Are Version 2 Characters Still Good? | Genshin Impact

[@VarsII]

So regarding my Yun Jin evaluation I zeroed in on her attack speed boosting aspect without giving enough credit to her attack damage boost via her ultimate and I should've at least mentioned that part too. But I stand by the opinion that at the present moment she's just outclassed by a number of other damage augmenting supports with better universal application that even within her own niche there are plenty of other choices you would want to pick before you arrive at her. She definitely has potential to return to form if we have other hp/def scaling normal attackers like @yeguang7095 said but compared to where she was when she first came out to where she is now, like I said in the video: instead of enhancing normal attack damage/speed there are supports who can either just boost total damage (not just for one person but for the entire party) or they themselves can bring the damage. Technically speaking Yun Jin is niche, but pragmatically speaking her niche is extremely overrideable. She would need to provide offensive bonuses on the level of Shenhe to make players want to consider fielding her when they can field more damage, as opposed to Shenhe where her cryo enhancement is SO big and all encompassing (covers attacks, skills, bursts, etc.) that there's veritable reason to use her over Bennett/Xingqiu/Kazuha/Yelan/Shogun/etc. in regards to supporting. For teams where you could field Yun Jin such as boosting Yoimiya or Ayato damage, you could replace her with anyone else. Point being she does have a niche but doesn't do it good enough, which is why I consider her benched.

[@justsomeguywithahandlebarm2456]

I would also like to add that atk speed isnt as bad of a stat as it may seem because its a multiplier that applied at the very end of your dmg calculation which makes it more valuable than atk%(sometimes)(something like resistance shred but not per hit and instead over time) its not that good but its noticable because for na characters youll find that being able to fit in a few more hits into your combo increases your dps It mainly hasnt gotten the time of day like dmg% or other per hit stats but for characters that can make use of it it's pretty good

[@SeravySensei]

I never understood the Shenhe hype, she gives the same damage buff for 6 attacks so those being any attack type results in overall less damage than Yunjin anyway, unless you run additional Cryo units beyond your hypercarry to trigger the buff on all those units. The real problem with Yunjin is that most top tier carries don't work with her, only the "okay" category does, like Yoimiya, Ayato, Wanderer, etc. If Raiden's attacks were considered normal attack damage, Kokomi could Crit, etc, she'd be much better.

[@momslayer456]

​@@SeravySensei ?

[@stevenyohanes1212]

i mean after arguing she is replaceable and almost put yae in god carry while she is also very replaceable (fischl for dmg/kuki for hyperbloom) is a little wut while yun jin offers more unique support

[@Lewbas]

I think attack speed boosts could be a creative way of powering through ICD. Alternatively ICD could just be reworked or, dare I say, removed entirely... Or maybe at the very least have the game officially address it.

[@yegaung7095]

I would argue that Yun Jin belongs in niche since her Normal Attack bonus damage is comparable to Bennett’s Atk buff. She would be even better if future characters have normal attacks that purely scales of Hp and Def; being a dmg support means she’s always going to get better over time.

[@Enric.]

but Bennett buffs the entire party, their normals, their skills and their bursts. Yunjin only buffs the normal attack, and you won't play a team with just Yunjin and a normal attack And thats besides Bennett being a healer which makes him infinitely superior to Yunjin

[@Superflaming85]

While I do think judging characters on their future potential is a little too vague, I still agree that Yun Jin belongs in niche, mostly because we've seen how things have been developing in Sumeru and Fontaine. Sumeru did give us a non-reaction focused DPS than can do a lot of NAs (Wanderer), and Fontaine so far has had a lot of fun with HP scaling characters, NA-centric characters, and non-reaction focused characters. Having an element-unreliant niche also means that she doesn't fall into the trap that Gorou did; If your element and/or archetype doesn't get anything new, your performance doesn't change (and possibly even gets worse). It's incredibly unlikely we go an entire region without getting an NA-centric character, while we've already gone one region without getting a 5* Cryo character and any Geo character. (And the only Pyro char is Dehya) Heck, the only new Electro DPS hates Sara with a burning passion.

[@iAmPrice]

same she works with normal attack units like wanderer very well too

[@yegaung7095]

@@Enric.True, and snapshotting truly makes or breaks certain characters *side glances at Xiangling*

[@rostschweifvomchaosclan]

I would honestly argue that she never been good, coming from a Yoi main who lvld and used her ones. She got released after Bennet who does the same in terms of dmg buffing, but with healing and she got released after Fischl and Xingqui who also increase my Yoimiyas attack dmg with their off field capability, probably a lot better. She's just is and always been so replaceable

[@haikalgakbar]

Sayu powercreep everyone in exploration tho. She heals, giving anemo resonance, makes crystalflies easier to catch, mining ores, and going from point A to B so much faster all in one package

[@honeybeeami2654]

Honestly, decided to give her a shot and I was surprised that she’s as useful as she is

[@Benrir.]

Yelan & Wanderer powercreep sayu

[@Randomguy-fi5bt]

​@@Benrir.Yelan works well with sayu.i have c1 yelan and I still use sayu. C1 yelan and sayu fit really well with eachother since their skill cooldowns align pretty well with eachother

[@Palcii]

@@Randomguy-fi5bt With C1 Yelan you never run out of stamina, there is no point to slot in Sayu.

[@Randomguy-fi5bt]

@@Palcii sayu is still faster than sprinting (i think? haven't played the game in a couple months)

[@ayag.8306]

Yun Jin’s primary role is buffing normal attacks, I think you’re mixing her up with Mika. She gets the attack speed buffing at I think around c4 or c6

[@eevye]

Yea idk how they got that wrong

[@cyansy]

Yea the attack speed buff is just a bonus from c6, it’s nowhere near her main role. I think he doesn’t even look at the character for these and just goes off memory. Love ya Vars but come on at least glance at the wiki

[@BigRheno]

She buffs speed and damage

[@YourMomsAltAccount]

@@BigRheno At C6 she buffs speed, otherwise she does not.

[@gargoyle2423]

Yun Jin is a staple on my rainbow Yoimiya team for her NA bonus

[@MarcAlcatraz]

Yoimiya should’ve been given the normal attack ability like Itto and “Wriothsley”(idk how to spell it) where you can still complete your attack combo after you dodge

[@MultiDragonreaper]

Even Nilou has this for her elemental skill, and she is a support character.

[@madmaxim3965]

Honestly should just be basekit for every character it's not like normal atks don't need the help

[@itz_moonwolf1480]

Yelan is hands down one of the most insane characters to this day. She’s so insanely overpowered

[@usmanya5110]

and i wonder if furina will beat her in teams that requires less hydro app, like she has a bigger but riskier buff but less application.

[@jeffulloa218]

And not only that, so damn comfy even at C0. She's one of the best designed characters in the game.

[@usmanya5110]

​@@jeffulloa218 oh man she's so comfy and having a 2nd xingqiu is like a godsend.

[@itz_moonwolf1480]

@@usmanya5110ye, I’m also quite curious about that. Haven’t looked at leaks much, but my big hope for furina is that she takes a different niche from kokomi and yelan. Like, somewhere in between

[@itz_moonwolf1480]

@@jeffulloa218mhm. Also her early constellations r rlly good. I was vry lucky to get c1 and c2, and imo they’re not needed but they’re so good

[@Truck-kun11]

I can't wait for "Why everyone uses Furina" in a few weeks

[@khadizaanwarjolly5779]

Legitimately the only archon with an actual "personality"

[@TheNrat]

@@khadizaanwarjolly5779 venti mains in shambles

[@Marta1Buck]

​@@TheNratdrunkard and depressed don't count

[@therranolleo468]

@@khadizaanwarjolly5779 probs cause the other Archons feels one noted with their emotions, with the exception of Nahida, who went through hell and back during her Archon quest Venti is just a drunk bard even when his city is under attack, steps in to help a bit, laughs a little, sneeze to cat, and leave Zhongli is very much the definition of stone hard, he spews out either lore or wise shits and that's that and Ei is played as a purely ignorant NEET just learning of the outside world after 500 years OR a literal war-machine with a rigid ruleset that is the Shogun probably its because these characters are already so old they're just used to whatever things the world throw at them, they're probably a lot more expressive during the early days of the Archon wars. Furina is still an unknown case cause we don't know the circumstances of her character yet.

[@junyaiwase]

@@khadizaanwarjolly5779nahida?

[@minthantmaung8643]

Yin Jin’s main aspect of her kit is normal attack damage buff not normal attack speed that’s just her c6, I believe she should be in niche cus I can see how she would be more relevant as more normal attackers come out

[@banheesos]

right, and to think yunjin is a key unit to use with Ayato & Yoimiya both uses NA as main source of dmg in of itself should classify her as a niche. This is the most lazily put together video I've seen of this KZbinr.

[@Yuruo]

Saying mono geo is rendered obsolete makes it pretty clear you don't use it, "rendered obsolete" is implying it isnt even usable. i have C2 itto and he pretty much matches most of my teams dps and clears abyss with zero issue 2 years later.

[@midnightmidnight532]

Heizou vs Wanderer/Xiao would've been a better comparison from the beginning because of his role instead of comparing him with Sucrose and Kazuha.

[@zekkekeipa6521]

The thing is - he can do both roles. Feels kinda bias to give others points for flexibility, but not to him.

[@fashlimakarim6757]

Nah it's even worse if you compare him to Wanderer and Xiao, at least heizou could give you EM

[@mustangroy5012]

I think just considering a simple fact that anemo options which are easily accessible to the majority of the playerbase outside of the limited 5 star category immediately showcases why Heizou is probably the best option. He's not Kazuha/Venti/Sucrose but those are literally the best anemo characters in the game. Add to that fact that he's a 4 star, he's the only reliable driver after Sucrose when you don't have the 5 star options.

[@mylittledota4653]

Wanderer is still better at driving than Heizou. And does more damage. The sole reason to pick Heizou over any other driver is the playstyle. No. Not even that. His animations. It looks freakin cool, but that's it.

[@YayaFeiLong]

@@mylittledota4653 "Wanderer does more damage" yeah, because Heizou is a _four-star._ How is that a remotely valid argument??

[@daveya3533]

With the predicted release of Navia in 4.3 and a supposed other 5-star geo character, I do hope they'll improve and utilize things like crystallization and stat buffs. With the 4-star HP claymore on banners, I wonder whether or not Navia or a future hydro claymore would be able to use its HP and EM benefits.

[@ghotifish1838]

I don't really see how navia alone is supposed to improve anything. If at all navia will be a nice character to use individually but she's obviously not gonna change fundamentally the clunky aspects of geo, unlike how all electro units could more or less benefit from the introduction of dendro

[@anyaaa2801]

Itto despite being a strong damage dealer didn’t lift geo off the ground or didn’t save geo by any means. Raiden didn’t save electro from the ground. It was DENDRO a new element who made electro relevant again. What I’m trying to say is that Navia will not “save” geo regardless of what she does. She will only lift herself off the ground.

[@anyaaa2801]

@@ghotifish1838Right.

[@Tfbrave]

The leaks so far about Navia show that she boosts her damage by absorbing crystallize shards- a sub DPS at lower constellations and a main DPS at higher constellations

[@Saberdud]

watch navia be on standard and no changes made to the geo element

[@ginger2114]

Not a bad tierlist, but I dont agree with your reasoning for Heizou, the existence of better characters doesnt make characters out right bad. Heizou is still very much usable and capable unit.

[@ayy-din]

I think the problem with this argument is that in these games you have to directly compare units to each other. If they fall short compared to everyone else, they are objectively “bad”.

[@LongDeadArtist]

@@ayy-din great point, I won't contribute to the discussion though

[@ayy-din]

@@LongDeadArtist lmao fair enough

[@kazekori9593]

Another problem with this argument is that content like the abyss is balanced to the better units so as power level goes up content difficulty goes up and heizou is left behind, even though his power level has not changed.

[@popabogdan]

I agree, he did judge him quite harshly, considering that Raiden suffers from the same issue, not actually being the BiS for any of the teams, but she was still evaluated as God carry for versatility

[@superherounivers4223]

I'd honestly argue that heizou was a bit unfairly placed because he was never meant to support, and yet you compared him to three supports , it's understandable to compare him to wanderer and xiao cuz all three of them are DPS units and if you'd just compared him to them from the start it would make more sense for him to not be the best , but comparing a dps to supports and then saying he was never good cuz he doesn't support as well isn't really fair imo .

[@Oly876]

Him as a dps is laughable anyways😂

[@bas7489]

Compare him with Xiao or Wanderer still dont fair tho. He is a 4* DPS a role of 4* that can't be good anyways. Most of them is playable but cant be a good unit if use the same logic that Vars use to Heizou.

[@superherounivers4223]

@@bas7489 well yeah but my main point was that comparing him to xiao or wanderer would be more fair cuz they fill the same role that he does and is atleast some grounds to criticise him, however comparing a DPS like heizou to a support like sucrose when they don't have the same role and then saying he's not good because he doesn't support as well as sucrose does just isn't fair. Because sucrose is a cc and swirl support while heizou's supposed to be a DPS

[@bas7489]

@@superherounivers4223 Yeah i agree with you with that point.

[@seid_1068]

he probably did that bcs that's the only way he could be viable (as a driver). if he compared him to the dpses (scara n xiao) he literally wouldn't stand a chance. vars comparing him to sucrose was him being generous lol

[@overpoweredsoap5906]

Putting Sara in niche and then putting Gorou in benched just seems a bit contradictory. Geo works almost exclusively of Gorou and Itto relies on him a lot to get the proper support he needs. You mention Sara not being BiS that much anymore for the very thing she's supposed to do in team comps but Gorou gets put in benched despite being very literally the best option for Geo focused teams doesn't make sense. You can argue that because of Itto's damage falling off a bit lately that Gorou doesn't have a place but that's more of an issue of his damage carry being worse than him not being able to do his job. He provides everything his teams need, it isn't him being the weak point. I think he still fills the niche he's suppose to but his carries aren't as good as they use to but still useable.

[@googlrscholar]

EXACTLY.

[@thelobotomobile]

Eh, Sara has more versatility than Gorou. Sara provides a universal atk buff (electro crit damage buff at c6) and many many characters use attack (granted, no one is using her over Bennett). Gorou buffs defense which basically only geo characters scale off of (plus xinyan). I agree Gorou should probably be in niche, but he’s in benched because basically every geo character except Zhongli (who is also slowly being phased out) is benched.

[@beaniemave]

Ah, you mentioned a point I haven't realized: "Sara not being BiS that much anymore for the very thing she's supposed to do in team comps but Gorou gets put in benched despite being very literally the best option for Geo focused teams doesn't make sense". In one hand, the tierlist could be aimed towards measuring how valuable a character is meta-wise (e.g. Gorou only being in Mono Geo teams, which is already an off-meta team, makes Gorou get seen as Non-Meta). On the other hand, the tierlist could be seen by looking at each character's offensive contribution to a team, even if that team isn't Meta-relevant (e.g. Kujou Sara doesn't contribute much to Raiden Hypercarry teams and can be reasonably replaced with other characters, while Gorou is a non-replaceable unit in Mono Geo teams). I'd also further argue that Raiden Hypercarry isn't a meta team either, which should put Kujou Sara to a lower tier than Gorou in my opinion.

[@googlrscholar]

@@thelobotomobile electro atk scalers dont even want sara in their teams. and electro is supposed to be the battery element, but she cant even battery nor utilize favonius

[@felipepoffo]

yeah, and kuki is niche too, cuz without dendro she is useless

[@nobodyimportant4503]

Sayu was almost forgotten it seems. Yun Jin definitely deserves better especially if we're looking at her with constellations, she focuses on normal atk damage increase. She's indispensable for my Yoimiya team and she works on many different teams she's a versatile yet niche unit not benched. Only Yun Jin and Candace directly boost normal attack damage. Definitely downplaying Heizou, he is one of the best elements in the game, with a small em buff and also has decent on field damage to drive teams that require normal attacks. He's a capable and decent unit for what he wants to do even if there's another who is better then him. He's a versatile unit who can be used in many teams even if he's not best, just like how characters like Ayato and Raiden can be used in a lot of teams but isn't best. I think he belongs in ok.

[@honeybeeami2654]

If anything the more normal attack characters we see the more appealing Yunjin becomes, she’s a Geo character who has a universal use, that’s priceless in her class

[@SeravySensei]

Yunjin is Shenhe for normal attacks. It's a massive flat damage buff of the same type. ASPD is just a secondary effect and C6 locked too. She should be in niche. Also Thoma should be in niche because he does not trigger his shield without spamming normal attacks.

[@Arisxgon]

Did you not read the comment he made?

[@momslayer456]

​@@Arisxgoni dont think he did 😱

[@log3ckert386]

I agree Vars said thoma is good in burgeon and then said hes also OKAY in a hu tao team (while failing to mention that he could steal vapes from hutao) and because hes good in 1 niche team and just okay in another team hes better than niche somehow? Also his analysis of yun jin and heizou was so wack, but hes biased about all the geo's and all the anemo/dendro dps's so i didnt expect him to say anything good about them

[@googlrscholar]

​​@@log3ckert386thoma is good as defensive option on hypercarries that use bennett. yoi, wanderer, even xiao with modified attack strings. thats 3 viable team archetypes (burgeon, hutao, hypercarry). edit: also, burgeon is not just one team. there are so many team compositions that use burgeon, and thoma is the bis on more than half of them

[@yaemikoshandler]

​@@log3ckert386he can be used in burnmelt with wrio so that gives him another really good niche so 🤷‍♂️

[@Opti-Miser]

Mono Geo is definitely still Okay at least. I play my Itto team every now and then just because I love playing itto and I'm always surprised how easily it clears abyss. Geo doomerism is so prevelant that I forget how strong my mono geo team actually is (it is high invested and really well optimized tho)

[@uriel9777]

Mono geo is not ok, mono geo with characters that were designed for mo o geo is ok. There's a very big difference there your mono geo team works not because of Geo, or any inherent capabilities of the Geo element. It works because the characters were made to work in that specific environment. So geo is indeed bad, despite itto and others working very well together.

[@saiprasad3584]

but the fact that as he mentioned mono geo being rendered obsolete is not true tho right becuz in the very context lynney bringing mono pyro didnt disappoint ppl...(atleast vars in this case as he sounds) so the fact that an element being bad shouldnt contribute to a character being bad like how vars just straightup put gorou and itto in benched....idk man

[@Opti-Miser]

@@saiprasad3584 Yeah people like to say geo is obsolete because it hasnt changed or improved with new additions to the game (which is a huge bummer). But it was never bad to begin with so saying it is obsolete is just silly. If Mono Geo is bad because hyperbloom exists then so is every other team archetype. People will really just believe whatever they hear when it comes to teams they dont play/build smh

[@EkkusuHayate]

Just because something is over the top doesnt mean other options are bad if you can still clear content with ease. And Itto does just that.

[@kibathefang6022]

But his tier list has still pretty good and okay tier. Obviously when you have the Mono Geo team it is still pretty good. There's no way he is benched in a sense he's not good anymore.

[@pyro226]

Of the characters you mention that compete with Heizou, only Sucrose is a 4 star. Heizou outlaces her for anemo damage as a DPS, and is on par with Ningguang for personal damage. The main reason Heizou's release was awkward was because he came so late that most players would have already heavily invested into better non-anemo 5 stars DPS, else a 4 star team that heizou wouldn't have added much to (unlike support Sucrose). Basically Heizou came too late to be useful to long-term players. It's not because he was outpaced by Venti (who was not very effective against Inazuma enemies), Xiao, or Wanderer.

[@stephaniemay5216]

True but then again he put Ningguang in "was never good" too so I feel like he just hates 4* main dps. He's ranked Ningguang, Heizou, Razor, Yanfei etc all at very low tiers.

[@nevomori]

I will say this again and again, people underestimate the versatility of Ayato, Ayato was never meant to be a hyper-carry, he is best use as the Driver/ main DPS slot for any team archetype that needs hydro, he doesn’t need to change builds around, you build him as the normal DPS with good gear and you can slap him anywhere. In my opinion he should be a higher tier over Yoimiya just for the fact that he is a hydro character.

[@Leowono]

Heizou's niche is having the best birthday art.

[@AzureDrag0n1]

Thoma is also used in other teams like Wanderer where he is even better than with Hu Tao. Thoma gives your Bennett energy and Bennett gives Thoma energy. The one advantage that Zhongli might have had with Tenacity set is eliminated because c6 Faruzan is a much better Tenacity user. In addition Zhongli resist shred is not as useful because Faruzan already shreds anemo resist a lot more. So his only purpose is a shield while Thoma provides pyro aura, pyro energy, and charge attack damage at c6. It is very minor but Thoma also lets you swirl pyro in AoE. This matters when you need to break shields.

[@brainrot8802]

idk if i agree with Heizou’s portion. I could potentially be convinced of his placement there, but the reasoning being that you can just use Sucrose feels off considering they’re entirely different and their only similarities are Anemo and Catalyst user. Sucrose, while she can do damage, is very much focused on buffing and supporting the reactions of her teammates. Heizou, on the other hand, is much more oriented to dps/skill dps. It doesn’t feel accurate to take Heizou, someone who’s usually meant to have the team built around him, and compare him to someone like Sucrose who’s entire purpose is different I don’t think he belongs in Never Good. Maybe Benched would be better bc Heizou can certainly be a good unit if you build around him like you’re supposed to, as opposed to trying to slot him into other teams as a support

[@banheesos]

yeah he compares heizou to units that main role is buffing😂 "he was never that good to begin with" yet everyone and their mother lost their minds when c0 level 40 heizou can casually deal 80k skill dmg😂

[@AllTheNamesIPickedWereTaken]

Zhongli's tenacity set and resistance shred actually overtakes pyro resonance in a Hu Tao team by a significant margin Zhongli's strength imo is that by being geo, you can slot him into any team that needs a shield and he won't interfere with that team's reactions, while additionally providing 20% atk and 20% all res shred

[@exJumple]

I would argue Ayato, because as you said, he fits perfectly in just any possible teams unlike Childe and gain buffs from any support in the game unlike Neuvilette. So if you put Kokomi in highest tier for the reason of being one of the most versatile units in the game, Ayato is the same case, but a little worse. So oblectively at least "pretty good" tier for him. If Sara is in Niche, then Junjin must be also, and as other guys said in comments, her na buff is comparable to Bennet's Q allowing you to put Benny in other party. Finally comparing dps unit Heizou with supports like Kazuha/Sucrose is just kekw

[@thebiglich]

you can always count on vars for bad takes

[@sclom5676]

I agree with your spot for Yae, but for different reasons. Sure the triple electro team exists, but it isn't great unless you are mega invested and you are using it to speedrun since the damage distribution is uniquely good for speed running. The spread team is, yes, one if the better options but if that is all she had I wouldn't think so highly of her. Instead she is best in an on-field role in an aggravate team, where that team is one of the best in the game. Its a quick swap team that takes advantage of the way Fischl's a4 interacts with aggravate consisting of Yae, Fischl, Dendro, and flex. Dendro is either Nahida, DMC, or one of the defensive options, and the flex spot is between Kazuha, Sucrose, Zhongli, and then maybe kuki or a dendro defensive option. Best damage wise is Yae, Fischl, Kazu (sucrose technically provides better damage but Kazuha has better grouping), and Nahida, switch out Kazuha for Zhongli for what is IMO the best version of the team. Thoma outside if burgeon teams is actually really good in Wanderer teams, but in vape teams he is a downgrade to Zhongli. I would argue Shenhe can escape from Niche due to being used in 3 comps, mono Cryo, Freeze, and reverse melt. The other dedicated supports, however, dont have that much variety because all they really do is hypercarry. Itto and gorou deserve a higher placement than that. Mono geo Really hasn't "fallen off" in fact it has similar damage to Yoimiya teams, and i would argue he should be higher than Yoimiya given that His team fills a niche whereas Yoimiya is effectively a worse version of hu tao except for flying enemies. Either way they should be in the same tier. Gorou deserves niche for obvious reasons. Heizhou should not be in never good, he's not intended to compete with Kazuha, hes supposed to be a on-filder for a quick swap team. His teams aren't amazing but you have to think about on-fielders differently from off-fielders, if you had to be the best in your role or don't see play then a TON off on-fielders like Yoimiya Keqing and Tighnari would be in benched or never good. Granted i don't want to put him in the same tier as Yoimiya Thoma or Ayato but that is an issue of the tier list not his issue.

[@ThatguycalledJoe]

"if we want, we also have Jean [for Anemo healing]." Even for day one accounts that's not a given. I can't say that it's my situation, but the scattershot nature of going for *anything* that isn't featured means that it's still totally realistic that someone playing from Day 1 could still not have Jean, or Mona or whoever else. You also forgot the "Aloy" tier.

[@hikari9262]

Ayato Mika Thoma is a really good team. The other one can be a dendro or another hydro. There is a dramatic difference between Ayato with atk spd buff vs Ayato with no atk spd buff.

[@Easton_Johns0n]

As an Ayaya main, I’m sad to agree with you, I wish the “Frozen” aura was there even when they can still move, that alone would make a bunch of Cryo units so much better. Also, a tip for anyone who wants to main her that I wish I knew before I picked her, she can not farm for her own artifacts. The enemies are immune/resistant to Cryo in her domain, so make sure you have some other team/characters that can farm for her. That, or just strongbox all the Shiminawa pieces that we got when we were wanting Emblem pieces (please oh please have mercy on me domain gods)

[@mybeaniebooz9601]

I'm confused as to why you're comparing heizou with sucrose? They don't remotely have the same role at all and the only similarity is that they're anemo catalysts. Sucrose is a swirl crowd control support who's most comparable to kazuha, not heizou, and heizou is a main dps. I would understand if you said heizou isn't good because we have wanderer who's also an anemo main dps catalyst, but no, for some reason you compared him to sucrose? It kind of makes it seem like you don't know what you're talking about.

[@n0_re4lreasn.0_o7]

I would tend to agree with you, except that he can be used as an on field driver. If you look at some of the videos about how to build him when he first released, most of them focused on his on field driving ability. I use him as a dps though and he always surprises me with his damage.

[@zekkekeipa6521]

They both can have roles as a drivers, Heizou can be built as dps and as driver as well, but he didnt get bonus points for flexibility in this tier list, unlike others.

[@mybeaniebooz9601]

@n0_re4lreasn.0_o7 he's clearly meant to be an on-field dps though by design. He's kind of like yanfei, where she is clearly meant to be an on field dps but you can chose to make her a support from her shield constellation. In fact i feel like heizou doesn't have much use for the same reason that yanfei does, the fact that they are 4 star dps when there are better options

[@AliffDelacoure]

he's noticeably far too opinionated in this video.

[@momslayer456]

Because him being a anemo unit indirectly compares to everyone else. Him being the only 4* anemo dps also makes him compare to wanderer or xiao which are infinitely better and there are bassically no teams where you cannot swap him out for someone with the same accessibility but give you way much more in return. Him being a anemo dps and a okay - ish dps isn't an argument when this tier list is all about how powerful a character is on the current meta and how interchangeable they are Heizou is good in nukes but his dps is really mediocre. Wanderer and xiao might have smaller numbers per attack but they make up for it for far better aoe and single target dps that completely outshines heizou's nukes I would argue that him being in "never was good" tier is kind of wrong though. Also he is pretty flexible as a driver but somehow vars didn't give him credit for that? Maybe he just forgot idk 😬

[@thechaosofcaffeine]

poor aloy was forgotten XD i was expecting her to be put in the "was never good" category but forgetting about her like mihoyo did is hilarious

[@eddiephoenix9698]

I have pulled C2 Itto and he is so much fun to play. I don´t have to worry about reactions at all and i really enjoy using him from time to time. However, he is not my "go to" carry, when i need to clear the abyss. I still use Raiden as hyper carry because i don´t really enjoy hyperbloom, i usually only use a Nilou Team if i want to play Dendro.

[@yuma4082]

"Everyone who's been playing the game for a reasonable amount of time has Sucrose" My AR 60 ass missing Sucrose and Fav Codex:

[@jamahldavis5078]

If I’m being honest having yoimai and thoma in the same category is just crazy

[@khadizaanwarjolly5779]

Is it?

[@BobFinkleberry0]

I agree

[@несквикспивом-ъ4ю]

agree, yoimiya is 💩

[@nezolar]

thoma should be higher because stuff like burgeon and burn melt is just better than yoimiya LMAO

[@BobFinkleberry0]

@@nezolar ?

[@anyanP]

Can’t wait to see Sayu’s value increasing heavily with Furina’s release

[@Nosiop09]

Fr I think she will be suprising

[@felipepoffo]

so hopium

[@mhead1117]

Mid even in the best timeline

[@sniperfox8806]

Some fun ideas for geo reactions if crystalise were to be removed: Splash: hydro and geo, applies aoe hydro damage that also staggers Shatter: cryo, just the shatter in the game, but can also be activated by geo application Molten: geo and pyro, damage over time, increasing with increased pyro application, and provides some crystalise shards of geo allignment Static: applies jolt of staggering electro in aoe

[@mrdata9823]

I think you were a bit harsh on sayu. Here's why, she is the only anemo healer that can scale off EM so she is a good user of swirl and on top of that she heals just as good as jeane, so she heals and does alot of dmg at the same time just like kuki (not as broken of course) but she heals infinitely better than her and well yes the exploration aspect is there too (I for one never slotted her out because of the exploration lol).

[@VoidBetween]

One thing I'll add is Ayato is very good at wide aoe hydro application when built as a burst unit. He is much simpler than hydro+anemo (plus role consolidation)and also has the advantage of being Nilou compatible.

[@vondex13]

I would say you should probably add the traveler to each version because each time they get a new form and especially in the beginning of version 3 you'd be looking at very skewed data about dendro characters without mentioning dendro traveler.

[@lakkycharms]

every traveller pretty much has no usage nowadays (even dendro traveller got replaced by the prevelance of dendro ppl only used dendro traveller back in the day due to a lack of options)

[@fashlimakarim6757]

@@lakkycharms But at least dendro traveler's elemental burst has a large area and also could increase the active character's elemental mastery. He/She's very useful

[@evanrammstein9257]

L take. Heizou is not Kazuha or Sucrose, he is more like Alhaitham or Wriothesley. He is a very good unit with double atk arti pieces. His normals do 20k and his skill easily does 500k. You should not build him as an anemo support.

[@keneunaegbu851]

Exactly

[@googlrscholar]

hes even worse when evaluated as a carry lmao

[@naufalsadewa223]

@@googlrscholarhes a sub dps driver, not a carry

[@anyaaa2801]

Where did this 500k comes from bruh?

[@evancavalier647]

yeah 500k is high, best ive done is 350k@@anyaaa2801

[@----x-----]

Tier lists are always a tricky thing. Sayu is actually almost good the issue is that she has no CC at all, even in teams where she could be a good mix of anemo and healer it's better to run Kazuha with another healer and it's not even about the damage it's just because Abyss punishes teams so much if enemies are spread apart and Kazuha fixes that Geo's underrated big time as usual, it has a rough start but at a high level it performs well and comparable to most non top teams The Niche category feels odd, some characters like Venti are legit niche units, works in almost any team as long as the enemies can be grouped, its niche isn't tied to a comp but to a situation. Shenhe is tied to the Cryo element but she's not niche to any given situation, she's just a Cryo support just like Ayaka is a cryo dps, if Ayaka is not niche why would her support be? Sure Shenhe has less team comps than Bennet but Bennet isn't universal either, transformative teams or non ATK scaling teams don't really make use of him. There are very few truly universal supports like Kazuha who you can put on almost any team and he will be a good team option. And no element is "niche, they all work in most situations except vs their natural counters. How is Thoma less niche than Shenhe? They both have a few specific teams that make use of them. The only team tha truly wants Thoma to my knowledge is Burgeon. Yoimiya is at her best vs a single target, the more targets you add more her performance diminishes, isn't that literally a niche too? This ties to Yunjin, her main team is with Yoimiya because she just buffs normals that is her niche normals just as much as elemental buffers have a niche with their elements. Now Kuki's kit is actually not very good at face value it's flawed and for a long time she was at nearly never used tier but hyperbloom gave her a place in a comp with a good consistent performance so she became as good as that comp itself, take her out of hyperbloom and her value goes down a lot, isn't that niche as well? I just think perhaps tier lists have a lot of room to evolve. Not disagreeing with the overall placements based on the way the tier list is set up tho. It's still a good reflection of the amount of investment needed for each unit/comp to perform sufficiently well to clear , the impact they have on their team's performance or the amount of teams they can fit.

[@Sinthoras8]

Agree. This video feels biased (or too biased compared to usual Vars), even uninformed at times (Yun Jin being just a atk speed buffer, when that's locked behind her c6). And the list goes further than what you mentioned, like comparing Heizou to anemo supports, when he's not a support or not in the sense that Sucrose or Kazuha are.

[@Aven_lover]

Um kuki works so well with any cryo character especially kaeya. Just use kuki's elemental power and couple it with kaeya's elemental power and the resulting elemental reaction can even break shields.

[@ochayta]

The one trait I like about crystallize on YunJin is that it actually works sometimes with Yoimiya, I don't and won't have Zhongli on my account, so occasional shield surprisingly helps as a bonus feature Ofc it's not reliable and never really saves the day, but it's a little ray of sunlight :D //Will probably replace her with Layla once I get her con which buffs normal attacks for that added feeling of ✨ synergy ✨

[@braddl9442]

My only gripe about your approach to this is that its pure combat focused. You even realized that Sayu was prob niche for the fact she is S tier explorer. She might not be the best for combat, but she is really useful for farming and gathering as well as moving. She is so useful for the other half of the games mechanics.

[@Erythr1n]

This is purely focused on the Abyss. Every character is good on their own, but not all of them can keep up with the Abyss and other units, that's all.

[@momslayer456]

This video is more about usability, flexibility and efficiency in the meta of genshin nothing else

[@AzureDrag0n1]

I guess she is the best 4 star explorer but Yelan and Wanderer are far superior. So even in exploration she got powercrept.

[@beaniemave]

I mean, there's not much to talk about outside of combat, though? Like "Ayaka can cross through water", "Yoimiya can light torches", etc. aren't interesting points for a video. They don't spark meaninful discussion nor do they require high levels of analysis.

[@plant_pot119]

That's kind of the point of the video

[@kondoriano4813]

Nah you are BIG TIME BUGGIN' on Heizou, why does he need to compete with Venti, Kazuha, and Sucrose when he's not even designed to do any of their jobs?! 😂😂 He's more comparable to Xiao and Wanderer since he's clearly an on field DPS just like them. Now I know how much you underestimate Anemo main-DPSs which is still absurdly stupid but still, Heizou IS good. B-tier good, he's a good on-fielder. Nothing you can say can debunk that, ever.

[@FBl]

This dude is a joke. He spreads so much misinformation.

[@someonesomewhereoutthere1994]

Geo would be much better if mihoyo buffed it as a universal shield breaker dealing more damage to all shields(abyss mages, lectors and wooden shields)

[@galdrekweigandkahal7916]

I love Kuki's redemption story, such a cool character have a powerful place now fills me with joy

[@honeybeeami2654]

Kuki went pretty unnoticed in her debut but Dendro has been the best thing for her. I’d argue that she’s the one character that benefited more than anyone else in when we unlocked Sumeru.

[@6235river]

Archons like Raiden Shogun, Zhongli, Nahida, etc. should ideally be timeless which is why it's good that their kits are catered toward support rather than main dps (though, obviously, almost any character can be a main dps depending on their build). There won't be a patch in the game where you can't benefit from teamwide buffs or energy generation or a giga shield + all of the other crazy passives their kits offer. I'm honestly really glad that the archons serve the role that they do, except for my boy Venti who they kinda fumbled with by giving Kazuha and Sucrose more versatile/useful kits.

[@Ohenheim]

Heizou is a good unit, his issue is that he's competing with broken unit like Kazu and Sucrose

[@joe_simon]

Not only that. He has two roles Support (in which he competes with the mentioned chars) Damage dealer/Driver (in which he is just outclassed by Xiao or Wanderer. Maybe even Faruzan if she is C6 and in driving stuff he was outclassed by Sucrose overall except maybe Single Target). So while he does both okay he wasn't really great anywhere. So was her ever good? Not really. But was he bad? Not really. He does fit in the last tier because he was never good because he was outclassed. But if we ignore that he was actually a good unit. So benched could also fit.

[@Darksage5555]

So the heizou problem is that he is anemo, so he gets compared to venti, kazu, sucrose... but his personal dmg might be lacking... let's look at his play style, take a 4 star team, Bennett, xinqiu, xiangling, And heizou... his personal dmg in that team dwars the rest of the team, I play that team in abyss for fun sometimes and even screenshared it with a friend who thinks heizou is bad. When you start seeing the consistent 100k hits, realize they are aoe. Tons of swirls everywhere. Energy particles everywhere I think you realize he is actually... on the better side of ok but not good. Too many characters do his job easier, safer, and better. I love heizou but he really suffers from 4 star.

[@Hiro-rc2wr]

Never thought I'll ever see the day when Yae and Ayaka will be in one tier and Shinobu is now in a higher tier than them. I don't mean this to be negative but as someone who started in 2.0 I'm just shocked and amazed.

[@krasivalchev]

Sayu is also helpful in farming Crystalflies due to her passive.

[@ViewtifulDevil]

The Itto Mono-Geo take is just wildly inaccurate. At the end of 2.8, itto's Mono team comp wasn't "barely B+" but still firmly in high tier with good clear times. It was comparable to Hutao Double-Hydro at times (especially when the Pyro Lecture was prominent in floors 11 and 12). Even through 3.0 there were plenty of Mono-Geo friendly abyss floor 12 sides where Itto was as viable as any other hyper carry option. 4.X is still pretty new but aside from Coppelius' shield pretty soundly needing Pyro to break in any timely fashion, Itto-Geo is still a comfortable pick. If "having better options" is what should get you benched on these lists, then Zhongli, Raiden, and Kokomi NEED to get benched as well (which would be an insane move) as they are ALWAYS a comfort option these days. Hell, even Ayaka should get thrown into the benched list by these standards, since Freeze has fallen off with the numerous boss floors clogging the later floors making it a much less viable team.

[@bair_oos]

Sayu deserves to be in nieche cause without her exploring would be so tiring

[@ozandis127]

I feel like Yelan isn't top tier unless you have her signature weapon.

[@Scorpius-jo6wm]

I usually like your takes but this was an L. Heizou performs almost as well as wanderer and xiao and he's a 4* (and more versatile, and more comfy in overworld). He also has that one big hit that doesn't require energy for when you want to dispose of an enemy who has annoying attacks. He's also the best 4* option for national if you don't have sucrose. Itto team with minimal investment can clear one side of abyss in under a minute for each floor. It literally works on EVERYTHING (and yes, I've cleared abyss lecters etc, it's really not that difficult. Just have enough ER.) and allows you to pick from your entire roster for the other side. It has kept the same 4 units since it began (every other old-school team has changed in terms of optimal units since they became a thing) and one of them (Gorou) is a 4* that you'll probably get C6 of just from getting Itto (especially if you get Cons on itto). None of them need 5* weapons and only 2 of them get a significant damage upgrade from 5* weapons (Itto and Zhongli...and Zhongli's damage doesn't matter much anyway). Gorou just uses fav, Albedo has 3 options, 2 of which are free event weapons and the other is harbinger lol. Itto's best 4* is craftable. The Itto disrespect is real. He allows you to ignore elemental reactions, team comps and rotation mechanics altogether and just smash with big stick.

[@Angie_OwOb]

it makes me wonder. with navia and chiori in the horizon, it seems that hoyo is not ready to give up on Geo yet, now that dendro is out of the way I think geo is going to be their New focus alongside pyro.

[@RennietheRobit]

I am so glad to see someone give Kokomi an honest review. I love her design and kit due to me being obsessed with catalysts and healers so she was an easy choice for me, but I've seen so many people trash anyone not using Yelan or Xingqiu

[@MetroidFission]

If you're not gonna do version 3 anytime soon, what do you think of Tighnari currently? He came out in exactly 3.0 so I'm really curious about what you think of him now in 4.X.

[@themagikconk]

NGL this list was kinda rough. Even the reasoning for some tiers i agree with were rough

[@BrendenBarlow]

I feel like comparing heizou to sucrose, venti and kazuha isn't a fair comparison, considering they are all anemo supports. Heizou is not that, he is meant to be a dps so yeah idk. Otherwise though i agree with your video! And nice production value😊😁

[@robertjif6337]

yelan is so broken, at C1 she make you forgot sprint button while exploring

[@m00n119]

If your a controller player ayato is much smoother to control and honestly i also feel he is more adaptable and useful. I've been loving neauvillette but atm his rotations just feel slow and for most people you likely only have enough characters for one of his good teams While i appreciate finally having a character who isnt ping sensitive (i play at 250 to 280 ping usually) ayato even with his ping issues is still just more fun because i can chuck him in any team and he will be the goat 24/7. Maybe furina will get neauvillette there soon but honestly i just dont like character who are relient on other characters to be fun to play

[@narukami4959]

Ayato just makes any team you put him in worse

[@jjillalalac2487]

This game has no competition in it just pick the unit you like and make them work use tier lists as a guide but dont get fomoed by it

[@tegmencoloney]

i agree with you about sayu but i have been clearing abyss since forever with her as a healer with vv in one of the teams i just find her easy to build if you have c6 then its easier

[@rifahtasfia7224]

Blud really called Neuvillette a slightly better version of Ayato💀

[@kaylafoxx41]

Tier lists are stupid and the meta doesn't matter. I clear abyss with Sayu, I clear it with Dori, I clear it with physical Xinyan. Genshin is too easy to make any sort of fuss over meta. Build your team smart with decent artifacts and you're fine.

[@menikinaka]

Heizou works so well for quick swap teams. He needs 3 seconds for 100k and because of his low energy cost he can do this easily every rotation

[@hitchicker42]

I will probably never stop using Sayu for exploration, even if I get a character like Yelan or Kirara, the reason being is that her skill is too useful(for me personally). Being able to go around and make up for, say, not having a hydro character to get rid of the fatui agent’s pyro shield, well Sayu can just roll in a puddle of water and then I’m all good. She’s just to valuable to me as, with seven elements now, she helps to make up for what I can’t put on my team, she applies the vv debuff, she heals, and she helps to explore faster(she also lets me go past the Piamon barrier).

[@yntao]

Yelan is faster but sayu skill is longer

[@dimitarmilenkov2148]

I use thoma since his introduction because he was the only option for my hu tao team (that i pulled on the same banner). The team was hu tao xingqui kazuha and thoma. This team is acutally super solid, especially with c6 thoma to boost hu taos charged attack as well as give her pyro resonance interruption and a solid shield which she refreshes pretty well. I like the double hydro and I use it but this team has a special place in my heart becasue i learned how to use thoma in a good way.

[@EmmentalRaclette]

will vars ever do a good tier list...

[@handsomejack2201]

Im starting to think that Vars knowingly puts controversial decisions in his videos. He not only have no clue how Heizou or Yun Jin are used, but straight benched whole geo team just because. And its just this video alone.

[@dragonsstars7734]

Heizou being extremely fun to use as an on field driver is enough reason to use him

[@izzuddinfaruqi1493]

You and me my man, you and me. 🤝

[@dragonsstars7734]

@@izzuddinfaruqi1493 I'm glad we see eye to eye brother, cheers🤝

[@Oly876]

But now his gimmick is not even unique to him anymore😂

[@dragonsstars7734]

@@Oly876 I have both Wrio and Heizou and I love them both to bits, changed absolutely nothing for me

[@Oly876]

@@dragonsstars7734 Cope🤣

[@LordNeltharion]

As for Ayato, while i don't have him (yet) I'd be willing to argue he can go up a tier due to how massive his burst is and while he's likely to be slowly creeped up on as is what happens with Gacha's (Neuvillete is already showing that) he can still deal good personal damage while being far more versatile with Neuvillete's passive being team based and as for his comparison to kokomi, XQ and Yelan it may just be because I either would and or do only slot those 3 as sub DPS/Support comparing them to the main DPS slot of Ayato feels...wrong. fun video tho.

[@jonson856]

The problem with freeze is that Hoyo has shifted the meta. Like with the rift hounds, making shielders useless, Hoyo has introduced a lot of enemies which cant be frozen …..

[@ajreyes1262]

rift hounds are freeze teams btch tho

[@kazuu_44]

heizou definitely deserves a higher placement. he’s better than sucrose for damage, his skill is INSANE. for me it hits 60-88k WITHOUT BUFFS. only the widsith buffs, but I wouldn’t count that as an external buff sucrose has better support capabilities sure, but heizous em buffing passive still helps the rest of the team (but falls off if it’s a main dps team comp rather than a reaction comp) and, heizou still to this day holds my highest damage. like 500k. I’ve tried getting more with hu tao, or lyney- and they’ve got alot sure, but hu taos max is maybe 320k not saying he’s better than her or some other characters as a main dps, but he’s definitely not so much worse to deserve the lowest tier 😭😭 my boy is seriously underrated

[@neoinfinity5204]

Damn I figured Sayu would be benched since she can be better than Jean sometimes but I suppose that died quickly since she’s not battle balanced, I will argue Shenhe is more OK since she’s much stronger and little more flexible than Sara.

[@SingulxRyty]

Tartaglia wasnt included in the version 1 in his previous video because he will be later included in Version 6 along with the Cryo Tsaritsa so please be patient Childe Lovers.

[@YellowPingouin]

So Raiden is in godtier because She's versatile but Ayato is in OK because he fits into many teams but it's not bis in many? Like by the reasoning given in Raiden's placement, either She's in OK tier as well or Ayato is on godtier lmao

[@vichoe4589]

raiden is not even that versatile nowadays. She only really has raidenational (kinda overrated as of now imo) and hypercarry as raiden-must have teams, other teams that feature raiden can swap her out for other electros with ease

[@saiprasad3584]

Then how does it make sense to hv raiden in godtier lol

[@lumsalo]

What's with the geo slander? "They can't keep up anymore" If Itto was considered good in 2.3, and stayed the same since then, never changing in two years, how is he bad now? Obsolete even. Yes, he requires a lot of investment, and in a lot of other ways he's a lot like Ayaka, a bit less flexible Does hyperbloom's existance aloone somehow change geo characters' strengths? And one of your arguments against mono geo was...... Mono pyro. Great.

[@diytrashpunks]

Yelan and itto are my absolute favorites for different reasons.

[@cixoushenri]

I believe Ayato should've gone into still pretty good. Despite Childe and Neuvillette have better hydro application and damage output, one aspect of ayato that most people look over is how flexible and huge his AoE is. And his ER need for consistent burst uptime isn't bad (around 140%-150%) w second hydro unit. I just think in terms of huge AoE hydro coverage, Ayato does the job pretty well.

[@aries-zn6xe]

pretty good over all, but for me both itto and ayato are at least in pretty good (maybe itto in the "okey") because ayato can be in so many teams and the diference with tartaglia is not as much, and honeslty he does to much damage even if it looks really low (if u want a hydro on field tartaglia is not always worth it and kokomi can't do ayato's job, and yelan in aoe is no that great) and itto... he is kinda misudertood, many people play de 4 geo team but that's not the best geo team, is 3 geo (itto albedo and c6 gorou) with a fischl, bennet, shongun , etc. unlike xiao, c0 itto is a beast on his own.

[@user-wn3gk5yb4o]

yunjin is niche, she doesn’t only buff attack speed but normal attacks in general which a lot of characters can benefit from like yoimiya, ayato, wanderer etc… and reguarding “why would u put double geo without mono geo” double geo is one of yoimiya’s best teams since she relies heavily on a shielder or a healer, hu tao also has a double geo team that does decent damage

[@soos.mpvier3187]

Honestly i would put yunjin one down and ayato one up. Ayato (i dont have him) just can be used like yae miko to cover more area and with nahida in example nilou bloom oor something like that he is a better option.

[@stickurou]

Forgot Electro Traveler. Probably would be never good/benched though.

[@usmanya5110]

Shinobu being that high feels off like yeah she got buff but outside hyperbloom yeah idk. damn ayato being in okay. is kinda sad but understandable, like he's more of a jack of all trades master of none, he has solid damage not high, and large aoe. compared to the other on field hydros i think he's the best for burgeon since Neuvi doesn't really work well thoma and dehya can somewhat feel worse outside of her in hyperbloom. as for childe since outside of grassional he tends to have uptime issues.

[@thornszk]

ofcourse hyperbloom. How the hell would you use kuki in melt and vapes. She has a niche and she works as intended.

[@redi2408]

Shinobu is awsome when she came out i was not impressed by her kit but now i like her a lot.

[@MorgenPeschke]

You missed Sayu's most important niche: crystalfly farming 😉

[@remko7559]

Yaoyao can do it too. She can also do dmg and better heals. ☹️

[@MorgenPeschke]

@remko7559 And? I'd be ok with "Benched," it was "Never Good," that had my head scratching. Plus, between cystalflys and fast movement, it was weird to not mention the QOL benefits Sayu was mostly known for 🤷🏼‍♀️

[@ruvik7798]

I don't know why people don't like long video, I love the long format video. You can do alot of things while listening to Vars talking about games, or maybe I'm just old

[@BrendenBarlow]

I love the octopath music in the background

[@Custom31658]

L TAKE for heizou considering that u put him into was never good list so basically sugar coating the word trash because I don't see him being put in even the okay tier so heizou? Is somehow not even an okay unit? Jus because he's competing with sucrose and kazuha? That's like comparing qiqi with raiden they both are completely different heizou does far more damage than any 4 star characters out their u could even argue he's better than klee as his over all damage is solid he's not slow or clunky he mogs klee too imo putting him into was never good tier is seeming like a personal dislike to me or u jus don't know what ur talking about

[@vichoe4589]

vars always tends to compare ANY anemo unit with sucrose/kazu when they have a completely different role, it doesnt make sense he once said xiao and scara are bad units because they are not utility based like kazu and sucrose 🙃 (mind you Xiao is prolly still one of the best AoE dps and Scara is not far behind from other dps)

[@MythicAce218]

i personally have never stopped using itto since i got him(well i don't main him anymore i still use him alot.) he's still really fucking good. is he meta? no but hw's still a really solid unit who's imo worth picking up if you like him. it might be niche and it might not be a good element but itto teams are still good. ofc current meta comps are gonna be better theres no denying that but its one of those comps that is very niche but still good.

[@toodled1340]

yunjin increases the damage too tho 😞

[@FBl]

Bro really put Yoimiya in the same category as Thoma 😂

[@averagemilkconsumer]

Ayato should at be in the still pretty good tier imo he doesnt fit well next to thoma and yoimiya. He doesn't lose out in terms of DPS againt childe in national by a huge amount and the same can be said with him in hyperbloom etc swapped with neuv. His versatility makes up for that performance drop since he can work in more teams which is good pull value. Only problem is he doesnt have any good 4star weapon options. I have a well invested yoimiya and ayato, the yoimiya having better overall crit value and ayato outshines her on my account hes a clear tier above.

[@Nanaer396]

Comparing heizou to supports when he is a dps is kinda dumb tbh

[@cynon6]

When it comes to ayato, he is hands down the best hydro applicator for nilou bloom teams, thanks to his burst.

[@naufalsadewa223]

kokomi exist, candace exist, barbara exist

[@anyaaa2801]

I’m pretty sure that’s Kokomi. You might want to check your reference.

[@cynon6]

@@naufalsadewa223 I didn't say ayato was the only hydro, and tell me which of those has a wider aoe range of hydro application?

[@cynon6]

@anyaaa2801 kokomi is only considered good because she consolidates hydro application and healing. She can't compete with ayato and his huge aoe of hydro, there are other healers besides kokomi you know

[@s4tya_ae885]

Neuvillete exist

[@wafudramon]

Some may not say.. but your way of doing video where pictures of characters pops in or shown, its such smooth transition that makes me wants to watch more

[@inversepie6512]

I think Ayaka is top tier still, but otherwise agree completely with the list. I have Shenhe and I like Shenhe, but she is an Ayaka accessory and nothing more

[@bjornnilsson2941]

For the longest time I only had Sucrose and Sayu as my anemo units (Anemo MC is not a unit) and the only other healer on my team that was built was Bennett, so Sayu is mega useful in situations like that. If she's compared to any other anemo units she obviously pales in comparison but I'll always think fondly of her for being indispensable in the early game. I still use her a lot on the overworld where she is S+ tier. Totally agreed on Shinobu, she's definitely in the top 5 four stars. I think I'd put her above Sucrose but just below Fischl.