Are We All Cyborgs?

[@inspectorjavert2298]

Very cool to hear about the intersection between feminism/LBGQTIA and body hacking. Glad it is expanding to a larger and more diverse audience!

[@Minty1337]

the issue is that she isn't focusing on the actual science and development, she is worried about "diversity" and by diversity, as in worring more about women rather than men, but if gender wasn't mentioned, there would be more diversity

[@DevotedpupaVODs]

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[@Swablumaster]

1) Idea Channel is always (or at least almost always) about the philosophy that follows a development, not the science behind it. 2) If most of the discourse about something has come from the perspective of a certain group, and the same something affects other groups differently, those other group can add much more to the discourse by sharing their perspectives than they can by repeating the first group's perspective. Rose isn't excluding men, or discounting their perspective; she's just sharing the perspective of women because it hasn't been shared as much. The same goes for anyone (a few extremists exempted) trying to share any kind of non-straight-cis-rich-white-male perspective.

[@Minty1337]

***** but the issue is.... I hear the non-straight-cis-rich-white-male plenty... even without sjws... I don't know where they get that Idea but I have had no issue hearing about their perspective for my entire life.... but putting it in the spotlight makes it seem like they are equal in population or equal in what they want... like lots of the LGBT community gets attention and protection the both don't need or want

[@MonkeyPantsFace]

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[@AxelLeJeff]

For a long time, I have been telling people that the simple act of wearing clothing on a cold or sunny day qualifies them as 'cyborg'

[@Imaweaverboy]

Damn that's an interesting concept...

[@AxelLeJeff]

Well, like glasses, it's sort of a "ehhhh I dunno..." thing, in that it doesn't feel cutting edge and we've been doing it for so long, but there was a time when it was cutting edge. The artificial pelt, purpose designed to help us survive the elements. I think the most fascinating aspect is that it's technology we're still developing today as more high-tech methods and materials go into creating our clothes to ensure comfort no matter the conditions while allowing us to customize our bodies in some 'rudimentary' way.

[@SockPupet]

Nice way to make the term redundant... if it is not physically integrated into the body... such as artificial limbs, cochlear implants, synthetic organs, not a cyborg... stop perverting language for semantic pseudo philosophical wank...

[@AxelLeJeff]

Sock Pupet1984 Oh, did the special little snowflake install an RFID chip and now think he's a god among men? Sowwy to huwt youw feewings. When I originally came to that conclusion, the prevalent definition was simply "Technologicaly assisted life-form." So jog on.

[@SockPupet]

Jeffman12 What the hell are you on? Technology assisted is being bloody human... we are tool users, it makes the word meaningless. You are the special snowflake here, this is the what you morons do to every word... then again, projection is part of the pathology...

[@pingpong607]

Short answer:Kinda. Long answer:Kinda.

[@pbsideachannel]

medium answer, tho?

[@hollandscottthomas]

Kinda sorta.

[@Skip6235]

long answer: kiiiiindaaaaa

[@andrewmcilveen4917]

Medium answer: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinda_(Doctor_Who)

[@logical-functionsmodel9364]

Long answer: It depends

[@loickittentine1584]

im distracted by how cool her chair is

[@ruolbu]

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[@DevotedpupaVODs]

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[@olbones4863]

The fuck are all these pluses?

[@KristopherCarlyle]

I'm distracted by that gash in her arm

[@eruno_]

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[@choupuppy42]

The first thought that popped into my head was the Deus Ex video game series and their whole exploration into trans-humanism. I found it interesting as to how the Deus Ex games showed how society dealt with whole human augmentation debate, with some people prescribing to views of the necessity of preserving human purity and humanism by rejecting augmentation and others who saw it as opportunity to advance human potential by pushing past the physical and mental biological limitations our bodies present us with. The second thought I almost immediately had afterwards was the whole Ship of Theseus paradox and how if you replaced each part of yourself piece by piece, until you none of the original biological you was left, would "you" still be "YOU" even if on a physically and mentally functional level you were the exact same. That actually reminds me of a Futurama episode where Hermes decides to start upgrading his body to be a more efficient bureaucrat and eventually ends up with an entirely robot body by the end of the episode. However, I believe at that point he realizes that he's traded his humanity in the pursuit of perfection and that such a trade off is not worth having.

[@MirandaStreeter]

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[@SethPaxton]

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[@HiddenDragon555]

On the topic of the Ship of Theseus, the human body already replaces every cell in the body (with some notable exceptions) every 7 years or so. So it could be said that augmentation is only different in the speed and drasticness of the changes of the body. We are already regularly replaces planks and adding new coats of paint so to speak, completely rebuilding the mast isn't that different.

[@nicoleboudreau2646]

Well actually it doesn't replace every cell, but an amount of matter equal to your body mass. there are quite a few tissues such as nervous and muscle that really get replaced at all.

[@GKCanman]

Ok, well do the proteins in those cells get replaced? I would venture yes. If that's the case the Ship of Theseus known as our body does still get replaced, just in smaller pieces at a time.

[@Bedroom_Punk]

The cyborg is the human being who is offered the choice to augment their circumstances via technology and takes that choice. My problem with augmented humanity and humans seeking liberation from the constraints of gender, race, religion, sex, disability, etc. is that progress and escape from dire circumstances is afforded only to those who can pay. The commercialization of that escape creates a possible future where access to the freedom of choice comes at a cost. There will be patent holders. There will be large corporations. For the very same reason why science and technology are not pure, I fear the future where the rich will afford not only the luxury of controlling their circumstances through exploitation, but will be granted access to the technology that will prolong their existence. What good is having great advances in technology if Donald Trump will be first in line to grab the Iron Man suit?

[@MirandaStreeter]

Cyberpunk in a nutshell. :)

[@RozzamaTRON]

You could make the exact same argument about privatized healthcare, though. The ship already sailed on that problem, way before we started talking about cyborgs and augmented humanity.

[@hollandscottthomas]

Can someone please fan-edit Trump into the Iron Man movies plz?

[@MoonSafariFilms]

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[@hollydusomelau1642]

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[@chrismcdonald5118]

I really liked this video! It would great to see you do more interviews!

[@pbsideachannel]

Thanks, Chris! We're hoping to do more talking-to-experts in the future, so it's nice to hear you enjoyed this one. :thumbsup:

[@sirVlinky]

I dont see that having a degree or whatever you deem as qualification is important for this video. I propose to you that the idea channel is one that deals primarily with perspective rather than the subject itself. For example, Rose did not present to you what a cyborg is, rather what she and the community she is a part of sees a cyborg as. Even when mike does a video solo, he really only provides perspective on other people's writing. He isnt writing any of these works themselves, he is posing ideas of his own (sometimes contrary to popular belief) that he believes will spark interest within his viewership. There is a reason he starts with "Here's an idea:" for every video. These videos are not based on facts directly, rather interpretations of them.

[@chrismcdonald5118]

+Alessiottavo she may be an expert in the philosophical co text of cyborgs, rather than the science of it. Expertise is not closed to all professions but science.

[@chrismcdonald5118]

+Aidan Rogers couldn't have said it better myself. Preach!

[@MonkeyPantsFace]

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[@LegacyFilmAus]

I always think of the modern smartphone as making us all cyborgs. The fact that I have a piece of technology that can assist my finding of information within seconds and how the modern brain changes to adapt to that change, not having to retain these facts make the smartphone cyborg-ian. Then again, every time I use that to say that we are all cyborgs one of my friends will pull out their positively ancient phone.

[@pbsideachannel]

Yeah! We talked a little about the smartphone as a kind of "mental prosthesis", but it didn't make it into the cut. I think it's a really interesting idea - it doesn't pass my Cyborg Smell Test because its not an *embedded technology*, or whatever, but if I learned anything from talking with Rose it's that my Cyborg Smell Test is maybe a bit... off.

[@cadenglass1387]

+PBS Idea Channel I dream of the day where the common man has the knowledge and skills to makes their own tech. Will it have higher crime? Maybe. Will it be an end to a lot of our old concepts? Maybe. But will it be cool? YES!!!!!!!!!!!

[@olleicua]

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[@overwhelminglydecayingasta3540]

That's a very interesting thought, but I think that smartphones making us cyborgs on the "presenting information" level is a bit problematic. After all, books also present all sorts of information, and society has throughout time adapted to the paradigm of books as THE information source rather that oral knowledge. And yet, we would never think of books as making us cyborg. However, I do agree that smartphones are cyborg-making, but in a sense that they are a continuation of ourselves, knowing information about US that we don't remember: do you know every single place you've been to, every single contact you have, every message you've sent? Well, your phone definitely does. Such a level of proximity as never been seen before in human History, and in my opinion it's what truly makes smartphones something more that mere tools, it makes them part of us. In this sense, we are truly cyborg.

[@LegacyFilmAus]

That's a good point. Yeah, the distinction I would make to books is that your smartphone is often in arms reach and can contain far more information than a book you might carry with you. But yeah, the personal information angle that you take is certainly more concretely cyborg-ian.

[@Timewarpiaman]

Or are we dancer?

[@keukenkastje05]

My sign is vital, my hands are cold.

[@pbsideachannel]

And I'm on my knees Looking for the answer Are we human?

[@Timewarpiaman]

PBS Idea Channel Or are we dancer?

[@darkjaden2]

Pay my respects to grace and virtue Send my condolences to good..

[@Baraborn]

Yes. This is your reward.

[@thatthinker]

I'm transgender and on hormones. Pretty sure I'm body hacking and loving it. Loving it a lot more braces.

[@JazzyJacksJokeShack]

Your mind hacking... but I think you typed a few things wrong...

[@thatthinker]

What do you mean by that?

[@indigohalf]

Me too! I've been thinking lately about posthumanism and being trans. I recently messaged my friends like "You guys, I'm an augmented human. I'm like Spider-Man only instead of climbing walls I'm getting facial hair." Definitely way better than braces.

[@johngaete2413]

i have been taking pills everyday for the last 6 years because i'm allergic to dust, and my body have changed while in treatment, my nasal membranes are smallers now (i believe that is their name on english), this will make me a cyborg too like you?, everyone that use pills periodically is a cyborg too if it change the structure of your body?

[@thatthinker]

I think saying, "You take pills that change your body therefor you are a cyborg" is still kinda too much to say. I prefer "I'm taking pills that change my body, so I feel that I can be called a cyborg." If I remember from the video correctly, there's a point where they talk about part of being a body hacker/cyborg is self identification as one. The line between Obviously Cyborg and Cyborg by Logic and Self-Identification is kinda hard to pin down. If I get breast implants, does that make me more cyborg? Is using a patch more cyborg than using pills? I don't know if I'm comfortable answering these other than how I would feel in my personal case. I think calling someone a cyborg isn't a thing we want to do yet...

[@paradoxacres1063]

Well...we all *_should_* be Cyborgs.

[@thomaster8870]

I am a Cyborg that can temporarily remove parts of his body. If only for a short while before withdrawal-like symptoms start to show....

[@thatguydownthestreat]

anyone whos ever had something cut off like a finger and had it reattached by doctors can say the same thing

[@thomaster8870]

thatguydownthestreat​ I was referring to mouse and keyboard and how they are attached to my body for more than half of every day.

[@thatguydownthestreat]

Thomaster шлепанцы heh thought you were being more literally and i was thinking along the lines of essentially blood withdrawal

[@Jakegothicsnake]

Oh yeah?? Well what if some of us DON'T WANT to??

[@faerieprincess1232]

People being mad at feminism in a video about cyborgs when cyborg scholarship began as a socialist-feminist critique of identity smdh...

[@MirandaStreeter]

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[@faerieprincess1232]

A major point of cyborg studies is the confusion of identities and firm boundaries, so trying to separate the concepts of "human" from "gender" seems like a misstep when talking about cyborgs. Listen again to the parts of the video discussing what exactly a cyborg is, and I think you'll find that it's impossible to focus on a "just... cyborg part of things" as there is no conception of cyborgism as separate from conceptions of gender, or race, or medical practice, or a number of other things. The same, I would argue, goes for the conception of "human." There is no human devoid of these characteristics and conceptualisations. I'd recommend giving Donna Hatheway's "A Cyborg Manifesto" a read if you're into cyborg studies, it's mentioned in the video and is, from what I can tell, the essential text of the discipline.

[@crazykenna]

I think bringing disability into the equation makes the possibilities much more interesting: like a pace maker or an automated insulin pump for diabetes. It makes you change how you define bodily normality, I like that.

[@karlputz6721]

I'll leave these two Douglas Adams quotes here for no particular reason: “I've come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies: 1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works. 2. Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it. 3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.” "Technology is stuff that doesn't work yet." The reason glasses and pacemakers seem like they're not technology is that they (by and large) work. Thus, we don't consider ourselves as having meshed with technology when we use them.

[@1Rekuiem]

People come to a channel literally called IDEA channel and get mad when it has ideas on it instead of cold science.

[@Twewy13]

But since no one actually lives up to "the standard body", can one even claim such a thing exists?

[@killerexe007]

The title of "human holotype" is currently unclaimed, the guy who was supposed to be the human holotype ended up not being eligible because of syphilis. So it is save to say that right now there is no "standard human"

[@ArgoIo]

It's just a matter of norm and a guideline for industrial manufacturing. May it be the proportions of clothing, the size of doors or dosage for medication. Especially the last one can be tricky, as some pharmaceuticals are mainly tested on male adults. This has lead to problematic cases, such as unexpected side effects for women and children.

[@maxximumb]

You could just use the term unmodified body, in terms of the division between cyborg and standard body.

[@transgouine]

there doesn't necessarily need to be a single "standard human body" in physical existence. a theoretical one can provide us a baseline well enough to be able to refer to people via degrees of separation from it. archetypes can exist, even if they do not have physical form.

[@transgouine]

and that really depends on what you think the human archetype is. it can differ from person to person, depending on the people that they interact with the most.

[@discountconsulting]

Now consider that natural living tissues are machine components that have been designed naturally through evolution to self-assemble, self-maintain, and self-repair, without requiring input from human technicians (i.e. they are perfectly automated, for the most part, when used correctly and not abused). The risk of normalizing natural living tissues as something boringly different from artificial technologies is that we miss out on understanding how the micromechanisms of biological processes really are nano-tech in its most tried-and-true form. Chlorophyll, for example, is a photovoltaic cell at the macromolecular level. ATP is a fuel-cell process built into living muscle tissue. Animal bodies literally have combustion motors built into them that utilize their own waste-heat to optimize the motor's operation. These are things we cannot achieve with artificial combustion motors, and when you look at how small living motors can be built, how the self-maintain and self-repair, it is astounding. And that doesn't even begin to address the fact that these natural living tissues have been designed through evolution to function sustainably within the margins of planetary energy/water/carbon/oxygen/nitrogen cycles. I.e. they are tuned to co-manage their own fuel-supply in a way that doesn't undermine that fuel supply in the long term.

[@jondreauxlaing]

The concept of cyborg concerns me within the context of neoliberalism. Toward the end, you mentioned some pretty mundane "be my best self" examples like calling your mom more and reading more books. A smartphone can help you do those things, in maybe in a way that kind of makes you a cyborg when you offload mental bandwidth onto an electronic device like reminding you to call your mom, or setting time in your schedule to read. However, packaged into that smartphone is a TON of privacy and security concerns, as well as intellectual property concerns. I wonder if I get a future version of Google Glass implanted in my eyes, whose property is that? What if I go and decide to reverse engineer the thing implanted in my eye. Is that a violation of intellectual property? With a smartphone it certainly is, but I can always throw out my smartphone, and still be me. If I'm a cyborg, that piece of technology has become a part of my body, and, in a way, my identity. I think there will come a moment in this "cyborg revolution" where there is a clash between intellectual property and bodily autonomy. Personally, I'm rooting for autonomy, but I doubt that will be the victor if we continue to produce and distribute within the ideological frameworks of capitalism. I think it's best if we can keep cyborg technology open source only. Lastly, I'm not much of a podcast guy, but if Rose started a KZbin channel, I would watch it.

[@TheWordsmythe]

There's definitely an important conversation to be had here that ties back to the John Deere tractor-hacking stuff that the channel has covered.

[@buffdaddddddddy]

finally a comment that is actually dealing with the real impt shit instead of crying about how we should just talk about cyborgs as something neutral and existing in a vacuum

[@caitlinflaws6468]

What about Trans bodies or women of color as constantly subversive? Like why trans people could be considered cyborgian but aren't and women of color most likely can't attempt to be cyborgian (as in getting IUDs or affording the phones that have period tracking apps) because of socioeconomic statuses? I wish class was addressed way more in this episode, because not everyone can afford a chip in their hand or antenna implants. Glad you mentioned Donna Harraway though! I hated reading her paper when I was in school lol.

[@sirVlinky]

I entirely agree, but unfortunately this is the internet. Videos must remain a reasonable length and maintain to the primary topic due to their duration. Near the end of the episode Rose said she was excited to see the idea of "body hacking" being spread to less confined groups of people. Ideally this includes people of colour as well as anyone who isnt happy with their body. (aka everyone.)

[@caitlinflaws6468]

As someone who comes from a sector of academia (Women's Studies) that is based off of constantly critiquing and constantly deconstructing either pieces of media or social structures in order to point out injustice or anything else, I'm mostly just surprised that Rose didn't say anything about Trans people because she said so much about feminism. Hopefully she'll write something about accessibility or another scholar will!

[@DaftAnime]

I feel like she addressed the concern of bodyhacking as an ostensibly white male trend adequately. I mean we can't expect every conversation to also be about marginalised groups. The focus of the video was less socially inclined, I feel, and that's okay to me:P

[@TXWatson]

I briefly thought about the idea of transness as cyborgian but pretty close to immediately dropped it: while I am a trans person and I also identify with the term "cyborg," my strong intuitive sense is that trans bodies as cyborg bodies, specifically because they're trans, would feel to many trans people like a way of affirming the idea that they have a "real" embodied gender -- like the short-lived asterisk in trans*, I feel like it sounds good from a position of good faith but it would end up feeling like a narrative of exclusion.

[@P4INKiller]

Either you're an insane person, or the most brilliant troll I've ever come across. I don't know wether I should be frightened or proud.

[@String.Epsilon]

I think the discussion about cyborgs and what even is "cyborgian" will be interesting to follow. We will have more and more technology in the "cyborg spectrum" and it will probably get a lot more widespread to use this tech. Putting a pacemaker in the same ballpark as fully functional artificial limbs or even military grade body enhancements (ala shadowrun and ghost in the shell) just isn't that useful. But we will have to categorize and sort all the tech, because we will need laws and regulation for the protection of the users and to solve ethic problems. And we somehow have to tell the TSA not to freak out.

[@seanrea550]

the cyborg spectrum would probably run off level of recognizes augmentation. the low end being tools carried or worn normally everyday to direct implants of varying amounts

[@SunnyTheGentleFox]

Good point!

[@SickleRose]

One thought that came to mind regarding the "cyborg spectrum" is level of controllability. The lower end would be things that you can't control voluntarily (like the IUDs mentioned in the episode), which seem less intuitively cyborgian and the higher end being things like prosthetic limbs, which you can control with your body or mind, and seem to be more classically cyborg.

[@String.Epsilon]

SickleRose Good point. I think the axis you can plot "cyborgian" on are: * Controllability (see above) * Restoring of body function enhancement of body function (glasses vs. artificial eye with nightvision and zoom) * The grade of technology (a peg leg vs. highly engineered athlete prosthetic) * Active vs. inactive implants (pacemaker vs. IUDs)

[@seanrea550]

the grade of technology would likely be a function of the scale along with the level of augmentation as a percentage of functions supplemented in coordination with a list of the supplemented functions. 1: controlled v passive. how much influence you have on the device. 2: restoration v augmentation. how much does the devices add to the base functions. these first two i can see but i am not understanding the 3rd as much the examples given are both sentinel implants that are designed to maintain and prevent. where implants like a cochlear implant or an artificial eye restore to some degree sensory function. a third aspect could be implant/ prostheses function. what is the devices designed to do. this would leave you with two axis a scale and a definition of function.

[@joelproko]

I would argue that for something to be cyborgian, it needs two satisfy two conditions: 1. It needs to be, at least partly, *inside* your body 2. It needs to provide a function other, non-modified human bodies don't have Therefore: - normal glasses: fail both conditions - skates & google glass: fail first condition - pacemaker & anchored braces: fail second condition - tatoos: fail second condition (you could argue that it contains a silent message, but that message cannot change without more tatooing) - contraceptive implants: fail second condition (only removes a function, does not add a new one; or if you argue it does add a function, it's one pre-pubescent humans already have) - bone screws, false teeth, medicinal implants: fail second condition - voice boxes: fail second condition (until their technology arrives at a point where they would be able to imitate other people's voices) - RFID chips, surgically implanted AR lenses: both conditions satisfied - robotic replacement limbs: either both conditions satisfied or fails second condition (though generally most such artificial limbs are less capable than natural ones, they often add such things as increased heat resistance)

[@workethicrecords5901]

as far as limbs go, if someone is born without said limbs, isn't that something that paticular human body doesn't have?

[@MoonSafariFilms]

Not sure I agree, but this is an interesting take.

[@joelproko]

***** Honestly, I arrived at those two rules by working back from what my intuition said did or didn't make someone a cyborg. The first condition was easy: Nobody would claim that wearing shoes or clothes makes you a cyborg, yet it would make you one according to the definition the guest speaker used (it makes things possible that otherwise wouldn't be, like walking over certain types of terrain, increased resistance to cold and heat, etc.). In a similar way, using a hammer doesn't make you a cyborg, nor does driving a car. What all those things have in common is that they aren't part of ones body and thus can be discarded at a moment's notice. The second condition was trickier and would thus probably be more contended: I think everyone would agree that you don't become a cyborg just because you have a piece of shrapnel or a bullet trapped inside your body. Mostly everyone would also agree that if you break a bone and it gets screwed back together, those screws don't make you a cyborg either. People with contact lenses aren't usually considered cyborgs either (though I'd consider them already covered by the first condition anyways). Nor does taking medicine make you a cyborg. The status of pacemakers is probably more contended, but most people would not think of someone with a pacemaker as a cyborg, and the same goes for people who had to have their lenses replaced by artificial ones due to some kind of illness or defect (probably because they're subpar compared to natural ones). What all of these things have in common is that, while they have become part of a person's body, they don't give the person any superhuman abilities, that is, abilities which the body of an average healthy person doesn't already have. In contrast, someone with a built-in gun or built-in extra senses like augmented reality would definitiely fit anyone's definition of a cyborg. Lastly, it makes no sense to call someone who trained themselves to do something, who acquired an ability by training their body and brain, a cyborg. Otherwise, if the definition were to include training as something that might make you a cyborg (maybe "anything that is part of you, including training, that makes you capable of doing something no non-cyborg can do"), everyone (including newborns) would be considered a cyborg and the term would become useless: Starting with every human not enhanced by anything other than an ability and who is the best at doing something. Let's pick running first: Usain Bolt is clearly extremely fast for a human, way faster than the average person, partially due to training. Therefore, he must be a cyborg. Now the previously second-fastest non-cyborg human is the fastest one. He is now capable of running faster than any other non-cyborg human, partially through training, therefore he must be a cyborg. And so on, until we arrive at a baby just learning to walk: It can walk, partially because it "trained" itself with crawling and probably seeing adults walk. Other non-cyborgs can't walk (the baby we looked at before was able to walk better than this one, and part of that ability came from "training"), therefore it must be a cyborg. We can now switch to other abilities, such as face and voice recognition. There will always be a a group of people who are significantly better at some skill than the average non-cyborg and who have at least part of that skill from training. This even applies to trained skills like echolocution by some blind people. While the average person can't exactly ecolocute, they can at least infer from the acoustics of a room whether it's a grand cathedral or a small closet, even if finer details are beyond them. That being said, people who are capable of echolocution are rare, so a body implant that gave a person echolocution would make a person with such an implant a cyborg, because it's a skill the average person doesn't have.

[@torrinmaag5331]

This is very interesting as a practical definition for cyborg. However, I do see it having a few pitfalls, the first of which is cyborg augmenting natural functions (strength, speed, et cetera). Perhaps a change for the definition of the second requirement? What I like about this definition is that it's specific enough to be relevant, and simple enough that everyone can understand it. While perhaps shutting down philosophical discussion of what makes a cyborg, it's a good definition to contextualize public debate over cyborgs, and we do need one of those. If anyone can claim using a hammer makes you a cyborg, the word, and thus the discussion, becomes meaningless.

[@Naughtynerdy]

How do you feel exoskeletons, or tech like the dollhouse mind printing would fit into your conditions? :)

[@PeregrineHawthorn]

Ever since I've started using/making my own prosthetic limbs, I've identified as a cyborg. To me, being a cyborg is about becoming more human through the use of our technology and to better allow people (ALL of them) to become what they believe they should be.

[@SquawkingStone]

My only qualm is with this minor side comment that kind of got under my skin because it's a semantic nitpick I have pretty often. When Rose mentions that "gender is a choice" that's simply untrue. As a trans person, gender identity is not a choice, it's something hard wired into your biology. However, gender expression is a choice, one decides how they want to display and perform their gender. It sounds a bit nit picky but I think it's important to clarify the difference so as not to perpetuate harmful notions about gender identity and gender expression.

[@matthewheimbecker9055]

As soon as Rose spoke, I was like, "I know her!" I've been listening to Meanwhile in the Future for a short while now and I love it. Great work on this episode everyone!

[@Nictator42]

Human bodies are already machines. We're highly sophisticated machines utilizing a particular class of chemical compounds to facilitate our own construction and repair. There is no "pure" human form and there is much room for improvement. The entire concept of a cyborg comes about simply because we humans prefer to think of our biological structure as being special, or unique, or in a class all its own. Long story short, I think that once we realize that the difference between bioengineering and "regular" engineering is essentially arbitrary, we can hit a technological renaissance that could catapult us into being one of Michio Kaku's Type 1 civilizations.

[@jezz2k]

No thanks. Nobody is going to cut me open and replace my organs with Borg crap. We're organic creatures, just like all of the other animals on this planet - would you call them machines too? Really? Even worms? Come on dude.

[@herrmanselcher1632]

lmao his "sure" always sounds sarcastic af

[@JoaDrath]

*I* define a cyborg as a person with some kind of man-made object that is either inside the body or on the skin which serves a purpose. This does not include clothing and shoes, but includes watches and glasses.

[@jaewilliss5407]

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[@seanrea550]

why would clothing not count. clothing offers just as much of an augment to us as a watch or glasses. this would be even more apparent for harsh conditions where specialized clothing is a must for safety. the space suits, wet suits or other supportive harnesses are just as much tools as a watch or a phone. as for boots or shoes, these are a standardized set of augmentation in developed regions that we think it strange that people would go without them. try walking barefoot over course ground or on hardtop and you will note an advantage that is provided.

[@JoaDrath]

Sean Rea Clothing is more a convenience which makes us have to spend less resources to stay warm. Also if you never wore shoes you'd eventually get hard enough skin that it wouldn't be a problem.

[@seanrea550]

for comfortable temperature ranges, clothing can be considered a convenience, however for extremes of heat or cold there are necessities. there are thresholds that we cannot handle with out additional gear. we go outside of these levels we are in danger of harm. as for footwear, the longer you go barefoot the tougher your feet get, however footwear does more than just pad against abrasion and impact, it serves as a buffer to heat or cold and acts as a buffer to other hazards. depending on the type worn there are diffrent advantages.

[@maxximumb]

A good definition. The watch allows the individual a better control over time. Something an unaided human cannot do naturally well. I'm tempted to include medication. You are artificially manipulating your body chemistry to improve or repair function. Or is it as Rose indicated, once the medication process becomes automated either electronically or mechanically, does it become a cybernetic component? I could argue that I use the alarm on my watch, to remind me to take my medication, so is this series of actions and interactions with tech, a simplified or primitive cyborg adaptation?

[@mysticwolf11]

I really like these more conversational-style videos. I think when there's an open exchange of ideas between two or more people in a given video rather than one person relaying information to the masses (as is the typical PBS Idea Channel formula), It just feels a lot more organic in terms of idea generation and exchange. It brings me back to what was discussed in the But Wait: How DOES The Media Tell You What To Think? video that was posted earlier this month (was it this month? I don't remember. time bleeds for me sometimes), and how people are conduits for different ideas even though they may just be relaying what they found from another source. Great video!

[@fernandadias42]

I am a transitioning transgender woman, and I do believe that asolutely makes me a body hacker and maybe a cyborg too? Also, I don't agree that gender is a choice, it's very much not for me anyway, and I guess you guys should have talked at least a liiitle bit more about transgender people since this episode was all about transhumanism and stuff.

[@mars1teen]

Yeah, they kind of spoke too little about that. While gender identity is definetely not a choice, gender expreson is and I believe that's what they meant, that people get to choose wether to transition or not. I wish they had spoken a little bit more about that as to not create confussion.

[@AphidKirby]

I think she was referring to the choice of transitioning, there's a lot of trans people that regardless of their identity choose not to go through the gender-change procedure. their trans identity does not gets less invalidated by this, but their choice remained not to perform surgical procedures on their bodies

[@TheCyberwoman]

Ya, that comment stuck out to me too, I had a bit of a gut reaction to it. But I came to the same conclusion as others, that she was referring to the choice of transitioning, and expressing gender through the manipulation of the body. This video was mostly about choices in regard to the physical. I doubt she thinks gender of the mind and emotion is any more a choice than orientation, or anything else innate.

[@CiscoLopez]

First of all I loved this episode and thought the feminist discourse on bodies and their relationship with categories was super necessary for this idea of cyborg we're looking for. I think it helps us question what we take for granted in our ideas of natural/default bodies as humans. I think because of the associations already held with the term cyborg, that body-hacker will really end up being the term we use for what we mean by cyborg in the context of this discussion. Especially because it gets after that desire that is specific to the group of people, who want to make their body better. This could mean it being more comfortable for them, more convenient, maybe even more fashionable.

[@qtheplatypus]

I wish that there would have been a mention of cyborg feminism. It seemed that it gelled well with the topic at hand and also is the feminism with the most kick ass name.

[@seanrea550]

what counts for the base level, what one is capable of achieving or having without augmentation. for each individual this will be diffrent. for example, just having a watch or a phone on or near your person at all times grants a level of augmentation where lacking these tools reduces your resources. the use of implants keeps things permanently at hand but attachments or worn gear can also qualify to a cybernetic state to some degree. take amputees with prosthetics. while the prosthetics main function is to restore base mobility, depending on what they pick it can further enhance it, even still with the amputation, their base state has been reduced to require the need of augmentation in order to function at their former base level. where something as simple as a worn device can provide rapid access to information or communication at a glance or with a short access period. with implants to connect to these devices further control and more rapid access could be obtained but it would not change the access that is already present.

[@MirandaStreeter]

+

[@Neuroticmancer]

genuinely curious, why do americans rarely mention classism in the same list of racism and sexism?

[@Neuroticmancer]

like augmentation seems way more of a class issue than sex or race issue?

[@soleilcrona1390]

Because they're simpler problems for simpler American minds.

[@sleutelj]

Because real solutions to classism are predicated on real solutions to sexism and racism.

[@Neuroticmancer]

+Joshua Sleutel I'd say that the inverse of your statement is true. Racism and sexism stem from classism

[@Neuroticmancer]

+Kei well I guess, but couldn't that be said about most countries? Also a country founded by slave owners makes me presume racism is pretty innate to America

[@matheusmota134]

As an Achaeology student it's really interenting to discuss the idea of technology as communication technology or digital/mechanical technology because for us lithic or potery are all tech. Every time I think about cyborgs I remember Bruno Latour's On technical mediation in which he talks about how objects and people "fuse" via mediation and are constantly in a state of hybridism with non humam actants.

[@yat282]

She cares way too much about social issues. She can't answer a simple question without making it about women, or other minority groups. Those things DO have a place to be talked about, but it shouldn't be everything.

[@FerzatAlchayah]

OMG! Two of my fav people speaking about the future and cyborgs! amazing!

[@99thTuesday]

Rose early on specified that Animals can be considered technology. So I guess my question is: If someone needs a heart valve transplant and gets a cow or pig valve are they as much a cyborg as someone who gets a mechanical/artificial valve. What if they used your own stem cells to grow a heart valve with your genetic make-up. Would this person be as much a cyborg as the others even if they are still entirely 'themselves' and/or 'pure human' a la Ship of Theseus. - Just a thought I had.

[@JSuperstar20]

This was a VERY interesting interview. Good job y'all!

[@the_snobot]

One of the more common sci-fi tropes relating to cyborgs seems to be this idea of voluntary amputations of otherwise-healthy tissue and the installation of corresponding "upgraded" parts (be they limbs, eyes, kidneys, etc...). Obviously right now a prosthetic arm is nowhere near as capable as the fleshy, natural arms we come standard with, but as technology improves and prosthetics eventually become perceived as "upgrades," will people start voluntarily amputating their limbs or having their eyes replaced just because technology is better than what nature gave them? And seeing as the medical community of today has a strong stance against unnecessary surgeries, what sorts of guidelines and regulations will we see introduced to either curb or encourage this sort of behaviour? Will certain countries with looser "cyborg laws" become havens for cyber/medical-tourism, where people can pay to upgrade their bodies in ways that are illegal in their home countries?

[@bigooft9521]

the idea of prosthetics becoming fashionable is something that does actually concern me as a person with prosthetics, because i'm worried about how accessible it will be to people who actually need them. like, i'm privileged in that i am pretty well off financially, and paying for my prosthetic, which i need to be a functional and independent human being, was still not an insignificant amount of money there tends to be a very romanticised view of prosthetics from people who don't have them in general, even now. like i've had friends who have said they're "jealous" of my arm, because they have no idea of the limitations of it or the psychological effects of amputation. so i do worry that even before prosthetic limbs become an "improvement" (which i'm also skeptical of, because it will honestly be limited to people rich enough to pay), people will want them to replace healthy tissue, without properly considering the impact they have on actual life it's not that i'm against body modification, because i have tattoos and piercings up the wazoo, and i've seriously considered cosmetic surgery and chip implantation. i do think cosmetic amputation will eventually become a thing, if it gets classed under cosmetic and/or plastic surgery rather than anything medical. but i do worry about how a fashion for it will change how people who undergo medical amputation will be viewed

[@MoonSafariFilms]

+

[@the_snobot]

My initial reaction to the idea of cosmetic prosthetics is that they might increase overall availability and decrease the cost for people who need them as a necessity of life. Right now high-end prosthetics are a fairly narrow market with low demand and high prices. But if there is widespread (or as widespread as voluntary amputation can become) demand for prosthetics the supply would, by necessity increase. With that increase in supply, might one not expect either an overall reduction in cost? Or we could see the introduction of a more tiered approach, where functional, entry-level prosthetics (that are on-par or slightly better than the original organic parts) are cheap and widely-available, while a high-end market emerges for super high-end devices made from exotic materials and designed by artists. Personally, I'm not convinced that drastic cosmetic amputations are likely to take off in the mainstream. The pain and recovery period seems like a pretty big deterrent. Perhaps what's more likely is internal prosthetics/augmentations made to enhance the function of the body. These would likely start off as therapeutic implants (like pacemakers of today), but eventually might we not see artificial filters to improve kidney and liver function, or some kind of oxygen exchanger that augments the lungs?

[@hollandscottthomas]

Interesting point, do you draw a distinction when a prosthesis is attached to the nervous system as we're beginning to see examples of?

[@SerifSansSerif]

What about genetic/biological "upgrades"? Ones that might not need amputations?

[@MrGrokNRoll]

I love your new interview/dialogue format and hope there'll be more of it.

[@LANBobYonson]

She has a scrape on her arm O_O

[@SuzakuX]

Literal body hack.

[@RDMracer]

I think she commutes by bicycle

[@agentwashingtub9167]

No, the first one.

[@otakuribo]

When the Ghost on the Shell singularity hits; I'm so uploading into a cyberbody. And I will idealize and edit it and then, FINALLY, reality will catch up with MMORPGs and have a character editor. the dream

[@Twiggierjet]

Guys, calm down, this channel examines ideas, they will eventually end up examining ideas you don't like, no reason to accuse them of being part of the sjw conspiracy.

[@Twiggierjet]

Carlos A. Guevara You might be thinking of conspiracy theories. A conspiracy can be completely real.

[@FF-qo6rm]

This was an awesome and great episode concept. Nice way of mixing it up. Nice job.

[@KatieAngelWitch]

So... all trans women who get on HRT count as cyborgs? Because if yes then holy shit.

[@nerdlife6676]

As soon as she said "upgrade" I immediately thought of the Cybermen. Oh dear...

[@alexschneider1886]

I'd say we are all cyborgs. Even without a cybernetic enhancement, we have things like glasses and prostheses. I dont know about most people, but I consider my glasses and watch a part of me. I need them to function in daily life, and carry them with me 24/7. Even our smart phones could count as an augmentation. With all of these things, we have permanent access to improved eye sight, controllable birth control (like mentioned in the video), and even the internet. Im rambling now, so I'll just leave it on that you dont need a permanent addition to be a cyborg

[@alexschneider1886]

+Markus Brorson GiTS logic isnt the only meaning of "cyborging". They even specifically talked about body hacks in the video. Its about augmenting your body. someone with prosthetic legs is still a cyborg

[@isaach1402]

+

[@seanrea550]

the challenge is recognizing where the threshold starts for being a cyborg. most people today atleast fall under an augmented status with just the tools they carry.

[@seanrea550]

yes, they have gone beyond there natural abilities by the use of tools.

[@mars1teen]

Yes, you don't have to agree. Please let me suggest you to consider this approach. The technologies that we use most of the time become a necessary part of our life. Like you said, there are different levels of being a cyborg. Glasses may not be implanted on to us, but some people only take them out before going to sleep or to shower. It's not that different from having a detachable prosthetic limb. It's not really killing the word cyborg as much as expanding it and helping us realize how we have slowly been taking steps to more advanced forms of cyborgs.

[@brockmckelvey7327]

I'm a little surprised that you didn't mention Deus Ex or other Cyberpunk media. I mean, I imagine that Ms. Eveleth gets that a lot, but the entire time I was watching this video my mind kept going "Ask about all the Sci-Fi things!!!"

[@Minty1337]

I don't care about your gender studies degree! I want new legs so I can walk again!

[@lunazeitlyn8308]

As someone who personally has plans to build augmentations for myself and I actively want to become more integrated with digital technology. I consider my smartphone a sense close to hearing or seeing, and I want to take steps to integrate that further. I also subscribe to the theory that we are coming closer to the end of biological evolution and entering an age of technological evolution.

[@yourguysheppy]

Man, I can't wait for the passive-aggressive part of the comment response video defending the pushing of feminist rhetoric. Otherwise the topics discussed were thought-provoking, to say the least.

[@CDeruiter5963]

Another great read on this topic is Natural Born Cyborgs by Andy Clark.

[@roidroid]

Woa you mentioned Monster Factory. my good good internet boys!

[@EbyKat]

Horse Ghost 2016

[@Camtoons]

I've always felt like computers were external organs, and smartphones even moreso. They're so intrinsic to how we communicate and think that it's incredibly difficult to think about a life without them.

[@TheAlkhemiaStudio]

That scratch in her elbow looks quite painful ):

[@PeachyAnnaBelle]

One of the most exciting things for me about getting an IUD, besides the obvious, truly was feeling like a cyborg. Copper IUDs like mine have a long history and many many marked improvements over the years, they're now safer than ever and I can't wait for the next advancement. This video was WONDERFUL, thanks for posting!

[@NtcPedroPeterNews]

Loved her. Very smart and clear speeches, perfect!

[@piratet0aster719]

“All things change in a dynamic environment. Your effort to remain what you are is what limits you.” - Puppet Master

[@bagandtag4391]

I loved the video but gender is not a choice! You can't compare it to "cyborg stuff", it's not some decisition you can take to improve yourself. If it was trans people wouldn't exist, and we do. We are not in a playground trying to "be better", we just want to "be us". Kinda nit picky but I couldn't avoid it. It's a very interesting subject and the talk was really interesting.

[@mars1teen]

You're right, but gender expression is a choice. People do get to choose wether to transition or not.

[@Findleyawesome]

yeah transitioning is totally a choice, whether or not your motives behind doing so are not choices

[@bagandtag4391]

Transitioning is a choice much like breathing or eating.

[@Findleyawesome]

+Combinemon no its not? you can survive without transitioning

[@callies8907]

+Riley Findley Is that why half of trans kids who are denied the right to transition kill themselves?

[@vsmash2]

Gonna drop a name here: Frederic Vester. In the end, implants, yoga, whatnot, all changes are based on feedback loops. Because life and therefore humans are based on feedback loops. If you look at the word cybernetik, it literally means to "take control", and what do you take control over (rhetorical question, don't answer that), your own existing feedback loops and functions.

[@sirVlinky]

After having read through many comments im noticing a common trend of distrust of the feminist view. For some reason when she speaks on the topic of women and the LGBT community, it makes people uncomfortable. At no point did she say anything that was untrue or even entirely opinionated. Of course she was forced to generalize a bit, given that this video was only 15 minutes long. With that said, all she did was give her view on the idea of cyborgs and what it meant to her. I really like her ideas about body image and how we as humans might have a bit more control over what our bodies look/feel like and are capable of. (Whether it is for women or not) I could be 6'5" Ripped and be rich, but that wouldn't necessarily mean i have perfect vision or incredible hearing. By way of example im saying that everyone has something in their life that they want to change, be it a major change or not. Body image and the concept of identity are something very important to the human psyche. I believe that the more control we have over our own minds and bodies the healthier we can be as individuals both mentally and physically.

[@Necrikus]

I really enjoy the thought of we humans becoming more willing to admit that our own use of technology on ourselves makes us more than human. I see it as a gradual movement of accepting that humans do not have to just live with what some would consider "natural" in regards to our own qualities and abilities.

[@Ganbalf]

She is oddly focused on race and such in some aspects, I dont see how that is relevant to the context of the video.

[@ColdSiris]

I'm sold on the RFID implant. also with body augmentation and replacement. If I could replace my organs with efficient bio-mechanical variants that would outlast the originals I'd volunteer in a mechanical heartbeat

[@Anonarchist]

does a fursuit make a furry a cyborg?

[@MonkeyPantsFace]

me: "Body hacking? That sounds awesome" me: *sees a guy with a tablet in his forearm* me: "We've come too far.."

[@BogLives]

Yay

[@czu4877]

please let this be top comment

[@QuantumLoopNinja]

Absolutely LOVE your interview format stuff, keep up the great work!

[@YaBoiKeith]

I'm a cyborg, because I'm black. Wat

[@arstgkneio]

Rose's work is awesome and right up my alley. Thanks for introducing me to it! Love the new format as well :)

[@AudreyYun]

gender is not a choice

[@aquadraco20]

Adding a + to bump this comment up higher so more people can see it. I agree with you.

[@TheWordsmythe]

Yeah, I think it was a miss-spoken reference to the performance of gender being subject to choice/volition.

[@AudreyYun]

cortster12 no

[@Arian545]

Expression of it is, which was most likely what she was referring to.

[@BrandonB...]

Wow, what a good episode. Best Idea Channel interview yet.

[@VeggiePun]

she talks to much about Feminists, I came here for cyborgs.

[@VeggiePun]

+Dobsin basically lmao

[@Drudenfusz]

This victim mentality to view herself as something not normal, was also something I didn't liked, but since she didn't followed that up with going full feminist, I think it was fine. Also, maybe that she creates the impression like men wouldn't be into the human aspects of futurism but only in the tech side seems silly, she clearly seems to have never watched Star Trek or read Dune and plenty of other science fiction that focus more on society and social things than jetpacks.

[@JazzyJacksJokeShack]

RULE OF NATURE!!!

[@SunnyTheGentleFox]

Oh yes... the very first season of Star Trek is very social... very social indeed... hohoho. : ^)

[@mitchelldavis482]

Your listening skills really need some work. You're working your own narrative in instead of actually attending to what was said, and its dangerous to do that subconsciously (and just kind of a dick move to do it consciously).

[@Threads_Of_Fate]

I loved that there was a Blade Runner poster in the background.

[@bogdanyer]

6:13 where did you hear that? your women studies course?

[@stickfigvslego]

Yeah that one really felt like a curveball.

[@k.-flynn]

actually its probably bc the tech industry is male dominated

[@GabeDelaSoul]

Nothing is male dominent. Things are just female defficient because they're stupid enough to go to woman studies and not find actual productive courses.

[@k.-flynn]

Gabriel De laSoul so every male dominated industry is only male dominated because every single female graduate that would "normally" go into tech or engineering or mathematics has decided to go into gender studies for absolutely no reason? yeah that sounds like total bullshit. blaming the victim has never worked for erasing oppression and this is no different, because the actual amount of gender studies majors is minuscule compared to the millions of women in stem careers. Frankly if you truly believe such blatantly false rhetoric then thank God that women are rising to fill the gap in intelligence that you've created.

[@GabeDelaSoul]

K. Flynn Please, for the love of my atheist god, learn the meaning of words before you toss them around willy nilly. You don't know what's a victim, and neither you a sexist.

[@docopoper]

There is a subculture of the furry fandom called postfurry if that piques your research interest. It makes for a very interesting case study into posthumanism and how people express that in an extremely countercultural environment.

[@HolySpitball]

This would have been better if she wasn't pushing this feminism/LBGT stuff the whole time

[@theoriginalaks]

I think you might prefer something more like an "ideas which only support my pre-conceived politics channel."

[@HolySpitball]

theoriginalaks point me to it :D

[@theoriginalaks]

+HolySpitball I think you might prefer the social conservatives at Breitbart, I am sure they have a youtube channel by now. You won't ever see a single idea which conflicts with your politics, or many ideas at all.

[@HolySpitball]

theoriginalaks nty not the biggest fan of conservatives

[@theoriginalaks]

+HolySpitball No, you will love them, social conservatives are the OG and still supreme feminist haters. They have always been terrified of any academia and intellectualism. If you want major groups which uncritically hate feminism you are basically stuck with them. They invented every attack in the book and they are still used today.

[@3dpprofessor]

For some reason this conversation just isn't gripping me, and I don't know why. Like, I feel like I *should* be more engaged, more fascinated, and more worried about this, but it just doesn't matter to me. Not to say I don't think this will be relevant to me personally, I'm just not worried about it out really care to postulate about it. And for some reason *that* worries me.

[@XnecromungerX]

i wonder if she enjoys H. R. Giger since he is basically the artistic symbol of the bio mechanical symbiosis

[@cacodaemonia]

This was incredibly fascinating! Great episode. :)

[@MonsterUpTheStairs]

I am explicitly transhumanist and pro-singularity. Any combination of technology with humans to further enhance our abilities is extremely valuable. I personally look forward to any form of memory extension, in which I could, for example, instantly remember a whole book, possibly through a USB-Drive or anything of the kind.

[@greatakai845]

What I think is interesting, is how the water, being a place which forces most people with any sort of external technology to shed it. From glasses, to a watch, to a mechanical limb. Which sucks for me, because my ideal self has spiked hair and the water takes that away from me.

[@AllTheArtsy]

There's this line from Iron Man II which I'm sure so many people are familiar with, when Tony Stark says that his Iron Man suit, and more to the point his arc reactor, is prosthetic. Obviously it's a different thing because his "prosthesis" is weaponized and could be militarized. But in that same sense, if you're asking about how cyborgs can be seen as a symbol of progress, I would refer you to Hugh Herr and his kind of bionics that is organic, that lets people run, climb, dance, that allows them to be "more human" again, when they've lost parts of their original, "normal" body. Same goes for R&D of exoskeletons for elderly people, to ensure that they can live fuller lives even as they age, and not be bound to pain and idleness. Because that sort of technology-- being able to move, navigate, with grace and dignity and, you know, actual mobility-- is worth so much more than surface-level, almost needless gadgetry, like opening a door with your palm, or whatever. I would just also love to add that I'm glad you're getting more into topics that not only intersect art, technology and philosophy now, but also intersections of gender, race, identity and a specific expansion into issues of women and poc. Loved this episode!

[@TiihoPlays]

That was actually one of my favorite parts about when I had shoulder surgery when I had an AC ligament tear was that I could now refer to myself, in some small stupid way, as a cyborg since I now will have a metal plate in my shoulder for the duration of my life.

[@NicholasYanes]

I always thought an interesting are of 'Body Hacking' was professional bodybuilding. In addition to these individuals using synthetic substances - something briefly discussed in the documentaries "Generation Iron" and "Bigger, Stronger, Faster" - the sport of body building forces them to develop eating and workout returns that allows them to exceed normal muscle growth.

[@dasein47]

I think the answer to this question is definitely yes - if by "we" it is meant those that exist in the industrial power centers of the globe (mostly the US and Western Europe, and other Westernized countries like Japan). The farther away one is from this, the less likely they are a cyborg (according to Katherine Hayles, but her seminal book "How We Became Posthuman" was published in 1999, so it is also a likely outdated thought). As Hayles points out very clearly in her book (mentioned in the interview), more than a bio-technological synergy, posthumanism is a subject position we inhabit, i.e. "The defining characteristic [of the posthuman] involve the construction of subjectivity, not the presence of non-biological components" (pg. 4). As anyone who read the book knows, she then goes on to map out a detailed history of the synergy between cybernetics and US-Sci-Fi literature that work in a very intersting narrative which give rise to the current meaning that eventual embodies cyborg. In this process, the first step of homeostasis/biofeedback loop, which was necessary in the beginning of cybernetic theory, turns out to be something anyone experiences who uses a smart phone or computer. It is an external system which are our systems (body and mind/subjectivity) interacts with, and in so doing we conform our own external environment include it, and it in terms reacts and adapts to our utilization of it. This alone makes us cyborgs. If we consider Amber Case's definition, articulately very cogently in her Ted Talk and the Ted Radio Hour segment about her Ted Talk, we would also have to answer in the affirmative. In it, she uses the example of our cell phones, and how by having one and using it, we simultaneously inhabit two times and spaces, one where our bodies exist in T and S and another in this other spatio-temporal realm that can be anywhere - shared with others anywhere on the planet or possibly inside the inner-workings a server sitting in somewhere (if you are, say, playing a networked game). This is weird, and it is causing some of us to walk around aimlessly, literally changing the spatial coordinates of our bodies (I almost get run into at least once a week on campus by students who are interacting with their phones and walking at the same time). And, well, who does not have a smart phone? While they have yet to reach Africa and China en masse, they are starting to really span the globe. So, according to Amber, even those who are far away from the the industrial centers of the globe but still have and use a smart phone are then cyborgs. Anyway, great interview. Keep up the good work!

[@ClockworkGriffin]

Your comment about technology being a thing men do reminds me of one of my Archaeology classes where we were talking about the oldest "man made" calendar and how it tracked the lunar cycle. And my professor said, "it tracks the lunar cycle. Lunar cycle. sounds more like the oldest calendar is 'woman' made not 'man' made." That being said, Archaeology is literally the study of human technology and no one I work with defines it as "things men do."

[@CocoandZee]

I was pretty on board with everything except " gender is a choice"..... Otherwise great video!

[@mars1teen]

I'd say she meant gender expression.

[@CocoandZee]

Martin Coloma I'd agree that gender EXPRESSION is a personal choice, yes.

[@DeathorGloryNow]

I had never thought of an IUD as a "body-hack" but it completely makes sense. I think the marketing of them intentionally is geared more as "just another medication" to avoid fear from people who are less comfortable with the idea of body-hacking and body-modding. The pacemaker is different in that it keeps people alive and probably needs less marketing compared to an IUD which is optional and has less invasive alternatives.

[@samuelshoesmith]

Ok. This was hot. As a sociology graduate, looking at the interaction between humans and technology really floats my boat.

[@tomrivlin7278]

Great episode! Your interviewee was really cool, and I think you asked great questions/had a good interview style! More of these every now and then please!

[@karfra]

Thanx for wearing that T-Shirt.... In the 80s I owned a keyboard repair shop and I did warranty service for Bob Moog and his company here in Germany. So, while trying to watch the video, I was comletely distracted by looking at it and thinking about those old times... Er... what did you say ? :-)) Karsten

[@loxjvh]

This makes me want a Black Mirror episode even more. Maybe around when the new series drops?

[@properpuns10]

My friend has been identifying as a cyborg for some time, as she has had a number of her bones reinforced with metal rods as a byproduct of surgeries to correct scoliosis and other conditions, and I think that the discussion of minorities as subversive is a really important conversation to have. I've found that so much of my favorite technology has been adapted from assistive tech, and I think that it's possible to say that not only are women and poc and disabled people are often cyborgs, but that through that, they/we're helping to create that future of tech through the integrations of these technologies

[@greatakai845]

Here's my thing, I have: spiked hair, ear rings, a watch and always like to wear sunglasses. If I don't have them all, I feel less like "myself" and I think this episode finally gave me a bit of an understanding why.

[@mooxim]

I like how Rose tried to be diplomatic about the idea of the association of white men and cyborgs when she mentioned people being of a similar background without saying "white men" again. Then immediately confirmed what I thought she meant by saying "other people like women and people of colour". She never sounds like she resents white men, it seems like she understands that they just overlook things. As a white male, I guess my idea of the future has been fairly limited. It's difficult to imagine what a truly diverse human community will do.

[@KBradKicker13]

This is so cool! Can't wait to hear more from Rose. Thanks for the introduction Mike!

[@Phase4TheProphet]

I don't know how I feel about "cyborg as identity" - it might just be that the popular conception of cyborgs is too deeply ingrained in me. For the identity angle I actually quite like the term "body hacker" - hackers are known for making alterations that allow devices to perform in ways that were never intended to gain some sort of advantage. I think that gets at the crux of the movement, and that image allows that distinction between the person who implants an RFID chip in their hand and someone who just wants a pair of glasses. In a way it sort of conveys the intent behind the culture, and that's where I think the real difference in identity lies.

[@Sheuto]

Are terminators really cyborgs? I mean they fit the definition because they have organic tissue, but this tissue is just a disguise, they can and actually normally work without it (in the future they are from most of them are not disguised). They feel more like androids that were disguised using human tissue than cyborgs.

[@ray0chama]

I agree. A cyborg is a human who has been modified with technology is some way. Since Terminators are not human, they cannot be cyborgs. They are androids as you said. Good catch. Didn't think of that.

[@Sheuto]

LoremHand I think the cyborg could also be a machine that was somehow enhanced with biological parts (???), but in case of terminator it's more like wearing human tissue as clothes than having them enhance the machine.

[@ray0chama]

+iNezumi Perhaps. But I would say it merits its own term, as a cyborg is both defined and though of as some kind of technologically modified human. What might an android modified with human or biological parts be called? A Biodroid? Bioborg? I think bionic man has been used. This also raises ethical questions. Of course, an artificially created human gets rights. So then is a "biodroid" more deserving of human rights than a standard android? Is it question of intelligence and not biology? So many questions. \(@_@)/

[@MagicSwordKing]

This is a very interesting subject. I'm an ex-cyborg myself, though I am open to becoming one again for various reasons. In 2012 I was diagnosed with cancer, as such I was given an implant in my chest to aid the delivery of chemotherapy drugs. The reasoning is that the toxic components of the drugs erode the veins in the extremities, so to limit the damage they install a port catheter, sort of an express lane into your heart. Fortunately I was able to beat cancer with the help of my cyborg implant, and was able have it removed in mid-2013. I define a cyborg as anyone whose life is in any way aided by technology that exists within their body, be it for medical purposes like mine, cosmetic purposes likes body hackers, or personal health purposes like an IUD. So, to me a cyborg isn't precisely aspirational, though it can be, for sure. I think it is more inspirational, as it is perhaps the best example of human ingenuity working in symbiosis with human biology.