

[@gregruddy3870]

Really like your take on this. Something that was covered, and implemented really well in one of the Larps we played in extensively. Different weapon categories, different special abilities, or maneuvers, and different types were more/less effective against various "monster" creature types. Carried different implements for different situations. Was really well done. 2 handed sword, Glaive, Spear were my preferred. Mace, and an Axe dual wield was also clutch, but hard on the stamina even if swinging foam. For a human, that is a long day at the gym.

[@leeisaac5716]

happy summer! in the hobbit I kind of got a chuckle out of the dwarves getting all armoured up for the siege of the mountain; then came out to fight on the field of battle of the five armies in basically their clothing. I can see method in that madness; though taken a wee too far. Though in the end it is cinema!

[@leeisaac5716]

note that the rank and file iron hill dwarves that Dain led, march and fought in relatively full armour!

[@iivin4233]

It's not just cinema. It's just the products we buy. If we could restrain ourselves then it would take only a flop or two for filmmakers to start to do things differently.

[@immortaliserwow]

Dwarves need to use pole weapons and spears to compensate for reach debuffs, take advantage of strength superiority and height. They would basically be chopping at your legs without artificially shortening their weapon reach due to angle. So a dwarf with a poleaxe with some sort of a beak or hook to it would be pulling people off balance left and right, finishing them with an overhead blow while they are struggling to stand up. Change my mind

[@toddgreener]

I wonder if the context is that different from an early medieval battlefield where there would be lots of lightly armored people and a few heavily armored and potentially mounted opponents. In a way, the goblins and trolls have human analogues in that context.

[@mindstalk]

Orc soldiers tend to be decently armored, though.

[@Hissatsu5]

It’s interesting the hobbits wore waste coats. I don’t think that was the fashion of the migration era

[@anaussie213]

The hobbits culture is more advanced than migration era. They have post offices.

[@bacul165]

@@anaussie213 ok this is my favourite comment today

[@Hissatsu5]

@@anaussie213 true

[@aqrxv]

The movies do make out the Saruman-bred orcs and Uruk-Hai to be super-warriors, but in Tolkien's works there is no evidence that they are any better than human soldiers; that's a bunch of stuff that came out of games and movies! If you're going to go back to Tolkien for the weapons, might as well do the same for the orcs they're fighting! The average "goblin" orc such as the dwarves faced, tends to be a bit smaller and weaker than a human, and weaker in daylight -- A fair bit weaker for the lesser orcs used as skirmishers and slaves by those in Mordor. (There are exceptions like the goblin king and other "great goblins" of course, just as some men are bigger and stronger) Sauron's new breed of Uruk-Hai are certainly fierce and bigger than the average orc, but that just makes them oughly equal or even a bit below the men of Gondor or Rohan in stature, but, a key point, they are very fierce and not afraid of the sun. The half-orc breeds of Saruman should not, again, be considered super-warriors: they are just a bit closer to man-size than the uruk-hai, completely free of vulnerability to the sun, and, as seen in Bree, can "pass" as humans, making them useful as spies. If going back to Tolkien it's important not to thing of his orcs as world-of-warcraft orcs, late-edition d&d 3 orcs, or warhammer orcs! All of these species of orcs were made a lot tougher than the original Tolkien versions in order to make them more palatable as player character races! Tolkien always considered orcs no better and often inferior physically to human, elf, or dwarf warriors. Their advantages were in their numbers and ruthlessness, their willingness to at times use wolves, poison, and devlish devices, and above all, their evil and obedience to their evil overlords.

[@randlebrowne2048]

Yeah, Tolkien's orcs and goblins are mostly a threat because they tend to vastly outbreed humans, and other races, allowing for much bigger armies.

[@mindstalk]

@@randlebrowne2048 Also they have high morale when a Dark Lord is mentally backing them. They don't surrender, and break formation with difficulty.

[@annalatalova3407]

I would point out with the Aragorn issue, that even though there were chances he'd run into orcs and stuff, i dare say he was alone purposely, so he could rely primarily on stealth. I do not think he'd choose to fight in this scenario, but would more likely disappear somewhere. Also I feel like Aragorn is the type of guy to notice a horde of goblins sooner than they would notice him, so he could just avoid them. I don't think he'd carry a shield because it is somewhat heavy and impractical for said stealthiness, a buckler perhaps, but with the longsword he has the reach advantage over the goblins' small one-handed swords (i do not assume they'd have polearms, not even the Uruk-hai who killed Boromir and kidnapped the halflings had spears, unless I am mistaken), and also he has the benefit of leverage, meaning his arms would not tire as quickly as they would with the army sword I suppose. Plus it's a weapon that's fairly (fairly!) light and practical to carry around. This was a great video, very informative and put things into perspective!

[@shinjofox]

The biggest issue with be weight. In D&D you rarely ( at least in my 40year experence playing) are carrying a polearm, sidearm, backup sidearm, and ranged weapon plus all the other gear you need and armor shield etc... On the up side games like D&D simplify things so you can still cause damage to creatures just less if they are tougher. Going on to the battle field of Tolkiens Middle earth. You would need to choose between the polearm and the ranged weapon and go from there.

[@adambielen8996]

Yeah, that is an obscene amount of gear to carry. Particularly if you are also carrying all your supplies for long distance travel.

[@timothym9398]

I mean, with the right incentive and planning you can carry a lot of gear. Marius's mules in Roman history being a good example. Scutum, pilum, armor, part of a tent, and several days rations. However that's as a part of a very formal and organized system, not an ad hoc adventuring band.

[@JebeckyGranjola]

When I played D&D there was some max carry stat, that was essentially what you could deadlift. It was an obscene amount to even hold, let alone travel. I don't remember any penalty for holding over time/ distance, so everyone was just fully encumbered at all times.

[@shinjofox]

@@JebeckyGranjola It is called encumbrance , It is typically based on Strength.

[@JebeckyGranjola]

@shinjofox Thanks. Looking it up encumbrance is less than your total carrying capacity (as I incorrectly thought it was equal), and does give penalties. But it's based on static multiplier thresholds, and not effected by anything else. So at 20 str the first threshold is X5= 100lbs, thus you could carry 99lbs at all times with no penalty. Maybe that's realistic? Oh yeah and

[@leelundkim4069]

Aragorn used his longsword with a torch vs the Nazgul on Weathertop. In a few instances, he used it with his elven dagger. Gandalf used Glamdring with his staff in multiple fight scenes. So the longswords in the movie were used in one hand somewhat often. As far as multiple opponents go, per the theme of the movie, the best defense is to stand united. Like CoD MW 2 says, the ultimate weapon is team!

[@JebeckyGranjola]

I wish he'd talked about that. I should think that longsword and quarterstaff would be one of the worst combinations. Why is Gandalf even using a sword in the first place? He should just keep it as a backup.

[@stephanwatson7902]

Also think about this, the Uruk-hai were "almost man sized", so most orcs were smaller than men and elves

[@littlekong7685]

Orcs were twisted, withered Elves, Goblins were twisted, withered half Humans. So both would be smaller than their counterparts, Uruk-hai were half human, half Orc and tougher but not larger than a man, but equally as cunning and twice as cruel.

[@stephanwatson7902]

@@littlekong7685 I always looked at Goblins as separate from Orcs, but I remember at least in the Hobbit the two terms were used interchangeably...at least in my personal cannon, they are different from Orcs

[@mindstalk]

Also Sam and Frodo passed for small orcs in Mordor.

[@mindstalk]

@@littlekong7685 To Tolkien, 'orc' and 'goblin' were *entirely* synonymous. Your "orcs are elves, goblins are humans" has no basis in the text.

[@stephanwatson7902]

@@mindstalk oh yeah, very small orcs and yeah Goblins are definately orcs, but in the text usually the smaller orcs got called Goblins (like the ones Biblo and the dwarves dealt with); so if Goblins came from man, they'd be about Uruk sized instead

[@zsoltferenczy5487]

Shield+spear as primary setup / sword +shield + dagger as backup for footsoldiers. Bow as primary / sword+shield+dagger as backup for the ranged units. Also I think crossbows would do well against armored/tough opponents, if protected.

[@huwhitecavebeast1972]

In the end I think it's fantasy, so there is lots of room for play. I mean there is magic and elves etc so one has to suspend disbelief to some point. Peter Jackson took a lot of liberties with the story and I think that's ok as long as it faithfully represents the spirit and storyline of the original novels.

[@HH-hd7nd]

Don't put too much weight into the magic aspect because you will not find much magic in the form of D&D-like damage spells in Tolkiens world. in fact there's only 1 occasion mentioned in either the Hobbit or The Lord of the Rings where actual battle magic is even mentioned at all (Gandalf in The Hobbit when he comes to the rescue in the Goblin settlement - he mentions that he killed one or two goblisn with a lightning bolt). Magic usually has more of a support role - like covering the sky in clouds and dimming the light to allow the Orcs and Goblins to operate on full strength (and not accidentily killing any Rock Trolls with sunlight) what is what Sauron did during the battle of Minas Tirith. This is for sure powerfull, however not really directly affecting combat.

[@Halo_Legend]

What a piss poor f-ing argument, as always. You realise how many of you make this same logically bankrupt argument? I think that's a clue to stfu already and let the grown ups speak, god damn. "I mean, it's fiction, so nothing has to make sense" get out. Leave and never speak out on culture topics ever again.

[@BenjaminPitkin]

I'd say in Tolkien's world, as depicted in the Lord of the Rings movies, we see a distinction into two class of warrior: - The first class are the "line-of-battle" troops, with mail or plate armor, breastplates and helms, boar-spears and heavy weapons, arming swords, and calvary. In this category you could include the Riders of Rohan, Soldiers of Gondor, Uru-kai (as equipped at Helm's Deep). - Then you have the "rangers". A class of warrior garbed in cloak and leather armor and equipped with longsword and bow. This second class covers greater distances, with stealth, and lives off the land. Much as in the mold of a light-infantry or skirmishing force. In this category you'd put Aragorn and the Dunedin rangers (not in the movie), the fellowship of the ring. Legolas (and perhaps most elves in general), Lurtz and his Uru-kai (as equipped when intercepting the fellowship), Faramir and the Rangers of Gondor. This second class. The ranger class. Has much greater utility in performing missions - and greatly relies on speed, stealth, and quickness of action. The use of a two-handed or hand-and-a-half sword actually makes sense. Protection from multiple foes comes from movement and stealth - but when one does engage a foe, that engagement should be quick and deadly. So as not to become embroiled in a duel and loose one's momentum. Despite the weaknesses you mention, the kind of sword Aragorn carries gives the kind of over-match required in this scenario... Aragorn manages multiple foes with movement.

[@burrowowl]

At the risk of being That Guy, in an era with full plate harness armor, I would recommend using a firearm against cave trolls. If we must insist on a no-gunpowder arsenal, one would think that an even modestly well-equipped garrison in a setting where dragons and giant eagles and trolls exist they'd have some kind of heavy crossbows suitable for penetrating such opponents. Engaging such a creature in melee would be a desperate act of last resort.

[@plaidpvcpipe3792]

Plate armor only exists in those movies as a stylistic direction. In the source material, the level of technology is very clearly early medieval. So there are no firearms.

[@VK-sz4it]

War elefants were seen as such, but later people managed to deal with them. Also, fellowship are bunch of super-humans.

[@Egladhon]

Excellent video. I too envisioned the period being earlier, maybe circa 1100-1200 Britain. In the books Aragorn’s sword, Andúril, isn’t described in incredible detail, however Aragorn does pick up a shield as he starts to fight in battle. So it stands to reason it’s shorter than a longsword.

[@axebeard6085]

I'm not a Tolkien scholar, but my impression of the lore was that the first and second ages were times of greater knowledge. It seems like at that time, there would be the equivalent of today's steel. In contrast, the men of Gondor we're greatly diminished. I suspect the Gondorian armor only looked like steel. If the metal was actually something less durable, it might make sense for arrows to punch through them.

[@cammoblammo]

This is correct. Middle-earth and Númenor reached the zenith of its technology in the Second Age. The Elves reached there’s even earlier. It was a constant theme of the Lord of the Rings that building and weapons had been so much better in the ancient days.

[@slome815]

​@@cammoblammo Sure, but thinking that Gondor didn't have steel is entirely unreasonable, and it's certainly not in the books. I mean, normal steel would be a step down anyway. In the first age elves were fighting Morgoth, multiple Balrogs and Dragons, sometimes even in single combat. Especially the knights of Dol Amroth are very clearly medieval knights in armor. "And last and proudest, Imrahil, Prince of Dol Amroth..., with gilded banners bearing his token of the Ship and the Silver Swan, and a company of knights in full harness riding grey horses; and behind them seven hundreds of men at arms, tall as lords, grey-eyed, dark-haired, singing as they came." We also know that Denethor had chain mail under his coat to keep himself fit. When asked what the Rohirrim looked like in a letter, Tolkien wrote the following answer: "'The styles of the Bayeux Tapestry (made in England) fit them well enough, if one remembers that the kind of tennis-nets [the] soldiers seem to have on are only a clumsy conventional sign for chainmail of small rings." Historically, chain mail was also never made from anything but iron or steel. I really doubt Tolkien envisioned armor not being steel.

[@cammoblammo]

@@slome815 Oh, sure. I’m not sure where the other guy got the idea that Gondor didn’t use steel. My point was simply that late Third Age Gondor wasn’t as advanced technologically as Númenor was. One really minor point: Narsil was made in the First Age. Those shards Aragorn carried around were well over 6000 years old!

[@slome815]

@@cammoblammo You are right, I already deleted that part of the comment before you posted your reply. I assumed because it came from numenor it was 2nd age. But right after I posted it I started doubting if there was actually information in any of Tolkiens work on the history of Narsil, and I looked it up and it was indeed made by Telchar in the first age. I didn't know that, it's in the unfinished tales apparently. I tend to only remember things from LOTR and the Silmarilion.

[@brettmurphy3237]

speaking of Boromirs shield, if you watch the behind the scenes footage from fellowship, there is a scene in Moria after they have fled Balins tomb and are running down the narrow stair, when the orcs first shoot at them as they jump the gap, you can see wire frame models of Boromir using his shield to stop goblin arrows from hitting merry and pippin, if you look carefully when Boromir grabs the hobbits and jumps there are actually arrows stuck in his shield despite the blocking arrow scene never taking place in the final edit, also there is a lingering shot of Boromirs shield on the ground at the battle at Parth Galen when the fellowship realises both Frodo and Boromir have wandered off, a nice subtle nod to the fact if he took his shield he may have been able to block the arrows that eventually killed him

[@Overlord99762]

Matt: And the new series from Amazon Wish its existence was just a bad dream...

[@edraith]

One of the main problems in the visual adaptaions is that they took orcs from roleplaying games and other fantasy settings. In Tolkien's Legendarium Orcs are either ruined Elves and ruined Men or something else akin to that idea of having a mockery of the Children of Ilùvatar. We see in Peter Jackson movies those strange alien vampire-zombies from the outer space: those are not Orcs. We see in Peter Jackson movies Saruman kinda creating Uruk-Hai and that's strange since Sauron had "created" Uruk-hai centuries before that and Saruman obtained them from Sauron... What Saruman further did is he created half-orcs, goblin-men and PERHAPS a sort of half-orcish Uruk-hai people being phisically straighter and taller-looking than Mordor's Uruk Hai who were slightly more gorilla-like in appearance. Anyway every sort of Uruk-hai in the Legendarium are by average smaller and less strong then Men (until we look at a few selected captains, usually giants among Orcs) but somehow in the movies they become some kind of huge Half-Trolls entirely covered in plate (?? no thing as such in the Legendarium, until we meet Half-Trolls, it is...) In the books Orcs are crooked coward very small half-beasts and they pose not the same level of threat as in the movies unless we think about a few very peculiar specimen as the Great Goblin of the Hobbit who might have actually been a Maia (a deity) incarnated in a giant orcish body or if we think about a few extremely huge Orc Chieftains and Captains.

[@edraith]

Of course a visual adaptation set many millennia before the one by Peter Jackson poses a problem: what have happened through tens of centuries? (I mean to arts, artisans, technologies, how many times those things might have changed?) In the Amazon serial they might have decided to have a more Renaissance-like look, which is perfectly fine to me.

[@edraith]

Another problem with the adaptaion, at least a "problem" for strategy nerds like us, is that in the Legendarium of Middle-earth there is a clear distinction in greatness in soul and body alike for Elves and especially for the Noldor in relation to common Men from the Third Age Middle-earth: halfway from those extremes we meet the descendants of Nùmenor, since they come from a line of people who lived closer to the borders of Aman and the Powers in the West (Valar and Maiar, we might think of them as halfway indoeuropean deities halfway angels) hence during the Second Age they recieved some of their grace, they were blessed and ennobled (they already were blessed like all the Edain for having lived with the Elves in the West, then they survived the War of Wrath at the end of the First Age which granted them all another blessing and a greater one at that for those who chose to sail for Nùmenor). Noldor warriors and Nùmenorean warriors from their peak during the Second Age are just on a different level than say the Rohirrim who in turn descending from some of the Edain who fought in War of Wrath at the end of First Age are somehow participating in some grace and blessing too and so up to that point in Second and Third Age even those descendants of the Edain who did not sail to live in Nùmenor still were kinda "superior" to other people from Middle-earth... and those common people from Middle-earth are in turn superior to Orcs, both in soul and body, Orcs are just a ruined thing. So for example when we see Galadriel sending a whole Batallion of Elven warriors from Lothlorien to the Hornburg in the movies that's bullcrap: for starters there's not enough Elves at the end of Third Age to even arrange such a batallion, and then again why not just charge the enemy at that point? They don't charge because Elves in the adaptaion became smaller cuter vegan-like people while the Uruk-hai became iron-clad giants... Dwarves too in the Legendarium are far more than just a comic relief: they are incredibly strong for their size and are the most resilient people among all when it comes to heat, cold and physical stamina (where all Elves and the Noldor especially are already super-human in level, please mind...)

[@edraith]

All that being said: regarding "reach" we have to remember Orcs are little, usually very stunted and crooked or even deformed in legs and arms; usually they do not even posses real weapons and armour, they might have some crude forms of weapons they are able to make from things stolen here and there but unless we think about Saruman's and Sauron's armies we have to imagine Orcs more like some sort of half-chimp savages, just way less strong than chimps and way less attuned to nature and wisdom than both real-world and Tolkien's Middle-earth "primitive people". So reach with common orcs it's not really a problem, the problem might arise against bigger stronger ones who are usually captains. Bilbo and Frodo (they should be around less and 3'7" and less than 3'11" respectively but please take that with a grain of salt since it's an extrapolation of mine and NOT Tolkien's word) both wield the same Noldorin dagger meant for a young Princeling from the First Age (it might have been Tuor's or perhaps Earendil's since he was still a very little kid back when Gondolin was sacked?) as a sword (in the movies is perhaps a bastard one-and-a-half sword the different shape nothwithstanding?) and while they both are not warriors and not expected to fight, that's enough to try and somehow fence a bit against common Orcs. Sam and Frodo, both probably between 3'6" and 3'11", successfully disguise as marching Orcs in Mordor, meaning very small orcs being in the regular army of Mordor must not be unheard of. Aragorn is 6'6" and wields a sword originally brandished by Elendil who was said to be either two rangar and a half (meaning 7'11" and closely resembling a similar data from the Historia Augusta pertaining Massimino il Trace) or perhaps around 7 feet tall in another version; anyway that sword was made by Telchar and it's not unlikely it had originally been made for Thingol of Doriath (in some versions "the tallest" of everyone among the Children of Ilùvatar, likely above 8 feet tall). Gandalf and Thorin wield two swords who where originally meant to be a couple brandished by King Turgon of Gondolin (both at the same time?). In the movie they are renditioned as one being a longsword or perhaps bastard sword and the other one being perhaps similar to a Makhaira or perhaps a lil bit to Messer, anyway they would look way smaller in the hands of Turgon, who was in one version said to be taller than any other children of God but Thingol himself (might we imagine Orcrist having been just a hunting knife for him?)... Merry and Pippin both gets to be over 4'5" tall by the end of the story, after having had Entwater in different occasions (before and after the War of the Ring) and they don't seem small nor puny to Orcs unless we look at two great Orc captains who kinda handled them like packages halfway the story, when they hadn't had Entwater and still were both less than 4" feet tall anyway. Dwarves, who are exceptionally strong and reslient and very big built but not much taller than hobbits, where seen as a good counter-part on the battle-field to Uruk-hai, the latter being less strong, stocky and brave but probably a taller. In the Movies they just modified the Orcs too much, especially the Uruk-hai, for the balance at war to still be there. What Orcs mostly do is assault by surprise if they got numbers and then scatter and run away since they are too afraid to commit with their original intentions...

[@TheArchaos]

Next video idea: Melee weapons of OG stormtroopers from WW1 or the Death Krops of Kreig from 40k, either works.

[@fornamnefternamn1532]

This is so interesting! Something I started wondering is, what would the foes use? Are twohanded swords a good idea for an uruk-hai or an ork, or what would they prefer?

[@ontheheath]

Hi Matt. Really interesting thought experiment. One factor that I think you overlooked is the material and craftsmanship of the different races. Many of the LotR heroes are using elven weapons (and armor). Light, retaining a very sharp edge, etc to an almost magical degree. If we accept fantastical races, it would be arbitrary to say only our mundane weapons can be considered. Additionally, dwarves are master crafters and forgers. Compare that with the crude form-poured weapons of the orcs (seen in FotR). That must change the math. Yes?

[@cloudcleaver23]

There's no indication that Aragorn carried a bow. The book explicitly labels Anduril as the only weapon he took when they left Rivendell.

[@alistairgrey5089]

He was a ranger and Tolkien defined rangers as carrying bows in most instances.

[@littlekong7685]

It is mentioned that he survived hunting game, and could collect game if the Hobbits spied any from afar. Implies a bow or a sling at least, and a knife to process the food with. He does use a knife to collect herbs at one point, but a knife would generally be seen as a tool not a true weapon in most senses of the word (not the same as a dedicated battle dagger).

[@davidpnewton]

@@alistairgrey5089 yes he was a ranger but the OP is quite to correct to state that the book explicitly says he carried no weapon but Andúril after leaving Rivendell. "Aragorn had Andúril but no other weapon, and he went forth clad only in rusty green and brown, as a Ranger of the wilderness." Interestingly another thing said at that point is, "Boromir had a long sword, in fashion like Andúril ...." So Andúril is specifically referred to as a "long sword", as is Boromir's sword. So portraying it as an arming sword would be directly contradicting the book.

[@Ninjamanhammer]

@@davidpnewton Does it say longsword, or long sword? Because an arming sword on the larger side could be a long sword.

[@davidpnewton]

@@Ninjamanhammer stop splitting hairs. In the context of the quote it is quite clear what is being referred to.

[@grouchymax6451]

Elves have existed for more than 10k years at the time of the Lotr and Elves have developed much better technologies than humans. Humans have existed for more than 5k years, And Númenorians (Gondorian and Dunedain ancestors) had far more advanced tech than common humans (Northmen, Dale, Rohan) so I think Peter Jackson view was spot on.

[@PalleRasmussen]

You forget that Tolkien's mythos is based in what we would call Migration Period, Anglo-Saxon period or Early Middle Ages; IE the period from around approximately 400 AD to 1100 AD.

[@eloryosnak4100]

You may never see this, but id love a look or review of For Honor's armour/weapons, at least the Japanese and Knight factions. Especially a review perhaps not of "did this exist" but of "could this have" I think could be really interesting for a game that pride(d) itself on being semi-realistic

[@Nerazmus]

For Honour is mostly accurate in most places. The Knight faction is very accurate. Warden, Warmonger, Lawbringer, Conqueror and Grifon are basically historical. Centurion would obviously want a shield to go along with Gladius, but otherwise fine. Gladiator is obviously inspired by gladiators and thus not a soldier; going into battle without armour is dumb. PK is surprisingly plausible; if you aren't strong enough to hit hard against armour, thin short swords and daggers would be great at striking at the gaps. Samurai faction is bit more hit and miss. Kensei and Orochi are perfect. The rest is plausible, but runs into the problem of "where is your armour" And that repeats for the other factions. Mostly plausible, but very often lacking in armour.

[@D-Pooly]

I'd love to see you do a video like this, or a general analysis, of the Predator's weapons, including the AVP movies since in the first one (2004) they have massive underarm blades that always made me wonder if such a weapon makes sense or of it would be usable at all

[@kristoffersana960]

This is a FANTASY world. NOTHING is historically accurate. How could it possibly even looked at this way? It’s not like Frodo has a gatling gun. Which would be epic.

[@scholagladiatoria]

Because they use swords of historical types, and there are only a few sensible ways to use swords by people with two arms and two legs.

[@khaccanhle1930]

Don't even mention the TV series, "The Woke of the Ring." I refuse to watch it. The original film series is so good precisely because it could NOT be made in today's world.

[@Cleanpea]

I like the nod in the video, to the migration era/anglo-saxon period technology. This is what Tolkien intended and I think it works the best for the setting. This is when objects, in particular weapons, had sentient properties, curses and personality, where mythology was more in tune with the land and nature, than in the more abstractly defined monoethics brought, in the later medieval times. Shield and spear, sword and dagger at the belt, maille and helmets for the warriors, lighter bows for hunting, making camp and hunting/foraging every day, rather than bringing too many supplies; which would consist of spices, herbs, oats, pots and pans. The books leave many details to be desired, which is probably one of the reasons they are so timeless. Regardless, I prefer to go by the author's recommendation: Tech from around y1000.

[@TheRealCaptainLavender]

Please, for the love of Arda. Do NOT conflate 'Amazon's: Rings of Power' with JRRT's ' The Lord of The Rings'. They have NOTHING to do with each other and the sooner muggles and normies understand the sooner we can all forget Amazon tried to capitalize on the professor's works by turning them into a contemporary gender studies program.

[@zoiders]

Why do you bigot fashy boys always have anime profile pictures?

[@Rembanspellsong]

for the weapons used against the Treants, the books say they used fire to burn and axes to chop them down like trees. they weren't attacking them with swords, spears, or bows. and as for the shields on the sides of the rohirrim, they use those once they get dismounted, but they use their offhand to hold the reins since the actors and probably the horses weren't actually trained to fight or ride without using the reins.

[@-Anarion-]

Oh, come on. Aragorn has the best kind of armor, plot armor. Besides, he's a king yet to be. The weapon of a king is a magnificent sword. We couldn't have him running along with two machetes, for example. And yes, he's been patrolling the wilderness for most of his life, so the most useful weapon he'd be obliged to carry and would be most accustomed to, would be a machete... Preposterous.

[@JainaSoloB312]

17:00 If "rate of fire" is indeed a very important factor, then a bastard sword as Aragorn carries seems like the perfect choice. Lighter, more maneuverable, and faster than a longsword, and still faster than a 1h arming sword, with more reach. I'm not certain that the dimensions line up exactly, but it seems clear to me that Andúril is meant to be a hand-and-a-half sword by the hilt design, and Aragorn certainly uses both his swords as such. Aragorn's incredible skill would likely make enough of a difference that he'd opt for the speed and reach of a bastard sword rather than sacrifice those advantages for a shield. And in times when he did acquire an offhand weapon (a torch, a shield, another sword, etc) he could still easily use the bastard sword with one hand.

[@riheg]

And I’m asking if there’s representation enough in the new series because if you can’t be it you can’t see it. As a black man in wheelchair I demand representation! Seriously I am beyond frustrated about how Amazon ditches the lore, and I don’t think it is racist to have a problem with that

[@WJS774]

One thing I don't _think_ I caught you mentioning is that the Fellowship spends most of their time _travelling,_ not fighting. A smaller sword would be easier to travel with than a greatsword, plus of course as others have mentioned a greatsword would do you no favours in a place like Moria. Another thing it might be interesting to see a video on would be a breakdown of the _specific_ weapons, not just the weapon types. Are the longswords good examples of longswords? The orcish weapons look _hideous,_ but would they be practical? What about the more fantasy looking weapons of the Hobbit films compared to the Lord of the Rings films?

[@wolfensniper4012]

As someone who are really tired of seeing people saying “spears” everywhere, i feel so relieved when Matt saying other optimal choices of weapons like swords and shield or Dane Axe instead of simply saying spears

[@OhshitPositive]

Not a single mention of Legolas using a shield smh

[@QazwerDave]

The assumption of Frankish era (tech) seems wrong. Kingsdoms and people groups have existed for many many thousands of years by the time of LotR, and there are monsters !!

[@celticperspective5183]

The assumption makes sense to me, thousands of years have passed in real history and pre history, and we have fought creatures quite similar to what you would call monsters. Mammoths and different races of men for example, Neanderthals and such would have been the competitors to our ancestors. Obviously the technology seems more consistent in tolkeins world than ours but you have magic to bring things together, no need to advance when you have magic that can solve problems. Also one of Saruman and saurons missions is to start an industrial revolution in middle earth, so this is a factor to consider too

[@QazwerDave]

@@celticperspective5183 World history doesn't match Silmarillion at all. Certain warfare and technology has existed for way too long to assume the same for the period of LotR. A reason must be provided for an assumption of stagnation.

[@NevisYsbryd]

Yeah, it has _loose_ analogues to Bronze Age Egypt and Byzantium in Gondor, 17th/18th century rural England in the Shire, a not-very-accurate allusion to the Anglo-Saxons in Rohan, and others. It has no solid real world historical analogue, but several 1/3 accurate semi-analogue groups. It is a pan-European fantasy, not medieval fantasy.

[@mindstalk]

The assumption of Frankish tech is quite accurate to the text. You may think it's unrealistic, but it's what Tolkien chose. And in reality, Europe used mail for like 2000 years. With a larger population and more tech growth than Middle-earth.

[@Murkglow]

I mean, Uruk-hai were a new unknown enemy that the Fellowship discovered during their journey, so they were hardly going to prepare for that. Similarly, Trolls generally weren't that numerous and the Fellowship didn't initially expect to run into any (after all generally trolls turn to stone in sunlight and the Fellowship didn't intend to go underground. Moria was a detour and was argued against even then). If anything wolves and the very occasional orcs, goblins, and wargs would be all they might expect but... They didn't plan on fighting at all unless required. As such, I think the fellowship does follow your expectations quite well: Boromir: Mail armor plus sword and shield. Gimli: Mail armor plus multiple axes. Two handed and one handed for dual wielding and throwing. Legolas: Heavy clothing plus bow and arrows and daggers. Aragorn: Heavy clothing plus bow and arrows and daggers. The longsword was just extra and more symbolic even if he used it a lot in the film. Gandalf: Magic. Oh and he had a sword which was also magic. I don't question demi-god wizards in what they feel like fighting with. Hobbits: Totally non-combatants so it really didn't matter. Not fit enough to travel in armor, not strong or skilled for using any weapons. Thrown rocks served them well.

[@javm2825]

Additionally to the Uruk-hai or Cave Troll question, if you are up against Uruk-hai hitting with the Axe from a Pollaxe would do the job, but with the Cave troll it is more likely to just bury the whole blade in him without taking the Troll down, and now your weapon is stuck… Use the Hammer side

[@emmitstewart1921]

Recently I was reading the Fellowship Of the Ring and found something that changed my mind about dwarves and their way of fighting. In the council of Elrond, when Gimli was introduced, Tolkien says, "At his side, he carried an axe." If he carried it easily at his side, it could not have been the huge, long shafted axe he carried in the movies. It was more likely something more on the order of a tomahawk or short handled Dane axe. We also know from Tolkien's account of the Battle of Azanulbizar that Thorin's shield was cloven, so he improvised a replacement from from the branch of an oak tree, so we know that dwarves combined their axes with shields. We also find them wearing chain mail. My vision sees them as very short ,but strong, people whose combat style would combine strength with speed and dexterity. They were blacksmiths, copper-smiths, goldsmiths,and silversmiths who traded the products of their forges for food and the other necessities of life. Groups of dwarf traders were apparently a common sight on the roads of Middle-Earth. As such, their most common foes would be roving bands of orcs or human bandits. A group of wagons loaded with ironware would have made them tempting targets to both groups, so dwarves would have plenty of opportunities for honing their fighting skills.