Are Veteran Players Being Forced Out for New Players in Black Desert Online

While Pearl Abyss is making Black Desert easier for newer players to jump into the game and all the nerfs called "simplifying" Are Veteran Players being forced out of Black Desert Online in favor of the new player, and will they start leaving to Pax Dei when the Early Access drops June 18th?
Original Stream : kzbin.infopNIfvsMaA2c
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#blackdesert #bdo

[@TeddyTwighlite]

Just another horrible rant for you all to have fun with! How many of you are waiting for Pax Dei to come out and see if its worth playing? Having so many things in the game being simplified its only a matter of time before Black Desert start bleeding out Veteran Players leaving only the newer ones but is that the plan.. not sure BUT sure does feel like the plan but as always, I hope you enjoyed the bad take and I'll see you for the next one. Keep Gathering out there!

[@xbb326]

6 years in BDO i dont feel forced out 😂

[@TeddyTwighlite]

I've been here since 2016 lol 😆 😂

[@theneonatmosphere3364]

All these game companies are starting to kiss the bottoms of these crybaby players that want everything now, problem is it steals from the grind of these games and limits the long term play. I've watched other games just kill their server population from doing this.

[@TeddyTwighlite]

I remember 1 game that had 14mil players and started to implement the simplifying or dumbing a feature down to cater to those who don't have time while hurting those who did.. I heard they've never been the same since

[@sethterwilliger9434]

SWTOR is a great example of that

[@1TN]

sometimes when i travel around the beautiful world of BDO i say to myself: there are so many cool places.. very good looking places that need some more life, but very few of them have something that would make us stay there for longer, especially if you are someone who wants to progress efficiently

[@TeddyTwighlite]

Lol diving in the ocean or just sailing around is pretty evident of it now that the monsters were placed in groups in select areas and NOTHING underwater lol other than hunting my workers handle it all so I'm just sitting in a town afk lol maybe they'll hear our plight and give more life to the game instead of progressing it to an afk mobile game

[@Justuas]

You said the key word "efficiently". Players themselves will ruin the fun because all they care about is silver/h

[@setharies8877]

For me it was my horse, it took me SOOO long to get a dream horse when i finally did, they started giving them away, now i got 2 more for free and you see them everywhere.

[@TeddyTwighlite]

Thats how it was for me, 46 taps to finally get mine and they give out 2!

[@Cheeeroke]

Archeage pre 3.0 was so good man. i miss it

[@DarkProphet.]

From a Financial point of View, it makes more sense to try getting New players and cross fingers that some will stay and Spend money for like all the "DLC" packages you can buy on Steam or elsewhere, and invest to get all the Buffs that make your Life easier. While older Veteran Players that already do Spend money every month to get Buffs and everything might not even get mad that new players have advantages, Veteran Players that dont spend money every month for Buffs but only do Life skilling or PVE only and collect Buffs and stuff over time, those last ones i mentioned are the only ones that might Leave, which isnt a big "Loss". All this from a Financial POV, but maybe, just maybe getting Veteran Players to spend money or giving them %OFF on IG Stuff, would maybe make them spend Money on the game again. Personally im not interessted on Throwing my Money at them for a couple Outfits, only Money i ever spent on the Game was for the Camping Tent, Horn for calling my Horse or stuff like that. Yea, colored Outfits and stuff with MarvsPlate looks cool, and %Buffs on Combat XP or Lifeskilling XP Bonuses are great, but spending something close to 50€ on EUW (54USD) is not worth it. A Traveling bag with 16Slots is like 28USD, a Value Pack for 90Days is like 45€ (48USD), i dont really feel like throwing that much at them, i can buy a Tripple A game (on discount) with 50€/54USD. Just my Opinion, not hating the game or anything.

[@TeddyTwighlite]

Has nothing to do with the money we can spend but the fact that the money we spend is for nothing because it's all made to be afk or the rewards were nerfed. I could go down the fact that the all the combat items minus the tent is handed out for free while the lifeskilling items have to be bought only or the fact that IF you buy em you find out that the money spent was for nothing with it being simplified down.

[@DarkProphet.]

@@TeddyTwighlite I started Playing Shai a couple Years ago, cause it would have been my Lifeskill only Char. Now they kinda made it poitless to do so, i still love the Shai and i keep playing as one, but what the Character was for like Life skills or Music, it almost lost it's purpose. I dont dislike that New players get stuff for Free, but it isn't very "fair" that you get a Dream Horse or two for free, while Veteran players spent hours training a Horse, days figuring out all the Mats they need, weeks or even Months and Thousands of Cronstones to get that one Dreamhorse. It is sad that Players spent time and Money on stuff that others then get for free. What's the Point in spending money? to get it sooner, than others that will get it later for free? too much P2W. I see the things that got simplified in a good manner as well, not erverything is horrible or wrong, it's an evolution and some always will dislike the "change", what i see a lack in is, rewarding long lasting Veteran Players that have been part of the game for a very long time and brought the game to even get this far, by monetary support or by Bug reports/Beta testing, giving new input or new ideas. I totally understand that, they need new players they need new people willing to spend hundreds or thousands of bucks in the game so they can keep the game up and running, but "IF" it's all about Money, then they could do it like some other games and make Expansions like LoML paid ones, and only grant access to Players that are interested in, choosing if they want the new PVP expansion or PVE expansion or Lifeskilling Expansion and so on, but it's just an idea.

[@TeddyTwighlite]

@LastProphet. It's easier to just give guru lifeskiller activities to do so not only does it cause the newer players to strive for it and they can charge us for but without that "end game" you're mainly relying on the newer players before they hit that wall. It's doesn't have to be a complicated thing to say buff harpoon fishing or say like making so introducing animals to hunt that only show up at guru like the hotspots. Anything could be done without catering to just the one side

[@DarkProphet.]

@@TeddyTwighlite Exclusive Drops that you can only get by hitting Master/Artisan/Guru, something that comes after Guru 50 or Guru 100 would be great (so it would make more sense to keep on gathering or fish), give Players a reward for like Gathering/Mining/Farming 1000/10000 times. There are many Ways that would affect Lifeskilling in a way that would give Veteran Players a reward and New Players a target to reach, cause right now i dont see why a new player should start Gathering when, 90% of the stuff can be gathered/farmed by Workers.

[@ncar2160]

Thanks for speaking about this. It do be like that. BDO used to be one of the best lifeskilling mmorpgs but now that is pretty questionable.

[@TeddyTwighlite]

Yeah I remember lifeskilling for hours back in the day and now less and less cause my workers will do it

[@clementl21]

Yeaaah i agreee ! I want more reward due to my veteran situation !!!!

[@TeddyTwighlite]

Agreeeeed!!!

[@andyandmeganjohnson4335]

Personally as a BDO console player since launch. I'm only 748gs. I remember what it was like to have no fairy, or boss gear. Where you had to 2 man Hystria when that came out back in the day. Sure some changes were nice like the simplifying, but the gear situation is all but pretty much destroyed. Who gives a damn about the new weapons when they are just handing out BiS pen black stars (console) they have literally ruined what accolades of "time" spent working and grinding for in the game for Veteran players. I personally believe slumbering should of been c20 like they originally planned. At this point they might as well remove gear entirely, and you just play the class you want. (And refund the money veteran people spent in their gimmick Cron enhance system, Tents, Etc) They'll still make plenty of money on weapon skins and outfits. People still play the same shit Call if Duty that's rebranded over and over, Pearl Abyss might as well join them.

[@TeddyTwighlite]

PA refunding lol that's a LOT of money they'd have to do which will NEVER happen

[@andyandmeganjohnson4335]

@@TeddyTwighlite truth 😑

[@othahex]

I had to leave but it's mainly the new servers. Hard to play with 200ms+ now. Is what it is. Outside of that, I don't feel like the game was forcing me out even since playing in 2015. IMO BDO really needs a new engine.

[@TeddyTwighlite]

Unfortunately they won't bother especially when they can just release crimson desert and start funding their other mmo their making

[@NightmareOni]

In short, yes. As someone who has played since day 1 of release, I'm losing hope in the game. Any more of the current director's approach, I'll be quitting. Which sucks because it's the best past time I've had since 2016

[@LazaYoyo]

As a nooby for whom the entry lvl for pvp was too high before, I immensely benefit from the changes. But I believe veterans are the people still running this game. The guilds, the wars, the guides everything so we don’t wanna lose them!!

[@nriverad]

Nah, new players can do that too. Its a cycle, new and younger players should take the place of veterans, thats happening, thats the why behind the changes.

[@kunkaboy]

Sad dude but I do agree with the idea that all those possible good MMOS killed themselves and it's sad when devs don't lesen to there communities .It makes no sense for devs not to lessen to ther people and that's why the game will die . J and his pride will kill BDO i am 1000% positive of that.

[@noyourewrong599]

Guru isn't the goal, Guru50 is

[@kingmalkontent8471]

based

[@EpicUbermensch]

This MMO is constantly removing it's Identity. It's focusing on instance content and non life skill PVE. There is no point in which BDO will ever be better than the Leading MMOS at instant content and PVE content. This game's Identity was a OPEN WORLD sandbox player motivated interaction. There really wasn't a reward to begin with to interact in a open world, but now there is a shit load of punishments for interacting with other people lol. This is a single player game who wants to become a instance PVE game. NO more open world, NO more PVP. Welcome to shitty dungeons, Mari's realm, and report anyone who interrupts your circles. This was not BDO's Original identity. People buy this game to play something other than a wow clone. Why become a wow clone?

[@sethterwilliger9434]

what is pax dei,,never heard of it

[@mmoplayah2874]

Asmongold played it. Its on beta, more like an western style kind of mmo just like new world but you can build your own territory.

[@TeddyTwighlite]

The early access starts June 18th and there's a lot more to the game but I wanna see how the crafting gathering or just general immersion there is

[@TheBrokensaintvxvx]

At least you got to the sales pitch for pre-ordering some garbage survival game in under five minutes.

[@Xerathiel]

The only special thing in this game is combat. The rest is has always been worse.

[@CigBungus]

Yes they changed the order of the tabs when you open MP maid/storage !! Dead game

[@DSFXRENDER]

imo players will bitch and whine when change comes. so really the only ones forcing them out is themselves

[@TeddyTwighlite]

Oh no doubt you'll have a large selection mad and will leave just because a color is changed or a font isn't to their liking for sure. That's why I say, Black desert isn't dying and I just hope they don't go down the same path as other mmos that simplified everything that made them really unique or fun.

[@blkamatarasu6287]

Hell no im out ciao

[@HeroTori]

Hey Teddy! This is going to be long, so I apologize in advance for that, but you mention a lot of things that strike a chord with me. I'm a somewhat newer player, compared to real veterans at least, as I didn't install the game until after shai's release, and I didn't actually start playing until a year and a half after that. I've played MMORPGs as a whole for a very long time, and while BDO didn't really appeal to me at its launch, it really grew into something I love. The complexities you mention are a huge part of what immersed me in the game. The fact that all of the systems exist and interconnect makes the whole world feel so much more interactive. I'm "mainly" a PvP player (though in time investment, I'm *mostly* a lifeskiller), and my goals in BDO always revolved around getting stronger and more conveniently navigating the world. Using the different systems to progress my overall "account strength" is where I'd derive my dopamine in BDO. Many games I have and do play have done this crunching down of the early-to-mid game segments, and sometimes that crunch-down is really heavy-handed. It's wild to think that MapleStory's crunch turned levels 1-200 basically into the tutorial, but then there's games like FFXIV which still make the new players experience the entire storyline, but cut down on more extraneous content (mostly making them optional sidequests, I believe). Though I've heard similar sentiments about Warframe, I want to say that game also does a good job of not speed-running players into the endgame, as the whole experience of the game is learning and familiarizing yourself with the world(s) and its systems. I think a big hurdle for BDO ends up being that the main appeal of the game was always that grindy KRMMO feeling in a sandboxy type of world. If PA wants to crunch down on the early game to get people to the endgame, all they are really doing is changing the timeline of where newer players are grinding. Instead of players pushing for PEN boss armors and coveting Blackstars like when I started, now it's rush from seasons to Fallen God armors and hit PEN Blackstars ASAP. Give it a few years and surely we'll have things akin to Jetina's Deboreka accesories, while endgame is likely a tier or two ahead of that. When I started BDO, it felt like it was a game that wouldn't keep scaling after max gear, kind of like GW2. It felt like it would take a metric fuck-ton of grinding to get to that max gear, but when you got there, it would become more about build diversity. However, since updates have skewed towards vertical progression, it's only natural that the early game breakpoints would be hastened so that newer players aren't left with a 3+ year grind to play alongside veterans. All that said, I think that improving the early game experience by fleshing out the world and impactful systems from the get-go would be a much better way to go about improving the new player experience. There was never supposed to be a rush to an "endgame," especially since that endgame is more of what we get to experience from the start.

[@TeddyTwighlite]

Lol I do t mind and hit a couple points but the issue I have is the fact that I've done my casual grind and once at guru that's it... the money doesn't reflect the time and effort for lifeskilling, you can swipe your card and just buy the combat gear from the central market so a lot of the grind is removed unless you need a specific item that isn't sold on the central, and the the events are catered to afk play. Starting out IS WAAAY better than in 2016 but after the activities you can. Do once you hit Guru are very little if none for lifeskilling. And, I get it. It's a Korean MMO that is only about mob grinding for hours like maple story but because PEARL ABYSS added lifeskilling into the game I can ignore that it IS a part of the game even if people want to say you should o ly be mob grinding. The same sentiment can be said about pvp, it should be removed because it's a mob grinding game not a tournament fighter lol Idk, it's just a shame they can't find a way to please both the newer and veterans but aye what do I know?

[@HeroTori]

@@TeddyTwighlite Hey, thanks for reading and replying! :D A big appeal of MMORPGs to me is that they are a combination of all of these different game modes, and the optional amount of engagement or specialization you can have in any of the areas. But you're totally right, they're not as fleshed out as they could be. Like, grinding is a big part of the game, but not everyone needs to touch mobs. But the endgame to grinding is just more grinding, there's no damage numbers to chase, there aren't any real mechanical difficulties in higher level zones... the biggest PvE content we probably have are the dungeons, and I'm sure you don't need to be *that* geared to run the Elvia versions. PvP is a weird beast in that you do need to grind in order to get geared, but you could technically get there without grinding mobs... I mostly cooked and fished myself, but I have a decent amount of grind hours. And of course, now the main PvP modes are either templated or capped (AoS and most node wars and sieges), and with the removal of the story accessories, PvP is more quickly accessed than ever. I may personally like open world PvP as an option, but I know it gets used for griefing more often than not. I do think that the swiping is... the most tolerable I've seen in an online game, maybe besides GW2. There's the weekly limit, and the fact that grinding is "more efficient" than swiping, unless you're earning over $40 an hour or something like that. And uh... finally, the lifeskilling, I'm also positive it needs some buffs. But not *just* money per hour, but like you mentioned in your video, the different activities that unlock at higher masteries. I never tried harpooning, and by the time I had joined BDO it was kind of a meme anyway. I had no idea it was something unlocked at guru fishing, there should really be more things like that. I have an old guildmate named Grave who is 100% a lifeskiller, but also a big PvPer. He min-maxes all of these different activities to stay stocked and ahead, but like you said, much of his progress comes down to being AFK at a tool. Most of my BDO time is also AFK. Lifeskilling is the "slow but steady" process to me, like the more I put into it, the stronger my eventual gains will amount to. But, it's just a spreadsheet game there. Yeah, bottom line, I hear you. We have all of these activities that could be a niche to different people, but they mostly come to dead ends as PA oversimplifies the game to cater to newer players... when complexity was a defining factor of BDO's appeal, to me and to others.

[@TrixMur]

wtf are you talking about bro xD???

[@PastorDanplaysboardgames]

Look man, welcome to bdo burn out . When you have almost all quests, knowledge, guru , and have played all the toons, what do you do. PvP - nope not on console, console too slow. I was doing a guild mission and some one tried to bully me out of an area , I was clearly over geared for them but I just let them keep killing me I have approximately 300 reserects I figured they would leave eventually. As node wars goes in and out of workability there will always be lifeskills. What is there to do around pvp lifeskills. You can always grind when lifeskills becomes boring. Grind to what end of you are fully geared, to maybe reach 65 to what reward like omg I’m so proud of you for wasting you real life away. I play assassins creed games and gems of war. I also belong to and run board game nights. The money I would be spending on black desert if they did content updates I instead buy board games. We sometimes cook, do potluck or bbq. I even play with my Rc car. The bdo burn out is real. Big hug man , hang in there pearl will reinvest in bdo once the other things fail.

[@TeddyTwighlite]

Bdo wouldn't be so bad if there was end game content to do other than the same mob grinding areas that you can just buy the items from the central market. I don't spend money on bdo anymore and the pearls I get come from the bdo monthly IF I get mentioned so the whole p2w aspect isn't a problem for me it's just once you hit Guru or 2k Mastery the money doesn't reflect the time and effort. Maybe if it felt more meaningful like idk getting your gs to +700 but it just feels dirty for lifeskilling. Pvp in bdo is not exactly thrilling when coming from other games where you're rewarded for killing a player, arena, etc. Here you get red and can just afk during pvp matches to get rewards. I've been playing older games more and the indie games because they aren't dumbing everything down for an agenda or more money. Not wrong that bdo burnout is really real

[@PastorDanplaysboardgames]

@@TeddyTwighlite try dark age of Camelot it adult pvp with more or better pvp than bdo. The end game content is only end game for a short time then it’s waiting game till next content update. Once the other games fail and another mmo comes out better than bdo , then we will get down to the core members and then cater to lifeskills. Daoc- dark age of Camelot, much older game. They have a core of about 2000 but only active for about 2-3 hours a day. They cater to the pvp players as that is their core. They had a once a year merchant that would sell top gear since market place in game crashed from lack of people. That merchant then became 2 times a year then 3 times and then 4 times. They made the game so easy for new and returning. Sounds familiar doesn’t it, bdo is giving away top gear, the enhancement system isn’t balanced. The market in game is slowing to a crawl on console. They dummied down the content and made everything easier. Daoc once they did all that and combined content items they then put timers on play to see if you are really there or if you are afk or a bot. To see their core numbers to sell. It Seems like bdo is heading that direction getting ready to sell. After getting sold there will be no more content just stability updates till done then nothing. I’m a bdo fan till they close it down.

[@eipebpeax]

Not veteran players, hardcore no lifers players..Games should be entertaiment not second job. BDO is already too old for mmo market, fourtunely for the game there is no MMO to beat it :) and we won't have any better game in the next 5 years

[@painbody4249]

Veteran players should have a line on how much they want to abuse new players, then the devs wouldn't have to intervene.

[@Andicus]

I think the thing that will determine whether BDO will last another 10 years or not, rests on Pearl Abyss's decision to upgrade Black Desert's engine. It'll all boil down to whether they think it's worth overhauling the game engine or not. I'd say it's 50/50, but I feel like they'd rather make Black Desert 2 with a better engine and have everyone start over and just kill our current Black Desert. I really _really_ hope that's not what happens (or at least if they do something like that, I hope they would let us transfer some if not all of our current stuff over to the new game. Sort of like how Runescape 1 upgraded to Runescape 2 which upgraded to Runescape 3, and we kept everything. It's a "new" game but not really. That kind of thing?) I hope they somehow integrate Crimson Desert's engine into Black Desert with enhanced tick-rate servers and a bunch of QoL improvements and features by courtesy of the new engine.. but... I don't know. Pearl Abyss doesn't exactly strike me as the type of company to care about Black Desert enough for a big overhaul like that. REMASTERED seems like the furthest they're willing to go, and that was already 6 YEARS AGO. 2018 is when REMASTERED came out! And there hasn't been a single core technical update to the game since then. Only adding/removing features or balancing. With Crimson Desert's development, they've already shown that they're fine looking away from Black Desert which scares me. Yes, they're doing a lot to improve Black Desert still, but I'm afraid they won't care about it enough to actually upgrade its engine and fix the _CORE_ issues that are holding it back from keeping up with the times. It's a dated game, not a dead game but a dated game, and it's been showing for a while now. REMASTERED is beautiful but barely "top-tier" graphics (again, that came in 2018). More than that, PVP is still a buggy mess that they need to completely overhaul (I mean desync and technical limitations, not class balancing), which is horrible for the game's health because half of BDO is about PVP. It's straight up a fighting game disguised as an open world MMO with extra MMO features.

[@TeddyTwighlite]

They've already said back in 2018 they're not able to use the newer engine for Black Desert nor will they try unfortunately

[@Andicus]

Okay after thinking about it, they probably can't use Crimson Desert's engine for Black Desert, as they're fundamentally different. They're completely different games. One's singleplayer, and the other is for an MMO. HOWEVER, I'm still hoping they could take what's good with Crimson Desert, take what concepts they have in Black Desert, and create a new engine for Black Desert to finally be the game it should be. Big dreams I know.

[@TeddyTwighlite]

@Andicus well you're not far off at all, it's a more improved black desert and since most players play bdo single player it just works out. Looking at the trailers and all you can see what's from bdo and improved

[@sethterwilliger9434]

BDO'S identity was always this not an easy game. You need to work for things here. Thats why it was great. Now they just hand everything to u

[@TeddyTwighlite]

Eeeeverything minus lifeskilling

[@scridernguyen]

If an MMO doesn't focus on getting new players, it's dead. Lost Ark has been bleeding players to the point of almost termination because the new players experience has been hostile. BDO has already been through this. If you want "the good old days", remember the 2015-2019/2020 era.

[@Aminiryku]

actualy quited bdo for the 3rd time after 2 weeks of trying to play it... cant cope with no real goal. I wont mention about community being few times more toxic than years ago. So yeah... i guess it is good ridance for me at this point, unless things really change in orginal's.

[@sethterwilliger9434]

Totally agree that BDO is reaching the point where they have dumbed it down to the point it isnt worth playing anymore

[@Omni_Shambles]

No.

[@cuernavaca_4070]

Don’t know - you sound like my grandpa about the good old days, before tv existed. Welcome to the modern world.

[@sethterwilliger9434]

says ever lazy give me everyhting now player

[@GIGA_AMD]

actually i will quit the game when dead god weapon will release cuz i know they preparing to make the game full p2w and like other dead gods armor f2p players cant do anything like p2w players

[@sethterwilliger9434]

game is less p2w then it ever has been

[@Wowaniac]

what ever happened to Dungeon content, like this brand new thing that NO ONE does, not even the vet players! honestly i feel like you vet players are treated way better then any of us newbies are. Especially you streamers. You guys all benefit from donations, uber gear and billions upon bills of silver an hour that none of us f2p and noobs are going to get to for the better part of a year if not more. You guys can all afford the pay walls and gated content that not everyone else can. Most of us see a price of 127 Billion for a single item and just uninstall the game right there while you guys dont even bat an eye. Hell most of us havnt even figured out until recently that Drak, Nova, and Corsair are all horrible for pve and PB doesn't give the slightest of fks about those classes, meanwhile you guys have been benefiting on them in pvp for god knows how long.