Are Version 1 Characters Still Good? | Genshin Impact

[@johnlennon8327]

Most of the power 5 can only be superseded by a better, 5* version of themselves. Xinqiu got this in Yelan but instead of being powercrept, he somehow managed to get buffed by this. Absolute madlad

[@robertokarlo1870]

True, but at the same time i find myself using him a lot less just because i have Yelan c1 with elegy. Like he is broken and i use him in the abyss, but in the overworld he might as well be dead to me lol

[@therranolleo468]

The thing about power 5 is that 4/4 of them are off-fielders who are gods at their roles, the only one I can see being removed is Sucrose due to her role being an on-fielder, everyone else would love to have a 2nd XL/Benny/Fiscl in their team

[@w.ae_l3367]

​@@therranolleo468she's an off feilder tho ? Use her skill and burst to group enemied buff your carry debuff enemies and you're good Just like kazuha We only use her on feild if you wanna play a team with strictly off fielders so making her onfield to do dmg woth her swirls is good

[@Gacha_Guides]

Yelan (c0) do more damage than xinque , and xinque do more hydro application than yelan (c0) But my yelan who is c6 though , doesnt need team at all i solo kill bosses and explore world faster than non yelan players..... Yelan (c6), is god of hydro.....i never remove her from my team . She is that worth mkre than xinque.

[@LordBanana0]

@@therranolleo468sucrose is just not popular because she’s clunky as hell to play. Yae is kinda like a 5 star fischl, but yea fischl is still op

[@thelaw_00]

Technically Hydro got buffed. Instead of giving you healing bonus, they changed it to extra max HP which has indirectly buffed HP-scaling characters

[@Jdogrey1]

Yeah, it made double hydro Hu Tao significantly more viable.

[@K.G444]

@@Jdogrey1​​⁠ Yeah a few Hydro characters rely on Max HP - Yelan, Ayato, Barbara, Kokomi, and Nilou, but only 1 of those work with Hu-Tao, “Yelan”. So it didn’t really change much, because Hu Tao was already OP with Xingqiu alone and the buff didn’t do anything for him.

[@gabrielquintero2137]

Indirectly? That sounds like a pretty direct buff to me.

[@celestialhumanoid]

​@@K.G444the hp buff also buffs hutao, and xingqiu's healing is buffed by hp.

[@cart6940]

@@celestialhumanoidIm pretty sure the swap from healing bonus to hp worsened XQ’s healing (not that it was by much or mattered)

[@stppy8464]

With furina out I think it's safe to assume that Jean is no longer benched.

[@al44tec]

Noelle as well. Gained some major stonks

[@maybeagamer179]

From the list of units shown and videos mentioned I don't think furina was out yet att

[@starstruck-11]

and with xianyun out shes back in the favonius basement

[@ruinthuessia1078]

😭😭😭​@@starstruck-11

[@starstruck-11]

@@ruinthuessia1078 i mean am i wrong 🥲🥲 she not only enables characters to become xiao but she also heals and is anemo so she can use the vv set, she's basically adeptus jean

[@oceanangel2896]

Thanks for giving venti the respect he deserves. Like yea he can’t deal with heavy enemies but bro is literally peak on the overworld, in farming domains and in certain floors of the abyss

[@baconmandanthe3rd944]

ganyu, while not really "meta" anymore, I feel is still unmatched in one area: open world it's just so easy to do things like quickly completing daily commissions, pulled for her on her latest banner despite having ayaka and i don't regret it one bit

[@StrawberryDubs]

I feel the same about venti. He makes almost anything in the over world a breeze - pun intended

[@Mew2222]

Yes, Ganyu is very good. I pulled her on her first banner in version 1.2 and I play most of the time as her. I can beat any content in the game with her so I did not notice any huge power creep. I do realize that hyperbloom and such trivialize the game and Ganyu is harder to play, but as Vars said "You are not ganna be punished if you are using her". I have all the "meta" units in the game but I like her playsyle the most.

[@ponderingfox]

Yeah, I have some of the best teams, but I just love doing daily stuff with my Ganyu freeze. This team also keeps Mona relevant.

[@NeonWilder]

I didn't pull for Ganyu because her gameplay seemed a bit.. bland, even though I liked her character alot. But maybe I should pull for her when she reruns. But in my case, Kazuha is that character that makes everything easier lol.

[@ponderingfox]

@@NeonWilder I have them both on a team, and it’s great!

[@garagemoney9237]

Jean: **benched** Furina: *"Your SAVIOR is HERE"*

[@adityacahyo6491]

You're underrating Sucrose man. Sucrose is not just slightly worse than Kazuha, but in some team comps she could be better because she buffs EM.

[@PenguinDust1969]

I would like a 2.0 review since Inazuma is my favorite generation of 5-stars. Three years in, I don't think Hoyo has a clear idea of what they want 4-stars to be. They over tuned many initially, then under powered them and now they are either C6 dependent or heavily niche.

[@hatooniewoomy]

Im hoping he does a 2.0 one because inazuma has a lot of 5 stars that I love, and a 3.0 one would be nice too (maybe when we're more into version 4.0 with furina out and such)

[@uribove]

lisa is a strong support for aggravate team tho, high application, decent sized field

[@hedgeyes6411]

Quicken in general, really. Especially Spread, as Lisa's A4 is one of the only ways to further amp Dendro damage.

[@idk-sy3iu]

true but using her on field is really painful, though her passive is pretty good

[@uribove]

@@idk-sy3iu and you on field XL or XQ?

[@idk-sy3iu]

@@uribove XL and xq are the best in their slots. in aggravate teams you want 2 electro characters, where one is almost always fischl and the other is a character that can trigger fischl's A4 enough when on field. Lisa isn't the best option on aggravate at all, like she does work but she's not the best in that team, comparing her to xl and xq is stupid

[@uribove]

@@idk-sy3iu you can also have an anemo driver because aggravate has value in 4pVV

[@nakashima8453]

I was gonna regret my Childe pull that I was saving for Neuvillette but I really, REALLY, love his playstyle and his smug b*stard personality and I couldn’t resist. When I got him I was like, oh, there goes Neuvillette, and I felt kinda regretful, but after I tested him on a Hyperbloom team and a Vapourise Team, yeah no, I do not regret him. This tier list has given even more assurance that I don’t have to regret him. Thank you Vars

[@tankadamka]

Tartag is dope. He does so much damage and he is unique in every way. I had him from last rerun (before 4.0.) and I love him.

[@allieyeats758]

I was saving for Neuvillette until I realized that building his teams would either mean pulling essential characters from my current spiral teams or raising multiple supports alongside Neuvi. After watching his pre-release analysis, I decided Childe would be a more efficient pull as I already built his international comp. I got him, and I think he has the highest single hit damage on my account after 4 days of pulling him. I regret nothing!!!😅😅😅

[@thegurlama7356]

@@allieyeats758 How in the world does he have the highest damage out of all ur characters his personal damage is pretty mid he shines the most as a driver so your other charaters must not be well built.

[@antoniohumberto5510]

@@thegurlama7356well, to be fair his ult does hit like a truck especially after vaporizing, so it is possible

[@w.ae_l3367]

He doesnt have a "smug bastard" personality tho ? Its the fandom mischaracterising him He's actually a young warrior who has a huge lust for battle and has a spft side for his family

[@danielferrieri7434]

Video Idea: Should Genshin Impact be on the Nintendo Switch

[@Grenino]

Should it? 100%. Will it? Unless there’s a cloud version, probably not

[@Jdogrey1]

💀

[@JoJoZaka]

switch would explode trying to load it unless they swap every texture for 144p ones and remove volumetric lighting and effects

[@thaitoan4760]

After seeing MK1…not so much

[@gunman8452]

The game lags like hell on PS4 and the load times are horrendous, the switch is weaker than the PS4 so I don't think it's happening unless Nintendo make a new console

[@nikkif6871]

"I don't think Jean is a good sell for a lot of people anymore" *Furina enters the chat*

[@GentleIceZ]

Yanfei is fantastic in Burgeon, quite frankly. So if anyone wants to use her but not sure how, that's what I'd go with. My team with her is Nahida, Yelan/Xingqiu, Kokomi. And fun fact, this team absolutely bullies the Iniquitous Baptist. I'd put her in niche, but that's just me That said, I really do think Lisa and Razor should be in Niche. Lisa's got decent dendro teams and works really well as an Electro unit for Alhaitham's spread teams (Yae is better and Fischl won't trigger her A4 with spread), and Thundering Furry is a legit team comp (as weird as it is)

[@KHFreack]

you could say that any pyro or electro unit by virtue of burgeon and hyperbloom have a reason to be used. hell even dehya works well in a curry team sure she isnt the main focus but having a defensive non burst reliant option for offield pyro apply has alot of value,might become more useful with neuvi for the interupt resist or maybe even furina if she can make blooms happen during dehya burst,but lets not get ahead of time. so unless your name is xinyan you can always be used in blooms teams so niche exists for em. how good they be in said one.that depends on the account i guess.

[@SeenE-kg9nj]

Do you build triple EM + EM weapon on her? I might try that, mine is fully built 9/9/9 because I use her in overworld all the time

[@derman1907]

Burgeon Yanfei is incredible. She decimates everything in her path.

[@GentleIceZ]

@@SeenE-kg9nj Huh. I actually don't. I just have a standard atk%/pryo+/crit% on her. I don't really like switching around my artifacts, so I didn't even consider it but I probably should here. EM would most likely be more useful in burgeon ^^;

[@Pelfmiester]

I 36 starred the current Abyss with Yanfei double Hydro. I actually use Yanfei more and more as time goes by.

[@sdgre]

If you are gonna put Klee in niche cuz of mono pyro, then I don't see a reason to not put Jean in niche. Sunfire is very good in breaking shields.

[@H2Ocup]

Mono Pyro is much better than sunfire.

[@jellomello984]

Sunfire is very situational, mono pyro works in a lot of scenarios

[@bubblekazoo]

I feel like if niches had more layers of niches, sunfire jean would definetely be one of the nichest of the niches.

[@JMike-bq6rl]

Klee would have been top tier if her Burst could work in Off Field.

[@bnd2nd]

Sunfire jean can be pretty good for Burgeon as well

[@Fr00stee]

i view yanfei as the 4* main dps you use when you don't have any 5* main dps

[@MrSquishy0]

Well if you don't have hu tao or yoimiya But I like Yanfei's character and animations

[@dot2604]

oppa

[@anyaaa2801]

Agree. She even was my first 4 stars dps. Obviously since she's a 4 stars and strictly a dps only just like Heizou and Kaveh, her output is going to be limited but that's normal.

[@anyaaa2801]

​@@dot2604 Read the comment again. They said dps. Not offfield dps.

[@xraeynex]

lol Yanfei has stayed my main dps even after whaling for 5*s. I use her way more than Hu Tao. I even have two 5*s on the team I use with Yanfei, but she still sees more uptime than any of my other characters.

[@BlazeLibra]

Man if only you waited til Furina released to do this tier list. She really changed up the power of characters like Jean

[@ra6765]

Honestly I think Benny Xingqiu Xiangling will still gonna be the strongest characters in game ever until Genshin ends. Hoyo has shown to be very adamant not to powercreep them and as long as they still do that expect your anticipated 5 stars to only be alternatives for them.

[@thegurlama7356]

I think back in the early game the devs didnt know how good xianling bennet and xq were. Now they want to milk as much money as they can with the 5 stars and that is why the new 4 star units are mostly bad or mid. People spend money for the 5 stars and not the 4* mostly.

[@ra6765]

@@thegurlama7356 yes but not even the 5 stars are better than them if you have only at lile c0-c1. Thats the thing, theyre too scared of powercreeping them. Even Yelan, the ultimate fanservice character with the same kit at Xq is still considered a sidegrade.

[@thegurlama7356]

@@ra6765 Yeah I know what u mean. Im rly glad they exist. All of them are top tier units the power 5. There will probably never be better 4* units ever like u said.

[@Drae_Mass]

@@ra6765 not even, Bennett is the best support in the game, whether it’s a c0 or c6 5 star. And xiangling as sub dps also mathematically competes with most other c6 5 stars (not counting yelan as she’s in a league of her own), xingqiu just goes on the second team for abyss so still as meta as ever against other c6 5 stars.

[@f.b.l.9813]

more like Genshin devs didn't know how good Bennett, Xingqiu and Xiangling really were, since they don't seem to want or can't nerf them, they also can't just make even more powerful characters replace them in meta since that would nerf other 1.x "in comparison" so they're stuck making meh 4* characters, mihoyo just messed up with making bennett, xingqiu and xiangling.

[@Enric.]

I think Noelle is not that benched because she received four buffs at the same time in Inazuma - Husk of Opulent Dreams - Redhorn - Yunjin - Gorou You can build a good team for Noelle now, but yes, it needs three C6 4* characters, two R5 favonius weapons, six crowns, and ideally a 5* weapon

[@cosmefulanito5052]

That's quite a lot, no? Since genshin is a resource management game, I don't think that's a very cost efficient way to spend my resources

[@zanaorpherlia4595]

All that works to still do less dmg than xiangling 💀

[@paulyvii]

So you need a niche artifact set and two niche supports which not only need C6 but also need good talent levels for Noelle to perform. Which costs millions of mora, talent books, and exp books. All of that for her to be outdamaged by Hyperbloom. Got it. Let's leave Noelle benched

[@matthewsarson6934]

As someone who has all those things i agree. It's still not one of my strongest teams but thats not a Noelle problem its a Geo problem.

[@beaniemave]

I mean, Vars never said Noelle can't be used or that she hasn't receieved buffs. She has a solid kit and is not un-useable, but is put in the "benched" category on account of how she performs relative to her competition (aka Itto). She is basically a decent early game character for her role consolidation of DPS and Tank, but in the endgame, that role consolidation isn't as valued compared to just getting more damage (especially since mono geo is already a tanky team since you're building most of the characters there with DEF anyway). So, while I think your argument is valid, it's not something already not addressed by Vars in this video.

[@Emerald-kun]

Vars really did Lisa dirty. Seeing her in the same tier as Amber almost made me cry. I mean, come on! Her burst snapshots, her ascension stat is EM, and she does well in Aggravate as both an on-field Electro applicator or off-field burst support. She also gives a DEF-debuff if you want damage per screenshot. I'd argue that she received as much benefit as Keqing does with the addition of Dendro into the game.

[@acardoza1234]

Absolutely! He must never have explored her much cuz she's really undervalued.

[@SaiSymbolic]

Right. She even has cheap and easy access to def shred, so she is at bare minimum useful (edit: and I saw you had this point in your comment but Im just going to leave it in mine lol)

[@Emerald-kun]

@@SaiSymbolic lmao quickfinger moment huh

[@inplane9970]

Lisa is mostly held back by gacha RNG. She needs C6 to function, but she's rare af. Unless Hoyo finally puts her on a banner, a lot of people aren't going to bother committing resources to her. Same with Kaeya and Amber.

[@acardoza1234]

@@inplane9970 I see your point about it being difficult to get her constellations, but I very much disagree that C6 is vital to her kit. Yes if you wanna mess around with her skill more, it provides a nice quality of life. I would argue that she only needs C4 to be at max functionality since her burst is her most important ability. Even without it tho, she's plenty functional in the abyss on dendro teams. I just recently only got C3 and have been clearing the abyss with her for a while now with her as just a burst support.

[@jonathanrobinson198]

Mona is still pretty good and rather flexible when it comes to personal damage and giving a great performance boost.

[@matthewsarson6934]

And of course she is almost necessary for people making video's where they try to do a million damage lol

[@blastzd]

no, shes only used in freeze ayaka team, and even then shes not the best option there.

[@Volair]

Noelle might be objectively not as good as Itto, but... I'd have to spend primos on Itto. So she's God tier simply for the reason I can play an amazing Geo Claymore carry without spending anymore than I normally would. Rather have Redhorn + Noelle over Itto.

[@hedgeyes6411]

She's comfy, too. Provides her own defensive utility, burst maintains through swaps so you can do the absolutely sloppiest rotations known to mankind... Itto might have raw power, but Noelle C6 + Whiteblind R5 clears Abyss with almost the same amount of brainless unga bunga.

[@tim-myton6361]

Same. I love Noelle to death, and I can’t stand Itto. He’s really annoying. Noelle is as loveable as she is useful. Which is to say, extremely. It’s a crime she’s not a full knight.

[@joeltoomer3332]

Same you can just use r5 white blind/red horn and a gorou and she’s hitting for 30k easily. She should atleast be in niche

[@Grzester23]

For Itto, you also need Zhongli, meanwhile Noelle can easily slot a more damage oriented unit like Fischl or Yun Jin to boost the team's damage. Whether that's better than higher raw power of Itto + Zhongli's Res Shred, I don't know, but that is something to consider

[@AllOrZer0]

Noelle is the best at what she is; a one maid army. To my knowledge, there isn’t another character in the game that covers as much utility as she does as well as she does. She's one of the few characters that's just flat out hard to kill in combat. Her shield trivializes encounters, her DPS clears crowds easily and will usually outlast them, and she heals the rest of the party while doing so. The other three slots on her roster consist of solving problems with Geo as an insular element to me. Figure out a way to break your target shield, and you're good to go. The other interesting thing about her is that she grows with an account in ways that make sense. She starts out a shield or healer because of limited initial options (stick her in Maiden Beloved on a fresh account and never die), and grows into a DPS swiss army knife as you get access to new artifacts and weapons (Husk and Whiteblind/Redhorn).

[@centrifeudal9966]

I'd personally argue that Razor is in the niche category strictly for the existence of the "Thundering Furry" comp. Razor, Nahida, Xingqiu, and C6 Bennett allows for a flurry of a lot of different reactions in rapid order that can do very respectable damage, and the only reason why this works so well on *him* specifically is due to the unique nature of his own burst where he doesn't override his attacks to a new element like other characters, but instead has his respective element attack in tandem with his own NAs, meaning he's efffectively the only unit who can make his own NAs 2 different elements. While his own damage..... exists.... his ability to enable reactive damage in a comp like this one specifically is fairly strong. (And if you substitute Nahida out for Dendro MC it's still fairly strong and becomes a bit more f2p.) Another potential comp you can utilize out of him for the same reason, (though not necessarily as affectively because Xingqiu's hydro application is already absurd) includes Razor, Nahida (DMC), Candace, and either another dendro unit or hydro unit here depending on what kind of application you're lacking, such as Xingqiu or Yaoyao.

[@draethdarkstar]

Lisa is quite strong as an Electro Hyperbloom driver and as a main or subdps for Aggravate. Probably the most underrated character in the game right now.

[@rsfakqj10rsf-33]

Lisa is technically the best electro option for pure spread. Alhaitham’s best team often involves her

[@ziebus904]

​@@rsfakqj10rsf-33wtf you mean often...only of you dont have fischl or kuki😂

[@musicaltarrasque]

@@ziebus904 No, Lisa has much better aoe, its a case of, "if fully built is better" If you can get 100% uptime on burst Lisa is waaay better

[@ziebus904]

@@musicaltarrasque she have ok aoe and if you want this just use fischl not to mention she gives negative energy generation

[@planetary-rendez-vous]

Problem is... I can't get constellations for her.

[@pyro226]

Ningguang was, and remains, among top of the 4 stars for damage. The only 4 star character that competes with her is Heizou. She's benches because 5 stars, particularly Itto, are just that mich stronger. Ningguang is not in the "never good" category.

[@TheMicakuh]

hard agreed

[@eminala7380]

Right. I was thinking how was she never good when there was a time a good chunk of the fandom kept saying Ningguang is good enough to be a 5 star character? She definitely did good damage

[@Zancity6666]

It’s funny as I listened to him flame this while using ningguang for floor 12. not meta but so fun and satisfying to use, a high investment hard hitter!

[@BrendenBarlow]

Glad you said this, was looking for this comment.

[@ajreyes1262]

ikr, my level 70 Ningguang is doing 30k per charged attack with level 4 talent level with bennett, imagine if she has more supports

[@Menageryl]

You’re right on several counts. But far from all of them! Mona is still IMMENSELY useful as a damage buffer and hydro applier. On top of other miscellaneous uses. She fits into many teams easily. And Noelle. Dude. It kills me how few people actually know her worth. She has a shield that can rival the Archon’s. Can heal. And can do damage on-field as much as any other DPS. What’s not to like. There are a few other characters I take issue with, but those were the 1st two that really jumped out at me… I suppose it always depends on you available roster, how well you have built the character in question, your needs, and your experience.

[@MulderHiggins]

using a character in a team they "weren't meant for" doesnt mean they're bad units. just bc razor was meant to be a physical carry doesnt meant that his damage in his best team is incredibly good and very strong. Im not a razor main and i never rlly liked him but i think that using characters for reasons other than their intended purpose is good! It's creative and it's STRONG

[@cardescomedioses3674]

Yeah, i unironically enjoy xinyan as a phisical nuker from time to time

[@Max-rh8kb]

For razor try out the thunderry furry team (Razor nahida xingqiu c6 bennett). The fact that his auto can be infusion in his ults allows full EM razor to both burgeon + hyperbloom a seeds, effectivelly double the seeds potential dmg. But like you said in this team he does all color dmg expect the one thing you build him for which is physical lmao. Still this is my shield breaker team for that annoying 3 shield lectors and it's more then good enough to clear 36 stars.

[@boshlovely2002]

Razor is the only character capable of this in any capacity because of his unique kit, it’s a niche that only he can fulfill and its very good at and the limited thought process for him to say that Razor was meant to be physical and because his best comp doesn’t utilize that then he’s being used wrong is whack dude putting him in benched along with Jean (who has sunfire) but then putting Klee (mono pyro) in niche shows the blatant favoritism

[@matthewsarson6934]

I would have thrown Venti into niche, since its pretty damn rare in abyss for him to be more useful than Sucrose or Kazuha. Mostly due to the number of boss's. Noelle should also be up in the same catogory. If you think C6 Noelle is strictly a downgrade on C0 Itto, you need to try playing her.

[@robertokarlo1870]

But the thing is that on floors where he can be used, he is quite amazing. Its not like everyone clears floor 12 on their first run or with the same teams. You can just go into difrent chambers with difrent teams to clean up and get your missing stars. Thats where i think he and teams like Ayaka freeze shine best.

[@atriyakoller136]

As an Elegy haver I find myself using Venti more often than Sucrose, even on bosses - although, that's partly due to having a balanced crit/atk build on him with 300-ish EM on top. And as for a C6 Noelle vs C0 Itto the energy management for Noelle is such a problem that she's barely playable with my Itto's gear, and Zhongli and Gorou on Favonius. I also haven't levelled her talents too much, with her having lvl 4-5 talents, but she does the same damage my Itto at lvl 8-9 talents...the only caveat being that her damage is like that with full buffs and his is with no buffs whatsoever

[@matthewsarson6934]

@@atriyakoller136 Elegy is a pretty underated weapon i would say. No one cares about the support ones but it's really damn good. So if you have i suppose thats reason enough. For Noelle if you can get her to around 130/135% ER with a fav weapon or two on supports like Gorou. That should sufficent in my experience. My brother has a C0 Itto with Redhorn and i have C6 Noelle also with Redhorn. The damage between the two is really similar. Itto is i think a little higher but Noelle is more convient since she does not lose the burst when swapping out + heals which does matter against rifthounds that common in abyss.

[@matthewsarson6934]

@@robertokarlo1870 Thats a fair point actually, i often go back and clear some floors with different teams. But you almost never see streamers do it.

[@arsalirahaiy5275]

He is a whale and doesnt understand what c6 npelle vs C0 itto is he prob would have him at c2

[@androsovsimon6369]

Very first clear of abyss was with Ningguang-Noelle combo team. It was pretty fun experience with Damage\Sustain potential of this combo. Ningguang, despite being 4*, can dish out pretty impressive damage. But when you are talking about Geo element characters - it is always a matter of single element capabilities. Where other elements have have elemental reactions to push their damage limits even further, Geo - can rely only on itself. That is why units like Itto stand out so much. Since "Dendro Impact" last hope for some meaningful element improvement for Geo is gone, tbh it feels like there is no point in any new Geo characters at this point, because their viability for players by default is lower then any other options.

[@pyro226]

Yanfei wasn't on the border of "not being good". Her vaporize damage (unfortunately requires Xingqiu) is up there with Ningguang and Heizou. It's just hat she requiees a highly valuable unit and a character slot to achieve such damage. I do agree with benched as she is outpaced by 5 star units, but she can keep up with the likes of Diluc and Vaporize Klee (Klee outpacing her by far in niche cases).

[@xraeynex]

with the klee comparision too, yanfei just feels nicer to play. she isn't as clunky and has longer range. I know that's subjective, but I would pick Yanfei over Klee any day of the week.

[@ganyumaindayone1112]

mona is played more than you think currently, even i was surprised to see her playrate and lisa is okayish now with dendro

[@RaynmanPlays]

A few of those "benched" characters need a bit of a revisit since Furina came out. Noelle and Jean in particular.

[@shangri-la-la-la]

And then with Furina... Jean and Noelle had their place.

[@baronsamedi5741]

Lisa was never good? Are you serious? Even after the arrival Dendro? Lisa is a staple member of Dendro team Lisa's Garden named specifically after her. She with an EM build alongside Dendro has helped me eliminate multiple enemies in spiral Abyss ever since I first got Nahida and YaoYao.

[@matthewsarson6934]

At the very least she should be in the teir above, she isn't on the same level as Amber, Traveller and Xinyan now we have Dendro. Its just that there are so many other strong electro characters to play.

[@baronsamedi5741]

@@matthewsarson6934 yeah she at least deserves to recognized as usable

[@rukaya4089]

yes thiss! she’s also a great support for dendro dps characters like alhaithem and tighnari thanks to her def shred and electro application

[@arsalirahaiy5275]

Ye agreed i use her to deff shred for tighnari and alhaitham hypercarry teams and it almost doubles the damage of them it should be on eaither niche or benched since there are just many other options still

[@BBP-OMO]

I mean why build Lisa when you have so many better electro characters since day 1? Even in the current meta Fish and Ei dominate

[@SeenE-kg9nj]

Great list - good that you realised that Childe is God Tier after the video. I only just got him despite first installing Genshin in 1.1 and I feel like I've been misled about his true power level this whole time by content creators. He is absolutely broken - I've 36* the current Abyss with him at lvl 69 6/6/6 and I know almost nothing about his optimal rotations (didn't even bother double-swirling) Just a little harsh on Lisa and Ningguan. Ningguan is completely fine for killing the wolflord which is the only reason why Geo exists in this game. And Lisa is decent in Aggravate/Spread teams (she can set up reactions for Alhaitham with Ult or trigger Fischl's A4 passive by on-fielding)

[@jakkubus]

Eh, Childe is pretty niche. After all outside of International he is nothing more than a copium Ayato.

[@Goro_Maj1ma]

​@@jakkubusmeh. Not really.

[@jakkubus]

@@Goro_Maj1ma Yes, outside of International he's pretty meh.

[@JoyceGL]

@@jakkubus Childe international > Ayato national Intergrassional > Ayato burgeon Childe bloom = Ayato bloom I'm not sure what you're talking abt when you say "outside of International he is nothing more than a copium Ayato" but clearly there are some teams are better w/ childe than Ayato outside of national.

[@SeenE-kg9nj]

@@jakkubus I went for him over Ayato because 99% of the time I would play this type of Hydro driver in the International and in my opinion the International performs better than any of Ayato's teams at non-whale investment. For any Dendro teams I prefer Dendro drivers because they produce more seeds, except for Burgeon where I use Kokomi (or XQ + Yelan together). Also Childe's kit is way more fun to use for me

[@Raiko01]

People like to say venti isnt OP because he cant drag heavy characters, but i view it in another way Venti is so OP that mihoyo had to go out of their way to invent, and add a line of code every abyss, stating a clause that makes enemies hard to drag by venti. Its borderline saying "Venti's kit is disabled in this floor", which could cripple any character if mihoyo wanted to

[@0li-0li28]

Lisa should go to good but niche - Burst support/def shred for physical superconduct teams - Solid on field Driver for taser or hyperbloom - High Electro application - EM scaling for easy aggravate/hyperbloom dmg she just has so much more uses and strengths than the people you’ve placed her with Edit: and build wise you can either hyper invest in her as DPS or slap ER/EM and a supp catalyst on her and watch her go to town with elemental reactions

[@271epicgroup]

Hu Tao, Fischl and Xiangling my beloveds will ALWAYS be winning

[@wamuu3543]

Anemo MC is actually really good. Anemo because of VV is incredibly broken, and his C6 increases that Shred even more. Other than that, their grouping is really solid, their burst only costs 60, and their c2 increases their ER. Anemo mc is an overall great character. However; the existance of Sucrose, Kazuha and Venti raised the bar for anemo support so much that if future characters aren't just a straight upgrades to them, they will be worse in almost all situations. This is also the case for Heizou, who is a great character, but everyone else is just basically better. The only reason you would actually play them if you need Sucrose on the second side of abyss and you're Kazuhaless. My point is, AMC was not "never good", but benched since the beginning.

[@danish2.012]

Anemo MC should be better than Geo MC bcs geo has its downside as the element and the geo construct can be very annoying to deal with.

[@ZanathKariashi]

@@danish2.012 you use Geo MC for his burst and never bother with his skill except for puzzles. (or if you need an on-fielder for the team you can also spam his normals as the 5th hit causes a fairly damaging aoe rock-collapse attack). I REALLY wish they'd either A. Tap skill doesn't summon constructs, or B. Charge Attack will instantly blow them all up once you have the appropriate Con to enable construct explosions (similar to Keqing's Stelleto explosion).

[@saikotakeshi]

In my opinion Lisa is like in the "Good but extremely niche" its because of the defence reduction on his passive 2 and she has a quite a few team comps(like Aggravate or Eula Team) if they don't have Yae Miko or Raiden Shogun That is my opinion because I use her before and she is a solid character

[@quacktionary]

everything's quite accurate except for lisa's placement, she should probably be in good but niche lol, her aggravate teams arent bad

[@VrtielA6300]

But I don't seeing anyone else talk about Keqing either

[@mozzy2968]

From my personal experience, Diluc has never felt bad to play in abyss, I've never really struggled on him more than my other characters. On the other side my Hu Tao has always felt weaker than my Diluc. It could be because I dont want to pull for her cons because she is a main dps and I don't like pulling for main dps cons, whereas my Diluc is c4, but even when they have similar artifact quality my Diluc clears floors faster.

[@Someone-zn4dh]

Mono Pyro is ridiculously good now, the fact on my Klee Melt team which I used in V.1-2 can only finish abyss until floor 10. This version, with the same build but me just slapping Xiangling, Bennet, and Kazuha instead, I manage to bring her all up to Floor 12 👁️👁️

[@RubberDucky152]

Aloy came out in Version 2.1 xD, aside from that good video, can mostly agree with the list too, I'd move Diluc, Jean and Lisa to niche, cause you can still use them and make them work as alternatives for those who don't have any other Pyro dps (like myself), a second healer or for a low investment aggravate/hyper-bloom team

[@pointlessfeather5830]

Thank you so much for putting Venti in God Carry. He's always been crazy good, and just because abyss doesn't have as many light enemies anymore doesn't mean that he doesn't still dumpster all overworld and domain content

[@Ocelotfurry]

Main thing about yelan is that she's easy to build she don't need CR/CD that much just stack hp% and hyd dmg as much as u want then you'll be set... FYI i use funerational team and that team is pretty much badass in everything

[@sernolstic4981]

definitely missing the mark with Lisa here dude. She is the single fastest electro trigger for aggravate in the game and thus the best unit to abuse Fischl's A4 Passive talent. This makes her an insanely strong carry in aggravate and can preform decently in hyperbloom if you don't have kuki or raiden.

[@anonymousanonymous6045]

Mona & Jean are criminally underrated they carried me the beginning of the game they deserved to be ranked higher but atleast you acknowledged how underrated Beidou is

[@jonathanrobinson198]

I’d argue considering Sucrose took awhile to be on a banner and the other Anemos were 5 stars, Anemo traveler goes to at least bench because they were good for what we had to do.

[@sleepyheartss]

I literally didnt get a single anemo character until Kazuha banner so yes I agree

[@Mr_AntiSocial]

@@sleepyheartssBRO SAME

[@pepita2437]

Idk about Childe, we see International Childe a lots of time in Abyss team usage charts.

[@EinSilverRose]

Kinda crazy just how uninspired Genshin Impact players and content creators are when it comes to old or supposedly underwhelming characters. I've seen one person use Diluc in a Nahida, Barbara and Layla team to Burgeon, Vape AND Burn with great results. Diluc is still good. As are Jean, Lisa, Kaeya and Chongyun just for an example. Anemo Traveler may be niche and their Burst is genuinely awful but their ability to suck up Dendro cores and CC small enemies let them hyper focus Hyperbloom damage and Swirl to great effect in general. Just don't use them with Burning anywhere unless you want them to instantly get deleted. Geo Traveler still being this undervalued is absolutely insane to me. Their skill has great damage on top of generating Geo particles. Their burst also deals solid damage on top of the passive +10% Crit Chance. You can slot them in Mono Geo and they'll do their job just fine. Mona is still definitely very powerful. People forget her dash applies Hydro which is capable of Vaping and generating Dendro cores to Burgeon on top of her skill and Burst still being good. She works very well with Xinyan's shield pulse. Kokomi is NOT a straight up replacement for Barbara. This is just an extremely narrow way of seeing these characters. Barbara applies CONSTANT Wet status with her skill. Kokomi only applies once per jellyfish pulse. They each have their own use. Main difference is having to be near the enemies with Barbara which is something the aforementioned Diluc team wants to do. Honestly the only characters on this list that I'd consider underwhelming or simply not worth investing in is Qiqi and even then Qiqi's healing is still a solid positive as much as people say healing isn't a good thing in Genshin. Her lack of energy generation is her biggest downside. And yes even Aloy can be solid Burst DPS like Chongyun while Chongyun has his Burst DPS role plus his cooldown reduction support. And yes even Amber can be strong. It does require her constellations but she can be strong. Chasing the meta is fun and all but if all it does is make people look down on the non-meta characters then where is the fun? Trying out new or underutilized set ups is also part of what makes these kinds of games great.

[@AidanSeanMor]

Me watching this tier list as i am building Jean for Furina. 😂 how the times change

[@Msaber2012]

This needs to be updated Post Furina and we need a ver 2 plz :)

[@Trauson]

Imagine Just nailing it so hard in version 1 that still most of those characters are in the top meta.

[@ducky4430]

justice for razor!! he is still pretty fun to play as a main in early game, and sure, he's not played as he originally was and he has his one viable niche only, but thundering furry is a pretty strong and easy to build team of only 4* characters, actually a great accessible choice for new players imo :D

[@mavrikthescaler5983]

with jean being really good for furina maybe she would be in niche now

[@wickanchaos7781]

watching these videos are so interesting to me how you make it sound like characters are so make and break or must use, i still to this day just use Geo. But i am also not the 'average' player i guess since i dont really need to follow this dendro meta since all my geo characters are C6 and just power through anything.

[@6235river]

Ningguang should be in the "good but extremely niche" category tf? She's literally bis for the Golden Wolflord, making her the definition of a niche pick.

[@komgoo4974]

Vars you should do a power creep video regarding how it’s been going in the opposite way. Sumeru we didn’t get a single top tier unit but nahida. Fontaine characters are niche and require a lot of investments. Edit: Nilou is niche that’s why I find it hard to count her as top tier. She as well needs a lot of investment because putting her in a team with Barbara, Collei, and traveler is much worse than with the 5 stars. Also Alhaitham is just a dps he doesn’t really bring anything out to the table that’s why I also don’t consider him top tier like Nahida.

[@Agthal_2]

nilou is god tier sumeru unit as well but your right power creep has really slowed down in sumeru and fontaine

[@isolationking2670]

@komogoo4974 what about alhaitham, God tier DPS in hyperbloom and aggravate comps

[@JoJoZaka]

nilou, alhaitham, c6 faruzan and scaramouche all fuck hard

[@someonlineidiot3595]

Alhaitham

[@aryawiraraja8041]

And its the opposite in star rail, every update they release another broken unit after broken unit

[@nat-fs3ms]

this mostly tracks for me, id say ningguang was more benched than never good. she was my carry for early game f12 spiral abyss, and she did her job well enough pre inazuma. what benched her was geo moving into def scaling characters which she ostensibly is not. i would also place venti down into pretty good simply because his application as a grouper has little use in floors 11-12 usually, since hoyo has been in the habit of placing heavy/boss level enemies in there that are immune to getting sucked inside of his burst. but yes, when venti does work, hes godly.

[@razergarcia6323]

Ever since the introduction of MORGANA, it has never been absent in my abyss run until now. Ganyu, Mona, Venti, and Rosaria permafreeze all the way. Also the national team which is a no-brainer and raiden hyperbloom

[@anyaaa2801]

I agree with this "tier" by 70%. It's mostly agreeable but not really. Like for ex, if Barbara can fall into the "good but niche" category then Yanfei should follow. And I'd say Qiqi was "never good to begin with". Everyone agrees on that.

[@boshlovely2002]

Everyone loved Qiqi tho? in the early days her healing was a blessing and saved most of us it was only after time went on and we realized she had major energy issues and that she provided nothing but energy in a game that was more of a dps check but she was a wanted and loved unit for a bit in the beginning

[@yofukashidayo]

Lisa would fit in too. She has a good niche as eula nuke team or haitham spread (48% atk ttds, 20% atk noblesse, or 120 em instructor very valuable 15% defense shred)

[@flamingjockeys]

Barbara is more or less your only choice if you do not own Kokomi but want to play Nilou bloom, a VERY good comp. Yanfei is a technically functional shielder with several better alternatives, even among 4 stars like Diona, Thoma, or even Noelle. All of those provide utility outside of their shield. You'd never choose Yanfei over them unless you just really want to use Yanfei.

[@endieloe8972]

Tbh, Barbara is still used for her original purpose. She is still being used as a budget Hydro healer, who is more valuable in Nilou teams more than anywhere else. It's not like Razor and Tankfei whose relevance is entirely based unintentional mechanics.

[@davidkunakovsky3155]

Qiqi always was good and she is better healer than Kokomi. Period

[@josef-1209]

Aint no way this dude put Lisa in the same tier as Amber & Anemo MC 💀 Lisa's great bro; she's electro, deals a lot of damage, has a pretty good debuff, and can provide good buffs with artifacts and weapons (especially cuz she's a catalyst user). Not to mention, C4 Lisa is arguably the best unit for Hyperbloom.

[@joshuabarnes7392]

I now cannot unsee vars manly biceps. It is still so difficult to put the voice ive been listening to for years with the MASSIVE GUNS exhibited in all its glory.

[@zgrat]

I think you need to add another category, the "Can be good but with high investment". Lisa and Noelle become much more viable at C6. Pair them with the right equipment and teammates and they can put out some pretty good numbers. Will they ever be meta? Probably not and most people won't want to take the time to invest in some of these characters but for those who do like them players can be rewarded with a really fun experience.

[@stathisconstantinou]

Every character can be good with high investment. This tier list looks at how good char are with reasonable investment. Like less than two percent of players have a c6 noelle or c6 Lisa

[@Dubstep_Gun]

Those are in "benched" category

[@annabethsmith29303]

i loveeee mona she’s great with my hu tao and ayaka, and i haven’t tried this yet but looks like people are using her with neuvillette too 💁🏻‍♀️ (also the obvious damage showcase thing lol)

[@Unwebonnn]

Personally, I think Lisa is in the same spot as kaeya, decent DPS and can shred defense which is a useful passive as well as electro spam.

[@kaiipop4762]

Diluc, Kaeya and Mona are still some of my most used units as I really like their designs and kit

[@CritsVG]

I'd argue Kaeya is still among the best Cryo units with C2+, his Burst is so damn good

[@atriyakoller136]

Same. I use Kaeya as either a freeze sub-DPS + battery for Ayaka, or melt + pyro infused on floor 12 instead of the regular mono pyro (fpr this specific cycle with coppellius as the boss in 12-3-2). All the versions slap pretty well. Diluc is a character I like a lot and Mona is someone whose story I find quite nice, but don't really like to play her much and not a huge fan of her design

[@atriyakoller136]

@@CritsVG yeah, like I typically spend starglitter, but Kaeya and Xingqiu are the only characters I spent it on (got Kaeya's C2 and Xingqiu's C6 this June and September). Been a Kaeya main since I started playing, had him triple crowned and lvl 90, but was blown away by his C2

[@kaiipop4762]

@@CritsVG frfrr I luckily have c2 Kaeya and love using him in freeze teams with Kazuha, Mona/Yelan and Kokomi

[@CritsVG]

@@atriyakoller136 Can't wait to get his C6 when he returns to the shop 👏

[@TJF588]

Chongyun was, if I recall, my damage-dealer back before I got any event or standard five-stars (and the first of those was...Kazuha), he was the first two characters I got off Standard Banner...and those are the only two of him I've had since 2.8! Feels bad to not get at least his C2. Conversely, the only four five-star characters I've got from Standard Banner is my _C3_ Diluc; I was so excited to get his C2, since I'd built up the original Battle Pass claymore to R5 and I run Zhongli in fourth slot aaall the time, the "get hit and avoid damage" chicanery was a while coming. Maybe one day, popsicle boy can get his own C2.

[@ryzhik9608]

Chongyun will be featured on the next banner phase, so don't miss your chance!

[@justsomeguywithahandlebarm2456]

Imma be honest while lisa was never good before dendro she was still ok enough to work well in f2p taser teams But post dendro Shes just an aggravate monster for her class as she out dpses cyni and yae (which is still pretty mid but a solid spot nonetheless). She also can enable hob prtty well because of her burst snapshotting en buffs

[@Aven_lover]

My level 90 kaeya and Amber with 40k damage : we are supposed to be trash?? Kaeya works so well with shinobu, heizou and xiangling

[@camillecutler6868]

Rosaria also has a crit rate buff of up to 25%, so with cryo resonance and blizzard strayer you can get 80% CRIT rate for free, allowing you to completely invest in crit dmg.

[@danish2.012]

Basically 4 star ayaka

[@blastzd]

15% crit rate buff*

[@knection1986]

I love how you labeled Jean benched but then gave an example where she is niche

[@hood7480]

Love seeing Childe get the respect he deserves

[@sentryion3106]

I think he doesn’t get enough respect. International is still one of if not the best team in the game even among all the new dendro stuff.

[@JohehJeho]

Im quite surprised alot of these characters are version 1 character. I didnt realize how many Good characters are still usable up until now

[@Saphie688]

Yanfei burgeon is actually good and I find situations where she's better then klee because she's more mobile especially that one abyss where u needed a lot of applications if elements what I found was Klee had a harder time dealing with the abyss harelds ice and water because every attack I used could be dodged was short ranged and had long animation time where yanfei dealt less dps but I could more easily do pyro application and actually deal dmg to the enemy

[@Purplorr]

i'm glad you're not sleeping on sucrose, you can't go wrong with building her, she does everything. main dps support mobbing single target dps meaningful constellations and streamlined kit her attack animations are fast and you can cancel out of her skill, god tier character and contender for best unit in the game as far as i'm concerned.

[@mika086]

I use Mona❤ in double hydro with yelan, john and hu tao. I feel like the damage buff i get, even if only for 2 chargeds and the burst (total of like 450 hu tao dmg) way outweights anything xingqiu could ever do. (I'll admit my xq is trash, but I can't see any reason to build him besides yelan replacement for Ei, but he's top tier there even with his 2k sword dmg 😂)

[@blastzd]

xingqius dps, support, and hydro app, are significantly better for hu tao than monas dmg buff, shes an okay 4th slot, but never the best

[@mika086]

@@blastzd for the combo I use, he isn't really an improvement. 2-3 normals then charged. I get like 5-6 chargeds out of it and I can use stamina to cancel (hu tao not c1). Moreover I never miss a vape on charged with this combo, and it makes it easy to trigger burst vape.

[@mika086]

@@blastzd oh, and even a 4k dps xingqiu would do nothing against the buff i get from mona for Hu Tao, which makes her 70k go 110k and 180k burst go to 260k.

[@edgarortiz7624]

Jean has to move up on the tier list after furina 😂

[@jonathanrobinson198]

Let me preference this with I mean no disrespect. Okay I feel like my main disagreement with how certain characters are portrayed stems from the lack of consideration in what roles they can fill in favor of comparing them to current trends and top teams. For example, you saying a cryo character is lower now because dendro teams are in play. That doesn’t make the cryo teams that existed any less good. People just have more options. Especially when those characters would be chosen quicker than picking Beidou for a dendro team. Personally I’ve seen Lisa and Razor get showcased more than her for those comps I disagree with the take on no reason to really have an Anemo healer when the two characters capable of this can provide VV shred and other buffs to fill team requirements in unique ways while still providing dmg. Your use of the word niche bounces a bit when you put Venti up top for the one major thing he’s good at but then put Xiao and Eula in the actual niche category despite them being able to clear a wider array of situations with ease in comparison to Venti. Lastly, you bench Yanfei strictly based on Pyros who can hit a higher number despite those pyros relying on similar supports while still having drawbacks Yanfei doesn’t lack; like having permanent uptime on pyro, shielding herself, and a decent size of varying reaction teams in comparison to Hu Tao or Yoimiya. And that’s not to discredit the other pyro characters but it feels a little disingenuous to not mention there are problems Yanfei generally doesn’t have in comparison to other units.

[@talesofsleep]

Was literally thinking how good version 1 character are to this day till this pops up LOL

[@TheAwesomePal]

I’d very much argue for Ningguang to be in benched. Her damage always surpassed razors and it wasn’t just a gimmick. I’d also say xiao should be moved up a tier. His plunge attack dps isn’t just a gimmick it’s how he does damage it doesn’t fundamentally change anything about how the damage is being dealt like nilou for example. It’s like saying ganyu is a gimmick cause she does charge attacks

[@blastzd]

u clearly didnt see razors thundering furry team with dendro lol

[@axisboise]

@@blastzd Yeah and that's thanks to Dendro not because of Razor, ever since the introduction of dendro electro characters are buffed while geo are continually nonexistence in the game. But not one did razor surpassed Ningguang's dmg until dendro arrived.

[@blastzd]

@@axisboise he did with dendro and thats just a fact. who cares what was before

[@axisboise]

@@blastzd 😂 Who cares before - because that's exactly what the post is about lmao. Are the older characters holding up? So yes you should care about how they perform before versus how they perform now lmao.

[@blastzd]

@@axisboise no, this is just a tierlist for the version 1 characters for todays meta.

[@aleeketch]

honestly, I'm content with Kaeya's placement. I used him in the latest abyss(yes, the new fontaine boss with huge cryo resistance) and I was able to 36 star with ease

[@taiy0o802]

I really hope for Arlecchino to be the 5* version of Xiangling

[@alexandruandros1271]

If the Harbringer trends are anything to go by, she'll probably be a Main DPS, I'd expect the pyro archon to be the 5* Bennett/Xiangling

[@taiy0o802]

@@alexandruandros1271 bro this game really needs off pyro dps .. there's literally no one expect Xiangling!

[@taiy0o802]

except* lol

[@alexandruandros1271]

@@taiy0o802 wdym nobody except Xiangling, there is Dehya :) And again, the Pyro Archon will almost guaranteed be an off-field pyro DPS, if we judge by the Archon trends of them being more splashable characters

[@taiy0o802]

@@alexandruandros1271 for sure but dehya can't be considered as dps

[@allentayoto7387]

I'd actually say Lisa could be in Benched category instead. Dendro made her useful again and since she's an F2P unit that you get from the start she was actually really useful during the start of Dendro meta for new players. Only thing is, there were already a number of electro units that's a lot better. Still, she did get to be a good unit during Dendro meta.

[@HiMyNameIsAkmal]

Lisa is better than that you can use her for extra damage to your main dps

[@anyanP]

Puts Kaeya and Rosaria in “niche”, despite their better synergy with Ayaka (better batteries) and less cringe melt teams, but puts Diona (who’s best role is being battery for freeze where her sustain is less relevant) and Ganyu (who’s melt teams are pain to play, and freeze teams being significantly worse than Ayaka’s unless you’re against Ventiable content which happens less and less) in “still pretty good”. Puts Venti in “god carry” despite him being extremely niche as he is significantly worse that both Kazuha and Sucrose against heavy enemies. Puts Razor in “benched” despite his overburgeon team being one of the strongest burgeon teams against heavy enemies. And his kit is PERFECT for this. Puts Lisa in “never good” despite her becoming a competent driver for Fischl in aggravate and an okay hyperbloom unit

[@aries-zn6xe]

okey i was good with everything, even tho i think jean for being an anemo suport sould beat least one tier higher but it was good.... but lisa in "never good" she is realley good for physical team, some taser but now that we have aggravete and hyperbloom she is honestly really good, hyperbloom or aggravete + her def sherd.... she is better than kaeya at least, is not god tier but she works really good with dendro and other electro characther.... everyone talks about kaeya and forget miss lisa.... (and rosaria is also better than kaeya unless you don't want to stay in one place and want to move around, but there best use case is permaforst so...) all the other i think the same, i love u ninguang but geo is just not good...

[@finebook281]

I think this would better be presented on a two axis tier list, with improved vs worse on one axis and good vs bad on the other axis. For example, Bennett is WORSE than he was in version 1 since there are so many more teams who don't care about him, but he's still an amazing character. Meanwhile, Noelle is better than she was in version 1 since Gorou gave her a strong team, but she's still not that great.

[@MoinsensKai]

I think theres a "became strong" tier missing. Barbara and Lisa would be in this. Also, some adjustment I would make: Hutao and Venti 1 lower - Klee 1 lower - Noelle and Chongyun 1 up - Diluc and Jean 2 up. Explaination: Hutao is not AS strong as she was i think and we´ve gotten many enemies that Venti cant group - Klee is super clunky - Noelle in MonoGeo and Chongyun in Freeze as SubDPS or even just battery are still good - Diluc and Jean are both still super viable and strong, with Jean even being a super good option for heal in aggrevate teams. Any comments?

[@MoinsensKai]

Oh and also, why is Ningguang in "They were never good" if she was basicly a strong DPS back in 1.0 till like 1.3 ?

[@NastyAlbatross]

​@@MoinsensKaiShe is still strong.

[@tomekpiatek88]

I think Lisa is underrated here. With aggrivate she can do decent damage, at least on par with Yanfei, if not more.

[@Morrimachi]

Do not underestimate HYPERBLOOM LISA!

[@MSSProductions1]

I do think anemo traveller was very good in the beginning. i found myself scared of fighting hilichurls (don't laugh), so it was SUPER comfy that they would be blown away from me so I wouldn't get hit. best case scenario they would also die from the burst

[@RiceJackalope]

Anemo traveller is good. It is so low on the list simply because sucrose venti kazuha exist and they are broken.

[@matthewdevey8878]

Furina makes jean a lot better

[@page-no1zc]

I'd personally put Yanfei in good but niche tier, as she does deal quite decent damage with Bennett and Xingqiu/Yelan to support her. She's kind of like a worse Yoimiya but that still makes her pretty good, I'd say. She also works quite well with some burgeon comps, especially since she's a catalyst who has access to sac frags and A Thousand Floating Dreams. I'd also move Lisa up a tier, as she did get an upgrade from dendro and does workable damage with her burst because of this. With another electro unit as her ally, she shouldn't have much problem getting her burst up on time.

[@devam8192]

Sucrose being the least used of power 5 is understandable considering how bad it feels to play her as support(her driver playstyle is fun). Her grouping SUCKS(or doesnt suck in this context) her E has very small AoE grouping and the burst despite having big AoE barely pulls enemies. And since both E and Q aims the closest enemy she randomly rotates 180° and aims at wall where there is one enemy. And she used long a$$ time when using her E and just stands there, enough time for a beast to kill her off. She may provide more buffs than Kazuha but she brings way more cons than pros in actual gameplay compared to him.

[@MrcreeperDXD777]

I wish we could control where her Hypostasis goes. Its frustrating when it targets a single enemy instead of the whole lot

[@swordmaster4448]

c6 kaeya is God carry because his burst deal consistent cyro aplication. alot people didnt know that hutao deal more dmg with melt with c6 kaeya, specially for Diluc

[@BlogDoidoWorld]

The "They're never good" level could be called "I've never been a good player" and "bench" to "I got new characters"

[@axisboise]

lisa and ningguang in never good is just fucking hilarious

[@Sukiato]

I'd love to see a 2.0 patch list! Sharing my hot take, Anemo Traveler is a pretty okay anemo support. If you have his cons his burst will reduce the enemies anemo res by 20% I use him a lot with Xiao! Though he gets benched the moment we get to floor 12 lmao

[@blastzd]

anemo traveler is alr, but sucrose, kazuha and venti are just SIGNIFICANTLY better

[@TsarBomba69420]

Bro said Traveler was never good😂 Who got you through the first 10 minutes of the game!